Your top 5 middleweights hardest hitters?

[Bad_Intentions]

????????

[robert ungurean]

Fitzsimmons
Moore
Hart
Hearns
McClelland
Benn

[Club Fighter]

Julian Jackson
Gerald McClellan
Marvin Hagler
Mike McCallum
Nigel Benn

in no particular order

[Senya13]

Gerald McClellan
Stanley Ketchell
Julian Jackson
Roy Jones Jr
Bob Fitzsimmons

[Bad_Intentions]

fitzsimmons
roy jones
james toney
julian jackson
marvin hagler

no order.

[Doppleganger]

Marvin Hagler may be possibly the greatest MW of all time, but he is not even close to being in the top 5 hardest MW punchers. I think Marv himself would freely admit this. Hagler was a solid puncher but never had top level one-punch power. Therefore my list would be as follows, in no particular order:

Eugene Hart
Thomas Hearns
Julian Jackson
Gerald McClellan
Bob Fitzsimmons

Honourable mentions: Stanley Ketchel, Nigel Benn, RJJ, John Mugabi

[dmt]

Eugene Hart
Gerald McClellan
Nigel Benn
Julian Jackson
Rodrigo Valdez


Hm for Fitz and Ketchel who not much footage is available to see. Jones, Hearns and MCcALLUM deserve a mention too

[enquirer]

In order,
Hearns.
Jackson.
Benn.
G-man.
Marvin hagler.(when he wanted to bomb that is.)

I havent seen hart,valdes,fitzimmons and a few others so i cant rate them accurately.

[CzarKyle]

Jackson
Mugabi
Hearns

But that's just off the top of my head.

[Duodenum]

1) Stan Ketchel. The Michigan Assassin's knockdown of Jack Johnson may have been the hardest punch ever recorded on film by a boxer under the middleweight limit. Johnson failed to regain his feet on his first attempt to beat the count, and was so groggy that when he coldcocked Ketchel with his retaliatory right uppercut, he toppled forward over his 159 pound challenger.

2) Bob Fitzsimmons. Although over the middleweight limit when he won the HW Title with a single bodyshot, we can safely extrapolate that he wouldn't have been any weaker under 160.

3) Mickey Walker. For 15 rounds, a past prime Walker battered about a peak Jack Sharkey, en route to a controversial 15 round draw, where he won 11 rounds on one judge's scorecard. At his peak conditioned weight of 158, he was capable of posting quick kayos over top 10 heavyweights.

4) Ray Robinson. Although at his most dangerous as a welterweight, he rates here on the strength of a single legendary left hook, one we are all well-acquainted with.

5) Eugene "Cyclone" Hart. Antuofermo and Hagler agreed that Cyclone's hook was the hardest punch these veteran champions had ever been hit by. That's good enough for me.

I am not sufficiently acquainted with Julian Jackson, or any other boxers who came of age after the elimination of the 15 round distance eliminated my interest in contemporary boxing, so I haven't the qualifications to comment on them, aside from knowing of their pervasive reputations.

Naturally, I could revise this extensively over time, but this is what I have to offer immediately.

[Bad_Intentions]

. Hagler was a solid puncher but never had top level one-punch power.
buth he still hit hard tho.

the punch he landed to hearns was almost a 1 punch KO but hearns got up.

[brooklyn1550]

Stanley Ketchel
Gerald McClellan
Bob Fitzsimmons
Cyclone Hart
Florentino Fernandez

[Doppleganger]

buth he still hit hard tho.

the punch he landed to hearns was almost a 1 punch KO but hearns got up.
Oh yeah, Hagler was a hard MW hitter no doubt but I don't he's near the top 5.

[janitor]

In chronological order-

Bob Fitzsimmons
Stanley Ketchel
Mickey Walker
Julian Jackson
Gerald McClellan

Honourable mention Nigel Benn, Jeff Lacey

[Mantequilla]

Antwun Echols deserves a mention despite being a pretty awful fighter

[laxpdx]

I have no problem with any of these lists. Of course, my honorable mention for hardest hitter goes to Tony Ayala. Pipino Cuevas and Bobby Czyz can definitely attest.

Hagler vs. Ayala would've been one of the greatest MW tussles of all-time.

[enquirer]

Just being a hard hitter is not the way to beat a prime marvin.....

[laxpdx]

Ayala's immense talent was matched only by his rage.

Win, lose, or draw, I could definitely see Tony holding his own against Marvin.

[NickHudson]

I dont agree with this. Haglers power was not at all extraordinary. There are a number of performances in his career when he has fighters looking on the brink of stoppage, and then it will take several more rounds of punishment before he is finally able to put them away.

Taking clean shots from Hagler is not good for your health, he could really fuck someone up.

[Duodenum]

I dont agree with this. Haglers power was not at all extraordinary. There are a number of performances in his career when he has fighters looking on the brink of stoppage, and then it will take several more rounds of punishment before he is finally able to put them away.I also don't believe Marv's hardest punches were extraordinarily powerful. It was his incredible ability to take a punch that allowed him to outslug far harder punchers than himself.

However, one of Hagler's Sunday punches was his right jab, and when a low risk jab is as deadly as Hagler's was, that fighter is certainly going to leave the impression of being a lethal puncher, especially with Marv's physical appearance. (Let's face it, did Tony Ayala look at all lethal before the bell even rang?) On a P4P basis, who had a harder jab than Hagler?

[JohnThomas1]

McCallum has no right being in the list and Hagler should be outside it as well. Many bigger hitters. McCallum especially.

[quintonjacksonfan]

Hagler had some viscious knockouts
Obel,Hamani,Lee, Hearns, and Monroe

[Duodenum]

Hagler had some viscious knockouts
Obel,Hamani,Lee, Hearns, and MonroeOh, don't get me wrong, Marv had some spectacularly vicious knockouts. (I love the way Obel fell in sections from Marv's leaping right hook in their rematch. Shades of Patterson/Johansson II!) But Antuofermo rated Marv behind Cyclone Hart and Bennie Brisco in punching power (an assessment Hagler might agree with). Hearns also claimed before SRL/Hagler, that Ray was actually the harder puncher of the two, although nobody could take a punch like Marv. While Hagler had documented one punch knockout power in both hands, there's a question of whether or not he was even in the top five middleweights in punching power during the course of his own career, let alone all-time.

If Hagler had been able to bomb out SRL and Duran as Hearns did Duran, then it would be easier to make a case for Hagler belonging on a top five list.

[Raggamuffin]

[quote=Duodenum]1) Stan Ketchel. The Michigan Assassin's knockdown of Jack Johnson may have been the hardest punch ever recorded on film by a boxer under the middleweight limit. Johnson failed to regain his feet on his first attempt to beat the count, and was so groggy that when he coldcocked Ketchel with his retaliatory right uppercut, he toppled forward over his 159 pound challenger.

Ketchel should be in but i don't think that after he was floored, Johnson was that groggy. He was so angry cause Ketchel disregarded a deal to take the fight to the limit that he threw everything he had in that punch nad therefore loosing his balance

[Raggamuffin]

I have no problem with any of these lists. Of course, my honorable mention for hardest hitter goes to Tony Ayala. Pipino Cuevas and Bobby Czyz can definitely attest.

Hagler vs. Ayala would've been one of the greatest MW tussles of all-time.

Hagler would make Ayala look like a caraccident victim after this bout.
Easy money for Marvellous with Ayala way too small

[heerko koois]

1 - John Mugabi
2- Julian Jackson
3- Thomas Hearns
4- Gerald Mcclellan
5- Nigel Benn

[Raggamuffin]

1 - John Mugabi
2- Julian Jackson
3- Thomas Hearns
4- Gerald Mcclellan
5- Nigel Benn

Excellent choice:happy
But not in that order

The Hawk
The Hitman
G-Man
Mugabi
Dark Destroyer

[heerko koois]

:good Excellent choice:happy
But not in that order

The Hawk
The Hitman
G-Man
Mugabi
Dark Destroyer

[Senya13]

What has Thomas Hearns done at 160 or 168 pounds to deserve high ranking among hardest hitters? Stopped Shuler and Roldan? Huh?

[Senya13]

Hearns' fights

at 160:
Ernie Singletary - decision
Jeff McCracken - ko
Murray Sutherland - decision
Marvin Hagler - lost
James Shuler - ko
Doug DeWitt - decision
Juan Domingo Roldan - ko
Iran Barkley - lost

at 168:
James Kinchen - decision
Sugar Ray Leonard - draw
Michael Olajide - decision

Only 3 KO wins out of 11 fights.

[Raggamuffin]

Even Hagler had trouble with Roldan but i agree that his ko percentage dropped after hitting MW, but still the dark cloud of that right hand loomed over every opponent

[Senya13]

He was a hard hitter at these weights, no doubt, but ranking him in Top 5 is totally unjustified.

[Holmes' Jab]

Julian Jackson
Stanley Ketchel
Eugene Hart
Tommy Hearns
Gerald McClellan
Bob Fitzsimmons

HM: Nigel Benn, John Mugabi

[Raggamuffin]

I see i do not stand alone in choosing the Hitman

[Duodenum]

[quote=Duodenum]1) Stan Ketchel. The Michigan Assassin's knockdown of Jack Johnson may have been the hardest punch ever recorded on film by a boxer under the middleweight limit. Johnson failed to regain his feet on his first attempt to beat the count, and was so groggy that when he coldcocked Ketchel with his retaliatory right uppercut, he toppled forward over his 159 pound challenger.

Ketchel should be in but i don't think that after he was floored, Johnson was that groggy. He was so angry cause Ketchel disregarded a deal to take the fight to the limit that he threw everything he had in that punch nad therefore loosing his balanceRaggamuffin, that may be correct. However, having viewed the match in it's entirely many moons ago, it looked to me as though Ketchel had been going all out, while Johnson was indeed carrying Ketchel (as he did many of his challengers). Earlier in that match, Jack dropped Stan, and could have probably finished him off then and there. Instead, Johnson immediately clinched Ketchel into a waltz when Stan regained his footing.

The story that there was a pre-arrangement between the two may be apocryphal. I think Johnson was A) Furious that he'd let himself get nailed like that, and B) Realized that he'd better stop playing games with a very dangerous puncher.

Regardless of the true facts behind Ketchel's knockdown, the fact remains that it was an all-time massive detonation of a blow's impact, one we are fortunate to have recorded on film.

[Senya13]

What if the people who have chosen Hearns in Top 5 were asked to justify his placement ahead of Fitzsimmons, Ketchel, Robinson, Graziano, Fernandez, Valdez, Brisco, Hart, Mugabi, Jackson, McClellan, Jones, Echols? What makes anyone think Hearns hit harder than these fighters, based on what?

[Minotauro]

In any order:
Archie Moore
Stanley Ketchel
Bob Fitzsimmons
Gerald McClellan
Nigel Benn

Julian Jackson and Rodrigo Valdez also deserve a mention.

[Raggamuffin]

What if the people who have chosen Hearns in Top 5 were asked to justify his placement ahead of Fitzsimmons, Ketchel, Robinson, Graziano, Fernandez, Valdez, Brisco, Hart, Mugabi, Jackson, McClellan, Jones, Echols? What makes anyone think Hearns hit harder than these fighters, based on what?

Based on his ko percentage against MW it doesn't seem justified.
Some off the names you mention are not even big punchers.
Fighters like Graziano, Echols and Robinson relied more on massive punchoutput instead off big time hitting.
So why include them and not the Hitman ?

[Senya13]

They have the stats to back it up. Nigel Benn also wasn't truly a KO artist, but he has the stats also. Hearns has neither.

[Raggamuffin]

They have the stats to back it up. Nigel Benn also wasn't truly a KO artist, but he has the stats also. Hearns has neither.

What stats you have that makes these fighters such big punchers against class opponents ?

[Senya13]

Shavers doesn't have KO wins over class opponents either.

[Raggamuffin]

Shavers doesn't have KO wins over class opponents either.

True but his former adversaries all claimed he was a very big puncher, if not the hardest. For the love of God i can't imagine somebody saying that about Echols or Graziano

[JohnThomas1]

Hearns
Jackson
McClellan
Valdez
SRR

[mcvey]

????????
Champions only,Fitz
Ketchel
Robinson
Jackson
McCllelan

[Doppleganger]

What has Thomas Hearns done at 160 or 168 pounds to deserve high ranking among hardest hitters? Stopped Shuler and Roldan? Huh?
Stopped both with full 10 counts. Hurt the durable Roldan with every single right hand and left hook he landed with. Compare that with Hagler who was hard pressed to hurt Roldan and took over double the length of time to stop him. Was one of the very few men to visibly hurt Hagler in the ring and this alone sneaks him into my top 5. Tommy didn't fight that much at 160lb and so I guess you could say that Tommy is my wildcard pick. Another reason is that he knocked out Lightheavies and Cruiserweights which demonstrated how potent his power really was. Also consider too that for most of the fights that Hearns fought at MW he was past his prime. Finally Tommy was more than just a right hand bomber - his left hook to the chin and downstairs were KO punches too.

[Senya13]

Hurting Roldan is nothing special in my book, because Roldan was never anything special. Hagler not being able to hurt Roldan quickly tells nothing, as Hagler was never a KO artist and was basically a power puncher who was breaking his opponents gradually down.
Hearns hurting Hagler was only because Hagler chose to do it rather wild and so he walked into a punch he wasn't expecting, it can happen to anyone. Hearns couldn't repeat it anymore, this example, again, tells us nothing special about Hearns' punching power.
At 175 and cruiserweight Hearns was unable to knock out a single worthy opponent, when he knocked somebody down, they were either bums or mediocrities. Andrew Maynard being the best of the bunch, and Hearns knocked him out with illegal punch to the back of the head, he was not able to put him down with legal punches despite landing several hard clean ones.

There's absolutely no reason to place Hearns in Top 5 at 160 lbs or any higher weight.

[Doppleganger]

Hurting Roldan is nothing special in my book, because Roldan was never anything special. Hagler not being able to hurt Roldan quickly tells nothing, as Hagler was never a KO artist and was basically a power puncher who was breaking his opponents gradually down.
Roldan was not a great fighter but he was durable, which fits in with the topic of this thread.

Hearns hurting Hagler was only because Hagler chose to do it rather wild and so he walked into a punch he wasn't expecting, it can happen to anyone. Hearns couldn't repeat it anymore, this example, again, tells us nothing special about Hearns' punching power.
Some people also have Hagler in their top 5 MW hardest punchers, which I disagree with though. Perhaps Hearns was unable to repeat it because he had broken his right hand? And since when is not hurting Marvin Hagler an indication that you can't punch very hard? :p The fact is that he did hurt Marv, which precious few fighters have ever done, if at all.

At 175 and cruiserweight Hearns was unable to knock out a single worthy opponent, when he knocked somebody down, they were either bums or mediocrities. Andrew Maynard being the best of the bunch, and Hearns knocked him out with illegal punch to the back of the head, he was not able to put him down with legal punches despite landing several hard clean ones.
Dennis Andries wasn't a great fighter by any means, but he was very durable. Before he fought Hearns Andries had only ever been stopped by a full heavyweight in Dave Pearce. Hearns put him on his arse 6 times.

Hearns was way past his best when he fought at Cruiserweight. Time to give the guy a break perhaps?

There's absolutely no reason to place Hearns in Top 5 at 160 lbs or any higher weight.
I disagree. Whilst I fully understand why many don't have in their top 5 I can also understand it if they do.

[enquirer]

Julian jackson never really knocked out a great fighter,but he definately was a great puncher indeeed. Hearns may not have the stats at middleweight to back up his power,but his stats at light middle were similiar,ly misleading,he was taken the distance by minchillo and benitez in world title bouts.His knockout percentage at light midle as compared to his welter exploits was lower.......This is where an objective and scientific study will look beyond the statistics,statistics and damn lies.....Hearns at 154 was the greatest single shot puncher of them all,with only jackson and robinson able to contest this....Yet his KO ratio at light middle was much lower than that of mugabi or jackson,yet nobody would dispute he stands with these guys at light middle.....Hearns had many injuries ( hand troubles.) which held back his power in some of his bouts above welter,lets not also forget the quality of opponents he fought as he went up in weight,jackson and mugabi never koed a great fighter....
Finally,you have to LOOK at hearns fights to see his extraordinary power,the kayos over roldan,duran,cuevas,andries (at lt heavy.) and schuler,not to mention the effect his punches had on hagler,leonard ,hill and many others......Hearns evan at 160 LOOKED a harder puncher than jackson and his stoppage of duran (even though at 154.) alone shows this....How many FULL MIDDLEWEIGHTS in history does one envision doing what tommy did to duran with one punch?

[Vantage_West]

I am not sufficiently acquainted with Julian Jackson, or any other boxers who came of age after the elimination of the 15 round distance eliminated my interest in contemporary boxing, so I haven't the qualifications to comment on them, aside from knowing of their pervasive reputations.

Naturally, I could revise this extensively over time, but this is what I have to offer immediately.well julian jackson did fight in 15 rounds era but only in it's last stages and he is the p4p hardest puncher of all time when poeple talk about crazy power jackson had it he broke arms ribs jaws crushed cheekbones . some say the hardest hitter of all time was shavers but i take jackson any day.

[Vantage_West]

1.julian jackson
2.gerald mcllelen
3.tommy hearns
4.nigel benn
5.ray robinson

[Senya13]

Roldan was not a great fighter but he was durable, which fits in with the topic of this thread.
Who tested his durability? 28(14KO)-14-12 Juan Carlos Bogado? Some people don't know where to stop when praising the mediocrities of the past. Roldan gives pretty much zero credibility to Hearns' punching power at 160lb, because he was a journeyman at best. When Hearns fought middleweights or super-middleweights who were actually good, he couldn't knock them out.

Some people also have Hagler in their top 5 MW hardest punchers, which I disagree with though.
It's hard not to disagree with nonsence like that.

Perhaps Hearns was unable to repeat it because he had broken his right hand? And since when is not hurting Marvin Hagler an indication that you can't punch very hard?
Well had he hurt Hagler on several occasions (to prove he could do it not only when landing an unexpected punch), then he could raise up in the rankings. But since he hasn't, any mention of Hagler fight is meaningless when reasoning Hearns' placement.

The fact is that he did hurt Marv, which precious few fighters have ever done, if at all.
Briscoe and Mugabi hurt Hagler, and not once. With Briscoe he was too afraid to stay in close, whereas with Hearns he just kept going after Thomas, not caring for being hit.

Dennis Andries wasn't a great fighter by any means, but he was very durable. Before he fought Hearns Andries had only ever been stopped by a full heavyweight in Dave Pearce.
Another meaningless claim. Just because a fighter had only been stopped once prior to meeting somebody, that doesn't mean each such guy is a terminator Oliver McCall or Librado Andrade-like. Pearce was a cruiserweight by today's standards, and a poor fighter. Bringing a stoppage loss to such guy only takes away any credibility about Andries, not adding it.

Hearns was way past his best when he fought at Cruiserweight. Time to give the guy a break perhaps?
I'll give him a break, when people stop praising Hearns like a Top 5 or even Top 10 puncher at any weight from 160 and up. Because such claims are nonsence. He has done nothing to get ranked so high.

[JohnThomas1]

Roldan gives pretty much zero credibility to Hearns' punching power at 160lb, because he was a journeyman at best.

Come on Senya, enough of the shyte. Roldan was a tough durable guy who took a fine punch. Lets be honest, he's better than most (close to all) of the no names you somehow find credibility for when talking up Roy achievements.

[Doppleganger]

Who tested his durability? 28(14KO)-14-12 Juan Carlos Bogado? Some people don't know where to stop when praising the mediocrities of the past. Roldan gives pretty much zero credibility to Hearns' punching power at 160lb, because he was a journeyman at best. When Hearns fought middleweights or super-middleweights who were actually good, he couldn't knock them out.
Before Hearns Roldan had only legitamately been stopped twice in 9 years. That isn't durable for you?! The other point is that Hearns didn't fight any tomato cans at 160 to pad his record with KOs. He fought good fighters, like Roldan, despite what you say. If Hearns had started his career at 160 I'm certain he would have been fed a diet of stiffs (as every prospect is) to bring him along and his KO% at 160lbs would be much higher as a result.

Well had he hurt Hagler on several occasions (to prove he could do it not only when landing an unexpected punch), then he could raise up in the rankings. But since he hasn't, any mention of Hagler fight is meaningless when reasoning Hearns' placement.
Sorry but this paragraph is meaningless nonsense.

Briscoe and Mugabi hurt Hagler, and not once. With Briscoe he was too afraid to stay in close, whereas with Hearns he just kept going after Thomas, not caring for being hit.
He kept going after Hearns because that was his declared strategy before the fight, to take it to Tommy as he knew he could never outbox him. Any comparision between this fight and the Briscoe and Mugabi fights is meaningless. Moreover, I don't recall Mugabi stunning Hagler and bending his leg through 90 degrees. Finally, who exactly did Mugabi knock out before facing Hagler? Hardly a who's who of durable contenders. (see my point above regarding stiffs)

Another meaningless claim. Just because a fighter had only been stopped once prior to meeting somebody, that doesn't mean each such guy is a terminator Oliver McCall or Librado Andrade-like. Pearce was a cruiserweight by today's standards, and a poor fighter. Bringing a stoppage loss to such guy only takes away any credibility about Andries, not adding it.
It does kinda indicate at durability when you have numerous fights and aren't stopped, does it not? Either that or you are a defensive wizard like Pep or Whitaker. Trust me, Andries was not a defensive wizard. :p

I'll give him a break, when people stop praising Hearns like a Top 5 or even Top 10 puncher at any weight from 160 and up. Because such claims are nonsence. He has done nothing to get ranked so high.
Not higher than 160 no, but at 160 and below he certainly has.

[Senya13]

How many fights with ranked/good opponents did Roldan have?

Good opponents? Singletary, Sutherland, DeWitt, Kinchen, Olajide. Not something to be too proud about.

If Hagler had no respect for Hearns' punching power (he was less aggressive in many more fights), why should I have? Against Mugabi Hagler thought more about defense, than against Hearns. Against Leonard, he was more hesitant than against Hearns.

Literally thousands of fighters don't get stopped while they are fighting not particularly great opposition. That doesn't mean all of them are particularly durable or they are defensive wizards.

[JohnThomas1]

If Hagler had no respect for Hearns' punching power (he was less aggressive in many more fights), why should I have? Against Mugabi Hagler thought more about defense, than against Hearns. Against Leonard, he was more hesitant than against Hearns.


It's well known that Hagler's strategy vs Hearns was to get him in a slugfest as he didn't favour his chances of outbxoing Tommy. By contrast Hagler's best strategy vs Mugabi was boxing, John was average from long range, certainly outboxable for Marvin. To even mention him being more hesitant against Leonard than Hearns based on power is absolutely absurd.

[Senya13]

Do you mind naming other examples where a fighter chose to get into a slugfest with huge puncher, instead of trying to box him?

Hagler being hesitant against Leonard is a fact. Same as him having more respect to Mugabi's power than to Hearns'.

[JohnThomas1]

Do you mind naming other examples where a fighter chose to get into a slugfest with huge puncher, instead of trying to box him?

Hagler being hesitant against Leonard is a fact. Same as him having more respect to Mugabi's power than to Hearns'.

So you know Hagler's tactics and thoughts better than he himself right?

So you are going to tell us Hagler was more cautious with Leonard than Hearns because he respected Ray's power more? Lord help us lol.

[Senya13]

You have an explanation why Hagler was very cautious/reluctant vs Leonard?

[Doppleganger]

You have an explanation why Hagler was very cautious/reluctant vs Leonard? Well it certainly wasn't because he was wary of Ray's power. :lol:

Hagler was usually a slow starter and the 1987 version had slowed down a lot. He couldn't get off quickly enough against Leonard, who to be fair was using sound tactics. The Hearns fight was one of the few times that Hagler initiated a brawl. He had to, as Tommy was widely expected to stick and move. He wasn't going to outbox the fighter who outboxed Sugar Ray Leonard and Wilfredo Benitez now, was he? :p

[Senya13]

Hagler was such slow starter, that 12 rounds was not enough for him to start up?

[JohnThomas1]

You have an explanation why Hagler was very cautious/reluctant vs Leonard?

Mind games ;)

[Senya13]

First SRL was manipulated vs Duran, now Hagler was manipulated vs SRL. Right. Let's find lame excuses for every single bad fight.

[JohnThomas1]

First SRL was manipulated vs Duran, now Hagler was manipulated vs SRL. Right. Let's find lame excuses for every single bad fight.

Well come out and telll us Hagler was more fearful of SRL's power than Hearns, twisted humour is always welcome in this corner. Better still, go and read Hagler's memoirs of the fight and his early tactics. Read how he didn't come out chasing SRL because he figured that was what Leonard expected.

Concerning Duran, Leonard was mastefully manipulated into fighting the fight Duran was best at. Calling Leonard's wife a whore and various other things led Leonard right into the Duran web. Kudo's to Duran.

[Senya13]

Perhaps because Leonard with his handspeed and angles, was less predictable in his offense, and thus his punches were harder to deal with than predictable punches of Hearns?

[JohnThomas1]

Perhaps because Leonard with his handspeed and angles, was less predictable in his offense, and thus his punches were harder to deal with than predictable punches of Hearns?

Hey, if that's what floats your boat go for ya life. The rest of the world knows Hearns and Leonard aren't even comparable for power or KO potential. Leonard's lesser predictability and all the rest of the jargon sure showed in their comparative battles vs Duran, not to mention others. I also remember you telling me Hearn's right hand really wasn't that good. I mean, how hte heck can i debate vs this sort of stuff.

[Senya13]

Facts are facts. Hagler was more cautions for all 12 rounds of his fight with Leonard, than he was for Hearns.
When did I say that? Give exact quote.

[JohnThomas1]

Facts are facts. Hagler was more cautions for all 12 rounds of his fight with Leonard, than he was for Hearns.
When did I say that? Give exact quote.

Oh come out of the closet. Beating around the bush isn't going to get you anywhere.

[Senya13]

So you have no quote. Made it up?

[JohnThomas1]

So you have no quote. Made it up?

You are impossible, and then some. No balls at all, just to be smart.