Most athletic boxer ever [Archive] - East Side Boxing Forum

Seamus

07-01-2007, 03:01 PM

RJJ looked like a super stud, though I saw him play b-ball and he was nothing special in the quickness department on the hardwood. Likewise, Ali embarrassed himself in the Superstars competition 100 yard dash, running a time that was decent for an 8th grade girl. That said, they both obviously possessed the particular athleticism (god, i hate that word) to excel to the hightest degree in the ring. I think what I'm saying is "athetic" is not a term that exists in a vacuum; it has to be applied to a discipline. Otherwise, just grab the best decathlete and extoll his athletic ability. Those freaks high jump 7 feet, put the shot 60, and a quarter mile in 47 seconds. But they would suck in the ring.

Mantequilla

07-01-2007, 03:04 PM

Is Conteh the only boxer to win a superstars competition?.

NickHudson

07-01-2007, 03:14 PM

Interesting points Seamus, I guess by athleticism i was looking for qualities transferable between sports, but you are saying it has to be applied to a discipline.

Not sure I agree. Am sure Daley Thompson had all the athletic gifts (47 400m, 8 metre long jump) to be an excellent boxer, ASSUMING he was tough enough (to get hit in the face and keep going) and could attain the boxing skills.

Those are two big 'ifs' and the answer would likely be 'no' for toughness, but that is not what this thread is about...

RJJ looked like a super stud, though I saw him play b-ball and he was nothing special in the quickness department on the hardwood. Likewise, Ali embarrassed himself in the Superstars competition 100 yard dash, running a time that was decent for an 8th grade girl. That said, they both obviously possessed the particular athleticism (god, i hate that word) to excel to the hightest degree in the ring. I think what I'm saying is "athetic" is not a term that exists in a vacuum; it has to be applied to a discipline. Otherwise, just grab the best decathlete and extoll his athletic ability. Those freaks high jump 7 feet, put the shot 60, and a quarter mile in 47 seconds. But they would suck in the ring.

NickHudson

07-01-2007, 03:16 PM

Hey Seamus,

can you provide a reference, date and time for Ali's poor sprint time. Sounds very interesting.

I would have guessed that an 18 year old Ali at well under 200lb would have gone pretty well over a 100m.

RJJ looked like a super stud, though I saw him play b-ball and he was nothing special in the quickness department on the hardwood. Likewise, Ali embarrassed himself in the Superstars competition 100 yard dash, running a time that was decent for an 8th grade girl. That said, they both obviously possessed the particular athleticism (god, i hate that word) to excel to the hightest degree in the ring. I think what I'm saying is "athetic" is not a term that exists in a vacuum; it has to be applied to a discipline. Otherwise, just grab the best decathlete and extoll his athletic ability. Those freaks high jump 7 feet, put the shot 60, and a quarter mile in 47 seconds. But they would suck in the ring.

Mega Lamps

07-01-2007, 03:24 PM

My vote is for Jim Jeffries.

pryorgatti

07-01-2007, 03:27 PM

Mike Tyson
RJJ

miamite

07-01-2007, 03:38 PM

I have always thought Evander Holyfield was also an extremely atheltic individual. He had very fast hands and excellent reflexes early on in his career.

Holyfield actually beat Carl Lewis in an 800 meter race at a charity event in the early 90's.

texluh

07-01-2007, 03:40 PM

Tyson is actually a good point - although he wasnt built like a typical athlete - but it was all in the training. Maybe it's the sam efor all of them - in the training. I go for Sugar Ray Robinson. On the subject of Daley Thompson, how coud we know he had any punch speed at all? A fast arm for throwing, but does it translate? So hard to know.

I'd love to see the Ali sprint.

hobgoblin

07-01-2007, 03:43 PM

Easy: Muhammad Ali. Second up would be Mike Tyson and then Joe Louis. RJJ isn't as strong or even as big as those guys (yes, big does not mean better, but big AND very good as in the case of Ali is better).

McGrain

07-01-2007, 03:44 PM

P4P i'd say Ali. You know, taking into account what he has to drag about and that. Probably Jeffries deserves a mention where heavies are concerned.

I'd go with RJJ right enough though Dick Tiger deserves a mention. Not for reflexes, just for stamina.

hobgoblin

07-01-2007, 03:47 PM

Holyfield actually beat Carl Lewis in an 800 meter race at a charity event in the early 90's.

It could not have been a "real contest". It was probably just a show, like Muhammad Ali losing to someone. I find this very hard to believe! No way.

I have always thought Evander Holyfield was also an extremely atheltic individual. He had very fast hands and excellent reflexes early on in his career.

I agree with you great post.

Terrible Terry

07-01-2007, 03:52 PM

How about Mr Terry Norris? His speed, power, movement and combonations were insane.

NickHudson

07-01-2007, 03:54 PM

As far as I am aware the Holyfield Lewis 800m race was real, and Holyfield won!

But, dont read too much into this. 800m running is 50% aerobic, 50% anaerobic. Lewis was a pure power athlete (100m and long jump). He was also retired, old and untrained at the time.

Still, as a 1:48 800m man myself would like to know Holyfields time!!

It could not have been a "real contest". It was probably just a show, like Muhammad Ali losing to someone. I find this very hard to believe! No way.

I agree with you great post.

justaboxingfan

07-01-2007, 03:55 PM

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned FLoyd Mayweather Jr. I think he is one of the most gifted athletes ever, especially in the stamina department.

McGrain

07-01-2007, 03:56 PM

As far as I am aware the Holyfield Lewis 800m race was real, and Holyfield won!

Am I alone in expecting a 100% conditioned boxer to beat even a 100% conditioned sprinter over 800m?

McGrain

07-01-2007, 03:57 PM

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned FLoyd Mayweather Jr. I think he is one of the most gifted athletes ever, especially in the stamina department.

I agree with you, though stamina is unproven (is suspect you are right though). I'd include him for his reaction time - which is up there, right up there.

Duodenum

07-01-2007, 03:59 PM

If championship caliber boxers throughout history were to compete in a decathlon or pentathlon type event, Jim Jeffries might well come out on top.

Ali was a great boxer, but he was no kind of all-around athlete.

Ken Norton and Earnie Shavers were very good athletes in school, and to the best of my recollection, Norton acquitted himself very well in the Superstars competition. (I think Floyd Patterson may have also performed respectably in a retired athletes segment, but I could be mistaken about that. It wouldn't be too surprising if he did do well though, as Floyd was about the size of an Olympic class decathlete.

While I'd have to think about it a good deal more, those are the names that occur to me immediately.

BigReg

07-01-2007, 04:03 PM

Am I alone in expecting a 100% conditioned boxer to beat even a 100% conditioned sprinter over 800m?

You should be. I was a sprinter in High School. Even though I would've gotton killed by 800 m runners, people who didn't run track would have had a hard time beating me. Even as a sprinter, we did plenty of drills that built up our endurance. Boxers have plenty of endurance but have no need for the type of speed needed in track , even an 800 m race.

NickHudson

07-01-2007, 04:05 PM

yes, this is an interesting one.

one the one hand, the track sprinters are 'designed for running' and carry less baggage in the upper body and the boxers particularly the heavies are MUCH heavier. On the other, a boxer geared for 12-15 rounds would have much better cardio fitness than a sprinter.

Holyfields performance for a 15 stone man sounds impressive, but we still havent heard the time!

Am I alone in expecting a 100% conditioned boxer to beat even a 100% conditioned sprinter over 800m?

Seamus

07-01-2007, 04:10 PM

How about Mr Terry Norris? His speed, power, movement and combonations were insane.

Terry was also a terrific baseball player and I remember reading he could bench 300lbs.

Regarding the Ali Superstar comp, it was in the mid-70's and is mentioned in the Hauser book. You can respond that a 30-something Ali was over the hill, but I'm a nobody and can still get near 11 seconds in 100 meters pushing 40 years old. If Ali were the great all-encompassing athlete as suggested, he should have beaten 12 seconds for 100 yards.

I also remember reading some very funny anecdotes given by Holyfield regarding Tyson's utter lack of ability on the basketball court. Evander does seem like a special athlete. I would not be suprised to learn he was excelled at other sports.

McGrain

07-01-2007, 04:11 PM

You should be. I was a sprinter in High School. Even though I would've gotton killed by 800 m runners, people who didn't run track would have had a hard time beating me. Even as a sprinter, we did plenty of drills that built up our endurance. Boxers have plenty of endurance but have no need for the type of speed needed in track , even an 800 m race.

No disprespect but sprinting high school and top 1% are very different. I'd argue that the olympic gold medalist over 100m is the most finely tuned athlete on the planet. And they're tuned for explosive and attacking fast twitch fibre action, no?

Seamus

07-01-2007, 04:15 PM

Am I alone in expecting a 100% conditioned boxer to beat even a 100% conditioned sprinter over 800m?

Depends on how big the boxer is, and what kind of road regimen he is doing. A world class 100 meter man can invariably run 400 meters in 46-47 seconds if not faster. If he dogs an 800, he should still be well under 2 mintues, which is a difficult feat for more traditional stick and ball athletes and maybe a little less so for a boxer who runs 5 or 6 miles a day.

While we're at it, I seem to remember Crisanto Espana (who beat Taylor for a welter title) was a near world class marathoner.

NickHudson

07-01-2007, 04:22 PM

I hear you with the elite 100m man rolling a 46/47 400m.

However, in my experience it all goes horribly wrong in the 800m, even with the comparatively ordinary 2 minute benchmark.

Even very good 400m runners blow at 600m and struggle to sub 2 minute.

It comes down to a reliance on anerobics and near 100% fast twitch fibres.

The boxers may not be so one-sided in their physiology as a sprinter. Having said all this, I would pick an elite 100m runner over an elite boxer if forced to bet.

Interesting debate.

Depends on how big the boxer is, and what kind of road regimen he is doing. A world class 100 meter man can invariably run 400 meters in 46-47 seconds if not faster. If he dogs an 800, he should still be well under 2 mintues, which is a difficult feat for more traditional stick and ball athletes and maybe a little less so for a boxer who runs 5 or 6 miles a day.

While we're at it, I seem to remember Crisanto Espana (who beat Taylor for a welter title) was a near world class marathoner.

ryanty22

07-01-2007, 05:49 PM

John Conteh. in a superstars competition in 1974 he proved he was the greatest at least that one time

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

as i read more i found out holyfield didnt do very good in his which was 1984

cross_trainer

07-01-2007, 06:08 PM

McGrain

07-01-2007, 06:12 PM

:lol:

"The Broadsword Championship of Australia".

Don't mess with that guy.

cross_trainer

07-01-2007, 06:15 PM

:lol:

"The Broadsword Championship of Australia".

Don't mess with that guy.

He'd punch you, throw you on the ground, cut you in half with his broadsword, drop a 200 lb. dumbbell on your head, and then walk 200 miles in two days to escape the local police.

McGrain

07-01-2007, 06:18 PM

He'd punch you, throw you on the ground, cut you in half with his broadsword, drop a 200 lb. dumbbell on your head, and then walk 200 miles in two days to escape the local police.

:lol:

Your only chance would be to make friends with him.

But he doesn't look like the type that would make friends easily.

Surely the dumbell would be unnecessary after he chopped you in half?!

cross_trainer

07-01-2007, 06:21 PM

:lol:

Your only chance would be to make friends with him.

But he doesn't look like the type that would make friends easily.
I've read a book he wrote in the 1890's. Seems like a reasonable enough chap, actually. And since he taught many of the top Australian athletes during the 1880's, 90's, and 00's, he was probably a fairly personable guy.

Surely the dumbell would be unnecessary after he chopped you in half?!
Miller assumes that all of his opponents have his own recuperative powers. He is taking no chances.

The Kurgan

07-01-2007, 06:23 PM

Professor William Miller

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Boxing

* Australian champion, London Prize Ring Rules
* Defeated Joe Goss on points in a gloved boxing match

Wrestling

* Greco-Roman wrestling champion of Australia
* Claimed the world Greco-Roman wrestling champion; certainly one of the best in the world
* Drew with American Greco-Roman champion William Muldoon

Gymnastics

* Skilled gymnast and gymnastics teacher

Weightlifting

* Claimed the weightlifting championship of Australia
* Drew with world weightlifting champion Richard A. Pennell.

Fencing

* Won the broadsword championship of Australia

Long Distance Walking

* Claimed the pedestrian championship of Australia, defeating Duncan C. Ross

We have a winner and I have a new avatar.

In terms of gloved-boxing, I'd go with James J. Jefferies. A proven star of track, field and ring, with strongman feats to add.

Did Scotland's own Donald Dinnie ever do any boxing? If so, he'd be a definte contender. Of course, he would be more an athlete that boxed rather than a boxer than excelled at athletics.

McGrain

07-01-2007, 06:25 PM

I've read a book he wrote in the 1890's. Seems like a reasonable enough chap, actually.

I don't beleive it - see if you can think of a viable opponent for him.

cross_trainer

07-01-2007, 06:31 PM

We have a winner and I have a new avatar.

In terms of gloved-boxing, I'd go with James J. Jefferies. A proven star of track, field and ring, with strongman feats to add.

Did Scotland's own Donald Dinnie ever do any boxing? If so, he'd be a definte contender. Of course, he would be more an athlete that boxed rather than a boxer than excelled at athletics.

He didn't box per se, but he did claim to have a fight with world champion Jem Mace after Mace was rude to the troupe of Scottish athletes he was travelling with. The fight was rather brief--Dinnie grabbed him and threw him on the ground before he got a punch off.

There is the suspicion that some of Miller's bouts against high-level opponents--like those of many of his contemporaries--may have been fixed. He was clearly one of the best (top 10) in the world regardless, though.

He had several contests with Donald Dinnie, incidentally--weightlifting and wrestling. Dinnie had the edge in wrestling in anything but the Greco-Roman style, and probably weightlifting as well (Miller supposedly won their lifting contest on "better technique" even though he lifted less weight). In any event, Miller was definitely a phenomenal athlete, and it is fitting to class him a bit behind Dinnie as one of the greatest athletes of the mid-to-late 19th century.

Sam Dixon

07-01-2007, 06:38 PM

It could not have been a "real contest". It was probably just a show, like Muhammad Ali losing to someone. I find this very hard to believe! No way.

I remember watching that race as it happened on television, and I seem to have a distinct memory of Carl Lewis laughing as he came around to finish the last part of the race. But then again, I also remember that Holyfield (who was flying pretty good) was out in front by a clear margin when Carl did start with that though, so it may have possibly been a "can't believe he's going to beat me" type of chuckle in an embarrassment sort of thing.

cross_trainer

07-01-2007, 06:40 PM

I don't beleive it - see if you can think of a viable opponent for him.

In terms of sheer athleticism? Hmmm...

Well, he has Jeffries beaten for sheer versatility (although Jeffries has twenty-odd pounds on him, ironically).

Barclay Allardice might qualify--the best walker, sprinter, weightlifter, amateur boxer, and boxing trainer in England during the very early 19th century. Also noted for walking 1000 miles in 1000 CONSECUTIVE hours--a feat that has rarely been achieved by subsequent generations. However, the talent pool he was up against was not very large.

Conteh is, of course, another choice. The Superstars competition is a fairly good test of all-around athleticism.

Duncan C. Ross may qualify as well--he was one of the top track-and-field men in America (shot, hammer, 56 lb. shot, high jump, broad jump, standing high jump, 100 yards, hammer, 56 lb. weight, standing broad jump), top wrestlers in America, dabbled in fencing, and a collar-and-elbow wrestling champion. He did seem to have dabbled in boxing, but not seriously enough to be included. Miller was probably better anyway.

George Benedict was a gymnastics and track-and-field teacher, as well as the best amateur boxer in the West and the American champion club-swinger (very popular in those days--picture Fred Flintstone sized clubs swung in aesthetically pleasing patterns).

Yep, it looks like Miller wins here.

john garfield

07-01-2007, 06:40 PM

He'd punch you, throw you on the ground, cut you in half with his broadsword, drop a 200 lb. dumbbell on your head, and then walk 200 miles in two days to escape the local police.

Funny stuff, ct.

The Kurgan

07-01-2007, 06:43 PM

He didn't box per se, but he did claim to have a fight with world champion Jem Mace after Mace was rude to the troupe of Scottish athletes he was travelling with. The fight was rather brief--Dinnie grabbed him and threw him on the ground before he got a punch off.

It doesn't surprise me. I'd pick Donald Dinnie to kill any boxer in history in a street fight.

There is the suspicion that some of Miller's bouts against high-level opponents--like those of many of his contemporaries--may have been fixed. He was clearly one of the best (top 10) in the world regardless, though.

It must be remembered that a LOT of boxers could have had fixed fights, from 18th century bareknuckle boxers to Sonny Liston (and even later).

He had several contests with Donald Dinnie, incidentally--weightlifting and wrestling. Dinnie had the edge in wrestling in anything but the Greco-Roman style,

That would make sense. I would imagine that, since the Greco-Roman style has never really caught on here in Scotland, Dinnie would be less experienced. Incidentally, in my opinion, the Greco-Roman wrestling rules make for far less interesting contests than free-style or backhold wresling.

and probably weightlifting as well (Miller supposedly won their lifting contest on "better technique" even though he lifted less weight).

That does sound a bit dodgy, but perhaps they didn't have our modern approach to bad form (ie. disqualify anything that isn't 100% kosher).

I wonder what lifts they used: this would be before the pre-eminence of the barbell snatch/clean and jerk/press triumvirate that would dominate much of Olympic weightlifting's history. I seem to remember that single-armed barbell lifts and bent presses (polar opposites in terms of technique and range of motion) were very popular back then.

In any event, Miller was definitely a phenomenal athlete, and it is fitting to class him a bit behind Dinnie as one of the greatest athletes of the mid-to-late 19th century.

I'm particularly impressed by his sword-fighting skills, a sport that is now pretty much forgotten in the West.

john garfield

07-01-2007, 06:43 PM

In terms of sheer athleticism? Hmmm...

Well, he has Jeffries beaten for sheer versatility (although Jeffries has twenty-odd pounds on him, ironically).

Barclay Allardice might qualify--the best walker, sprinter, weightlifter, amateur boxer, and boxing trainer in England during the very early 19th century. Also noted for walking 1000 miles in 1000 CONSECUTIVE hours--a feat that has rarely been achieved by subsequent generations. However, the talent pool he was up against was not very large.

Conteh is, of course, another choice. The Superstars competition is a fairly good test of all-around athleticism.

Duncan C. Ross may qualify as well--he was one of the top track-and-field men in America (shot, hammer, 56 lb. shot, high jump, broad jump, standing high jump, 100 yards, hammer, 56 lb. weight, standing broad jump), top wrestlers in America, dabbled in fencing, and a collar-and-elbow wrestling champion. He did seem to have dabbled in boxing, but not seriously enough to be included. Miller was probably better anyway.

George Benedict was a gymnastics and track-and-field teacher, as well as the best amateur boxer in the West and the American champion club-swinger (very popular in those days--picture Fred Flintstone sized clubs swung in aesthetically pleasing patterns).

Yep, it looks like Miller wins here.

Those guys are all marvels. Wish I'd heard more about them before. They'd have given Jim Thorpe a run for his money.

Duodenum

07-01-2007, 09:24 PM

Those guys are all marvels. Wish I'd heard more about them before. They'd have given Jim Thorpe a run for his money.Hmmmm.....JG, how do you suppose Thorpe would have done as a boxer? (Heck, he succeeded at every other sport he tried.)

Beebs

07-01-2007, 10:25 PM

It's Jim Jefferies, I think. He was a fast in the 100m, a good Greco Roman wrestler, and could have played anysport he wanted to.

Although just read the posts about William miller, he might take the lead.

john garfield

07-01-2007, 11:33 PM

Hmmmm.....JG, how do you suppose Thorpe would have done as a boxer? (Heck, he succeeded at every other sport he tried.)

One can never be sure of those things, D, but he was the best rough-house tackler in the early pro football league.

brownpimp88

07-01-2007, 11:33 PM

Terry Norris gets my vote.

Beebs

07-02-2007, 02:44 AM

It doesn't surprise me. I'd pick Donald Dinnie to kill any boxer in history in a street fight.

That would make sense. I would imagine that, since the Greco-Roman style has never really caught on here in Scotland, Dinnie would be less experienced. Incidentally, in my opinion, the Greco-Roman wrestling rules make for far less interesting contests than free-style or backhold wresling.

That first statement is a bold one, Donald Dinnie over James Jefferies or Jack Dempsey? The second one is reasonable, I like watching Greco but when its bad, its worse than when freestyle is bad usually.

Smokin'Joe

07-02-2007, 03:14 AM

Holyield and Norton man by far. He beat Carl Lewis in the 100 meter dash. Not to mention his obvious physical attributes. I believe Norton was also a all-state football and track star as well.

young griffo

07-02-2007, 04:03 AM

He's a bit of a prick but Anthony Mundine is a great athlete.
He was a NRL rugby league star,who switched to boxing and won a world title within 3 years.He's also a very good basketballer and really can make a go of whatever sport he puts his mind to.

Holmes' Jab

07-02-2007, 05:38 AM

RJJ
Evander Holyfield

knockout

07-02-2007, 05:44 AM

Roid Jones without question:smoke

Seamus

07-02-2007, 06:23 AM

Holyield and Norton man by far. He beat Carl Lewis in the 100 meter dash.

No he didn't, nor would he ever be within 15 meters of him at the finish of a contested 100 meters.

The Kurgan

07-02-2007, 06:35 AM

That first statement is a bold one, Donald Dinnie over James Jefferies or Jack Dempsey?

Dinnie would be considerably larger and stronger than Dempsey. He would be about as large as Jefferies, much stronger and far more experienced at grappling. Dinnie's grip strength alone was enough to snap a neck like Tyson's.

heerko koois

07-02-2007, 06:55 AM

Vicious Boxer.................

Minotauro

07-02-2007, 08:52 AM

Henry Armstrong the guys cardio was insane, also Meldrick Taylor speed was extremely impressive. I heard Ken Norton was a stand out athelte when he was young.

Duodenum

07-02-2007, 09:00 AM

One can never be sure of those things, D, but he was the best rough-house tackler in the early pro football league.Not to mention that when Eisenhower, playing for West Point, tried to tackle Thorpe, Ike wound up so badly injured that he had to abandon football. (At least Ike had a decent military and political career to fall back on!)

john garfield

07-02-2007, 09:12 AM

Not to mention that when Eisenhower, playing for West Point, tried to tackle Thorpe, Ike wound up so badly injured that he had to abandon football. (At least Ike had a decent military and political career to fall back on!)

Interesting nugget, D...Didn't know that. My dad played high school basketball against Lou Gehrig. Said he was far-'n'-away the best guy on the court.

UpWithEvil

07-02-2007, 09:18 AM

In terms of elite boxers, I'd have to give the nod to Jeffries, who, as has been noted in this thread, was a remarkable sprinter, skilled wrestler, and possessed raw strength and stamina enough to astound even his rugged contemporaries.

However, if we expand the criteria to include less-accomplished boxers, I don't see how you could go wrong picking Danny Hodge ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), arguably the greatest amateur wrestler in history.

OLD FOGEY

07-02-2007, 09:45 AM

Interesting nugget, D...Didn't know that. My dad played high school basketball against Lou Gehrig. Said he was far-'n'-away the best guy on the court.

Eisenhower's first love was football. He was considered an
All-American candidate before hurting his knee.

OLD FOGEY

07-02-2007, 09:50 AM

Henry Armstrong the guys cardio was insane, also Meldrick Taylor speed was extremely impressive. I heard Ken Norton was a stand out athelte when he was young.

I remember Norton competing in the Superstars competition. He was
not impressive and did not do well.

OLD FOGEY

07-02-2007, 09:53 AM

Nobody has mentioned Sugar Ray Robinson, but major league scouts
considered him the best shortstop prospect they had ever seen.
Baseball was still segregated, so Robinson became a boxer. If he
came along ten years later, Robinson probably would have been a
major league baseball player.

cross_trainer

07-02-2007, 10:10 AM

Dinnie would be considerably larger and stronger than Dempsey. He would be about as large as Jefferies, much stronger and far more experienced at grappling. Dinnie's grip strength alone was enough to snap a neck like Tyson's.

True, but if Jeffries can hang with Roeber, I'd give him a very good chance to beat Dinnie. Some of the old-time bareknucklers would probably be able to do so as well--they did have experience fighting wrestlers, and boxing skills that were well suited to keeping a wrestler on the outside. And the aforementioned Miller might as well, if he was allowed to punch rather than just wrestle.

If Dinnie brought his 16 lb. hammer into the fight, all bets would be off, though.

john garfield

07-02-2007, 10:18 AM

cross_trainer

07-02-2007, 10:25 AM

Sullivan claimed a 10.5 second 100 yard dash (over grass, presumably) and was good enough to participate in professional baseball for a bit. He wasn't pretty bad as professional players go, mind you, but he was good enough to compete at the professional level.

Also competed under two very different sets of boxing rules, and managed to throw American wrestling champion William Muldoon in a wrestling/exhibition match. (He was subsequently thrown to the ground and knocked silly).

cross_trainer

07-02-2007, 10:36 AM

John Jackson was a top-notch sprinter and jumper, bareknuckle heavyweight champion, physique model (strange as it sounds, but then again, Arnold is also considered an athlete, so..), and extremely strong. He lifted over 1000 lbs. of solid iron from the ground, which was considered quite a feat in those days, and was known for being able to write his name on a wall with 70-90 lbs. of weights attached to his finger.

Sizzle

07-02-2007, 10:51 AM

Has Anthony Mundine been mentioned yet?

Could've been a legend at 5/8 in Rugby League, a sport you'll know requires a lot of athletic attributes - Not a bad boxer either, with barely any serious background is ranked 3rd in the world at his respective weight-class, and getting better by the fight. More importantly perhaps, he looks very natural and fluid in the ring, and his reflexes are almost on par with Roy Jones Jnr's, which isn't something you can teach.

Genuine all-rounder.

Don't know if that'd qualify him as one of the "best-ever" athletes admittedly, but I think he warrants a mention as a very gifted athlete.

Titan1

07-02-2007, 11:06 AM

One of these guys:

Ken Norton
Tim Witherspoon
Greg Page
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Dokes.

Titan1

07-02-2007, 11:06 AM

One of these guys:

Ken Norton
Tim Witherspoon
Greg Page
Pinklon Thomas
Michael Dokes.

The Kurgan

07-02-2007, 11:35 AM

True, but if Jeffries can hang with Roeber, I'd give him a very good chance to beat Dinnie. Some of the old-time bareknucklers would probably be able to do so as well--they did have experience fighting wrestlers, and boxing skills that were well suited to keeping a wrestler on the outside. And the aforementioned Miller might as well, if he was allowed to punch rather than just wrestle.

I'd give Miller and Jefferies a chance, certainly. Both are deficient in Scottish blood, though.

[quote="cross_trainer"]
If Dinnie brought his 16 lb. hammer into the fight, all bets would be off, though.

Or one of the Dinnie Stones. Either would seriously hurt if Dinnie threw one on top of you. In fact, it'd certainly kill you.

cross_trainer

07-02-2007, 12:36 PM

I'd give Miller and Jefferies a chance, certainly. Both are deficient in Scottish blood, though.

On a moderately related note, I remember reading an English track and field manual from the 1890's where the author tries to downplay Irish T&F accomplishments. It goes something like this:

"Sure, the Irish are better at long jumping, and high jumping, and hammer throwing, and weight throwing, and shot putting...but other than these few paltry events, English athletes are better".

Or one of the Dinnie Stones. Either would seriously hurt if Dinnie threw one on top of you. In fact, it'd certainly kill you.

Or his caber (swung in one hand like a club, naturally).

Duodenum

07-02-2007, 04:15 PM

Interesting nugget, D...Didn't know that. My dad played high school basketball against Lou Gehrig. Said he was far-'n'-away the best guy on the court.This would hardly be surprising, given the premium on hand-eye coordination that is used to identify elite athletic talent early. Beyond superb reflexes, sufficient size is required for competing in certain sports, and in boxing, the ability to take a punch also comes into play.

It wouldn't be in the least bit surprising to me that Robinson was also a fine baseball player, if indeed he was. In more recent decades, Boom-Boom Mancini was a fine high school running back, but he never developed the necessary size to compete beyond the secondary school level.

It also shouldn't be surprising that many boxers have also been fine musicians and dancers, with the premium placed on rhythym and timing in both disciplines.

Skipping rope and speed bag work are wonderful for improving reflex and reaction times, certainly qualities which could be readily applied towards other interests and challenges. Bo Diddly was a former boxer who parlayed the sense of rhythym he developed through his boxing background into groundbreaking music. Michael Flatley's best known for his background as an Irish Step Dancer, but his underpinnings as a Golden Gloves winning boxer is also widely known.

That championship athletes would have a passion for golf would hardly be surprising, as it allows for the continual exercise and monitoring of their hand-eye co-ordination as well.

The Kurgan

07-02-2007, 05:21 PM

On a moderately related note, I remember reading an English track and field manual from the 1890's where the author tries to downplay Irish T&F accomplishments. It goes something like this:

"Sure, the Irish are better at long jumping, and high jumping, and hammer throwing, and weight throwing, and shot putting...but other than these few paltry events, English athletes are better".

:lol:

There are few things more ridiculous than national chauvanism, especially in sport.

Or his caber (swung in one hand like a club, naturally).

I've actually had the honour of handling the Dinnie stones. I managed to lock out with a deadlift on the lighter one (which is only a little more than 300 lbs) but the larger one has as of right now eluded me. I don't think I'll ever manage Dinnie's feats with them.

The only contest, indeed, that I could possibly compete with Donald Dinnie would be in elocution. Even then, he'd probably just lift everyone in the room with his well-executed hard constants.

Smokin'Joe

07-02-2007, 09:58 PM

No he didn't, nor would he ever be within 15 meters of him at the finish of a contested 100 meters.

Sorry it was 800 meters but still that is impressive. How are you so sure that this didn't happen anyway?

Vantage_West

07-02-2007, 10:57 PM

roy jones by a country mile he won using his athletic abilty most others use defence he was all reflexes and speed using only the athletic skills no other boxer used them like he did.

you could make an arguement that other boxers were more athletic but roy jones used them more in his style of boxing thatn any other

Seamus

07-02-2007, 11:11 PM

you could make an arguement that other boxers were more athletic but roy jones used them more in his style of boxing thatn any other

well put! athletic ability can only really be measured in the scope of an athletic event.

Smokin' Joe- Carl Lewis- even at 40 years old- would not be a "sort of fast" guy. He would be a guy who could blow away anyone in any sport not called Track and Field. Guys off the street (in terms of track) just don't run 9.9's or 10.2's or even 10.4's for that matter. 800 meters? Well, if he were fat and happy and doing a charity event, then he probably would not care what happened.

Smokin'Joe

07-03-2007, 08:01 AM

well put! athletic ability can only really be measured in the scope of an athletic event.

Smokin' Joe- Carl Lewis- even at 40 years old- would not be a "sort of fast" guy. He would be a guy who could blow away anyone in any sport not called Track and Field. Guys off the street (in terms of track) just don't run 9.9's or 10.2's or even 10.4's for that matter. 800 meters? Well, if he were fat and happy and doing a charity event, then he probably would not care what happened.

yeah but this isn't a guy off the street is it. HOly is a very well conditioned athlete. and i doubt that Lewis wasnn't trying or however you make it sound. Where exactly are you going with this anyway?

Seamus

07-03-2007, 10:17 AM

Where exactly are you going with this anyway?

just trying to temper a little hyperbole.

i am in agreement on holy being a hell of an athlete.

Titan1

07-19-2007, 06:43 PM

just trying to temper a little hyperbole.

i am in agreement on holy being a hell of an athlete.

He is also quite the fornicator, but that's another story.

Fab2333

07-19-2007, 06:43 PM

Roy Jones Jr

cross_trainer

07-19-2007, 07:40 PM

Hmmm...

There's also Paul Anderson, though his boxing career was unsuccessful.

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Sonny Carson

07-19-2007, 08:30 PM

Roy Jones Jr, Ali, Ken Norton, Holyfield, Terry Norris(benhced 310 pounds at 154 pounds)

Fab2333

07-19-2007, 08:41 PM

Roy Jones Jr, Ali, Ken Norton, Holyfield, Terry Norris(benhced 310 pounds at 154 pounds)

damn I aint kno that, wow he musta been a strong ass man. Wow thats incredible

OLD FOGEY

07-19-2007, 10:27 PM

Hmmm...

There's also Paul Anderson, though his boxing career was unsuccessful.

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I found an old article by Jesse Abramson which mentions boxers who were successful as athletes in other sports:

1. James J Corbett--top baseball player who might have made major leagues if he did not pursue boxing.

2. Canada Lee--was a top jockey before becoming a rated fighter-first love was acting, though.

3. Jack Torrance--All-American gridiron football player at LSU, later played for the NFL champion Chicago Bears--Also held the world record in the shotput. Boxed a bit in the 1930's and was knocked out by Abe Simon. Torrance was 6' 5" and 260 lbs.

4. Steve Hamas--All-American gridiron football player in Penn State, later played in the NFL-most successful top football player in boxing, rising to #1 contender with wins over Schmeling and Loughran.

5. Art Shires--first baseman for the Chicago White Sox, had relatively unsuccessful boxing career in late 20's and early 30's.

6. Harry Jaffra--former bantamweight and featherweight champion, was also an excellent golfer.