An honest assessment of Wlad vs. the ATGs results in conclusions we don't like.

[Slothrop]

He matches up very well against a lot of them.

[Rumsfeld]

He matches up very well against a lot of them.

Probably, but he'd also be very vulnerable against many of them, too.

Wlad's the kind of guy that could put on a tremendous display against a great fighter one night and get floored by a mediocre fighter the next.

[Slothrop]

Probably, but he'd also be very vulnerable against many of them, too.

Wlad's the kind of guy that could put on a tremendous display against a great fighter one night and get floored by a mediocre fighter the next.

I'd be more inclined to buy that a few years ago. He's looking like a machine right now and very consistent. I don't think a mediocre fighter stands a prayer at this point in time.

[Rumsfeld]

I'd be more inclined to buy that a few years ago. He's looking like a machine right now and very consistent. I don't think a mediocre fighter stands a prayer at this point in time.

Maybe....his survival skills have certainly improved under Manny.

I'd still be worried if he ever stepped in the ring with that golfer dude, though. That left hand was ALL WRONG for Wlad.

:smoke

[RonnieHornschuh]

an emotionally stabile wlad gives everybody problems. even if there might be some chin issues. an iron chinned wlad would be almost unbeatable...

[joe33]

He matches up very well against a lot of them.

Totaly agree with you there mate,im a big wlad fan to be honest,and i really dont think people realise just how big and strong and hard the guy hits,to be honest he did piss me of in the past,those losses were not to great,but he has come back in superb style.

I also know being big and strong is not everything and yes his chin at times is very suspect,but this is boxing,some talk on here as if going down after being hit makes you crap,which is just being silly,its how you react to it after,have you the heart to get back up and get stuck in.

I really think on his day,he could beat every man in the all time top 10 heavyweights.Im not being silly either,the chances are he would fair bad against some for sure,but he is just so powerful,i can see him giving hell to any man that ever laced a glove and stepped between the posts.

I think we all have a tendency to look back at the good old days,the older you get,the more we view just 10 or 15 years back as great times,and yet they were probaly not as good as we really think,but thats human nature i guess.

[FlatNose]

Wlad , with all of his shortcomings , is nonetheless an awesome physical presence with speed, skill, and power. In match ups with ATG's his lack of durability would hurt his chances for victory.
But considering that "styles make fights", Wlad would probably have his best chance against the greatest of them all, Ali. Just the way Wlad looks awesome and unbeatable against Bryd, Wlad would look good against Ali because of the lack of a huge power punch on Muhammads part.A fifteen round fight would be in Ali's favor, but over twelve wlads chances would increase.With his height, reach, power and speed Wlad may have troubled Ali greatly.
But at the same time, many of Ali's victims would obliterate Wlad . George Foreman would have murdered Wlad and so would Joe Frazier and Sonny Liston. What may surprise some fans is that Wlad probably wouldn't do so well against contenders such as Jerry Quarry who could take a punch, go the distance, and sock really well himself.George Chuvalo would eventually catch Wlad as well.But against anyone who can't hit that hard, Wlad would be very dangerous.

[Vanboxingfan]

Wlad to me is a funny character. At his best he maybe unbeatable and even give Lewis a run for his money. But for me it's not his chin that's a problem, although that's part of the equation, rather he tends to freeze up and panick if someone actually fights back. Admittedly, most don't get the opportunity to do so, but those that do, seem to cause him problems. Another shortcoming I see in him, is the doesn't seem to have a complete selections of punches and occassionally lacks fluidity. For example when's the last time you saw him through an upper cut? Don't misunderstand, I certainly see him doing well in an h2h basis against the ATG's, certainly top 10, but there are fighters in this elite group who might be able to expose those shortcomings. And this isn't a knock on Wlad, because every fighter, even ATG's have some shortcomings. For example, Ali, never punched to the body, went straight back and had really in inside fighting skills. Lewis was obviously too complacent at times, and he didn't have the best chin.

[ralphc]

I'd be more inclined to buy that a few years ago. He's looking like a machine right now and very consistent. I don't think a mediocre fighter stands a prayer at this point in time.


Some people think Ibragimov is a mediocre fighter. If that is true then we will see if Klitschko really is a "machine." I think there is a good possibility that Ibragimov won't just stand there and get hit like the bums Klitschko has been fighting lately. Klitschko doesn't have a good record against opponents who move and fight back.

[Marnoff]

Yep, definitely has a shot against anyone. I think Mike Tyson would take his head off, though....

Edit: A prime Tyson, obviously not now.

[ralphc]

Yep, definitely has a shot against anyone. I think Mike Tyson would take his head off, though....

Edit: A prime Tyson, obviously not now.


Probably would, Klitschko doesn't like oponents who fight back.

[Haye]

If he had his brothers chin, some might say he would be pretty unbeatable, but he hasn't. But his chin is no the only the problem, its the way he panics when he gets hit. He would fold under the pressure of any legitimate ATG heavyweight. He has never fought anything like an elite, prime heavyweight, guys like Lewis, Tyson and Bowe would murder Wlad. He may be every bit as strong, powerful and skilled as any of these guys if not more so, but he panics when hit, and his chin is terrible. Many fighters have all the tools but for whatever reason, be it chin, heart, desire, will get beat by all the true elite fighters thay face. Take Golota for example.

I am not hating on Wlad, he has looked great recently, but what is his best win? Peter? His resume is pathetic, sure there aint any good names out there, its not his fault, but throw in getting KOed by Purrity, Sanders AND Brewster, think logically guys, how in the fuck can you give him a chance against the likes of Lewis, Tyson, Ali, Frazier and Holyfield. These guys would blow him out in the early rounds, if he cannot take pressure from the likes of Sanders, then shit, how could he last a round against a prime Tyson?

If he had a chin, and did not panic when someone actually fought back against him, he matches up well against anyone. The sad fact is, he doesn't.

[compukiller]

No ATG would lose to Corrie Sanders.

[Jose FM]

I'd be more inclined to buy that a few years ago. He's looking like a machine right now and very consistent. I don't think a mediocre fighter stands a prayer at this point in time.
I think if theres anytime to praise Manny Stewart (since the Jermain Taylor fiasco) its with Wlad. Manny really did put the finishing touches on Wlad, thought him to work behind his jab, and show that right only when necessary and thus conserving energy, and not leaving himself open to counters. While all that sounds easy to change, being a world champion and letting someone come in and help you change your previously successful style is also a praise of Wlad. If he keeps it up, which he looks like he will, hell be an ATG, and then i think the comparisons will be more appropriate.

[brooklyn1550]

Very true...when you look at Wladimir's resume, it's one of a very good champion, but one who doesn't qualify for all time great status. When you actually watch him fight, he looks like an all time great methodically doing his thing. His height, reach, technical skills, potent jab, and concussive power make him a not only the best heavyweight today by far, but also a threat to anybody in the history of boxing.

[Punisher33]

As many poster already mentioned, Wlad has a strong tendency to freeze up and panic when a fighter hits him with a decent punch, even with Manny Wlad had panic attacks against Brewster in 04 and Peter in 05. I think Wlad is very strong Physically, but mentally I have my doubts.

Wlads clinching and strong jab has kept him from danger early on, leaving most fighters too beat up to compose a attack later on in the fight. I think a good pressure fighter with a great chin and a good punch can beat Wlad, will that type of a fighter come around some time soon I dont know.

[Jose FM]

As many poster already mentioned, Wlad has a strong tendency to freeze up and panic when a fighter hits him with a decent punch, even with Manny Wlad had panic attacks against Brewster in 04 and Peter in 05. I think Wlad is very strong Physically, but mentally I have my doubts.

Wlads clinching and strong jab has kept from danger early on, leaving most fighters too beat up to compose a attack later on in the fight. I think a good pressure fighter with a great chin and a good punch can beat Wlad, will that type of a fighter come around time soon I dont know.
The problem that type of fighter will have is penetrating thru Wlad's Jab or left hook (ala Austin), or even worse his right hand. After the Peter fight, he came out victorious when many people had doubts...Since he has streamed rolled his competition rarely even losing a round to Byrd, Brock, Austin & Brewster, all top contenders although not the best of comp, but nonetheless has looked excellent.

[2smart4u]

As many poster already mentioned, Wlad has a strong tendency to freeze up and panic when a fighter hits him with a decent punch, even with Manny Wlad had panic attacks against Brewster in 04 and Peter in 05. I think Wlad is very strong Physically, but mentally I have my doubts.

Wlads clinching and strong jab has kept from danger early on, leaving most fighters too beat up to compose a attack later on in the fight. I think a good pressure fighter with a great chin and a good punch can beat Wlad, will that type of a fighter come around time soon I dont know.:yep I recall a fighter named JOE who fit that discription beating ALI ! And JOE only needed his average chin ! Come on man I make make a case like this for any champ in history ! but fact is VLADS combination of boxing ability and POWER is one of the best ever ! :deal And your to smart to fall for the panic attack in the BREW fight bullshit ! That fight stank !:smoke

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

An all time great wouldn't have hung on for dear life against Sam Peter in 2005, some refs would have probaly DQ'D him for excessive grabbing and holding...
Ross Purity, Corrie Sanders journeyman fighter's KO'D him, and a good but not great fighter in Lamon Brewester beat the hell out of him in 2004, what else can i say??:bart
Wlad dosen't have the stamina, and his chin is very shaky, Ali would have tortured him, Lennox lewis, and an 88-89 Tyson would have made hamburger out of him.
A prime 73 Foreman would have hurt him bad..
I like Wlad but he's very vulnerable, and seems to lack the mental toughness of his older brother..

[mykolakozak]

No ATG would lose to Corrie Sanders.

Shit happens

[2smart4u]

An all time great wouldn't have hung on for dear life against Sam Peter in 2005, some refs would have probaly DQ'D him for excessive grabbing and holding...
Ross Purity, Corrie Sanders journeyman fighter's KO'D him, and a good but not great fighter in Lamon Brewester beat the hell out of him in 2004, what else can i say??:bart
Wlad dosen't have the stamina, and his chin is very shaky, Ali would have tortured him, Lennox lewis, and an 88-89 Tyson would have made hamburger out of him.
A prime 73 Foreman would have hurt him bad..
I like Wlad but he's very vulnerable, and seems to lack the mental toughness of his older brother..:lol: So apparently you havent seen much boxing ! Every fighter has had fights where they get gassed ! It doesnt happen when in top shape normally and it doesnt happen to VLAD at his best ! And every fighter in history with any skill has used clinching at one time or another ! And they all ( except for the ROCK ) have been beaton by people they shouldnt have lost to ! Your comments about what LL ali and MIKE would have done to him are also rediculous but I wont get into that !:deal

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

:lol: So apparently you havent seen much boxing ! Every fighter has had fights where they get gassed ! It doesnt happen when in top shape normally and it doesnt happen to VLAD at his best ! And every fighter in history with any skill has used clinching at one time or another ! And they all ( except for the ROCK ) have been beaton by people they shouldnt have lost to ! Your comments about what LL ali and MIKE would have done to him are also rediculous but I wont get into that !:deal
Wlad was in A-1 shape, "his best" when he fought Peter in 05 just 2 short years ago, and looked like he was more in a mood to slow dance than fight:lol: his ass was deposited on the canvas 3 times in the process:deal if you seriously think Wlad would have beaten Ali or Lewis in their prime you don't know shit about boxing, Vitaly was tougher than Wlad and LL sliced him up like a Thanksgiving turkey...

[2smart4u]

Wlad was in A-1 shape, "his best" when he fought Peter in 05 just 2 short years ago, and looked like he was more in a mood to slow dance than fight:lol: his ass was deposited on the canvas 3 times in the process:deal if you seriously think Wlad would have beaten Ali or Lewis in their prime you don't know shit about boxing, Vitaly was tougher than Wlad and LL sliced him up like a Thanksgiving turkey...:lol: You really havent seen much boxing have you ! You should take a look at ALI struggling with some crusierweights and lightheavweights in the process ! Oh and pay attention to his constent pulling down on his opponents heads and his lack of power ! And for the record did you notice by any chance how good VLADS stamina was against PETER ! Your rant is rediculous !:deal

[Chunk]

its hard to evaluate todays heavyweights compared to the ATG'S of the past considering the mediocre fighters they face everytime they get in the ring!

[Slothrop]

No ATG would lose to Corrie Sanders.

No All Time Great would lose to Rahman. Oh, wait....

[thesandman]

Corrie's punches would have taken anyone down mate.

People seem to forget that boxers can do this thing; it's called 'improve'.

Are you saying Wlad improved, or Corrie Sanders improved?

because not many boxers improve by becoming semi-retired and turning 37.

If Wlad, than that's fair enough, as there's no doubt that he's improved IMO.

However, against Sam Peter, there was still evidence that anybody that punches back and creates pressure, can really rattle Wlad.

[compukiller]

No All Time Great would lose to Rahman. Oh, wait....

But Rahman KO'ed Sanders. WALD ran from Rahman because he knows what would happen if he ever got him in the ring.....























:smoke

[drvooh]

Maybe....his survival skills have certainly improved under Manny.

I'd still be worried if he ever stepped in the ring with that golfer dude, though. That left hand was ALL WRONG for Wlad.

:smoke It seems that Wlad is most vunerable against he Frazier/yson type of presure guys...Even as good as Holmes was, per say..Wlad would feel more comfortable against him and fare better than an agressive fighter, even if the pessure fighter is not as good as Holmes

[Slothrop]

But Rahman KO'ed Sanders. WALD ran from Rahman because he knows what would happen if he ever got him in the ring.....


Thanks for the lulz. Been a long day. Needed that.

[Punisher33]

The problem that type of fighter will have is penetrating thru Wlad's Jab or left hook (ala Austin), or even worse his right hand. After the Peter fight, he came out victorious when many people had doubts...Since he has streamed rolled his competition rarely even losing a round to Byrd, Brock, Austin & Brewster, all top contenders although not the best of comp, but nonetheless has looked excellent. As you stated yourself in your post, Austin wasnt the best competition, he fucking froze when Wlad hit him with the first decent shot of the fight. Remember after the fight, Wlads saying this was not the oppenent I wanted, he was a mandatory. In so many words Wlad was saying, this guys shit but I have to fight him to keep the title, that was one of the few times I respected Wlad for what he had to say.

Wlad is at the top of his game, but I still believe he is one punch away from losing and being at the bottom again after his lose against Brewster in 04. I dont see many fighters having a good chance of beating Wlad, but if Povetkin or Chagaev gets the chance to face him, I think it might be interesting and also competitive IMO.

[2smart4u]

But Rahman KO'ed Sanders. WALD ran from Rahman because he knows what would happen if he ever got him in the ring.....























:smoke wrong brother but here is something to think about anyway ! the out of shape SANDERS did much better against ROCK then the out of shape LL !:hey

[Lance_Uppercut]

wrong brother but here is something to think about anyway ! the out of shape SANDERS did much better against ROCK then the out of shape LL !:hey
Sanders weighed the same against Rahman as he did against Wlad. Nice try 2hit4brains.:D

[Mendoza]

Totaly agree with you there mate,im a big wlad fan to be honest,and i really dont think people realise just how big and strong and hard the guy hits,to be honest he did piss me of in the past,those losses were not to great,but he has come back in superb style.

I also know being big and strong is not everything and yes his chin at times is very suspect,but this is boxing,some talk on here as if going down after being hit makes you crap,which is just being silly,its how you react to it after,have you the heart to get back up and get stuck in.

I really think on his day,he could beat every man in the all time top 10 heavyweights.Im not being silly either,the chances are he would fair bad against some for sure,but he is just so powerful,i can see him giving hell to any man that ever laced a glove and stepped between the posts.

I think we all have a tendency to look back at the good old days,the older you get,the more we view just 10 or 15 years back as great times,and yet they were probaly not as good as we really think,but thats human nature i guess.

I think opinions among the conservative old time boxing fans are changing their minds a bit about Wlad. Remember, it took Lennox Lewis many years to get the respect he deserved.

[Dekkers]

Wlad hasn't really beaten any fighter in his comeback he wouldn't have beaten when he hammered Byrd the first time, with the possible exception of Peter, but that's debatable, perhaps the younger Wlad could've knocked him out.

Like somebody already alluded to, he has his strengths and weaknesses, he'll match up well with some fighters, poorly with others, his current reign is more a commentary on the current state of heavyweight boxing than anything.

[PATSYS]

Lewis (around 1997) vs Wlad of today would have been a titanic fight. Everybody is ensured of a KO ending.

[Sister Sledge]

It seems that Wlad is most vunerable against he Frazier/yson type of presure guys...Even as good as Holmes was, per say..Wlad would feel more comfortable against him and fare better than an agressive fighter, even if the pessure fighter is not as good as Holmes

Holmes would have boxed the shit out of vlad and tko'd him by the 11th round.

[RonnieHornschuh]

Holmes would have boxed the shit out of vlad and tko'd him by the 11th round.
nobody would outbox wlad, hasn't happened yet, probably never will. holmes has one of the best jabs in history but so does wlad, but holmes is 3-4 inches shorter and wlad has much more power. to those boxing romantics who think frazier and liston (!) would stand a chance: both were 6'0 and around 212, they were powerful hws then - now they would be quite smallish with average power. wlad would probably steamroll frazier like foreman did. i definitely give him a chance against mid 70's ali, foreman (remember he lost to jimmy young?). tyson, lewis, holyfield would be much tougher, i'd favor those three guys against him, but wlad isn't chanceless.

[Dekkers]

Lewis (around 1997) vs Wlad of today would have been a titanic fight. Everybody is ensured of a KO ending.

Strongly disagree, Lewis would win this fight quite easily in the clinches, too strong for Wlad to tie up completely, and whilst Wlad has no inside game, Lewis is a solid defensive infighter. This is the sort of thing I'm talking about when referring to Wlads' weaknesses, the current quality of the division lets people overlook these flaws.

[Punisher33]

LISTON?? AVERAGE POWER?? FRAIZER?? AVERAGE POWER?? DAMN MAN WHATEVER IT IS YOUR SMOKING GIVE ME SOME BECAUSE IT MUST FUUUUUUCK YOU UP!!!! Size only matters so much, a guy 180 could hit harder than a guy 350, its called being able to put your body and speed into punches. If being big made you automatically hit harder wouldnt Valuev be able to hit harder than say David Tua or even Micheal moorer? Marciano would still be considered a big puncher even in todays standards at 5'10 185 or Liston at 6'0 210. I think many posters have never been in the ring before and think just because someones bigger means he could punch harder, which is totally false.

[Malph]

nobody would outbox wlad, hasn't happened yet, probably never will. holmes has one of the best jabs in history but so does wlad, but holmes is 3-4 inches shorter and wlad has much more power. to those boxing romantics who think frazier and liston (!) would stand a chance: both were 6'0 and around 212, they were powerful hws then - now they would be quite smallish with average power. wlad would probably steamroll frazier like foreman did. i definitely give him a chance against mid 70's ali, foreman (remember he lost to jimmy young?). tyson, lewis, holyfield would be much tougher, i'd favor those three guys against him, but wlad isn't chanceless.

You are a man of wisdom. I agree with you on this stuff.

[RonnieHornschuh]

Size only matters so much, a guy 180 could hit harder than a guy 350, its called being able to put your body and speed into punches. If being big made you automatically hit harder wouldnt Valuev be able to hit harder than say David Tua or even Micheal moorer? Marciano would still be considered a big puncher even in todays standards at 5'10 185 or Liston at 6'0 210. I think many posters have never been in the ring before and think just because someones bigger means he could punch harder, which is totally false.

valuev doesn't punch as hard because he is too slow and doesn't put all of his weight behind his punches. brewster, peter, tua, wlad, vitali, mccline, virchis all probably punch harder than liston or frazier. if you have one guy with 185 and another one with 245 with a similar good technique the latter surely punches harder.

[Punisher33]

valuev doesn't punch as hard because he is too slow and doesn't put all of his weight behind his punches. brewster, peter, tua, wlad, vitali, mccline, virchis all probably punch harder than liston or frazier. if you have one guy with 185 and another one with 245 with a similar good technique the latter surely punches harder. I think guys like Shavers and Liston would be heavy hitters today, weight only helps you very little after 180-190 pounds. Till this day many believe the hardest punch every thrown was by Marciano, who is 5'10 185.

I remember Tyson saying that Julian Jackson hits harder than most heavyweights he faced, at the time Jackson was fighting at 154 at the most 160. This was during the late 80s when Tyson was fighting for HBO, that he made the comment.

[RonnieHornschuh]

McCline???? Goddam your ignornant when it comes to the power department.
yes, mccline has some decent power if he really pulls it out of the hat. he knocked down some people that haven't been down before so there's got to be something there. to those who believe that julian jackson punches as hard as let's say tua or wlad: that was just trash talk from tyson, if heavy punchers like tua or wlad would fight a superwelter they would break their opponents arms, ribs and leave them with a permanent brain damage. it's simple physics: what does more damage - getting hit by a vw golf or by a hummer?

[brownshell]

Ali would knock Vlad back to eastern Europe! Br real here. Ali would have Vlad chasing and counter him with speed that would make Vlad's head spin. Please stop sucking Vlad's privates.

[RUSKULL]

No All Time Great would lose to Rahman. Oh, wait....

:rofl My point exactly, and Lewis went on to be ranked in any serious top ten all time HW list.

No all time great would lose to McCall either....................:yep

Head to head Lewis or Wlad are a serious challenge to any HW in history.

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

Wlad's chin reminds me alot of Tommy Morrisons. Against a Prime Tyson, he gets his ass handed to him on a silver platter. Ali dices his face up. Larry Holmes out jabs him to a UD. Foreman knocks him back into his mothers ass. Joe Fraizer out hustles and out works him to a late TKO. Liston rapes im and makes him scream like a bitch. There we have it. Oh yea, Lewis and Holyfield both make him look stupid.That pretty much sums it up:good i concur on everything you posted:hat Wlad is a good Heavyweight but not in the class of a young Tyson, or a prime Lewis or Holmes, or Foreman, his chin is to weak, and has so-so stamina and let's face it how can anyone who saw Wlad hold on for dear life and get knocked to the canvas 3 times against Peter 2 years ago be considered an ATG?? some refs would have DQ'D him for holding and hugging so much jeez..