Face facts here people.... Calzaghe's record is no better than B-HOP's..

[RAMPAGE0017]

Hopkins' opposition..

Felix Trinidad - Held the WBA MW title. Often simplified to just being a " blown-up WW ", yet people seem to forget how he annihilated WBA middleweight champion William Joppy and gave him his only career KO. And people ALSO seem to forget how much of a destructive force Trinidad was at the time. So save the " blown up " BS.

De La Hoya - If you want to have a better case for one of B-HOP's opponents being " blown up " then DLH is your better choice, as DLH actually showed legitimate struggles at 160, as seen with his performance against Sturm.

Glen Johnson - Picked Johnson to pieces, giving him his only career stoppage in the process.

Howard Eastman - Good fighter, long-time leading contender in the middleweight division.

Keith Holmes - WBC champion

Winky Wright - admittedly was a bit out of his ideal weight, but hadn't diminished any of Wright's principle skill, plus Hopkins was FORTY-TWO!

Antonio Tarver - often dismissed as some piece of shit, but what numbnut fuckfaces seem to be overlooking was that he was a legitimate champion in the LHW division, holds wins not only over Jones but also Glen Johnson, Montell Griffin, Eric Harding, and Reggie Johnson. So please.. enough with the one-hit wonder BS.

Hopkins' notability - IBF champion for 10 years, undisputed middleweight champion, HELD ON to every one of his belts until losing disputedly to Taylor.

Calzaghe's opposition..

Jeff Lacy - IBF champion, and was a legitimate threat to anyone in the division at the time.

Mikkel Kessler - WBA/WBC champion, great fighter, undefeated for a very long time, Calzaghe's best win thus far.

Omar Sheika - Most notable win before losing to Calzaghe was against Glen Johnson, and did little to nothing after losing to Calzaghe.

Chris Eubank - a faded version of a once very good fighter.

Robin Reid - A good fighter, but built up to be much more due to a controversial loss to Sven fuckin' Ottke.

Byron Mitchell - good fighter, WBA champion.

Calzaghe's notability - undisputed champion, and like Hopkins held all four major belts ( although on seperate occasions ).


I made this thread mainly to show everyone who likes to argue over who has the better resume that when looking at things closely that both fighters' resume are practically dead even with one another. Both were the undisputed kings of their respective divisions, both took on the best available fighters in their division, and both fought some great, some good, and some decent opposition. Calzaghe's opposition was not super-human as compared to Hopkins' as most of Calzaghe's faithful following likes to hype them up as.

[brooklyn1550]

I agree - Hopkins has the better resume

[rusticraver]

I agree - Hopkins has the better resume

But in the Kessler win Calzaghe schooled a PRIME PRIME fighter at the age of 35, showing a wide range of offensive skills. I don't just look at recordwhen i judge Joe. His skillset is immense and dazzling to watch.

I rate him over Bhop but slightly below prime RJJ

[RAMPAGE0017]

But in the Kessler win Calzaghe schooled a PRIME PRIME fighter at the age of 35, showing a wide range of offensive skills. I don't just look at recordwhen i judge Joe. His skillset is immense and dazzling to watch.

I rate him over Bhop but slightly below prime RJJ



How old was B-HOP again when he schooled Trinidad? Wait, forget that.. how old was B-HOP when he schooled Tarver?

[RAMPAGE0017]

I agree - Hopkins has the better resume


I'm claiming they're about dead even, actually.

[rusticraver]

How old was B-HOP again when he schooled Trinidad? Wait, forget that.. how old was B-HOP when he schooled Tarver?

Trinidad too small Tarver shit

[brooklyn1550]

I'm claiming they're about dead even, actually.

:patsch Didn't see the bottom part.

In that case, Hopkins has the better resume:lol: (but not by much)

[brooklyn1550]

Trinidad too small Tarver shit

Eubank old Lacy shit

See, I can play that game too

[rusticraver]

Eubank old Lacy shit

See, I can play that game too

I remember eing worried about lacy from all the Tyson hype, it was probably te most embarrasing beat dow i've ever seen. almost felt sorry for him. IT begs the question how many fighters from 160-175 could have done what Calzaghe did?

[brooklyn1550]

I remember eing worried about lacy from all the Tyson hype, it was probably te most embarrasing beat dow i've ever seen. almost felt sorry for him. IT begs the question how many fighters from 160-175 could have done what Calzaghe did?

None - Calzaghe is unbelievable. His resume isn't as good as Bernard's, but head to head, I think he's better.

[G_RapPBF]

calzaghe hasnt fought anyone in his entire career. If Kessler and friggin Lacy are the best fightes on his ticket when he retires aint nobody gonna give a shit once that happens.

[brooklyn1550]

calzaghe hasnt fought anyone in his entire career. If Kessler and friggin Lacy are the best fightes on his ticket when he retires aint nobody gonna give a shit once that happens.

Mikkel Kessler is one of the best fighters in boxing and has a very good chance to make a great legacy.

It's one of those wins that could appreciate more with time. Similar to Jones win over Hopkins (except Hopkins wasn't as accomplished as Kessler)

[maciek4]

Hopkins lost to Jermain Taylor though and I dont see how Calzaghe would lose to him.

[inchpunch]

Hmmm...where is the loss against a good, but clearly not great Taylor here...?

The difference between the two is that Hopkins has a legit loss in a winnable fight and a very unconvincing win against a undersized Winky...Calzaghe was never close to losing, Hopkins was a few times. No shame in losing to a prime RJJ, but he underperformed against Taylor and Winky, something that never happened to Calzaghe. Records and resumes need to be looked at beyond numbers only.

[RAMPAGE0017]

Hmmm...where is the loss against a good, but clearly not great Taylor here...?

The difference between the two is that Hopkins has a legit loss in a winnable fight and a very unconvincing win against a undersized Winky...Calzaghe was never close to losing, Hopkins was a few times. No shame in losing to a prime RJJ, but he underperformed against Taylor and Winky, something that never happened to Calzaghe. Records and resumes need to be looked at beyond numbers only.


His win over Winky was " unconvincing " yet Taylor's win was legit? :huh

And once again, you seem to be forgetting that Hopkins beat Winky at 42 years of age, and he was also someone whom people were touting as a top 10 P4P fighter.

[RAMPAGE0017]

And just for the record, I left out Hopkins' losses because people seem to like to criticize him a lot more for his wins than his losses, oddly enough.

[headhunter]

I'd say Hopkins has faced the better fighters but they were for the most part smaller then him.Where as Joe hasn't faced as good a opposition they were his weightclass.So I would say they were about even as well.

[Southpaw Brit]

Hopkins' opposition..

Felix Trinidad - Held the WBA MW title. Often simplified to just being a " blown-up WW ", yet people seem to forget how he annihilated WBA middleweight champion William Joppy and gave him his only career KO. And people ALSO seem to forget how much of a destructive force Trinidad was at the time. So save the " blown up " BS.

De La Hoya - If you want to have a better case for one of B-HOP's opponents being " blown up " then DLH is your better choice, as DLH actually showed legitimate struggles at 160, as seen with his performance against Sturm.

Glen Johnson - Picked Johnson to pieces, giving him his only career stoppage in the process.

Howard Eastman - Good fighter, long-time leading contender in the middleweight division.

Keith Holmes - WBC champion

Winky Wright - admittedly was a bit out of his ideal weight, but hadn't diminished any of Wright's principle skill, plus Hopkins was FORTY-TWO!

Antonio Tarver - often dismissed as some piece of shit, but what numbnut fuckfaces seem to be overlooking was that he was a legitimate champion in the LHW division, holds wins not only over Jones but also Glen Johnson, Montell Griffin, Eric Harding, and Reggie Johnson. So please.. enough with the one-hit wonder BS.

Hopkins' notability - IBF champion for 10 years, undisputed middleweight champion, HELD ON to every one of his belts until losing disputedly to Taylor.

Calzaghe's opposition..

Jeff Lacy - IBF champion, and was a legitimate threat to anyone in the division at the time.

Mikkel Kessler - WBA/WBC champion, great fighter, undefeated for a very long time, Calzaghe's best win thus far.

Omar Sheika - Most notable win before losing to Calzaghe was against Glen Johnson, and did little to nothing after losing to Calzaghe.

Chris Eubank - a faded version of a once very good fighter.

Robin Reid - A good fighter, but built up to be much more due to a controversial loss to Sven fuckin' Ottke.

Byron Mitchell - good fighter, WBA champion.

Calzaghe's notability - undisputed champion, and like Hopkins held all four major belts ( although on seperate occasions ).


I made this thread mainly to show everyone who likes to argue over who has the better resume that when looking at things closely that both fighters' resume are practically dead even with one another. Both were the undisputed kings of their respective divisions, both took on the best available fighters in their division, and both fought some great, some good, and some decent opposition. Calzaghe's opposition was not super-human as compared to Hopkins' as most of Calzaghe's faithful following likes to hype them up as.

On paper here they're fairly even, but Kessler is a better fighter than anyone on Hopkins' list, AND the way Calzaghe handled him was simply awesome. Kessler fought a great fight, made practically no mistakes & would have beaten anyone else at 168lbs that night, including a good few at 175lbs.

Calzaghe will beat Hopkins if they ever fight. Hopkins ends up by the end of the night looking a little like this... :dead

[G_RapPBF]

On paper here they're fairly even, but Kessler is a better fighter than anyone on Hopkins' list, AND the way Calzaghe handled him was simply awesome. Kessler fought a great fight, made practically no mistakes & would have beaten anyone else at 168lbs that night, including a good few at 175lbs.

Calzaghe will beat Hopkins if they ever fight. Hopkins ends up by the end of the night looking a little like this... :dead

Lmao, kessler the fucking dane better then DLH, Wright, Trinidad or Tarver? Yeah what planet are you living on?

Super middleweight is almost as shitty a division as cruiserweight.

[brooklyn1550]

Lmao, kessler the fucking dane better then DLH, Wright, Trinidad or Tarver? Yeah what planet are you living on?

Super middleweight is almost as shitty a division as cruiserweight.

This post makes it clear that you aren't to be taken seriously, but I'll respond to it however.

Yes, Mikkel Kessler, at 168, is better than Winky Wright at 170. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this. Kessler has the better jab, more power, better timing, better stamina, and more speed. Wright is the BIGGER NAME. But at or above 168, Kessler is the BETTER FIGHTER.

Same goes for Kessler and Trinidad. Trinidad, at 160, was a very good fighter who destroyed William Joppy. But otherwise, he wasn't as good as Kessler is at 168. Kessler actually has the superior resume when it comes to these two weight classes. I'm not talking P4P because in that case, Trinidad takes it.

And finally we get to Antonio Tarver. When Tarver lost to Hopkins, he was not better than Kessler. Kessler is stronger, more skilled, better at keeping a distance, faster, and has the better jab. Tarver is the bigger name, but wasn't the better fighter.

------------------------------------------------

As far as the cruiserweight/super middleweight comment - it's the fighters that make the division, not the division that makes the fighters. Basically, a stupid comment on your part.

------------------------------------------------

It seems as though you are impressed by big names. While Wright and Tarver are big names, and excellent wins for Hopkins, the Kessler win was better for Calzaghe.

[G_RapPBF]

What proof do you have of the assertion that Kessler is a better fighter then Wright, Tarver, DLH or trinidad. Despite not facing any opposition that would prove otherwise? Kessler is a young bull, but Calzaghe was toying with him in the last half of the fight, I saw nothing special, he doesnt have a devastating 1 hitter quiter, he looked average at best.

Yes fighters make divisions, and those divisions I named are virtually deviod of top talent. Kessler may have been the 2nd best fighter at supermiddle, but thats not saying much at all really is it?

[brooklyn1550]

What proof do you have of the assertion that Kessler is a better fighter then Wright, Tarver, DLH or trinidad. Despite not facing any opposition that would prove otherwise? Kessler is a young bull, but Calzaghe was toying with him in the last half of the fight, I saw nothing special, he doesnt have a devastating 1 hitter quiter, he looked average at best.

Yes fighters make divisions, and those divisions I named are virtually deviod of top talent. Kessler may have been the 2nd best fighter at supermiddle, but thats not saying much at all really is it?

Look at the way Kessler dominated B level opposition (Mundine, Lucas, Andrade, Beyer). He barely lost a single round. Now compare that with Winky Wright's struggle with Sam Soliman and draw with Jermain Taylor. And going on my eye and viewing of many fights, Kessler is better than Tarver for all the reasons I listed. Tarver has struggled with B level fighters, Kessler dominates them.

And a 34 year old, inactive De La Hoya is still very good, but not as good as Mikkel because he lacks the stamina, workrate, speed, jab, and power than Kessler has right now.

You can make a good case for Trinidad though.

Why would being the second best as SMW not be saying much. SMW has more talent and more depth than MW.

[Smith]

One thing mate. Robin Reid was in no way hype. I was a big fan of his, at his peak he was WORLD-CLASS. His peak just happened to not last very long.

[G_RapPBF]

Look at the way Kessler dominated B level opposition (Mundine, Lucas, Andrade, Beyer). He barely lost a single round. Now compare that with Winky Wright's struggle with Sam Soliman and draw with Jermain Taylor. And going on my eye and viewing of many fights, Kessler is better than Tarver for all the reasons I listed. Tarver has struggled with B level fighters, Kessler dominates them.

And a 34 year old, inactive De La Hoya is still very good, but not as good as Mikkel because he lacks the stamina, workrate, speed, jab, and power than Kessler has right now.

You can make a good case for Trinidad though.

Why would being the second best as SMW not be saying much. SMW has more talent and more depth than MW.

the problem with asking who fought the better B level fighters is, its who fought the better B level fighters lol. There is no way to know what average fighter was worse then the other. We can only go on competition, and Taylor who isnt a bad fighter, is better then any opposition Kessler has faced. Wright has beaten great fighters and had great bouts. Kessler gets whooped his first bout against an A level fighter. And you saying that SMW is better the MW is hilarous. Lacy? Kessler? Manfredy? Compared to Pavlik Taylor, Wright, Please. Kessler flaws became apparent. Calzaghe was basically asking him to land a knockout blow but he was ineffective. Average speed, average power.

[brooklyn1550]

the problem with asking who fought the better B level fighters is, its who fought the better B level fighters lol. There is no way to know what average fighter was worse then the other. We can only go on competition, and Taylor who isnt a bad fighter, is better then any opposition Kessler has faced. Wright has beaten great fighters and had great bouts. Kessler gets whooped his first bout against an A level fighter. And you saying that SMW is better the MW is hilarous. Lacy? Kessler? Pavlik, Taylor, Wright, Manfredy? Please. Kessler flaws became apparent. Calzaghe was basically asking him to land a knockout blow but he was ineffective. Average speed, average power.

SMW: Calzaghe, Kessler, Bute, Mundine, Lacy, Froch, Inkin, Brahmer, Andrade, Miranda, Pascal, Green, Tsypko, Berrio, Bika, Zuniga, Beyer

MW: Pavlik, Taylor, Wright, Sturm, Castillejo, Mora, Duddy, Sylvester, Asikainen, Lorenzo, Griffin, Joval, McKart, Gevor, Marquez, Carrera

I would definitely say super middleweight is deeper in its talent pool and has the better top fighter (Calzaghe > Pavlik).

--------------------------------------------------------

When you say Wright and Taylor have faced better competition than Kessler, you are 100 percent correct. They have faced the better fighters and beaten great fighters.

But answer this: at 168 (and 175 for the last one), who would win the following matchups now?

Mikkel Kessler vs. Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler vs. Jermain Taylor
Mikkel Kessler vs. Antonio Tarver

--------------------------------------------------------

Kessler doesn't have average speed or average power. Too debunk the "average speed" claim, I suggest you watch the fight with Librado Andrade where he employs great ring generalship and moreover, displays excellent handspeed for a big man, unleashing 4, 5, and 6 punch combinations with precision. To see examples of his power, the Beyer, Lucas, and Green fights are good ones. He doesn't have the power of Kelly Pavlik, but he has above average power.

Kessler did a lot of good things in there against Calzaghe, but Calzaghe's greatness as a fighter is the reason why Kessler was dominated. Calzaghe took his jab away, showed great defense, threw more fluid and faster combinations, and went upstairs and downstairs.

It wasn't a fight such as the Lacy one where you turn off the TV and think "that guy was overrated." This one was a fight in which you had to admit Calzaghe is a great fighter - if it wasn't previously apparent.

Kessler is somewhat one dimensional in the fact that he is not very good inside, does not throw a lot of body punches, and lacks GREAT punch variety. But he is so effective and talented enough to be called an elite fighter. Once Joe leaves 168, I don't see anybody beating Kessler for a long time, until he moves up to 175 in which Chad Dawson could end up beating him if he fufills his own potential.

[G_RapPBF]

Nope. Im looking at the top 4, and its far and away better then anything in the SMW, in which the only legit fighter is a 35 year old Calzaghe. Even Sturm gave De La Hoya fits. We dont know how great Calzaghe is, since he's never been in a big fight against a top P4P fighter. Pavlik would give Calzaghe fits, he's a better big puncher then Kessler, and is far better at working his jab, against a very fast and very powerful Taylor he proved that. Calzaghe is fast, but he's largely a slap boxer, not much power in those punches. If he showboated like he did against Kessler, against Pavlik, leaving his chin out there, he would be KO'd plain and simple.

Kessler looked weak, plain and simple and he was the younger, supposedly stronger fighter. Calzaghe can do much better. Oh and Kessler would lose all three of those bouts.

[Smith]

Nope. Im looking at the top 4, and its far and away better then anything in the SMW, in which the only legit fighter is a 35 year old Calzaghe. Even Sturm gave De La Hoya fits. We dont know how great Calzaghe is, since he's never been in a big fight against a top P4P fighter. Pavlik would give Calzaghe fits, he's a better big puncher then Kessler, and is far better at working his jab, against a very fast and very powerful Taylor he proved that. Calzaghe is fast, but he's largely a slap boxer, not much power in those punches. If he showboated like he did against Kessler, against Pavlik, leaving his chin out there, he would be KO'd plain and simple.

Kessler looked weak, plain and simple and he was the younger, supposedly stronger fighter. Calzaghe can do much better. Oh and Kessler would lose all three of those bouts.:roll: :hi:

[brooklyn1550]

Nope. Im looking at the top 4, and its far and away better then anything in the SMW, in which the only legit fighter is a 35 year old Calzaghe. Even Sturm gave De La Hoya fits. We dont know how great Calzaghe is, since he's never been in a big fight against a top P4P fighter. Pavlik would give Calzaghe fits, he's a better big puncher then Kessler, and is far better at working his jab, against a very fast and very powerful Taylor he proved that. Calzaghe is fast, but he's largely a slap boxer, not much power in those punches. If he showboated like he did against Kessler, against Pavlik, leaving his chin out there, he would be KO'd plain and simple.

Kessler looked weak, plain and simple and he was the younger, supposedly stronger fighter. Calzaghe can do much better. Oh and Kessler would lose all three of those bouts.

Kessler was the WBC and WBA Super Middleweight champion? How is that not legit.

And while Bute and Mundine aren't legit, Felix Sturm is? Please explain that. And don't bring up the De La Hoya loss - Oscar is a MASSIVE NAME, but above 154, he's extremely limited and not an elite fighter. Because Sturm probably beat him proves he's a decent fighter, but nothing like Calzaghe or Kessler. Imagine what Kessler would do to Oscar?

Sturm recently had a draw with Randy Griffin and was knocked out by Javier Castillejo. He's not a top fighter and definitely not as legit as Calzaghe, Kessler, Bute, Mundine, and Lacy who have been able to win clearly and without controversy against better fighters.

--------------------------------------------------

Speaking about Calzaghe-Pavlik. Pavlik doesn't have the speed, reflexes, timing, and chin of Calzaghe.

He wouldn't land his straight right hand with any regularity because Calzaghe is great defensively and he took away Kessler's right hand beautifully.

Pavlik wouldn't establish a jab either because Calzaghe's southpaw stance, defense, and movement make it nearly impossible to establish a jab. Pavlik was able to establish a very good jab against Taylor because Taylor has defensive liabilities and does not have Calzaghe's ring generalship.

Watch Kessler's fights against Andrade and Beyer. His jab is faster than Pavlik's and more accurate. In no way, shape, or form is Pavlik much better with his jab because he was able to land it consistantly on Jermain Taylor.

And if Calzaghe is a slap boxer, why was he able to hurt Kessler badly with a bodyshot? Why does he have a 70+ percent KO ratio? Why did he stop Byron Mitchell in the second round, Veit in the first, and knock down Chris Eubank? He doesn't dig his shots like Cotto or throw them with the authority of Klitschko, but he can punch.

[brooklyn1550]

And what are your views on these matchups?

Mikkel Kessler vs. Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler vs. Jermain Taylor
Mikkel Kessler vs. Antonio Tarver
Mikkel Kessler vs. Felix Sturm

[Amsterdam]

How old was B-HOP again when he schooled Trinidad? Wait, forget that.. how old was B-HOP when he schooled Tarver?

Kessler is a much better fighter than Tarver, you also forgot to add in Richie Woodhall for Calzaghe and explain how destructive his wins over Lacy and Mitchell were.

How a fight is won is just as important as the win itself, and you added when Hopkins totally dominated a guy, such as a Johnson and you should have because he's the only guy to dominate and stop Johnson.

Mitchell had been a former linear champion, KO'd Liles and Siaca, was very competitive with all of the other top guys he faced and was robbed against Ottke, Calzaghe was tossing him around like a ragdoll and finished him in two, despited being KD'd in the hailstorm himself.

[Amsterdam]

And what are your views on these matchups?

Mikkel Kessler vs. Winky Wright
Mikkel Kessler vs. Jermain Taylor
Mikkel Kessler vs. Antonio Tarver
Mikkel Kessler vs. Felix Sturm

Prime/prime?

Kessler KO Wright

Kessler KO Taylor

Kessler UD Tarver

Kessler KO Sturm

Now?

Kessler KO Wright

Kessler KO Taylor

Kessler KO Tarver

Kessler KO Sturm

Basically, Tarver, because of his size, has a chance, but this is a guy who in his prime almost lost to a shot Reggie Johnson and was outboxed by Harding also, despite avenging the harding lost, he was still being outboxed before he sparked him. Do you see him sparking Kessler? I don't.

So Tarver's best bet would be using his reach and trying to box Mikkel and win close, but I see Kessler picking threw his leaky defence all night. And now, Tarver is shot and has been since the B-hop fight, Santiago may even give him a hard fight.

[brooklyn1550]

I'd agree with those picks as well...

Kessler gets Wright in 8-10, Taylor in 4-7, Tarver in 8-10, and Sturm in 3-6

Aside from Calzaghe, I wouldn't favor anybody over him. Chad Dawson would probably be the one to beat him if somebody other than Joe did.

[Amsterdam]

I'd agree with those picks as well...

Kessler gets Wright in 8-10, Taylor in 4-7, Tarver in 8-10, and Sturm in 3-6

Aside from Calzaghe, I wouldn't favor anybody over him. Chad Dawson would probably be the one to beat him if somebody other than Joe did.

Dawson/Kessler is 50/50 and I can see Dawson having a lot of trouble with him even if he did win, but I'd be rooting for Dawson as I like him more than Kessler, but I also like Kessler, he's a credit to boxing and I will so furious if a classy fighter in and out of the ring like him ends up getting ducked and avoided like Joe was for years.

And I don't rate any of Hopkins wins up there with Joe's over Kesslers, Trinidad was dominated like the 1 dimensional fighter that he was, just like Lacy was dominated. The thing is, Trinidad at 160 and Lacy are not great fighters, they are just effective/good fighters who provide entertainment because of pleasing slugger styles. The reason these wins for B-Hop and Joe are so great is because it is so rare for any elite fighter to just absolutely dominate every aspect of a fight with a top class contender(both were), most people can't do that.

I also made the statement that an elite guy like Nunn at his best was dropping a whole lot more rounds against second tier crop than Kessler was.

CHJ made a great statement, he said 'I guess you can't get credit for dominating a limited, but very good guy unless his name is Felix Trinidad'.:yep

Now don't get me wrong, this just applies to the MW Trinidad, below MW Trinidad is a top form elite and an ATG WW.

[Amsterdam]

I think another thing that some bozo's don't understand is cultural differences. Calzaghe, as with most European fighters, are well mannered and do the business in the ring, Miguel Cotto is the same way but has more of a 'wickedness' to his disposition and that provides the extra-fight charisma.

I guess Hopkins pretending to slap Wright in the press conferance as a show of 'fake thuggery' is more appealing than just being good sportsman and giving each other hell in the ring.

But then I think -

'Guzman is a ducked, loud mouth, machismo ego trip of the highest order, and they have reservations about him more so than shit prospects that get hyped frequently'.

Why are the Supernaturals doubted first hand and pieces of crap like Andre Berto getting sympathy?

And then I come to realise - 'Amsterdam, don't even bother, the majority lacks the intellect to appreciate a supernatural'

:yep :yep :yep

This type of crap logic is coming as a shock to Brooklyn1550, who as an American is not used to it as much, or maybe even missed it because international fighters have been coming up more recently, but we've been dealing with this idiocy for years upon years. I remember posting at a boxing forum in 2003 after Calzaghe annihilated Mitchell, nobody cares, but then some hype job beats a can and they flip out.

Then people wonder why and when CHJ lost his damn mind, well, here it is.:yep

[China_hand_Joe]

The resumes are about equal. However Calzaghe didn't find the limit to his skills, Hopkins did.

[jecxbox]

What makes Calzaghe special is this man has totally derailed up and coming future "stars" with ease and at his age the man has STILL only lost a hand full of rounds in his ENTIRE career and that is f'n scary. The guy has put on a clinic in nearly every single fight and hes done so with a style that is always pleasing for us to see.

[KO Boxing]

I agree - Hopkins has the better resume
:lol:

I literally read one reply. Probably shouldn't of, but thanks for that! All that really needs to be said...

[brooklyn1550]

:lol:

I literally read one reply. Probably shouldn't of, but thanks for that! All that really needs to be said...

What do you find funny?

[Amsterdam]

What makes Calzaghe special is this man has totally derailed up and coming future "stars" with ease and at his age the man has STILL only lost a hand full of rounds in his ENTIRE career and that is f'n scary. The guy has put on a clinic in nearly every single fight and hes done so with a style that is always pleasing for us to see.

He's dropped about 25 rounds in 44 wins roughly, not many.

[wrastla285]

Hopkins' opposition..

Felix Trinidad - Held the WBA MW title. Often simplified to just being a " blown-up WW ", yet people seem to forget how he annihilated WBA middleweight champion William Joppy and gave him his only career KO. And people ALSO seem to forget how much of a destructive force Trinidad was at the time. So save the " blown up " BS.

De La Hoya - If you want to have a better case for one of B-HOP's opponents being " blown up " then DLH is your better choice, as DLH actually showed legitimate struggles at 160, as seen with his performance against Sturm.

Glen Johnson - Picked Johnson to pieces, giving him his only career stoppage in the process.

Howard Eastman - Good fighter, long-time leading contender in the middleweight division.

Keith Holmes - WBC champion

Winky Wright - admittedly was a bit out of his ideal weight, but hadn't diminished any of Wright's principle skill, plus Hopkins was FORTY-TWO!

Antonio Tarver - often dismissed as some piece of shit, but what numbnut fuckfaces seem to be overlooking was that he was a legitimate champion in the LHW division, holds wins not only over Jones but also Glen Johnson, Montell Griffin, Eric Harding, and Reggie Johnson. So please.. enough with the one-hit wonder BS.

Hopkins' notability - IBF champion for 10 years, undisputed middleweight champion, HELD ON to every one of his belts until losing disputedly to Taylor.

Calzaghe's opposition..

Jeff Lacy - IBF champion, and was a legitimate threat to anyone in the division at the time.

Mikkel Kessler - WBA/WBC champion, great fighter, undefeated for a very long time, Calzaghe's best win thus far.

Omar Sheika - Most notable win before losing to Calzaghe was against Glen Johnson, and did little to nothing after losing to Calzaghe.

Chris Eubank - a faded version of a once very good fighter.

Robin Reid - A good fighter, but built up to be much more due to a controversial loss to Sven fuckin' Ottke.

Byron Mitchell - good fighter, WBA champion.

Calzaghe's notability - undisputed champion, and like Hopkins held all four major belts ( although on seperate occasions ).


I made this thread mainly to show everyone who likes to argue over who has the better resume that when looking at things closely that both fighters' resume are practically dead even with one another. Both were the undisputed kings of their respective divisions, both took on the best available fighters in their division, and both fought some great, some good, and some decent opposition. Calzaghe's opposition was not super-human as compared to Hopkins' as most of Calzaghe's faithful following likes to hype them up as.


I give the nod to Bernards resume, however Calzaghe has something Bernard does not. Thats a big ol ------->0<-------- in the loss department.

[KO Boxing]

What do you find funny?
Dunno really. Suppose just the bluntness of the reply. Now that I look, the thread ain't that big. Thought it was bigger

[mstar]

i think basically JC has a lot more skills and to bring to the table then what hopkins has to offer. b-hop is good as what he does but i just think against calzaghe he will be just fall short... bad fight for b-hop and he knows it for sure. i agree with some posters on here kessler is much better then any fighter B-hop has faced for sure!

i mean hopkins peek a boo style is just to wrong for joe as he would just outwork him

i love this video of Bernard "runner" hopkins, heheeee

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[sthomas]

Alot of good points on this thread. I say Calzaghe's record is more than slightly a bit better than Hopkins, not based on competition, but because he's undefeated and more importantly I think Calzeghe would have taken Taylor to school like he did Lacy. There would have been only 1 Taylor fight and a rematch would have been completely unwarranted.

I do lean slightly to Hopkins competition being better, but other than the Trinidad fight I don't think Hopkins is some dragonslayer. One other point in defense of both men, their victories over Trinidad/Tarver & Lacy/Kesser were damn good. Felix 1 dimensional, Lacy overatted, Tarver bad, Kessler robot are easy retro descriptions. They were all very good wins.

Pavlik's been mentioned. He's one of my favorites and he's a great, underrated by critics, fighter. I think Calzeghe could handle his power just fine, he's got an underatted chin, but mainly because he would'nt get hit the way Taylor did. I think Calz would pull out a UD like Kessler. I think PAv. vs. Kessler would be a better fight, I'd have a hard time picking in that one.

Calz. and Hopkins gotta fight next year and I'd pick Calz. UD @ this time

[brooklyn1550]

Suppose just the bluntness of the reply.

:D

[mike464]

Calzaghe's record is much weaker than B-Hop's. I don't think any one would question that.

[El Bombasto]

I suppose if you set aside the fact that Calzghe wins 100% of time and Hopkins is at about 90% (60% during the last 3 years), you could make that argument.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Hopkins opponents have also accomplished a TON more then Joe's opponents. You guys can claim all day how great Joe's opponents were, but that seems to be based more on you opinion then what they've actually done.

ANd this "Kessler is top10 P4P" crap neds to stop as well. Kessler is very good, but he's only beaten guys NO ONE thought highly of to begin with.

[TFFP]

Kessler at SMW is a better win than any of Hopkins

Apart from that, the records aren't worlds apart

Unfortunately one holds the right passport, therefore is widely acknowledged as a great, and the other isn't

[China_hand_Joe]

ANd this "Kessler is top10 P4P" crap neds to stop as well. Kessler is very good, but he's only beaten guys NO ONE thought highly of to begin with.

Hopkins shouldn't be top 10 either.

[El Bombasto]

Hopkins shouldn't be top 10 either.

yup

[dodong]

This thread just looks at 7 opposition for Hopkins. List their top 25 so you could analyze it deeper.

This thread is disguised to sell Calzaghe's suspect resume and I ain't buying it!

[RAMPAGE0017]

Dawson/Kessler is 50/50 and I can see Dawson having a lot of trouble with him even if he did win, but I'd be rooting for Dawson as I like him more than Kessler, but I also like Kessler, he's a credit to boxing and I will so furious if a classy fighter in and out of the ring like him ends up getting ducked and avoided like Joe was for years.

And I don't rate any of Hopkins wins up there with Joe's over Kesslers, Trinidad was dominated like the 1 dimensional fighter that he was, just like Lacy was dominated. The thing is, Trinidad at 160 and Lacy are not great fighters, they are just effective/good fighters who provide entertainment because of pleasing slugger styles. The reason these wins for B-Hop and Joe are so great is because it is so rare for any elite fighter to just absolutely dominate every aspect of a fight with a top class contender(both were), most people can't do that.

I also made the statement that an elite guy like Nunn at his best was dropping a whole lot more rounds against second tier crop than Kessler was.

CHJ made a great statement, he said 'I guess you can't get credit for dominating a limited, but very good guy unless his name is Felix Trinidad'.:yep

Now don't get me wrong, this just applies to the MW Trinidad, below MW Trinidad is a top form elite and an ATG WW.

How did Trinidad's move up in weight make him become " one-dimensional "? That's a new one on me..

And Hopkins' thrashing of Trinidad has underrated Trinidad severely. People are basically saying " well, if he got THAT thoroughly then he must be one-dimensional ", yet it's not like this was the first time someone tried to box Trinidad.. but then again, I guess if Hopkins has one thing in common with Calzaghe it's that no matter who he fights and beats he just won't get credit for it.

[RAMPAGE0017]

Hopkins opponents have also accomplished a TON more then Joe's opponents. You guys can claim all day how great Joe's opponents were, but that seems to be based more on you opinion then what they've actually done.


Exactly.. Calzaghe's defenders build up his opposition as though it was supernatural. Ofcourse Calzaghe's resume is a good one, but for fuck's sake.. this isn't Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard we're talking about here.

[RAMPAGE0017]

How a fight is won is just as important as the win itself, and you added when Hopkins totally dominated a guy, such as a Johnson and you should have because he's the only guy to dominate and stop Johnson.


Ofcourse Calzaghe undisputedly beat the majority of his opposition, but If I'm going to make that apparent then I am ALSO going to explain how Calzaghe received his share of BS stoppages, such as those against Mitchell and Sheika.


Mitchell had been a former linear champion, KO'd Liles and Siaca, was very competitive with all of the other top guys he faced and was robbed against Ottke, Calzaghe was tossing him around like a ragdoll and finished him in two, despited being KD'd in the hailstorm himself.

Getting robbed against a piece of shit like Ottke isn't something THAT noteworthy, in my judgement.

[China_hand_Joe]

Exactly.. Calzaghe's defenders build up his opposition as though it was supernatural. Ofcourse Calzaghe's resume is a good one, but for fuck's sake.. this isn't Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard we're talking about here.

Calzaghe has a better resume than Ali, that is beyond doubt.

Calzaghe losing to someone like Fraizer? :lol:

[MattyC808]

Trinidad too small Tarver shit

The fact is everyone here claims that Trinidad was a blown up welterweight however in reality he was a middleweight competing at welter.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Hopkins shouldn't be top 10 either.

I don't think so either, but I'd still place him above Kessler right now.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Calzaghe has a better resume than Ali, that is beyond doubt.

Calzaghe losing to someone like Fraizer? :lol:

This is exactly why no one should take you seriously.

[The Akbar One]

Hopkins' opposition..

Felix Trinidad - Held the WBA MW title. Often simplified to just being a " blown-up WW ", yet people seem to forget how he annihilated WBA middleweight champion William Joppy and gave him his only career KO. And people ALSO seem to forget how much of a destructive force Trinidad was at the time. So save the " blown up " BS.

De La Hoya - If you want to have a better case for one of B-HOP's opponents being " blown up " then DLH is your better choice, as DLH actually showed legitimate struggles at 160, as seen with his performance against Sturm.

Glen Johnson - Picked Johnson to pieces, giving him his only career stoppage in the process.

Howard Eastman - Good fighter, long-time leading contender in the middleweight division.

Keith Holmes - WBC champion

Winky Wright - admittedly was a bit out of his ideal weight, but hadn't diminished any of Wright's principle skill, plus Hopkins was FORTY-TWO!

Antonio Tarver - often dismissed as some piece of shit, but what numbnut fuckfaces seem to be overlooking was that he was a legitimate champion in the LHW division, holds wins not only over Jones but also Glen Johnson, Montell Griffin, Eric Harding, and Reggie Johnson. So please.. enough with the one-hit wonder BS.

Hopkins' notability - IBF champion for 10 years, undisputed middleweight champion, HELD ON to every one of his belts until losing disputedly to Taylor.

Calzaghe's opposition..

Jeff Lacy - IBF champion, and was a legitimate threat to anyone in the division at the time.

Mikkel Kessler - WBA/WBC champion, great fighter, undefeated for a very long time, Calzaghe's best win thus far.

Omar Sheika - Most notable win before losing to Calzaghe was against Glen Johnson, and did little to nothing after losing to Calzaghe.

Chris Eubank - a faded version of a once very good fighter.

Robin Reid - A good fighter, but built up to be much more due to a controversial loss to Sven fuckin' Ottke.

Byron Mitchell - good fighter, WBA champion.

Calzaghe's notability - undisputed champion, and like Hopkins held all four major belts ( although on seperate occasions ).


I made this thread mainly to show everyone who likes to argue over who has the better resume that when looking at things closely that both fighters' resume are practically dead even with one another. Both were the undisputed kings of their respective divisions, both took on the best available fighters in their division, and both fought some great, some good, and some decent opposition. Calzaghe's opposition was not super-human as compared to Hopkins' as most of Calzaghe's faithful following likes to hype them up as.

I disagree that they are dead even. I still favor Hopkins a bit more. Outside of the guys you mentioned, Robert Allen in the first two fights was a legit top 10 guy at 160, and so was Antwon Echols. So was Syd Vanderpool. John David Jackson, etc.

After Hopkins was in his prime you never saw him struggle with anybody like Calzaghe struggled with Brewer?