Fight of The Century?

[McGrain]

Which of these were bigger, in retrospect and at the time.

JEFFRIES V JOHNSON
LOUIS V SCHMELING II
FRAZIER V ALI I

I guess these are the three biggest fights in heavyweight history, but if you feel like there was something bigger, speak up.

[Raggamuffin]

Difficult one this.
Jeffries-Johnson was at that time a mega event but was tainted by the racial conflict. This started off the search for the"Great White Hope that made it's way into the 70's and 80's
Louis-Schmelling was important cause off the setting off WW2. A win for Louis would be a blow for nazi Germany
Simply boxingwise i choose Ali-Frazier. 2 undefeated champions matched their wills against each other. And boy, did they deliver

[McGrain]

Simply boxingwise i choose Ali-Frazier. 2 undefeated champions matched their wills against each other. And boy, did they deliver

Remember that Jeffries-Johnson had two undefeated champs too!

I also think some peole underestimate the social significance of the fight you have chosen. The begginings of America healing itself of the wounds caused by the civil rights strife, beggining to re-align itself with the reality of Vietnam. Ali had major political momentum going into that fight.

[MachineGunMitch]

its generational.....each was a different time and place,for it's generation it was the FOTC....since I wasent born yet for the first 2 I cant comment
and the third,ali frazier I was too young to experence since I was like 4 years old and only knew Sesame Street.....FOTC for me would have to be something I could experience,Id say
Hagler SRL was FOTC for my generation,maybe Tyson Douglass?
Hearns SRL ?

[Rattler]

1. Jeffries v Johnson
2. Frazier v Ali I
3. Louis v Schmeling II

All of them are important in a historical sense, regarding boxing and social attention. Louis/Schmeling has the issue of Nazi Germany and the impending World War that keeps it consciously important - but Louis beating Schmeling, isn't a huge accomplishment in the history of the sport, as Louis clearly out classes Max.

Frazier/Ali I had the issue of Ali and Vietnam, to make it a national event. But plenty of people didn't care about the fight, because they didn't care about boxing and the 70's HW era hadn't really heated up to the point it's so easily remembered for being now. You could say that Foreman/Ali was as big as the first of the trilogy fights - although you still had two legendary boxers in the ring.

Jeffries/Johnson, though, was as relevant to American society as Jackie Robinson playing for the Dodgers. In early 1900's America, race was a sensational issue. Johnson, for all intent and purpose, was the most famous American athlete around the world - because he was HW champ and because he was black.

Jeffries was already a boxing legend, so to have two of the greatest HW champions ever facing off, under the scrutiny of race and sport, was unprecedented. Also, unlike Ali/Frazier, for Americans, boxing was almost as big as baseball - and the other professional sport leagues that garner greater amounts of attention amongst sports fans opposite boxing nowadays, didn't exist.

Riots broke out all over the country, because of the Jeffries/Johnson fight. The face of the sport was changed forever, because of this fight. If there was solid film footage available of it, it would stand out even more. The fact that it exists for most people, in the simple text of black and white yet remains viably important, only shows how big it was.

[Senya13]

Sayers-Heenan

[McGrain]

3. Louis v Schmeling II

Really? I think the following argument could be made: after the battle of Britain the most important battle for the allies to win was the propoganda battle. There is a famous cartoon of Schmeling trying to get in to Hitler's study on his return from the US after his hammering and a secretary blocking the way - "He is busy" - and in the forground Hitler has his head in his hands despairingly clutching at his copy of Mein Khampf (pleased to be able to say that I'm not sure of my spelling there.

Jeffries/Johnson, though, was as relevant to American society as Jackie Robinson playing for the Dodgers.

Very interesting.

Riots broke out all over the country, because of the Jeffries/Johnson fight.

There were riots (mostly in the south, though there was trouble in NY too) after the Louis-Schmeling fight too. Though on nothing like the same scale.

[Rattler]

Really? I think the following argument could be made: after the battle of Britain the most important battle for the allies to win was the propoganda battle. There is a famous cartoon of Schmeling trying to get in to Hitler's study on his return from the US after his hammering and a secretary blocking the way - "He is busy" - and in the forground Hitler has his head in his hands despairingly clutching at his copy of Mein Khampf (pleased to be able to say that I'm not sure of my spelling there.

Compared to the other two fights, yes. It's more socially important than Ali-Frazier, but in the context of the history of boxing, it's easily 3rd. Schmeling may be underrated, but this is the only thing he's really remembered for. If he doesn't have the upset over Louis in the first fight, how much time would anybody spend discussing his career?

There were riots (mostly in the south, though there was trouble in NY too) after the Louis-Schmeling fight too. Though on nothing like the same scale.

That's because of the supposed Nazi affluence on Schmeling. They wouldn't have let Louis eat at the lunch counter or give up their seat on a bus for him, but many white americans were rooting Louis on out of patriotic cooperation.

Whereas with Johnson, even blacks were split on whether they should applaud his success or rue him for making their lives even more difficult.

[groove]

Frazier/Ali I had the issue of Ali and Vietnam, to make it a national event. But plenty of people didn't care about the fight, because they didn't care about boxing and the 70's HW era hadn't really heated up to the point it's so easily remembered for being now. You could say that Foreman/Ali was as big as the first of the trilogy fights - although you still had two legendary boxers in the ring.


The attendance (gate) and admission fees collected over a million dollars and set indoor boxing records. Closed-circuit television allowed another half million viewers, and viewers in foreign countries also tuned in for a total audience of about 300 million viewers. The fighters each received 2.5 million dollars for the bout. On the night of the fight, there were riots in many United States cities, including Chicago, where a whole theater was almost torn apart by angry attendees who had just learned they would not be able to watch the fight on closed-circuit TV.

[seb melmoth]

Frazier-Ali I was bigger.

[fightking12]

Louis V Schmeling Ii

[TBooze]

I think history will show in the end Louis/SchmellingII was.

[Dempsey1238]

Johnson Jeff hands down. It was bigger than what it was. And that it grow at that POINT in time, the largest crowd ever for a fight, in some small no known town must make the fight pretty important. Fraizer Ali 1 and Louis Schmling had the help of New York for the crowd built, No trains leaded to a small town here. Also the after math of the Johnson Jeff fight STILL affects America to this day.

[Duodenum]

Frazier-Ali I was both historically significant, and a great fight, one that measured up to the hype, and surpassed what reasonably could have been expected, given Ali's lackluster performance against Bonavena. It could not have reasonably been anticipated that Ali would produce as dynamic a showing as he did, or that Frazier would be more than equal to such a suddenly competitive challenge as Ali provided.

In terms of impact, while I generally disagree with the opinions expressed in Sports Illustrated, I do agree with them that the watershed sporting event of the Twentieth Century was Dempsey-Willard. While not even a sell-out (as was also true for Super Bowl I), it triggered the golden age of sports, and ushered in the modern era of mass marketed sports promotion. Check out your local library's newspaper microfilm. The sensationally sudden nature of Dempsey's dethroning of Willard laid the foundation for what followed.

Moreso than Louis-Schmeling II, or Johnson-Jeffries, what happened in Toledo, Ohio, on July 4, 1919, captured the public imagination and inspiration for all that followed.

Anywho, my two cents.

[Dempsey1238]

Dempsey Willard had a pretty low turn out. I would not put that as a fotc. It was not expected to be much of a fight any way. Most people felt at the time Willard would have blown Dempsey out in 3 or 4 rounds at the most. The fight became big for the beat down Dempsey lay on Willard. Small crowd, but it became a big event AFTER the fight.

[hobgoblin]

Which of these were bigger, in retrospect and at the time.

JEFFRIES V JOHNSON
LOUIS V SCHMELING II
FRAZIER V ALI I

I guess these are the three biggest fights in heavyweight history, but if you feel like there was something bigger, speak up.

Easy. Frazier vs Ali I

Jeffries came back from retirement - he had no business in the ring at that time. Schmelling fight occured during his twilight. Frazier v Ali was evenly matched up - two UNDISUPTED, UNDEFEATED Champions facing each other. That was a legitimate fight - the first two were not.

[dav8d777]

Easy. Frazier vs Ali I

Jeffries came back from retirement - he had no business in the ring at that time. Schmelling fight occured during his twilight. Frazier v Ali was evenly matched up - two UNDISUPTED, UNDEFEATED Champions facing each other. That was a legitimate fight - the first two were not.

It sounds like to me you are talking about the most anticipated fights instead of how the fight played out. In that respect Jeffries v. Johnson was the fight of that era. In our lifetimes there is no doubt that Ali-Frazier 1 could never be beat. The hype for that fight was just incredible.

Anyone who is not old enough to remember that fight would have a hard time understanding the level of anticipation. That is probably the same for Jeffries / Johnson.

I would give an honorable mention to Dempsey / Tunney 2. Also, since we are talking about all of heavyweight history maybe Heenan / Sayers.

[RockyJim]

All Time??...Louis vs Schmeling-1938........
In my lifetime?-Ali/Frazier 1-1971.....

[C. M. Clay II]

I would say Louis-Schmeing II. It was country against country at that point. You had politics drawn in and the question of which way the world was gonna go. That's much bigger than any other fight's theme, IMO.:good

[avsouza06]

All Time??...Louis vs Schmeling-1938........
In my lifetime?-Ali/Frazier 1-1971.....
Agreed.

[Dempsey1238]

I think you guys are forgetting that Ali Fraizer and Louis Schmeling took place in BIG citys. They were going to get a sell out no matter what. But Johnson Jeff took place in a small town. And yet it drew the biggest largest crowd ever at that time(I belive Dempsey Carp surpass it) That fight was news, and it was evey were. Even People in Church were praying for a Jeff win. ete. Yeah it was big for all the WRONG reasons of couse. And the outbreaks in the after math prove it. But that still does not stop it from having a impact on America's socal status. That fight imo should be number 1 in historic impact. If Fraizer lost, there would have been no roit. Same goes for Louis Schemling.

[dav8d777]

I think you guys are forgetting that Ali Fraizer and Louis Schmeling took place in BIG citys. They were going to get a sell out no matter what. But Johnson Jeff took place in a small town. And yet it drew the biggest largest crowd ever at that time(I belive Dempsey Carp surpass it) That fight was news, and it was evey were. Even People in Church were praying for a Jeff win. ete. Yeah it was big for all the WRONG reasons of couse. And the outbreaks in the after math prove it. But that still does not stop it from having a impact on America's socal status. That fight imo should be number 1 in historic impact. If Fraizer lost, there would have been no roit. Same goes for Louis Schemling.

I agree with that. It's really hard to judge the impact of a fight if you were not around to see it. I think the depth of emotion of the Jeffries / Johnson fight probably ran deepest. The Louis Schmeling thing was probably a little overblown. The year was 1938 and we were not at war with Germany at the time.

Ali / Frazier had a strong moral story to it just like Jeffries / Johnson. The moral was that one must not ignore the prevalent mores of the country. If the government says go to Viet Nam, then one should go. As far as not being a Christian... well...

In the end though the Jeffries / Johnson fight tends to top them all in terms of raw emotion. That point was further driven home to me as I read newspaper articles just after the Willard / Johnson fight. There was no subtlety to it. Putting the crown back on the head of a white man was a big priority for the nation.

People talk about whether Dempsey was afraid of Wills... He may have been but if he had let Wills have a fight he would have needed to become afraid of everyone.

The media was not in place to do what we did in the early 70s or today, but I get the feeling that Jeffries / Johnson held more interest and dogged devotion than any fight of the 20th century.

I think it says something for boxing and its fans that whites did not do more to cheat Johnson out of his fights. Of course that is for another day (and yes, I know about the Mann Act so please don't flame me). :admin

Russ