The brown bomber's baptism of fire

[janitor]

We are often guilty of looking at fighters records on boxrec and not analyzing what the number's actualy mean. I will use a well known fighter to demonstrate how the detail is somtimes overlooked.

Joseph Louis Barrow turned profesional on the fourth of July 1934 debuting against Jack Kracken.

For his 5th profesional fight six weeks later he took on Buck Everet 39-16-3. Everet was a tough oponent coming off a win over Don Red Barry.

For his 10th profesional fight four months into his career he took on Stanley Porreda who boasted wins over Primo Carnera, Tommy Loughran and Earnie Schaff. This was followed by fights withLee Ramage and Patsy Peroni who were both big players on the heavyweight scene.

Six months into his career he was ranked at No4 by Ring Magazine.

Eleven months into his profesional career Louis took on the previous heavyweight champion Primo Carnera who had only just been releived of the title by Max Baer.

In his fourteenth month as a profesional fighter he took on the recently dethroned Max Baer who was still regarded as the best heavyweight in the world.

He bloted his copy book by loosing to Max Schmeling but the record reveals two things-

1. He had been inactive for six months before the fight despite having fought on a fortnightly basis prior to that period of inactivity.

2. He had been fighting profesionaly for only a year and eleven months at this point.

It is interesting that following this defeat he chose a former champion in Jack Sharkey for his next fight. This was a bold move given that his confidence must have been badly shaken by the loss.

He took the title from Jimmy Braddock only two years and eleven months after his prfesional debut beating the previous record set by Jim Jeffries.

[Rattler]

We are often guilty of looking at fighters records on boxrec and not analyzing what the number's actualy mean. I will use a well known fighter to demonstrate how the detail is somtimes overlooked.

Joseph Louis Barrows turned profesional on the fourth of July 1934 debuting against Jack Kracken.

For his 5th profesional fight six weeks later he took on Buck Everet 39-16-3. Everet was a tough oponent coming off a win over Don Red Barry.

For his 10th profesional fight four months into his career he took on Stanley Porreda who boasted wins over Primo Carnera, Tommy Loughran and Earnie Schaff. This was followed by fights withLee Ramage and Patsy Peroni who were both big players on the heavyweight scene.

Six months into his career he was ranked at No4 by Ring Magazine.

Eleven months into his profesional career Louis took on the previous heavyweight champion Primo Carnera who had only just been releived of the title by Max Baer.

In his fourteenth month as a profesional fighter he took on the recently dethroned Max Baer who was still regarded as the best heavyweight in the world.

He bloted his copy book by loosing to Max Schmeling but the record reveals two things-

1. He had been inactive for six months before the fight despite having fought on a fortnightly basis prior to that period of inactivity.

2. He had been fighting profesionaly for only a year and eleven months at this point.

It is interesting that following this defeat he chose a former champion in Jack Sharkey for his next fight. This was a bold move given that his confidence must have been badly shaken by the loss.

He took the title from Jimmy Braddock only two years and eleven months after his prfesional debut beating the previous record set by Jim Jeffries.

One small correction - he didn't actually "choose" those fights. He may have wanted them, but they were chosen for him. A lot of his life and career was guided by the consortium that managed him.

[janitor]

One small correction - he didn't actually "choose" those fights. He may have wanted them, but they were chosen for him. A lot of his life and career was guided by the consortium that managed him.

This is partley true but he did somtimes choose his own fights. He took the John Henry Lewis fight against the wishes of his managment team.

[Rattler]

This is partley true but he did somtimes choose his own fights. He took the John Henry Lewis fight against the wishes of his managment team.

Different scenario, janitor.

By then, Joe Louis was already a legend.

The time period you reference in the original thread post, is before all of that. Most of the Louis influenced fight choices, came later in his career when he had more clout of the direction of his own career.

[janitor]

Different scenario, janitor.

By then, Joe Louis was already a legend.

The time period you reference in the original thread post, is before all of that. Most of the Louis influenced fight choices, came later in his career when he had more clout of the direction of his own career.

This is probably true but besides the point.

What I am trying to get across is how quickly he was moved allong.

[Rattler]

This is probably true but besides the point.

What I am trying to get across is how quickly he was moved allong.

Which you did, splendidly.

I was just making a small point that while irrelevant to the thread's original intention, nonetheless has a point of validity - since the original wording could create the assumption that Joe Louis was more willing to challenge himself in an out of the ordinary way, that many other fighters simply didn't have the option of doing - thereby placing Joe Louis on a pedestal that many other fighters could easily belong on too.

Or maybe I'm just being obtuse for a reason?:huh

[janitor]

I was just making a small point that while irrelevant to the thread's original intention, nonetheless has a point of validity - since the original wording could create the assumption that Joe Louis was more willing to challenge himself in an out of the ordinary way, that many other fighters simply didn't have the option of doing -

Louis is an interesting case because he was the first champion who enjoyed financial suport and good managment from his first profesional fight onwards as most do today.

Although this gave him an advantage over many of his contemporaries his backers wanted a return on their investment and wanted it quickly. They therfore moved him on to better known oponents who would draw bigger gates as quickly as they could.

It is quite remarkable that he did not pick up a couple of loses in this period. He certainly had a couple of close calls.

[Rattler]

Louis is an interesting case because he was the first champion who enjoyed financial suport and good managment from his first profesional fight onwards as most do today.

Although this gave him an advantage over many of his contemporaries his backers wanted a return on their investment and wanted it quickly. They therfore moved him on to better known oponents who would draw bigger gates as quickly as they could.

It is quite remarkable that he did not pick up a couple of loses in this period. He certainly had a couple of close calls.

Billy Conn's ego still blames itself for that.:D

[janitor]

:lol:

A bold move to fight Jack Sharkey.

:rofl

How many fighters can you think of who have taken on a former world champion in their first fight after a loss.

Name em

[My dinner with Conteh]

How many fighters can you think of who have taken on a former world champion in their first fight after a loss.

Name em


Ali for a start. :good

[janitor]

Ali for a start. :good

And?

It is not much of a mark against sombody to compare them to Ali.

[janitor]

It's not that he took on an ex-champion. It's that you imply that Sharkey was a serious contender. He wasn't.

You seem to be evading the question rather. Most champions after a knockout loss take on a tomato can next.

While Sharkey was past his best team Louis would have had to treat him as being as dangerous as Schmeling.

[My dinner with Conteh]

And?

It is not much of a mark against sombody to compare them to Ali.


I know. It's good going. Carlos Palomino did also.

[My dinner with Conteh]

You seem to be evading the question rather. Most champions after a knockout loss take on a tomato can next.


The much maligned (by you and others on here) Big George actually took on a Top 3 contender and a former world champ after a KO loss.

[janitor]

The much maligned (by you and others on here) Big George actually took on a Top 3 contender and a former world champ after a KO loss.

He took on Ron Lyle who by this stage had lost to Jerry Quarry, Muhamad Ali and Jimmy Young.

In hindsight it was a dangerous asignment but at the time it might have looked like an easy step back towards contention.

[My dinner with Conteh]

He took on Ron Lyle who by this stage had lost to Jerry Quarry, Muhamad Ali and Jimmy Young.

In hindsight it was a dangerous asignment but at the time it might have looked like an easy step back towards contention.




He was in better shape than Sharkey put it that way.

[Sonny's jab]

Incidentally, I heard Foreman fought a few fights prior to the Lyle fight, but they were billed as "exhibitions".
Not just the 5 man thing in 1975, but a few others in the months before the Lyle fight.
I dont know if they were real fights with real gloves or not.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Yeah, he fought a few 'cans': Charley Polite, Boone Kirkman, etc. Gloves n'all, but just exhibitions.

[janitor]

He was in better shape than Sharkey put it that way.

In practice yes.

Without hindsight Sharkey was a higher risk undertaking.

[JWSoats]

You seem to be evading the question rather. Most champions after a knockout loss take on a tomato can next.

While Sharkey was past his best team Louis would have had to treat him as being as dangerous as Schmeling.


Sharkey had been Schmeling's ring nemesis in the early '30s and they were pretty evenly matched during that time. Even though it had been an unpopular decision, Sharkey had taken the championship from Schmeling in 1932. By 1936 Sharkey was far past his prime but at least in theory was capable of duplicating Schmeling's upset victory. A Louis win over Sharkey would be a major confidence re-builder, whereas a loss to Sharkey would be devastating. It was a bold move, not without risks, and it paid off!

[thistle1]

I always look at Who was Who, these fighters were Good, Very Good and Great fighters in Boxing's Overall Greatest Period!

People forget that and write a lot of these people off just because they don't know about them or give no thought too the particular period in boxing a fighter fought in.

Top men are Top men and in some periods vs others, they were truely amazing. Try fighting Champions, Top Contenders and Fringe Contenders, multiplied by dozens and hundreds of fights every 3, 5 and 6 weeks...

these men are Legend and set in Stone forever more!

[mcvey]

We are often guilty of looking at fighters records on boxrec and not analyzing what the number's actualy mean. I will use a well known fighter to demonstrate how the detail is somtimes overlooked.

Joseph Louis Barrow turned profesional on the fourth of July 1934 debuting against Jack Kracken.

For his 5th profesional fight six weeks later he took on Buck Everet 39-16-3. Everet was a tough oponent coming off a win over Don Red Barry.

For his 10th profesional fight four months into his career he took on Stanley Porreda who boasted wins over Primo Carnera, Tommy Loughran and Earnie Schaff. This was followed by fights withLee Ramage and Patsy Peroni who were both big players on the heavyweight scene.

Six months into his career he was ranked at No4 by Ring Magazine.

Eleven months into his profesional career Louis took on the previous heavyweight champion Primo Carnera who had only just been releived of the title by Max Baer.

In his fourteenth month as a profesional fighter he took on the recently dethroned Max Baer who was still regarded as the best heavyweight in the world.

He bloted his copy book by loosing to Max Schmeling but the record reveals two things-

1. He had been inactive for six months before the fight despite having fought on a fortnightly basis prior to that period of inactivity.

2. He had been fighting profesionaly for only a year and eleven months at this point.

It is interesting that following this defeat he chose a former champion in Jack Sharkey for his next fight. This was a bold move given that his confidence must have been badly shaken by the loss.

He took the title from Jimmy Braddock only two years and eleven months after his prfesional debut beating the previous record set by Jim Jeffries.

Louis was matched unbelievably optimistically,I can think of only one heavyweight champion who was more precocious. Jim Jeffries.