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View Full Version : Bernard Hopkins v Max Baer

McGrain
07-02-2007, 06:17 PM
Under modern rules and 12 rounds.

Let's say Hopkins weights 170-175 at the weigh in and Max around 210.

Who wins and why?
Zakman
07-02-2007, 09:14 PM
Oh come on, Unless Max is getting another BJ in the dressing room, he annihilates Hopkins - and if he is, then maybe it takes him a couple of rounds. Hopkins shots would be lke one of Taurus Sykes "ping pong balls" and Baer's sledgehammer would feel like a bazooka.

Baer KO 30 seconds.
McGrain
07-02-2007, 09:26 PM
This thread is in no way meant to denegrate Baer, more to explore Hopkins generalship and Baer's lack of.

Baer's right could be the deciding factor and it could be early.

But I don't think so.
hopkinsfan07
07-02-2007, 09:50 PM
Hopkins would outbox him all night he has the chin to take what Bear can dish out
McGrain
07-02-2007, 09:56 PM
Hopkins would outbox him all night he has the chin to take what Bear can dish out

Agree he has the potential skill to outbox Baer.

But there may not be a human that has the chin.
Bad_Intentions
07-02-2007, 10:04 PM
Hopkins KO in the 9th
hopkinsfan07
07-02-2007, 10:30 PM
But there may not be a human that has the chin.

Les Kennedy, Johnny Risko (57-38-7), Jim Braddock and a shit load of bums who went to distence with him
Zakman
07-02-2007, 10:33 PM
Hopkins KO in the 9th
You must be joking. Baer had one of the best chins in HW history. He was only counted out ONCE in 84 fights, and that was by choice against ATG Joe Louis, while he was sitting on the canvas completely conscious.

The only way Hopkins knocks out Baer is if he brings a sledgehammer into the ring. And even then, I'd only give it a 50/50 shot!!! Baer had an ANVIL for a chin, nearly as good as Chuvalo!!
Jack
07-02-2007, 10:37 PM
If fighters like Harry Greb could beat capable heavyweights, it's not impossible Hopkins could be a talentless one. I like Baer, but come on, if Hopkins was igger, he wouldn't win a single round. There is a masisve gap in talent which does make this a interesting bout.

I'd go with Baer, but it wouldn't be easy whilst it lasted for him. Hopkins wouldn't have the power to keep Baer away though.
hopkinsfan07
07-02-2007, 10:41 PM
Lou Nova gave him a beatdowns in there 2nd

oh and the one you say with Joe Louis he shouldent of been knocked out even then the bell should of saved him

and the way Nova beat him on the first proves that he has a great chin prob the best
Bad_Intentions
07-02-2007, 10:43 PM
You must be joking. Baer had one of the best chins in HW history. He was only counted out ONCE in 84 fights, and that was by choice against ATG Joe Louis, while he was sitting on the canvas completely conscious.

The only way Hopkins knocks out Baer is if he brings a sledgehammer into the ring. And even then, I'd only give it a 50/50 shot!!! Baer had an ANVIL for a chin, nearly as good as Chuvalo!!lamotta had one of the best chins in boxing history and look what ray robinson did in their last fight.

:-(
McGrain
07-02-2007, 10:48 PM
Les Kennedy, Johnny Risko (57-38-7), Jim Braddock and a shit load of bums who went to distence with him

Of course, for reasons discussed in the Baer thread, his record was patchy.

But i'd submit (without having seen Kennedy or Risko) that these guys got through with defense and movement rather than chin.

You're not calling Braddock a bum are you?
brooklyn1550
07-02-2007, 10:48 PM
No way in HELL does Hopkins KO Max Baer...that's like saying Floyd Mayweather would knock out Marvin Hagler - just not happening. Hopkins has craft, skill, slickness, and ring generalship that would allow him to last a few rounds with Baer in my opinion, but eventually, Max finds the mark and stops him. Hopkins has a great chin, but lets be real: he has never fought past 175 so against heavyweights, there is no telling how his chin would hold up. If this is P4P, Hopkins by UD, but this isn't so I'm going with Baer by stoppage until (if) I see Bernard fight at HW.
McGrain
07-02-2007, 10:49 PM
If fighters like Harry Greb could beat capable heavyweights, it's not impossible Hopkins could be a talentless one. I like Baer, but come on, if Hopkins was igger, he wouldn't win a single round. There is a masisve gap in talent which does make this a interesting bout.

I'd go with Baer, but it wouldn't be easy whilst it lasted for him. Hopkins wouldn't have the power to keep Baer away though.


Good post. Not quite sure as Baer as "talentless" but these were basically my thoughts when I started the thread.
Jack
07-02-2007, 11:12 PM
Good post. Not quite sure as Baer as "talentless" but these were basically my thoughts when I started the thread.
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of double standards. I noticed this in the Hagler thread, about how he would go against Spinks and Patterson, if I remember right. If middlewights like Fitz and greb can win at that weight, why can't Hagler? Especially against naturally small fighters like Spinks and Patterson.

Talentless was harsh, yes. I don't rate him at all as a boxer though. Compared to Hopkins, he is though. Amongst his peers he is, so I'll stick with it :lol:
McGrain
07-02-2007, 11:16 PM
Talentless was harsh, yes. I don't rate him at all as a boxer though. Compared to Hopkins, he is though. Amongst his peers he is, so I'll stick with it :lol:

Well he's not getting a mention in that natural athlete thread put it that way...and if we start a "technically gifted" thread he wouldn't appear in that either.
BOGART
07-02-2007, 11:56 PM
I'm not overly impressed with Baer, sure he did have crushin power and a proven chin, but his boxing ability leaves a bit to be desired. He was good but nothing special to me. Hopkins is a master at his craft, and I'd put him in the top 10 middleweights of all-time. I think he'd do o.k for himself against Baer. I think he wins a few rounds and actually lasts into the mid to late rounds. But sooner or later Baer is going to land something big and eventually stop Hopkins. I really can't see Hopkins standing up to a big punching heavyweight like Baer. The difference in skill makes this fight interesting but the difference in size makes the outcome a Baer ko.
Seamus
07-03-2007, 12:38 AM
Bullshit about Baer not be a physically gifted athlete! That guy was considered the specimen of athletic prowess in his time. A great boxer, no. But a gifted puncher, one of the very best.

And of yeah, Baer KO's Hopkins in 5.
McGrain
07-03-2007, 10:49 AM
Bullshit about Baer not be a physically gifted athlete.

Well I didn't actually go that far.

More a suggestion that he doesn't immediatley spring to mind as being a natural athlete, and probably won't get a mention in that thread.
janitor
07-03-2007, 10:56 AM
he has the chin to take what Bear can dish out

The guy has never fought above light heavyweight yet you are confident that he can take the punches of possibly the hardest punching heavyweight in history?
janitor
07-03-2007, 10:58 AM
Les Kennedy, Johnny Risko (57-38-7), Jim Braddock and a shit load of bums who went to distence with him

If you are calling Johny Risko and Jimmy Braddock bums then you need to learn more about the era.
hopkinsfan07
07-03-2007, 01:57 PM
I never called him a bum

Read it again i said a shit load of bums who went to distence with him sepperating the first 3 from the rest



id of said and aload of other bums if i was grouping them together
BUDW
12-02-2007, 10:59 PM
Max ko in 8, no way Hop could stand up to max power if Max was at his best.
JohnThomas1
12-03-2007, 02:31 AM
Especially against naturally small fighters like Spinks and Patterson.


Spinks naturally small? Surely you jest.
red cobra
12-03-2007, 06:47 AM
[quote=hopkinsfan07]Hopkins would outbox him all night he has the chin to take what Bear can dish out[/qu
hopkinsfan07, you are new to boxing aren't you? It's either that or you're delusional. Max Baer, though not one of the skilled heavyweights in history compared to others, was a murderous hitter, and one, just one of his punches would have landed on Hopkin's chin, and the birdies would sing for Bernard. He would think he was hit by a truck.
Minotauro
12-03-2007, 02:44 PM
I don't feel Hopkins has the foot speed to beat Baer for a guy as small as Bernard to win he needs to hit and run like Loughran. But don't feel he would be able to and remember Mercado have Hopkins hurt and down and Baer hits much, much harder.
Maxmomer
12-03-2007, 03:03 PM
lamotta had one of the best chins in boxing history and look what ray robinson did in their last fight.

:-(

That is just a horrible comparison. The more I think about it the dumber it gets. Wow. Dude. That was awful.
teeto
12-03-2007, 03:03 PM
Hopkins has a great chin , but not happening against Baer.
Maxmomer
12-03-2007, 03:04 PM
I'd say Hopkins has a chance or outboxing Baer and lasting the distance to get a decision, but that chance is small. I'm pretty sure Baer would land something sooner or later and get Hopkins out of there, probably late.
teeto
12-03-2007, 03:10 PM
I'd say Hopkins has a chance or outboxing Baer and lasting the distance to get a decision, but that chance is small. I'm pretty sure Baer would land something sooner or later and get Hopkins out of there, probably late.
I agree, there is no doubting the greatness of Hopkins , but if Max was focused then he would probably overwhelm him after a bit
Sonny's jab
12-03-2007, 04:24 PM
If Max turns up to fight he's probably going to KILL Hopkins.

Of course if he turns up to pose and clown he might get outpointed.

But seriously we have to consider them both ON THEIR BEST NIGHTS.

And Baer at his best would just mow Hopkins down, destroy him, perhaps kill him.

Baer's ridiculously under-rated here. Sure he could stink a joint out, play just for laughs and his technique was crude. But he was a MONSTER, raw power, a good athlete and a granite head.

If Hopkins can beat guys like that why's he been fighting for peanuts in the MIDDLEWEIGHT division for all those years ?
You hear him calling out Sam Peter, Lamon Brewster and David Tua ? I dont.
cuchulain
12-03-2007, 08:49 PM
Under modern rules and 12 rounds.

Let's say Hopkins weights 170-175 at the weigh in and Max around 210.

Who wins and why?

Posts like this will erode your credibility.

This is even wilder than Senya having RJJ over a prime Ali
and

CHJ having Joe over Rocky.
Maxmomer
12-03-2007, 09:34 PM
Posts like this will erode your credibility.

This is even wilder than Senya having RJJ over a prime Ali
and

CHJ having Joe over Rocky.

He's not sayong Hopkins would beat him.
red cobra
12-04-2007, 06:30 AM
He would not have intended to, but Max Baer may have very well killed Hopkins, at the very least, he would have, if he didn't hold back, knock Bernard clean out of the ring with the force of a right hand landing flush. Against a much smaller man, Max may have clowned around a bit, and not tried to behead his man.
McGrain
12-04-2007, 07:43 AM
Posts like this will erode your credibility.

This is even wilder than Senya having RJJ over a prime Ali
and

CHJ having Joe over Rocky.

Calm yourself. A fantasy match up doesn't have to be about an agenda. I was interested, at the time I opened this thread (some time ago) in perceptions of Hopkins ring generalship and in perceptions of Max Baer's lack of ring genership; and how power and punching might re-dress that balance.

Please read the thread before attacking my credibility. There is a shorter version of this post in post 3.
McGrain
12-04-2007, 07:45 AM
If Hopkins can beat guys like that why's he been fighting for peanuts in the MIDDLEWEIGHT division for all those years ?
You hear him calling out Sam Peter, Lamon Brewster and David Tua ? I dont.

At the time I opened this thread, yes, Hopkins was calling out Maskaev.
ChrisPontius
12-04-2007, 08:30 AM
Hopkins calls out everyone. Then he demands a ridiculous amount of the money and prices himself out. Action speaks louder than words. Look at his resume, the best fighters were welterweights like De La Hoya and Trinidad. He priced himself out of a Jones-rematch. He made Calzaghe an offer in 2002 which was pretty bad for Joe, but he took it, and a day later, Hopkins "declined" his own offer and wanted more money.

Of course, Hagler and Monzon also have their best wins against smaller guys.
Sonny's jab
12-04-2007, 08:54 AM
At the time I opened this thread, yes, Hopkins was calling out Maskaev.

I'm not sure Maskaev's power compares to that of Baer though.
I dont think Hopkins has ever called out a young "live" monstrous punching heavyweight like Baer, or even the guys I mentioned (when they were still good). I might be wrong.

Anyway, I dont deny that Hopkins may be able to outbox some decent big guys. And if Baer comes to loaf around I could see Hopkins doing a Braddock.

But a semi-serious young Maxie Baer would kill him.The fighter that massacred Schmeling against ANY version of Hopkins you choose, it's a mismatch.
McGrain
12-04-2007, 08:56 AM
I'm not sure Maskaev's power compares to that of Baer though.

No no, I don't think so. It was just an answer to your question about Hopkins and why he was being put in with a HW.
enquirer
12-04-2007, 09:49 AM
I would say monzons' best wins were against valdez and briscoe,both natural middles....Even griffith grew into a proper middle,only napoles was smaller,and he was the no1 p4p in the sport at the time and an atg....
Senya13
12-05-2007, 02:30 AM
Why Maskaev's power could not be compared with Baer's, may I ask? Baer actually reminds me of Vladimir Virchis of modern heavyweights.
cuchulain
12-06-2007, 01:41 AM
Calm yourself. A fantasy match up doesn't have to be about an agenda. I was interested, at the time I opened this thread (some time ago) in perceptions of Hopkins ring generalship and in perceptions of Max Baer's lack of ring genership; and how power and punching might re-dress that balance.

Please read the thread before attacking my credibility. There is a shorter version of this post in post 3.

I'm NOT attacking it. Just pointing out that the mere thought of BHop having a chance here is a bit off the wall.

I find you a credible poster, usually with something sensible to say.