Max Baer is a Boxing God - Worhsip Him!!

[Zakman]

Easily top five in HW chins and top five in punching power too. IF Max took boxing seriously he would have been a top ten ATG, no doubt. Dempsey thought so - but Baer's laicisdaisical training habits, love of the nightlife and the ladies frustrated Jack no end.

Baer said it all when he said he had "a million dollar body and a ten cent brain." Still, even with that ten cent brain he was able to do pretty well on ABILITY ALONE.

Baer is - obviously - my favorite Old Time HW. ANd part of it is his "madcap" personaility. BUt what if Baer had, say George Foreman or Sonny Liston's brain. Would he have ruled the 30s and given Joe Louis a serious run for his money??

[ibragimovfan]

Cinderella Man Whipped His Ass!

[salsanchezfan]

The thing is, had he taken his trade more seriously, trained harder, been more serious...........he wouldn't have been as memorable. He was what he was supposed to be.

[McGrain]

Braddock did indeed whip his ass.

I think Baer is generally underated. As far as his mentality goes, he was definitely hurt by it, but you got to love him. Anyone seen the footage of him "training" by building sandcastles? Classic.

I do think Baer was made for Louis in terms of his style. If you're talking about changing his mentality as regards training, then it would be benificial, but not as far as the Louis fight goes - if you want to change his fighting mentality, that may even hurt him more than help.

Baer adds to the tapestry of boxing history - I like him just the way he is.

[Bad_Intentions]

i wouldn't consider someone who never took boxing serious and did anything else but clown all the time a "Boxing God"

but i have to agree, he was one hella puncher.

[salsanchezfan]

How can you not love Maxie? A clown literally to his final breath.


There is the story of him in a hotel room at the end of his life when he had a heart attack and called the front desk for help. They said they'd send up the house doctor.

"No, dummy," he said, "I need a people doctor!"

[McGrain]

"No, dummy," he said, "I need a people doctor!"

:lol:

I believe it.

And nobody better say it wasn't true!

[younghypnotiq]

anyone realize something(no racism) alot of the famous jew boxers are like this. Zab and baer?

[Zakman]

Baer was only like a quarter Jewish, and was raised as a Jew. The Star of David thing on his trunks was his maanger's idea - ehtnic marketing was REAL big in boxing in the thirties.

[younghypnotiq]

yah i know that and hitler hated him lol. but it was something i just noticed

[UpWithEvil]

As far as his mentality goes, he was definitely hurt by it, but you got to love him. Anyone seen the footage of him "training" by building sandcastles? Classic.

Hey, that builds your wrists!

[robert ungurean]

Can u picture Baer with lets say Fraziers heart,work ethis & determination.
That would be some fighter indeed.

[Zakman]

i wouldn't consider someone who never took boxing serious and did anything else but clown all the time a "Boxing God"

but i have to agree, he was one hella puncher.

The title was something of a joke, kind of in the Baer spirit. But I really do believe that Baer, along with Riddick Bowe, is probably the biggest under-achiever among HW champs. If he had applied himself, they would be talking about the Louis/Baer era in the 30s. There is little doubt in my mind that Baer would have been Louis's main rival and they probably would've had a hell of a trilogy!!!

But like others have said, if that were the case, Max wouldn't be Max - and as a big Baer fan, I know that's one of the things I like about him. He was unique. Just didn't have the mentality for boxing though.

[ibragimovfan]

cinderella man the movie made him seem like an asshole i dont know if it was a fair representation or not

[hopkinsfan07]

cinderella man the movie made him seem like an asshole i dont know if it was a fair representation or not

it wasent he was a ok bloke really

[McGrain]

cinderella man the movie made him seem like an asshole i dont know if it was a fair representation or not


It was a disgusting representation.

According to what i've read, Baer was deeply troubled about the injuries he caused in the ring, some say he was never the same fighter again.

[Zakman]

cinderella man the movie made him seem like an asshole i dont know if it was a fair representation or not

Dude, it was an utter bullshit representation. Read Jeremy Shaap's book Cinderella Man, it shows the real Baer. He was extremely remorceful about killing Frankie Campbell. I believe he paid for his kid to go to college. And that scene where he makes leering comments to Braddock's wife - completely made up. I've read just about anything about Baer there is to read and other than the womanizing and his love of the nightlife, it's virtually ALL bullshit.

Actually, they appear to have based the Baer character on a character HE played in a movie which was a Primo Carnera biopic. I believe it's called The Harder They Fall. Utter fiction - and SLANDER to Baer's rep, imo. His son - y'know, Jethro - was deservedly PO'd about how they portrayed his father.

[McGrain]

Can u picture Baer with lets say Fraziers heart,work ethis & determination.
That would be some fighter indeed.


Yes you're right - although those attributes as they displayed themselves in Frazier are about as rare as Liston's jab.

[salsanchezfan]

cinderella man the movie made him seem like an asshole i dont know if it was a fair representation or not


............They were so off-base about him in that film it was ridiculous, but from a purely film-making standpoint, I can see the need for a villain in that role. I don't think it was needed, frankly, as the villain was aptly played by circumstance, but this made it easier for the public as a whole to digest.

[hopkinsfan07]

Baer's son

My father cried about what happened to Frankie Campbell. He had nightmares. "In reality, my father was one of the kindest, gentlest men you would ever hope to meet. He treated boxing the way today's professional wrestlers do wrestling: part sport, mostly showmanship. He never deliberately hurt anyone." He helped put Frankie's children through college

[brooklyn1550]

Massive puncher, iron chin...never really reached his potential and was never fully dedicated to the sport. I have him outside the top 20, or just inside of it, depending on what day you talk to me.

[Bad_Intentions]

Massive puncher, iron chin...never really reached his potential and was never fully dedicated to the sport. I have him outside the top 20, or just inside of it, depending on what day you talk to me.:rofl

[brooklyn1550]

:rofl

Well, my list changes all the time...I'm always switching it up and moving guys up and down.

[hopkinsfan07]

Well, my list changes all the time...I'm always switching it up and moving guys up and down.

yea same my top 5 stay the same most the time but 6-20 change alot

[Zakman]

Massive puncher, iron chin...never really reached his potential and was never fully dedicated to the sport. I have him outside the top 20, or just inside of it, depending on what day you talk to me.

Right on the money. Baer didn't fullfull his potential, but his ability should not be questioned. The guy had an IRON chin - he was only counted out once, against the great Joe Louis and that was by choice. He could have gotten up, but said something to the effect "the fans paid to see a boxing match, not an execution."

He was one of the hardest hitters in HW history, and deserves to rank in the top five in both punching power AND chin. And he didn't even really apply himself - that's says something for how good he really was.

[salsanchezfan]

Dude, it was an utter bullshit representation. Read Jeremy Shaap's book Cinderella Man, it shows the real Baer. He was extremely remorceful about killing Frankie Campbell. I believe he paid for his kid to go to college. And that scene where he makes leering comments to Braddock's wife - completely made up. I've read just about anything about Baer there is to read and other than the womanizing and his love of the nightlife, it's virtually ALL bullshit.

Actually, they appear to have based the Baer character on a character HE played in a movie which was a Primo Carnera biopic. I believe it's called The Harder They Fall. Utter fiction - and SLANDER to Baer's rep, imo. His son - y'know, Jethro - was deservedly PO'd about how they portrayed his father.


............Schaap did a tremendous job with that book. One of the best I've read, and from what I understand, his maiden voyage as an author. Not a bad way to start. Must reading for any boxing fan.

[Marnoff]

cinderella man the movie made him seem like an asshole i dont know if it was a fair representation or not

They portrayed him that way to give the main character someone to shine against.

[Zakman]

............Schaap did a tremendous job with that book. One of the best I've read, and from what I understand, his maiden voyage as an author. Not a bad way to start. Must reading for any boxing fan.

It's an absolutely great book, and one that is quite unique in that it gives solid bios of two overlooked fighters today. Fans today don't realize what an upset the Braddock-Baer fight was - it was that generation's Douglas-Tyson. Boxing fans and experts expected Baer to rule the HW division for a long time.

[salsanchezfan]

It's an absolutely great book, and one that is quite unique in that it gives solid bios of two overlooked fighters today. Fans today don't realize what an upset the Braddock-Baer fight was - it was that generation's Douglas-Tyson. Boxing fans and experts expected Baer to rule the HW division for a long time.


...........That was indeed an enormous thing at the time. An absolutely huge upset, very much on the Douglas-Tyson level. It would be talked about to death today, in this age of instant media, but whatever.

I'm frankly okay with Howard portraying Baer as he did, if only because it brought this amazing (and amazingly forgotten) story to the public conscience again. It's an incredible story, and one that deserves remembering.

[Zakman]

...........That was indeed an enormous thing at the time. An absolutely huge upset, very much on the Douglas-Tyson level. It would be talked about to death today, in this age of instant media, but whatever.

I'm frankly okay with Howard portraying Baer as he did, if only because it brought this amazing (and amazingly forgotten) story to the public conscience again. It's an incredible story, and one that deserves remembering.

I went and saw the movie myself, and truthfully, other than that really tasteless scene where the Baer character intimates he'll screw Braddock's wife after he kills him I wasn't horribly outraged. THAT I thought was really over the top - they could have established Baer as the "villan" without that sort of tasteless crap. Distorting the Campbell and Shaff fights were enough.

You know what though - I suspect Baer himself would've understood it. He was a Hollywood guy and knew that movies were fantasy. Truthfully, it's only boxing fans, and diehard Baer fans like myself, who REALLY care. And Baer, Jr. of course - who I do feel bad for. He's a REAL weird dude y'know - quite a character just like Dad.

[ChrisPontius]

While better dedication would certainly have helped him, i don't think he had THAT much potential.

You don't go 50 fights many of which go 10 rounds or more without learning a thing or two about boxing technique and skill. I think he simply couldn't be much better, outside of stopping clowning. Some people are crude and will always be, simple as that.
Yes he has an iron chin and a huge punch, but so does Samuel Peter. Both will be crude punchers no matter how much they train.

Same with Bowe. All the dedication in the world wouldn't have stopped him from have a leaky defense where even journeymen had 50% connect percentage on; no wonder his career was so short. Not to mention the complete lack of a straight right hand which is the key to beat Lennox Lewis.

[janitor]

While better dedication would certainly have helped him, i don't think he had THAT much potential.

You don't go 50 fights many of which go 10 rounds or more without learning a thing or two about boxing technique and skill. I think he simply couldn't be much better, outside of stopping clowning.

Baer was a slugger pure and simple who won by beating his oponents down. The one thing that a fighter like Baer cannot aford to loose is killer instinct.

He was verry consistent untill he killed Frankie Campbel and it was this event that caused him to become an inconsistent fighter.

A good example of what he had the potential to be is the Schmeling fight. Here was the best defensive counterpuncher in the division at the time and Baer still beat him down in the end.

Still I do not feel ready to worship him yet.

[Sizzle]

Joe Louis destroyed him, in a fight he claimed to be "in the best shape of his life" for.

He was virtually murdered by the "modern" fast combination-punching style he came up against.

He had a powerful right hand but it was dreadfully slow and telegraphed, and this was further highlighted when he came up against a sharp, accurate puncher like Joe Louis.

He lost to the title to the least-skilled heavyweight champion we've ever had, a battling upright offbalance slugger who telegraphed his shots and had lost a bucketload of bouts to journeymen. I hate to say it because I was touched by his movie and his story, but this is how I see it.

His defense was virtually non-existent and his hands were held way too low, which I guess he could get away with in his era, but not when he met a heavyweight that could throw fast, sharp effective blows.

What was his best win? Carnera?

[janitor]

[quote=Sizzle]Joe Louis destroyed him, in a fight he claimed to be "in the best shape of his life" for.

He was virtually murdered by the "modern" fast combination-punching style he came up against.


In fairness Louis did the same to to a lot of verry good boxers.


He lost to the title to the least-skilled heavyweight champion we've ever had, a battling upright offbalance slugger who telegraphed his shots and had lost a bucketload of bouts to journeymen. I hate to say it because I was touched by his movie and his story, but this is how I see it.


The traditional story is that Baer lost to Braddock because he clowned through the fight and trained on women and champagne.

Recent research puts foerward another explanation. Baer claimed that he broke his right hand in the third round and that he broke his left hand in the fith. This would have left him virtualy helpless for the last ten rounds. Post fight medical reports confirm that Baer did indeed break both hands.


His defense was virtually non-existent and his hands were held way too low, which I guess he could get away with in his era, but not when he met a heavyweight that could throw fast, sharp effective blows.


There were heavyweights that could do that hiding behind every bush in Max Baers era. There were probably a lot more technicaly proficient heavyweights than there are today.

He got away with it because he had a style that worked.


What was his best win? Carnera?


Schmeling.

[UpWithEvil]

He lost to the title to the least-skilled heavyweight champion we've ever had

John Ruiz?

[MachineGunMitch]

yes the movie made him into a bully and a creap which he wasent,,,,,
but every movie needs a bad guy I guess,Ron Howard also did not use the star of david as max did
Good movie for entertainment but FAR from accurate..I heard Max was really a good guy,funny and personable

[Sizzle]

[quote]


In fairness Louis did the same to to a lot of verry good boxers.



The traditional story is that Baer lost to Braddock because he clowned through the fight and trained on women and champagne.

Recent research puts foerward another explanation. Baer claimed that he broke his right hand in the third round and that he broke his left hand in the fith. This would have left him virtualy helpless for the last ten rounds. Post fight medical reports confirm that Baer did indeed break both hands.



There were heavyweights that could do that hiding behind every bush in Max Baers era. There were probably a lot more technicaly proficient heavyweights than there are today.

He got away with it because he had a style that worked.



Schmeling.

To be honest with you, it seems to me Joe Louis' excellent sharp combination punching was somewhat pioneering - Here was a 200lbs man destroying men left right and centre, many of whom outweighed him considerably. I know I don't need to tell you what Louis accomplished.

I find it hard to believe that there were heavyweights hiding behind every bush that could put punches together like Lewis. Certainly the top tier fighters I've watched for myself, Baer, Braddock, Galento etc tended to throw heavy shots, but delivered with abysmal handspeed, predictable clubbing combinations (Not the beautiful leading jab-hook we saw from Louis in that clip posted the other week) and worst of all not delivered in any sort of sharp, concise manner (very telegraphed).

Dempsey was a truly explosive puncher with concrete in both hands and very impressive handspeed, but he did not put his punches together like Joe Louis.

Anyway, my point is merely that Baer is one of the weaker heavyweight champions, and that he was limited in the sense that he was never going to be able to beat Joe Louis, no matter how hard he trained. I don't he ever would have been a top10 heavyweight, but that's my opinion. I appreciate what he accomplished, but I don't see that fighter being particularly successful in the modern heavyweight circuit.

[janitor]

[quote=Sizzle]
To be honest with you, it seems to me Joe Louis' excellent sharp combination punching was somewhat pioneering - Here was a 200lbs man destroying men left right and centre, many of whom outweighed him considerably. I know I don't need to tell you what Louis accomplished.


I have never been sold on the idea of Louis being a pioneer. He merely did what others had done before with greater athletic talent.

Once in a blue moon you get a heavyweight who can move like a welterweight such as Ali or Tyson and Louis is a similar athletic talent as indeed was Dempsey in my opinion.

I find it hard to believe that there were heavyweights hiding behind every bush that could put punches together like Lewis.

Sure there were. It is just that most of them were comparatively light punchers.

Certainly the top tier fighters I've watched for myself, Baer, Braddock, Galento etc

These might not be the best examples to showcase the technical talent of the era. Just because John Ruiz has poor technique dose not mean that Floyd Mayweather is a stand alone pioneer.

Anyway, my point is merely that Baer is one of the weaker heavyweight champions, and that he was limited in the sense that he was never going to be able to beat Joe Louis, no matter how hard he trained.

No argument from me here.

[janitor]

I don't see that fighter being particularly successful in the modern heavyweight circuit.

Who do you see aresting his rise to the top?

[RAMPAGE0017]

People actually think Braddock whooped Baer's ass? It looked to me like Baer handed him the title on a silver platter. No disrespect to either fighter, but it was an awfully boring fight, only thing that made it watchable was Baer's clowning around.


Other than that, Baer was a dangerous fighter, but way too limited. I don't think he would've beaten Louis even if he 100% into boxing. Baer's only real weapon was his right hand, his defense wasn't all that, and he looks like he fought straight up a lot. I've never seen him bend his knees, or really get any of his weight on the ground.

[Zakman]

John Ruiz?

Obviously, we're talking linear here. But if belholders were included, Ruiz EASILY takes those "honors.":yep

[JIm Broughton]

If Baer had a good jab then he could have turned out to be an ATG. He had all the physical tools but the wrong style. At 6'3" with an 80" reach, he should've employed a good stiff jab to set up his potent right hand instead of stalking and throwing a telegraphed right hand. If he was around today with say Emmanuel Steward as his trainer then you're looking at an ATG in the making because he would be fighting with a more modern style.

[janitor]

If Baer had a good jab then he could have turned out to be an ATG. He had all the physical tools but the wrong style. At 6'3" with an 80" reach, he should've employed a good stiff jab to set up his potent right hand instead of stalking and throwing a telegraphed right hand. If he was around today with say Emmanuel Steward as his trainer then you're looking at an ATG in the making because he would be fighting with a more modern style.

Baers jab wasn't bad actualy.

[The Whaler]

............They were so off-base about him in that film it was ridiculous, but from a purely film-making standpoint, I can see the need for a villain in that role. I don't think it was needed, frankly, as the villain was aptly played by circumstance, but this made it easier for the public as a whole to digest.
Ron Howard is sort of a hack, so he turned Baer into a psycho killer. In fact, if Cinderella Man was a fictional script instead of being based on a true story, it would be pretty cheesy. It goes to show how incredible a person Braddock was, and how compelling a life he led.

[The Whaler]

How can you not love Maxie? A clown literally to his final breath.


There is the story of him in a hotel room at the end of his life when he had a heart attack and called the front desk for help. They said they'd send up the house doctor.

"No, dummy," he said, "I need a people doctor!"

What's so funny about that? People are not houses.

[Grebfan9]

Hi Zakman,

There are THREE areas of boxing that Baer often neglected.

First, though he had a hard jab (as evidenced in the Schmeling
fight), I don't feel that he utilized his jab enough. If he jabbed
more, he would have been able to set up his right hand and
land with greater frequency.

Second, Baer should have punched to the body more often.
Against boxers like Tommy Loughran, body punching would
have improved Baer's chances greatly.

Baer did employ a VERY EFFECTIVE body punching attack in his
pier brawl with Tony Galento. Baer put a heavy hurt on Two-Ton
Tony with some really hard punches to the body.

Third, Baer could have tightened up his defense a bit. True,
Baer had a very good chin, but if he had a better defense, he
may not have gotten cut up and TKOED in his 1st fight with
Lou Nova.

As stated, Baer did, at times, display an excellent jab as well as
a crunching body attack. If he combined these with a better
defense, with greater concentration on his training, Baer would
have been more feared than Sonny Liston!!!


Grebfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])


Easily top five in HW chins and top five in punching power too. IF Max took boxing seriously he would have been a top ten ATG, no doubt. Dempsey thought so - but Baer's laicisdaisical training habits, love of the nightlife and the ladies frustrated Jack no end.

Baer said it all when he said he had "a million dollar body and a ten cent brain." Still, even with that ten cent brain he was able to do pretty well on ABILITY ALONE.

Baer is - obviously - my favorite Old Time HW. ANd part of it is his "madcap" personaility. BUt what if Baer had, say George Foreman or Sonny Liston's brain. Would he have ruled the 30s and given Joe Louis a serious run for his money??

[Zakman]

Hi Zakman,

There are THREE areas of boxing that Baer often neglected.

First, though he had a hard jab (as evidenced in the Schmeling
fight), I don't feel that he utilized his jab enough. If he jabbed
more, he would have been able to set up his right hand and
land with greater frequency.

Second, Baer should have punched to the body more often.
Against boxers like Tommy Loughran, body punching would
have improved Baer's chances greatly.

Baer did employ a VERY EFFECTIVE body punching attack in his
pier brawl with Tony Galento. Baer put a heavy hurt on Two-Ton
Tony with some really hard punches to the body.

Third, Baer could have tightened up his defense a bit. True,
Baer had a very good chin, but if he had a better defense, he
may not have gotten cut up and TKOED in his 1st fight with
Lou Nova.

As stated, Baer did, at times, display an excellent jab as well as
a crunching body attack. If he combined these with a better
defense, with greater concentration on his training, Baer would
have been more feared than Sonny Liston!!!


Grebfan9
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Thanks for the input - I agree on all counts. Nice to see that there are fans who are that familiar with Baer and his career.

I'm not arguing Baer was anything more than what he was, a guy with a LOT of talent, who never really fullfilled his potential. In fact, I think your comparision with Liston is quite apt. If Baer applied himself, I think he would have dominated the period between Tunney and Louis, and in fact, been Louis's major rival. Sadly, it wasn't meant to be.