Hear me out for a minute: Floyd would beat Sugar Ray Robinson

[G_RapPBF]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

[saul_ir34]

HMMM NO stop writting on this forums....

[acb]

Power: SRR
Speed: SRR
Defense: PBF
Footwork: Wash
Chin: SRR

On top of that SRR threw every punch in the book better than Floyd. His left hook was perfect. His command of range equally perfect. His chin was rock solid.

Floyd is a great fighter, but he doesnt beat Robinson. I suggest you watch Robinson.

[Scar]

Floyd wont'/can't beat Robinson, please don't take it THIS far. :patsch

[acb]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.



Oh, and I forgot to mention, Geogre Foreman standing toe to toe with the best heavies in the 90's, and Cus telling Tyson he would fare well against him. And remember, he was a prehistoric fighter from the 70's.

[BITCH ASS]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

I think you have to analyze their styles before you can come to this kind of conclusion.

You also have to put it into perspective, that athletes have become bigger, and stronger, but what difference does that make when there are weight classes?

I could understand your argument in regards to heavyweights, and maybe if they were competing in track, but other than that, this makes no sense.

If you were to say, I think Mayweather would be able to beat Robinson because Robinson had trouble with guys that had a stiff jab and a lot of movement, I might be slightly inclined to agree with at least part of your statement.

In the end though, I still gotta go with SRR.

[FRKO]

This thread has to be a joke? I, for one, cannot take this kind of stuff seriously, so I assume the thread poster was kidding.

[G_RapPBF]

Power: SRR
Speed: SRR
Defense: PBF
Footwork: Wash
Chin: SRR

On top of that SRR threw every punch in the book better than Floyd. His left hook was perfect. His command of range equally perfect. His chin was rock solid.

Floyd is a great fighter, but he doesnt beat Robinson. I suggest you watch Robinson.

Power: SRR
Speed: PBF
Defense: PBF
Footwork: SRR
Chin: toss up

I've wathced Sugar Ray and if you watch Lamotta vs Sugar Ray 1 you will see Lamotta catching him with 2 and even 3 straight left hand jabs in a row. That a fighter like Mayweather would counter punch to pieces. Mayweather wakes up in the morning wishing someone would throw 3 straight left hand jabs in a row at him.

Why is it so hard to believe. There is no doubt that the worst NFL team today would destroy the best NFL team 50 years ago. Why is it any different in boxing. Not saying Sugar Ray would get destroyed by anyone because he was obviously about 20 years ahead of his time in athletic ability, but come on.

[acb]

Power: SRR
Speed: PBF
Defense: PBF
Footwork: SRR
Chin: toss up

I've wathced Sugar Ray and if you watch Lamotta vs Sugar Ray 1 you will see Lamotta catching him with 2 and even 3 straight left hand jabs in a row. That a fighter like Mayweather would counter punch to pieces. Mayweather wakes up in the morning wishing someone would throw 3 straight left hand jabs in a row at him.

Why is it so hard to believe. There is no doubt that the worst NFL team today would destroy the best NFL team 50 years ago. Why is it any different in boxing. Not saying Sugar Ray would get destroyed by anyone because he was obviously about 20 years ahead of his time in athletic ability, but come on.


If you think that their chins are a wash, you havent watched Robinson.

[G_RapPBF]

I think you have to analyze their styles before you can come to this kind of conclusion.

You also have to put it into perspective, that athletes have become bigger, and stronger, but what difference does that make when there are weight classes?

I could understand your argument in regards to heavyweights, and maybe if they were competing in track, but other than that, this makes no sense.

If you were to say, I think Mayweather would be able to beat Robinson because Robinson had trouble with guys that had a stiff jab and a lot of movement, I might be slightly inclined to agree with at least part of your statement.

In the end though, I still gotta go with SRR.

Well atleast someone wants to put up a decent argument.

I dont understand why we cant question older fighters stacking up today. I mean you think Wilt Chamberlain would average 50 points a game in the NBA today? Hell no. He wouldnt be posting up against 5'11 white guys like 40 years ago.

So why would boxing be different?

[FRKO]

Older fighters stacking up? I'd love to see some of today's fighters against Marciano.

[DaveyScan]

That's because Lamotta would beat Mayweather.

Lamotta was a beast.

[G_RapPBF]

If you think that their chins are a wash, you havent watched Robinson.

Floyds never been dropped, he's never been hurt. So I dont know how you could make that distinction.

[G_RapPBF]

That's because Lamotta would beat Mayweather.

Lamotta was a beast.

Lamotta comes in throwing off balance straight left jabs at Mayweather and he get two pieced so fast he wouldnt know what hit him.

Come on lets get serious for a moment.

[Marnoff]

It is not unreasonable to suggest Mayweather could beat Robinson. Not for the reasons suggested in this thread, really, but it's very possible. Robinson was naturally much bigger, but there's no denying what Floyd brings to the table either.

[acb]

That's because Lamotta would beat Mayweather.

Lamotta was a beast.

Lamotta wouldnt beat Mayweather, but by the same token fans today dont appreciate Lamotta enough. He was a beast in the ring, one of the greatest chins ever, big for his weight class, outweighing Robinson when they met.

Imagine a chin better than Baldomir's, with more skill, better preasure, and you have something like Lamotta.

[Jinx]

from the footage i've seen of SRR he looks bigger, faster, stronger, and more athletic than PBF....PBF's technical ability maybe more advanced, but it won't be enough to overcome all the physical advantages SRR has over him....

[Marnoff]

If you think that their chins are a wash, you havent watched Robinson.

We've never seen Floyd knocked out either, so you can't reasonably be picking Robinson over him, as I see it.

[Asterion]

Floyd can't beat Robinson.

Put Floyd against anyone at 130...Saddler, Arguello...but not against all time greats at 147.

[G_RapPBF]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Geogre Foreman standing toe to toe with the best heavies in the 90's, and Cus telling Tyson he would fare well against him. And remember, he was a prehistoric fighter from the 70's.

Please. Journeyman Alex Stewart beat the piss out of Foreman, he won the belt on a lucky shot. Foreman survived on his lumbering size. Not the point im trying to make and not nearly the generational gap between Floyd and Sugar ray.

[acb]

Lamotta comes in throwing off balance straight left jabs at Mayweather and he get two pieced so fast he wouldnt know what hit him.

Come on lets get serious for a moment.

Yet, Robinson hit much harder than Mayweather, and couldnt put the man down with his arsenal. But Mayweather two "pieces" him? Clarify.

[acb]

Please. Journeyman Alex Stewart beat the piss out of Foreman, he won the belt on a lucky shot. Foreman survived on his lumbering size. Not the point im trying to make and not nearly the generational gap between Floyd and Sugar ray.

Do you any observational skills? Have you watched Robinson? What does Floyd do that gives him the win?

Oh, and are you aware that Robinson's best years are not on film and that your watching an inferior version?

[G_RapPBF]

from the footage i've seen of SRR he looks bigger, faster, stronger, and more athletic than PBF....PBF's technical ability maybe more advanced, but it won't be enough to overcome all the physical advantages SRR has over him....

He was 20 years ahead of his time in ability. He looks fast because he's fighting much slower fighters.

[Shaolin Box]

If you think that their chins are a wash, you havent watched Robinson.

Speaking of chins, have you seen PBF get hurt? didnt think so. So how can you say SRR had a better chin when PBF hasnt been tested.

[G_RapPBF]

Yet, Robinson hit much harder than Mayweather, and couldnt put the man down with his arsenal. But Mayweather two "pieces" him? Clarify.

Do you know what a 2 piece is? A 2 hit combination. He throws that double left jab at Floyd and he gets massacred simply as. He was totally off balance, Floyd would have caught him with a similar check hook that took out Hatton.

Off balance leaning to his left. Thats just asking to be countered.

[DaveyScan]

He was 20 years ahead of his time in ability. He looks fast because he's fighting much slower fighters.

He looks fast even when the footage is in slow-motion. Robison was prolly the fastest guy above 126 I've ever seen on tape.

[G_RapPBF]

Do you any observational skills? Have you watched Robinson? What does Floyd do that gives him the win?

Oh, and are you aware that Robinson's best years are not on film and that your watching an inferior version?

I told you, if Jake Lamotta can catch him with straight left leads, Floyd would be able to too. Unless you think Lamotta is as fast as Floyd Mayweather? Floyd would need to stay low, utilizing that head ducking motion he uses to avoid jabs, then catch Sugar Ray with straight hand leads whenever Sugar Ray is about to throw his flurry, which there is an opening. Sugar Ray for the most part just beat the shit out of guys who were massively inferior men to his athletic ability.

[Jinx]

He was 20 years ahead of his time in ability. He looks fast because he's fighting much slower fighters.

he looked incredibly fast, like Roy Jones at middleweight fast....he looked way too strong for PBF....

[Akxtinguish]

The analogy doesn't work out, because according to the theory if Sugar Ray was fighting today then he'd also be stronger.

This is why I think that you can never compare sportsmen of different generations.

[bladerunner]

it would be a victory for Mayweather if he ended the fight on is feet,forget about beating SRR.

[acb]

Speaking of chins, have you seen PBF get hurt? didnt think so. So how can you say SRR had a better chin when PBF hasnt been tested.

This fight would take place at 147lbs.

SRR's best weight was 147lbs and he fought bigger punchers at higher weights than Floyd WILL EVER FIGHT.

PBF's best weight is 130lbs and he has fought as high as 154lbs, one time.

Perhaps P4P their chins are a wash (although I dont believe it for a second), but at 147lbs I have no doubt that SRR's was better.

[G_RapPBF]

he looked incredibly fast, like Roy Jones at middleweight fast....he looked way too strong for PBF....

He looks fast because he was fighting alot of schmucks. I bet he didnt even train for most his fights, it just goes in there and throws some strong ass combinations and they are done. I mean seriously look at the competition he was facing. Do most of those guys look good to you for todays perspective?

Put Sugar Ray Leonard in that generation, how fast would he look?

[acb]

Do you know what a 2 piece is? A 2 hit combination. He throws that double left jab at Floyd and he gets massacred simply as. He was totally off balance, Floyd would have caught him with a similar check hook that took out Hatton.

Off balance leaning to his left. Thats just asking to be countered.

No I dont know, I live in California and we dont call it a two piece. We just say "combination", novel aint it?

And Im sorry, Lamotta is "massacred" by PBF? It sounds like your talking knock out, and it sounds like you dont know your boxing and are merely a fanboy.

Do you see that the most objective posters here on ESB are in your thread telling you that Floyd would lose?

[G_RapPBF]

No I dont know, I live in California and we dont call it a two piece. We just say "combination", novel aint it?

And Im sorry, Lamotta is "massacred" by PBF? It sounds like your talking knock out, and it sounds like you dont know your boxing and are merely a fanboy.

Do you see that the most objective posters here on ESB are in your thread telling you that Floyd would lose?

Sorry you didnt understand the slang I used. I didnt say Lamotta would be massacred, I said if he tried that off balance left hand lead he'd it the canvas. He'd get up, but he would try that again I can tell you that.

Most wont be objective talking about legends no matter who you. Im not talking from a fanboy perspective, im talking from an era perspective, that Sugar Ray fought against alot of guys who were athletically weaker then him and wouldnt amount to journeymen in the new millenium.

Like I said, Floyd is probably the quickest first punch fighter in boxing, you know what having a quick first step is in basketball,well floyd has that in boxing. He beat Zab Judah to the punch. And if you watch Sugar Ray, maybe it was because he was so confident in the inferior talent he was facing, he would open himself up right before he threw a combination. And Floyd would exploit that, and then revert back into his impenetrable shell, and do it again and again.

[Jinx]

He looks fast because he was fighting alot of schmucks. I bet he didnt even train for most his fights, it just goes in there and throws some strong ass combinations and they are done. I mean seriously look at the competition he was facing. Do most of those guys look good to you for todays perspective?

Put Sugar Ray Leonard in that generation, how fast would he look?

i got 20/20 vision, and the SRR i saw against the PBF against Hatton equals PBF in a bodybag....

[Marnoff]

Do you see that the most objective posters here on ESB are in your thread telling you that Floyd would lose?

Well, as I see it Robinson would be the favourite, but at the same time I think it's ludicrous to say Floyd has no chance.

[acb]

Well, as I see it Robinson would be the favourite, but at the same time I think it's ludicrous to say Floyd has no chance.

Floyd has a chance in any fight from 147lbs down, I just dont see him beating SRR. I also think Hearns would KO him early.

But I entertain the idea, he is a special fighter. Like Asterion said, he should be compared with fighters from 130lbs (where I think he beats anyone) and 135lbs when doing H2H matchups across eras.

[acb]

Sorry you didnt understand the slang I used. I didnt say Lamotta would be massacred, I said if he tried that off balance left hand lead he'd it the canvas. He'd get up, but he would try that again I can tell you that.

Most wont be objective talking about legends no matter who you. Im not talking from a fanboy perspective, im talking from an era perspective, that Sugar Ray fought against alot of guys who were athletically weaker then him and wouldnt amount to journeymen in the new millenium.

Like I said, Floyd is probably the quickest first punch fighter in boxing, you know what having a quick first step is in basketball,well floyd has that in boxing. He beat Zab Judah to the punch. And if you watch Sugar Ray, maybe it was because he was so confident in the inferior talent he was facing, he would open himself up right before he threw a combination. And Floyd would exploit that, and then revert back into his impenetrable shell, and do it again and again.

G_Rap I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

I dont know about SRR opening himself up. In the beggining of fights, he didnt do that. Maybe he did when he was teeing off on somebody.

Anyways, off to work.

[Symphenyceo]

speculation thread....it would be a competitive fight though

[Lacyace]

This is an impossible argument to mount. SRR was better than Floyd at everything except defense. And considering the fact that 147 WAS SRR's best weight and Floyd's best weight is around 130-135, you have a fight which I see ending early for Floyd.

[Symphenyceo]

The analogy doesn't work out, because according to the theory if Sugar Ray was fighting today then he'd also be stronger.

This is why I think that you can never compare sportsmen of different generations.



:good its all speculation and pointless..you really dont know who would win..

[Slothrop]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

Where do you people come from?:patsch

[G_RapPBF]

Where do you people come from?:patsch

please explain where im wrong. Are you saying the guys Sugar Ray destroyed were top of the barrel LOL!

Get real. They were bums. He was just athletically superior, he didnt even have to box with most of him, he just fought.

[Slothrop]

please explain where im wrong. Are you saying the guys Sugar Ray destroyed were top of the barrel LOL!

Get real. They were bums. He was just athletically superior, he didnt even have to box with most of him, he just fought.

You're not helping yourself out any with this. :lol:

[G_RapPBF]

You're not helping yourself out any with this. :lol:

well atleast others brought good arguments, your just doing alot of jibber jabber. Present an argument or get the fuck off the thread.

[Slothrop]

well atleast others brought good arguments, your just doing alot of jibber jabber. Present an argument or get the fuck off the thread.

Is this flame, or do you really, honestly think that Floyd would beat the Pound-For-Pound greatest boxer who ever lived?

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Your right, he probably could beat up his corpse today. However, watch this video before you assume that he would beat Robinson, when Robinson was an active fighter...

60GuoYpmbJo

[platnumpapi]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.


yeah i know were you got that from, and i agree and disagree at the same time.whos better wilt chamberlin or doctor j or kobe bryant id say kobe bryant.michael jordan is the best ever.but i get you point, even though i could argue both sides of the fence.

[G_RapPBF]

Is this flame, or do you really, honestly think that Floyd would beat the Pound-For-Pound greatest boxer who ever lived?

Thats your argument "bah bah hes the best everrr!!"

Seriously is that it? He was certainly the best at dominating his generation ever. Doesnt mean he wouldnt be beat by a top p4p fighter like Floyd in the new millenium.

I see Sugar Ray coming out throwing his jab, Floyd ducking every one staying out range, finally lures him to the ropes, and Sugar Ray opens up for a big combination, Floyd catches his ass with a straight right lead before he can unload. Sugar Ray thinks to himself "damn he aint like the Tommy Bunks I faced for the majority of my career" The fight is on.

[G_RapPBF]

Your right, he probably could beat up his corpse today. However, watch this video before you assume that he would beat Robinson, when Robinson was an active fighter...

60GuoYpmbJo


Sorry seen it. Look at the guys he's fighting, he's not even boxing, boxing, he's fighting because they are just so inferior to him he only has to use the bare minimum of technique.

[Slothrop]

Thats your argument "bah bah hes the best everrr!!"

Seriously is that it? He was certainly the best at dominating his generation ever. Doesnt mean he wouldnt be beat by a top p4p fighter like Floyd in the new millenium.

I see Sugar Ray coming out throwing his jab, Floyd ducking every one staying out range, finally lures him to the ropes, and Sugar Ray opens up for a big combination, Floyd catches his ass with a straight right lead before he can unload. Sugar Ray thinks to himself "damn he aint like the Tommy Bunks I faced for the majority of my career" The fight is on.

:rofl :rofl :rofl

Ooohhhhhh, this is good shit! Keep it up.

[Jinx]

PBF would be lucky if he lasted the distance against SRR....

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Sorry seen it. Look at the guys he's fighting, he's not even boxing, boxing, he's fighting because they are just so inferior to him he only has to use the bare minimum of technique.
Uhh... No, that was SRR slugging out Middleweights during the end of his career. Imagine what SRR was like as a Welterweight.

[quintonjacksonfan]

The myth that the fighters hit harder now is compelete B.S. Foreman was knocked

down 4 times by fighters from the 70's but not one time by the bigger

stronger fighters of the 90's. Let's not forget Foreman was fat and old

and much easier to hit in the 90's yet not one fighter from the 90's put him

on his ass.

Larry Holmes 7 years out of his prime was almost as good as a Prime Lewis

against Mercer and McCall. Now you can say Lewis was better against

Holyfield and Tyson but he fought the much older versions of both fighters

Where Holmes fought the same versions of McCall and Mercer as Lewis

did.

[Popshots]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

What the heck, I'll be in the minority and say I agree. I think Floyd would defeat SRR. People always says SRR had to much power etc.., but Floyd has just as much power, but its never highlighted. I'm not 100% convinced as I was in the Hatton fight, but I think Floyd would find a way to victory.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

The myth that the fighters hit harder now is compelete B.S. Foreman was knocked

down 4 times by fighters from the 70's but not one time by the bigger

stronger fighters of the 90's. Let's not forget Foreman was fat and old

and much easier to hit in the 90's yet not one fighter from the 90's put him

on his ass.

Larry Holmes 7 years out of his prime was almost as good as a Prime Lewis

against Mercer and McCall. Now you can say Lewis was better against

Holyfield and Tyson but he fought the much older versions of both fighters

Where Holmes fought the same versions of McCall and Mercer as Lewis

did.
Well... regarding Foreman, he was bigger when he came back, and he himself said that helped him absorb punishment. He didn't fight wrecklessly like he did in his younger years either, which was an even bigger reason.

I would say that fighters today do hit harder, but only in the heavyweight division. Because the athletes are bigger, faster and stronger today, than they were before. However, if you take a 147 pound man from the past, and a 147 pound man from today... then they aren't any bigger today than they were before. They are both 147 pounds, and there as always been people with great builds that filled out at that weight with the maximum physique. However, at Heavyweight, you have guys like Klitschko who would just be a monster compared to fighters from the past. In the past, the big guys were clumbsy, and without real skill. We are talking about a man who is 6'7" 245 lbs, and has blazing speed, one punch knock out power in both hands, good footwork, great jab, great straight right, great left hook... and can turn a jab over into a left hook.... that is just too much.

[Addie]

I'd never thought about it like this before, but your right I reckon he could have easy whipped SRR!

If you think about it properly theres no reason he couldn't have beaten Ali either...he's a lot faster...better defense...no way could Ali could have matched his superior athleticsm & technical ablity....Ali's been knocked down as well & thats never happened to Floyd!!!!

You're forgetting the real factor here and the reason all of these threads are being made. Floyd has done something that nobody in his era or before has managed to do....he knocked out Ricky Hatton. When you have that on your cv, you better believe he can beat SRR.

[Haye]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

Its not black and white like that though is it. I agree that in most sports, the speed and intensity increases a lot, but throw into the equation that SRR fought 15 rounders and a lot more regularly, then Floyd fights 12 rounders. He would be nearly, if not as fit as, Floyd believe me. Plus he is simply more talented and skilled.Plus bigger and stronger than PBF. SRR wins this 9 times out of 10 at Welterweight.

[Irish Steel]

Well first of all, it is extremely difficult to compare fighters and even other athletes of different eras. Because we would need to find out a formula of hom much faster,stronger,taller, and bigger with todays training methods, and modern medicine. But the way I think they can be compared is to look at each era separately. IN SRR's era he was no doubt the most dominant boxer. ONly Lamotta even stood close to Ray. Not to mention HE FOUGHT EVERYONE.And in his prime he only had 1 loss, which was to lamotta. But ray was a little green. Anyway, Most of his early fights werent even close. He was always the the clear winner. Im not even going to go into depth into his later career. lol.FLoyd on the other hand, is plagued with close fights. Like DLH, and castillo I. And in FLoyd's era, He is the best, but he still hasnt really fought the best competition out there. Now personally I think If SRR came back from the dead and was in his prime, the same as he was back i nthe day, he would beat floyd, but It would be close. Because fast back then, isnt nearly as it is now. SO I would say FLoyd is faster. But there is no doubt in my mind that if srr was born in our modern times, he would annihilate Floyd.

[Photolina]

Sugar Ray Robinson started out as a lightweight (132lbs at that time) and beat arguably the top lightweight of his era, Sammy Agnott. He went on to beat the best welterweights and middleweights from his era. He even went up to light heavyweight (175lbs) and dominated Joey Maxim (the titleholder at light heavyweight) until he quit from heat exhaustion. From 132lbs to 175lbs is where Robinson's carreer streched. That would be like Floyd Mayweather moving up to super middleweight and dominating Joe Calzaghe. You think Floyd even has a chance to last the distance with Calzaghe. Robinson fought lots of bigger men (who outweighed him by like 15+lbs) his whole career. Even if he was a superior boxer than them, they were still much bigger than him (and he knocked lots of them out).

Robinson knocking out someone like Gene Fullmer, a larger but inferior boxer, would be like Mayweather knocking out someone like Arthur Abraham, a larger but inferior boxer. Somehow I can't see Mayweather knocking out or even beating someone like Abraham. Robinson was a welterweight, that knocked out middleweights. Pound for pound, he was the greatest boxer ever, and pound for pound, he was one of the hardest punchers ever.

[JonOli]

Floyd would definitely win on the money front. Robinson lived in poverty until his death in 1989. Quite shocking really. :?

[Larson]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.


:ban

[Larson]

You're forgetting the real factor here and the reason all of these threads are being made. Floyd has done something that nobody in his era or before has managed to do....he knocked out Ricky Hatton. When you have that on your cv, you better believe he can beat SRR.

:rofl:rofl:nut:nut

[brooklyn1550]

Robinson definitely beats Mayweather at 147. Floyd is a great adjuster, no doubt, but Robinson could adjust as well. His height and reach would be factors and his great jab could keep Floyd at a distance. Mayweather would be competitive, but in a little to deep. I see Robinson's combination punching, his own fast hands, and his great punching power getting him a 117-111 type decision with perhaps a knock down of Mayweather if Robinson catches him in the middle of a combination.

[196osh]

Robinson definitely beats Mayweather at 147. Floyd is a great adjuster, no doubt, but Robinson could adjust as well. His height and reach would be factors and his great jab could keep Floyd at a distance. Mayweather would be competitive, but in a little to deep. I see Robinson's combination punching, his own fast hands, and his great punching power getting him a 117-111 type decision with perhaps a knock down of Mayweather if Robinson catches him in the middle of a combination.

:good

Saves me typing that out. I'll make another thread see if the huggers will bite.

[joe33]

Going by all this about modern fighters being stronger and hitting harder,we could say then that the east euro heavys of today would smoke ali,foreman and frazier then?,wlad would beat all three of them then, or does this theory of yours only count for american fighters then?

[C Money]

Hear me out for a minute: Floyd might beat SRR, Cotto, and Williams, except HE WONT FIGHT NONE OF EM:nono

:rofl

PBF cant carry SRR's jockstrap and hasnt proven anything in the Ring in comparison to Robinson. The TRUTH IS simple. Floyd wont fight the best of his day so he cant match up with those who did! So? He cant BE THE BEST:good

Floyd thinks his body is breaking down after 39 fights? What do you suppose it was like for SRR at 128-1-2? :lol: Gotta LOVE the Mayweather faithful that just love to talk shit but rarely CONSIDER the impact of the differences in the sport from today. There werent 6 titles per Division and 19 divisons:nono If SRR had been under TODAY'S Circumstances? He'd have WON THE LHW Championship after that point:yep Robinson started out at 135, its possible he wins Championships at 35, 40, 47, 54, 60, 68, and 75! Which would be a 7 weight division Champion who fought THE BEST OPPOSITION. SRR would chew through Floyd's fake ass troubled persona and spit him into pieces.:happy Robinson lost his first fight at 40-0 to Lamotta,2/5/1943, fights California Jackie Wilson 46-5-2 fourteen days later on 2/19/1943, then rematches and beats Lamotta on 2/26/1943!! Would Floyd rematch Cotto if he lost to him in 3 weeks?:huh :lol: Oh and dont forget SRR fought 15 and some 20 round fights:hey

In fact we dont even NEED SRR, SRL from 80-81 would TKO Floyd just like PBF did to Ricky:yep Just Look at Leonard from 1/11/1979 to 9/16/1981. 15 fights going 14-1 with 10 KO's including Wilfredo Benitez, Roberto Duran Twice, and Thomas Hearns.:huh Too bad Sugar couldnt whip father and SON:rofl SRL TKO'd SR. in 10 rounds on 9/9/78.

Whats really SAD? Is why a guy like Floyd with such talent, who is in the position to have a very long lasting legacy, would be willing to walk awat from that opportunity and the certain large paydays? It's pathetic, so you cant reasonably argue what Floyd might do against the TRUE GREATs when he wont even fight the better guy's of his OWN ERA.:-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(

[G_RapPBF]

Damn you use to many smilies and not alot to say. An indentification of a moron

The reason Robinson fought that many fights is because they were alot of bums in that era. ALOT of bums that would be chased out of the ring with flaming torches like they were the frankenstein monster. And many of them looked like dead corpses the way they fought. Just goes to show how little startegy Robinson had to fight. Fighters today prepare for months watching tape getting in shape to fight 1 hour. Robinson merely showed up and beat any bum they threw in front of em. Thats the difference between today and yesteryears era's. Qauntity no quality. None would qualify as journeymen this day and age. Frankly those werent boxing matches as much as Robinson showing up and fighting, not boxing, fighting. Its easy to look fast and powerful against those bums, he didnt look so hot against Lamotta who Floyd would have dropped if he ever attempted an offbalance right hand lead like he did against Robinson. Show the difference in technical skill between the times.

I explain how Floyd would beat Robinson, the weakness in his game. The right hand lead that he would catch anytime he left himself open before one of his combinations. Floyds ability to duck and counter a jab.

IF you wanna argue bring something more to the table. Explain the weakness's in Floyds game Robinson would exploit, just saying he was athetlically superior wont cut it, he wasnt, he was in his day, but the gap has closed in 50 years.

And how do you know Floyd wont fight Cotto or Williams? Empty speculation.

[C Money]

Damn you use to many smilies and not alot to say. An indentification of a moron

The reason Robinson fought that many fights is because they were alot of bums in that era. ALOT of bums that would be chased out of the ring with flaming torches like they were the frankenstein monster. And many of them looked like dead corpses the way they fought. Just goes to show how little startegy Robinson had to fight. Fighters today prepare for months watching tape getting in shape to fight 1 hour. Robinson merely showed up and beat any bum they threw in front of em. Thats the difference between today and yesteryears era's. Qauntity no quality. None would qualify as journeymen this day and age. Frankly those werent boxing matches as much as Robinson showing up and fighting, not boxing, fighting. Its easy to look fast and powerful against those bums, he didnt look so hot against Lamotta who Floyd would have dropped if he ever attempted an offbalance right hand lead like he did against Robinson. Show the difference in technical skill between the times.

I explain how Floyd would beat Robinson, the weakness in his game. The right hand lead that he would catch anytime he left himself open before one of his combinations. Floyds ability to duck and counter a jab.

IF you wanna argue bring something more to the table. Explain the weakness's in Floyds game Robinson would exploit, just saying he was athetlically superior wont cut it, he wasnt, he was in his day, but the gap has closed in 50 years.

And how do you know Floyd wont fight Cotto or Williams? Empty speculation.

Was that supposed to be a rebuttal?:lol: :good

Check it, 128-1-2 in about the same length of time as Floyd's 39-0. Get it through you're HEAD, SRR beat the best and under todays standards wipes up the ring with Floyd in accomplishements and would do the same with GLOVES ON:good

Floyd? He left names all a long the way, at least he finally cleared up 40. How do we know he wont fight? He's RETIRED or so he says:yep All the talk is he now past prime, just so you have an excuse if eventually reality hits him and he comes back, its rust, its this, its that, ITS BULLSHIT:yep
Come stronger than the FACTS? Gee..who's the MORON??:lol: :finger

Spare me you're theory of rationalization about Floyds game and how it stacks UP. THE REAL ATG's left in the ring, BRING IT, DONT SING IT, OR STFU:good

AT LEAST UNTIL Mayweather proves it against the best of his day and RIGHT NOW? Cotto and Williams are viable, worthy, and profitable opposition. Ellerbe and Team Mayweather can talk what they like but Floyd never did over 375,000 buys PRE DLH and Hatton brought 20,000 cross the pond and how many in PPV?

I'll respect what a man accomplishes and hey if Floy were to fight those two and look impressive while winning? Who knows maybe the debate changes but proof happens in the ring. Until/Unless he DOES? You can wish in one hand and SHIT in the other and see which fills up first:good

Have a smiley day:piss

[G_RapPBF]

Yep you just proves your a moron that says shit just to say it. Idiots walk around here like they know shit and dont know anything.Use as many stupid smilies as you want it doesnt mean shit because your argument is frankly shit.

You bring up Sugar rays record like it would mean anything in this day and age of quality over quantity. Floyd would beat every schmuck in that era just like Sugar ray did. Are you kidding me? Those bums have you actually seen the 75% of guys he fought? Why do you think Jake gave him so much trouble? Because he was one of the only above average fighters Sugar Ray fought. Racking up a load of wins against fighters who wouldnt make a college boxing team doesnt mean anything.

Seriously if you think Floyds retired you need to get your head out of your ass. He just dominated Hatton and he'll be back to dominate the only talent that could possibly make it close Cotto or Williams. Cotto ducked Floyd and Williams is a new comer, no reason for an established fighter to chase them. He's already proved it against the best. Just because there are more challengers doesnt mean he hasnt beaten the best of the decade already.

I mean boy are you dumb, you think 175 wins about half against sisters of the poor is meaningful when compared to today when fighters prepare months in advance watching tape, studying fighters to an era when Robinson could just step into a ring a week after a fight and pummel some sap?

Get a brain dummy.

[Ramshall1]

The premise of this thread is just plain stupid.

[C Money]

Yep you just proves your a moron that says shit just to say it. Idiots walk around here like they know shit and dont know anything.Use as many stupid smilies as you want it doesnt mean shit because your argument is frankly shit.

You bring up Sugar rays record like it would mean anything in this day and age of quality over quantity. Floyd would beat every schmuck in that era just like Sugar ray did. Are you kidding me? Those bums have you actually seen the 75% of guys he fought? Why do you think Jake gave him so much trouble? Because he was one of the only above average fighters Sugar Ray fought. Racking up a load of wins against fighters who wouldnt make a college boxing team doesnt mean anything.

Seriously if you think Floyds retired you need to get your head out of your ass. He just dominated Hatton and he'll be back to dominate the only talent that could possibly make it close Cotto or Williams. Cotto ducked Floyd and Williams is a new comer, no reason for an established fighter to chase them. He's already proved it against the best. Just because there are more challengers doesnt mean he hasnt beaten the best of the decade already.

I mean boy are you dumb, you think 175 wins about half against sisters of the poor is meaningful when compared to today when fighters prepare months in advance watching tape, studying fighters to an era when Robinson could just step into a ring a week after a fight and pummel some sap?

Get a brain dummy.

MY GOD!!

:rofl

We've got a LIVE ONE here:lol:

Dummy? Yep thats YOU in the mirror:good

Dude seriously you are rying to talk hype conjecture over accomplished reality and anyone who disagrees doesnt know SHIT. SUCK A FAT ONE sweetie:good

Quality over quantity did you really just post that? You might have just won DUMBEST POST OF THE YEAR with that late round volley:rofl

Benitez, Duran Twice, and Hearns is better than Floyd's ENTIRE career:yep

Then you say shit like in a era where you could just walk up and get a fight? WoW!! You think its easier to go 128-1-2 vs 39-0?:lol: What about the wear and tear:rofl

STFU CLOWN!! Ease the grip on you're penis, quit staring at Floyd's poster on you're wall, and SAVE IT FOR IF EVER FLOYD BEATS COTTO AND WILLIAMS:good

[the_what]

Your theory sucks. It can only be applied to boxing when you are talking about Heavyweights. Welterweight back then is the same as it is today. Mayweather doesnt hold any groundbreaking advantage because they both would weigh the same.

[G_RapPBF]

So you just mentioned Leonards record when Im obviously talking about Robinson. Boy what a chump

Listen, explain Floyds weaknesses, all you've done is talk and you havent made one credible argument in your favor yet. I already broken down what Robinson does wrong,what does Floyd do wrong?

Seriously if you think the 175 opponents Robinson faced were even on the same playing field as the 39 opponets floyds face you are out of your mind. Im sure Floyd could fight guys with as much boxing ability as nuns week and week out and rack up 100 victores within a span of 5 years, but this is whats changed about the sport of boxing. Quality over quantity. Thats why fighters are fighting less and less because people arent paying to see a guy beat down some schmuck.

Present a credible argument or get the fuck out. Lamotta ate Robinson up with a double off balance left hand lead? You dont think Floyd who has probably the best right hand lead in boxing today wouldnt have similar success? Get the oldtimer Floyd hater dick out your mouth and be objective.

[C Money]

So you just mentioned Leonards record when Im obviously talking about Robinson. Boy what a chump

Listen, explain Floyds weaknesses, all you've done is talk and you havent made one credible argument in your favor yet. I already broken down what Robinson does wrong,what does Floyd do wrong?

Seriously if you think the 175 opponents Robinson faced were even on the same playing field as the 39 opponets floyds face you are out of your mind. Im sure Floyd could fight guys with as much boxing ability as nuns week and week out and rack up 100 victores within a span of 5 years, but this is whats changed about the sport of boxing. Quality over quantity. Thats why fighters are fighting less and less because people arent paying to see a guy beat down some schmuck.

Present a credible argument or get the fuck out. Lamotta ate Robinson up with a double off balance left hand lead? You dont think Floyd who has probably the best right hand lead in boxing today wouldnt have similar success? Get the oldtimer Floyd hater dick out your mouth and be objective.

You're the one with dick in you're mouth:yep

You wouldnt know credible if it landed like a falling piano on you're head.

BTW, I said SRL in my first post. You are a good forum laugh talking about SRR fought nobody's and Floyd beat the best.:rofl

You really are gunning for stupid poster of the year:yikes You're not gonna make it though, there's some idiots been around ALL Year. Maybe next year, you can give em a run for the money. This is some legendary retardation you're spitting.

You got no factual back up but you's a genius:hi:

[RafaelGonzal]

true Lamotta is like a Baldo with more strength chin power and athletic ability. Sugar Ray gave up something like 15 to 20 pounds in their early fights. You only get to see an older version of Ray a bit over the hill and still he kicks ass with the best at 2 divisons over his best weight class. A fighter like Ray was much more experienced than a PBF. His craft well honed and seasoned to perfection. The guy fought fought what 75% more fights at welter than PBF. He also had the incredible gifts that PBF has, but is bigger stronger and more experienced. Great big man beats a Great little man. Ray all the way

[mrbassie]

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

Complete bollocks from start to finish. There is no logic to what you say as we have video evidence that boxing skills and fitness have declined enormously from the 60's onwards. It seems on these bords there are all sorts of proponents of 'modern' training methods, and what are they exactly? A speed bag is still a speed bag, a heavy bag is still a heavy bag and a rope is still a rope. It's all complete crap

[G_RapPBF]

true Lamotta is like a Baldo with more strength chin power and athletic ability. Sugar Ray gave up something like 15 to 20 pounds in their early fights. You only get to see an older version of Ray a bit over the hill and still he kicks ass with the best at 2 divisons over his best weight class. A fighter like Ray was much more experienced than a PBF. His craft well honed and seasoned to perfection. The guy fought fought what 75% more fights at welter than PBF. He also had the incredible gifts that PBF has, but is bigger stronger and more experienced. Great big man beats a Great little man. Ray all the way

Good post. I think the majority of Sugar rays comp were schmucks who wouldnt be allowed within an inch of Vegas if they fought the way they did back then. And I think the majority of those fights SRR just came in to kick ass not so much box, so I think Floyd from the way boxing has changed with technology and video tape and such would be the more technically gifted boxer.

However, SRR does have the height advantage. But I think Floyd has more speed in a straight line. Not a big combination pounder like SRR but the best right lead in the history of boxing.

[RafaelGonzal]

He looks fast because he was fighting alot of schmucks. I bet he didnt even train for most his fights, it just goes in there and throws some strong ass combinations and they are done. I mean seriously look at the competition he was facing. Do most of those guys look good to you for todays perspective?

Put Sugar Ray Leonard in that generation, how fast would he look?


shit I just came off watching Juan Ponce de Leon and he is a fucking Champ!!!! so from todays prespective you have no point.

[acb]

shit I just came off watching Juan Ponce de Leon and he is a fucking Champ!!!! so from todays prespective you have no point.

Good point. If you put that guy in black and white and the screen was crackling with some old commentator, he would be a primary example of the kind of bum which could never be champ today.

[G_RapPBF]

Complete bollocks from start to finish. There is no logic to what you say as we have video evidence that boxing skills and fitness have declined enormously from the 60's onwards. It seems on these bords there are all sorts of proponents of 'modern' training methods, and what are they exactly? A speed bag is still a speed bag, a heavy bag is still a heavy bag and a rope is still a rope. It's all complete crap

Wow. With the advances in nutrition, cardio, medication and most importantly video tape you really really believe that? I mean seriously?

[RafaelGonzal]

Would Sugar Ray Robinson duck Cotto!!!!!!

[G_RapPBF]

Would Sugar Ray Robinson duck Cotto!!!!!!

Cotto ducked Floyd. Floyds never ducked Cotto. Good example though, look at welter today, compared to welter then. I mean can you even make a legit comparison, would a man stay sane doing so lol?

[cardstars]

The only way he beats SRR is if they fought today. End of story

[john garfield]

Ya have to ask yourself: How much of Floyd's brilliance would still be there after another 60-70 fights? SRR wasn't just magnificent, he was one tough SOB.

Floyd's talking now about aches and pains. Just imagine him at the top of his game with twice as many fights.

Bear that in mind when you consider them head-to-head.

[xviiixvi]

First of all Floyd wouldnt have fought 60 fights. I saw the video an 75% of the people on the video were SLOW WHITE GUYS. Who in the hell gets hit with a haymaker coming from the hip? Watch the video. Half of the time SRR starts from the Body throws 4 or 5 punch combos and works his way up to the head. I would've have picked SRR, but after that video, I would pick Floyd. When have you ever seen Floyd go BLINDLY toe-to-toe with anyone. Anyone who has traded with Floyd has paid dearly and not by being KO'd but by being outsmarted by throwing 15 punches and walloped with two or three good punches; result waste time and come away with FACE SWELLING. 12 rounds of that and you get frustrated. If they fought in that day 15 rounds and you end up with brain damage.

[Slothrop]

First of all Floyd wouldnt have fought 60 fights. I saw the video an 75% of the people on the video were SLOW WHITE GUYS. Who in the hell gets hit with a haymaker coming from the hip? Watch the video. Half of the time SRR starts from the Body throws 4 or 5 punch combos and works his way up to the head. I would've have picked SRR, but after that video, I would pick Floyd. When have you ever seen Floyd go BLINDLY toe-to-toe with anyone. Anyone who has traded with Floyd has paid dearly and not by being KO'd but by being outsmarted by throwing 15 punches and walloped with two or three good punches; result waste time and come away with FACE SWELLING. 12 rounds of that and you get frustrated. If they fought in that day 15 rounds and you end up with brain damage.

Do I detect a hint of RACISM in this post?

[Ramshall1]

Sugar Ray would have called out Winky only to run from him when he accepted the challenge.

[doomeddisciple]

Ray - The greatest and undefeated Welterweight of all time, then 5 time Middle champ loosed to Peanut Brittle Hands Jnr lightweight?

Never.

This board has threads started by people who have been watching boxing for 10 minutes...

[MachineGunMitch]

they let just about any moron post on here..

[Lance_Uppercut]

Would Sugar Ray Robinson duck Cotto!!!!!!

Would he turn down 8 million for an "easy" fight as well?:lol:

[Goose]

With the power that Robinson had in both hands......he would slice through mayweather's defence as if it was butter, and just knock him the fuck out

However, there are alot of things to take into the account, the size of gloves, the number of rounds, the refereeing back then was also brutal, as soon as a fighter got up they let him right back into action, nowadays they take about 10 seconds untill they ask them if they are ok or not. Robinson fought under harsher conditions in boxing and he came out on top.
Mayweather wouldnt be able to fight with those small gloves , he'll break all the bones in his hands, but it would contribute to his speed, while Robinson's power in bigger gloves would be reduced. The level of competiton back then could have been weaker, but SRR beat everyone, he beat alot of very good fighers as well, and he beat them soundly.

After taking all these factors to the account, i still pick Robinson.

[Photolina]

In a interview with Roger Mayweather (who is a big supporter of Floyd), they asked him how well Floyd would do against Robinson. Roger said Floyd would be competitive but he may not win. The interview was posted on ESB about 2 weeks ago.

[G_RapPBF]

First of all Floyd wouldnt have fought 60 fights. I saw the video an 75% of the people on the video were SLOW WHITE GUYS. Who in the hell gets hit with a haymaker coming from the hip? Watch the video. Half of the time SRR starts from the Body throws 4 or 5 punch combos and works his way up to the head. I would've have picked SRR, but after that video, I would pick Floyd. When have you ever seen Floyd go BLINDLY toe-to-toe with anyone. Anyone who has traded with Floyd has paid dearly and not by being KO'd but by being outsmarted by throwing 15 punches and walloped with two or three good punches; result waste time and come away with FACE SWELLING. 12 rounds of that and you get frustrated. If they fought in that day 15 rounds and you end up with brain damage.

Well said. :good

They were terrible. I cant believe people dont see the different levels of quality now days. Floyd wouldnt have brittle hands if he got to bunch those lames in the head every week.

[gruuby]

With the power that Robinson had in both hands......he would slice through mayweather's defence as if it was butter, and just knock him the fuck out

However, there are alot of things to take into the account, the size of gloves, the number of rounds, the refereeing back then was also brutal, as soon as a fighter got up they let him right back into action, nowadays they take about 10 seconds untill they ask them if they are ok or not. Robinson fought under harsher conditions in boxing and he came out on top.
Mayweather wouldnt be able to fight with those small gloves , he'll break all the bones in his hands, but it would contribute to his speed, while Robinson's power in bigger gloves would be reduced. The level of competiton back then could have been weaker, but SRR beat everyone, he beat alot of very good fighers as well, and he beat them soundly.

After taking all these factors to the account, i still pick Robinson.

Good post. A lot here I wouldn't have thought about.

[Jersey Joe]

Speaking of chins, have you seen PBF get hurt? didnt think so. So how can you say SRR had a better chin when PBF hasnt been tested.
Robinson fought 200 pro bouts and was never knocked out, only getting stopped by heat exhaustion vs light heavy champion Joey Maxim. Robinson fought many of his fights at middleweight and in his late 30s and early 40s, clearly way past his prime, vs bigger younger fighters, yet was still never knocked out.

Floyd has fought 37 fights, less than 20% of the number Robinson fought, and he has never fought past his prime. By that alone we can say that Robinson's chin is far more tested.

Many fighters have not been KOd, until they met a good boxer with power, or a real big hitter, then they go down. With only 37 fights and hardly any vs big hitters, you just can't say that someone has a proven all-time great chin. Robinson on the other hand fought two hundred times, against many hall of famers, and was never knocked out. That is a proven granite chin over 2 decades of fighting over 28 lbs in weight classes.

There is simply no comparison. Floyd's chin has not been tested much, Robinson's was tested more than almost any other fighter. Robinson's stood up to that test, and is therefore one of the best. Floyd's we don't really know, any more than we knew Roy Jones's chin - until Tarver and Johnson showed how ordinary it was.

The 3 of you who tried to compare chins are basically flat out wrong.

[lyraus]

Why is it so hard to believe. There is no doubt that the worst NFL team today would destroy the best NFL team 50 years ago. Why is it any different in boxing. Not saying Sugar Ray would get destroyed by anyone because he was obviously about 20 years ahead of his time in athletic ability, but come on.

NFL teams of today probably outweight NFL teams of 50 years ago, in every position, by at least 30 pounds. In boxing, that type of advantage is negated outside of heavyweight because of weight classes. Robinson would still be the bigger, stronger man than Floyd. Ray was 6 feet tall, at least as fast as Mayweather, and carried one punch KO power all the way up to middleweight. You have to be kidding me if you think Mayweather is some how physically superior to Robinson.

[G_RapPBF]

NFL teams of today probably outweight NFL teams of 50 years ago, in every position, by at least 30 pounds. In boxing, that type of advantage is negated outside of heavyweight because of weight classes. Robinson would still be the bigger, stronger man than Floyd. Ray was 6 feet tall, at least as fast as Mayweather, and carried one punch KO power all the way up to middleweight. You have to be kidding me if you think Mayweather is some how physically superior to Robinson.

Nope. Take a look at cornerbacks and receivers today compared to 20-30 years ago. Same size, except receivers and corners are much faster and much stronger.

Sugar Ray was probably superior to Floyd strength wise, im not doubting that, but not speed and agility wise. Footwork goes to sugar ray. But I still think floyd had a right hand lead that would give Sugar ray problems.

[codeman99998]

Power: SRR
Speed: SRR
Defense: PBF
Footwork: Wash
Chin: SRR

On top of that SRR threw every punch in the book better than Floyd. His left hook was perfect. His command of range equally perfect. His chin was rock solid.

Floyd is a great fighter, but he doesnt beat Robinson. I suggest you watch Robinson.

Not EVERY punch. I think Floyd probably has a better jab to the body. I certainly don't think that is enough to make a difference, but his body jab is really good...

[boxbox]

some of your points are true, the younger generation always finds a way to be better than the old ones. This is because the old ones left a template on what is effective and what is not. This is then learned by the younger ones from the start of their careers, so yes they have higher possibilities of beating people from the past. Thats why its stupid to keep matching up fighters from the past and the present.

[Jersey Joe]

please explain where im wrong. Are you saying the guys Sugar Ray destroyed were top of the barrel LOL!

Get real. They were bums. He was just athletically superior, he didnt even have to box with most of him, he just fought.

Bums like Zivic, Fullmer, Basilio, Angott, LaMotta, Gavilan, who somehow managed to pick up world titles and get into the Hall of Fame.

Sure thing.

[boxbox]

Bums like Zivic, Fullmer, Basilio, Angott, LaMotta, Gavilan, who somehow managed to pick up world titles and get into the Hall of Fame.

Sure thing.

guess he doesnt really know SRR's background. :yep

[G_RapPBF]

Bums like Zivic, Fullmer, Basilio, Angott, LaMotta, Gavilan, who somehow managed to pick up world titles and get into the Hall of Fame.

Sure thing.

They wouldnt be the top standard if they fought today. Sugar ray would be the only one to translate into this era. For instance, Floyd would pick Lamotta apart. Noway would he get caught with a double offbalance left like Sugar ray.

However I was talking about the majority of the bums he fought to get to 175 wins. They wouldnt amount to journeymen today. Like someone said he knocked there asses out swinging from the hip, he wasnt even displaying any technique its like he new he was just so superior he didnt have too.

[Jersey Joe]

They wouldnt be the top standard if they fought today. Sugar ray would be the only one to translate into this era. For instance, Floyd would pick Lamotta apart. Noway would he get caught with a double offbalance left like Sugar ray.

However I was talking about the majority of the bums he fought to get to 175 wins. They wouldnt amount to journeymen today. Like someone said he knocked there asses out swinging from the hip, he wasnt even displaying any technique its like he new he was just so superior he didnt have too.
But the point is that Robinson was beating world champions and Hall of Famers, many of whom were a weight division above him, and several of these wins were in his mid to late 30s. Many really great fighters were shot before 35 e.g. Ray Leonard, Ali, Hearns, Roy Jones Jr. Robinson was not only not shot, not only winning world titles, he was doing it 13 lbs above the fighting weight of his prime. That is pretty extraordinary. Only a small handful of fighters have been world champions above 35 years old, and hardly any of them in higher weight divisions than their prime.

Now consider that Floyd is the naturally smaller guy, and that all our footage of Robinson is past his prime and one division (which is worth 2 modern divisions) above his prime weight. The odds just stack more and more against Floyd. Let's see how many titles Floyd wins when he is 35+. If he's still beating linear world champions from time to time, then he can make a P4P challenge to Robinson. But he would still be the smaller man in a head to head, so still the underdog.

[ripcity]

I'll add full to the fire I would pick Robbinson to win, but Mayweither could win.
Robinson is biger and the agresor. Mayweither tends to be a slow stater which is dangures aganst an offensive master like Robinson. An early round ko is posibble, and if Mayweither did manage to survive the early rounds there is a good chance that even with a strong finish he could get enough points to win. The result would be Robinson by decision.
However if Mayweither could manage to get going by the fith round I think Mayweither has a good style and the skills to efectivly put it to use aganist Robinson.
I'm loseing focus on what I want say. So I will simpelfy it.
Robinson is the most likly winnr of a match up between the two. However a Mayweither win is not as absured as many of you think it is.

[boxbox]

PBF ,et al., all present day fighters, have the luxury of being taught about the sweet science of boxing. They watched videos of great fighters from the past and studied their moves. Through the years, these moves has been passed from generations to generations and produced these great fighters we have today. Now imagine this. SRR having the same advantage. Who knows what he could have done!? SRR's physique was extra ordinary.

[Feech]

Hear me out for a minute: Floyd would beat Sugar


Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.
what the ??

[McGrain]

Today.

Well yes, Sugar Ray is dead now.

[enquirer]

Man,collazo doesnt realise how close he was to boxing immortality,if hed have just pulled out a stoppage in the twelfth he would have esb threads comparing him with and even bettering ray robinson....Funny how beating hatton elevates one to the greatest of all times....:rasta

[quintonjacksonfan]

Floyd would never make it in the 50's with those brittle hands. Can you imagine him having to fight 10 times a year like SRR. Floyd had to take a knee because he couldn't handle it and then ran.

[Addie]

Man,collazo doesnt realise how close he was to boxing immortality,if hed have just pulled out a stoppage in the twelfth he would have esb threads comparing him with and even bettering ray robinson....Funny how beating hatton elevates one to the greatest of all times....:rasta

haha I know, it's great.

Whoever knocks out Hatton next at Welterweight, and that could be a number of people including Margarito, then I'd pick them against the greatest fighter that ever lived too.

[ganchozurdo]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

DUUUMMMBEEEST boxing prediction ever i didn realize how stupid you were until i found out the hread WOW i am spechless how can FRAUD nutlickering reach you on this level ...
***ADVISE STOP :tong on frauds genitals

[Samurai]

Fucking retarded thread.

but Floyd has just as much power, but its never highlighted.

Fucking retarded post.

[eliqueiros]

Do you just say outrageous statements to gain pages on your threads?

[1lehudson]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.
no

[psychopath]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

I think PBF's cum has already affected your brain. :yep

Let go of his dick. :D

[jupzrooni]

he might beat a past prime robinson but in his prime no

[Sweet Pea]

Have we not deciphered and picked apart this same goddamn argument about 30 times in the last week? Are the trolls constantly PM'ing each other telling each other to start threads regarding old and new comparisons? Get a new fucking argument! Actually watch the film at least instead of assuming today's fighters are at a higher level because they have a few more grams of protein in their diet.

[LiamE]

I dunno what all the fuss is about. Of course PBF would beat SRR today. The guy has been dead nearly 20 years which is bound to take the edge off his work.

[Arriba]

I dunno what all the fuss is about. Of course PBF would beat SRR today. The guy has been dead nearly 20 years which is bound to take the edge off his work.

Assuming we saved his brain...and can somehow piece his body back together with some pipe cleaners, duct tape and paper towel rolls AND we get him a few tine up fights...I'd take Robinson over Floyd

[rusticraver]

lets compare resumes....

[PowerPuncher]

Makes me ashamed to be a Floyd fan. SRR wins hes all wrong for Floyd

[ron u.k.]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.now at the end of this thread you will say "i was only joking,and trying to wind you fellas up"

[BoxingGuru]

Yeah right. Obviously these modern fans posting that Floyd can beat all these greats don't know anything about boxing history and haven't seen Sugar Ray fight.

[LiamE]

Assuming we saved his brain...and can somehow piece his body back together with some pipe cleaners, duct tape and paper towel rolls AND we get him a few tine up fights...I'd take Robinson over Floyd

Gonna be a tough job if they had him cremated though.

[MGUNZ48]

The only real quesion is if PBF could go the distance, I can't see anyway he could beat SRR at 47.

[MGUNZ48]

Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by.

I wish people would get a grip on this modern athlete bull shit. Especially with any weight class under Hvy. The human body has not fundementaily changed in over 100,000 years. Last time I checked they had 2 arms, 2 legs and 147 lbs was still 147 lbs? Running is still running, a punch is still a punch. I don't by off on people's diets being better either. Not if you look at the crap people eat nowadays. Remember the HBO special that showed PBF sitting at his house, eating a big pile of candy before his fight with Hatton? Riods are the only true advance that you can really put your finger on. I contend that the older guys probably had a better diet overall, and were tougher mentally. I do believe that training techniques are better, but in a sport that pits men of the same weight vs each other its a small advantage. You have to look at each man.

[DON1]

Mayweather is top draw but lets get real. We are taking about Sugar Ray Robinson here, this guy was something else. What fighter has Mayweather fought that is anywhere near Sugar Ray Robinson's level?? I'm sfraid there isn't one.

[Dennis]

I wish people would get a grip on this modern athlete bull shit. Especially with any weight class under Hvy. The human body has not fundementaily changed in over 100,000 years. Last time I checked they had 2 arms, 2 legs and 147 lbs was still 147 lbs? Running is still running, a punch is still a punch. I don't by off on people's diets being better either. Not if you look at the crap people eat nowadays. Remember the HBO special that showed PBF sitting at his house, eating a big pile of candy before his fight with Hatton? Riods are the only true advance that you can really put your finger on. I contend that the older guys probably had a better diet overall, and were tougher mentally. I do believe that training techniques are better, but in a sport that pits men of the same weight vs each other its a small advantage. You have to look at each man.

Good post, I agree.

ontopic: Floyd doesn't seem like the kind of fighter (stylewise) that could beat SRR. Now I'm not really well educated on boxing's historical fighters, but if I take a look at Ray's resume it looks like he had trouble with tough pressure fighters, which is exactly the opposite of Floyd's style (defensive counter-punching). The way I see it Robinson would feel comfortable by not being pressured throughout a fight. Which leads me to think he would set the pace and put enough effective pressure on Floyd to win the fight.

Remember: styles make fights, it has nothing to do with old or new school boxing and/or nutrition.

[Arriba]

Gonna be a tough job if they had him cremated though.


Bill Gates can make another one.

After all, he's still makin dem fuckin computahs.

[Haye]

Unlike other sports, boxing is timeless. That is why fighters from the 1940's are picked to beat fighters from the 1990's. It is the same game now as it was 50 years ago.

Skills are timeless, new techniques come along, like shoulder rolls, and are perfected by certain fighters such as James Toney. But the fundamentals are timeless, as are speed and power.

This thread just demonstrates the ignorance of the poster. There is no objective analysis as to why Floyd beats Robinson. Only that ''Basketball is better now so Floyd must be better than Robinson'' logic.

GRapPBF - You know fuck all. Try watching some SRR fights and then come up with why Floyd is so much more advanced and better.

[BritInvasion]

Who's this Ray Robinson guy? He ain't no ratings. Floyd'll moider da bum.

[Primenal]

As for your theory of boxers become faster, and stronger over time.....In the bible it says "man will grow weaker and wiser." Look around you, this is definitely true.
They used to box bare knuckled at one time, or used much smaller gloves. They might go 15 rounds like that. Think people could do that today??? We've made plenty of advancements on the way we train such as weight training. I'm pretty much a muscle head so I know this, BUT back then people farmed/ hunted there own food, they worked all day, etc. They didn't need to lift weights.
Just because we give more tecnically advanced, and design better training equipment doesn't mean were better, or tougher than a past generation. If anything...Were definitely a lot weaker.

[Privatejoker]

:fire Who is this G_RapPBF? I am sick to death of these guys who keep saying "athletes are bigger, stronger today so they would win". In some cases maybe, but not when it comes to Robinson v Mayweather. Is Floyd bigger and stronger than Robinson? Does he hit harder than Robinson? Because Floyd has a better defence doesn't mean he is going to win, Floyd has never faced anyone like Robinson, is Corrales Robinson? What about Hatton? DLH? Robinson would beat every fighter Mayweather has beaten and do it quicker. Floyd ran from Baldo (who does have a decent chin, but it would be cracked by Robinson). Robinson KO's DLH. G_RapPBF keeps talking about Floyd's countering and all that and yes Floyd is a great fighter, BUT NOT AT 147. Who has Floyd beat at 147? Basilo is better than Hatton and the 34 year old version Oscar (who wasn't at 147). Basilo would never gas out he was has a granite chin and keep throwing, he would beat castillo. Kid Gavillan is better than DLH, Judah and Baldo, even G_RapPBF must admit this. You talk about "Athletes now", while guys from the 80's would smoke PBF:rasta HEARNS, don't try and tell me that PBF beats the REAL HITMAN, who has too much advantages to lose to Pink Floyd, Sugar Ray Leonard would beat him, and in my opinion so would Duran. But i wouldn't pick any of those guys to beat Robinson. Robinson KO'd Middleweights OUT COLD:nut while floyd runs. Could a shot Gatti go 6 rounds with Robinson? Could Judah go 12 with Robinson? Could Hatton go 10 with Robinson? I don't care about Floyd's defence being better or how quick he is, he does not excite the fans like a true ATG like Ray did. Ray was past it in the fights G_RapPBF mentions against a bigger man in Lamotta and still took him to school. A 36-37 Robinson KO'd the granite chinned Fullmer with one shot:admin that's the stuff legends are made. Imagine if Ray was around now? He would probably be a true linear 6 weight World champ, while Floyd was not linear at 140 or 154. :bart Imagine Robinson at 154:yikes That Robinson vid from Youtube with Layla track shows the destructive power Ray had, he could end the fight in a flash with those left hooks, G_Rap wants to say that those guys were bums or something, while Floyd fought a shot Mitchell (what did he do at 147?), Brussles (where did he go?), Baldo (strong dude, and Ring Champ but come on he wasn't unbeatable and already lost 9 times and was always limited), Judah (he lost to the man just mentioned and Floyd still fought him). Robinson showed neck breaking power, Floyd never displayed that power, even against Hatton, Floyd hit him with Left hooks all night and Ricky kept coming until one hook with a help of the ring pole floored Hatton. Ray knocked guys OUT COLD with single left hooks, guys who never could get up again. A lot of the guys who went the distance with a peak Robinson (i mean the 129-1 version) had chins even if they weren't good or well known, because of that it doesn't mean they had glass jaws. If Floyd fought guys in the 50's the way he fought Castillo or Baldo, he would be booed out the ring.

[teeto]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.
No , ive done this a million times, analysed it, done and done, never beating Robinson, never happenin

[ganchozurdo]

G-rap will never be taken seriously after posting all that nonsense

[fitzgeraldz]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

Yeah ... the evolution of the boxer over the years ... they've become more athletic ... more illusive ... stronger ... faster ... and a change of guard and skill.

Its the same with any sport ... yeah you have some fighters that couldve fought in any era and have been the same ... but the boxing athlete now is of a different mold.

I know the defensive stance that Robinson used has evolved --

[ganchozurdo]

Yeah ... the evolution of the boxer over the years ... they've become more athletic ... more illusive ... stronger ... faster ... and a change of guard and skill.

Its the same with any sport ... yeah you have some fighters that couldve fought in any era and have been the same ... but the boxing athlete now is of a different mold.

I know the defensive stance that Robinson used has evolved --

ok if u belive all that crap that the sport has evolved bla bla bla do you think that a PRIME MAYWEATHER @147 beats a PRIME SUGAR RAY @147 ???

[Samurai]

I hate Mayweather nuthuggers.

[fitzgeraldz]

ok if u belive all that crap that the sport has evolved bla bla bla do you think that a PRIME MAYWEATHER @147 beats a PRIME SUGAR RAY @147 ???

Yeah !!

I'm not going to jump and give the older generation credit because of who they fought.

SRL was very hittable ... he just had fast hands ... he's never fought a defensive fighter like Floyd ... he's never fought a fighter that match him in over all speed.

Floyd will go down as the best fighter ever !!

[Arriba]

I hate Mayweather nuthuggers.

I wonder if the sensible ones feel ashamed when the crazies embarass them.

Like a retarded family member who just goes out of his way to make himself look like a tool time and time again.

[ganchozurdo]

Yeah !!

I'm not going to jump and give the older generation credit because of who they fought.

SRL was very hittable ... he just had fast hands ... he's never fought a defensive fighter like Floyd ... he's never fought a fighter that match him in over all speed.

Floyd will go down as the best fighter ever !!

snoring FRAUD mayweather's sperm has clearly impared your brain's ability to think... you r clearly biased with these argument even I who ama big cotto fans knows that he gets KO by great all timers like SRR but IDIOTS like u refuse to admitt the truth with ur FRAUD mayweather fascination

[fitzgeraldz]

I hate Mayweather nuthuggers.

Keep hating ... i'm not a nuthugger ... i'm a purist and I know boxing --

you probably have never analysed the fight correctly ... you hear SRR and automatically assume that he'll beat anyone of the modern era ...

[SgrRyLeonard]

What I don't get is how can people think Mayweather would beat Sugar Ray Robinson yet not have a problem with him going for easy money fights against DeLaHoya and Hatton. If he's really that good, he's got no business going for any easy fights; He should be fighting the best.

[Shanger]

It is not unreasonable to suggest Mayweather could beat Robinson. Not for the reasons suggested in this thread, really, but it's very possible. Robinson was naturally much bigger, but there's no denying what Floyd brings to the table either.

Sense. ^

[acb]

Yeah ... the evolution of the boxer over the years ... they've become more athletic ... more illusive ... stronger ... faster ... and a change of guard and skill.



So very ironic you would say this with Pep in you avatar.

[teeto]

So very ironic you would say this with Pep in you avatar.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[JonOli]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Geogre Foreman standing toe to toe with the best heavies in the 90's.

Foreman got beaten by Holyfield and Tommy Morrison. Then got a title shot he had absolutely no right or business getting. He was getting walloped and beaten easily by Moorer and then Foremand happend to land a KO punch in the 10th round in a fight that was all but over.

Then he ducked a fight with his mandetry Tony tucker and was stripped of his WBA belt.

Fair play to him for making a comeback, but he hardly tore the heavyweight division apart.

[acb]

Foreman got beaten by Holyfield and Tommy Morrison. Then got a title shot he had absolutely no right or business getting. He was getting walloped and beaten easily by Moorer and then Foremand happend to land a KO punch in the 10th round in a fight that was all but over.

Then he ducked a fight with his mandetry Tony tucker and was stripped of his WBA belt.

Fair play to him for making a comeback, but he hardly tore the heavyweight division apart.
Happened to land a right hand? That tends to happen when right hands are thrown effectively. Your dislike for the man couldn't be any clearer.

Yet, he was there, at that age and competitive. This being 20 after his era.

And with all of the "evolution of the sport, and nutrition", he probably shouldn't have even been competitive with those guys.

[boxeo#1]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

It sounds nice in theory but if u just take a look at how SRR fights than you'll think differently:hey

[ganchozurdo]

Keep hating ... i'm not a nuthugger ... i'm a purist and I know boxing --

you probably have never analysed the fight correctly ... you hear SRR and automatically assume that he'll beat anyone of the modern era ...
POWER SRR>FRAUD
SPEED SRR > FRAUD
RING IQ SRR > FRAUD
DEFENSE even maybe a slight edge to FRAUD
TECHNIQUE ( Combination of off skills and defensive skills) SRR> FRAUD
SIZE SRR>FRAUD
JAB SRR>FRAUD

so please tell me what does fraud brings to the table against srr to make u think he'll beat him besides a good defense

SRR wwill force FRAUD to fight him for some reason u think FRAUD is going to potshot him all night, but at the end of the day he KTFO of lil fraud cold in like 6 or 7 rds

[fitzgeraldz]

So very ironic you would say this with Pep in you avatar.

Its weird because as far as I try and go back ... Willie Pep does that defensive style the best i've seen (other than Floyd) I wonder who's the orginator.

I think that Pep would be great in this era and is most comparable to Paulie Malignaggi ... he was more illusive than Malignaggi and had more style. He's like the white verson of Floyd.

Pep and Floyd are like out of the same mold ...

[PaddyD1983]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

I take your point and its one I've made when comparing say Lennox Lewis to a number of heavies, but most notably Marciano. Outside of the heavies though it doesnt really have the same impact due to weight brackets. Its an interesting one but not something I think would make a difference at that weight.

Now thats not to say I dont think Floyd would be fitter... he definately would. Better diets, better training regimes etc etc but Floyd isnt a pressure fighter so its not as if he would tire out SRR. I'd have to go with SRR in this no matter what.

Incidentally, at what weight were you thinking for this? I'm assuming your talking welter?

[fitzgeraldz]

I think that Robinson wouldve took Floyd the distance ... but Floyd wouldve hit the very hittable Robinson.

Pep v PBF at LW wouldve been a great fight !! alot of people wouldn't appreciate the boxing but I would love to see this fight more than any fight in the history of boxing.

[PaddyD1983]

:fire Who is this G_RapPBF? I am sick to death of these guys who keep saying "athletes are bigger, stronger today so they would win". In some cases maybe, but not when it comes to Robinson v Mayweather. Is Floyd bigger and stronger than Robinson? Does he hit harder than Robinson? Because Floyd has a better defence doesn't mean he is going to win, Floyd has never faced anyone like Robinson, is Corrales Robinson? What about Hatton? DLH? Robinson would beat every fighter Mayweather has beaten and do it quicker. Floyd ran from Baldo (who does have a decent chin, but it would be cracked by Robinson). Robinson KO's DLH. G_RapPBF keeps talking about Floyd's countering and all that and yes Floyd is a great fighter, BUT NOT AT 147. Who has Floyd beat at 147? Basilo is better than Hatton and the 34 year old version Oscar (who wasn't at 147). Basilo would never gas out he was has a granite chin and keep throwing, he would beat castillo. Kid Gavillan is better than DLH, Judah and Baldo, even G_RapPBF must admit this. You talk about "Athletes now", while guys from the 80's would smoke PBF:rasta HEARNS, don't try and tell me that PBF beats the REAL HITMAN, who has too much advantages to lose to Pink Floyd, Sugar Ray Leonard would beat him, and in my opinion so would Duran. But i wouldn't pick any of those guys to beat Robinson. Robinson KO'd Middleweights OUT COLD:nut while floyd runs. Could a shot Gatti go 6 rounds with Robinson? Could Judah go 12 with Robinson? Could Hatton go 10 with Robinson? I don't care about Floyd's defence being better or how quick he is, he does not excite the fans like a true ATG like Ray did. Ray was past it in the fights G_RapPBF mentions against a bigger man in Lamotta and still took him to school. A 36-37 Robinson KO'd the granite chinned Fullmer with one shot:admin that's the stuff legends are made. Imagine if Ray was around now? He would probably be a true linear 6 weight World champ, while Floyd was not linear at 140 or 154. :bart Imagine Robinson at 154:yikes That Robinson vid from Youtube with Layla track shows the destructive power Ray had, he could end the fight in a flash with those left hooks, G_Rap wants to say that those guys were bums or something, while Floyd fought a shot Mitchell (what did he do at 147?), Brussles (where did he go?), Baldo (strong dude, and Ring Champ but come on he wasn't unbeatable and already lost 9 times and was always limited), Judah (he lost to the man just mentioned and Floyd still fought him). Robinson showed neck breaking power, Floyd never displayed that power, even against Hatton, Floyd hit him with Left hooks all night and Ricky kept coming until one hook with a help of the ring pole floored Hatton. Ray knocked guys OUT COLD with single left hooks, guys who never could get up again. A lot of the guys who went the distance with a peak Robinson (i mean the 129-1 version) had chins even if they weren't good or well known, because of that it doesn't mean they had glass jaws. If Floyd fought guys in the 50's the way he fought Castillo or Baldo, he would be booed out the ring.

Paragraphs man!

I read like three lines and thought fu*k it!

[YOUNG*LORD]

Well atleast someone wants to put up a decent argument.

I dont understand why we cant question older fighters stacking up today. I mean you think Wilt Chamberlain would average 50 points a game in the NBA today? Hell no. He wouldnt be posting up against 5'11 white guys like 40 years ago.

So why would boxing be different?what a dumbass...the fighters back then has amazing stamina...not many today can go past 12 like in the past. No bad habits, like many of today's fighters. Most of the old fighters were about the basics of boxing. Why was Tyson so successful when Cas was alive? It wasn't just strength, it was his balance and punching technique...they called it a throwback style back then. Bhop is successful, even at his age, why?..because of his throwback style...throwback meaning a style from the past.

[MGUNZ48]

Yeah !!

I'm not going to jump and give the older generation credit because of who they fought.

SRL was very hittable ... he just had fast hands ... he's never fought a defensive fighter like Floyd ... he's never fought a fighter that match him in over all speed.

Floyd will go down as the best fighter ever !!


Are you nuts or something? PBF the best fighter ever??? Does he or did he ever have one punch KO power in both hands? No. Does his list of ATG's he fought even come close to SRR's? NO. Has he really ever been in a long hard fight where he had to prove his heart? No. I don't why I even answer to this nonsense???

[Brian123]

Mayrunner has not beaten any of the top ten welterweights. Why not start this argument there first?

SSR hands down.

[sweetray]

PBf has been dropped a couple of times against Hernandez and Against
Judah. Castillo was rubbed in his first fight against PBF.

[Sweet Pea]

G-rap will never be taken seriously after posting all that nonsenseHe's never been taken seriously period.

[Sweet Pea]

I think that Robinson wouldve took Floyd the distance ... but Floyd wouldve hit the very hittable Robinson.

Pep v PBF at LW wouldve been a great fight !! alot of people wouldn't appreciate the boxing but I would love to see this fight more than any fight in the history of boxing.Pep was a FW, Mayweather is a naturally bigger fighter by a good distance. What on earth makes you think Pep vs Floyd would be a good fight but that Floyd beats SRR? Why the fuck do people feel the need to make permanent trolling accounts? If you want to troll, just make it obvious to piss people off for a day, and then take your banning, like I do occasionally on other sites. But spending this much time on it is just ridiculous.

[Hatesrats]

Sugar Ray Robinson! PERIOD.

[bxrfan]

DUUUMMMBEEEST boxing prediction ever i didn realize how stupid you were until i found out the hread WOW i am spechless how can FRAUD nutlickering reach you on this level ...
***ADVISE STOP :tong on frauds genitals
Dude, what the hell, do you just search up any threads regarding Floyd and revise them, just to post shit about him?

Guys look at the date. This statement was made over five months ago, and then ganchozurdo digged this old thread up, just to hate on Mayweather.

[C Money]

:lol: ......:think .......:think .......How many times?:huh

SRR TKO's PBF. Floyd will get hit. Mid to late rounds get hurt, then OVERWHELMED. Wont b a matter of Chin:nono Will be a matter of skill, speed, will, and POWER:good Uppercut or hook on the final blows!:yep Maybe BOTH:D

The fight would be at 15 rounds NOT 12. :nono

How about floyd just fights the toughest opponents at 147 and yall stop worrying about NONSENSE. Why NONSENSE? Because aint NO WAY IN HELL:fire That PBF gets in the ring with guy's like SRR, SRL, and Hearns. He wont beat the toughest opposition IN HIS DAY:nono

[LiamE]

We'll just use it to bake a new Ray Robinson.

Now thats a plan we could run with.

PBF vs SRR cookies. Seems like a more even match up to me.

[tays001]

well of course he would beat him today . SRR is dead!



P.S. if you meant prime for prime SRR Harms HIM

[Ramshall1]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

please keep typing and exposing yourself for the retarded, nut-jockey, groupie idiot you really are. :good

[Addie]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

If he got in the ring with Robinson there is surely a chance, but he can't even get in the ring with Cotto or Margarito, so Robinson is out of the question.

[charlievint]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

It would seem....but unlike any other sport boxing use to be a weekly or monthly event for the top in the sport. At the highest levels of the sport in the golden era of boxing Their skills and craft were on point and extremely sharp given the activity of fighting monthy and somtimes weekly.....even in some cases the same week.

In boxing to stay sharp and at the top of your game activity is Key and Sugar ray was very active. He was also more determined, and just as skilled as Floyd. The one thing Sugar Ray had over Floyd is his ability to not only "BOX"...but Bang and fight as well.

No question FLoyd is great at boxing but to say he would beat The greatest in Boxing is reaching. Would be a competive fight until Floyd had to fight with Ray.

[charlievint]

Floyds never been dropped, he's never been hurt. So I dont know how you could make that distinction.

Floyd has been hurt a few times and he's been dropped twice...one was b/c of a hurt hand..the other was bc of a very fast and crisp blow by Zab....although he wasn't hurt he was droped. and Corly hurt Floyd.

[charlievint]

He was 20 years ahead of his time in ability. He looks fast because he's fighting much slower fighters.

He faught slower fighters but he also faught fighters on his speed level...or damn close to it.

The skill was key to SRR's great career and would be in a mythical match between Floyd and sRR.

[charlievint]

Speaking of chins, have you seen PBF get hurt? didnt think so. So how can you say SRR had a better chin when PBF hasnt been tested.

YES! Just watch some of his fights in the last 5 yrs and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[G_RapPBF]

Floyd has been hurt a few times and he's been dropped twice...one was b/c of a hurt hand..the other was bc of a very fast and crisp blow by Zab....although he wasn't hurt he was droped. and Corly hurt Floyd.

Mayweathers never been dropped off a punch. Atleast not officially. He went down against Hernandez when he broke his hand on Hernandez's skull. He touched a glove to the canvas when he was caught quickly by Judahs check hook, but it occured quickly and without slow motion you wouldnt know his glove touched.

Corley never hurt Floyd, he caught Floyd flush but Floyd pretty much just let Corley punch himself out.

[charlievint]

He looks fast because he was fighting alot of schmucks. I bet he didnt even train for most his fights, it just goes in there and throws some strong ass combinations and they are done. I mean seriously look at the competition he was facing. Do most of those guys look good to you for todays perspective?

Put Sugar Ray Leonard in that generation, how fast would he look?

True...but in 200+ fights you'd have to face a fair share of bums.....there aren't 200+ elite level boxers out there today. If Floyd faught 200 times for sure he'd have a loss.

[G_RapPBF]

It sounds nice in theory but if u just take a look at how SRR fights than you'll think differently:hey

I have and he was being found by Lamotta constantly with lead lefts. Although this was slightly higher in his career.

[El Matador]

Floyd Mayweather has been hurt. It's nonsense, saying he hasn't, because it's obvious he was.

Check out the Demarcus Corley fight, round four, and watch him be staggered for a short period (he came back like a champion and won, to his credit). Hell, Zab Judah KNOCKED HIM DOWN, but was not credited with it. That was a clean right hook, Mayweather's glove did touch the canvas. Later he was slightly wobbled by a left from Judah. Again, he fought back and won like a champion, but imagine a murderous puncher like Miguel Cotto landing cleanly, Zab Judah or Demarcus Corley style.

You need skill and speed to land on Mayweather- and power to make it mean something. Sugar Ray Robinson had that, and I say Robinson would knock Mayweather out later in the fight, it would be an awesome fight, but Robinson was truly a boxing artist. Mayweather is as well, but there is definitely a difference in punching power/punch resistance here.

[charlievint]

Sorry seen it. Look at the guys he's fighting, he's not even boxing, boxing, he's fighting because they are just so inferior to him he only has to use the bare minimum of technique.

On the same token Floyd has looked mediocre against some limited opp....where sugar destroys his limited foes. And if you are indicating that Sugar didn't have good Technique boxing is not something that is easily grasps by you.

[Addie]

So you just mentioned Leonards record when Im obviously talking about Robinson. Boy what a chump

Listen, explain Floyds weaknesses, all you've done is talk and you havent made one credible argument in your favor yet. I already broken down what Robinson does wrong,what does Floyd do wrong?

Seriously if you think the 175 opponents Robinson faced were even on the same playing field as the 39 opponets floyds face you are out of your mind. Im sure Floyd could fight guys with as much boxing ability as nuns week and week out and rack up 100 victores within a span of 5 years, but this is whats changed about the sport of boxing. Quality over quantity. Thats why fighters are fighting less and less because people arent paying to see a guy beat down some schmuck.

Present a credible argument or get the fuck out. Lamotta ate Robinson up with a double off balance left hand lead? You dont think Floyd who has probably the best right hand lead in boxing today wouldnt have similar success? Get the oldtimer Floyd hater dick out your mouth and be objective.

1- Claim to be the greatest fighter of all time

2 - Put money before his legacy and his fans

3 - Repeatidly claim he has "nothing to prove", despite point 1.

[charlievint]

You're forgetting the real factor here and the reason all of these threads are being made. Floyd has done something that nobody in his era or before has managed to do....he knocked out Ricky Hatton. When you have that on your cv, you better believe he can beat SRR.

LOL! you have to be joking or you are a full time Clown! Funny shit bro. Hatton is a good fighter but he's not a great fighter. He was exposed to be limited although very determined and Floyd dominated and ultimated KO'd the limited hatton...Hatton is no Jake who Ray beat 5 times out of 6 I believe.

[G_RapPBF]

True...but in 200+ fights you'd have to face a fair share of bums.....there aren't 200+ elite level boxers out there today. If Floyd faught 200 times for sure he'd have a loss.

Go to boxingrec and check out his comp. Fighters with 10+ 20+ 30+ even 40+ losses. 2 fights after fighting Kid Gavilan he fought a guy with 30 losses. 5 fights later he fought a guy with nearly 40 losses.

[G_RapPBF]

1- Claim to be the greatest fighter of all time

2 - Put money before his legacy and his fans

3 - Repeatidly claim he has "nothing to prove", despite point 1.

Stylistically, not fight management wise.


As I said before, Ray probably left himself open because alot of the opposition he had no reason to respect.

[Sweet Pea]

Stylistically, not fight management wise.


As I said before, Ray probably left himself open because alot of the opposition he had no reason to respect.The era he fought in was a MUCH better one than Floyd is fighting in now, especially given the fact that Floyd doesn't fight all the best. Neither did Ray in reality, but he fought the much better fighters of his era than Floyd did, and much better fighters in general as well.

[G_RapPBF]

On the same token Floyd has looked mediocre against some limited opp....where sugar destroys his limited foes. And if you are indicating that Sugar didn't have good Technique boxing is not something that is easily grasps by you.


No I never said Sugar Ray didnt have good technique, he obviously was one of the greatest. I said he didnt have to use any in some perhaps most of his fights. He's just walking up to and clubbering these guys.

[G_RapPBF]

The era he fought in was a MUCH better one than Floyd is fighting in now, especially given the fact that Floyd doesn't fight all the best. Neither did Ray in reality, but he fought the much better fighters of his era than Floyd did, and much better fighters in general as well.

:rofl :rofl :rofl Yeah sure the era is better sure it is. And John Sullivan could beat Lennox Lewis.

[charlievint]

Cotto ducked Floyd. Floyds never ducked Cotto. Good example though, look at welter today, compared to welter then. I mean can you even make a legit comparison, would a man stay sane doing so lol?

I agree with that. Floyd never ducked anyone....he didn't. He went a route that most of the high paid athletes do today and follow the money.

the diffrence between Ray and Floyd are that Ray is a true fighter...He faught not just for money but for the love of boxing and competition.

Floyd fights for MONEY..."Hence his Money May" nick name and he has publicly said so himself.

The mentality of boxers are very important....Floyd is just a great talent that is unmatch only to the great Ray robinson.

Skill wise they are on the level....Talent the same but heart and determination hands down is for Ray and that is the biggest indication that your theroy is a Reach. It could happen that Floyd would beat a prime Ray Robinson....however that is about as likely as snow in the sahara Desert.

[Sweet Pea]

No I never said Sugar Ray didnt have good technique, he obviously was one of the greatest. I said he didnt have to use any in some perhaps most of his fights. He's just walking up to and clubbering these guys.Exactly, he takes out the trash like it should be taken out, instead of countering off the ropes, waiting to figure out his B level opponent, and cruising to a late stoppage or Decision based on clean punching.

[TFFP]

G-Rap is a fucking clown.

Hope this helps

[El Matador]

G-Rap is a fucking clown.

Hope this helps
It does. :hey

[charlievint]

First of all Floyd wouldnt have fought 60 fights. I saw the video an 75% of the people on the video were SLOW WHITE GUYS. Who in the hell gets hit with a haymaker coming from the hip? Watch the video. Half of the time SRR starts from the Body throws 4 or 5 punch combos and works his way up to the head. I would've have picked SRR, but after that video, I would pick Floyd. When have you ever seen Floyd go BLINDLY toe-to-toe with anyone. Anyone who has traded with Floyd has paid dearly and not by being KO'd but by being outsmarted by throwing 15 punches and walloped with two or three good punches; result waste time and come away with FACE SWELLING. 12 rounds of that and you get frustrated. If they fought in that day 15 rounds and you end up with brain damage.

You adapt to your opponent....Floyd wouldn't be teeing off like he did and throwing some looping punches like he did against Gatti if that were a DLH, Cotto or Marg.

When a fighter is ultimately confident over his opponent and the skill levels are on a large disparity you'll see some amazing things take place.

You saw alot of that from the Great Roy Jones Jr.:good

[Ramshall1]

G-Rap is a Fraud Groupie and a fucking clown.

Hope this helps

That bout sums it up. :good

[Ziggy Montana]

The era he fought in was a MUCH better one than Floyd is fighting in now, especially given the fact that Floyd doesn't fight all the best. Neither did Ray in reality, but he fought the much better fighters of his era than Floyd did, and much better fighters in general as well.Robinson's "era", that's quite a long stretch, like 25 years, twice longer than Mayweather's.

Care to be a little more precise? Which segment of Robinson's era are you talking about?

[charlievint]

Nope. Take a look at cornerbacks and receivers today compared to 20-30 years ago. Same size, except receivers and corners are much faster and much stronger.

Sugar Ray was probably superior to Floyd strength wise, im not doubting that, but not speed and agility wise. Footwork goes to sugar ray. But I still think floyd had a right hand lead that would give Sugar ray problems.

Agian....boxing is a far different sport than any other sport out there.

Not to mention that the weight classes are still in use today to help with keeping fighters even in terms of size advantages. So the "Bigger stronger" arguement is very sketchy with many holes.

Plus MANY of the same training techniques and programs are still used by the "MORE ADVANCED" and BIGGER STRONGER boxers today. Aside from the nutrition programes conditioning and technique are very similar.

[charlievint]

They wouldnt be the top standard if they fought today. Sugar ray would be the only one to translate into this era. For instance, Floyd would pick Lamotta apart. Noway would he get caught with a double offbalance left like Sugar ray.

However I was talking about the majority of the bums he fought to get to 175 wins. They wouldnt amount to journeymen today. Like someone said he knocked there asses out swinging from the hip, he wasnt even displaying any technique its like he new he was just so superior he didnt have too.

All those guys would be a champion today bro. You are clueless if you honestly believe that the greats from the golden era of boxing would be nothing in today era.

Guys like Ali, Foreman and Norton would have also been top guys in the sport beating the GIANTs you feel are so physically superior.

[Sweet Pea]

:rofl :rofl :rofl Yeah sure the era is better sure it is. And John Sullivan could beat Lennox Lewis.:lol: Sullivan fought in the late 1800's, Robinson fought in the 40's and 50's. Make simpler statements next time so you don't make such a fool of yourself.

Gavilan was a better WW than any in the current division, not just the over-matched B level fighters Floyd's faced at WW. Robinson beat him twice. Along with Gavilan, he took on fighters from WW to MW the likes of Armstrong, LaMotta, Fullmer, Basilio, Graziano(say something about crudeness and I'll simply bring up Hatton, Baldomir, Gatti, Chavez, and most of Floyd's top wins), Zivic, Turpin, Olson, Angott, etc.

Compare those wins to Floyd's resume and then shut the hell up.

[G_RapPBF]

Exactly, he takes out the trash like it should be taken out, instead of countering off the ropes, waiting to figure out his B level opponent, and cruising to a late stoppage or Decision based on clean punching.

The trash that Robinson was taking out was D and E level. 30+ loss guys. Talking about guys that make Baldomir look like a p4p top 10.

[Sweet Pea]

Robinson's "era", that's quite a long stretch, like 25 years, twice longer than Mayweather's.

Care to be a little more precise? Which segment of Robinson's era are you talking about?His prime years or thereabouts. From the early 40's to the mid to late 50's.

[charlievint]

Mayweathers never been dropped off a punch. Atleast not officially. He went down against Hernandez when he broke his hand on Hernandez's skull. He touched a glove to the canvas when he was caught quickly by Judahs check hook, but it occured quickly and without slow motion you wouldnt know his glove touched.

Corley never hurt Floyd, he caught Floyd flush but Floyd pretty much just let Corley punch himself out.

Right..."offically" No, but in reality yes!!

Corley did hurt Floyd...you didn't watch the fight if you say otherwise. He was holding on and he was cleary wobbley. He recovered but there isn't any question that Floyd was hurt. I suggest you watch the fight or search for it on youtube.

[Sweet Pea]

All those guys would be a champion today bro. You are clueless if you honestly believe that the greats from the golden era of boxing would be nothing in today era.

Guys like Ali, Foreman and Norton would have also been top guys in the sport beating the GIANTs you feel are so physically superior.Wait, did he actually say Floyd would outbox and beat LaMotta easily. LaMotta, the MW and natural LHW LaMotta? Getting outboxed and beaten by a small WW? Seriously, GCrap, just stop.

[charlievint]

Go to boxingrec and check out his comp. Fighters with 10+ 20+ 30+ even 40+ losses. 2 fights after fighting Kid Gavilan he fought a guy with 30 losses. 5 fights later he fought a guy with nearly 40 losses.

Dude.....Again, these guys from back in the day were solid bro...they faguth all the time...30 losses out of 150 fights is like a fighter with 34 wins and 5 defeats. it's not that hard of a pill to swallow. You just look at this topic with a narrow point of view. Many do but it helps to understand the differences in the mentality of today from back then. Boxers today are very much about the money and less about the one on one competition and love of the sport. Some still show that appreciation of the sweet science but many are very ego centric.

[G_RapPBF]

Gavilan was a better WW than any in the current division

not just the over-matched B level fighters Floyd's faced at WW. Robinson beat him twice. Along with Gavilan, he took on fighters from WW to MW the likes of Armstrong, LaMotta, Fullmer, Basilio, Graziano

Save Gavilan and Amrstrong at welter the rest dont match up or do to well in this era of boxing. Gene Fullmer would be absolutely murdered by someone the likes of Pavlik who holds every physical advantage by a wide margin. Same with Basilio.

[Sweet Pea]

What he also doesn't seem to realize was that fighters who fought back in those days used tune ups as sparring sessions basically. They didn't train for months and months with sparring sessions to prepare for one fight. They had constant fights on the road to keep in shape, which is a main reason why you'll see a lot of bums on top old-school fighters resumes.

[charlievint]

No I never said Sugar Ray didnt have good technique, he obviously was one of the greatest. I said he didnt have to use any in some perhaps most of his fights. He's just walking up to and clubbering these guys.

Floyd does the same thing given his confidence he has over his opponent. Floyd is a very text book type of fighter, usually he is all about technique and his game plan but when he gets a guy he knows offers no challenge he will let loose and throw looping shots, uppercuts from the outside, lunges in with punches ect.

[Sweet Pea]

Save Gavilan and Amrstrong at welter the rest dont match up or do to well in this era of boxing. Gene Fullmer would be absolutely murdered by someone the likes of Pavlik who holds every physical advantage by a wide margin. Same with Basilio.Basilio is basically a bigger, stronger, tougher, harder chinned, more skilled version of Hatton. How would he not do good in today's game?

Fullmer was known for having one of the best chins of all time, and was a very effective pressure fighter/puncher. What makes you think he'd be murdered by a guy who was there to be hit at all times? You underrate these guys because they're old school and you automatically think they're primitive. Armstrong actually fought PRIOR to guys like Fullmer and Basilio, so why are they primitive but not him? Stylistically, what did he possess that they didn't? I ask you this not because I doubt him in comparison, but to see what you know of the fighters you speak about. You've shown very little knowledge thus far. I clearly pointed out crude fighters on Floyd's resume, and could continue to pick out crude or technically unsound fighters who've had success in the modern era(Mayorga, Hamed, etc). You don't think things like this through because it disproves your argument.

[G_RapPBF]

Floyd does the same thing given his confidence he has over his opponent. Floyd is a very text book type of fighter, usually he is all about technique and his game plan but when he gets a guy he knows offers no challenge he will let loose and throw looping shots, uppercuts from the outside, lunges in with punches ect.

Yeah but its still in the realm of boxing. Sugar Ray was just physically superior in all facets and if you watch its highlight vids its like a grown man beating on children.

[charlievint]

Wait, did he actually say Floyd would outbox and beat LaMotta easily. LaMotta, the MW and natural LHW LaMotta? Getting outboxed and beaten by a small WW? Seriously, GCrap, just stop.

I'm not gonna clown the guy. He obviously likes boxing but he loves Mayweather! Which many fans on this message board are guilty of. Those fans of specific fighters and not of the sport tend to have these unrealistic views.

He's not a lost hope, I think he's reading and listening but it will take a lot of logic and reasoning from guys who really do know boxing to help him out.

Of couse Mayweather would have more than his hands full with Lamotta. #1 b/c of the size and #2, #3 and #4...Lamatto was a beast, had a iron Chin and was relentless.

The shere determination and willingness to eat punches with no effect would have been mental suicide for floyd after 8 rounds. He could still win..>BUT he'd have to be on his toes and have on his best pair of track shoes to keep the Raging bull off his leather trunks.

[Sweet Pea]

Yeah but its still in the realm of boxing. Sugar Ray was just physically superior in all facets and if you watch its highlight vids its like a grown man beating on children.No, it's not, not if you watch his fights with top notch fighters like the ones I pointed out. Gavilan being a prime example once again. How did Fullmer and Basilio beat Robinson if they are so primitive? You've said that you consider Robinson modern, just not as good as Floyd(:lol: ), so what makes them primitive?

[charlievint]

Save Gavilan and Amrstrong at welter the rest dont match up or do to well in this era of boxing. Gene Fullmer would be absolutely murdered by someone the likes of Pavlik who holds every physical advantage by a wide margin. Same with Basilio.

Really? I tend to agree given that Gene, Armstrong and Gavilan are 25 to 30 pounds lighter....but Armstron would have boxed the shit out of pavlik unless Pav got in a clean punch. There are advantages with being the bigger guy who is also skilled in the sweet science. If they were similar in size your argument is shot dead.

[charlievint]

Yeah but its still in the realm of boxing. Sugar Ray was just physically superior in all facets and if you watch its highlight vids its like a grown man beating on children.

That's my point! Ray is a great talent and in his day there were very few who could match him....not b/c no one was skilled but b/c his talent level was so much higher than everyone else.

But this is boxing.....Talent is a PLUS...not the one and only thing these guys needed to be great! Alot of those guys HAD to be skilled even with 10+ losses b/c of their activity...in losses they learned, implemented new techniques and new fight statagies to get better.

Floyd is a tremendous talent and that's why he is #1 P4P TODAY. But to say he BEATs a guy who's entire life was boxing and faught more times than Floyd had in AM and Pro fights means a lot and has to be taken in to consideration.

[Jason997]

We are talking about a clearly bigger man fighting Mayweather. Mayweather beat an old Oscar, but Robinson is like a bigger, prime Oscar on steroids and It was clear to me how Oscar was able to exploit his size advantage even though his speed and accuracy are shot. It is a no brainer pick -- but it isn't fair. Floyd should be compared to the greats at 135 and 140. In that range he is right there with the ATGs.

- Jason

[G_RapPBF]

Basilio is basically a bigger, stronger, tougher, harder chinned, more skilled version of Hatton. How would he not do good in today's game?

Hatton isnt going to be fighting at Welterweight and Middlweight is he? YOu are basically saying Carmen Basilio would overpower todays fighters despite being physically smaller in every category. I fail to see how he'd beat someone like Margarito or Cotto or step up to heavy and beat the likes of Pavlik.

Fullmer was known for having one of the best chins of all time, and was a very effective pressure fighter/puncher. What makes you think he'd be murdered by a guy who was there to be hit at all times?

Kelly Pavlik has a 5 inch height advantage and a 6 inch reach advantage. Kelly Pavlik has one of the best rights in boxing today and an excellent Jab.

What would Gene Fullmer possibly do to beat a guy like Pavlik?

Armstrong actually fought PRIOR to guys like Fullmer and Basilio, so why are they primitive but not him?

Because he had natural physical gifts that would allow him to compete today. He's speed, power and the fact he never got tired and was able to fight at a high tempo for the whole fight.

I clearly pointed out crude fighters on Floyd's resume, and could continue to pick out crude or technically unsound fighters who've had success in the modern era(Mayorga, Hamed, etc). You don't think things like this through because it disproves your argument.

Most of the crude fighters in Floyds resume fought at smaller weight classes and were those able to use their physical advantages over smaller fighters. You've named guys that fought at welter and as high as middle to lightheavy. They wouldnt be able be able to impose themselves on the fighters today. Even Mayorga had an unusually long reach. Gene Fullmer and Basilio were Hatton esq and how would that help against guys like Pavlik and Cotto where their style would play right into their hands?

[G_RapPBF]

Really? I tend to agree given that Gene, Armstrong and Gavilan are 25 to 30 pounds lighter....but Armstron would have boxed the shit out of pavlik unless Pav got in a clean punch. There are advantages with being the bigger guy who is also skilled in the sweet science. If they were similar in size your argument is shot dead.

I like Pavliks jab, I think he would be able to control a smaller speedier guy.

[Ramshall1]

This guy is an utter clown and has you guys goin good. Your really waistin time on the troll.

[G_RapPBF]

No, it's not, not if you watch his fights with top notch fighters like the ones I pointed out. Gavilan being a prime example once again. How did Fullmer and Basilio beat Robinson if they are so primitive? You've said that you consider Robinson modern, just not as good as Floyd(:lol: ), so what makes them primitive?

When Fullmer and Basilio beat Robinson he was in his late 30's, obvious decline and had been inactive for a 2 years. If you watch his later fights with Jake Lamotta he's being caught with some leaping left leads that I cant see Mayweather ever being hit with.

[Sweet Pea]

Hatton isnt going to be fighting at Welterweight and Middlweight is he? YOu are basically saying Carmen Basilio would overpower todays fighters despite being physically smaller in every category. I fail to see how he'd beat someone like Margarito or Cotto or step up to heavy and beat the likes of Pavlik.I guess you missed the part where I said "bigger". That should clear things up.

As far as Margarito?:rofl

As far as Cotto? He'd have to box all night, otherwise he's in danger of being simply outdone and hurt in close.


Kelly Pavlik has a 5 inch height advantage and a 6 inch reach advantage. Kelly Pavlik has one of the best rights in boxing today and an excellent Jab.

What would Gene Fullmer possibly do to beat a guy like Pavlik?
Put the pressure on him, as Pavlik would be more than happy to stay in range. On the inside, he takes away Pavlik's range finders and use of his long arms to generate power. Pressure fighters are hell for guys like that, especially indefatiguable ones with iron chins like Fullmer. It's not like I'm saying he'd outbox him.


Because he had natural physical gifts that would allow him to compete today. He's speed, power and the fact he never got tired and was able to fight at a high tempo for the whole fight.
Basilio and Fullmer also had very good power and stamina, as well as durability. Another thing you fail to realize is that Armstrong was well smaller than both of these fighters, especially as a WW compared to Basilio. Armstrong was no speed demon by the way. He had good handspeed with his workrate, but in terms of footwork and overall speed, definitely no big advantages on a guy like Basilio.

Most of the crude fighters in Floyds resume fought at smaller weight classes and were those able to use their physical advantages over smaller fighters.Fullmer and LaMotta were both naturally bigger than Robinson, as were the majority of the MW's he faced. Someone like Basilio was the same size.

You've named guys that fought at welter and as high as middle to lightheavy. They wouldnt be able be able to impose themselves on the fighters today. Even Mayorga had an unusually long reach. Explain this in depth. It makes no sense. You gave no reasons why the wouldn't be able to impose themselves or why Mayorga was successful. Reach is useless when you throw wide, winging shots as Mayorga did.


Gene Fullmer and Basilio were Hatton esq and how would that help against guys like Pavlik and Cotto where their style would play right into their hands?
Why would it neccessarily? A fight between Fullmer and Pavlik could go Pavlik's way if Pavlik didn't rely on creating space to generate power, but he does. He doesn't throw short, compact punches like Robinson did.

Basilio is a stronger pressure fighter than Cotto, although he's not as technical, nor as good a boxer from the outside. Interesting fight, but at his own game Cotto gets outdone.

What you're failing to realize when I compared Basilio to Hatton were all the other variables I threw into it, such as size, strength, skill, etc. Hatton is basically a Lite version of Basilio. Very Lite.

[Sweet Pea]

When Fullmer and Basilio beat Robinson he was in his late 30's, obvious decline and had been inactive for a 2 years. If you watch his later fights with Jake Lamotta he's being caught with some leaping left leads that I cant see Mayweather ever being hit with.Mayweather had better defense than Robinson yes, Robinson was never known as a defensive genius, but rather an offensive one. I've always considered him a perfect example of the phrase "the best defense is a good offense".

Yes, he was past his prime when he lost to them, but not shot yet. He still was the same stylistically, and obviously packed just as good a punch to be able to KO iron-jawed Fullmer, he just wasn't the athlete he used to be. And are you speaking of his lay-off after the Maxim fight? He had plenty of tune-ups leading up to the fights with Basilio and Fullmer.

[charlievint]

I like Pavliks jab, I think he would be able to control a smaller speedier guy.

Pav's got a very good jab and it's a very educated one...but what about over all speed and reflexes...not to mention the supreme Defense that was Armstrongs greatest asset? That would definitly make it hard for the taller and slower guy to fing his mark.

Pav would have to work his jab and work off his jab throwing punches in bunches to control the pace. But for a bigger guy it's hard to throw so many puches.

Stamina isn't really a factor for Pav b/c the guy is very conditioned but the more you MISS...the more energy it takes. Pav would be punching DOWN which he is not use to making it harder to be accurate.

[Caliboxing]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.



From what I've seen Floyd is not stronger or faster than Robinson. When Robinson was around Floyd's age he was already fighting at middleweight. Robinson had every advantage over Floyd such as speed, height, power. Today's training techniques and supplements are overrated as proven by a lot of today's fighters. I can't logically see a way that Floyd beats Robinson.

[charlievint]

When Fullmer and Basilio beat Robinson he was in his late 30's, obvious decline and had been inactive for a 2 years. If you watch his later fights with Jake Lamotta he's being caught with some leaping left leads that I cant see Mayweather ever being hit with.

Lamotta was great with working the body! Those leaping left hooks were being landed in the Championship rounds after a brutal fight where Robinson was BANGING with Jake.....Robinson is a boxer but like a Erik Morales his fighters instinct sometimes got the better of him when he was hit and hurt. Banging with a Jake Lamotta isn't in anyones best interest. He'll eat 5 punches to land one of his own and one punch from Jake was like a "two peice"

[charlievint]

Mayweather had better defense than Robinson yes, Robinson was never known as a defensive genius, but rather an offensive one. I've always considered him a perfect example of the phrase "the best defense is a good offense".

Yes, he was past his prime when he lost to them, but not shot yet. He still was the same stylistically, and obviously packed just as good a punch to be able to KO iron-jawed Fullmer, he just wasn't the athlete he used to be. And are you speaking of his lay-off after the Maxim fight? He had plenty of tune-ups leading up to the fights with Basilio and Fullmer.

He had very good "D"....his mentality was more the reason for his "lack of D". But no doubt Ray was a OFFENSIVE Minded fighter.

[Lance_Uppercut]

The trash that Robinson was taking out was D and E level. 30+ loss guys. Talking about guys that make Baldomir look like a p4p top 10.

Typical boxrec ranger. :patsch


You're basically talking shit about fighters you've never seen and are only basing what you say on their win/loss. Not that it needed to be shown, but this clearly shows you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[G_RapPBF]

From what I've seen Floyd is not stronger or faster than Robinson. When Robinson was around Floyd's age he was already fighting at middleweight. Robinson had every advantage over Floyd such as speed, height, power. Today's training techniques and supplements are overrated as proven by a lot of today's fighters. I can't logically see a way that Floyd beats Robinson.

I actually made this post months ago, and I might have been drunk. Apparently I have some stalker. :huh

I believe Robinson would beat Floyd and obviously Robinson was extremely physically gifted. I still dont believe his era was close to this era in terms of talent however.

[G_RapPBF]

Typical boxrec ranger. :patsch


You're basically talking shit about fighters you've never seen and are only basing what you say on their win/loss. Not that it needed to be shown, but this clearly shows you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Im sorry I never took the time to watch film on guys with 30+ losses, :nut You know thinking there was a reason these guys had 30+ losses in the first place, you know, maybe because they werent good lol.

But yeah obviously Im underrating them, when Robinson bashed their heads into the canvas they were just having an off night. Happens to everyone.

[acb]

I believe Robinson would beat Floyd and obviously Robinson was extremely physically gifted.

Well then I am a little thrown by the thread title. You have since changed your mind?

May I ask why?

[Dunks]

He looks fast even when the footage is in slow-motion. Robison was prolly the fastest guy above 126 I've ever seen on tape.

um Roy Jones Jr?:huh

[Caliboxing]

I actually made this post months ago, and I might have been drunk. Apparently I have some stalker. :huh

I believe Robinson would beat Floyd and obviously Robinson was extremely physically gifted. I still dont believe his era was close to this era in terms of talent however.


You must have been drunk to post that.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Im sorry I never took the time to watch film on guys with 30+ losses, :nut You know thinking there was a reason these guys had 30+ losses in the first place, you know, maybe because they werent good lol.

But yeah obviously Im underrating them, when Robinson bashed their heads into the canvas they were just having an off night. Happens to everyone.

I hope you realize how stupid it is to make statements like that w/o ever seeing them fight. You know nothing about any of those fighters, yet make comments like you do. :-(

[Dunks]

I actually made this post months ago, and I might have been drunk. Apparently I have some stalker. :huh

I believe Robinson would beat Floyd and obviously Robinson was extremely physically gifted. I still dont believe his era was close to this era in terms of talent however.

I believe Old School Fighters were "mentally" tougher than todays fighters by far

[BlackWater]

No. Floyd is good, but not that good.

[G_RapPBF]

Well then I am a little thrown by the thread title. You have since changed your mind?

May I ask why?

I made that post after watching his later fights with Lamotta, where he was being caught with punches I didnt think Floyd prays for when he steps into the ring. Namely leaping left leads. Which lead me to believe he wasnt as fast as people say he was, it was just the competition he was up against which to my eyes was lacking.

I've watched some of his older fights,such as Turpin, and he was a superb physical specimen regardless of era.

Plus the fact that Floyd is a smaller welter and it would be hard for Floyd to outbox Sugar Ray from a distance.

[acb]

I made that post after watching his later fights with Lamotta, where he was being caught with punches I didnt think Floyd prays for when he steps into the ring. Namely leaping left leads. Which lead me to believe he wasnt as fast as people say he was, it was just the competition he was up against which to my eyes was lacking.

I've watched some of his older fights,such as Turpin, and he was a superb physical specimen regardless of era.

Plus the fact that Floyd is a smaller welter and it would be hard for Floyd to outbox Sugar Ray from a distance.

Your sort of a strange poster in a sense.

You say a good amount of dumb shit, but your clearly not a dumb guy. I find that once you have your bearings you can be reasonable.

Are you new to boxing, or just love Floyd, or just get drunk and post a lot... what gives? Don't take this personaly either, I am just being forward about things.

[G_RapPBF]

Your sort of a strange poster in a sense.

You say a good amount of dumb shit, but your clearly not a dumb guy. .

You probably think I say dumbshit when I get heated with Floyd haters. But I'll explain why I think Floyd will win always.

I've been into boxing for about a decade now.

[charlievint]

No. Floyd is good, but not that good.

Floyd is great! But I don't think he's better than the #1 ATG of boxing.

[acb]

You probably think I say dumbshit when I get heated with Floyd haters. But I'll explain why I think Floyd will win always.

I've been into boxing for about a decade now.

By the way, who did you take in the thread yesterday at '47 to beat Floyd all time?

[brooklyn1550]

By the way, who did you take in the thread yesterday at '47 to beat Floyd all time?

Let's bump that thread up. I loved the debates that took place. Maybe we could get some others to add their thoughts.

[G_RapPBF]

By the way, who did you take in the thread yesterday at '47 to beat Floyd all time?

Hearns not even close
Leonard
Robinson
Mosley
And Im leaning towards Tito

I think Floyd beats Duran and Whittaker.

[acb]

Let's bump that thread up. I loved the debates that took place. Maybe we could get some others to add their thoughts.

You wrote a book in that thread.

[BlueApollo]

please explain where im wrong. Are you saying the guys Sugar Ray destroyed were top of the barrel LOL!

Get real. They were bums. He was just athletically superior, he didnt even have to box with most of him, he just fought.
I...cannot... believe... that THIS argument comes out of the mouth of a a Floyd fan. The guy who fought Gavilan, LaMotta, Armstrong, and Basilio is being criticized for level of opposition compared to the fighter who spent years of his prime fighting Gatti and Bruseles.

What the hell is that?

Honestly, I think Floyd is far too skilled to have been noncompetitve with SRR. But some of the arguments people make just blow me away...

[G_RapPBF]

I...cannot... believe... that THIS argument comes out of the mouth of a a Floyd fan. The guy who fought Gavilan, LaMotta, Armstrong, and Basilio is being criticized for level of opposition compared to the fighter who spent years of his prime fighting Gatti and Bruseles.

What the hell is that?

Years of his prime? Floyd stint at 140 was the shortest of his career. A little over a year. Thats because he couldnt get Tszyu, Cotto or Hatton.

[Maxmomer]

You're a douche bag.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Years of his prime? Floyd stint at 140 was the shortest of his career. A little over a year. Thats because he couldnt get Tszyu, Cotto or Hatton.
5 Months? Try a year. But that was followed by a fight with Mitchell, himself a career JrWW.


BTW...nice job quicly changing your post.

[G_RapPBF]

5 Months? Try a year. But that was followed by a fight with Mitchell, himself a career JrWW.

:nut I edited before you posted. Please get off my sac, its embarrassing.

[Shifty107]

I think you have to analyze their styles before you can come to this kind of conclusion.

You also have to put it into perspective, that athletes have become bigger, and stronger, but what difference does that make when there are weight classes?

I could understand your argument in regards to heavyweights, and maybe if they were competing in track, but other than that, this makes no sense.

If you were to say, I think Mayweather would be able to beat Robinson because Robinson had trouble with guys that had a stiff jab and a lot of movement, I might be slightly inclined to agree with at least part of your statement.

In the end though, I still gotta go with SRR.


:good

[Lance_Uppercut]

:nut I edited before you posted. Please get off my sac, its embarrassing.

I was simply correcting you when your post WAS INCORRECT. Actling like a pissed women is even more embarressing.

[Gandul]

Today. Simply because athletes as time has proven get stronger and faster as the decades go by. In basketball, soccer, football, and yes this has to be true for boxing aswell.

Sugar Ray was the best P4P fighter ever by a large margin, but if he fought many fighters today he would be outclasses simply because they are much faster and stronger then the fighters Sugar Ray fought back in his day.

What do you think? This seems like simply logic to me.

Are you kidding me??? Are you really posting this??? Who ever thinks that Floyd can beat SSR f***s his dad in the ass...

[Tu papa]

The only sport where people cant make the argument that old times were better is track and other timed sports. You cant say it in track because ther is proof in the times ie records they make.

Humans get better with time. Training is one reason. A SRL trained today would be a lot better than a SRL of 40 years ago.

I dont doubt that todays PBF would beat the SRL os 40 years ago.

[cfizzl3]

We've found better ways to train, but athletes don't necessarily train harder. So yes, fighters might be altogether more explosive, but they are not faster or hit harder.

Also keep in mind SRR was trained to go more rounds, and he was MORE natural as a welterweight.

I can't see PBF doing this strictly because BOXING ability, they're the same.

Power, I give to SRR. Reach, SRR. Workrate, SRR.

I'll give defense and Speed to Floyd.

I give pure athleticism to Floyd, but in terms of ability and god given talent, Ray Robinson wins.

As Roger Mayweather says, "9/10 skills pay the bills" and I doubt Floyd Mayweather has a punchers chance against SRR.

So 'nuff said.

[CASH_718]

Power: SRR
Speed: PBF
Defense: PBF
Footwork: SRR
Chin: toss up

I've wathced Sugar Ray and if you watch Lamotta vs Sugar Ray 1 you will see Lamotta catching him with 2 and even 3 straight left hand jabs in a row. That a fighter like Mayweather would counter punch to pieces. Mayweather wakes up in the morning wishing someone would throw 3 straight left hand jabs in a row at him.

Why is it so hard to believe. There is no doubt that the worst NFL team today would destroy the best NFL team 50 years ago. Why is it any different in boxing. Not saying Sugar Ray would get destroyed by anyone because he was obviously about 20 years ahead of his time in athletic ability, but come on.You do know that Lamotta was a middleweight at the time and Robinson still a Welter right??? Lamotta out weighed him by 23 pounds.

That's like Mayweather at 130 fighting Mike McCallum at 154.

[SgrRyLeonard]

Robinson fought and beat the best welterweights of his era; Mayweather has yet to fight the best welterweights of his. Plus Mayweather has never faced anyone with the combination of power, speed, and punching accuracy that Robinson has. Robinson also beat Willie Pep (one of the greatest defensive fighters in history) in the amateurs. Ray was better in every category than the DeLahoya that gave Mayweather a competitive fight.

[CASH_718]

Floyds never been dropped, he's never been hurt. So I dont know how you could make that distinction.Floyd's also never been hit by the people that hit Robinson. Floyd's also never had to go 15 rounds.

It's not that we can't question older fighters but your questioning possibly THE GREATEST fighter ever. AND Robinson was a very big and natural Welterweight there is no way Floyd beats him.

[CASH_718]

Speaking of chins, have you seen PBF get hurt? didnt think so. So how can you say SRR had a better chin when PBF hasnt been tested.*cough* Corley *cough*