Roy Jones at 160 or 168 beats any boxer in history P4P

[Pimp C]

Roy Jones at 160 & 168 was a one of a kind fighter a true boxing god blessed with world class handspeed and reflexes. He could move in an out slip punches throw combos, counter and had KO power in both hands he could do it all. He often toyed with people in the ring and outclassed just about everyone he faced. His clinic on Toney was a thing of beauty seldom seen especially against Toney who was highly ranked P4P at the time. IMO he would beat SRR, Ali, Duran, Chavez and Pep P4P speaking of course. Quite simply no one beats him period.

[brooklyn1550]

He was great...while he didn't accomplish that much at 160, head to head, he matches up very well against Robinson, Hagler, Monzon, Greb, Cerdan, LaMotta, Zale, Burley, etc. Could he beat any one of them? Yes, however, I think Hagler would have given him all he could handle. At 168, I don't think anybody beats him.

[kg0208]

He is beatable at 160 by some of the ATG.....but not 168.

[Thread Stealer]

Roy was a little green and inexperienced @ 160. He would be bigger @ 160 than someone like Hagler, and he had his incredible speed and unpredictable style. But he didn't have his experience against lefties until later. He'd still give Hagler problems, Marvin might have to go back to the attacking style he did against Hearns instead of his usual patient, boxer-puncher style. That's a tough matchup.

I don't know if he beats Monzon either, or a pre-dancing career Ray Robinson @ 160.

Haven't seen much of Burley and some of the others to really judge.

I don't know of any super middleweights (the division is new) that I'd pick over RJJ at 168.

[Mega Lamps]

Overrated.

[kg0208]

Overrated.

He is overrated at these weights because of?

[China_hand_Joe]

Roy Jones at 160 & 168 was a one of a kind fighter a true boxing god blessed with world class handspeed and reflexes. He could move in an out slip punches throw combos, counter and had KO power in both hands he could do it all. He often toyed with people in the ring and outclassed just about everyone he faced. His clinic on Toney was a thing of beauty seldom seen especially against Toney who was highly ranked P4P at the time. IMO he would beat SRR, Ali, Duran, Chavez and Pep P4P speaking of course. Quite simply no one beats him period.Even with Roy's steroids, he'd be given a load of trouble by Joe Calzaghe.

[kg0208]

Even with Roy's steroids, he'd be given a load of trouble by Joe Calzaghe.

No, he wouldn't. It's as simple as that. Nunn poses more of a threat.

[brooklyn1550]

Jones would win a wide UD over Calzaghe

kg is right about Michael Nunn - he gives Jones at 160 and Hopkins at 160 a lot of problems. He was a great boxer - kind of like Tommy Hearns without the devestating power.

[Thread Stealer]

No, he wouldn't. It's as simple as that. Nunn poses more of a threat.

At 160, I think Nunn would give most middleweights in history problems. That speed, being a lefty, height, unpredictable style would give problems to just about anyone IMO.

[faisal]

glen johnson smacked that bitch up good

[China_hand_Joe]

At 160, I think Nunn would give most middleweights in history problems. That speed, being a lefty, height, unpredictable style would give problems to just about anyone IMO.He is kind of like a slow Calzaghe then?

[Pimp C]

Even with Roy's steroids, he'd be given a load of trouble by Joe Calzaghe.
I'm a big Calzaghe fan but he doesn't stand a chance here. He would win one or two rounds at best against Roy.

[Fab2333]

Berbick smacked Ali up good, Camacho smacked up Leonard good, Archer smacked up Robinson good, what does it matter? All these guys(and Jones) were easily past their primes when they lost, after reigning for over a decade.

:good

[Fab2333]

He is kind of like a slow Calzaghe then?

slow calzaghe :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
Roy in his prime would get arrested for what he would have done to Calzaghe
168 Roy is prolly has the fastest hands to ever lace up boxing gloves. Calzaghe is a fraud. Im not that much of a fan. Until he starts to beat fighters who have names. Only fighter he beat was Jef Lacy that people actually know. Fight in America for a change, and take on some elite fighters, and then he gets my respect

[Thread Stealer]

He is kind of like a slow Calzaghe then?

No, Nunn actually won his title by dethroning someone instead of winning it by beating a late replacement to win a vacant belt.

And it took him 8 months, not 8 years, before facing another world champion in his division.

And Kalambay was better than anyone Calzaghe ever beat.

[Smazz20]

slow calzaghe :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl
Roy in his prime would get arrested for what he would have done to Calzaghe
168 Roy is prolly has the fastest hands to ever lace up boxing gloves. Calzaghe is a fraud. Im not that much of a fan. Until he starts to beat fighters who have names. Only fighter he beat was Jef Lacy that people actually know. Fight in America for a change, and take on some elite fighters, and then he gets my respect


Your an American then, yeah?

[kg0208]

Your an American then, yeah?

Or he isn't from England....the only place in the world who would disagree with Jones being better than Calzaghe.

[Fab2333]

Or he isn't from England....the only place in the world who would disagree with Jones being better than Calzaghe.

:rofl:rofl:rofl:good

[Fab2333]

Your an American then, yeah?

you actually believe that Joe Calzaghe is better than RJJ at 168 pounds when Roy was in his prime? Like do you honestly believe that?

[Smazz20]

Or he isn't from England....the only place in the world who would disagree with Jones being better than Calzaghe.


Or Wales:yep

BTW, i'm Irish and I don't disagree with Jones being better than Calzaghe. What I disagree with is crap about fighting "elite" fighters in America.

You yourself have said many times that Jones was already at LH by the ime Calzaghe was a name. So how could that fight have happened?

Hopkins asked for 3 million dollars to fight Calzaghe in America. It was accepted. Then he doubled his asking price!! He then jumped not 1 but 2 divisions to fight the legendary Tarver.

What other elite fighters could Calzaghe have faced in America?

[Smazz20]

you actually believe that Joe Calzaghe is better than RJJ at 168 pounds when Roy was in his prime? Like do you honestly believe that?

No. I simply hate shite talk about how America is full of elite fighters and how anyone who wants to be considered elite has to fight there.

[kg0208]

Or Wales:yep

BTW, i'm Irish and I don't disagree with Jones being better than Calzaghe. What I disagree with is crap about fighting "elite" fighters in America.

You yourself have said many times that Jones was already at LH by the ime Calzaghe was a name. So how could that fight have happened?

Hopkins asked for 3 million dollars to fight Calzaghe in America. It was accepted. Then he doubled his asking price!! He then jumped not 1 but 2 divisions to fight the legendary Tarver.

What other elite fighters could Calzaghe have faced in America?
In his weight class? He could have fought ANY of the other champions. That would have eliminated any doubt. He also could have moved up or down to fight someone else.

I thought you were disagreeing with Jones being better than Calzaghe, not the entirety of the post. My fault...:deal

Fighting elite fighters in the US isn't necessarily fighting elite American fighters BTW.

[Fab2333]

No. I simply hate shite talk about how America is full of elite fighters and how anyone who wants to be considered elite has to fight there.
name me all of the elite fighters that Joe Calzaghe has faced. Jeff Lacy wasnt even an elite fighter IMO. All he had was a name at the time. But I will give you that one. Other than that name the elite fighters he fought. Cuz I dont know who they are:huh

[Lostmykeys]

If you are saying that RJJ at 160 beats anyone in history P4P you are wrong

If you are saying that RJJ beats anyone at 160 or 168 in his prime then you are right.

[Smazz20]

name me all of the elite fighters that Joe Calzaghe has faced. Jeff Lacy wasnt even an elite fighter IMO. All he had was a name at the time. But I will give you that one. Other than that name the elite fighters he fought. Cuz I dont know who they are:huh

I never said he faced an elite fighter. I said, "who could he have fought during his 10 year reign as 168 champion that would make him elite".

There is only one person he's missing on his record and thats Ottke.

[Fab2333]

I never said he faced an elite fighter. I said, "who could he have fought during his 10 year reign as 168 champion that would make him elite".

There is only one person he's missing on his record and thats Ottke.
ok well let me ask you another ? then
Being as how you just admitted that he never really fought any elite fighters. And yet he is still undefeated. Do you think that his record is falsified, with basically hand picked opponents? and does he deserve all the praise he gets for having that WBO belt so long?

[Guru_Too_You]

No, Nunn actually won his title by dethroning someone instead of winning it by beating a late replacement to win a vacant belt.

And it took him 8 months, not 8 years, before facing another world champion in his division.

And Kalambay was better than anyone Calzaghe ever beat.

Muahahahahaha.

Get Em EB.

[Smazz20]

In his weight class? He could have fought ANY of the other champions. That would have eliminated any doubt. He also could have moved up or down to fight someone else.

I thought you were disagreeing with Jones being better than Calzaghe, not the entirety of the post. My fault...:deal

Fighting elite fighters in the US isn't necessarily fighting elite American fighters BTW.

He could of yes. I agree with that. I would loved to of seen him go to Germany and pummel Ottke. That is the fight that would of shut up alot of people over the years. Now, he needs to fight Kessler. He can't retire without that fight imo.

As regards to fighting in America. I agree on that point also but he makes more money fighting in the U.K. He should of made ****** get him fights in America years ago. Even with his current record, had he of fought the American fighters in their hometown's, he;d look considerably better.

[Guru_Too_You]

Original Poster said Pound for Pound Roy beats any boxer ever.

I must disagree.

Take a 135 pound Duran and make him 168 pounds and he destroys Jones.

Take a 147 pound version of Sugar Ray Robinson and he destroys Jones. Hell SRR at 147 had Jones' power and speed COMBINED with solid technique.

Take a 122 pound version of Henry Armstrong and he would pummel Jones much the way Glenn Johnson did, only faster.

And there are plenty more that I would give a fair shot at beating Jones as well.

[Fab2333]

Original Poster said Pound for Pound Roy beats any boxer ever.

I must disagree.

Take a 135 pound Duran and make him 168 pounds and he destroys Jones.

Take a 147 pound version of Sugar Ray Robinson and he destroys Jones. Hell SRR at 147 had Jones' power and speed COMBINED with solid technique.

Take a 122 pound version of Henry Armstrong and he would pummel Jones much the way Glenn Johnson did, only faster.

And there are plenty more that I would give a fair shot at beating Jones as well.

Well I agree with the fact that Jones wouldnt beat any fighter ever. Thats a bit of a stretch.

[Smazz20]

ok well let me ask you another ? then
Being as how you just admitted that he never really fought any elite fighters. And yet he is still undefeated. Do you think that his record is falsified, with basically hand picked opponents? and does he deserve all the praise he gets for having that WBO belt so long?


Reid, Woodhall, Eubank, Mitchell, Brewer, Sheika, Veit, Lacy. None of them (Eubank was, but not when they fought) were "elite". But they were far from handpicked opponents. They were one level below being elite. He could of pushed to get unification with previous champs but that was more to do with FW although, again, I must state that Calzaghe employs him, not the other way around.

Regardless of what you may think, Calzaghe is an elite fighter. He has beeen handed a platinum bar in the shape of Kessler as this is the fight(s) that will cement his legacy. Kessler is still quite young and after Calzaghe can further his own career.

[China_hand_Joe]

I'm not English, Welsh, Italian, American, Danish or Australian thus my lack of bias means I am more qualified than most to comment on RJJ vs Calzaghe.



People tend to get carried away with RJJ after watching the highlights, where for spells lasting a few rounds he is untouchable.

Calzaghe own quickness would mean Jones usual rountine of completely out speeding his opponent alone wouldn't be enough. Far slower fighters than have landed punches on Jones (Hopkin's for example), so lets not pretent Jones can run away with it.

It would be a close fight, where Calzaghe's superior stamina and heart are the deciding factor late on in the fight. Calzaghe decimates Roy Jones' very soul.

[Fab2333]

Reid, Woodhall, Eubank, Mitchell, Brewer, Sheika, Veit, Lacy. None of them (Eubank was, but not when they fought) were "elite". But they were far from handpicked opponents. They were one level below being elite. He could of pushed to get unification with previous champs but that was more to do with FW although, again, I must state that Calzaghe employs him, not the other way around.

Regardless of what you may think, Calzaghe is an elite fighter. He has beeen handed a platinum bar in the shape of Kessler as this is the fight(s) that will cement his legacy. Kessler is still quite young and after Calzaghe can further his own career.

To each his own, you think he is an elite fighter, I dont.

[Guru_Too_You]

I'm not English, Welsh, Italian, American, Danish or Australian thus my lack of bias means I am more qualified than most to comment on RJJ vs Calzaghe.



People tend to get carried away with RJJ after watching the highlights, where for spells lasting a few rounds he is untouchable.

Calzaghe own quickness would mean Jones usual rountine of completely out speeding his opponent alone wouldn't be enough. Far slower fighters than have landed punches on Jones (Hopkin's for example), so lets not pretent Jones can run away with it.

It would be a close fight, where Calzaghe's superior stamina and heart are the deciding factor late on in the fight. Calzaghe decimate Roy Jones' very soul.

LOL.

Thanks for the afternoon laugh my friend.

[Pimp C]

If you are saying that RJJ at 160 beats anyone in history P4P you are wrong

If you are saying that RJJ beats anyone at 160 or 168 in his prime then you are right.
I'm saying he beats anyone at 160 & 168 in history P4P.

[hopkinsfan07]

i think he could hang with anyone at 160 but would lose some At 168 hes the top dog

[Pimp C]

Original Poster said Pound for Pound Roy beats any boxer ever.

I must disagree.

Take a 135 pound Duran and make him 168 pounds and he destroys Jones.

Take a 147 pound version of Sugar Ray Robinson and he destroys Jones. Hell SRR at 147 had Jones' power and speed COMBINED with solid technique.

Take a 122 pound version of Henry Armstrong and he would pummel Jones much the way Glenn Johnson did, only faster.

And there are plenty more that I would give a fair shot at beating Jones as well.
That's exactly what I'm getting at Guru. I don't see any boxer with the combo of speed, power & reflexes of a Roy Jones at 160-168. He was a god there and I feel no one in boxing history beats him. He would fustrate Duran much like SRL did but had more power P4P than SRL.

[Guru_Too_You]

That's exactly what I'm getting at Guru. I don't see any boxer with the combo of speed, power & reflexes of a Roy Jones at 160-168. He was a god there and I feel no one in boxing history beats him. He would fustrate Duran much like SRL did but had more power P4P than SRL.

Yes but what happened when both Duran and SRL were given enough time to train properly? Duran waxed that ass.

But yes, there are very few who would even be able to compete with RJJ at 160 and 168, and I think that the lot of them that would have been discussed already.

I thought you meant everyone ever, not just 160-168.

[faisal]

Berbick smacked Ali up good, Camacho smacked up Leonard good, Archer smacked up Robinson good, what does it matter? All these guys(and Jones) were easily past their primes when they lost, after reigning for over a decade.
he wasnt a complete fighter, in my mind a real fighter is supposed to have some of everything speed,power, good chin etc, jones only had a few of those attributes he was a great fighter but not a complete one, jones relied so much on speed he never managed to get caught by a good right hand or a decent left hook. glen finally showed to the world that without all that fancy speed roy was an average joe.
as soon as he hit his late tweties his speed dropped like a bad habbit and so did his performance.

[Pimp C]

Yes but what happened when both Duran and SRL were given enough time to train properly? Duran waxed that ass.

But yes, there are very few who would even be able to compete with RJJ at 160 and 168, and I think that the lot of them that would have been discussed already.

I thought you meant everyone ever, not just 160-168.
I do mean everyone ever.

[China_hand_Joe]

he wasnt a complete fighter, in my mind a real fighter is supposed to have some of everything speed,power, good chin etc, jones only had a few of those attributes he was a great fighter but not a complete one, jones relied so much on speed he never managed to get caught by a good right hand or a decent left hook. glen finally showed to the world that without all that fancy speed roy was an average joe.
as soon as he hit his late tweties his speed dropped like a bad habbit and so did his performance.Put prime Jones in with Calzaghe and it is basically like he is losing his speed (relative to his usual opponent). Vs Calzaghe, Roy suddenly becomes that shot Jones.

[FlatNose]

In another era, Jones would have been an interesting fighter to see.He was just too quick for most mortals.He could beat bigger guys with his speed.But alas,the Jones of the recent era cheated fans of some really interesting matches.He hand picked too many opponents.Beating Ruiz was a feat for sure, but what about Lennox Lewis? If he was fighting in the 70's, thats like beating George Chuvalo and ignoring Ali.For all his blather you would think he beat Joe Louis, Jack Johnson , and Sonny Liston.

[Thread Stealer]

"I don't believe in that pound for pound junk"- George Foreman


However, here's a go at it, some of the fighters I'd make a favorite over Roy Jones:

I would make a lightweight Roberto Duran a favorite over Roy Jones.

I would make a light heavyweight Michael Spinks a slight favorite over Roy Jones.

The films of Ray Robinson @ 147 that I've seen are grainy and short so I don't know about that, but I pick Ray Leonard @ 147 to be a favorite over RJJ.

All pound-for-pound, of course (Spinks can be p4p or at 175, for that matter).

[kg0208]

He fought a very good but not great fighter in Toney at 168. Thats his best opposition there. And folks boxing history #1 no he didnt kill Toney, stop watching highlights of that left hook that knock an off balance Toney down. Again Toney did not get KOed in round 1.

At 160 he fought only one great fighter who hasnt peaked yet BHOP, the rest are mediocre competition. Yes its not his fault but they are still mediocre opponents. Boxing lesson no 2, BHOP did not get dismantled in that fight, its a boring UD and I felt like BHOP was a bit tentative. Trust me it wasnt a highlight reel of ROYs skill, but youd rather believe that. I understand.

Lastly, people should stop defying the law of physics when rooting for your boy, not in a million years would I think that Hagler, SRL and especially SRR wont be able to hit Roy with a few shots. To think that is disrespectful to such real great fighters. Now close your eyes, think of Hagler landing a couple of bombs like he did to Hearns, just two shots. Yes he will get hit but he will find his mark. Now think of those shots landing on Jones. What do you think will happen?? Physics

How bout logic, if Hagler has a granite chin and gets hit by Roy whats the probabilty of him going down would it be less that the other way around??? I'll take Hagler
Your argument is more than nonsensical. It's one sided bias.

Jones DID destroy Toney, who was a great fighter at 168, not a good one. He was ranked just as high and had already beaten more great fighters than your current favorite fighter Pacman. And you consider him great. Beating him 10-2 on many scorecards....that is destruction.

He fought 12 times at 168....11 I believe ended in KO.

As for your Hopkins theory....no one knows when Prime Hopkins is. So no one knows how green he was. Jones was also not prime yet. On top of this, Jones beat him 8-4 with one hand for half the fight. As a matter of fact, Jones was easily winning the first half of the fight until his hand was noticably injured. And Hopkins was tentative NOT through his own doing, but because Jones made him wary, since coming in at Jones before he reached the LHW division (where he fought fighters larger than himself) got you tattooed and usually without a chance to retaliate. BTW, Hopkins WAS in his physical prime.

Lastly, you totally exxagerrated. No one said Hagler or SRL wouldn't hit Jones. But Jones also was never hurt or even staggered until he reach the LHW division. Neither SRL or Hagler are larger than Jones, the opposite being true in fact. They would have hit Jones, he would have hit them. To argue that Hagler would have simply hit Jones and he would have gone down is showing quite a lack of knowledge of Pre Tarver Jones. There is nothing establishing that Hagler would have dropped Jones with a flush shot. Other fighters hit him flush with no effect at that weight.

[kg0208]

First your argument is lost, I would never state Pac will beat everyone at any weight. These kind of statements are reserve for the "TRUE" greats of the game who has fought everyone. Pac is great in his division "NOW" coz he will be favored against everyone til he loses. But against Pernell, Arguello, Duran, not so sure Pacs even close to those guys.

Toney was never great even at that weight, he was bettr at 160 thats a fact. Nevertheless people will remember Toney as a very "Good" fighter. Hagler, Hearns, He wasn't. McCallum in his prime was greater than Toney and ROY but no one mentions him.

Lastly I never said that Hagler or SRL cant hit Jones, I meant to say that they "will" beat Jones. And your argument that feather fisted Glen Johnson could drop Jones but not Hagler or Hearns??? Heres biology 101, reflexes, speed and strenght come and go. But if your chin is weak, it is weak, nothing to do with age.

Its simple physics, weak chin cannot withstand power.

You just told me that Hagler will eventually be able to tag Jones, then you tell me that Jones cannot be knockdown hes 10 pounds bigger??

Now Johnson knocks Jones out, then you imply Johnson hits harder than Hagler which no one believes. Then you imply when you get old your chin also gets weak.

Then you say that other fighters hit him flush at that weight, which is it??? was he so fast and his reflexes are so great thats why he cant get hit flush or RJJ has a granite chin at that weight?

First off, don't toss out some BS about where Pacman ranks and who he could and couldn't beat. You consider Pacman a great fighter. Toney at the time he fought Jones was Top 2 P4P and a 2 division champion who had disposed of many good fighters. He was no better at 160 than he was at 168, your simply guessing that to make your argument stand up. Toney was never great? You lose any credibility in this argument there. Look at the fighers he beat before he fought Jones.

I never said Jones wouldn't be hit by Hagler or SRL. As a matter of fact, I never said half the BS you posted. My post that you quoted was only one sentence long.

As for your Physics lesson, let me tell you something. You are not dealing in absolutes. Yes, chin CAN go away. Mercer's punch resistance has lessened. When your body deteriorates, the WHOLE body does.

Case and point. Do you think Johnson hits harder than Toney or Ruiz or even Hopkins? They all caught Jones flush, to no avail. BTW, absolutely I expect you to believe that 10lbs (and it's 15lbs from MW to LHW) can make a difference. Do you not watch boxing? Of course fighters chins are better at their natural weights. That IS why there are weight classes.

That last bit of crap was just horrible. I never said Jones doesn't get hit flush. And I never implied the BS that you implied. There are guys who have KO'd fighters that harder punchers could not stop. For you to imply that suddenly means they hit harder? That's just dumb. I can go get a list of fighters that Thomas Hearns didn't KO, who were then KO'd by far weaker punchers. Does that imply that the weaker puncher hits harder?

[Shake]

At 168, nobody beats a prime Roy Jones Jr. He was something special -- a gifted athlete who could have done a number of things other than boxing.

At 160, there are a few candidates, like Marvin Hagler, but I still wouldn't favor them.