Is Roy Jones Jr. The Greatest Super-Middleweight Ever? [Archive]

omega dega Doom

07-03-2007, 07:16 PM

brooklyn1550

07-03-2007, 07:17 PM

If Calzaghe beats Kessler, I will consider him the best 168 pounder ever

Sakura

07-03-2007, 07:20 PM

I dunno best, but atleast very close about that..

A-50

07-03-2007, 07:24 PM

Well....?

you ever heard of Joe Calzaghe? After he beats Kessler there will be no doubt. Joe Calzaghe is the premier fighter in the world today. Calzaghe would knock Roy Jones out!

JC2006

07-03-2007, 07:25 PM

you ever heard of Joe Calzaghe? After he beats Kessler there will be no doubt. Joe Calzaghe is the premier fighter in the world today. Calzaghe would knock Roy Jones out!

No man. I've never heard of Joe Calzaghe.

lucasehr

07-03-2007, 07:30 PM

RJJ was definitely the better fighter than Calzaghe or anyone else at 168 that I can think of, but I have to agree with the above statement that he wasn't at SMW long enough to be considered the greatest of all time.

JC2006

07-03-2007, 07:36 PM

Dekkers

07-03-2007, 07:39 PM

I was referring more on a P4P, head-to-head basis rather than accomplishment accumulation.

You may as well ask who's the greater fighter, rather than who's the greater supermiddle.

jonesjrp4p1

07-03-2007, 07:40 PM

He is a greater fighter than Calzaghe overall, but he wasn't at 168 long enough to be considered the greatest 168er.

wow you are an idiot

Vantage_West

07-03-2007, 07:41 PM

WTF!!!!! are you serious? how the hell is calzaghe the greatest? cause' he beat a "green" jeff lacy? or a washed up Chris eubank years ago? or get a suspsiously early stoppage over a "tv made good" fighter in manfedo? there is no comparison here fella Roy Jones is light years ahead of the brit on any subject discussing greatness!:rofl such a stereotipical anti calzaghe type saying if you watch him from the early career to now you will know calzaghe is the best natural 168 pounds

China_hand_Joe

07-03-2007, 07:43 PM

wow you are an idiotThe is no doubt about it for me, Calzaghe has defined the divison.

Vantage_West

07-03-2007, 07:44 PM

wow you are an idiotwhy? he said exactly what mde sense....but as you are called jonesjrp4p i see ALOT of biased

jonesjrp4p1

07-03-2007, 07:45 PM

The is no doubt about it for me, Calzaghe has defined the divison.

who has he beat besides jeff lacy? and thats such an accomplishment

Vantage_West

07-03-2007, 07:47 PM

The is no doubt about it for me, Calzaghe has defined the divison.thank you at last somone who hasnt got an anti calzaghe thing on their mind

your a rare poster china you pick calzaghe over anyone but give all the right details to why he is the greatest super middlewieght and maybe best british middlewieght of all time

lucasehr

07-03-2007, 07:48 PM

Man, why can people never just express different opinions on this board? It always comes down to denigrating someone else's character if they disagree. Anyway, RJJ I think was definitely the best p4p of SMWs, but as CHJoe said, JC has done more in the division. I mean who did Roy really fight at 168? Toney and... Pazienza? P4Per=Roy, done more at 168=JC.

jonesjrp4p1

07-03-2007, 07:49 PM

kg0208

07-03-2007, 07:49 PM

Calzaghe is the greatest SMW ever on accomplishment. Jones is better h2h and p4p.

lucasehr

07-03-2007, 07:53 PM

toney is a way better name then lacy

Agreed, but that was one of only like 6 or 7 fights at SMW for RJJ. I don't think that JC is really fighting stellar opponents all the time, but 20 title defenses is 20 title defenses, right? Maybe you guys disagree, but I think that's pretty impressive whomever you're fighting.

kg0208

07-03-2007, 07:58 PM

Agreed, but that was one of only like 6 or 7 fights at SMW for RJJ. I don't think that JC is really fighting stellar opponents all the time, but 20 title defenses is 20 title defenses, right? Maybe you guys disagree, but I think that's pretty impressive whomever you're fighting.

Jones had 12 fights at 168. He only had 5-6 championship ones.

Fighting Weight

07-03-2007, 07:59 PM

you ever heard of Joe Calzaghe? After he beats Kessler there will be no doubt. Joe Calzaghe is the premier fighter in the world today. Calzaghe would knock Roy Jones out!

Even today I suspect Calzaghe would struggle to KO Jones, so back when Jones was at his best there's no way that would happen. Prime Jones has better EVERYTHING than Calzaghe, how the fuck can you win a fight where you have no advantages???

Oh sorry, Joe slaps harder than Roy - I forgot :nut

China_hand_Joe

07-03-2007, 07:59 PM

thank you at last somone who hasnt got an anti calzaghe thing on their mind

your a rare poster china you pick calzaghe over anyone but give all the right details to why he is the greatest super middlewieght and maybe best british middlewieght of all timeI don't think he could beat Wlad at heavyweight, though even I might be wrong about something one day?

Vantage_West

07-03-2007, 08:08 PM

who has he beat besides jeff lacy? and thats such an accomplishmentrobin reid ,mark deleney,chris eubank,evens ashira,charles brewer,byron motchel....he fought 8 world champions all but 4 not having a area belt on the resume.

so what if some never go past certain places in boxing he fought pro boxers who were there to fight not for a pay cheque

Vantage_West

07-03-2007, 08:09 PM

I don't think he could beat Wlad at heavyweight, though even I might be wrong about something one day?you know what i mean:nono

kg0208

07-03-2007, 08:10 PM

No. James Toney is.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::patsch

JC2006

07-03-2007, 08:17 PM

You may as well ask who's the greater fighter, rather than who's the greater supermiddle.

Yeah well I can't change the thread title now.

db21

07-03-2007, 08:56 PM

he may not be the best, but roy jones in his prime would have been a problem for any body from 160-168...anybody

Ring Master

07-03-2007, 09:29 PM

I'll go with Roy.

Roy has a really really great win @ 168 against James Toney.

C.J.Rock

07-03-2007, 10:00 PM

Thread Stealer

07-03-2007, 10:10 PM

Calzaghe ranks higher @ 168 due to his achievements and time spent at the weight.

However I think Roy would've won head-to-head over him and basically any other super middleweights for that matter.

Maybe some of the guys weighing around 165-168 or so before the division was established would win, but since the super middleweight division was established in the 80s, I don't know of anyone I'd pick over Roy head-to-head.

Axe

07-03-2007, 10:14 PM

I was referring more on a P4P, head-to-head basis rather than accomplishment accumulation.

Head to head there is no competition for Roy Jones Jr. at 168 lbs. He is the greatest SMW of all time, bar none.

On resume Calzaghe edges him out at 168. Jones didn't stay too long, and fought bums after disposing of Toney.

MSTR

07-03-2007, 10:23 PM

robin reid ,mark deleney,chris eubank,evens ashira,charles brewer,byron motchel....he fought 8 world champions all but 4 not having a area belt on the resume.

so what if some never go past certain places in boxing he fought pro boxers who were there to fight not for a pay cheque
All the guys you just listed are shit apart from Eubank. Regardless, Jones resume apart from toney at SMW was not really that impressive. What was impressive was the way he utterly dominated every opponent, something that Calzaghe has not done. Do you really think Robin Reid or Sakio Bika would have managed to go the distance with a prime Roy Jones at SMW? If so then you should go seek help.

MSTR

07-03-2007, 11:00 PM

Joe never got Ko'd....and Lacy would have gotten would have been alot more dangerous to Roy, than he was to Joe ( obviously ) You make comparrisons laced with excuses...if you are washed up at 31 ( which is bullshit, just an excuse for the Eubank huggers )....stay the fk outta the ring if you are gonna lose...If you get asswhooped, or lose at weight changes, stay the hell at supermiddle...Hatton found out he's best at 140, and that's where he is again..Roy didn't stay at supermiddle long enough..if he did, he may have done better than Joe, ar equal to, or maybe not equal to ...
Joe was 34 when he beat LAcy,,,, Eubanks was old at 31?? If you are a nuthugger, than he was ...Joe would beat him in his best day:hi:
The difference between Joe and Roy is that Roy went up weight divisions to challenge himself, where as Joe stayed in a weak division and made defenses against a series of unworthy challengers.

MSTR

07-03-2007, 11:03 PM

Does anyone on here actually believe that prime for prime, head 2 head, Joe could beat Roy. Roy was a beast, he had unbelievable power, speed, defense and would do things in the ring that no one else could. He would throw vicious combinations, and from all sorts of angles. Joe would be in WAY over his head. This is not even close IMO.

boxfan99

07-03-2007, 11:03 PM

Calzaghe is clearly the greatest. It is debatable-ish who the best is though, you can make a small case for Jones there.

I totally agree.:good

Irish Steel

07-03-2007, 11:06 PM

^^ thats why he is undefeated, unlike jones :hi:

deram

07-04-2007, 12:30 AM

Jones was at his best at 168 and he was really good. He beat Toney who (no matter what the nuthuggers say is a fighter at the level of Jirov (a little above). Apart from that Roy didn't really meet anyone.

It would have been great to see him against Ottke or Calzaghe but because we didnt it is hard to know what would have happened. Personally I think Roy would have beaten Ottke. I think Roy would also have beatne Calzaghe, but a large part of that is because Joe wasn't fighting with his head for most of his carreer. The more experienced and smarter Calzaghe of the last couple of years would have had a far better chance than the young unthinking Calzaghe that went life and death with Reid.

I would give the former Calzaghe 15% chance and the current 40%. But it is pure speculation. Based on performances Hamed also looked more spectacular than Barrera so people would have looked at it and said "did you see the things that Hamed did and bla bla." Still Barrera fucked him up.

I can see it going both ways but Roy gets a plus based on showmanship ;-)

Jinx

07-04-2007, 12:34 AM

IF...Calzaghe handles Kessler then i'd say he's done a little more at 168 than Jones...but head-to-head Jones would've decapitated Calzaghe...

smokey

07-04-2007, 12:34 AM

cuchulain

07-04-2007, 01:23 AM

Calzaghe is clearly the greatest. It is debatable-ish who the best is though, you can make a small case for Jones there.

Strange sleight of words. I think I get you, but Jones was better and if he had stayed at SMW, would have dominated for longer than Joe has.

To answer the thread question: Yes.

Mind Reader

07-04-2007, 01:47 AM

JC is a awesome fighter and been at SMW longer than Roy, that is why. In that weight prime for prime i dont even think it would be close, plus Roy had a spectacular win against a easy top 3 pfp, something I don't think Joe has done to that magnitude. Head to Head, Prime for Prime, I don't even think Joe has a chance. Roy would make easy work out of him. (Please dont use LHW fights because Roy simply fought different at 168, and that is what you have to go by.) View Tony and Pazienza and go off of that, I dont want to hear about laying back and counterpunching because that is not what Roy did at that weight.

fightking12

07-04-2007, 01:49 AM

Calzaghe is clearly the greatest. It is debatable-ish who the best is though, you can make a small case for Jones there.
All about Calzaghe he the best super middleweight of all time

Beatboxer

07-04-2007, 07:08 AM

The many Jones arse lickers would love to believe that.

Fact is he wasn't there nearly long enough to be considered...he may have been the best fighter ever to fight at the weight but like Michael Moorer at 175 did not carve out enough of a legacy there to be considered the greatest.

Odo

07-04-2007, 10:34 AM

Roy Jones should have fought DM in his prime.It could have made Roy Jones a living legend IMO.

joe the great

07-04-2007, 10:40 AM

#2 behind Calz.

Mook

07-04-2007, 10:43 AM

boys, boys. Let's all calm down and heap praise on JC2006's avatar. Outstanding.

Calzaghe is the greatest ever super middleweight, but jones is much the greater fighter. It's like saying SRL's the greatest ever middleweight. He ain't, but he was a greater fighter than, say, Monzon.

DanePugilist

07-04-2007, 12:06 PM

If Calzaghe beats Kessler, I will consider him the best 168 pounder everI agree with this - at this point I have RJJ ahead of Calzaghe.

His resume and fighting skills were better at 168 than JCs, but not far ahead. By defeating Kessler, he would have beaten the at least 2nd best SMW there has been for a long time.

Brighton bomber

07-04-2007, 12:39 PM

Jones may very well be the best super middle weight ever but he can't ever be regarded as the greatest as he simply didn't acheive enough at 168lbs to be ranked as the greatest.

Pimp C

07-04-2007, 02:53 PM

Hands down there is no one else.:deal

igotJUIC3

07-04-2007, 03:02 PM

Roy in his prime beats the brakes of Joe in his prime...this is simply because when Roy was in his PRIME there was NO ONE like him and there still isnt anyone like him.....Joe's toughest comp was Jeff and thats hsi most notable victory as well....Roy in his prime was just too much for fighters.

cuzzinelias

07-04-2007, 03:26 PM

He very well could have been the greatest, but didn't stay long/do enough when he was there for us to be sure.

When judging greatness, you can only do so based on accomplishments and not talent alone. From that standpoint, Joe Gallagher may very well be the greatest (especially if he beats Kessler).

Would RJJ beat Gallagher prime vs prime? Most likely, but we'll never know. Based on accomplishments, Gallagher ranks far above Jones @ smw.

sues2nd

07-04-2007, 03:48 PM

He is a greater fighter than Calzaghe overall, but he wasn't at 168 long enough to be considered the greatest 168er.

As crazy as this sounds......ummmmm, I.........agree......with......China_hand_Joe. About a post that includes Calzaghe???

I dont know what to think. Its like up is down...left is right....Im gonna go cry myself to sleep now.

:oops:

deram

07-04-2007, 09:31 PM

I'm not a Jones fan but Joe WHO????

Who is the best actor: Max von Sydow or Paris Hilton?
American fan answer: "Now, I am not a fan of Paris, but Max who?"

Being shown on US tv far from (FAR FAR from!) equates quality.

sues2nd

07-04-2007, 10:37 PM

Who is the best actor: Max von Sydow or Paris Hilton?
American fan answer: "Now, I am not a fan of Paris, but Max who?"

Being shown on US tv far from (FAR FAR from!) equates quality.

deram.....?

WTF are you talking about...lol.

There is NO person alive in the US that thinks Paris Hilton is a good actress. She is a celebrity, not an actress...I know people that went to see that god awful House of Wax remake just to watch her get killed. Trust me when I say this, most of America hates the bitch. She is a train wreck, that is why we watch her....not for her acting skills.

And to be honest, she is a much bigger celebrity in Japan then she is here....MUCH MUCH MUCH BIGGER.

So looks like that american hate bullshit thing rears its ugly head again....that shit is really starting to get old on this site.

MSTR

07-04-2007, 10:42 PM

I wouldn't call SMW weak at all....just another way to try o discreddit Joe...I'm used to that.
Your telling me that when Joe was the reigning champ and fighting guys like Rick Thornbury, the division was strong? You are a complete joke. And a nuthugger. You have just lost every shred of credibility right there. Either the division was weak or Joe fought the absolute worst opponents imaginable. Take your pick

MSTR

07-04-2007, 10:48 PM

So Lacy was unworthy?...Oh, I forgot, that's the lable givent to ANYONE joe beats...Lacy was gonna kill Joe according to these boxing geniouses on here ...LOL convincing me, cause you won't..:hi:
He pointed out that Toney was a top 3 p4p fighter with wins over Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum and Iran Barkley. Lacy clearly was not p4p top 3 material. And although he was the favourite and a very credible opponent, he had never beaten the sought of competition that Toney had, and he certainly wasn't as tested. Don't be so biased

BewareofDawg

07-04-2007, 10:50 PM

Head-to-Head --- You'd have to be clinically insane to say anyone could ever beat him at that weight

rekcutnevets

07-04-2007, 10:56 PM

Jones is one the most athletically gifted fighters ever. His speed was enough to deal with most anyone. He gets mentioned in all time discussion with attributes alone. When you accompany that with his wins at 168 against Malinga, Toney, Thornton, Sosa, Lucas, and Brannon; you have a good list of names. The big name is Toney. Toney was considered to be the 2nd best p4p fighter at the time, Whitaker was #1.

I still want to see what Jones has remaining. He did not look shot, physically, in his last fight with Tarver. He seemed to lack the drive to win. He says he wants to fight Calzaghe. I'm interested in seeing if Joe is good enough for the old man version of Jones.

sues2nd

07-04-2007, 11:05 PM

Head-to-Head --- You'd have to be clinically insane to say anyone could ever beat him at that weight

Well the post was about who was the best one, not the best one head to head.

Head to head, there isnt a fighter ever at SMW I would pick over Roy, but he just didnt fight there long enough to be considered the ALL TIME greatest SMW.

errsta

07-04-2007, 11:08 PM

he may not have the greatest record at 168 ever, but I would pick him hands down against any other 168 pound great ever. So, YES.

deram

07-04-2007, 11:37 PM

deram.....?

WTF are you talking about...lol.

There is NO person alive in the US that thinks Paris Hilton is a good actress. She is a celebrity, not an actress...I know people that went to see that god awful House of Wax remake just to watch her get killed. Trust me when I say this, most of America hates the bitch. She is a train wreck, that is why we watch her....not for her acting skills.

And to be honest, she is a much bigger celebrity in Japan then she is here....MUCH MUCH MUCH BIGGER.

So looks like that american hate bullshit thing rears its ugly head again....that shit is really starting to get old on this site.

I know she is not liked that much anywhere not even in the US, but maybe I should have said "Matt leBlanc instead?

The problem would be that the same people that did not see the problem with claiming that Roy is better simply because they have seen him more, will just say "yeah, Matt is better and so what?". In other words they will not understand the point. So I exaggerated it enough to give this group a chance to grasp the general idea.

MSTR

07-04-2007, 11:40 PM

I know she is not liked that much anywhere not even in the US, but maybe I should have said "Matt leBlanc instead?

The problem would be that the same people that did not see the problem with claiming that Roy is better simply because they have seen him more, will just say "yeah, Matt is better and so what?". In other words they will not understand the point. So I exaggerated it enough to give this group a chance to grasp the general idea.
I have seen plenty of both fighters and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Roy is by far the more gifted fighter.

sues2nd

07-04-2007, 11:49 PM

I have seen plenty of both fighters and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Roy is by far the more gifted fighter.

Amen!

If we are talking head to head, Roy HAS to be the favorite. If its accomplishments....its Calzaghe.

And deram, maybe I went a little far with the us hate thing, but you have to admit, ANYTIME someone from the us favors a us fighter over a non-us fighter, some idiot is there to say that they are only doing it cause they are from the US. Its the most LAME arguement used on here.

There was a post about KT against Whitaker. I picked Sweet Pea....and sure enough, at least 5 people said it was because Whitaker was from the US.

Its every post of the like....if your from the states and you pick a fighter from the states....you do it because your from over here.

Shit just gets old.

And Matt LeBlanc is an awful actor too...anyone can play an idiot, if you know, their an idiot.

But I do get your analogy.

DanePugilist

07-04-2007, 11:53 PM

Future prediction: Kessler will surpass both...

deram

07-04-2007, 11:55 PM

I have seen plenty of both fighters and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Roy is by far the more gifted fighter.

I lean towards Roy too, but that has nothing to do with my post.

Roy is NOT the best just because he has been shown more on US TV and american fans go "Joe who?"

Many American fans would go "Max who?" and pick Matt leBlanc any day of the week. And that would be wrong.

So just a warning not to equate being shown on US TV with being good and not being shown with not being good. That Roy may be better than Calzaghe is another issue.

deram

07-05-2007, 12:01 AM

Amen!

If we are talking head to head, Roy HAS to be the favorite. If its accomplishments....its Calzaghe.

And deram, maybe I went a little far with the us hate thing, but you have to admit, ANYTIME someone from the us favors a us fighter over a non-us fighter, some idiot is there to say that they are only doing it cause they are from the US. Its the most LAME arguement used on here.

There was a post about KT against Whitaker. I picked Sweet Pea....and sure enough, at least 5 people said it was because Whitaker was from the US.

Its every post of the like....if your from the states and you pick a fighter from the states....you do it because your from over here.

Shit just gets old.

And Matt LeBlanc is an awful actor too...anyone can play an idiot, if you know, their an idiot.

But I do get your analogy.

Good.

And yes, I can see that it can get annoying that people question American praise of fellow American athletes. However, believe me it can get at least as annoying to see countless "top 10 lists" and "p4p lists" etc. made by American media (who dominate the internet and ..world as such) put Americans (or american-based people) in if at all possible and then just sprinkle a few foreigners just to be politically correct.

For that reason it is only logical that people do not just swallow everything that comes from US media/fans (because they (too) often DO swallow everything that comes from US media.

But of course there will be times where the US media are actually coirrect and then it must definitely be annoying that people question it in those instances. I can see that.

sues2nd

07-05-2007, 12:09 AM

Good.

And yes, I can see that it can get annoying that people question American praise of fellow American athletes. However, believe me it can get at least as annoying to see countless "top 10 lists" and "p4p lists" etc. made by American media (who dominate the internet and ..world as such) put Americans (or american-based people) in if at all possible and then just sprinkle a few foreigners just to be politically correct.

For that reason it is only logical that people do not just swallow everything that comes from US media/fans (because they (too) often DO swallow everything that comes from US media.

But of course there will be times where the US media are actually coirrect and then it must definitely be annoying that people question it in those instances. I can see that.

I see where your coming from, but on this forum it gets out of hand.

AND, it also goes both ways on here. I remember just after Sultan beat Briggs....there were a few people saying Sultan would KO a PRIME Holyfield. Ive also heard that Evander, Bowe, Tyson, etc. werent that good and were only just overrated by the American media.

:patsch

Its cool when ******ted, or if its obvious they are underrating the non-us fighter. But seriously, its EVERYTIME on here.

MSTR

07-05-2007, 12:52 AM

Amen!

If we are talking head to head, Roy HAS to be the favorite. If its accomplishments....its Calzaghe.

And deram, maybe I went a little far with the us hate thing, but you have to admit, ANYTIME someone from the us favors a us fighter over a non-us fighter, some idiot is there to say that they are only doing it cause they are from the US. Its the most LAME arguement used on here.

There was a post about KT against Whitaker. I picked Sweet Pea....and sure enough, at least 5 people said it was because Whitaker was from the US.

Its every post of the like....if your from the states and you pick a fighter from the states....you do it because your from over here.

Shit just gets old.

And Matt LeBlanc is an awful actor too...anyone can play an idiot, if you know, their an idiot.

But I do get your analogy.
I have to agree that the US bashing is getting out of hand. It is no more apparent then any other countries support of their particular fighters. If anything the US posters are less biased IMO then posters from smaller countries. Denmark, Mexico, Phillipines and Australia being prime examples. If you went on the Aussie boards the ridiculous claims about Anthony Mundine is truely mind boggling. Likewise with Kessler, although at least with Kess it is a tad more excusable as he has so far been very good in the ring.

sues2nd

07-05-2007, 01:05 AM

I have to agree that the US bashing is getting out of hand. It is no more apparent then any other countries support of their particular fighters. If anything the US posters are less biased IMO then posters from smaller countries. Denmark, Mexico, Phillipines and Australia being prime examples. If you went on the Aussie boards the ridiculous claims about Anthony Mundine is truely mind boggling. Likewise with Kessler, although at least with Kess it is a tad more excusable as he has so far been very good in the ring.

:good

Bad Blood

07-05-2007, 02:52 AM

Calzaghe is clearly the greatest. It is debatable-ish who the best is though, you can make a small case for Jones there.
The question said greatest. Not most overrated

deram

07-05-2007, 05:11 AM

I see where your coming from, but on this forum it gets out of hand.

AND, it also goes both ways on here. I remember just after Sultan beat Briggs....there were a few people saying Sultan would KO a PRIME Holyfield. Ive also heard that Evander, Bowe, Tyson, etc. werent that good and were only just overrated by the American media.

:patsch

Its cool when ******ted, or if its obvious they are underrating the non-us fighter. But seriously, its EVERYTIME on here.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. On the other hand though there are still many people on ESB that believe the US media and that 100 out of a 100 in any major sport are americans (except for a few thrown in for political correctness and to make it look like an international ranking).

As long as those people abound here there will be others that are naturally sceptical.

I am sure that there are instances as you say where they are too sceptical.

Regarding the bias from smaller countries is certainly true that it exists too. However, the point is that the US fans and media far far out-shout any bias from elsewhere. If the US fans were less biased (or rather if there were less biased fans, because for sure there are also many clever american fans that don't believe the world stops at the US borders) then we could see and take notice of the other biased fans. As it is now there may be some rowdy mice in the room, but everyone is talking about the rowdy elephant in the room because - it is a rowdy elephant.

China_hand_Joe

07-05-2007, 05:30 AM

Yeah, I see what you are saying. On the other hand though there are still many people on ESB that believe the US media and that 100 out of a 100 in any major sport are americans (except for a few thrown in for political correctness and to make it look like an international ranking).

As long as those people abound here there will be others that are naturally sceptical.
I am sure that there are instances as you say where they are too sceptical.

Regarding the bias from smaller countries is certainly true that it exists too. However, the point is that the US fans and media far far out-shout any bias from elsewhere. If the US fans were less biased (or rather if there were less biased fans, because for sure there are also many clever american fans that don't believe the world stops at the US borders) then we could see and take notice of the other biased fans. As it is now there may be some rowdy mice in the room, but everyone is talking about the rowdy elephant in the room because - it is a rowdy elephant.The Americans are convinced James Toney was the P4P number one in the past! Sometimes I become frustrated with explaining the same facts to Americans over and over again and just want to kill the lot of them. But I refuse to resort to terrorism to impose my boxing opinions on America, that would make me nearly as bad as they are. Even though I am 100% right.