Marvin Hagler V Joe Calzaghe

[JonOli]

Marvin Hagler V Joe Calzaghe who wins?


Hagler
Stance South paw
Height 5 9 1/2
Reach 75

Calzaghe
Stance South paw
Hieght 5 11 1/2
Reach 73

[PH|LLA]

good thread

go to thread tools --> add a poll

Hagler by close decision, with 1 knockdown to his credit.

[FRKO]

Damn close, I'd have a hard time picking, but in the end I would never doubt Joe.

[Bodysnatcher]

I've read interviews where Calzaghe says Hagler was his fave boxer growing up.

[China_hand_Joe]

This is a bit of a mismatch in my opinion.

Seriously.

Halger struggled with pygmies like Duran and Leonard. Hagler is one of the worst of the post 1970s 'super legends'. Calzaghe an upper-end 'super legend'. Calzaghe is a league above, maybe two. That much is clear. I cannot imagine Calzaghe having such troubles.

I'm simply don't rate Hagler like most people, I'm not nuthugging.

[FRKO]

Those stats for Calz are wrong. He's either 6' or 6'1". I *think* 6'.

[peter5]

JC wins, no doubt in my mind, he would pot shot, then exchange, then potshot, and by potshot, I mean dissecting hagler, I personally dont think it would be close

[peter5]

Those stats for Calz are wrong. He's either 6' or 6'1". I *think* 6'.

At the Kessler fight, he was read out as 6"

[sean]

hagler was THE fighter of the early 80`s IMO.

took on all the contenders and went brawler v the boxers and boxer v the punchers.

i went to nearly all his fights which were shown in cinema`s in the uk.

best chin i have seen in my lifetime as it never eroded .

huge long arms on a short squat body and his southpaw leaping ramrod jab was somewhat unique.

also did it the hard way with hart/briscoe etc etc before he even got a shot.

one of the greatest middles of all time.

loved watching him box .

the heights listed for the 2 boxers are wrong.

hagler was about 5.8 and calzaghe is about 6.1.

2 of my favourite fighters so i say calzaghe got injured before the fight and it was called off.



ahh my arse hurts sitting on the fence.

[China_hand_Joe]

Have I missed something? Injuries maybe?

Was there any particular reason to as why Hagler struggled with Duran?

[FRKO]

At the Kessler fight, he was read out as 6"

6 inches? LMAO!

But I know what you meant. ;) I just checked his official site too, it says 6'.

[sean]

Have I missed something?

Was there any particular reason to as why Hagler struggled with Duran?

he fought the name and not the fighter in front of him.

gave duran to much respect.

still won fairly easy though.

roldan/hamsho/sibson/ showed a prime hagler.

[China_hand_Joe]

He'd need a KO against Calzaghe, there is almost no way he win on points.

There is a small chance of that. Calzaghe a heavy favorite though.

[peter5]

6 inches? LMAO!

But I know what you meant. ;) I just checked his official site too, it says 6'.

I know, it shows how impressive his win over Kessler was, when i was at the stadium, it was hard to see him throw his combos!:lol: :D

[FRKO]

I know, it shows how impressive his win over Kessler was, when i was at the stadium, it was hard to see him throw his combos!:lol: :D
:lol: Great stuff. Brings to mind the 18" Stonehenge monument on the Spinal Tap video, if you ever saw that...

[sean]

i like him most in hearns fight. and also the briscoe fight was cool too.

i saw the briscoe fight.

briscoe would have been a champ today.

he was something like a more polished feroucious glen johnson in style.

hagler turned counterpuncher in that fight , decked briscoe breifly but briscoe just kept coming and amde it a hard fight.

right there i new hagler would be champ.
antuerfermo IMO got the benefit of the doubt.
i had hagler winning.


hagler came up old school and trained brilliantly for every fight .

[sean]

one thing in calzaghe defense in this hypothetical

hagler at 5.8 would be a tiny super middleweight.

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

Those stats for Calz are wrong. He's either 6' or 6'1". I *think* 6'.
Jc is listed at an even 6 foot but dosen't look it:nono more like 5-10 or 5-11 boxers and the media always exaggerate their height:deal why i don't know it just works that way..

[marting]

Hagler didn't have much problems with a 6' 1" Hearns but I think Calzaghe a better boxer than Hearns. Granted Hearns had far more power than Calzaghe.

I'd lean towards Hagler. He would be able to turn the fight into a war and I've never seen Calzaghe in anything that even resembled a war. If they got into a bomb trading stanza I think Hagler would be able to take Joe's best shots. Calzaghe has a pretty good chin too but in a war-type-of-fight I don't know too many guys that were in Hagler's league.

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

This is a 50-50 fight, both guy's had excellent, boxing skills, great stamina, iron chins and lots of Heart, JC would have a slight height advantage Hagler the reach, this fight would have a 95% chance of going to the judges, in a close decision..
They could fight 10 times and go 5-5 against each other..:huh

[196osh]

I would take Calzaghe UD. Close. I think Joe would win two out of three fights.

[sean]

Jc is listed at an even 6 foot but dosen't look it:nono more like 5-10 or 5-11 boxers and the media always exaggerate their height:deal why i don't know it just works that way..


5.10 calzaghe exagerrating his height next to the 6.1 kessler.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


and the 5.10 listed manfredo with the calzaghe standing on a step ladder.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

5.10 calzaghe exagerrating his height next to the 6.1 kessler.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


and the 5.10 listed manfredo with the calzaghe standing on a step ladder.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Thanks for the pic, they look dead even in size, i didn't realize Kesseler was 6-1 i've never seen these 2 this close up, damn their both going bald, especially Joe:smoke

[Big Ears]

Not to be forgotten is that in truth the fighters are 2 weight divisions apart not one . Hagler fought in the age of same day weigh-ins and made 157 as late as the Duran fight . He's a mordern day Light-Middleweight .

Calzaghe would of been a career long Light-Heavyweight instead of Super-Middleweight had he been fighting at the time of Hagler .

[headhunter]

Not to be forgotten is that in truth the fighters are 2 weight divisions apart not one . Hagler fought in the age of same day weigh-ins and made 157 as late as the Duran fight . He's a mordern day Light-Middleweight .

Calzaghe would of been a career long Light-Heavyweight instead of Super-Middleweight had he been fighting at the time of Hagler .

Good point just imagine Hagler at LMW today :yikes

[kayjay]

Another point of note, Hagler fought over the 15 round distance back then,not to say Joe couldn't do 15 but just another thing that separates their eras.

Correct me if I'm wrong,but was the Sugar Ray fight one of the first championship fights over 12.You wonder if it was over 15 whether Hagler would've caught up with him eventually.

[BlueApollo]

Nothing but respect for the Marvelous One, but Joe would have been a little too big, and a little too quick.

[Bigcat]

Marvin comes from a bygone era that Joe respects more than anyone.. Even Joe would tell you that he would have had to go out into the woods for a year to train for a motivated Marvin.. Hagler by a late stoppage and that is no disgrace...

[Dscaper]

Remember watching Hagler completely destroy Alan Minter all those years ago - looking back on Minter, he wasn't anything special, but Marvin really put on a great show. First round of Hearns/Hagler was just immense tho.

Would have a hard time picking between the two. Both are/were quick, technically sound, intelligent boxers, who can tear it up and take shots.

Forced to pick, I'd take Hagler - for the aura he emitted in the ring.

[JMotrain]

I'd take JC by close decision, but it wouldn't be easy.

[brooklyn1550]

Calzaghe UD

[See Me Flow]

Marvelous Marvin by KO!

[drvooh]

I like ( and liked ) them both... I hope a draw:D

[Fighting Weight]

Christ another ridiculous over-rating Calzaghe thread :patsch

Yeah Joe's size may work for him in this one, but those of you that think Calzaghe wins this one on skills, speed and work-rate - shame on you.

[tays001]

i went with joe

[JAM Killer]

The guy beats Kessler and all of a sudden he is a legendary fighter. Get the fuck out of here.

[Fighting Weight]

The guy beats Kessler and all of a sudden he is a legendary fighter. Get the fuck out of here.

Big round of applause for that post, glad I'm not the only poster here that isn't on acid.

[JAM Killer]

Kessler is a very good fighter, and anyone not named Chad Dawson wouldn't have made such easy work of him..

Kessler ain't Hagler.

[Fighting Weight]

Kessler ain't Hagler.

It's just amazing that you have to point something like that out to these morons....I mean Kessler never looked impressive before he fought Calslappy but now he lost a decision he's been elevated to legendary status, because he never got knocked out by a guy that doesn't punch that hard :patsch

Hagler is a different league to Kessler - and Calzaghe struggled with Kessler. This one goes to Marvin by brutal ownage.

[JAM Killer]

Hagler wins this fight, by knockout . . .what round? Any round Hagler fucking wants!

[Fighting Weight]

Calzaghe lost 3 rounds in that fight. 4 at most

Against who again?

Yep. Save it mate.

Jones lost ZERO rounds against Toney. Two all time greats in the ring. Hopkins won 4 rounds against Jones.....Joe's going to get fucked up and the only thing standing in Bernards way is age cos he sure as shit doesn't lose this one any other way.

[LiamE]

I'd lean towards Hagler. He would be able to turn the fight into a war and I've never seen Calzaghe in anything that even resembled a war.

Not seen the Mitchell fight then?

[chimba]

Suddenly kessler is a legendary super fighter who could beat all time greats with ease

This is the whole trick..build up a fighter not even top 20 and make him seem to be p4p material..

So when he gets beat your fighter looks good. didnt you know that?

[tays001]

It's just amazing that you have to point something like that out to these morons....I mean Kessler never looked impressive before he fought Calslappy but now he lost a decision he's been elevated to legendary status, because he never got knocked out by a guy that doesn't punch that hard :patsch

Hagler is a different league to Kessler - and Calzaghe struggled with Kessler. This one goes to Marvin by brutal ownage.

i dnt think peopl are over rating they are just looking at the size weight and skill level wich no disrespect to HAGLER could be on par or better between him and JC now if some one said HAGLER had no shot or for that matter JC then that would be dumb

just cuz you DON't like a certain fighter or there stlye of fighting doesn't mean he could beat a past legend.

belive it or not JC is possibly the greates at 168 and right now P4P at #2 or 3. JC definatly has a shot

[sjc]

Calzaghe doesn't have the power to keep a vicious stalker like Hagler off of him. Hagler by KO.

No, but he has the chin to take Haglers bombs

The stamina to keep dishin it out, keepin Hagler honest, Joe does have power.

The footwork to avoid him if needs be.

The heart not to give up even if Hagler does get him in trouble.

Have I mentioned his speed yet? No.. well you get the idea, I could go on.

Then theres the size differential, the most telling factor for Hagler.. Hagler is awesome, and given him being slightly bigger, this would be an awesome contest, epic even, as it stands, it's not a million miles from a mismatch.

[sjc]

I'm not saying the fight would be a mismatch becuase I think the fight would be very close. I just think Hagler has enough to pull out a hard earned Decision victory. I could be wrong though.

I'm not saying its a mismatch, i'm saying its not a million miles away... long way - not million miles :yep

[Larson]

:barf

[tays001]

Against who again?

Yep. Save it mate.

Jones lost ZERO rounds against Toney. Two all time greats in the ring. Hopkins won 4 rounds against Jones.....Joe's going to get fucked up and the only thing standing in Bernards way is age cos he sure as shit doesn't lose this one any other way.

oh so if joe beats NARD it's because of age now?

sorry to break it to you anytime these 2 would of fought JC owns his ass.

see when nard first started out he was vicious ...HHMM just like HAGLER was in his later career. nard went after his guy and went to war thats how he earned the name EXacutioner. he took his guy out. remeber JOE lipsee.

if they fight now joes style won't alow NARD to fight with his conservative style he has now. he will be forced to revert to sluging it out or lose every round due to out put and nard got to much pride for that. so he will reluctantly go all out. wich will play in to JC hands and game plan also jc is not just quick bu also does not get hit alot as he seem to have a natural radar not on RJJ or willie peps level but it's still great.

and if you want to go for a younger version of NARD vs a younger JC then you also have to include JC hand not being as bad there for his power would be that much better there for a young nard would be trading with younger stronger harder hitting Joe risking a possible ko loss.

and if you want to go with a supose nard that beat TITo then you have a prime jc who always keep raising his game as the compition gets better . take a look at how JC kept elavating his game in the kessler fight( now that wasn't a prime jc that was him on the decline). sorry but jc just beats hopkins period any time anywhere.

this is why some peopl think he can beat hagler .by the way the young hagler fights like an old hopkins:good

[chimba]

poll is now tied...people have gotten their heads out of their asses

[FRKO]

Calzaghe lost 3 rounds in that fight. 4 at most

It was 3.

I guess Floyd must also be on acid, anyway, because he reckons Calz is one of the best fighters he's ever seen. I mean, it's not like his opinion matters or anything, right... :-(

[tays001]

It was 3.

I guess Floyd must also be on acid, anyway, because he reckons Calz is one of the best fighters he's ever seen. I mean, it's not like his opinion matters or anything, right... :-(

peopl are just hating:good

[FRKO]

Too true.

[KO Boxing]

H2H, 50-50

Accomplishments, Hagler KO

[brooklyn1550]

Marvin Hagler was an all time great, perhaps the best ever at middleweight, a great all around fighter, and an iron chinned warrior.

However, I believe Hagler would lost a lot of his effectiveness if he moved up to super middleweight. He was never a one punch knockout artist, but did wear down guys with a steady, brutal accumulation of punishment. So he didn't have that one punch to stop Calzaghe (nobody at 168 does) and it would take a long accumulative job to win by KO or TKO. Calzaghe's defense and ring generalship is too good for that to happen. He didn't stop Duran or Leonard, so I don't see him stopping Joe, who has a great chin.

Calzaghe is a great fighter too. Sure he hasn't accomplished as much as Marvin, but it is very evident to me that he is every bit as versatile and every bit as complete. He lacks the power of Marvin, but makes up for it with better speed and defense. If they fought on the inside, Hagler would not pulverize him. Calzaghe is a tough customer in close and very crafty and slick. I see his faster hands getting the better of inside exchanges, but Marvin would be very competitive, landing some hard shots to the body and the head.

On the outside, a prime Hagler had a piston-like jab, but against Calzaghe, I don't see him establishing it.

Calzaghe is bigger than Hagler too, and while Hagler looked like a beast, Calzaghe is very strong in his own right. I think Calzaghe's size, speed, smarts, and versatility would be enough to overcome Hagler by a 116-112 decision. To be honest, the only fighter I see beating Calzaghe at 168 is Roy Jones, Jr.

[tays001]

Marvin Hagler was an all time great, perhaps the best ever at middleweight, a great all around fighter, and an iron chinned warrior.

However, I believe Hagler would lost a lot of his effectiveness if he moved up to super middleweight. He was never a one punch knockout artist, but did wear down guys with a steady, brutal accumulation of punishment. So he didn't have that one punch to stop Calzaghe (nobody at 168 does) and it would take a long accumulative job to win by KO or TKO. He didn't stop Duran or Leonard, so I don't see him stopping Joe, who has a great chin.

Calzaghe is a great fighter too. Sure he hasn't accomplished as much as Marvin, but it is very evident to me that he is every bit as versatile and every bit as complete. He lacks the power of Marvin, but makes up for it with better speed and defense. If they fought on the inside, Hagler would not pulverize him. Calzaghe is a tough customer in close and very crafty and slick. I see his faster hands getting the better of inside exchanges, but Marvin would be very competitive, landing some hard shots to the body and the head.

On the outside, a prime Hagler had a piston-like jab, but against Calzaghe, I don't see him establishing it.

Calzaghe is bigger than Hagler too, and while Hagler looked like a beast, Calzaghe is very strong in his own right. I think Calzaghe's size, speed, smarts, and versatility would be enough to overcome Hagler by a 116-112 decision. To be honest, the only fighter I see beating Calzaghe at 168 is Roy Jones, Jr.


Great post man :good

[JonOli]

"Those stats for Calz are wrong. He's either 6' or 6'1". I *think* 6'."

That figure is taken off BoxingREC (the bible to some). I cant really see people making up 5ft 11 1/2. If they were going to alter a figure they would round it up or down. Its probably just rounded up to 6ft in the majority of cases but down to the actual measure hes 5ft 11 1/2.

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As regards to those commentating on size and Joe havein a supreme advantage. According to this Haggler is 2 inches shorter, but has a 2 inch greater reach. Joe isnt much bigger then Mr Hagler.

[Amsterdam]

Marvin Hagler was an all time great, perhaps the best ever at middleweight, a great all around fighter, and an iron chinned warrior.

However, I believe Hagler would lost a lot of his effectiveness if he moved up to super middleweight. He was never a one punch knockout artist, but did wear down guys with a steady, brutal accumulation of punishment. So he didn't have that one punch to stop Calzaghe (nobody at 168 does) and it would take a long accumulative job to win by KO or TKO. Calzaghe's defense and ring generalship is too good for that to happen. He didn't stop Duran or Leonard, so I don't see him stopping Joe, who has a great chin.

Calzaghe is a great fighter too. Sure he hasn't accomplished as much as Marvin, but it is very evident to me that he is every bit as versatile and every bit as complete. He lacks the power of Marvin, but makes up for it with better speed and defense. If they fought on the inside, Hagler would not pulverize him. Calzaghe is a tough customer in close and very crafty and slick. I see his faster hands getting the better of inside exchanges, but Marvin would be very competitive, landing some hard shots to the body and the head.

On the outside, a prime Hagler had a piston-like jab, but against Calzaghe, I don't see him establishing it.

Calzaghe is bigger than Hagler too, and while Hagler looked like a beast, Calzaghe is very strong in his own right. I think Calzaghe's size, speed, smarts, and versatility would be enough to overcome Hagler by a 116-112 decision. To be honest, the only fighter I see beating Calzaghe at 168 is Roy Jones, Jr.

Nice to always see an objective analysis. The best point is that he didn't stop Duran or Leonard, this ruling out stopping Calzaghe very slim.

This is similiar to those fools that think being very close with a blown up Wright equals an easy time with Calzaghe, as if Wright is better and more stylistically challenging.

Roy Jones would likely beat Calzaghe, I rate him a clear favourite and would bet on Roy if this bout prime/prime was happening next week, but everybody else doesn't have what it takes.

I also think you agreed Brooklyn that Kessler could beat Hagler, but nobody will agree with that because they don't analyse things.

Kessler is not legendary, he's not even a supernatural elite, but he is an excellent elite fighter and Hagler never defeated a man as large as Kessler, with Kessler's skills and natural ability, even though he defeated a technically perfect fighter in Hearns and several other smaller legends. How would Hagler deal with the bigger guy? I think the fight is 50/50, Hagler being extremely tough and skilled and Kessler being larger and having a pretty big style advantage with that commanding jab.

The fact remains to anybody with analysation ability that NOBODY in 2007 clearly beat any opponent as good as Kessler, if so, please name the opponent regardless of weight class. It sure as fuck isn't Ricky Hatton and a past prime Shane Mosely and it sure as fuck isn't a past it DLH and it definitely isn't Jean Marc Mormeck or the joke Jermain Taylor.

[brooklyn1550]

Nice to always see an objective analysis. The best point is that he didn't stop Duran or Leonard, this ruling out stopping Calzaghe very slim.

This is similiar to those fools that think being very close with a blown up Wright equals an easy time with Calzaghe, as if Wright is better and more stylistically challenging.

Roy Jones would likely beat Calzaghe, I rate him a clear favourite and would bet on Roy if this bout prime/prime was happening next week, but everybody else doesn't have what it takes.

I also think you agreed Brooklyn that Kessler could beat Hagler, but nobody will agree with that because they don't analyse things.

Kessler is not legendary, he's not even a supernatural elite, but he is an excellent elite fighter and Hagler never defeated a man as large as Kessler, with Kessler's skills and natural ability, even though he defeated a technically perfect fighter in Hearns and several other smaller legends. How would Hagler deal with the bigger guy? I think the fight is 50/50, Hagler being extremely tough and skilled and Kessler being larger and having a pretty big style advantage with that commanding jab.

The fact remains to anybody with analysation ability that NOBODY in 2007 clearly beat any opponent as good as Kessler, if so, please name the opponent regardless of weight class. It sure as fuck isn't Ricky Hatton and a past prime Shane Mosely and it sure as fuck isn't a past it DLH and it definitely isn't Jean Marc Mormeck or the joke Jermain Taylor.

I agree with you completely that Calzaghe's win over a prime, undefeated Kessler was the best win anybody had this entire year. Add the fact he beat him to the great performance he gave (even while past his prime).

The bottom line is that Kessler doesn't have the name or popularity of Wright, Mosley, Taylor, or De La Hoya, but in 2007 in his respective weight class, he was performing at the higher level. The guy barely lost any rounds and he wasn't facing stiffs. I will also add that Kessler @ 168 is definitely better than Wright @ 170.

I believe Kessler/Hagler is a 50-50 fight too. If both were naturally the same size, I think Hagler stops him late, but Kessler is a big super middleweight and bigger than anybody Hagler faced. His jab would present problems as would his range and lateral movement. I think Hagler had the better punch variety and was the more complete fighter, so he would present big problems as well. However, I must restate my questions as to how effective he would really be at 168. I could see either guy winning. Sure as hell wouldn't be an easy fight for Hagler (or Kessler for that matter).

[Amsterdam]

I agree with you completely that Calzaghe's win over a prime, undefeated Kessler was the best win anybody had this entire year. Add the fact he beat him to the great performance he gave (even while past his prime).

The bottom line is that Kessler doesn't have the name or popularity of Wright, Mosley, Taylor, or De La Hoya, but in 2007 in his respective weight class, he was performing at the higher level. The guy barely lost any rounds and he wasn't facing stiffs. I will also add that Kessler @ 168 is definitely better than Wright @ 170.

I believe Kessler/Hagler is a 50-50 fight too. If both were naturally the same size, I think Hagler stops him late, but Kessler is a big super middleweight and bigger than anybody Hagler faced. His jab would present problems as would his range and lateral movement. I think Hagler had the better punch variety and was the more complete fighter, so he would present big problems as well. However, I must restate my questions as to how effective he would really be at 168. I could see either guy winning. Sure as hell wouldn't be an easy fight for Hagler (or Kessler for that matter).

Agreed, I'm not saying that Kessler would be a favourite over Hagler, but Hagler also should be no more than a slight favourite over Kessler given all factors.

Most morons will say 'Hagler KO 5', when that's just absurd, he'd really have to wear this guy down and would really eat some top notch leather in the process, as his defence was not the best around, luckily, the guy's chin was one of the best ever and thus he can eat whatever Kessler dishes out all night long.

I'll also add that Hagler dropped more rounds against B class opp than Mikkel did, have to add that because that feat from Mikkel is extremely impressive, nobody does that off the top of my head, even Calzaghe for that matter.:yep

Kessler can't deal well with a guy who can control pace, but since he can fight at such a higher pace than most, he'd at least be level with Hagler at that point, where as Jones and Calzaghe control everything and really beat him badly prime/prime.

I'd bet anything some fool would say DLH and Wright beat Kessler prime to prime.:yep

[brooklyn1550]

I'd bet anything some fool would say DLH and Wright beat Kessler prime to prime.:yep

:lol: If not De La Hoya, than definitely Wright. I bet some would pick Taylor over Kessler too.

Good point about Kessler having difficulty with guys who can control the pace.

[Amsterdam]

:lol: If not De La Hoya, than definitely Wright. I bet some would pick Taylor over Kessler too.

Good point about Kessler having difficulty with guys who can control the pace.

With Kessler controlling pace, he shows very few weaknesses, if any at all.

You can't even talk about this stuff though even when being serious if people know you're a Calzaghe fan, because then they flush accurate facts down the toilet just because they think you're hyping Calzaghe, despite the fact that the facts remain from viewing.

Who from the 160-175 crop beats Kessler?

Calzaghe.

Dawson/Kessler is a 50/50, a slight edge for Dawson may be there.

The 160-175 crop is LOADED with talent. This says plenty to me about Kessler's level, add to the fact that we can analyse fighters correctly to where they stand.

I'd bet a prime Trinidad beats Kessler at 168 also.:yep

[Scar]

No result, Calzaghe refuses to fight because of over 1 million excuses, prime for prime that is. Right now?, Calzaghe wins but only in England.

[brooklyn1550]

With Kessler controlling pace, he shows very few weaknesses, if any at all.

You can't even talk about this stuff though even when being serious if people know you're a Calzaghe fan, because then they flush accurate facts down the toilet just because they think you're hyping Calzaghe, despite the fact that the facts remain from viewing.

Who from the 160-175 crop beats Kessler?

Calzaghe.

Dawson/Kessler is a 50/50, a slight edge for Dawson may be there.

The 160-175 crop is LOADED with talent. This says plenty to me about Kessler's level, add to the fact that we can analyse fighters correctly to where they stand.

I'd bet a prime Trinidad beats Kessler at 168 also.:yep

Who beats Kessler from 160-175?

Calzaghe and maybe Dawson. Other than that, Hopkins, Pavlik, Taylor, Abraham, Bute, Erdei, and Woods all get beat - I have no questions about that.

I'm sick of people analyzing wins and fighters based on name value and popularity. What counts more is the level in which the fighters perform at the time. Going by that, Calzaghe's wide UD victory over Kessler is most certainly above wins such as Hatton KO4 Castillo and Mayweather TKO10 Hatton.

Vargas would have beaten Kessler by the way.

[Amsterdam]

Who beats Kessler from 160-175?

Calzaghe and maybe Dawson. Other than that, Hopkins, Pavlik, Taylor, Abraham, Bute, Erdei, and Woods all get beat - I have no questions about that.


Exactly and the ability to defeat all of that talent makes you a pretty significant level ELITE fighter in my opinion.


I'm sick of people analyzing wins and fighters based on name value and popularity. What counts more is the level in which the fighters perform at the time. Going by that, Calzaghe's wide UD victory over Kessler is most certainly above wins such as Hatton KO4 Castillo and Mayweather TKO10 Hatton.


I'm sick of this crap too, they can't analyse anything but set statistics and it's not me pimping Calzaghe, because I say this for any fighter and all of the underrated talent the sport has.

A win over even a past prime Forrest at LHW, would put Floyd into sky rocketed levels, he'd have defeated a massive guy who has the worst style for him possible and therefore I am judging not on the past prime name, but what Floyd had to overcome to win. They wouldn't see it this way, what would be bigger balls than facing Forrest.

Facing Forrest is so difficult, I would never expect Floyd to ever do it and wouldn't criticise him even if Forrest made a mockery of him calling him out.

But I do expect him to fight Cotto.

Vargas would have beaten Kessler by the way.

:rofl :rofl

Tarver would KTFO Kessler in 3 rounds in June of 2008!:rofl

[digiram]

I love Hagler. Especially, since I grew up in Boston and my pops was a big fan of his. We both thought that he won the fight against Leonard, but he could've and should've done more to win more convincingly.

This fight's a 50/50. Calzahge's quick, elusive, and quite slick for a 168 lb. boxer. Also, has excellent ring smarts. Hagler, excellent pressure fighter, powerfull and quick hands. I don't know. I'd be rootin for Hagler, that's for sure.

[cuchulain]

Hagler was a great legendary middleweight.

But he was the weakest of the four legends of that weight and era. (Leonard, Duran and Hearns being the others).



I personally believe he beat Leonard, but it was very close.

He DID struggle with Duran, a natural lightweight.

The only one he holds thw W over is Hearns, who fought the wrong fight.

Calzaghe is a 'big' 168, is as fast as Hagler, has more tools in his arsenal and is more skilled generally.

He would UD Hagler and it wouldn't be as close as most think.

[bill poster]

In my eyes,Hagler was not the biggest of middleweights, in fact he looked more suited to light middle, framewise. The Duran fight raised some questions about Haglers ATGness.

[sugarkills]

I think people here overrate Joe a little too much. Calslappy would not win, even if he did get the decision :lol:

[Thread Stealer]

Hagler was a great legendary middleweight.

But he was the weakest of the four legends of that weight and era. (Leonard, Duran and Hearns being the others).



I personally believe he beat Leonard, but it was very close.

He DID struggle with Duran, a natural lightweight.

The only one he holds thw W over is Hearns, who fought the wrong fight.

Calzaghe is a 'big' 168, is as fast as Hagler, has more tools in his arsenal and is more skilled generally.

He would UD Hagler and it wouldn't be as close as most think.

How is Calzaghe more skilled than Hagler?

[warrior85]

hell of a match up,i had to really think about this 1 in the end i picked calzaghe,prob on a sd

[Skills n Reflexes]

Have I missed something? Injuries maybe?

Was there any particular reason to as why Hagler struggled with Duran?

Fuck me, Joe struggled with Sakio Bika, Kabery Salem & Tocker Pud-No-Skill.... can't base fights on sub-par performances. Both fighters at their best, then you get an accurate picture.



SnR

[booradley]

Hagler wins this fight, by knockout . . .what round? Any round Hagler fucking wants!

Preach it brutha! Peach it!:yep

Boo

[brooklyn1550]

The Duran fight raised some questions about Haglers ATGness.

No, it didn't. He struggled a little more than he should have, but definitely deserved a clear decision. Every great fighter has some close fights.

[Amsterdam]

No, it didn't. He struggled a little more than he should have, but definitely deserved a clear decision. Every great fighter has some close fights.

But it did do more for Duran's regard than Hagler's in the end. I tend to think of it this way, Duran is one of the best fighters of all time and fought extremely smart here, it does well for his regard and not so much Hagler's.

But it also doesn't take away from Hagler either, as Duran was plain and simply that great of a fighter.

I wish a Roberto Duran was around today, to show these ignorant Floyd fanboys that he's certainly far from 'unbeatable'.:yep

[brooklyn1550]

But it did do more for Duran's regard than Hagler's in the end. I tend to think of it this way, Duran is one of the best fighters of all time and fought extremely smart here, it does well for his regard and not so much Hagler's.

But it also doesn't take away from Hagler either, as Duran was plain and simply that great of a fighter.

I wish a Roberto Duran was around today, to show these ignorant Floyd fanboys that he's certainly far from 'unbeatable'.:yep

The win definitely did more for Duran than Hagler. When people bring up Hagler, when speaking about Duran, they talk about how he lasted the distance and was very game. On the other side of the coin, you hear how Hagler struggled with a lightweight and would have lost a decision had it been a 12 round fight.

But I'm glad you don't question Hagler's ATG status because of the Duran fight:good

Duran CLEANS OUT 135, 140, and 147 today. I would bet some good money on him over Mayweather, Cotto, Williams, Cintron, Hatton, whoever...

I will go as far as to say he might be underrated by some people on this forum.

[Amsterdam]

And this "Calzaghe struggled with Reid, Bika..Hagler would kill him' type logic should fuck off. That is so flawed, cause in that case, Kessler should have beaten him.

Calzaghe gets up for the big fights :deal

You know, I don't have a problem if somebody favours Hagler off the bat, no problems at all. Picking an ATG is not a big deal.

But this Hagler TKO 5 bullshit is absurd.

Hagler would rightfully be a clear underdog outright and he's fighting a terrible style for him in this fantasy match up with Joe.

[Amsterdam]

The win definitely did more for Duran than Hagler. When people bring up Hagler, when speaking about Duran, they talk about how he lasted the distance and was very game. On the other side of the coin, you hear how Hagler struggled with a lightweight and would have lost a decision had it been a 12 round fight.

But I'm glad you don't question Hagler's ATG status because of the Duran fight:good

Duran CLEANS OUT 135, 140, and 147 today. I would bet some good money on him over Mayweather, Cotto, Williams, Cintron, Hatton, whoever...

I will go as far as to say he might be underrated by some people on this forum.

How can Hagler's ATG status be questioned? I rate him better than Hopkins, even though I'd pick a prime Hopkins to beat him close in a 15 rounder. Hagler's resume is fantastic, it's much better than Hopkins' is.

My MW ATG list goes as -

1.Monzon
2.Hagler
3.Hopkins

And back to Duran, on top of all that, I'd favour his 154 and 160 versions over any of the guys in the divisions today.

If you can go close with Marvin Hagler, you can certainly easily beat Taylor, Pavlik, Abraham and the 154 crew, oh, and Winky.

[Amsterdam]

The Welsh dragon wins a close points decision.. Over 12 or 15 rounds.

In a 15 rounder I even this up a bit more.

[pit]

Have I missed something? Injuries maybe?

Was there any particular reason to as why Hagler struggled with Duran?

yeah Duran is a damed skilled boxer.

[brownpimp88]

How can Hagler's ATG status be questioned? I rate him better than Hopkins, even though I'd pick a prime Hopkins to beat him close in a 15 rounder. Hagler's resume is fantastic, it's much better than Hopkins' is.

My MW ATG list goes as -

1.Monzon
2.Hagler
3.Hopkins

And back to Duran, on top of all that, I'd favour his 154 and 160 versions over any of the guys in the divisions today.

If you can go close with Marvin Hagler, you can certainly easily beat Taylor, Pavlik, Abraham and the 154 crew, oh, and Winky.
it wasnt a close fight at all, 10-5 hagler. Duran lost to kirklaind laing and robbie sims, im sure pavlik and taylor would have a really good chance at beating him.

[BOSTONREDSOX]

hagler beats his ass plain and simple

[Fighting Weight]

At least the voting in this poll is getting back to more sensible levels now...

[JohnThomas1]

Joe's size and speed are the keys here. He matches up well. I like him by competitive decision.

[China_hand_Joe]

Fuck me, Joe struggled with Sakio Bika, Kabery Salem & Tocker Pud-No-Skill.... can't base fights on sub-par performances. Both fighters at their best, then you get an accurate picture.



SnR

And SRL?

These are two big fights and he was shit against both.

Sure Hagler is a legend, righfully so.

But he is a lower end legend, below SRL, below Duran and below the bigger Calzaghe.

[JonOli]

Joe isn't SRL.

[Ospreys_Warrior]

Jc is listed at an even 6 foot but dosen't look it:nono more like 5-10 or 5-11 boxers and the media always exaggerate their height:deal why i don't know it just works that way..

Love it:D Now youre trying to discredit him by claiming he pretends hes bigger than he really is. Having met the guy, i can confirm he is approximately the same height as me...and im 6ft.

Nice try though, he doesnt look it, and fighters often lie about their height:rofl

[LiamE]

Fuck me, Joe struggled with Sakio Bika, Kabery Salem & Tocker Pud-No-Skill.... can't base fights on sub-par performances. Both fighters at their best, then you get an accurate picture.



SnR

Congratualtions. You are the most clueless poster on the thread.

Clazaghe struggled with Pudwill? Which round did he struggle in? The 10-7 first round, or the round he stopped him?

[DINAMITA]

And SRL?

These are two big fights and he was shit against both.

Sure Hagler is a legend, righfully so.

But he is a lower end legend, below SRL, below Duran and below the bigger Calzaghe.

Below Calzaghe pound-for-pound? Your opinion just stopped counting on this thread. :-(

I suppose Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler are better than Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran. This forum is going down the toilet with shit like this getting posted.

[draw99]

suppose Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler are better than Thomas Hearns and Roberto Duran. This forum is going down the toilet with shit like this getting posted.

Well said :good

Even with the effective two weight divisions difference (as someone earlier pointed out), I cant believe the number of people going for Calzaghe. Extraordinary!

Have Al Qaeda poisened the water supply and sent everyone nuts or something :nut

[The Phenom]

50-50 fight voted for Hagler

[carias]

And SRL?

These are two big fights and he was shit against both.

Sure Hagler is a legend, righfully so.

But he is a lower end legend, below SRL, below Duran and below the bigger Calzaghe.

Wow, can you name anyfighters that Joe faced that are in the same pantheon as Hearns, Duran, and Leonard? To say Hagler beat 2 of them and arguably the third puts him already well above Calzaghe's Lacy, Kessler, and 43 year old Popkins. Hagler wins.

[LiamE]

Wow, can you name anyfighters that Joe faced that are in the same pantheon as Hearns, Duran, and Leonard? To say Hagler beat 2 of them and arguably the third puts him already well above Calzaghe's Lacy, Kessler, and 43 year old Popkins. Hagler wins.

Where would you rank Duran Hearns and Leonards in terms of H2H at LHW in their day?

[carias]

Where would you rank Duran Hearns and Leonards in terms of H2H at LHW in their day?

that was directed to the idea that Hagler is a "lesser" legend than Calzaghe.

[r_9-Ronaldo]

i like the idiots going around here calling jermain taylor a joke, what are they gonna say when he knocks out joe calzaghes second best win?

[Hatesrats]

Hagler

[China_hand_Joe]

Look at all the weirdo's who picked Calzaghe. hahahaha. A past his prime Marvin went even up with Sugar Ray Leonard. Calzaghe is being compared to these guys now? Good grief.


Sugar Ray was not a great fighter over 168 pounds.

Sugar Ray admits he would stand no chance against Calzaghe.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Calzaghe dwarfs him in addition to Joe's superior speed and skill.

[Holmes' Jab]

Hagler in a close one.

[Holmes' Jab]

Calzaghe dwarfs him in addition to Joe's superior speed and skill.


Leonard is every bit as fast and more skilled than Calzaghe, and that ain't knocking Calzaghe. just the truth.

[Rise Above]

Haglers got this one.

[carias]

Sugar Ray was not a great fighter over 168 pounds.

Sugar Ray admits he would stand no chance against Calzaghe.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Calzaghe dwarfs him in addition to Joe's superior speed and skill.

Superior speed and skill?!? More skills than Sugar Ray!!?! That sir, is ridiculous.

[JonOli]

Hagler is one of the worst of the post 1970s 'super legends'. Calzaghe an upper-end 'super legend'. Calzaghe is a league above, maybe two. That much is clear.

I'm simply don't rate Hagler like most people.


Hagler is an absolute legend.

[r_9-Ronaldo]

Sugar Ray was not a great fighter over 168 pounds.

Sugar Ray admits he would stand no chance against Calzaghe.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Calzaghe dwarfs him in addition to Joe's superior speed and skill.
superior speed and skill? what have you been smoking