Holmes vs berbick- more competive then i thought

[Rocket]

I had the fight 9-6 Holmes. i am suprised this fight is not talked about more it was a good fight and Holmes had his hands full, a good 15th round too

[SuzieQ49]

that close? wow! considering tyson demolished berbick with ease

[SuzieQ49]

was holmes really on that much higher a level than tubbs, thomas, witherspoon, page, coetzee, dokes.......perhaps we really dont know. he defintley was more consistent, but the more i study holmes the more he didnt prove himself totally without question the dominant heavyweight of his era

[Sonny's jab]

I haven't seen the fight.

According to boxrec the judges scores :
Joe Swessel 150-135
Chuck Minker 146-139
Lou Tabat 146-140

That's a 15-0 shutout on one card !
And I guess 11-4 on the other.
And 11-3-1 on the other. (I think)

[Mendoza]

I haven't seen the fight.

According to boxrec the judges scores :
Joe Swessel 150-135
Chuck Minker 146-139
Lou Tabat 146-140

That's a 15-0 shutout on one card !
And I guess 11-4 on the other.
And 11-3-1 on the other. (I think)

One poster said 9-6 for Holmes? I haven't seen this one in a while, but I remember Holmes winning more to the tune of 11-4.

[ChrisPontius]

I had the fight 9-6 Holmes. i am suprised this fight is not talked about more it was a good fight and Holmes had his hands full, a good 15th round too

I haven't seen the fight either, but unless a lot of rounds were close, 9-6 is a good win, nothing close.

[Woddy]

was holmes really on that much higher a level than tubbs, thomas, witherspoon, page, coetzee, dokes.......perhaps we really dont know. he defintley was more consistent, but the more i study holmes the more he didnt prove himself totally without question the dominant heavyweight of his era

For once I think you may be on to something SuzieQ. When we look at Holmes' best performances, he was not necessarily leagues more impressive than those fighters you mentioned, but the consistency thing is what set him apart from the rest. Perhaps this was because he was one of the few fighters from that period who wasn't using his nose like a vacuum cleaner.

[DamonD]

I haven't seen the fight.

According to boxrec the judges scores :
Joe Swessel 150-135
Chuck Minker 146-139
Lou Tabat 146-140

That's a 15-0 shutout on one card !
And I guess 11-4 on the other.
And 11-3-1 on the other. (I think)
15-0 Holmes
11-4 Holmes
10-4-1 Holmes

I haven't seen this one in aaaaages but no way in hell was it a 15-0 fight. Berbick did alright for himself, got his jab going at times and remained fairly competative...Holmes the clear winner of course.

[Mendoza]

that close? wow! considering tyson demolished berbick with ease

Tyson fought a lot of guys that Holmes had already defeated, and never dared to pick Witherpoon for a title defense.



While Tyson did better than Holmes vs Berbick, Holmes TKO'd Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson took Bonecrusher the distance.

[brownpimp88]

Larry Holmes got dropped by snipes. An old norton won 6 rounds off him, he arguably lost to a green witherspoon and carl williams. Weaver was giving him a really tough fight prior to the stoppage. The more i watch holmes, the less impressed i get. Tyson DESTROYED his contenders, something larry failed to accomplish.

[Woddy]

Larry Holmes got dropped by snipes. An old norton won 6 rounds off him, he arguably lost to a green witherspoon and carl williams. Weaver was giving him a really tough fight prior to the stoppage. The more i watch holmes, the less impressed i get. Tyson DESTROYED his contenders, something larry failed to accomplish.

Although I don't agree with everything here, I can certainly see some merit in much of what you say.

The number of decisive wins that Holmes had over top rated opposition is very low. Most of his destructive victories came against mediocre fighters, while his best wins ended in controversy. He rarely defended his title against the most deserving of challengers, and in the end lost his belt with a lot of unfinished business behind him. The only thing I disagree with, is giving Tyson credit for looking more impressive in beating Holmes left overs. Those fighters were never very good to begin with, and many of them faced Holmes in his declining years, while facing Tyosn in his prime. Not to mention the fact that Tyson was a brutal puncher while Holmes was a boxer who we can expect to take more rounds to defeat a foe.

At anyrate, your post was a well written and valid one.

[SuzieQ49]

Tyson fought a lot of guys that Holmes had already defeated, and never dared to pick Witherpoon for a title defense.



While Tyson did better than Holmes vs Berbick, Holmes TKO'd Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson took Bonecrusher the distance.


Tyson demolished guys like bonecrusher smith, pinklon thomas who both clearly beat tim witherspoon. witherspoon was out of shape and coked up by the time of the late 1980s and he would have been no match for a peak tyson.

tyson demolished the best 1980s contenders/alpha champs with ease. witherspoon seemed to not want to fight tyson. all he had to do was beat substitute bonecrusher smith, and bonecrusher knocked him out in 1 round. imagine what tyson would have done to spoon. holmes fans tend to overate spoon but he was no better than thomas, tubbs, or dokes.

Holmes TKO'd Bonecrusher Smith, and Tyson took Bonecrusher the distance

thats because boneclutcher held on for dear life. tyson won every single one of the 12 rounds. bonecrusher had holmes in trouble and hurt during the fight, he was lot more competitive vs holmes.


tyson also faired far better vs carl williams than holmes did


tyson demolished top alpha champs like tubbs, thomas, tucker who holmes didnt fight.

[Woddy]

[
quote=SuzieQ49]witherspoon seemed to not want to fight tyson. all he had to do was beat substitute bonecrusher smith, and bonecrusher knocked him out in 1 round.

This post clearly dictates that you do not have an understanding of the circumstances nor politics of the times. I think you mentioned at one point that you are currently a college student, which reflects that you were not around then.

I will not waste my time arguing this any further, nor attempt to explain it to you. Someone else will likely pick up where I left off, especially if you continue to repeat yourself which you often do.

[SuzieQ49]

This post clearly dictates that you do not have an understanding of the circumstances nor politics of the times. I think you mentioned at one point that you are currently a college student, which reflects that you were not around then.

I will not waste my time arguing this any further, nor attempt to explain it to you. Someone else will likely pick up where I left off, especially if you continue to repeat yourself which you often do.


LOL Your posts in general dictate that for a man your age, you do not have satisfactory boxing knowledge nor perhaps enough common sense. You have demonstrated that your a classic classless individual trying to use the age gap as reasoning that I do not understand. I think it is you who does not understand. I have ring magazine issues nearly every month of the 1980s, yes I have read them all. I have other countless newspaper articles that I collect of the generation. If you want to question my boxing knowledge, then fine do so, at your own accord. But the posters here have seen my boxing knowledge firsthand.


Fact remains that Tim Witherspoon was knocked out in 1 round by bonecrusher smith. You say tyson then ducked witherspoon, wheres your proof? I do remember reading about the press calling for a tyson-spoon matchup until spoon let his shape go to waste and got knocked out by bonecrusher in 1 round. I do however have articles stating that they specifically wanted tyson to take on razor ruddock and evander holyfield. You talk about the politics of the time, yes I know all about them with king. But fact is tyson in a 3 year span was taking on all the other top alpha champs who were either BEATING spoon or doing better than spoon.



how bout providing some evidence tyson avoided witherspoon?

also how do you think a way out of shape "man boobs" late 1980s witherspoon would have done vs a peak mike tyson? not rather well I assume

[JohnThomas1]

thats because boneclutcher held on for dear life. tyson won every single one of the 12 rounds. bonecrusher had holmes in trouble and hurt during the fight, he was lot more competitive vs holmes.


Fair call here. Bonecrusher gave Larry a helluva fight and stunned him at times too. He didn't turn up to win vs Tyson, he was there to survive. One good punch in the last round was about it for him that night.

[SuzieQ49]

john,

whats a good australian beer to try?

[RoccoMarciano]

john,

whats a good australian beer to try?

Whatever the girl is his avatar is wearing.

[JohnThomas1]

john,

whats a good australian beer to try?
Go for standard Crown Lager out of the upper class. There's some good new ones but start here. I've drank a fair bit of Crown Gold lately, the mid strength one. Don't want to get too out of line on a Saturday night in here

:lol:



[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Woddy]

=SuzieQ49]LOL Your posts in general dictate that for a man your age, you do not have satisfactory boxing knowledge nor perhaps enough common sense.

Its laughable that you label me as having unsatisfactory knowledge and lacking in common sense, when over the last few days, you have been called on multiple occasions for giving incorrect information about fighter's ratings and have repeatedly been cought contradicting yourself in debates. Not to mention, starting whole threads entitled with crap like " Vitali Klitschko knocked down Corrie Sanders. " Any idiot can watch that fight on youtube and see that there was no knockdown. Even the referee declared that there was no knockdown. Almost every poster who responded to your thread told you there was no knockdown, but you continued to rant on. I think I heard another poster mention that you started this same thread not once, but twice in the same year? By the way, the Smith-Witherspoon fight was highly speculated by many to be a fix, and Witherspoon's falling out with King had nothing to do with your revisionist ideas about him not wanting to face Tyson.

You have demonstrated that your a classic classless individual

A classic-classless individual...Hmmmm...:huh


trying to use the age gap as reasoning that I do not understand.

My reasoning of your ignorance stems from your uninformed statements.

I think it is you who does not understand.

I think you've pretty much established yourself that this is not the case.

I have ring magazine issues nearly every month of the 1980s, yes I have read them all. I have other countless newspaper articles that I collect of the generation. If you want to question my boxing knowledge, then fine do so, at your own accord.

You don't always seem to use your resources to the best of your advantage.


But the posters here have seen my boxing knowledge firsthand.

Sure, Chris Pointius, Mr. Magoo, Mendoza and Manassa will all attest to this I Imagine.


Fact remains that Tim Witherspoon was knocked out in 1 round by bonecrusher smith.

Yes, but its not quite that simple.


You say tyson then ducked witherspoon, wheres your proof?

I made no such claim.


I do remember reading about the press calling for a tyson-spoon matchup until spoon let his shape go to waste and got knocked out by bonecrusher in 1 round.

No such match between Tyson and Witherspoon was ever going to happen.


I do however have articles stating that they specifically wanted tyson to take on razor ruddock and evander holyfield.

Neither of those men had yet breached the ratings in 1986/87, when the title was in the process of being unified, and Witherspoon had lost to Boncrusher. What in the hell are you even talking about?


You talk about the politics of the time, yes I know all about them with king. But fact is tyson in a 3 year span was taking on all the other top alpha champs who were either BEATING spoon or doing better than spoon.



Again you lack understanding here.


how bout providing some evidence tyson avoided witherspoon?


1. I never said Tyson ducked Witherspoon

2. I am not the one who should be presenting evidence of anything since I'm not the one talking out his ass.



also how do you think a way out of shape "man boobs" late 1980s witherspoon would have done vs a peak mike tyson? not rather well I assume.


You've never seen Witherspoon fight. That much is certain.

[JohnThomas1]

Lets get back to topic please

BEER!!


:lol: