Larsen needs a knockout

[Throwing doubles]

Outpointing journeymen over the distance doesn't do much good for a fighter who sees himself as puncher.
Who should Larsen fight next?
I'd say he should fight someone with a sore chin. Then have a fight scheduled shortly afterwards not to waste time. I think he the poor boy needs a knockout.

[unitas]

this "journeyman" had just floored and almost beaten hotshot jürgen brähmer!!!

outpointing him is pretty good.

[BennitheHill]

Larsen has all the tools but when he is fighting I often get the feeling he is holding back. I think he's afraid of getting hit and therefore he is not willing to go for the KO.. It was the same when he faced Ottke. He was in control of the fight, but he just didn't put the right pressure and that made Ottke's poor punching look good.

[Jens S]

Larsen sees himself as a counterpuncher, and he is following that strategy in his new surroundings. A EBU title fight with Sanavia would be perfect. Sanavia is highly ranked by the world alphabet soup and hold a good title. He is a weak champion and Larsen would be a huge favorite.

Jens

[Throwing doubles]

Larsen might see himself as a counterpuncher stylewise, but I'll bet he sees himself as a counterpuncher with a punch. It was btw interesting to see how he was all up for saying hello to the argentian after the rounds he got caught in - while he was playing it cool when he himself had the upper hand.
Larsen has been used to stopping opponents and he'll expect his punch to make a difference when fighting weaker opposition. It has not done that yet in his comeback. He needs a knockout, no question.
As far as I know the argentian fought Braehmer one month before Larsen. That makes him even more of journeyman doesn't it?
I'd like to see Larsen against any well prepared fighter who fancies his own chances.

[henrik]

:boxx i think mads larsen will be back on track very soon.
I think he allways have had great boxing skills,and he´s an okay puncher.
but mentally i think he´s not that strong.
but its good to have him back again,and i think he will be in top 5 in smw,after 5 more fights!!

[Throwing doubles]

They should make Larsen-Markussen in Germany. That fight would generate a decent danish audience.
But I don't think Markussen will fight again... and maybe Mads would run all night to earn a decision, Markussen being helplessly sluggish after two rounds.

[pecks]

He should probably fight Thysse next.
Thysse seems to always be on someones resurrection express these days.

It'll be interesting to see how Larsen progresses, though I think it's unlikely he'll climb into the top 5 at 168.

[Throwing doubles]

Did you read my post, Blackburn twat. Larsen needed rounds in the beginning. Now he needs a knockout to gain confidence in his punch. And a new fight scheduled shortly after.

[Odo]

this "journeyman" had just floored and almost beaten hotshot jürgen brähmer!!!

outpointing him is pretty good.

I quite agree with you,unitas!

Velasquez a journeyman? Hm! He was a former world champ,and is still above the legions of the so-called journeymen in terms of skills and the ability to give hell to most top fighters of his weight division.
Braehmer barely managed to win a point decision against that "journeyman".
Larsen did an excellent job by outpointing and dominating such a tough opponent the way he did.Props to Larsen!He for sure didnt need to knock the tough Argie out.

[Jens S]

Larsens defensive boxing is already at a high level. He needs something in the offensive, but what he needs is more rounds against a tough opponent. An easy KO is not worth much more than sparring. Larsen needs to be able to build combinations against tough opposition. So put him in with a guy the level higher than Velazco.

Jens

[henrik]

:blood give the guy a chance!!! he ahs been aWAY FROM THE RING FOR YEARS,when he was at team palle i didnt like him that mutch...but i have truely respekt for him trying to come back.after several years away from the spotlight...

[Throwing doubles]

An argentinian fighting twice the same month in Europe - both times as the matchmakers intended loser. That's the very definition of a journeyman. Former champ - in another division, without winning the title - or not.
Everybody knows you're not supposed to knock down sparring partners. I've seen it happen several times often with a lot of tension if not bad feelings afterwards.
Larsen needs confidence in his punching power in a real fight, with fight gloves. Give him that. Then move on quickly.

[Throwing doubles]

BTW - journeyman is not the same as opponent or as tomato can. I don't think it's degrading to be called a journeyman. It's close to gate keeper.

[Jens S]

So Larsen was a journeyman when he fought Häussler?

The term journeyman is used as something negative. It is not. It just describes where a fighter is fighting. You have very good fighters fighting as journeymen. Even world champions have in reality been journeymen defending their titles.

Jens

[Throwing doubles]

Was he a matchmakers intended loser in both fights? Or was he as a contender fighting open championship fights?
If you can answer yes to that, you can also use you're no logic technique on some one else.
Look at the post before teaching others.

[Throwing doubles]

I'll recommend every one to actually read Michael Murrays book Journeyman. He is very good at explaining what it feels like to be in the different categories, how the journeymen, opponents etc. perceives themselves.
As a great bonus you'll get a funny story of him being picked up in the airport by Brian Nielsen who was apparently farting all over the place. Good stuff.

[Jens S]

Sauerland accepted both fights. If he had said no there would have been no fights. Häussler would have given up his title, but Larsen was supposed to lose both fights. Remember that the fight was close on the scorecards until the last two rounds!

Larsen needs confidence in his offensive boxing, not his power. He won't win anything with his power. He will win it with his boxing skills.

Larsen showed fine defensive boxing against an opponent that gave Brähmer a tough fight. Yes, Velazco was probably drained somewhat from that fight, but it showed Larsen is on the right way.

Sadly there is no news of an opponent, so it seems Larsen will have to wait a long time for a title fight of value (EBU or World title).

Jens

[Jens S]

Throwing Doubles, what ticked me of a bit was much more that you put journeyman in a negative way. You are right when you say they are not tomato cans. Fighting on the road is tougher and yet some of these fighters get a good career anyway. Fighters like Manuel Medina and Daniel Zaragoza fought on the road all their career. Zaragoza made to the Hall of Fame. A journeyman par excellence.

About Larsen: In my eyes the only reason for him to get an easy fight would be for a EBU title fight in september.

Jens

[Throwing doubles]

Sauerland accepted both fights because he couldn't do anything else. It was not a case of actual matchmaking like it has been with Larsens latest opponents who has been handpicked. Larsen was mandatory at least to Häussler and he probably was to Ottke too, can't remember.
I respect journeymen, without them there would be no boxing as we know it (though there's room for improvement). But journeymen are still journeymen, which means nobody, no one, are serving their best interest as sportsmen, only financially, if they're lucky. Why? Because their potential is limited.
The term is not exclusively refering to where they're fighting, but also to their function as dummies for more protected fighters. Those dummies come in different classes. Journeymen belong in the upper league compared to opponents and of course to tomato cans...
Michael Murrays says it's like this: Bodies 45 pct., journeymen 40 pct. prospects 10 pct. the rest champions. It's a high degree of champions, but probably true if you count all titlists as champions.
I don't think and EBU fight would be easy for Larsen. But I would be glad to be surprised. I wish him the best, but I think he needs a knockout to strengthen his self belief. Some people think otherwise.

[mc50341]

I hope Mads Larsen choose and get the opportunity the become the number one smw in germany meaning fighting the best from Universum or Sauerland. So perhaps Denis Inkin would be a great match up. Because if he first become the best in Germany, then the future title fights will be much easier for him to get... The audience would demand it... Fight Inkin or perhaps Danilo/Jürgen... It would be a test on top level, he need a fight against one of those just outside the very best, because if he does not manage to win such a fight, well then he might as well retire... Mads Larsen - wish you the best of luck

[Odo]

Larsen ' s next foe is Australian based Arab Nader Hamdan. The Dane will appear on the undercard of Ghevor vs Abraham.
Since I have the intention to watch that fight card live I am glad to learn that Larsen will showcase his skills on the undercard against a decent opponent.

[Throwing doubles]

Didn't you say he would fight Naser Hamdan. He doesn't fit the decent description.
Looks like another 8 boring rounds

[Bozza]

Larsen ' s next foe is Australian based Arab Nader Hamdan. The Dane will appear on the undercard of Ghevor vs Abraham.
Since I have the intention to watch that fight card live I am glad to learn that Larsen will showcase his skills on the undercard against a decent opponent.

Australian based Arab?

I thin k you'll find Nader has been in Australian most of his life....

[Fat Tony]

how about Markus Bayer?

Markus Beyer is still injured. I don't think he'll fight again.
And Larsen and Beyer do have the same coach - Ulli Wegner.

[Odo]

Australian based Arab?

I thin k you'll find Nader has been in Australian most of his life....

What's your point? I have spent a considerable amount of time in Germany. My bosnian workmate has been living in Germany for over 36 years.However,his native soil and the home of his soul is still Bosnia.
Hamdan has been living in Australia for a long time.So what?

[Jens S]

What does his passport say? There is your answer to his nationality.

Jens

[Fat Tony]

Hey your avatar say your from Germany (Bavaria) is that true?

I am from Bavaria. Why do you ask?

[boxfan99]

i komme auch von bayern doch lebe jetzt in Australia

Maybe you should think about replacing the "i" with "ich".:p ;)

[Decebal]

Maybe you should think about replacing the "i" with "ich".:p ;)

...and "Australia" with "Australien"...:D

[Fat Tony]

Maybe you should think about replacing the "i" with "ich".:p ;)

You aren't familar with the glorious Bavarian dialect, are you?
Bavarian "I" = German "Ich".

[Decebal]

You aren't familar with the glorious Bavarian dialect, are you?
Bavarian "I" = German "Ich".

But it's pronounced "i" not "ai", right?

[Fat Tony]

But it's pronounced "i" not "ai", right?

You're right, geek. :thumbsup
Like the "e" of the English alphabet.

[Decebal]

You're right, geek. :thumbsup
Like the "e" of the English alphabet.

:lol: :roll:

[Odo]

What does his passport say? There is your answer to his nationality.

Jens

Dont be silly,jens!

A passport is just a piece of paper.Admittingly,a very important piece of paper,but it for sure doesnt change your nationality.

[Jens S]

...oh, I forgot. To you people can't change nationality. But in the west people are seen as individuals and not something a state own. The american-italians are american. Not italian. The irish-american are american. But not in the eyes of people in Eastern Europe? We have had this discussion befiore, and I won't go down path further as it is futile. Most people from Eastern Europe simply can't see the difference between origin and nationality.

Jens

[Decebal]

Most people from Eastern Europe simply can't see the difference between origin and nationality.

Jens

It's not that...but what you call "nationality", Eastern Europeans call "ethnicity". This is why I am surprised whenever I see in my passport under Nationality: British Citizen...because to me "nationality" and "citizenship" are not the same thing, as an Eastern European...

[Half-Dane]

Hey, wenn ihr schon den Draht kapert, will ich auch dabei sein. Bin zwar däne aber mein deutsch ist nicht schlecht.

Anyway... I think Larsen is doing the right think building up relatively fast, but he is doing it to late. He should have quit Team Palle at least 5 yrs ago and shifted to a german or american promoter, he simply hadn't the disciplin or patient to build-up his carrer in his younger days and now I fear he is to old to become really great but good luck and I hope he surprises me.

[ChuckYoungblood]

Anyway... I think Larsen is doing the right think building up relatively fast, but he is doing it to late. He should have quit Team Palle at least 5 yrs ago and shifted to a german or american promoter, he simply hadn't the disciplin or patient to build-up his carrer in his younger days and now I fear he is to old to become really great but good luck and I hope he surprises me.

I agree. It looks like they are doing the right thing with Larsen - getting rid of the ring rust as quickly as possible. But IMO he looked very slow against Velasquez, both hands and feet. He will never get back to his former state.

I don't know Nader Hamdan, but the fight has the look of a boring UD for Mads Larsen.

[Odo]

...oh, I forgot. To you people can't change nationality. But in the west people are seen as individuals and not something a state own. The american-italians are american. Not italian. The irish-american are american. But not in the eyes of people in Eastern Europe? We have had this discussion befiore, and I won't go down path further as it is futile. Most people from Eastern Europe simply can't see the difference between origin and nationality.

Jens

Haha! Stupid russian speaking people! Cant understand the great Danes,can they!
A few years ago two Brasilian football player received a russian passport so that they could play for the russian football team.
Of course they are still Brasilians.Only someone from a madhouse would call them "Russians".

[Jens S]

Communist thinking dies slowly ;) But it is an old and futile discussion.

Hamdan is a good opponent, but he won't give Larsen real problems. I had hoped for a fight with Sanavia for the EBU-title, but Hamdan is a good "de-rusting" fight. But it also means that Larsen won't fight for a major title this year. The world titles is taken by Kessler/Calzaghe and Berrio/Häussler+Bute. Of course Mundine could be a solution, but I doubt it. The EBU-title will be Sanavia-Froch in the autumn. There was room for a voluntary defense in august-september, but that is gone now.

Jens

[Decebal]

Communist thinking dies slowly ;) But it is an old and futile discussion.



Funnily enough, it's not "communist thinking" at all! In fact, the opposite is true!...Communists were trying to blurr ethnic distinctions between the citizens of one country as much as possible. To them, being a Communist/ Non-Communist came first and foremost; your nationality/ethnicity came third, at best; it came after your class...

[Jens S]

Geee, so why did they do so much ethnic clenching? Stalin did it, just ask the jews or ukrainians. It didn't matter if they were communists. Pol Pot killed most anybody with a non-cambodian ethnicity. The idea was to create countries where people were the same and belonged to the state. If you came from a communist country, you were not an individual that could choose nationality. Because you were in reality owned by the state.

Communist thinking is that the individual doesn't count, and they are in reality the property of the state.

Western/liberal thinking is that you are an individual and you can make choices in your life. If you go to another country and get citizensship, you are then citizen there and not in your old country. People that are comming to Denmark and getting citizenship here are danes. Danes that go to other countries and citizenship there are no longer danes. That includes also sport stars.

Jens

[Decebal]

Geee, so why did they do so much ethnic clenching? Stalin did it, just ask the jews or ukrainians. It didn't matter if they were communists. Pol Pot killed most anybody with a non-cambodian ethnicity. The idea was to create countries where people were the same and belonged to the state. If you came from a communist country, you were not an individual that could choose nationality. Because you were in reality owned by the state.

Communist thinking is that the individual doesn't count, and they are in reality the property of the state.

Western/liberal thinking is that you are an individual and you can make choices in your life. If you go to another country and get citizensship, you are then citizen there and not in your old country. People that are comming to Denmark and getting citizenship here are danes. Danes that go to other countries and citizenship there are no longer danes. That includes also sport stars.

Jens

Exactly! Communists did it because ethnicity was very important to people, whilst to Communists it wasn't - it was an impediment in their way!

So....if a Dane comes to Britain and gets British citizenship she is no longer a Dane? She is simply a Brit who used to be a Dane? So, she goes out to the pub and people, noticing her accent ask: "Where are you from, love?" And she says: "I was born in Denmark, but now I live here." "So you're Danish!", the guy says. "No! I used to be Danish, but now I'm British!" - is that how it would go?:lol:

[Jens S]

Yes, she is! Take Thomas Christiansen (bundesliga topscorer). Original dane, but was never referred to as danes in Denmark after he switched citizenship to Spain. The press mentioned him as originally from Denmark, but called him spanish. If a mexican gets danish citizenship, he is a dane. People are free and have a choice. If a nation grants citizenship to a person, that person is then from that nation. The person has a different origin, ethnicity or what you would call it.

Jens

[boxfan99]

Geee, so why did they do so much ethnic clenching? Stalin did it, just ask the jews or ukrainians. It didn't matter if they were communists. Pol Pot killed most anybody with a non-cambodian ethnicity. The idea was to create countries where people were the same and belonged to the state. If you came from a communist country, you were not an individual that could choose nationality. Because you were in reality owned by the state.

Communist thinking is that the individual doesn't count, and they are in reality the property of the state.

Western/liberal thinking is that you are an individual and you can make choices in your life. If you go to another country and get citizensship, you are then citizen there and not in your old country. People that are comming to Denmark and getting citizenship here are danes. Danes that go to other countries and citizenship there are no longer danes. That includes also sport stars.

Jens

Jens, you are so wrong about this, just take a look at the muslims from the middle-east or the asian minorities in Denmark or the decendants of the east-European refugees Denmark recieved after WWII, all these people do not feel like Danes, they feel like a mixture of their old nationality and the Danish.

The same applies to Danes who go to live in other countries. A part of them are still "Danish" deep down, and I know the same would apply to me if I got another citizenship, I would still consider myself part Dane at heart. Just because you chose to live another place doesn't mean that you chose to forget where you came from.

Of course one could point at people from America, Australia and other places like that, and say that these people are 100% Americans or Aussies, but that has taken generations for them too get to this state.

[Decebal]

Jens, you are so wrong about this, just take a look at the muslims from the middle-east or the asian minorities in Denmark or the decendants of the east-European refugees Denmark recieved after WWII, all these people do not feel like Danes, they feel like a mixture of their old nationality and the Danish.

The same applies to Danes who go to live in other countries. A part of them are still "Danish" deep down, and I know the same would apply to me if I got another citizenship, I would still consider myself part Dane at heart. Just because you chose to live another place doesn't mean that you chose to forget where you came from.

Of course one could point at people from America, Australia and other places like that, and say that these people are 100% Americans or Aussies, but that has taken generations for them too get to this state.

Exactly! It takes more than a document to change one's identity, even if one does one's utmost to change into the chosen identity as quickly as possible. The Danish approach is overly legalistic - I wonder, would people call a man who's had JUST had the operation and started taking female hormones a "WOMAN", or would they call him/her "a bloke who's JUST had the operation and is taking female hormones"?:lol:

Maybe the Danish approach is trying to maintain social unity, by not allowing any differences between ethnicities to rock the boat...but to do it in such a crude way...I'm not sure it's doing the trick...in fact it's more likely to backfire, and make recent citizens feel guilty and "real" Danes feel resentful...

[Jens S]

They feel a part of them is dane, becuase they are ethnic danes and their origin is Denmark, but they are not danes anymore. When we discuss where a fighter is from, it is his citizenship that decides. Not if he was born in some country. Not what ethnic group he belongs to (else there would be no american heavyweight champ ever). Danish-americans feel a part of them is dane, because of their origin/ethnic group, but they are americans. A danish-american fighter is not a dane. He is american.

Jens

PS. The term "danish-american" does not suggest they are danes. It just tells you about the ethnicity of an american.

[Decebal]

They feel a part of them is dane, becuase they are ethnic danes and their origin is Denmark, but they are not danes anymore. When we discuss where a fighter is from, it is his citizenship that decides. Not if he was born in some country. Not what ethnic group he belongs to (else there would be no american heavyweight champ ever). Danish-americans feel a part of them is dane, because of their origin/ethnic group, but they are americans. A danish-american fighter is not a dane. He is american.

Jens

PS. The term "danish-american" does not suggest they are danes. It just tells you about the ethnicity of an american.

They are not Danish citizens, sure, and maybe root for the other side, but not Danish?? Danish-American, yeah, I can live with that...sure, you could argue that it just tells you about the ethnicity of an American, but ethnicity is important, that's why they call themselves Danish-Americans...Also, bear in mind that in America, ethnicity is not as important as say, in Denmark, because the former is a country of immigrants...the latter, not so...

[Decebal]

Hm, don´t know. Many of my friends here are of turkish descendence but were born and raised here. They speak turkish when they talk to each other and are muslims but they speak German as well as Turkish and see the German culture also as their own . They consider themselves as Turkish AND German and so they are. Same goes for a guy like Felix Sturm. He was born and raised here, in some interviews he says he is German in others he says is Bosnian. The truth is, he is both.
So when somebody lives a very large part of his live in another country he is from there as much as from the country he originally came.

Dead on!:good

[Jens S]

Yeah, you just come to the embassy of a nation and tell that you FEEL like a person from that nation. Then I am sure they will help you ;)

But let's stop here and just agree to disagree. As I wrote initially: it is a futile discussion.

Jens


PS. Today I feel Swiss and expect a cuckoo clock!

[Decebal]

Yeah, you just come to the embassy of a nation and tell that you FEEL like a person from that nation. Then I am sure they will help you ;)

But let's stop here and just agree to disagree. As I wrote initially: it is a futile discussion.

Jens


PS. Today I feel Swiss and expect a cuckoo clock!

there were quite a few British Asians (Muslims) in Guantanamo for quite a while who protested their innocence and the British government did fuck all...in fact, they helped interrogate them...I reckon this would not have been the case had they been "real" Englishmen...

...so, it wasn't their passport that made the biggest difference...

You're right, this discussion is futile, but probably quite a few discussions we might have would likely prove so too...:roll:

[Odo]

Yeah, you just come to the embassy of a nation and tell that you FEEL like a person from that nation. Then I am sure they will help you ;)

But let's stop here and just agree to disagree. As I wrote initially: it is a futile discussion.

Jens


PS. Today I feel Swiss and expect a cuckoo clock!

:DHaha! Hey,Swiss,you cant swich your nationality the same way you switch your pants!
Who will you be tomorrow?

[satyriion]

Funny thing was Andrade. He was mostly percieved as American although he was mexican but had grown up in the us.

[satyriion]

Kipketer was kenyan but had danish passports and nationality, but lived in monaco just as Kessler does

[Decebal]

Kipketer was kenyan but had danish passports and nationality, but lived in monaco just as Kessler does

I thought Kessler domiciled in Germany...

[Half-Dane]

I think he moved to Monaco for tax reasons.

[Throwing doubles]

So, anyone wanna bet? I say Larsen wins a boring decision tomorrow.

[Tom_Tocca]

So, anyone wanna bet? I say Larsen wins a boring decision tomorrow.
I go with you as Larsen will most probably win via UD bu it will be an entertaining fight cause Hamden will make it entertaining...

[dumdane]

will it be on ARD?
and if so - anyone know approximately what time?

[Tom_Tocca]

will it be on ARD?
and if so - anyone know approximately what time?
ARD, today at 11 pm
televised fights: AA-Gevor, Frenkel-Swartz
afterwards a short roundup of the other bouts - if you got lucky the televised bouts will end in a KO, though more time for the other bouts to be shown on TV.
If not tune in MDR the next day as they always show 2 hours summary of the ARD fightcards...

[dumdane]

ARD, today at 11 pm
televised fights: AA-Gevor, Frenkel-Swartz
afterwards a short roundup of the other bouts - if you got lucky the televised bouts will end in a KO, though more time for the other bouts to be shown on TV.
If not tune in MDR the next day as they always show 2 hours summary of the ARD fightcards...

Thanx:good

[boxfan99]

will it be on ARD?
and if so - anyone know approximately what time?

It will be on TV2 Sport if you can see that? The transmission starts at 20.30 GMT.

[Throwing doubles]

How right I was, boring as usual, well, at least less boring than last.

[Tom_Tocca]

Mads is a cool guy. Very humble and friendly - as Sauerland says, he is already a fan favourite in Germany...

[Throwing doubles]

Sure, so was Maske and Beyer. They're really into boring southpaw fighters in Germany. Oh, Ottke was a crowdpleaser too - in Germany.