Did the 12 round limit ruin the heavyweights?

[la-califa]

Did the 12 round limit ruin the Heavyweight Division?

[la-califa]

Before the rounds were reduced to twelve. overweight fighters were for the most part rare. Leroy Jones or Mathis. Since then a rash of overweight fighters have been in the division as never before in the history of Heavyweight boxing.

[badger6]

It ruined boxing as a whole. It just lets chumps like mayweather cruise to decision wins. The spirit of boxing is to win by stopping opponent, not a crooked decision by an ignorant judge !!!

[igotJUIC3]

it saved lives...15 round fights caused way too much damage with fighters because they no longer were able to protect themselves properly and would take beatings...even fighters who had already well lost the fight would only be there for the surprise KO but even then both fighters took way too much punishment.

[Heavyrighthand]

15 round fights sure were more entertaining to watch, as well as being more of a gruelling test of stamina and condition, much more than 12 rounds. Obivously, fewer fights went the distance when fighters had to fight an additional 3 rounds, while exhausted. You had fewer decision endings, which was much better than relying on judge's opinions so much, as we do now.


It was better for the fans and the excitement of the sport, certainly. I wish they'd bring back 15 rounders, but they never will in these safety first times.

[badger6]

it saved lives...15 round fights caused way too much damage with fighters because they no longer were able to protect themselves properly and would take beatings...even fighters who had already well lost the fight would only be there for the surprise KO but even then both fighters took way too much punishment.
Why don't we go to 6 round fights to save some more lives ??? These guys know the risks before going into the ring. Everything has risk !!!

[DanePugilist]

No they actually saved the viewer from 10 mins of boredom.

[igotJUIC3]

Why don't we go to 6 round fights to save some more lives ??? These guys know the risks before going into the ring. Everything has risk !!!

WOW.......:patsch

[badger6]

WOW.......:patsch

Wow what ???

[Mohak]

I don't know if it did save lives, fighters still come in drained or pile on weight on fight night and have an unfair advantage. We all can see the bad side of going down to 12 but I don't know if it really has saved lives.

[Rock0052]

I think more damage has come from advance weigh-in times as well as fighters draining themselves too much to make the lowest possible class than from 15 round fights.

If boxing wanted to get safer, bring back same day weigh-ins and elminate some weight classes. It'd never happen, but that would have a bigger effect (combined with most refs' attitudes about stopping fights much sooner than the old days) on saving fighters' lives.

[C Money]

Going from 15 to 12 was done in the name of saving lives, which came about after Ray Mancini killed duk-Koo kim. It would be interesting to see if the statistics since the change, would support the reasoning. IMO, it was done more for television formatting, so they could squeeze more commercials into a one hour time slot.

Personally, I prefer 15. They should have went to 13 at least and eliminated an even number of rounds. Boxing is a dangerous game and death can happen long before 12 or 15, and elminating THE CHAMPIONSHIP ROUNDS hasnt done the sport any favors as far as I'm concerned.

[Silverfox]

Lighter gloves should be used. This would result in a lot less accumulated damage. One or two power shots would disable, or knock the guy out.

15 rounds was a far better test of stamina & strategy.

[Titan1]

Did the 12 round limit ruin the Heavyweight Division?

Yes, and the entire sport of boxing.

[JC2006]

It would be nice to see title fights go 13 rounds these days at least...

[joeboxer]

I don't think its the 12 round fights. More or less crooked promoters, crooked sanctioning bodies, too many belts, pay per view.
Look there were boring 15 round fights in the past, and there have been great 12 round fights today. Thats not the big issue.

[Guru_Too_You]

it saved lives...15 round fights caused way too much damage with fighters because they no longer were able to protect themselves properly and would take beatings...even fighters who had already well lost the fight would only be there for the surprise KO but even then both fighters took way too much punishment.

There is no empirical data to prove this theory at ALL.

[Guru_Too_You]

Going from 15 to 12 was done in the name of saving lives, which came about after Ray Mancini killed duk-Koo kim. It would be interesting to see if the statistics since the change, would support the reasoning. IMO, it was done more for television formatting, so they could squeeze more commercials into a one hour time slot.

Personally, I prefer 15. They should have went to 13 at least and eliminated an even number of rounds. Boxing is a dangerous game and death can happen long before 12 or 15, and elminating THE CHAMPIONSHIP ROUNDS hasnt done the sport any favors as far as I'm concerned.

Thats what they will tell you it was done for, but in reality it was done so a 12 round bout could be featured on a one hour time slot for television purposes.

There is no data that suggests dropping the rounds actually helped save lives, statistically speaking.

[buddynabuick]

15 round fights sure were more entertaining to watch, as well as being more of a gruelling test of stamina and condition, much more than 12 rounds. Obivously, fewer fights went the distance when fighters had to fight an additional 3 rounds, while exhausted. You had fewer decision endings, which was much better than relying on judge's opinions so much, as we do now.


It was better for the fans and the excitement of the sport, certainly. I wish they'd bring back 15 rounders, but they never will in these safety first times.


if the bleeding hearts (those that desire to control others) were able to have have a fight cut from 15 to 12, the logical course would then be to say that 12 is now to many rounds and we feel (for the safety of the fighters:lol:) we must cut it down to 10...then 8 then they will make fighters wear SOCKER BOPPERS FOR THEIR 4 ROUNDERS. If we let-em control how many rounds we can fight, that then gives them licence to micro manage every aspect of our lives:yep

[Thread Stealer]

Of course not.

Some people would like to go back to 15 rounds. That's fine with me, but fix the weigh-in procedure first. It doesn't affect the HWs, but it does the other divisions.

[Stinky gloves]

12 round saved the boxing, in the other way most of them would be died from exhausting. 15 rounds favor well conditioned and hard chinned boxers. 12 rounds favor boxers and punchers.

In 12 rounds Ali without rope-a-dope farce would be knocked out by Foreman if he try to stand like a man and fight.

[0-1]

12 round saved the boxing, in the other way most of them would be died from exhausting. 15 rounds favor well conditioned and hard chinned boxers. 12 rounds favor boxers and punchers.

In 12 rounds Ali without rope-a-dope farce would be knocked out by Foreman if he try to stand like a man and fight.

I'm not totally clear on what you mean about Ali-Foreman, but I think it's worth pointing out two things: one that Ali's tactics in that fight were both incredibly brave and a work of boxing genius; the second is that Ali knocked out Foreman in the eighth...

[Guru_Too_You]

12 round saved the boxing, in the other way most of them would be died from exhausting. 15 rounds favor well conditioned and hard chinned boxers. 12 rounds favor boxers and punchers.

In 12 rounds Ali without rope-a-dope farce would be knocked out by Foreman if he try to stand like a man and fight.

How is puberty treating you?

[Tencount85]

The 15 rounds certainly settled most disputes, but, it makes it possible for more long term injuries and what not.

[Guru_Too_You]

The 15 rounds certainly settled most disputes, but, it makes it possible for more long term injuries and what not.

Misinformed.

[Bigcat]

The 15 rounds were the ultimate fighting rounds.. Champions only boxed over 15 , It made such epic title fights as Ali v Frazier and Norton v Holmes possible..

It is deemed safer alround now that the set 12 is the way forward.. But the initial reason for 12 was it fitted into an hour TV slot perfectly with the breaks inbetween.

Great fighters like great gladiators loved the 15's, Mike Tyson loved the idea of open rounds like in the days of his hero Jack Dempsey..

Mike appeared in the last ever scheduled 15 round heavyweight championship bout against Tyrell Biggs.. He ended it however in 7....

[Guru_Too_You]

The 15 rounds were the ultimate fighting rounds.. Champions only boxed over 15 , It made such epic title fights as Ali v Frazier and Norton v Holmes possible..

It is deemed safer alround now that the set 12 is the way forward.. But the initial reason for 12 was it fitted into an hour TV slot perfectly with the breaks inbetween.

Great fighters like great gladiators loved the 15's, Mike Tyson loved the idea of open rounds like in the days of his hero Jack Dempsey..

Mike appeared in the last ever scheduled 15 round heavyweight championship bout against Tyrell Biggs.. He ended it however in 7....

:good

It is deemed safer, yet statistical analysis shows that the amount of deaths due to boxing have not dropped significantly enough to credit the 3 round deduction as the source. In fact, most of the evidence points to the de/rehydration process as the true source of boxing deaths, as the brain has less "padding" to absorb punishment.

[C Money]

Thats what they will tell you it was done for, but in reality it was done so a 12 round bout could be featured on a one hour time slot for television purposes.

There is no data that suggests dropping the rounds actually helped save lives, statistically speaking.

I said the TV formatting was more responsible, IMO. ALL about $$$$.

I'm not aware of any studies that have been done since, but I'd bet that the data would be on par with as it was, previously.

[Bigcat]

:good

It is deemed safer, yet statistical analysis shows that the amount of deaths due to boxing have not dropped significantly enough to credit the 3 round deduction as the source. In fact, most of the evidence points to the de/rehydration process as the true source of boxing deaths, as the brain has less "padding" to absorb punishment.

Completely agree..

It was all for TV..

I spoke to Margaret Goodman about that a year or so ago and she was pretty much on my wave length about it..

12 is not at all safer...........:-(

[Stinky gloves]

I'm not totally clear on what you mean about Ali-Foreman, but I think it's worth pointing out two things: one that Ali's tactics in that fight were both incredibly brave and a work of boxing genius; the second is that Ali knocked out Foreman in the eighth...
Yeah but after that he was using rope-a-dope to survive most of the later
fights. If the fights were 15 rounds everybody sooner or later would invent
something to survive first 10-12 rounds and save power to the latest 3.

In 12 rounds boxers come strong from beggining not worrying that they will
lose gas so fights are more interesting and favour fast boxers/punchers.

For people who think Maywether may run out of gas after 12 they may
be fooled, Mayweather absorb small amout of shots and land more than
oponents so 15 rounds would favor him even more than 12.

15 round favour strong well conditioned boxers, Wlad would be totaly
exhausted after 12 if someone would survive to that point.

[Guru_Too_You]

Yeah but after that he was using rope-a-dope to survive most of the later
fights. If the fights were 15 rounds everybody sooner or later would invent
something to survive first 10-12 rounds and save power to the latest 3.

In 12 rounds boxers come strong from beggining not worrying that they will
lose gas so fights are more interesting and favour fast boxers/punchers.

For people who think Maywether may run out of gas after 12 they may
be fooled, Mayweather absorb small amout of shots and land more than
oponents so 15 rounds would favor him even more than 12.

15 round favour strong well conditioned boxers, Wlad would be totatly
exhausted after 12 if someone would survive to that point.

Thank you for separating your 4 OPINIONS SO CLEARLY.

Here is a fact: There is no empirically tested evidence to prove that 12 rounds is safer than 15 rounds.

[Stinky gloves]

Thank you for separating your 4 OPINIONS SO CLEARLY.

Here is a fact: There is no empirically tested evidence to prove that 12 rounds is safer than 15 rounds.
15 rounds are more dangerous. Usually boxers go full pack early, and if they
fail to finish his oponents then they save power in the middle rounds and get
to the point after 12. However after 12 one of them is almost done and if he
get KOed at that point then it may brings more damage than if he get Koed
early by flash knockdown.

Also if you think about the case of Mesi, he could still win with Jirov but
if the fight was over 12 rounds he might be dead next day. He was lucky
fight was only 10 rounds.

[Guru_Too_You]

15 rounds are more dangerous. Usually boxers go full pack early, and if they
fail to finish his oponents then they save power in the middle rounds and get
to the point after 12. However after 12 one of them is almost done and if he
get KOed at that point then it may brings more damage than if he get Koed
early by flash knockdown.

Also if you think about the case of Mesi, he could still win with Jirov but
if the fight was over 12 rounds he might be dead next day. He was lucky
fight was only 10 rounds.

Thanks for more opinions.

[C Money]

15 rounds are more dangerous. Usually boxers go full pack early, and if they
fail to finish his oponents then they save power in the middle rounds and get
to the point after 12. However after 12 one of them is almost done and if he
get KOed at that point then it may brings more damage than if he get Koed
early by flash knockdown.

Also if you think about the case of Mesi, he could still win with Jirov but
if the fight was over 12 rounds he might be dead next day. He was lucky
fight was only 10 rounds.

If he was lucky it was 10 and suffered a subdural hematoma, then 12 could have killed him as well. That pretty much substantiates what i said earlier that bad things can happen long before 12 or 15. It's the reality of the nature of the sport.

There isnt any data to prove that 12 is less dangerous, and it was more about finances than fighter safety, but by using that mantra ,it got the change to happen:good

[Stinky gloves]

One thing is that with the current point system it would be better to have
odd number of rounds. I think 13 would be better, then it would exclude some draw possibilities.

[C Money]

One thing is that with the current point system it would be better to have
odd number of rounds. I think 13 would be better, then it would exclude some draw possibilities.

I said the same thing on page 1 and I bet the majority of people would agree.

The fact that they went to 12, instead of 13, gives credibility to the opinion that it was ALL about TV $$$$ and not fighter safety.

[la-califa]

Maybe going to twelve rounds could have had the opposite effect. By having fighters with eroding skills hanging around longer than they should. Thus making them more likely to have brain damage. Or fighters out of shape try to steal a few rounds & hang all over the opponent until the 12th round bell. James Toney would never have tried the Heavyweight division if he had to go fifteen rounds.

[Bummy Davis]

15 rounds forces a fighter to be in top shape, today heavys are lucky to fight 12, with 3 more rounds to go , you would see better conditioned athletes and better fights,I used to love watching champion fights go 15, the last 5 are championship rounds and the last 3 are where it all hangs out

[eze]

After the 12 round of boxing, thats when the increase for brain damage hugely increases. Thats why they were lowered to 12 rounds.


Badgers a fucking retard for wanting more people toget hurt.

[Rock0052]

Fix weigh ins and make fighters fight in their natural class instead of weight draining, and boxing would immediately become safer.

People also don't point out that refs are far more likely to stop a fight now than they were in the 15 round days. Those 2 elements would make 15 round fights much safer if they took place nowadays. Hell, just save them for superfights if nothing else. Calzaghe-Kessler? Hatton-Mayweather? Hopkins-Wright? I'd like to see all those as "epic" 15 rounders.