Whitaker vs. Robinson P4P

[werety]

I remember a while ago on these threads hearing someone say that Whitaker wouldnt be able to beat Robinson at welterweight but a p4p matchup would be very close. I feel that this is a horrible analysis, oftentimes Whitaker gets favored h2h over pretty much anyone regardless of styles. Whitaker thrived against pressure fighters, but a brilliant boxer puncher like robinson has the perfect style to decision Whitaker. His attacks are simply too fast, well timed, and calculated for Whitaker to give him great trouble. I don't see what Whitaker would be able to do, trying to slip and counter a fighter like Robinson is extremely difficult and he obviously isn't the type of physically strong inside fighter that would give Robinson trouble. Just wondering what your thoughts on this matchup are.

[Robbi]

If both were the same size, Id maybe take Whitaker. It would come down to skill level and probably go the distance. Both very well balanced packages, with Robinson more offensive with Whitaker defensive. If Whitaker did have decent power he wouldn't fight the same way of course, and a southpaw Robinson would be close to what he would be if he carried more pop. Whitaker would certainly be more hittable if he happened to carry more power than he did.

[Minotauro]

Robinson he has more tools to wins and feel he'll catch whitaker late and finish the fight.

[Sweet Pea]

Both the same size, I'd take the LW Whitaker honestly. As they were at WW, I'd take Robinson. This is based on what I've seen of Robinson at MW though, as the footage I've seen at WW is minimal.

I'm prepared to defend this as well.

[dpw417]

Both the same size, I'd take the LW Whitaker honestly. As they were at WW, I'd take Robinson. This is based on what I've seen of Robinson at MW though, as the footage I've seen at WW is minimal.

I'm prepared to defend this as well.
Well first off I want to say I think Pete is #1 lightweight 'head to head'...IMO. It's very close between He and Duran...But I think Whitaker would edge him (barely)He has the correct style to be very problematic for Duran...Pete was just phenomenal, arguebly amongst the top two or three defensive fighters of all time...That is remarkable. Whitaker was a defensive specialist, but he had a mind set that he was the best man in the ring, and that he was the toughest...he was not afraid of anyone.
In Robinson against Whitaker, in a P4P sense, I don't think the dynamic of that is all that different from a real fight between the two actually...I feel that their fight would be decided by skills, not so much the weight difference (I did not say size)...Robinson did not try to impose his strength against opponents...he wasn't that physically powerful. He was strong enough however to fight in the trenches against LaMotta who was a small light heavy (while Ray just weighed 144 lb.)
In an actual fight at welter, I would go with Ray by decision....Pete would last the distance IMO...If contenders like Angott,Fusari, etc went the distance...It is not out of the realm for one of the best practictioners ever in Whitaker to do the same.
In a P4P sense, Whitaker would be a little stronger than normal...and retaining the mercurial speed and reflexes from lightweight, not the slightly slower welterweight version...Whitaker is clearly the better defensive tactician...Whitaker is faster of hand and feet...but keep in mind, Ray is by no means slow, he is extremely fast...Whitaker has that southpaw 'strangeness' going for him as well... :lol: and lastly, Whitaker is tough!
Robinson's main attribute is his firepower, he has a mastery of every punch from both hands, brilliant combination puncher... under and over...and he is a much harder puncher than Whitaker, even in the P4P sense...At 5'11" Ray towers over the 5'6" Sweetpea, this is a critical differential in size for the styles of both fighters, IMO...Whitaker would land his southpaw jab at times, but in this instance, he would have to reach that little extra...when he used the quick left cross, he would have to reach that little extra...Pete likes to fight at a distance, Robinson likes to fight at a distance as well...With his experience Robinson will eventually time Pernell's lunges and dips, and hurt him...Whitaker's power would not get Robinson's respect...Whitaker never faced such a complete offensive package IMO...I think SRR's offense bests Pete's defense...Robinson would turn very aggressive and win the fight, by a decision ...Pernell's moderate advantage in defense, and slight speed advantage do not offset Robinson's pronounced advantage in power, and his very effective deliverance of that power...Just my opinion.

[Sweet Pea]

Well first off I want to say I think Pete is #1 lightweight 'head to head'...IMO. It's very close between He and Duran...But I think Whitaker would edge him (barely)He has the correct style to be very problematic for Duran...Pete was just phenomenal, arguebly amongst the top two or three defensive fighters of all time...That is remarkable. Whitaker was a defensive specialist, but he had a mind set that he was the best man in the ring, and that he was the toughest...he was not afraid of anyone.
In Robinson against Whitaker, in a P4P sense, I don't think the dynamic of that is all that different from a real fight between the two actually...I feel that their fight would be decided by skills, not so much the weight difference (I did not say size)...Robinson did not try to impose his strength against opponents...he wasn't that physically powerful. He was strong enough however to fight in the trenches against LaMotta who was a small light heavy (while Ray just weighed 144 lb.)
In an actual fight at welter, I would go with Ray by decision....Pete would last the distance IMO...If contenders like Angott,Fusari, etc went the distance...It is not out of the realm for one of the best practictioners ever in Whitaker to do the same.
In a P4P sense, Whitaker would be a little stronger than normal...and retaining the mercurial speed and reflexes from lightweight, not the slightly slower welterweight version...Whitaker is clearly the better defensive tactician...Whitaker is faster of hand and feet...but keep in mind, Ray is by no means slow, he is extremely fast...Whitaker has that southpaw 'strangeness' going for him as well... :lol: and lastly, Whitaker is tough!
Robinson's main attribute is his firepower, he has a mastery of every punch from both hands, brilliant combination puncher... under and over...and he is a much harder puncher than Whitaker, even in the P4P sense...At 5'11" Ray towers over the 5'6" Sweetpea, this is a critical differential in size for the styles of both fighters, IMO...Whitaker would land his southpaw jab at times, but in this instance, he would have to reach that little extra...when he used the quick left cross, he would have to reach that little extra...Pete likes to fight at a distance, Robinson likes to fight at a distance as well...With his experience Robinson will eventually time Pernell's lunges and dips, and hurt him...Whitaker's power would not get Robinson's respect...Whitaker never faced such a complete offensive package IMO...I think SRR's offense bests Pete's defense...Robinson would turn very aggressive and win the fight, by a decision ...Pernell's moderate advantage in defense, and slight speed advantage do not offset Robinson's pronounced advantage in power, and his very effective deliverance of that power...Just my opinion.Good post overall. I see Pea reacting a bit different to certain things than you do, and I noticed something as well.

When we're talking both being the same size, if Robinson was shrunken to a natural LW, he would not be quite 5'11. He is the taller, longer guy, but shrunken down to LW he would not be quite 5'11, and were Pea elevated up to natural WW, he would be perhaps a bit taller than 5'6. Either way, yes Robinson is the taller guy, just not quite by the amount you mentioned if things were inflated or deflated.

On to the matchup, and your points about Whitaker having to reach that little bit extra: I don't think it would make much of a difference honestly, as he has fought guys of similar height to Robinson, his jab is as quick as ever against most heights, as was his counter left cross(his best punch other than his jab). So, unless he was facing an evasive taller fighter or one who excelled on the defensive end, I don't see it being much of a problem, and while Robinson had good defense, he was by no means a master in that regard, his claim to fame was his amazing offense, which I will get to next.

Robinson liked to fight at a distance against a guy like LaMotta, otherwise I'd say he was more of a mid-range fighter compared to Whitaker. Mid-range was his range, noone who ever fought was as good as him in that regard I don't think, but as far as in-fighting(while good and pretty underrated despite not having, as you mentioned, great brute strength) and fighting from a distance, he was not quite on the same level. His short, compact punches were perfect for being a mid-range fighter. Against a faster, slick, evasive out fighter with the ultimate range finder(that great jab) I think it would be a bit harder for Robinson to find his range.

You say he wouldn't respect Pea's power, possibly, but that can lead to a fighter looking very bad, when they assume they will just walk over a fighter and come forward, they end up getting the jab put on them and having the ring used against them(especially against someone so good off the backfoot like Pea). I do however, agree that Robinson, who was a master of adapting, would eventually switch tactics and start to time Pea better, which could lead to a KD at some point. But overall, I'd say Whitaker outboxes him for the early portion of the fight, winning most early rounds, and perhaps losing some of the later ones when Robinson starts to adapt better. I usually favor on points the guy who can take the earlier rounds to build up the lead(I had Mayweather rightfully beating Castillo for instance).

However, what I mentioned about Robinson, his adaptability, is one thing that culd lead to him winning a rematch.

And as a sidenote, just as response to a certain point you made, I do believe the difference in their defense is very pronounced.

[dpw417]

Good post overall. I see Pea reacting a bit different to certain things than you do, and I noticed something as well.

When we're talking both being the same size, if Robinson was shrunken to a natural LW, he would not be quite 5'11. He is the taller, longer guy, but shrunken down to LW he would not be quite 5'11, and were Pea elevated up to natural WW, he would be perhaps a bit taller than 5'6. Either way, yes Robinson is the taller guy, just not quite by the amount you mentioned if things were inflated or deflated.

On to the matchup, and your points about Whitaker having to reach that little bit extra: I don't think it would make much of a difference honestly, as he has fought guys of similar height to Robinson, his jab is as quick as ever against most heights, as was his counter left cross(his best punch other than his jab). So, unless he was facing an evasive taller fighter or one who excelled on the defensive end, I don't see it being much of a problem, and while Robinson had good defense, he was by no means a master in that regard, his claim to fame was his amazing offense, which I will get to next.

Robinson liked to fight at a distance against a guy like LaMotta, otherwise I'd say he was more of a mid-range fighter compared to Whitaker. Mid-range was his range, noone who ever fought was as good as him in that regard I don't think, but as far as in-fighting(while good and pretty underrated despite not having, as you mentioned, great brute strength) and fighting from a distance, he was not quite on the same level. His short, compact punches were perfect for being a mid-range fighter. Against a faster, slick, evasive out fighter with the ultimate range finder(that great jab) I think it would be a bit harder for Robinson to find his range.

You say he wouldn't respect Pea's power, possibly, but that can lead to a fighter looking very bad, when they assume they will just walk over a fighter and come forward, they end up getting the jab put on them and having the ring used against them(especially against someone so good off the backfoot like Pea). I do however, agree that Robinson, who was a master of adapting, would eventually switch tactics and start to time Pea better, which could lead to a KD at some point. But overall, I'd say Whitaker outboxes him for the early portion of the fight, winning most early rounds, and perhaps losing some of the later ones when Robinson starts to adapt better. I usually favor on points the guy who can take the earlier rounds to build up the lead(I had Mayweather rightfully beating Castillo for instance).

However, what I mentioned about Robinson, his adaptability, is one thing that culd lead to him winning a rematch.

And as a sidenote, just as response to a certain point you made, I do believe the difference in their defense is very pronounced.
That's fine.
Agree totally on Robinson being a mid range fighter, i was trying to make the point that this fight would at times, be right in his comfort zone.
Very good point on Whitaker boxing well off the back foot, he would make Robinson miss his share of punches that is a certainty! Whitaker's defensive techniques are from a different place only he knows about... I feel Robinson would use his favorite tactic of firing between an opponents combinations in order to find an opening. He would find hitting Whitaker flush extremely, extremely, difficult...But he would take the tactical play away with combinations when Pete touches him. Whitaker is a stylistic nightmare for anybody... but Whitaker is playing with dynamite here...believe it...He will get Whitaker's attention even with grazing shots...Ray's record as a puncher backs this up....I see a flash KD of Whitaker in this...If things aren't going Ray's way, What about Ray's jab and footwork? He is only one of the best of all time...Robinson has a beautiful effortless jab, he could fight this way as well...This would be a very tactical fight, with both guys trying different approaches...I feel you are right about Pea making SRR look wild at times...But he would adapt, problably emphasizing going to the body of Whitaker...Ray would hurt any opponent his own weight badly with his power...He demonstrated this against bigger people...
On the P4P Maybe i'm figuring it wrong, but I thought if they were the same weight class, that was how it was considered...If ray wasn't 5'11" and Pete wasn't 5'6"...It wouldn't be Robinson and Whitaker(?)
Peace.

[Sweet Pea]

That's fine.
Agree totally on Robinson being a mid range fighter, i was trying to make the point that this fight would at times, be right in his comfort zone.
Very good point on Whitaker boxing well off the back foot, he would make Robinson miss his share of punches that is a certainty! Whitaker's defensive techniques are from a different place only he knows about... I feel Robinson would use his favorite tactic of firing between an opponents combinations in order to find an opening. He would find hitting Whitaker flush extremely, extremely, difficult...But he would take the tactical play away with combinations when Pete touches him. Whitaker is a stylistic nightmare for anybody... but Whitaker is playing with dynamite here...believe it...He will get Whitaker's attention even with grazing shots...Ray's record as a puncher backs this up....I see a flash KD of Whitaker in this...If things aren't going Ray's way, What about Ray's jab and footwork? He is only one of the best of all time...Robinson has a beautiful effortless jab, he could fight this way as well...This would be a very tactical fight, with both guys trying different approaches...I feel you are right about Pea making SRR look wild at times...But he would adapt, problably emphasizing going to the body of Whitaker...Ray would hurt any opponent his own weight badly with his power...He demonstrated this against bigger people...
On the P4P Maybe i'm figuring it wrong, but I thought if they were the same weight class, that was how it was considered...If ray wasn't 5'11" and Pete wasn't 5'6"...It wouldn't be Robinson and Whitaker(?)
Peace.That's one of the problems when considering a P4P matchup, you have to deal with things like size and inflation to even things up.

[dpw417]

That's one of the problems when considering a P4P matchup, you have to deal with things like size and inflation to even things up.
Don't talk economics with me...:lol:

[werety]

We do have to take in to acount that shrunk down to lightweight Robinson will still be larger than Whitaker, but Robinson's I think is horrible for Whitaker. Pea you've said it before, Whitaker is great against pressure fighters. Guys like Duran, the guys that often gave Robinson trouble. But I think a boxer-puncher of Robinson's caliber is horrible for Whitaker. You seem to think this would just turn to be a tactical long range battle that Whitaker wins, but the way I see it Robinson uses his IMO superior footwork to keep the fight at mid range. And with his extremely fast, calculated combinations wins the fight. I just think he would be able to eventually time Whitaker's defensive moves. How do you see Whitaker winning the fight? In p4p sense at least I think Robinson is faster than Whitaker. Which makes me think Whitaker would be in serious trouble trying to counter punch him, and even on the outside Whitaker doesn't necessarily have the advantage while Robinson has the clear advantage mid-range. I feel that inside fighting wouldn't really come to play in this fight so I wont analyze that. Overall, I say Whitaker's high workrate, jab, and defense are better suited for a tough pressure fighter like Armstrong than an explosive, fast, accurate, boxer-puncher like Robinson.

[Sweet Pea]

We do have to take in to acount that shrunk down to lightweight Robinson will still be larger than Whitaker, but Robinson's I think is horrible for Whitaker. Pea you've said it before, Whitaker is great against pressure fighters. Guys like Duran, the guys that often gave Robinson trouble. But I think a boxer-puncher of Robinson's caliber is horrible for Whitaker. You seem to think this would just turn to be a tactical long range battle that Whitaker wins, but the way I see it Robinson uses his IMO superior footwork to keep the fight at mid range. And with his extremely fast, calculated combinations wins the fight. I just think he would be able to eventually time Whitaker's defensive moves. How do you see Whitaker winning the fight? In p4p sense at least I think Robinson is faster than Whitaker. Which makes me think Whitaker would be in serious trouble trying to counter punch him, and even on the outside Whitaker doesn't necessarily have the advantage while Robinson has the clear advantage mid-range. I feel that inside fighting wouldn't really come to play in this fight so I wont analyze that. Overall, I say Whitaker's high workrate, jab, and defense are better suited for a tough pressure fighter like Armstrong than an explosive, fast, accurate, boxer-puncher like Robinson.Well we disagree on quite a few things, which is why overall we disagree on the outcome.

First of all, I disagree with Robinson having superior footwork. Whitaker was not a mover in a sense that he did not pop around the ring on his toes like an Ali, Leonard, Robinson(at times) and others, but I have never seen anyone use the ring as good as Whitaker did. His footwork was a lot more subtle.

Second, I agree that Robinson has faster hands and better combos, but overall I don't believe he is a faster fighter, in a sense that Whitaker has better overal body movement, and is at least as quick with single shots, and even moreso with counters. I don't think Whitaker has too much trouble countering Robinson for this reason: Whitaker will be fighting off the backfoot in this fight. If he stands flat-footed, Robinson's combos will be Pea's undoing(as you can't effectively counter combos like that), but off the backfoot, behind a sharp jab, you simply can't throw effective combos against that, especially given Pea's evasive skills.

Also, you say Robinson has the clear advantage at mid-range while Pea doesn't have the clear advantage outside. I already explained this part to dpw417, I don't see how you think this. Robinson was a fighter who employed short, compact punches at preferably mid-range, even his jab was very compact, and thrown lower, which leads me to believe Whitaker clearly holds the edge in the jab department. With the edge in the jab department, I don't see how Robinson wins the outside battle, considering Whitaker will be on the backfoot, using movement, all night.

Overall, if the LW Pea faced Robinson at the same size, inflated or deflated, (as said before, at 147, Robinson wins a clear decision, as Pea would be more flat-footed, which would lead to Robinson throwing his combos more effectively) I think Pea's jab, movement off the backfoot, and evasiveness get the job done, winning him a close decision. Another analysis can be seen in my posts with dpw417.

[werety]

Hmm those are somee pretty good points. Whitaker's ability to fight off the back foot is great and he could sting Robinson with those potent counter lefts, but I just feel that you underestimate Robinson's outside game and more importanly his foot work. Watch Robinson's fight with Maxim, he could throw that jab long and move to win an entire fight rather than the usual short jab you see. More importanly however, you say that Whitaker could move off the back foot jab and counter the whole night, I dont. Robinson's feet would force Whitaker to keep recutting and if he has to do so its almost as bad as having to move straight back. And I think Robinson is adabtable, fas, and accurate enough offensively to eventually time whitaker's ducks and evasive movements.

[sweet_scientist]

In a p4p matchup I see it going like a higher level version of Whitaker-DLH, with the difference being that Robinson will land more of his combo's than DLH was able to. That will be enough to take some close rounds, and give Robinson a 9-6 edge. If they fought often enough, Robinson might catch Whitaker and stop him on the odd occasion too.

Robinson is too offensively gifted to lose this match, though I'd expect Whitaker to look quite spectacular in defeat. He would work his defensive game to its limit.

[Sweet Pea]

Hmm those are somee pretty good points. Whitaker's ability to fight off the back foot is great and he could sting Robinson with those potent counter lefts, but I just feel that you underestimate Robinson's outside game and more importanly his foot work. Watch Robinson's fight with Maxim, he could throw that jab long and move to win an entire fight rather than the usual short jab you see. More importanly however, you say that Whitaker could move off the back foot jab and counter the whole night, I dont. Robinson's feet would force Whitaker to keep recutting and if he has to do so its almost as bad as having to move straight back. And I think Robinson is adabtable, fas, and accurate enough offensively to eventually time whitaker's ducks and evasive movements.

As I said, read my above analysis of how the fight goes overall that I made to dpw417, I believe that Robinson would start ad******g later in the fight and things may start to look better from his end, including what I feel an inevitable flash KD of Whitaker, but that Pea would win the fight on points.

As for the part I have highlighted, moving straight back was Whitaker's strong point, as he threw punches off the backfoot better than anyone I've seen. Whereas a guy like Willie Pep who moved side to side could be caught within a fighters reach and hit more effectively by a great puncher like Robinson(or even a rough houser like Angott), Whitaker's ability to box off the backfoot and punch going backwards is in my opinion much harder to deal with. Which is why I consider Whitaker a better boxer than Willie Pep, and I feel I'm unfairly in the minority in that.

[Sweet Pea]

In a p4p matchup I see it going like a higher level version of Whitaker-DLH, with the difference being that Robinson will land more of his combo's than DLH was able to. That will be enough to take some close rounds, and give Robinson a 9-6 edge. If they fought often enough, Robinson might catch Whitaker and stop him on the odd occasion too.

Robinson is too offensively gifted to lose this match, though I'd expect Whitaker to look quite spectacular in defeat. He would work his defensive game to its limit.Do you believe the prime Whitaker of his lightweight days would fight a defensive fight like the old WW Whitaker did against DLH? Or do you believe that Robinson would force Whitaker to play defensive like DLH did, being that, even though he is facing a better Whitaker, Robinson is just a better offensive fighter than DLH.

My question, I guess is, do you think Whitaker played defensive against DLH because he was past his prime, or because DLH forced him to because of his offense? Obviously he was past it, but do you think Robinson would make even a prime Whitaker do the same, just because his offense was so much better than DLH's?

[werety]

I guess you are right Whitaker does fight very well moving straight back. We both have put forth our points, I think Robinson's formidable outside game which I feel you underrrate and his footwork will be able to cause him to land more than Whitaker, you see otherwise. My question to you is this, with Robinson's adaptability who do you see taking a 5 fight series?

[Sweet Pea]

I guess you are right Whitaker does fight very well moving straight back. We both have put forth our points, I think Robinson's formidable outside game which I feel you underrrate and his footwork will be able to cause him to land more than Whitaker, you see otherwise. My question to you is this, with Robinson's adaptability who do you see taking a 5 fight series?Toughy. I said earlier I feel Robinson may win a rematch, but it takes a genius fighter to be able to constantly beat a style like Whitaker's. Robinson may well have been that. Then again it takes a genius fighter to constantly keep off an offense like Robinson's. Whitaker may well have been that. Just so hard to decide. As you can see I believe we are talking two of the very elites here, in head to head terms, it's these guys and Roy Jones as the superelites. I see it going 3-2 for either, and I'll just leave it at that.

[sweet_scientist]

Do you believe the prime Whitaker of his lightweight days would fight a defensive fight like the old WW Whitaker did against DLH? Or do you believe that Robinson would force Whitaker to play defensive like DLH did, being that, even though he is facing a better Whitaker, Robinson is just a better offensive fighter than DLH.

My question, I guess is, do you think Whitaker played defensive against DLH because he was past his prime, or because DLH forced him to because of his offense? Obviously he was past it, but do you think Robinson would make even a prime Whitaker do the same, just because his offense was so much better than DLH's?
Had Whitaker been younger (say the one who fought McGirt or Chavez) I think he would have been more active against DLH than what he was in their actual fight. That said, it can't all be attributable to Whitaker's age, and some credit needs to go to the sharpness of DLH's offensive attack, which also contributed to Whitaker being cautious. To verify this, we need look no further than Whitaker's fight against Trinidad where he was more offensive than what he was in the DLH fight. Whilst this can be taken as being the result of Whitaker going into that fight with the mentality of taking it to Tito, or not being able to move as much as he did against DLH (which would have contributed to his greater offensive output than in the DLH fight) I think it was also the result of Tito's punches not being as blisteringly sharp as DLH's and that afforded Whitaker the oppurtunity to let his hands go more.

Bringing it back to Pea-Ray: I think a peak prime Whitaker would be more offensive against Robinson than he was against DLH, no question about that. BUT, a peak prime Ray would be offensively much better than the DLH that Pea faced. As such, I see it panning out like DLH-Whitaker but at a much higher level; meaning a more frenetic pace, more puches thrown by both, but with pretty much the same effect. The one difference, other than the pace/activity of the fight will be that Robinson WILL land some of his combos. DLH didn't land a single combo in that fight.

[Sweet Pea]

Had Whitaker been younger (say the one who fought McGirt or Chavez) I think he would have been more active against DLH than what he was in their actual fight. That said, it can't all be attributable to Whitaker's age, and some credit needs to go to the sharpness of DLH's offensive attack, which also contributed to Whitaker being cautious. To verify this, we need look no further than Whitaker's fight against Trinidad where he was more offensive than what he was in the DLH fight. Whilst this can be taken as being the result of Whitaker going into that fight with the mentality of taking it to Tito (which would have contributed to his greater offensive output than in the DLH fight) I think it was also the result of Tito's punches not being as blisteringly sharp as DLH's and that afforded Whitaker the oppurtunity to let his hands go more.You think so? I believe Whitaker went into the Tito fight with that mindset and fight plan because he simply couldn't do what he used to. He was fully shot in that fight. He didn't have near the reflexes of even the DLH fight, and was eating Tito jabs and straight rights all night long(despite ducking and weaving much faster punches from Oscar) because of it. To me, he was just letting it all hang out in that fight, as it was all he could really offer.

I see it panning out like DLH-Whitaker but at a much higher level; meaning a more frenetic pace, more puches thrown by both, but with pretty much the same effect.Does that not give you goosebumps just thinking about?

[werety]

Who did you think won the Whitaker De La Hoya fight?

[sweet_scientist]

You think so? I believe Whitaker went into the Tito fight with that mindset and fight plan because he simply couldn't do what he used to. He was fully shot in that fight. He didn't have near the reflexes of even the DLH fight, and was eating Tito jabs and straight rights all night long(despite ducking and weaving much faster punches from Oscar) because of it. To me, he was just letting it all hang out in that fight, as it was all he could really offer.
Yeah good point, that might have also contributed. I actually added that in to my post (after you read it). If you go back and read my post now you'll see the inclusion of that possibility.

Does that not give you goosebumps just thinking about?
It does. To be honest, I don't think anyone came near to pushing Whitaker to his limit at lightweight and that's a shame. Put up against a Robinson who would stretch him to the limit, I think we would have seen some INCREDIBLE moves and it would likely be considered one of the greatest bouts, from a stylistic standpoint, ever encountered in the history of the sport.

[sweet_scientist]

Who did you think won the Whitaker De La Hoya fight?

I had Whitaker by a point but really there was no clear winner.

[Sweet Pea]

Who did you think won the Whitaker De La Hoya fight?Whitaker by 2 points.

[sweet_scientist]

Whitaker by 2 points.
Just out of interest, do you have a scorecard for it?

Here's mine: 114-113 Whitaker

DLH winning rounds 2,3,4,8 and 12.
Whitaker winning rounds 1,5,6,9,10 and 11.
Round 7 being even.

I think the questionable rounds are the 4th, 7th and 10th. Oscar arguably wins all these, thus giving him a victory by a couple of points.

I have seen some people give Oscar the 6th round but I don't think he did enough there to make a decent argument for giving him the round.

[brownpimp88]

i thought de la hoya landed the more cleaner blows and im a whitaker nuthugger. A 94 whitaker would have schooled oscar and tito, so i really dont care about this fight anyways.

[Sweet Pea]

Just out of interest, do you have a scorecard for it?

Here's mine: 114-113 Whitaker

DLH winning rounds 2,3,4,8 and 12.
Whitaker winning rounds 1,5,6,9,10 and 11.
Round 7 being even.

I think the questionable rounds are the 4th, 7th and 10. Oscar arguably wins all these, thus giving him a victory by a couple of points.

I have seen some people give Oscar the 6th round but I don't think he did enough there to make a decent argument for giving him the round.I don't have a scorecard. In fact, I rarely do. Often times I see people with full scorecards of each round of these fights, and I just don't do it that way. I probably should, to have a better argument in case I need it. I scored the bout for Whitaker by two points, though it's been a while since I've seen it.

[Sweet Pea]

i thought de la hoya landed the more cleaner blows and im a whitaker nuthugger. A 94 whitaker would have schooled oscar and tito, so i really dont care about this fight anyways.HAH! I remember arguing with you a while back about how a prime Whitaker does against Tito, and you said Tito would win. Admit it, I changed your mind.:D

I personally believe, regarding the DLH/Whitaker fight, that Pea controlled the pace of the fight, and didn't allow DLH to get his game going, all the while controilling the fight and keeping it at his pace, especially with the jab.

[werety]

So most of you guys are saying that at least in a series Whitaker Robinson is just too close to call?

[Sweet Pea]

So most of you guys are saying that at least in a series Whitaker Robinson is just too close to call?I am saying that, at least in a P4P matchup, not too sure about everyone else.

[werety]

Fair enough, good points from you Sweet Pea, Im going to go now, just go the new Lupe Fiasco CD.

[Sweet Pea]

Fair enough, good points from you Sweet Pea, Im going to go now, just go the new Lupe Fiasco CD.I am jealous. I will be getting it soon though, that and 8 Diagrams.

[werety]

Hah I knew you liked rap from that immortal technique quote you had in your profile.

[dpw417]

Good stuff guys...Real good. this has been a good thread....

[teeto]

I remember a while ago on these threads hearing someone say that Whitaker wouldnt be able to beat Robinson at welterweight but a p4p matchup would be very close. I feel that this is a horrible analysis, oftentimes Whitaker gets favored h2h over pretty much anyone regardless of styles. Whitaker thrived against pressure fighters, but a brilliant boxer puncher like robinson has the perfect style to decision Whitaker. His attacks are simply too fast, well timed, and calculated for Whitaker to give him great trouble. I don't see what Whitaker would be able to do, trying to slip and counter a fighter like Robinson is extremely difficult and he obviously isn't the type of physically strong inside fighter that would give Robinson trouble. Just wondering what your thoughts on this matchup are.
Your totaly right in my opinion . This is my argument whenever a debate pops up about Robinson vs. any great defensive-minded fighter .

Have you been reading one of my posts ? !! Just kidding , Totaly right though