Say Calzaghe beats Hopkins and retires:-

[brown bomber]

Where does that leave him in terms of ATG both in the UK and internationally? Would anyone else like to see him do more with his career before he bows out? Personally I think that he would have fulfilled and surpassed any reasonable expectation for his career. Beating Hopkins would make him number 2 in the UK of all time behind only Lennox Lewis.

[Betty Swollocks]

well I guess he would go down as an ATG, unbeaten. His best wins would be over a faded and weight-drained Eubank, by now exposed Lacy, Kessler (best win but we still don't know his exact level), and old and overrated Hopkins.

If all the ATG fighters were thrown in a barrel you would find Calzaghe as you were scraping the dregs from the bottom of that barrel.
does that sound unfair?

[kurt2006]

Funny how before Calzaghe took him to school most people thought Lacy was the dogs bollacks.

Calzaghe destroys Lacys confidence and now peopel claim he was over-rated. Truth is Calzaghe put on an epic performace to totally dismantle Lacy, he did similar with Kessler and no doubt he will make Hopkins look like a little kid.

Hopkins is nothing special... oh sorry he is special, he can bore you within the first 2 rounds with his shit style.

[achillesthegreat]

If he beats X he goes down as one of the greatest fighters ever. The maths is easy. He beats a top 5 middleweight, he himself is the best super middleweight ever, he is the man in two divisions, he is undefeated and then you can throw spice in with numerous belts, defences, longevity etc

Calzaghe is the best super middleweight ever. His legacy is set. Only losing at 168 could affect him now. Beating X would be big.

Personally I'd like to see him go to 175 and beat X, then have a going away party against Woods. That would give his 175 career some depth.

[kurt2006]

I hope they keep Woods out of it. That fight would do nothing in terms of legacy, the only thing it would do is give woods a decent payday.

Woods is not a big draw. I would rather see JC fight a shot Roy Jones than Woods.

[jc]

About as ATG as say, Ricardo Lopez, maybe a bit more.

JC has ew fights left in the locker if u ask me, hopefully he can get them i think he needs Hopkins and someone else, Taylor or Pavlik i reckon.

[rooq]

coming from a different angle, i think where joe stands historically could be impacted by how well kessler does going forward. if kessler fights another 5 years or so and completely dominates at smw and lhw, then joe's win will be seen in an even better light.

right now though, a win against bhop followed by retirement will leave joe as one of the top 2 british boxers in my lifetime. fighting on to beat 2 or 3 more world level fighters like dawson / pavlik / taylor / winky, would put him at number 1.

[Smazz20]

Hopkins and Dawson/Woods. Especially if Dawson was to beat Diaconu and/or Erdei in between.

Woods is a good bloke and deserves a decent payday. I'd much rather he got one against JC than Froch.

[Bodysnatcher]

Calzaghe is an ATG by any standard.

But I'd like to see him win over the detractors in America by winning a few times over there, maybe taking on and beating the winner of Pavlik and Taylor after he beats Hopkins (a defeat to whom would leave Joe's legacy in ruins, unlikely as it is.)

[chesh]

If he beats X he goes down as one of the greatest fighters ever. The maths is easy. He beats a top 5 middleweight, he himself is the best super middleweight ever, he is the man in two divisions, he is undefeated and then you can throw spice in with numerous belts, defences, longevity etc

Calzaghe is the best super middleweight ever. His legacy is set. Only losing at 168 could affect him now. Beating X would be big.

Personally I'd like to see him go to 175 and beat X, then have a going away party against Woods. That would give his 175 career some depth.

That sounds about right to me.

[SevenSamurai]

He will go down as the greatest SMW ever, with only Roy beating him in h2h.

His legacy depends alot on how well Kessler's career goes. He spent too long fighting in Wales against mandatories for me. He should have been braver and fought the top contenders abroad earlier in his career.
He only realised this after the Bika fight.

[brown bomber]

Hopkins is nothing special... oh sorry he is special, he can bore you within the first 2 rounds with his shit style. Is that Hopkins' inabilty to excite or your inability to appreciate the finer aspects of boxing. Hopkins-Tarver was a technical masterclass, Hopkins - Trinidad wasn't far off either.

[achillesthegreat]

He will go down as the greatest SMW ever, with only Roy beating him in h2h.

His legacy depends alot on how well Kessler's career goes. He spent too long fighting in Wales against mandatories for me. He should have been braver and fought the top contenders abroad earlier in his career.
He only realised this after the Bika fight.
I'm not sure that is true. He has fought mandatories in Denmark and Germany.

Joe just never got the people interested so they paid no attention.

Thanks to Joe being as good as he is, he has forced people to take notice, plus ****** has put in some good work to get him noticed.

[LeedsLad]

well I guess he would go down as an ATG, unbeaten. His best wins would be over a faded and weight-drained Eubank, by now exposed Lacy, Kessler (best win but we still don't know his exact level), and old and overrated Hopkins.

If all the ATG fighters were thrown in a barrel you would find Calzaghe as you were scraping the dregs from the bottom of that barrel.
does that sound unfair?

That will be how he is remembered, but i think he'll also be remembered as an extremely talented fighter that never quite lived upto his potential.

[steelem]

Ive heard the fight is in jeopardy - F.W has been turned down twice now & i believe they may be looking for a new challenger ... hopkins running scared again!

[chesh]

Ive heard the fight is in jeopardy - F.W has been turned down twice now & i believe they may be looking for a new challenger ... hopkins running scared again!

Who would actually be promoting the fight and who's offering what to whom? You say FW's been turned down, but I thought it was Golden Boy who were making the offers??

[steelem]

Who would actually be promoting the fight and who's offering what to whom? You say FW's been turned down, but I thought it was Golden Boy who were making the offers??

NO your wrong - you think calzaghe will turn his back on FW !

[chesh]

NO your wrong - you think calzaghe will turn his back on FW !

I didn't mean that. My understanding was that FW was negotiating on Joe's behalf for a fight that would be a Golden Boy or Golden Boy/SN co-promotion. I didn't for one moment think JC was turning his back on FW. I was just confused by your claim that B-Hop was turning down FW, when the reality is that Golden Boy are the ones making the offers to FW/SN and JC.

[sean]

i agree with jeff thomas.

2/ behind lewis on at lists.

i know people bring up wilde etc etc, but IMO those were days when boxing was not a world sport, with just a few countrys boxers getting title shots and it also helped what colour and nationality you were as well.

to use an anology.

lasse viren was the dominating athlete of the 50`s winning 5000/10000/marathon olympic titles .

but if kenyans or ethiopians who would have still run the 10 miles to school and work there and back everyday could have been picked and could afford to enter he would have trouble counting using his fingers the number of times they lapped him.

as to ATG status, that grows out of all proportion the longer time goes on and if calzaghe retires with an 0 it will spiral in 20 years time.

i can remember many fighters i watched in the 70`s and early 80`s with loads of flaws and off days all forgotton now and are brought up to beat him/him/him today in debates.

personally i wished they had thrown money at ottke to get that fight, as to calzaghe going to america, simply put america from 97 to lacy had absolutly nothing to offer in way of fighters at 168.

to put it in context one of the very top americans during that period was antwun echols an exciting puncher who refused to fight on american tv bill when they wanted to cut his purse from £16k for a fight as they could not afford to pay him that fee.

huge exposure and money in america is a myth unless you are already a superstar and fighting another superstar and clazaghe was never in that position.

[ravi B]

i will be really pissed if the hopkins fight doesnt happen after all the talk about it

[steelem]

If it does calzaghe is gonna be going to the states - Fw has been turned down on the fight happening in the uk..

[chesh]

If it does calzaghe is gonna be going to the states - Fw has been turned down on the fight happening in the uk..

B-Hop won't travel and Joe wants a fight in the States before his career's over, so, if it's to happen, that's where it will be.

[steelem]

B-Hop won't travel and Joe wants a fight in the States before his career's over, so, if it's to happen, that's where it will be.

yep - but you know FW will lose out doing it that way - thats why his been trying to get it here ! lets just hope its made & filthy hopkins doesnt do the shit he did with wright

[LeadLeftHook]

If Clazaghe beats Hopkins and retires. I will say he beat an old man who was a shell of himself. Calzaghe always looked for and fought weak opposition.
Hopkins is 43 and this fought would have more meaning 5+ years ago. But back then Calzaghe didnt want any part of Hopkins or Roy Jones.

[Words]

He should fight Clinton Woods. Put it on the same card as Haye - Macarinelli and get it on! Fight Hopkins November 2008.

[ashley]

I rate wins over Kessler and Lacy very highly.

I think if he beats BH then RJJ then winner of Taylor VS Pavlik he must go down as the ATGreatest Brit.

Lots of talk about Joe and RJJ but he needs to beat Pavlik in his prime to get the Best tag.

At the moment he is number 2 P4P and needs Mayweather to retire before he gets the number 1 spot in the world.

Joe is one of the ATG now in my book if he retires after the BH fight with a sound win.

[teke]

He should fight Clinton Woods. Put it on the same card as Haye - Macarinelli and get it on! Fight Hopkins November 2008.Sounds good to me.

[PrideOfWales]

well I guess he would go down as an ATG, unbeaten. His best wins would be over a faded and weight-drained Eubank, by now exposed Lacy, Kessler (best win but we still don't know his exact level), and old and overrated Hopkins.

If all the ATG fighters were thrown in a barrel you would find Calzaghe as you were scraping the dregs from the bottom of that barrel.
does that sound unfair?

This is fair. There will always be the "what if..." questions. Ironically, Joe will suffer because he will not have been beaten.

[GOTTIcsc]

Where does that leave him in terms of ATG both in the UK and internationally? Would anyone else like to see him do more with his career before he bows out? Personally I think that he would have fulfilled and surpassed any reasonable expectation for his career. Beating Hopkins would make him number 2 in the UK of all time behind only Lennox Lewis.


To be an ATG he has to have done it Internationally.

He has and he is undefeated.


Personnally if he beats Bernard he goes above LL for me.

LL dropped stupid fights against McCall and Rahman and i think he got beat in the first fight with Evander but it got called a draw.

[LiamE]

LL dropped stupid fights against McCall and Rahman and i think he got beat in the first fight with Evander but it got called a draw.

What the fuck? You think Lewis lost the first fight with Holyfield? Bullshit. That is the most one sided draw I've ever seen. Look at the punch stats for fuck sake, Lewis threw twice as many punches and landed 3 times as many as Holyfield.

There's another thread kicking around about why won't British boxers fight in America, and bullshit judging like there was that night is one big reason.

[steelem]

What the fuck? You think Lewis lost the first fight with Holyfield? Bullshit. That is the most one sided draw I've ever seen. Look at the punch stats for fuck sake, Lewis threw twice as many punches and landed 3 times as many as Holyfield.

There's another thread kicking around about why won't British boxers fight in America, and bullshit judging like there was that night is one big reason.

i remember that fight & ll was robbed

[achillesthegreat]

i think he got beat in the first fight with Evander but it got called a draw.
That is some senseless BS.

[Max Molyneux]

Top 2 British all time great.