Khan v Limond

[Tony Harrison]

I do not know much about Willie Limond, will he provide the first stern test for Amir Khan?

If Khan wins convincingly will he have answered any critics, likewise does anyone fancy Limond to win?

[valdez]

Easily Khan's biggest test since Kindelan.. he's fought pretty much bums until now..

[hopkinsfan07]

i dont think Limon will offer Khan a big problem i predict a late tko 8th or 9th round

[stake501]

another question? who in the lightweight division at present is a harder test than Kindelan

[achillesthegreat]

another question? who in the lightweight division at present is a harder test than Kindelan
We aren't talking about the same division that has Casamayor and Diaz!

[dwilson]

another question? who in the lightweight division at present is a harder test than Kindelan


:huh :huh :huh :huh Baz Carey?

[stake501]

We aren't talking about the same division that has Casamayor and Diaz!

casamayor couldnt hold kindelans jockstrap.. :rofl and i love el Cepillo ... if i remember they used to train a lot together, and casamayor could not touch Kindelan even though Joel was a featherweight

diaz...baby bull.... i like :happy but not in kindelan's class.

[achillesthegreat]

casamayor couldnt hold kindelans jockstrap.. :rofl and i love el Cepillo ... if i remember they used to train a lot together, and casamayor could not touch Kindelan even though Joel was a featherweight

diaz...baby bull.... i like :happy but not in kindelan's class.
If he can hang with Castillo, Freitas and Corrales then Kindelan is getting tamed.

Diaz would war with Kindelan and it looks like Diaz would be all over him for 12 rounds.

[stake501]

If he can hang with Castillo, Freitas and Corrales then Kindelan is getting tamed.

Diaz would war with Kindelan and it looks like Diaz would be all over him for 12 rounds.

Thats my point if El Capillo (a good cuban boxer) can hang with Chico, Popo and JLC, then a ATG cuban boxer like Mario would tear them and Casamayor a new asshole. Kindelan is quicker, hits harder, and doesnt get hit.

How do you war with one of the best defences i've ever seen in boxing...He doesn't get involved in wars.

I give Diaz a chance but in all likelyhood Kindelan will just be too elusive.

There is no lightweight from the last 15 years pro or amateur who is skilled as Kindelan. The Kindelan who faced Khan was a shadow of himself, and I include the olympic final he won so easily. That is why Khan will have to wait a while til he fights someone on his level. Although the transition from am to pro does make a difference, but not in skill levels.

[achillesthegreat]

Thats my point if El Capillo (a good cuban boxer) can hang with Chico, Popo and JLC, then a ATG cuban boxer like Mario would tear them and Casamayor a new asshole. Kindelan is quicker, hits harder, and doesnt get hit.

How do you war with one of the best defences i've ever seen in boxing...He doesn't get involved in wars.

I give Diaz a chance but in all likelyhood Kindelan will just be too elusive.

There is no lightweight from the last 15 years pro or amateur who is skilled as Kindelan. The Kindelan who faced Khan was a shadow of himself, and I include the olympic final he won so easily. That is why Khan will have to wait a while til he fights someone on his level. Although the transition from am to pro does make a difference, but not in skill levels.
They are all P4P and/or great fighters. Kindelan is an amateur. I'd hate to see how he'd hold up with Corrales, Freitas and Castillo coming for him. Kindelan is talented but the pros is a different ball game.

By the way I just realised we are talking about Mario Kindelan. For some reason up until now I thought we were talking about the Aussie who won the WBO title. His name escapes me.

Nevertheless, Kindelan is very talented and skilled but don't even think about him in the pros. The pros is a different ball game. Does he have the chin, the heart, can he go 12, can he take the body attack, does he have the mental smarts etc

[Top Dog]

another question? who in the lightweight division at present is a harder test than Kindelan

Get a grip mate:lol: Unless I'm horribly mistaken Kindelan was an amateur:nut Pro and amateur are two different entities all together. Dont get me wrong Kindelan was an incredibly talented guy but wouldnt have done feck all in the pros

[brown bomber]

Get a grip mate:lol: Unless I'm horribly mistaken Kindelan was an amateur:nut Pro and amateur are two different entities all together. Dont get me wrong Kindelan was an incredibly talented guy but wouldnt have done feck all in the pros Don't be silly he would have been a world champion at the very least.

[stake501]

I am not talking about a good amateur....I am talking about an ATG one.

If Casamayor has made it, and Solis, and Khan do make it. Kindelan would be world champion easy. He beat Tito and schooled Cotto and Khan.

His footwork was excellent, his chin rock solid, the only thing that would have to improve is head movement.

Generally, good amatuers become good pros....great amateurs become great pros.

Sugar Ray Robinson 85 wins 0 losses 100%
Oscar De La Hoya 223 wins 5 losses 97.8%
Nigel Benn 41 wins 1 loss 97.6%
Oliver Mccall 31 wins 1 loss 96.9%
Sugar Ray Leonard 145 wins 5 losses 96.6%
Cory Spinks 78 wins 3 losses 96.3%
Dick Mctaggart 610 wins 24 losses 96.2%
Leon Spinks 178 wins 7 losses 96.2%
Mike McCallum 240 wins 10 losses 96%
Kostya Tszyu 270 wins 12 losses 95.7%
Zab Judah 110 wins 5 losses 95.7%
Juan Diaz 105 wins 5 losses 95.5%
Shane Mosley 230 wins 12 losses 95%
Ricky Hatton 76 wins 4 losses 95%
Marco Antonio Barrera 45 wins 3 losses 93.8%
Mario Kindelan 290 wins 20 losses 93.5%
Pernell Whitaker 201 wins 14 losses 93.5%
Tommy Hearns 115 wins 8 losses 93.5%
Floyd Mayweather Jr 84 wins 6 losses 93.3%
'Winky' Wright 56 wins 4 losses 93.3%
Julio Caesar Chavez 14 wins 1 loss 93.3%
Michael Spinks 93 wins 7 losses 93%
Naseem Hamed 62 wins 5 losses 92.5%
Ken Norton 24 wins 2 losses 92.3%
Floyd Patterson 40 wins 4 losses 90.9%
Roy Jones Jr 121 wins 13 losses 90.3%
Allan Green 55 wins 6 losses 90.1%
Lennox Lewis 94 wins 11 losses 89.5%
Felix Trinidad 51 wins 6 losses 89.5%
Mike Tyson 48 wins 6 losses 88.9%
Jean-Marc Mormeck 13 wins 2 losses 86.7%
Ingemar Johansson 61 wins 10 losses 85.9%
George Foreman 22 wins 4 losses 84.6%
Rocky Marciano 9 wins 3 losses 75% (reported 30 undefeated bouts in US Army making 92.9%)

[achillesthegreat]

Odds on Kindelan would have been something special but there is a distinct difference between pros and amateurs.

Kindelan was very special. He was like a pro condensed into four rounds. Often a slow first round to figure you out and gauge what you had. Then it was all down hill after that as he picked you apart.

Even when he won by a point, it's not because his opponent was that good, its because he did not need to step it up another notch. He had that other gear in reserve.

What Khan did was amazing. People have forgotten how sensational Khan was as an amateur. 17yr old silver medalist, beat the best P4P amateur in the world and his moves spoke for themself.

[AllyT]

I am not talking about a good amateur....I am talking about an ATG one.

If Casamayor has made it, and Solis, and Khan do make it. Kindelan would be world champion easy. He beat Tito and schooled Cotto and Khan.

His footwork was excellent, his chin rock solid, the only thing that would have to improve is head movement.

Generally, good amatuers become good pros....great amateurs become great pros.

Sugar Ray Robinson 85 wins 0 losses 100%
Oscar De La Hoya 223 wins 5 losses 97.8%
Nigel Benn 41 wins 1 loss 97.6%
Oliver Mccall 31 wins 1 loss 96.9%
Sugar Ray Leonard 145 wins 5 losses 96.6%
Cory Spinks 78 wins 3 losses 96.3%
Dick Mctaggart 610 wins 24 losses 96.2%
Leon Spinks 178 wins 7 losses 96.2%
Mike McCallum 240 wins 10 losses 96%
Kostya Tszyu 270 wins 12 losses 95.7%
Zab Judah 110 wins 5 losses 95.7%
Juan Diaz 105 wins 5 losses 95.5%
Shane Mosley 230 wins 12 losses 95%
Ricky Hatton 76 wins 4 losses 95%
Marco Antonio Barrera 45 wins 3 losses 93.8%
Mario Kindelan 290 wins 20 losses 93.5%
Pernell Whitaker 201 wins 14 losses 93.5%
Tommy Hearns 115 wins 8 losses 93.5%
Floyd Mayweather Jr 84 wins 6 losses 93.3%
'Winky' Wright 56 wins 4 losses 93.3%
Julio Caesar Chavez 14 wins 1 loss 93.3%
Michael Spinks 93 wins 7 losses 93%
Naseem Hamed 62 wins 5 losses 92.5%
Ken Norton 24 wins 2 losses 92.3%
Floyd Patterson 40 wins 4 losses 90.9%
Roy Jones Jr 121 wins 13 losses 90.3%
Allan Green 55 wins 6 losses 90.1%
Lennox Lewis 94 wins 11 losses 89.5%
Felix Trinidad 51 wins 6 losses 89.5%
Mike Tyson 48 wins 6 losses 88.9%
Jean-Marc Mormeck 13 wins 2 losses 86.7%
Ingemar Johansson 61 wins 10 losses 85.9%
George Foreman 22 wins 4 losses 84.6%
Rocky Marciano 9 wins 3 losses 75% (reported 30 undefeated bouts in US Army making 92.9%)


Three things you should never believe;

Anyone selling magic beans, Tony Blair and an Amateur Boxing Record

[stake501]

Three things you should never believe;

Anyone selling magic beans, Tony Blair and an Amateur Boxing Record

Wow....and the other day I almost bought some magic beans from Tony that would have made me an undefeated amateur :yep

Nice one Ally T.

I know there are exceptions, but generally most of the good pros have excellent amateur records as well. Of course having a good amateur record is no guarantee of becoming a successful pro, but before pro boxing was banned in Cuba, there were plenty of qulality performers

Kid Gavilán, Niño Valdés, Luis Manuel Rodríguez, Benny Paret, José Legra, Mantequilla Nápoles, Douglas Valliant, Florentino Fernández, Ángel Robinson García, Chico Veliz, etc.....

whos to say that legacy would not have continued. I 'd confidently say Guillermo Rigondeaux would beat any world champion up to Featherweight including Marquez with 10-12 pro fight experience. Him with 8oz gloves is truly frightening.

There is nothing to convince me that Khan will have to fight anyone more skilled than Super Mario. Yes he will have tougher fights in terms of harder punchers, fitter athletes, dirtier fighters, but i dont think he will have to face anyone with as much boxing skill.

[Top Dog]

Don't be silly he would have been a world champion at the very least.

I do hope your being sarcastic Jeff?

[brown bomber]

I do hope your being sarcastic Jeff? Not at all, the guy was a beautiful boxer. I look at amateur boxing like school, your learning the fundamentals of the sport. Your learning how to cope with the occasion. A good amateur will have good fundamentals. A guy with good fundamentals will be a good fighter and Kindelan would have graduated from amateur boxing with A*'s, Hons, Diplomas coming out of ears.

Kindelan would have been a tremeandous fighter- I know amateurs who outbox the pro's in the gyms where i've trained all the time.

[TBooze]

Easily Khan's biggest test since Kindelan.. he's fought pretty much bums until now..

No; Khan has been learning his trade on national TV, there has been nothing wrong with his opposition so far. The only criticism I would level at him and his management is he does not fight often enough, but seems the way now a days :?

As for the Limond fight; it is a fair test, and I think he will take Amir the distance, as I suspect Amir does not have too much of a punch to go with his excellent boxing talent.

Khan WU12 (12-0 or maybe 11-1)

[pinpointzero]

Yo AllyT.
Great argument.
Cotto was a kid at the time, Tito win far more valid! Khan was also a kid.
But your argument stands. He'd have been a great.

[AllyT]

Wow....and the other day I almost bought some magic beans from Tony that would have made me an undefeated amateur :yep

Nice one Ally T.

I know there are exceptions, but generally most of the good pros have excellent amateur records as well. Of course having a good amateur record is no guarantee of becoming a successful pro, but before pro boxing was banned in Cuba, there were plenty of qulality performers

Kid Gavilán, Niño Valdés, Luis Manuel Rodríguez, Benny Paret, José Legra, Mantequilla Nápoles, Douglas Valliant, Florentino Fernández, Ángel Robinson García, Chico Veliz, etc.....

whos to say that legacy would not have continued. I 'd confidently say Guillermo Rigondeaux would beat any world champion up to Featherweight including Marquez with 10-12 pro fight experience. Him with 8oz gloves is truly frightening.

There is nothing to convince me that Khan will have to fight anyone more skilled than Super Mario. Yes he will have tougher fights in terms of harder punchers, fitter athletes, dirtier fighters, but i dont think he will have to face anyone with as much boxing skill.

Agreed, most pro boxers who are successful have had outstanding amateur records. I also know the records are often incomplete. I also reckon that things have changed as the pro and amateur codes have diverged. Amateur is all about point scoring and is now more like fencing with lateral movement. In days gone by boxers who were less robust were found out as amateurs. This no longer happens. For me the danger for Khan is not from a skillful boxer as I believe Khan to be a very skillfull young man. Where he is untested is "in the trenches". If Khan is to be beaten I think it will be a pressure fighter that does it. Limmond is a tough wee man and this will be an interesting test as although Khan will dominate, especially early on, Limmond will catch him at some point and then we will have a better idea about his long term plans.

[pinpointzero]

Again AllyT, good point.
What will Amir be like be he's under pressure, on the back foot. We know he can move, box, and punch. What happens in rounds 7-10, followed by the championship rounds when he's thrown everything and can't get an opponent out?
I really think he'll fare well.
There are a number of scenarios to play out here.
If he can out box Willie (possibility if not a given) then he'll be happy to tuck rounds under his pro belt and take a decision, of that I'm convinced. The crowd might not like it (most Khan fans from TV coverage appear to be band-wagoners or casual) but that's just tough.
If Limond can take Khan to the later rounds (potential of slow-down, punch-out, etc.) then he's a great chance.
If he can catch Khan early (he's not a devastating puncher - but will have enough arsenal to hurt Khan if he can catch him cold enough) then he'll keep Khan away I would guess.
If he can out box Khan for 2-3 rounds then this would be really interesting as we know Khan is come forward, likes to throw punches and is generally a ring aggressor. This scenario might be the most interesting.
I can't wait.

[stake501]

Again AllyT, good point.
What will Amir be like be he's under pressure, on the back foot. We know he can move, box, and punch. What happens in rounds 7-10, followed by the championship rounds when he's thrown everything and can't get an opponent out?
I really think he'll fare well.
There are a number of scenarios to play out here.
If he can out box Willie (possibility if not a given) then he'll be happy to tuck rounds under his pro belt and take a decision, of that I'm convinced. The crowd might not like it (most Khan fans from TV coverage appear to be band-wagoners or casual) but that's just tough.
If Limond can take Khan to the later rounds (potential of slow-down, punch-out, etc.) then he's a great chance.
If he can catch Khan early (he's not a devastating puncher - but will have enough arsenal to hurt Khan if he can catch him cold enough) then he'll keep Khan away I would guess.
If he can out box Khan for 2-3 rounds then this would be really interesting as we know Khan is come forward, likes to throw punches and is generally a ring aggressor. This scenario might be the most interesting.
I can't wait.

Agree with most of your points....I think limond is a tough cookie and Khan will win a UD. But it would be crazy to expect him to win all 12 rounds. Isn't this his first 12 rounder.

I do disagree though with your assessment of Khan as a come forward aggressive fighter. I dont think he is. we may have seen that against the lesser lights of the british division, but I think Khan is really a counter puncher. He likes his opponent to come at him, so he can use his fast hands and feet to hit and get away.

the problem is (and I'm not sure what Limonds startegy will be) most of the guys he fought have not come at him and actually been quite defensive, so he has to press the fight which is alien to his natural tactics, although obviously good for preparing him for different sytles.