why did Duran never fight...

[masterorder19]

Aaron Pryor
Alexus Arguello
Carlos Ortiz
Duilio Loi

How do u think Duran would've done against these fighters..I am a huge Duran fan top ten..But he did lose to his biggest competition..Lost 2-3 to leanord,got owned by Hearns..Got outclassed by Benitez and had a great but came short performance against Hagler..

he loses a UD TO PRYOR
he loses a UD TO LOI
pick'em against Arguello even though i would honestly lean a lil bit towards Arguello..

I would favor him against Ortiz only because Ortiz at the time was a fading fighter..but prime4prime it's a pick'em

what do u guys think??

[TBooze]

Aaron Pryor
Alexus Arguello
Carlos Ortiz
Duilio Loi


He was that bit to heavy to fight Pryor.

Arguello/Duran was set in 1978, then Alexis goes a blow a non-title fight to Vilomar Fernandez.

Ortiz retired in 1972 after losing to Duran victim Buchanan

Loi retired in 1962

[My dinner with Conteh]

Aaron Pryor
Alexus Arguello
Carlos Ortiz
Duilio Loi

How do u think Duran would've done against these fighters..I am a huge Duran fan top ten..But he did lose to his biggest competition..Lost 2-3 to leanord,got owned by Hearns..Got outclassed by Benitez and had a great but came short performance against Hagler..

he loses a UD TO PRYOR
he loses a UD TO LOI
pick'em against Arguello even though i would honestly lean a lil bit towards Arguello..

I would favor him against Ortiz only because Ortiz at the time was a fading fighter..but prime4prime it's a pick'em

what do u guys think??



A huge Duran fan? You don't sound like one. It's nice to see some objectivity (which there seldom is with many on here) but saying stuff like he'd beat Ortiz "only because Ortiz was faded" then saying "He was owned by Hearns and outclassed by Benitez" when Roberto was way past his best- and way above his best weight. :huh

[masterorder19]

You can't fight everybody, that's why he didn't fight them. Also, you act like he was in his prime when he lost most of those fights, or his premier weightclass, which isn't true at all.

He beats Loi no doubt. He beats Ortiz no doubt and KO's Arguello. Pryor is a very interesting fight, I think Duranis more well-rounded but Pryor may be able to out-muscle him or out-do him.

How canyou usay he beats Loi and Ortiz no doubt thats not true...And he would not stop Arguello..Arguello took a beating from Pryor that Duran wouldn't be able to deliver..Duran was also not as rough and strong as Pryor..

[brooklyn1550]

Aaron Pryor - Duran UD
Alexus Arguello - Duran TKO
Carlos Ortiz - Duran UD
Duilio Loi - Duran UD

[Robbi]

Aaron Pryor - Duran UD
Alexus Arguello - Duran TKO
Carlos Ortiz - Duran UD
Duilio Loi - Duran UD

I can't disgaree with the above.

[Robbi]

How canyou usay he beats Loi and Ortiz no doubt thats not true...And he would not stop Arguello..Arguello took a beating from Pryor that Duran wouldn't be able to deliver..Duran was also not as rough and strong as Pryor..

Duran was rougher than Pryor. In contests with similar strategys, against Leonard and Arguello, it was Duran who was the rougher fighter inside. Pryor was a very strong aggressive fighter, but he was not exactly would you call rough.

[Stonehands89]

Aaron Pryor
Alexus Arguello
Carlos Ortiz
Duilio Loi

How do u think Duran would've done against these fighters..I am a huge Duran fan top ten..But he did lose to his biggest competition..Lost 2-3 to leanord,got owned by Hearns..Got outclassed by Benitez and had a great but came short performance against Hagler..

he loses a UD TO PRYOR
he loses a UD TO LOI
pick'em against Arguello even though i would honestly lean a lil bit towards Arguello..

I would favor him against Ortiz only because Ortiz at the time was a fading fighter..but prime4prime it's a pick'em

what do u guys think??

I think you have to take more time to review Duran at his best.

[Luigi1985]

How canyou usay he beats Loi and Ortiz no doubt thats not true...And he would not stop Arguello..Arguello took a beating from Pryor that Duran wouldn't be able to deliver..Duran was also not as rough and strong as Pryor..


Well, you know, Duran, Ali and SRR are unbeatable in fantasy matchups here on ESB...

[Stonehands89]

Well, you know, Duran, Ali and SRR are unbeatable in fantasy matchups here on ESB...

Sarcasm aside,

who beats prime Duran at LW or WW?

Who beats prime Robinson at WW or MW?

Who beats 1967 Ali?

There is no shame or naivete in thoughtful denial that anyone could beat those three at the very best. That is why they are elites. For the record, I think that there are guys who have a chance and will tell you who if you are interested. But you first.

[Stonehands89]

No, that's not it, he just wouldn't be losing to Ortiz or Loi. How does Ortiz beat Duran? He was great, but not on Duran's level. All you guys constantly talk about how Whitaker can't beat Duran, so how does Loi? Pryor comes closest.

Interestingly enough, I believe that Pryor has the worst chance of the group of beating Duran.

[Luigi1985]

Sarcasm aside,

who beats prime Duran at LW or WW?

Who beats prime Robinson at WW or MW?

Who beats 1967 Ali?

There is no shame or naivete in thoughtful denial that anyone could beat those three at the very best. That is why they are elites. For the record, I think that there are guys who have a chance and will tell you who if you are interested. But you first.


I didn´t mean that these three legends at their prime could be beaten easily or so, but I know meanwhile that here on ESB (in general in most boxing forums) that these three fighters are unbeatable by their fans, don´t forget, for example at Lightweight there were so many great fighters, it´s one of the deepest weight classes talent-wise, so I wouldn´t write "No doubt, Duran wins easily against fighter A and against fighter B"..., especially if someone don´t even know the other fighter except from reading...

[Luigi1985]

At HW I would give these fighters a chance against Ali:

Rocky Marciano
James J. Corbett
Ken Norton
Joe Frazier
Lennox Lewis
Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield



Against Duran at 135 lbs.


Duilio Loi
Carlos Ortiz
Benny Leonard
Billy Petrolle
Tony Canzoneri
Ike Williams




Against SRR:


At MW there are more fighters (Benvenuti, Giardello, Tiger, Hagler, Monzon, etc.), here he´s very overrated, at WW I think only one fighter could beat him, and that´s Napoles... Whitaker and Hearns I give little chances...

[Titan1]

Who beats prime Duran at LW or WW? Whitaker at LW(maybe Williams) and Robinson at WW, as well as Gavilan, Griffith, and maybe Hearns.

Who beats prime Robinson at WW or MW? Noone at WW other than maybe Hearns. At MW I would favor noone I don't think but guys like Hagler, Monzon, Jones, would have a good shot.

Who beats 1967 Ali? Maybe Lewis(matchup), Holmes, arguably a prime Liston(doubt it).

They could all be beaten, but just not by the guys that were mentioned.

I doubt Holmes could beat that version of Ali.

[Stonehands89]

At HW I would give these fighters a chance against Ali:

Rocky Marciano
James J. Corbett
Ken Norton
Joe Frazier
Lennox Lewis
Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield

Against Duran at 135 lbs.

Duilio Loi
Carlos Ortiz
Benny Leonard
Billy Petrolle
Tony Canzoneri
Ike Williams

Against SRR:

At MW there are more fighters (Benvenuti, Giardello, Tiger, Hagler, Monzon, etc.), here he´s very overrated, at WW I think only one fighter could beat him, and that´s Napoles... Whitaker and Hearns I give little chances...

I should have said a "real chance" or who would you favor ... Any boxer has a "chance" to beat any other.

I'd favor no one to beat Duran at LW. The one who would come closest in my opinion is neither Benny nor Pernell. I'd say Shane Mosley.

At WW, I'd favor Robinson and Hearns. That's it. Duran would be a very slight favorite over Leonard.

I'd favor no one to beat Robinson at WW. At MW, I'd favor Hagler and Hopkins... and perhaps Hearns.

Ali. I'd actually favor Frazier.

[Luigi1985]

I should have said a "real chance" or who would you favor ... Any boxer has a "chance" to beat any other.

I'd favor no one to beat Duran at LW. The one who would come closest in my opinion is neither Benny nor Pernell. I'd say Shane Mosley.

At WW, I'd favor Robinson and Hearns. That's it. Duran would be a very slight favorite over Leonard.

I'd favor no one to beat Robinson at WW. At MW, I'd favor Hagler and Hopkins... and perhaps Hearns.

Ali. I'd actually favor Frazier.


Sorry, I didn´t write clearly what I meant. I meant that on their peak they have 50 % winning chances...

[smokin joe]

duran was past his prime when fighting those guys, you forgot to throw palimino in there, plus he beat the biggest fish in the sea which was leanord, plus duran threw the rematch agaisnt leanord

[masterorder19]

he still shouldve beat benitez...

[masterorder19]

If esteban de jeseus could come up with a victory other greats can aswell

[My dinner with Conteh]

I would favor him against Ortiz only because Ortiz at the time was a fading fighter..


At what time?

[Thread Stealer]

Why didn't Quartey fight Mosley?


Bad timing


Why didn't Quartey fight Trinidad?


They were scheduled to fight, but Quartey pulled out when he was offered the De La Hoya bout.


Why didn't Trinidad fight Mosley?

Bad timing.

[hopkinsfan07]

Duran was near unbeatable at lightweight

[Duodenum]

Only one of these matchups was ever a serious possibility.

In the mid and late 1970's, when Duran was proclaimed to be the P4P Numero Uno, boxing experts agreed that the one man near his weight who had the best chance of beating him was Arguello. After Roberto unified the lightweight title against DeJesus, Alexis stepped up in weight, to establish himself as a contender in that division. Unfortunately, Vilomar Fernandez derailed his initial foray as a lightweight, and Duran vacated his championship a few months later. (The next time Arguello tried stepping up in weight, he got by Boza Edwards, but was dropped and nearly derailed again by Ramirez.) It was the closest Alexis ever came to competing for an undisputed title.

Retroactively, it's obvious that at full strength Duran probably would have knocked out Alexis, but if Arguello had managed to defeat Fernandez impressively, and was fortunate enough to get a weight weakened Duran into the ring for the undisputed LW Title, he might have become one of the only two undisputed champions in boxing (until SRL/Hearns I). Alex might have then ruled the lightweight roost as long as Duran did, although better yet for him, as a unified champion.

Duran/Pryor would have gone to Roberto by UD. Aaron was wide open and a headhunter. The lower and more defensively skilled Duran was an experienced streetfighter (an asset most in evidence during his mugging of Davey Moore), and a dedicated bodypuncher. The Hawk didn't have the sort of accuracy or firepower that would have been needed to kayo Duran, and El Cholo would have outscored him badly. Even if peak Pryor was impervious, in the game of hitting without being hit, he would have finished a distant second.

[robert ungurean]

Duran beats them all with Pryor & Arguello giving him a very close fight.

[rodney]

Which Duran ?

At wgat weight ?

[JohnThomas1]

I can speak factually for Arguello

Arguello had no sooner expressed interest in moving up to take on Duran when he (Dooran) jumped not one but two divisions looking for the big fights. I actually have a pic somewhere of Duran cocking his right fist at an Arguello photo. Neither ducked each other. Duran would have been a terrible style match for Alexis, bless him.

[TBooze]

I can speak factually for Arguello

Arguello had no sooner expressed interest in moving up to take on Duran when he (Dooran) jumped not one but two divisions looking for the big fights. I actually have a pic somewhere of Duran cocking his right fist at an Arguello photo. Neither ducked each other. Duran would have been a terrible style match for Alexis, bless him.

I think that was to build that 78 bout, that was all but signed, sealed and delivered only for Arguello to blow a tune up non title bout.

[JohnThomas1]

I think that was to build that 78 bout, that was all but signed, sealed and delivered only for Arguello to blow a tune up non title bout.

I actually haven't heard what you claim anywhere. Source?

[Duodenum]

I can speak factually for Arguello

Arguello had no sooner expressed interest in moving up to take on Duran when he (Dooran) jumped not one but two divisions looking for the big fights. I actually have a pic somewhere of Duran cocking his right fist at an Arguello photo. Neither ducked each other. Duran would have been a terrible style match for Alexis, bless him.I've seen that pic as well, JT. Alex had considered Duran a friend, but when they crossed paths during that period, El Cholo, being the way he was at the time (a competitor who motivated himself through hating all of his opponents), glared at Arguello, and said, "When we fight, I'll kill you!" (Surprise, surprise.) Alexis, ever the Dale Carnegie student, was shocked at Roberto's sudden hostility, but he should have known Duran well enough to expect behaviour like that.

[TBooze]

I actually haven't heard what you claim anywhere. Source?

Peter Arnold claimed a match was being planned after Arguello/Tam, at the Inglewood Forum, only for Arguello to blow it when he lost to New York cabbie Vilomar Fernandez.

(Page 180 Lords of the Ring)

[JohnThomas1]

I've seen that pic as well, JT. Alex had considered Duran a friend, but when they crossed paths during that period, El Cholo, being the way he was at the time (a competitor who motivated himself through hating all of his opponents), glared at Arguello, and said, "When we fight, I'll kill you!" (Surprise, surprise.) Alexis, ever the Dale Carnegie student, was shocked at Roberto's sudden hostility, but he should have known Duran well enough to expect behaviour like that.

Why am i not surprised you too have seen it. You lived my era to the hilt boxing wise, great stuff.

[Stonehands89]

I've seen that pic as well, JT. Alex had considered Duran a friend, but when they crossed paths during that period, El Cholo, being the way he was at the time (a competitor who motivated himself through hating all of his opponents), glared at Arguello, and said, "When we fight, I'll kill you!" (Surprise, surprise.) Alexis, ever the Dale Carnegie student, was shocked at Roberto's sudden hostility, but he should have known Duran well enough to expect behaviour like that.

Alexis was asked if he could have beaten Duran had they fought, and he replied that he didn't beleive that he could.

Alexis was a fan of Duran and as Duran moved up in weight and challenged heavier champions, you can see him in the first few rows. He seemed to be alone, cheering for Duran. He was at Montreal and I believe he was at the Hagler fight as well. He was the Nicarguan waving the Panamanian flag.

[JohnThomas1]

Alexis was asked if he could have beaten Duran had they fought, and he replied that he didn't beleive that he could.

Alexis was a fan of Duran and as Duran moved up in weight and challenged heavier champions, you can see him in the first few rows. He seemed to be alone, cheering for Duran. He was at Montreal and I believe he was at the Hagler fight as well. He was the Nicarguan waving the Panamanian flag.

I have pics of him in the crowd at the Hagler fight, not far from Tommy Hearns.

[Duodenum]

Why am i not surprised you too have seen it. You lived my era to the hilt boxing wise, great stuff.Damn. We've gotta stop dating ourselves!

[Robbi]

I have pics of him in the crowd at the Hagler fight, not far from Tommy Hearns.

Holmes and his wife were near Hearns as well.

[Stonehands89]

Holmes and his wife were near Hearns as well.

Gabe Kaplan was near him too. "Welcome Back, Kotter".

[JohnThomas1]

Holmes and his wife were near Hearns as well.


Ah spot on! I do indeed remember that Robbi.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I actually haven't heard what you claim anywhere. Source?


I have an issue of Boxing Illustrated from 1978 with a 'superfight' preview actually mate, so the ball* was definitely in motion. Duran wins KO 13. Slightly ahead on cards.




* It was a meatball, Duran ate it. :p


Cue: Tumbleweed.

[JohnThomas1]

I have an issue of Boxing Illustrated from 1978 with a 'superfight' preview actually mate, so the ball* was definitely in motion. Duran wins KO 13. Slightly ahead on cards.




* It was a meatball, Duran ate it. :p


Cue: Tumbleweed.

LMFAO!!!! Incidently i agree, bad stylistic match for Alexis. I do know word was Arguello was thinking of stepping up, just thought it didn't quite get that close. Good info you two

:good

[Titan1]

Gabe Kaplan was near him too. "Welcome Back, Kotter".

Dag, Gabe a boxing fan.

[Bummy Davis]

Duran beats them all, mostly by TKO or KO unless they run there ass off