Who did Foreman say hit him hardest?

[Vincent Gottschalk]

Was it?

# 1 Gerry Cooney
# 2 Tommy Morrison
# 3 Ron Lyle
# 4 Joe Frazier
# 5 Michael Moore
# 6 Ken Norton
# 7 Shannon Briggs

I heard it was Cooney on the show Ringside Foreman the comeback

[rekcutnevets]

I heard him say Cooney as well.

Gil Clancy helped train Cooney for his fight against Foreman, and claimed Cooney was good going into that fight. He said he considered it the first win over a quality heavyweight in George's 2nd career.

[The Kurgan]

The problem is, Foreman will say it was Joe Frazier for a Joe Frazier DVD and Shannon Briggs for a Lennox Lewis DVD. The man is not a reliable source; I'm not saying he's a liar, but he changes his stories quickly.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he said that Ali was the hardest puncher he ever faced. Foreman could say anything and I wouldn't be shocked.

[Duodenum]

On camera, he's said that Ron Lyle hit him the hardest of anybody he faced in his career, but I don't know whether or not he made that comment before facing Cooney.

Not long after facing Cooney, Holmes said he really couldn't gage Gerry's power, because he lacked the speed necessary to catch Holmes flush like Shavers did. This would also apply to Ali's match with Cleveland Williams. Allegedly, he was a harder puncher than Liston, but he only landed six punches on Muhammad. The specific question isn't who was the hardest hitter these boxers fought against, but rather, who actually hit them the hardest. (It doesn't matter how hard the punch is, if it fails to connect. Cuevas might have been a harder puncher than Hearns, but Tommy was able to land where Pipino couldn't get close enough to.)

[Thread Stealer]

The problem is, Foreman will say it was Joe Frazier for a Joe Frazier DVD and Shannon Briggs for a Lennox Lewis DVD. The man is not a reliable source; I'm not saying he's a liar, but he changes his stories quickly.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he said that Ali was the hardest puncher he ever faced. Foreman could say anything and I wouldn't be shocked.

Agreed, Foreman is so out there with his comments.

Before Lewis beats Tyson in a Sports Illustrated article:

"He'd last two rounds with me in my prime"

After Lewis beat Tyson, in England:

"Lewis is the greatest heavyweight ever".

[RAMPAGE0017]

To go off topic for a moment, I never quite understood why Holmes said " Shavers hit me harder than Tyson " or something to that effect. If Shavers hit him harder, then how come he kept falling like a sack of rocks when Tyson connected? :lol:

[The Kurgan]

Agreed, Foreman is so out there with his comments.

Before Lewis beats Tyson in a Sports Illustrated article:

"He'd last two rounds with me in my prime"

After Lewis beat Tyson, in England:

"Lewis is the greatest heavyweight ever".

He also claimed Riddick Bowe- guilty of the most overt ducking since Patterson ducked Liston- had the biggest heart of all time along with Ali. Chicken Bowe, of all people.

[Duodenum]

To go off topic for a moment, I never quite understood why Holmes said " Shavers hit me harder than Tyson " or something to that effect. If Shavers hit him harder, then how come he kept falling like a sack of rocks when Tyson connected? :lol:Mike had the speed necessary to catch a rusty Holmes. Shavers landed one huge bomb on a peak conditioned 209 pound Holmes. If Tyson was in there then, instead of Earnie, he too would have been hard pressed to connect frequently enough to stop Larry. (Unlike Foreman, it's my understanding that Holmes has always been consistent in his answers about competitive experiences.)

[brooklyn1550]

Who knows with what comes out of Foreman's mouth...

but I've heard him say Lyle hit him the hardest before

[unitas]

my guess would be colesterol....

[Thread Stealer]

He also claimed Riddick Bowe- guilty of the most overt ducking since Patterson ducked Liston- had the biggest heart of all time along with Ali. Chicken Bowe, of all people.

During that fight though (Golota rematch), Bowe showed a ton of heart. I think Lampley was a little annoyed when he asked George "what makes you say that?" Like, "what is this weirdo talking about this time?"

My favorite Foreman comment is probably:

"No one is pound for pound the best until they beat James Page"

[Bigcat]

His mother...........

[RAMPAGE0017]

Mike had the speed necessary to catch a rusty Holmes. Shavers landed one huge bomb on a peak conditioned 209 pound Holmes. If Tyson was in there then, instead of Earnie, he too would have been hard pressed to connect frequently enough to stop Larry. (Unlike Foreman, it's my understanding that Holmes has always been consistent in his answers about competitive experiences.)


Holmes never got stopped in any fight following the Tyson fight, so obviously age hadn't been too unkind to his ability to take a punch.

And you can say " Tyson would have a harder time catching a peak Holmes " but nevertheless he did catch a past-his-best Holmes, and Holmes did indeed fall down like someone sawed him off at the shins. I just have a difficult time believing that Shavers hit him harder than Tyson when Tyson is the one who was knocking him around like a rag-doll.

[Bad_Intentions]

Ali :yep

[The Kurgan]

During that fight though (Golota rematch), Bowe showed a ton of heart.

Even Tyson and Golota showed heart at times, but no-one is going to claim they had balls of steel.

My favorite Foreman comment is probably:

"No one is pound for pound the best until they beat James Page"

:lol:

[ChrisPontius]

He also claimed Riddick Bowe- guilty of the most overt ducking since Patterson ducked Liston- had the biggest heart of all time along with Ali. Chicken Bowe, of all people.

Well maybe he had a word with Zakman. :lol:

[My dinner with Conteh]

George talks a lot of shit but it's often because he says nice things about people. Ali often said lots of different fight were his toughest. Holmes is just a cunt that discredits everyone.

[McGrain]

I have him saying Liston...

[rekcutnevets]

I havn't heard Holmes discredit everyone. In his biography he spoke of his fight with Ali. He said when he sparred Ali, Ali was very strong in a clinch. He said he felt nothing from his during their fight. He even said he couldn't have beaten Ali at his best. That does not sound like discrediting.

In his comeback of the 90's, they rolled out a Mike Tyson statue type thing on USA, and asked Holmes about a rematch. He said he wasn't interested in that, he had enough the first time.

[JohnThomas1]

Jimmy Young.

[Cojimar 1945]

Holmes doesen't discredit everyone. He spoke well about Norton and Ali in his autobiography.

[timmers612]

My understanding, and of how Holmes comprared Tysons punch to Shavers, was how sharp Tysons punch landed, right on the point of the jaw. Shavers punch at the same point was like a sledge hammer.

[JohnThomas1]

Holmes discredited dozens. Potshots at a reformed Pinklon Thomas as a junkie to hammering away at Coetzee's heritage to plenty more. Hey, that was Larry.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Holmes discredited dozens. Potshots at a reformed Pinklon Thomas as a junkie to hammering away at Coetzee's heritage to plenty more. Hey, that was Larry.



One of his worst was to Witherspoon, who was just a young lad that fought his heart out and some very respected media members thought Tim had won (New York Times and Boxing News for a start). Holmes, as graceless as ever, spouted: "A couple of fight ago he couldn't have worn my socks". What a classless buffoon he was.

[JohnThomas1]

One of his worst was to Witherspoon, who was just a young lad that fought his heart out and some very respected media members thought Tim had won (New York Times and Boxing News for a start). Holmes, as graceless as ever, spouted: "A couple of fight ago he couldn't have worn my socks". What a classless buffoon he was.

Yeah, and Rocky and the jockstrap etc. Love him or hate him as a fighter, he had some serious foot in mouth probs. Always claiming he never got any respect, whilst all the while disrespecting others.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Yeah, and Rocky and the jockstrap etc. Love him or hate him as a fighter, he had some serious foot in mouth probs. Always claiming he never got any respect, whilst all the while disrespecting others.


I was actually reading the Rocky stuff the other day. Most of the post-fight press conference was reprinted in Ring. He even slags off Marciano to Rocky's daughter. What a prick.

[JohnThomas1]

I was actually reading the Rocky stuff the other day. Most of the post-fight press conference was reprinted in Ring. He even slags off Marciano to Rocky's daughter. What a prick.

Yeah i saw all that back in the day. Larry was a very bitter man with a very substancial chip. He seems to have settled a bit now, we can only hope :think

[hobgoblin]

I was actually reading the Rocky stuff the other day. Most of the post-fight press conference was reprinted in Ring. He even slags off Marciano to Rocky's daughter. What a prick.
You need to keep things into perspective. First of all, Holmes clearly won the fight with Tim Witherspoon. In fact, he even won round 9 (as one judge had it). It was competitive no doubt but also very clear for Holmes (it as clear as 100 being higher than 90). People in the media just wanted to sell papers and spark controversary - I believe that. Anyway, to get to the point, Tim Witherspoon was being very mischievous and I saw the interview where both showed up to review the fight. Tim wasn't giving Larry the proper respect. Besides, Larry did speak the TRUTH. Can you really compare Tim to Larry when you look at achievments & greatness? No way.

As for Marciano - you conveniently ignore all the crap that Peter Marciano gave Larry Holmes before those comments were made. It was VERY provoked but people usually ignore these things. I don't blame Larry. Rocky Marciano - had he been alive - would have avoided that mess by stopping his brother from speaking so much crap when Larry was 48-0. Holmes spoke the truth about Tyson & Shavers. Usually fighters do discredit the guy that beat them and overcredit the guy that he beat but I believe Larry here. Tyson was more effective with his cumulation punching as he tagged old Larry repeatedly in that fight but effective is different from pure power.

[achillesthegreat]

The problem is, Foreman will say it was Joe Frazier for a Joe Frazier DVD and Shannon Briggs for a Lennox Lewis DVD. The man is not a reliable source; I'm not saying he's a liar, but he changes his stories quickly.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he said that Ali was the hardest puncher he ever faced. Foreman could say anything and I wouldn't be shocked.
Kinda true. The only thing I've seen him stay consistent with is his love for Lewis. He always says he loves a big man with a jab and Lewis is basically the best of a prime Muhammad Ali and George Foreman in one. I'd actually agree.

[apollack]

I don't care who he says hit him hardest. The guy actually DID hit him hardest was Ron Lyle. If you watch that fight you'll have no doubt about it.

[My dinner with Conteh]

You need to keep things into perspective. First of all, Holmes clearly won the fight with Tim Witherspoon. In fact, he even won round 9 (as one judge had it). It was competitive no doubt but also very clear for Holmes (it as clear as 100 being higher than 90). People in the media just wanted to sell papers and spark controversary - I believe that.


Well if you believe that you'll believe anything. I can't imagine that day New York Times readership went up 10% because somewhere on the fifth back page Dave Anderson said he thought Holmes lost. Same with Boxing News, whose headline of the fight was similar to Ring's (who had Holmes winning). The review of the fight was very similar too- only with a 'slightly' different scorecard. :huh

[Robbi]

Well if you believe that you'll believe anything. I can't imagine that day New York Times readership went up 10% because somewhere on the fifth back page Dave Anderson said he thought Holmes lost. Same with Boxing News, whose headline of the fight was similar to Ring's (who had Holmes winning). The review of the fight was very similar too- only with a 'slightly' different scorecard. :huh
I thought Holmes won a very close decision. Most of the early rounds were pretty tight, but Holmes was slightly getting the better of the jabbing exhanges over the first 5 rounds. He wasn't landing anything significant on a regular basis, but was a step ahead Witherspoon. I thought Witherspoon really began to dictate the tempo during the second half of the fight. And who can forget his barrage which had Holmes as good as out on his feet during the 9th round, before Holmes stormed back at the end of the round when he caught Witherspoon with a right hand flush on the money.

[Cojimar 1945]

Insulting other fighters does not seem unusual these days. Holmes said bad things about other fighters but guys like Ali, Tyson and Bowe have also done this.

[round15]

To go off topic for a moment, I never quite understood why Holmes said " Shavers hit me harder than Tyson " or something to that effect. If Shavers hit him harder, then how come he kept falling like a sack of rocks when Tyson connected? :lol:

Holmes was in much, much better condition for his fight against Shavers and was practically a shell of the champion he was when he fought Tyson. Shavers right hand is often recognized by fighters and trainers as the hardest punch in heavyweight history. Only Foreman, Liston and Tyson can be compared honestly to Shavers in terms of right hand power.

[Russell]

Jimmy Young.

Young did pop his eardrums, didn't he?

[groove]

I don't care who he says hit him hardest. The guy actually DID hit him hardest was Ron Lyle. If you watch that fight you'll have no doubt about it.

Thank you.

[JohnThomas1]

The problem is, Foreman will say it was Joe Frazier for a Joe Frazier DVD and Shannon Briggs for a Lennox Lewis DVD. The man is not a reliable source; I'm not saying he's a liar, but he changes his stories quickly.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he said that Ali was the hardest puncher he ever faced. Foreman could say anything and I wouldn't be shocked.
And that's it in a nutshell. Your pinpoint candidness comes thru yet again

:good

[Bill1234]

You need to keep things into perspective. First of all, Holmes clearly won the fight with Tim Witherspoon. In fact, he even won round 9 (as one judge had it). It was competitive no doubt but also very clear for Holmes (it as clear as 100 being higher than 90). People in the media just wanted to sell papers and spark controversary - I believe that. Anyway, to get to the point, Tim Witherspoon was being very mischievous and I saw the interview where both showed up to review the fight. Tim wasn't giving Larry the proper respect. Besides, Larry did speak the TRUTH. Can you really compare Tim to Larry when you look at achievments & greatness? No way.

As for Marciano - you conveniently ignore all the crap that Peter Marciano gave Larry Holmes before those comments were made. It was VERY provoked but people usually ignore these things. I don't blame Larry. Rocky Marciano - had he been alive - would have avoided that mess by stopping his brother from speaking so much crap when Larry was 48-0. Holmes spoke the truth about Tyson & Shavers. Usually fighters do discredit the guy that beat them and overcredit the guy that he beat but I believe Larry here. Tyson was more effective with his cumulation punching as he tagged old Larry repeatedly in that fight but effective is different from pure power.

Exactly. Holmes has said Tyson was the sharpest puncher, but Shavers was the hardest puncher.

But anyway, in response to the thread, I've heard Foreman say Lyle. I believe very little that comes out of his mouth. He changes his stories and listings and such every interview it seems.

[Bill1234]

Holmes was in much, much better condition for his fight against Shavers and was practically a shell of the champion he was when he fought Tyson. Shavers right hand is often recognized by fighters and trainers as the hardest punch in heavyweight history. Only Foreman, Liston and Tyson can be compared honestly to Shavers in terms of right hand power.

Don't forget Marciano.

[apollack]

He's lying if he said anyone other than Ron Lyle.

Lyle hit him harder than anyone.

[JohnThomas1]

Young did pop his eardrums, didn't he?

I saw this bandied around the other day, but must say i've never seen the claim elsewhere. Was it Lobo/Duo?

[Guido]

I have him saying Liston...

Yeah, I was watching Cotto-Malinaggi recently and I think he said that Liston laid a cruel beating on him a couple times in sparring.

[DamonD]

I think we can conclude then, from his changing loyalties, that whoever did hit George hardest obviously hit very hard indeed... ;)

[Swedish81]

Was it?

# 1 Gerry Cooney
# 2 Tommy Morrison
# 3 Ron Lyle
# 4 Joe Frazier
# 5 Michael Moore
# 6 Ken Norton
# 7 Shannon Briggs

I heard it was Cooney on the show Ringside Foreman the comeback

I think it was Michael Moore :lol:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Bill1234]

I think it was Michael Moore :lol:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:lol: ..................:vonnecunt

[enquirer]

The tax man.....

[KINGOFTHE1ROUND]

Larry Holmes is not a reliable source for anything because he lets jealousy and bitterness get in his way. Larry hates Foreman and Iron Mike.Lets us not forget that Larry said Butterbean was the hardest hitter. Oh Larry!

[KINGOFTHE1ROUND]

Also,in George's Centerstage interview from 2002(I think) he said Ron Lyle hit him the hardest but he also said Cooney had a tremendous left hook on a different occasion.

[TheGreatA]

Lyle and Cooney.

[Seamus]

Ken Lakusta, he once said, also.

[Duodenum]

When George has been pressed to compare between several different opponents like Cooney, Morrison, Holyfield and Lyle, he always seems to settle on Ron according to everything I've read, and it is a fact that Lyle decked him twice at a time when Foreman would have been at his athletic peak, and did it without the aid of fatigue as a factor.

I've also read that he rated Ali fifth in terms of power, and Muhammad hit George with the hardest shots he ever loaded up on. (That final right hand is supposed to have been the single biggest bomb of Ali's career, surpassing the ones which initially knocked Lyle from mid ring to the ropes in round 11, and the one which staggered Frazier into a neutral corner near the end of round two in their middle fight. Nobody disputes that Bonavena was shelled by the hardest left hook of the GOAT's career, "a wrecking ball" as Norman Mailer put it.)

[Kalasinn]

When George has been pressed to compare between several different opponents like Cooney, Morrison, Holyfield and Lyle, he always seems to settle on Ron according to everything I've read, and it is a fact that Lyle decked him twice at a time when Foreman would have been at his athletic peak, and did it without the aid of fatigue as a factor.

I've also read that he rated Ali fifth in terms of power, and Muhammad hit George with the hardest shots he ever loaded up on. (That final right hand is supposed to have been the single biggest bomb of Ali's career, surpassing the ones which initially knocked Lyle from mid ring to the ropes in round 11, and the one which staggered Frazier into a neutral corner near the end of round two in their middle fight. Nobody disputes that Bonavena was shelled by the hardest left hook of the GOAT's career, "a wrecking ball" as Norman Mailer put it.)

Great post. :good

[he grant]

Foreman has always referred to Lyle as the hardest puncher he ever faced .. he mentioned that in the first round Cooney hit him and it reminded him of Lyle ... Lyle has always been his reference point ...

[Vince Voltage]

I've noticed a tendency amongst prideful fighters to proclaim that the hardest puncher or the toughest or whatever was SOMEONE THAT THEY BEAT, because it then makes them look like they overcame hell to win. Whereas if it's someone who beat them, they tend to be dismissive and either imply or outright claim that it was a fluke or the result of some circumstance beyond their control. Holmes, for example, will always say Shavers hit him harder, because then he can discredit Tyson and also play up his own victory over Earnie.

[praetorianJJ]

He also claimed Riddick Bowe- guilty of the most overt ducking since Patterson ducked Liston- had the biggest heart of all time along with Ali. Chicken Bowe, of all people.

i'm not familiar with that quote but he may have been referencing the second golota fight

[MAG1965]

Was it?

# 1 Gerry Cooney
# 2 Tommy Morrison
# 3 Ron Lyle
# 4 Joe Frazier
# 5 Michael Moore
# 6 Ken Norton
# 7 Shannon Briggs

I heard it was Cooney on the show Ringside Foreman the comebackand the Cooney punch didn't land with Cooney having full leverage.

[clinikill]

George said after his fight with Cooney that Gerry hit him the hardest. Big George may have just been trying to talk Gerry up after demolishing him.

[Duodenum]

I've noticed a tendency amongst prideful fighters to proclaim that the hardest puncher or the toughest or whatever was SOMEONE THAT THEY BEAT, because it then makes them look like they overcame hell to win. Whereas if it's someone who beat them, they tend to be dismissive and either imply or outright claim that it was a fluke or the result of some circumstance beyond their control. Holmes, for example, will always say Shavers hit him harder, because then he can discredit Tyson and also play up his own victory over Earnie.This is often true, but only Lyle had Foreman down twice.

Regarding Shavers, we can see that the face plant knockdown he inflicted on Tillis (the only other common opponent of Tyson and Shavers besides Larry) was far more devastating than the flash KD Tyson scored on him, which merely evoked a reassuring wink from James to his corner when he got up.

Jimmy Young never defeated Shavers, but rated Earnie a clearly harder puncher than George, and Shavers did drop Jimmy in both their bouts, the only times Young ever hit the floor (aside from a referee ruled knockdown against Ali when Young ducked through the ropes and got hung up on them).

All five common opponents of Shavers and Foreman rated Earnie as the harder puncher. Lyle and Ali have rated Shavers supreme in this area on clips widely seen on youtube, while Leroy Caldwell made the following astounding comments in an interview.

"Foreman could punch about the same as Lyle."

Then, about Shavers:

"He was the hardest hitting human being I ever met. He hit harder than Foreman and Lyle combined.":scaredas:

Considering the fact that Caldwell also squared off with Cleveland Williams, Coetzee, Bonavena, John Tate, Bey, Pinklon Thomas, Joe Alexander (who decked Jerry Quarry, knocking him silly), Bugner, Coetzer, Berbick, ect... this is a rather staggering endorsement.

Here's the article about Leroy:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I had the pleasure of viewing some of his televised late career wins from Las Vegas in 1981, where fans chanted his name when he got on a roll. A shrewd and gifted operator with an educated left who was much better than his overall record suggests. Drew with Urtain in Spain, Berbick in Canada, and actually clowned Tate a bit in what may have been the final nationally televised appearance for both. Again, he had plenty to measure Earnie's power against;

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


There are multiple angles of the knockdown punch Shavers landed Holmes with, and Earnie has indicated that may have been the hardest single blow he ever landed. It really clobbered Larry, and I don't think Tyson connected on Holmes with anything quite like it.

Too bad George and Earnie never squared off. While I believe Foreman would have prevailed, I don't think he would have suggested even for an instant that any subsequent opponent hit as hard.

An aside to all these discussions about who hit the hardest concerns the matter of toughest opponents, the opinion of one man in particular. After his final successful title defense, Saad Muhammad was asked if a specific challenger was his most difficult adversary. To his everlasting credit, Matt replied, "I'm not going to lie," then explicitly identified Marvin Johnson as the man who gave him the most hell, over Conteh, Yaqui, Kates, Billy Douglas, Camel, Parlov, Vonzell Johnson, Sutherland and Jerry Martin. I've always been impressed with that candor and consistency of praise for Marvin by Matthew, who certainly had plenty to compare the pride of Indianapolis to. (Marvin might be able to get himself elected Mayor of Indy for all we know.)

[he grant]

This is often true, but only Lyle had Foreman down twice.

Regarding Shavers, we can see that the face plant knockdown he inflicted on Tillis (the only other common opponent of Tyson and Shavers besides Larry) was far more devastating than the flash KD Tyson scored on him, which merely evoked a reassuring wink from James to his corner when he got up.

Jimmy Young never defeated Shavers, but rated Earnie a clearly harder puncher than George, and Shavers did drop Jimmy in both their bouts, the only times Young ever hit the floor (aside from a referee ruled knockdown against Ali when Young ducked through the ropes and got hung up on them).

All five common opponents of Shavers and Foreman rated Earnie as the harder puncher. Lyle and Ali have rated Shavers supreme in this area on clips widely seen on youtube, while Leroy Caldwell made the following astounding comments in an interview.

"Foreman could punch about the same as Lyle."

Then, about Shavers:

"He was the hardest hitting human being I ever met. He hit harder than Foreman and Lyle combined.":scaredas:

Considering the fact that Caldwell also squared off with Cleveland Williams, Coetzee, Bonavena, John Tate, Bey, Pinklon Thomas, Joe Alexander (who decked Jerry Quarry, knocking him silly), Bugner, Coetzer, Berbick, ect... this is a rather staggering endorsement.

Here's the article about Leroy:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I had the pleasure of viewing some of his televised late career wins from Las Vegas in 1981, where fans chanted his name when he got on a roll. A shrewd and gifted operator with an educated left who was much better than his overall record suggests. Drew with Urtain in Spain, Berbick in Canada, and actually clowned Tate a bit in what may have been the final nationally televised appearance for both. Again, he had plenty to measure Earnie's power against;

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


There are multiple angles of the knockdown punch Shavers landed Holmes with, and Earnie has indicated that may have been the hardest single blow he ever landed. It really clobbered Larry, and I don't think Tyson connected on Holmes with anything quite like it.

Too bad George and Earnie never squared off. While I believe Foreman would have prevailed, I don't think he would have suggested even for an instant that any subsequent opponent hit as hard.

An aside to all these discussions about who hit the hardest concerns the matter of toughest opponents, the opinion of one man in particular. After his final successful title defense, Saad Muhammad was asked if a specific challenger was his most difficult adversary. To his everlasting credit, Matt replied, "I'm not going to lie," then explicitly identified Marvin Johnson as the man who gave him the most hell, over Conteh, Yaqui, Kates, Billy Douglas, Camel, Parlov, Vonzell Johnson, Sutherland and Jerry Martin. I've always been impressed with that candor and consistency of praise for Marvin by Matthew, who certainly had plenty to compare the pride of Indianapolis to. (Marvin might be able to get himself elected Mayor of Indy for all we know.)

Great , interesting post ... Pretty much everyone said Shavers hit the hardest ... Foreman was a monster as well, more likely the strongest and a brutal puncher ... slightly underestimated is Liston who I feel was second only to Shavers .. he was a faster, straighter puncher than George and his KO's were devastating ...

[Bill1234]

This is often true, but only Lyle had Foreman down twice.

Regarding Shavers, we can see that the face plant knockdown he inflicted on Tillis (the only other common opponent of Tyson and Shavers besides Larry) was far more devastating than the flash KD Tyson scored on him, which merely evoked a reassuring wink from James to his corner when he got up.

Jimmy Young never defeated Shavers, but rated Earnie a clearly harder puncher than George, and Shavers did drop Jimmy in both their bouts, the only times Young ever hit the floor (aside from a referee ruled knockdown against Ali when Young ducked through the ropes and got hung up on them).

All five common opponents of Shavers and Foreman rated Earnie as the harder puncher. Lyle and Ali have rated Shavers supreme in this area on clips widely seen on youtube, while Leroy Caldwell made the following astounding comments in an interview.

"Foreman could punch about the same as Lyle."

Then, about Shavers:

"He was the hardest hitting human being I ever met. He hit harder than Foreman and Lyle combined.":scaredas:

Considering the fact that Caldwell also squared off with Cleveland Williams, Coetzee, Bonavena, John Tate, Bey, Pinklon Thomas, Joe Alexander (who decked Jerry Quarry, knocking him silly), Bugner, Coetzer, Berbick, ect... this is a rather staggering endorsement.

Here's the article about Leroy:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I had the pleasure of viewing some of his televised late career wins from Las Vegas in 1981, where fans chanted his name when he got on a roll. A shrewd and gifted operator with an educated left who was much better than his overall record suggests. Drew with Urtain in Spain, Berbick in Canada, and actually clowned Tate a bit in what may have been the final nationally televised appearance for both. Again, he had plenty to measure Earnie's power against;

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


There are multiple angles of the knockdown punch Shavers landed Holmes with, and Earnie has indicated that may have been the hardest single blow he ever landed. It really clobbered Larry, and I don't think Tyson connected on Holmes with anything quite like it.

Too bad George and Earnie never squared off. While I believe Foreman would have prevailed, I don't think he would have suggested even for an instant that any subsequent opponent hit as hard.

An aside to all these discussions about who hit the hardest concerns the matter of toughest opponents, the opinion of one man in particular. After his final successful title defense, Saad Muhammad was asked if a specific challenger was his most difficult adversary. To his everlasting credit, Matt replied, "I'm not going to lie," then explicitly identified Marvin Johnson as the man who gave him the most hell, over Conteh, Yaqui, Kates, Billy Douglas, Camel, Parlov, Vonzell Johnson, Sutherland and Jerry Martin. I've always been impressed with that candor and consistency of praise for Marvin by Matthew, who certainly had plenty to compare the pride of Indianapolis to. (Marvin might be able to get himself elected Mayor of Indy for all we know.)

Great post to show just how hard Earnie hit.

[Sonny Carson]

I heard him say Ron Lyle hit him the hardest.

[Seamus]

"He was the hardest hitting human being I ever met. He hit harder than Foreman and Lyle combined.":scaredas:


Nice insight, duodenum. I don't even want to think about this quote above. Jesus H. Too bad Shavers took so long to learn to pace himself, and never really bloomed into a top rate finisher. You can't teach that kinda power.

[Duodenum]

Nice insight, duodenum. I don't even want to think about this quote above. Jesus H. Too bad Shavers took so long to learn to pace himself, and never really bloomed into a top rate finisher. You can't teach that kinda power.The implications of Caldwell's quote are so horrifying that I thought I'd better finally post a link to that article rather than merely repeat what he said again, and also provide a link to Leroy's record, so it could be seen who else he came up against to compare Earnie to.

It was written that part of the reason Shavers tired so easily was because "his arms are like a pair of 50 pound clubs." Putting together punches like Louis would have been problematic for him, and maybe establishing a greater degree of muscular endurance would have been impractical for his physical template. However, he also sported an 80 inch reach with long arms for a man of his height, which would have enabled him to cultivate a more serviceable jab. He did jab his way to a decision win over iron chinned 6'3" stylist Henry Clark in their first match, but there appear to have been few other times, if any, where Earnie's jab was the key punch in winning a bout.

Remarkably though, his stamina may have been better than Foreman's during the 1970s. Big George never produced a knockdown beyond round five until his second career, while Earnie knocked out Chuck Leslie, Rochelle Norris and Tiger Williams in ten, then swept round 14 on all three judges cards from Ali. His seventh round knockdown of Holmes was also better than Foreman's seventh round stunning of Young. (Don't forget that Shavers, off the ropes, later blew over Larry with a right to the shoulder.)

Ali was able to recall Kinshasa, Manila and the FOTC in detail immediately after those bouts, but only remembered enough of Shavers to assert with absolute certainty that Earnie was the hardest puncher he ever fought. Muhammad didn't look right in the ring as that decision was being announced, and it's frightening to see how many times he was wobbled in that one. (Significantly, he wasn't interviewed following this concussion inducing event, or we might have had another instance of Mike Quarry after Bob Foster, or Starling after Molinares.)

[Foreman Hook]

Big George himself said Ronny Lyle hit him with teh hardest haymakers in his life, but Cooney was v.close.

Ronny "Tate And" Lyle was 1 of teh top 10 most powerful huge Punchers in history, he KO'd Shavers, Garcia And Mathis. And Lyle twice dropped teh Pure-Iron-chinned Big George Foreman, who was only dropped by Young, Ali And Lyle in a long career of 81 fights!!

[clark]

Calwell was ko'd in 2 by Foreman but said something different.

[Seamus]

Big George himself said Ronny Lyle hit him with teh hardest haymakers in his life, but Cooney was v.close.

Ronny "Tate And" Lyle was 1 of teh top 10 most powerful huge Punchers in history, he KO'd Shavers, Garcia And Mathis. And Lyle twice dropped teh Pure-Iron-chinned Big George Foreman, who was only dropped by Young, Ali And Lyle in a long career of 81 fights!!

Lyle is not a top ten puncher for the division, maybe not even top 20. Garcia was KO'd in his two run-up fights to the Lyle bout, and KO'd once before those fights. The Mathis' KO was Mathis' last fight, also.

Regarding Foreman, far too much is made of these KD's. It is obvious that he was fragile mentally. Why else would all of his KD's occur in a 3 year window in the what was really the middle of a 20 year career? Sure, Lyle had pop, but he certainly took advantage of good timing in this regard and still only made it 5. Furthermore, the fact that two relatively powder-puff punchers put Foreman down during the same stretch only underscores this interpretation of events.

[Todd498]

Big George himself said Ronny Lyle hit him with teh hardest haymakers in his life, but Cooney was v.close.

Ronny "Tate And" Lyle was 1 of teh top 10 most powerful huge Punchers in history, he KO'd Shavers, Garcia And Mathis. And Lyle twice dropped teh Pure-Iron-chinned Big George Foreman, who was only dropped by Young, Ali And Lyle in a long career of 81 fights!!

I have this fight and I don't think I ever saw George get clobbered harder than against Lyle. Ron was throwing shots at George that seemed like he wanted to punch a hole through him.

[P00ckerh00ked]

Big George himself said Ronny Lyle hit him with teh hardest haymakers in his life, but Cooney was v.close.!

wrong . as a foreman NUTHUGGER i wud think u wud get the facts right m8 .

Cooney hit him the hardest according 2 George. I HAVE THE FULL SHOWTIME BROADCAST ON DVD-REMASTERED-HD . IT INCLUDES AN INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE HE SAYS COONEY HIT HIM THE HARDEST FACT

[Bill1234]

wrong . as a foreman NUTHUGGER i wud think u wud get the facts right m8 .

Cooney hit him the hardest according 2 George. I HAVE THE FULL SHOWTIME BROADCAST ON DVD-REMASTERED-HD . IT INCLUDES AN INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE HE SAYS COONEY HIT HIM THE HARDEST FACT

He's also said Lyle has. Foreman will say whatever he feels will please the target audience and further grow his popularity.

[Jacquot]

You need to keep things into perspective. First of all, Holmes clearly won the fight with Tim Witherspoon. In fact, he even won round 9 (as one judge had it). It was competitive no doubt but also very clear for Holmes (it as clear as 100 being higher than 90). People in the media just wanted to sell papers and spark controversary - I believe that. Anyway, to get to the point, Tim Witherspoon was being very mischievous and I saw the interview where both showed up to review the fight. Tim wasn't giving Larry the proper respect. Besides, Larry did speak the TRUTH. Can you really compare Tim to Larry when you look at achievments & greatness? No way.

As for Marciano - you conveniently ignore all the crap that Peter Marciano gave Larry Holmes before those comments were made. It was VERY provoked but people usually ignore these things. I don't blame Larry. Rocky Marciano - had he been alive - would have avoided that mess by stopping his brother from speaking so much crap when Larry was 48-0. Holmes spoke the truth about Tyson & Shavers. Usually fighters do discredit the guy that beat them and overcredit the guy that he beat but I believe Larry here. Tyson was more effective with his cumulation punching as he tagged old Larry repeatedly in that fight but effective is different from pure power.


Good to see that someone had a clue about Holmes in this thread.

[anarci]

Ive heard FOreman state more than once ,that no one hit him as hard as COoney.

[anarci]

To go off topic for a moment, I never quite understood why Holmes said " Shavers hit me harder than Tyson " or something to that effect. If Shavers hit him harder, then how come he kept falling like a sack of rocks when Tyson connected? :lol:


Well easily explained...Cuz Tyson had the skills to follow up and finish what he started.. He was a better combonation puncher and faster than ERnie....Dont mean he hit harder for one shot.

As years went on Holmes always said Shavers hit the hardest...But i distinctively remember him saying after the Tyosn loss. THat SHavers was the harder puncher and Tyson the sharper puncher.. Im guessing that was the most honest answer, he never seemed to like Tyson and always reluctant on giving him his due.

[I like Boxing]

Marciano doesnt come close in power compared to Tyson, Lewis, Shavers, so get over yourself Marciano was a cruiserweight and these guys were heavyweights and Holmes once said Butterbean puncher harder than Tyson so he isnt consistent either.

[I like Boxing]

I think Ron Lyles power is overrated to a extent like somebody already stated. Foreman was knocked down 4 times in a 6 fight timr period and then not get down the rest if his career

[MagnaNasakki]

Tyson's power is often overrated. Most opponents he fought, if you read Facing Tyson, didn't rate it like one would think.

His speed and finishing ability can actually be underrated by some. This is what really made Tyson lethal- Top 5 heavyweight handspeed, excellent combination driven offense, finishing ability, and the skills to use it all.

If a prime Mike Tyson drops you, he's probably going to finish you when(if) you get up.

Shavers still hit much harder shot for shot. He just wasn't as good a boxer.

[anarci]

I think Ron Lyles power is overrated to a extent like somebody already stated. Foreman was knocked down 4 times in a 6 fight timr period and then not get down the rest if his career

Agreed i think he just caught Foreman on the button... just one of those things, either Foremans chin improved as an old man (never really saw him hurt again just rattled) .. OR Lyle hit him on the with that picture shot...

Dont get me wrong Lyle was a puncher but, there were quite a few mediocre guys who hung with him.,,,

Cooney is an underrated puncher and in my opinion(especailly early rounds) .. One of the hardest punchers ever at heavy... Jerry Quarry is another guy who sparred alot with a young Cooney when making a comeback (or contemplating) He said Cooney punches were scary hard and thed never been hit like that. ..

Old George had one of the best chins of his era.. Remember he was slower and took some big shots from big punchers ( Cooney,Morrison,Stewart,Briggs) and without being really hurt....Because Old George held his own, people forget the bombs and he soaked up from Holy.,.One of the greatest chins from a HW champ, maybe best among the great ones(except ALi).... Ali, Young Fatigue ..Lyle(hit just right)

[anarci]

Tyson's power is often overrated. Most opponents he fought, if you read Facing Tyson, didn't rate it like one would think.

His speed and finishing ability can actually be underrated by some. This is what really made Tyson lethal- Top 5 heavyweight handspeed, excellent combination driven offense, finishing ability, and the skills to use it all.

If a prime Mike Tyson drops you, he's probably going to finish you when(if) you get up.

Shavers still hit much harder shot for shot. He just wasn't as good a boxer.
You were a hw boxer and sparred with top pros right? Ever spar with Tyson? Who was the hardest puncher you mixed it up with?

[Bill1234]

Tyson's power is often overrated. Most opponents he fought, if you read Facing Tyson, didn't rate it like one would think.

His speed and finishing ability can actually be underrated by some. This is what really made Tyson lethal- Top 5 heavyweight handspeed, excellent combination driven offense, finishing ability, and the skills to use it all.

If a prime Mike Tyson drops you, he's probably going to finish you when(if) you get up.

Shavers still hit much harder shot for shot. He just wasn't as good a boxer.

I agree, if you gave Tyson Shavers's punching technique and speed, he'd have less knockouts than Earnie. People wouldn't be claiming he was the hardest puncher of all time like some people do now.