What if... Hagler VS Leonard II [Archive]

TBooze

07-06-2007, 08:48 AM

What would've happened if this fight ever occurred? I believe there is a big "?" on the outcome of the 1st fight as there is on Tito VS DLH...

I'd say Hagler would've won the 2nd fight... what's your take?

Both would of only fought it, if they felt they could win. My feeling (sadly) is Leonard by less controversial WS12

Hadrian

07-06-2007, 08:50 AM

don't know..to be honest I think they wer both well past their best for no. 1. Hagler was not as fearsome as hard coming forward and seemed to have slowed down from mugabi forward. Leonard was also well past his lightening quick, full of brash vigor self of Duran and hearns 1. Perhaps the more interesting question for me is what about Hagler Leonard 5 years earier?

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 08:54 AM

Both would of only fought it, if they felt they could win. My feeling (sadly) is Leonard by less controversial WS12

Leonard was awarded the decision, yet I've watched the fight dozens of times and still see Hagler manhandling him at will... I thing Hagler would've KO'd Leonard late in a 2nd fight... However he was so frustrated with the judges' decision that, sadly for MW boxing, he retired definitely.

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 08:55 AM

In their prime... Who would've won?

TBooze

07-06-2007, 08:57 AM

In their prime... Who would've won?

Leonard peaked in 81 at 147lbs, Hagler at 160 in 77, it would be an easy Hagler win TKO15

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 09:01 AM

So in an all time P4P ranking list... who would you place above the other?

TBooze

07-06-2007, 09:02 AM

So in an all time P4P ranking list... who would you place above the other?

Leonard at #13; Hagler at #30

My dinner with Conteh

07-06-2007, 09:06 AM

Leonard wide UD. Hagler didn't have too much left around that time.

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 09:07 AM

Leonard at #13; Hagler at #30

But in their prime you said Hagler would have beaten Leonard... How do you rate ATG's and P4P then if not facing them against each other, in their prime, regardless of weight class, skill vs skill and style vs style?

Do you base on resumes or greatest accomplishment?

TBooze

07-06-2007, 09:11 AM

But in their prime you said Hagler would have beaten Leonard... How do you rate ATG's and P4P then if not facing them against each other, in their prime, regardless of weight class, skill vs skill and style vs style?

Do you base on resumes or greatest accomplishment?

Well in that case I take a 250lbs Lewis to beat my all time #1 Ray Robinson.

Greatness is about achievement, quality of opposition and intangables like redemption.

fists of fury

07-06-2007, 09:12 AM

Marv was perfect in rematches and I think he would have taken the rematch, slower reflexes and all.
He virtually gave away the first four or so rounds to Leonard and I doubt Hagler would make the same mistake in the rematch. He would come in hell-bent on revenge and hungrier than ever.
I also think you'd see a Hagler determined to not let the judges decide the winner.
That said, Ol' Sugar Ray wouls still be a tough cookie to beat, and Hagler may get a little to enthusiastic and allow Ray better countering opportunities.
I see a close fight, but one where Hagler's determination and desire is stronger.
Hagler UD.

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 09:17 AM

TBooze

07-06-2007, 09:17 AM

Marv was perfect in rematches

Another Sugar Ray may disagree...

fists of fury

07-06-2007, 09:33 AM

He won all his rematches is what I mean.

TBooze

07-06-2007, 09:38 AM

He won all his rematches is what I mean.

And I mean another Sugar Ray may disagree with the above statement;)

fists of fury

07-06-2007, 09:46 AM

Robinson? Possibly...but what does that have to do with the topic?

redrooster

07-06-2007, 09:48 AM

I meant if you could match them, proportionally speaking, against each other. Say... as if Lewis would fight SRR both being MW or HW respectively... A HW fighter with SRR's speed, style and power against Lewis or vice-versa... The same with Leonard VS Hagler...

But if it's based on resumes and achievements I obviously take Leonard over Hagler... As well as have SRR at all time # 1...

hagler was a much better fighter p4p. Even on Leonard's best days, there's just not much there to speak of. Leonard struggled with kalule, Howard, Hearns both times, lost to Duran, the long overdue fight with Hagler was inconclusive, and he lost badly to Norris which, he wasn't even supposed to lose.

P4P Hagler is top ten. Leonard is only top 50. I can think of so many fighters of his generation who were so much more deserving.

GazOC

07-06-2007, 09:50 AM

I had Leonard winning the first fight, mainly due to Haglers lack of urgency during the first 4 rounds. I think in a re-match Hagler would apply the pressure earlier and get a decision or very late TKO.

TBooze

07-06-2007, 09:52 AM

Robinson? Possibly...but what does that have to do with the topic?

No not Robinson;)

Holmes' Jab

07-06-2007, 09:52 AM

SRL, by UD.

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 09:56 AM

No not Robinson;)

If you mean Seales... hagler won the first... The re-match was a Draw... but Hagler won all the his rematches (meaning he lost the first fight)... However he TKO'd Seales in their third fight... Impressed?

TBooze

07-06-2007, 09:57 AM

If you mean Seales... hagler won the first... The re-match was a Draw... but Hagler won all the his rematches (meaning he lost the first fight)... However he TKO'd Seales in their third fight... Impressed?
Impressed;)

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 09:58 AM

Impressed;)

Hey, I'm young but I do know my history...

GazOC

07-06-2007, 10:01 AM

Seales was pretty much blind at the time....

TBooze

07-06-2007, 10:02 AM

Hey, I'm young but I do know my history...

Right then...

Here is one then history man

Who is the only fighter to beat and lose a fight to Rocky Marciano?

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 10:16 AM

Right then...

Here is one then history man

Who is the only fighter to beat and lose a fight to Rocky Marciano?

That's a good one! See when Rocky died, I wasn't even born. In fact, my parents were still in junior highschool... I'll take a guess and say... hmm... Lee Savold??

TBooze

07-06-2007, 10:24 AM

That's a good one! See when Rocky died, I wasn't even born. In fact, my parents were still in junior highschool... I'll take a guess and say... hmm... Lee Savold??

I was not born either! But no it was not Savold...

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 11:03 AM

I was not born either! But no it was not Savold...

Well, do you mean as a amateur or as a Pro??

rekcutnevets

07-06-2007, 11:06 AM

I'd go with Hagler by decision. Ray had problems with Hagler as a southpaw, and at times when Hagler attacked him. I think Hagler would see his mistakes on film, correct them, and win the rematch.

I believe Hagler was a little passive at first, as larger fighters sometimes are. Sometimes the bigger guy looks like he has some kind of attitude suggesting he should be winning because he is bigger. Holmes looked similar in this regard when he first faced Spinks. In Holmes, and Haglers, cases; they threw away to many rounds smiling and not fighting their best.

TBooze

07-06-2007, 11:10 AM

Well, do you mean as a amateur or as a Pro??

Well it depends how you look at it...

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 11:15 AM

Well it depends how you look at it...

Professionally, he retired undefeated... would you tell me already? :patsch

TBooze

07-06-2007, 11:20 AM

Professionally, he retired undefeated... would you tell me already? :patsch

Coley Wallace

Boricua - TLH

07-06-2007, 11:32 AM

Coley Wallace

That was an amateur fight... Golden Gloves East championship or whatever... He lost a DQ once also for kneeing a guy in the stomach... UFC didn't exist back then... I thought you were fooling with a legend man... re-writing history or something!
:deal

Nemesis

07-06-2007, 11:53 AM

Hey, I'm young but I do know my history...

Okay!

Who was the only fighter to win titles from bantamweight to heavyweight?

*hint* these titles can be national / continental / World titles

TBooze

07-06-2007, 01:45 PM

That was an amateur fight... Golden Gloves East championship or whatever... He lost a DQ once also for kneeing a guy in the stomach... UFC didn't exist back then... I thought you were fooling with a legend man... re-writing history or something!
:deal

Wallace beat Marciano, but how did Marciano beat Wallace?

achillesthegreat

07-06-2007, 01:59 PM

Totally depends. I think Hagler would try to force the fight even more and then his natural size would be telling. Would the ring be smaller, would it be 15 rounds?

Hagler not having much left is a total and utter joke. Hagler and Leonard performed magnificently. Both were past their primes but coming out with sensational stuff. Does a finished fighter come out with leaping jabs that display agility, fluidity, sense of range, timing and overall sharpness! I highly doubt it. The fact both had more in reserve and a 6th gear down the stretch show they were not shot or finished.

Ultimately I think Hagler would win but I THINK that. I KNOW Leonard beat him on the night. He rose to the occassion and he performed.

Leonard made no secret of what he would do. He toured the chat show circuit continously having interviews. The same question was asked over and over - what the fuck are you doing, you are fighting an animal! Leonard always said I'm not going to go for the ko, I know he is the bigger man. I am going to box him, use my speed, use my skill and take home the deicison. Hagler not cutting off the ring, turning the heat up quicker etc are all his fault and shows a lack of intelligence on his part. That sort of simplicity should have been etched in his mental gameplan as soon as the fight was announced.

TBooze

07-06-2007, 02:48 PM

Okay!

Who was the only fighter to win titles from bantamweight to heavyweight?

*hint* these titles can be national / continental / World titles

Carpentier claimed titles (national) in all the classic eight, and won European titles at Lightweight though to Heavy; as well as World titles at Middle, Light Heavy and Heavy.

Nemesis

07-06-2007, 03:32 PM

Carpentier claimed titles (national) in all the classic eight, and won European titles at Lightweight though to Heavy; as well as World titles at Middle, Light Heavy and Heavy.
:D
I knew you knew it, I was asking Einstein

PS Actually i think it was you told me about it in the first place :lol:

GazOC

07-06-2007, 06:31 PM

oOkay!

Who was the only fighter to win titles from bantamweight to heavyweight?

*hint* these titles can be national / continental / World titles
Did he fight Jack Dempsey?

EDIT: Sorry I missed Boozes post. It was an easy question though....;O)

TBooze

07-06-2007, 07:04 PM

:D
I knew you knew it, I was asking Einstein

PS Actually i think it was you told me about it in the first place :lol:

Well come on play fair, a youngster in Boricua -TLH with his respect and indeed knowledge of the history of this great sport should be acknowledged and nurtured IMO.

mcvey

07-06-2007, 07:04 PM

What would've happened if this fight ever occurred? I believe there is a big "?" on the outcome of the 1st fight as there is on Tito VS DLH...

I'd say Hagler would've won the 2nd fight... what's your take?
Id go with Leonard by close dec,I thought he just won the fight ,but it was so close all the furore mystified me,you could have given it either way imo.

mcvey

07-06-2007, 07:06 PM

Id go with Leonard by close dec,I thought he just won the fight ,but it was so close all the furore mystified me,you could have given it either way imo.This fight showed that Marvin had slipped significantly ,something that SRL had spotted,thats my take on it,Ithought Haglers corner were way too laid back as well.

enquirer

07-07-2007, 11:29 AM

A fight between hagler and leonard in their primes would have been a great battle...Leonard would have had more speed and stamina as would marvin...I think the first fight is an accurate indication of what would have happened. Over 15 rounds and in their primes i guess that ray narrowly outpoints Marvin in one of the greatest battles in ring history,Rays speed being the main deciding factor.....Just shows how great ray is to compete with one of the greatest middles of all time while being two divisions up from his natural and best weight...

Boricua - TLH

07-09-2007, 03:02 PM

Well come on play fair, a youngster in Boricua -TLH with his respect and indeed knowledge of the history of this great sport should be acknowledged and nurtured IMO.

Thank you Tbooze... I bet if I were born 10 years earlier I would've been able to answer the question. Believe me this is a boxing fact I will never forget.

Nemesis, I will look for a good trivia for you in a future forum!!

Nemesis

07-09-2007, 03:09 PM

Thank you Tbooze... I bet if I were born 10 years earlier I would've been able to answer the question. Believe me this is a boxing fact I will never forget.

Nemesis, I will look for a good trivia for you in a future forum!!

No worries mate, i wasnt taking the mickey, I wouldnt have known the answer a year ago, until Tbooze originally brought it to my attention :good

Duodenum

07-09-2007, 04:30 PM

Okay!

Who was the only fighter to win titles from bantamweight to heavyweight?

*hint* these titles can be national / continental / World titlesI was thinking that Carpentier was too obvious, but when I thought of Len Harvey, he "only" went from from the BBB of C WW Title to the HW Championship, although Len started his career weighing considerably less than the WW limit.