What are your strangest boxing opinions?

[cross_trainer]

We often come to a consensus here at the Classic forum. Everyone and their grandmother rates Louis and Ali as #1 and #2, for example. But each of us also has opinions that are...shall we say...out of the ordinary. Whether it's Duran's deadly stomach cramps or Frank Bruno's place in history, there are some issues where new opinions are always popping up.

So, let's hear your weird, wild, or just plain different opinions on boxing.

[Icemmann]

Holyfield is the best heavyweight in history, when on top of his game.




Nobody can withstand his ferocious headbutting ability.

[Nemesis]

Firstly; I feel Hatton has the right tools to beat PBF (@ 140).

secondly; I think Robinson could've beaten Moore in their mooted 1954-55 clash at LHW*

* As Robinson grew into the Middleweight division, so did his punch resistance, can anyone name one occaision when he was on the queer street at middle

[UpWithEvil]

Primo Carnera was a very good heavyweight, and could hold an alphabet title today.

[cross_trainer]

A few of mine:

* Boxing skill is not as important as many think, if you have a combination of natural talent and a lot of practice. Even guys like Hamed and Mayorga have managed to reach the top contender and champion positions of the sport with very unconventional or nonexistent boxing skill.

* Supermiddleweights and lightheavies could compete with modern heavyweights if both had to use smaller gloves.

* The 1970's were not a "golden age" for the heavyweight division, and Foreman is not an ATG on the same order as Ali, Louis, Dempsey, etc.

* Max Schmeling belongs in the top 10 heavyweights of all time.

* The bareknuckle era is more realistic than the Queensberry Rules period.

* Corbett would beat most ATG heavyweights under early Queensberry conditions.

[Luigi1985]

Primo Carnera was a very good heavyweight, and could hold an alphabet title today.


UpWithEvil is a very good poster and an enrichment for the Classic Boxing Forum on ESB...

[JohnThomas1]

Suprer Greg Page would have had a good chance of upsetting Holmes

Hopkins would have had a great chance vs Jones when he hit his straps

Hagler's stiffness when confronted with speedy boxers and/or adverse conditions would give him severe trouble and he is slightly overrated

Fenech head to head easily makes the top 7 from Bantam to Feather

Pryor is overrated pertaining to accomplishment

Mugabi is overrated full stop

Whitaker is a chance of being the best 135 ever

Fenech would have smothered the great Gomez

Eddie Mustafa could have been top 5 175 ever

[UpWithEvil]

UpWithEvil is a very good poster and an enrichment for the Classic Boxing Forum on ESB...

But that's a prefectly mainstream opinion! :D

[C. M. Clay II]

UpWithEvil is a very good poster and an enrichment for the Classic Boxing Forum on ESB...

Of course he is:rolleyes:







Rocky Marciano is p4p the #1 boxer of all-time!

So now I guess that makes me the best poster on East Side Forums, right?:rofl

[cross_trainer]

Of course he is:rolleyes:







Rocky Marciano is p4p the #1 boxer of all-time!

So now I guess that makes me the best boster on East Side Forums, right?:rofl

But in all seriousness, he is a good poster. :D

[C. M. Clay II]

I suppose a strange opinion of mine is that I think if Ali wasn't exiled from boxing for those 3½ years, he would have never lost, provided he not make that comeback and fight Larry Holmes.

[Luigi1985]

Of course he is:rolleyes:







Rocky Marciano is p4p the #1 boxer of all-time!

So now I guess that makes me the best boster on East Side Forums, right?:rofl


Yeah, you´re the best boster here!

[C. M. Clay II]

But in all seriousness, he is a good poster. :D

I'm not saying he isn't, just that Luigi hailed him as such solely because UpWithEvil said something positive about Primo Carnera, who Luigi loves.

[cross_trainer]

I suppose a strange opinion of mine is that I think if Ali wasn't exiled from boxing for those 3½ years, he would have never lost, provided he not make that comeback and fight Larry Holmes.

I believe that in many cases boxers are better after a layoff, since they have a couple years to recuperate from attrition. He may not have been quite as sharp, but I feel that Ali was almost as good as he ever was during his fight with Frazier.

Without the layoff, he probably would have been worn down to an even greater degree than he actually was when he faced Frazier the first time, and would have lost more decisively.

(And the above, incidentally, is an unorthodox opinion as well).

[doublesuited]

Riddick Bowe could knock out Sam Langford, Jack Dempsey, and Rocky Marciano...

... all on the same night.

[cross_trainer]

Yeah, you´re the best boster here!

:lol:

[C. M. Clay II]

Yeah, you´re the best boster here!

Har har har, de har har!:tong

[Luigi1985]

I'm not saying he isn't, just that Luigi hailed him as such solely because UpWithEvil said something positive about Primo Carnera, who Luigi loves.


I don´t love the dead Carnera, I´m not warped and not homosexual...


I just don´t like it when some little posters here don´t respect former champions, Carnera would surely beat the likes of Ibragimov, Briggs, etc...

[The Kurgan]

- Lennox Lewis is the third greatest heavyweight of all time.

- Winky Wright is the best boxer in the world p4p at the moment.

- Mugabi-Hagler wasn't the superfight it's made out to be.

- Michael Spinks is overrated.

- Jack Johnson is overrated.

- Primo Carnera was not a bum.

- In fact, the whole 1930s is a grossly underrated era.

- George Foreman would get slaughtered for his opposition if he was white and/or European.

- Wlad is the more accomplished and more able of the Klitschko brothers.

[C. M. Clay II]

I believe that in many cases boxers are better after a layoff, since they have a couple years to recuperate from attrition. He may not have been quite as sharp, but I feel that Ali was almost as good as he ever was during his fight with Frazier.

Without the layoff, he probably would have been worn down to an even greater degree than he actually was when he faced Frazier the first time, and would have lost more decisively.

(And the above, incidentally, is an unorthodox opinion as well).

I beg to differ. Ali's style was a defensive style that would allow for great longevity, so activity would actually help him. Ali wasn't in any wars before the layoff (unless if you want to call the Chuvalo fight a war), and he was actually getting better and better in terms of tightening-up his defense, and increasing his punching power. The layoff took something out of him that he would never get back, and he had clearly lost a step by the time he fought Frazier.

[mcvey]

We often come to a consensus here at the Classic forum. Everyone and their grandmother rates Louis and Ali as #1 and #2, for example. But each of us also has opinions that are...shall we say...out of the ordinary. Whether it's Duran's deadly stomach cramps or Frank Bruno's place in history, there are some issues where new opinions are always popping up.

So, let's hear your weird, wild, or just plain different opinions on boxing.
Rating the Heavies, ALI
JOHNSON
DEMPSEY
LOUIS
LIGHTWEIGHTS
LEONARD
GANS
WILLIAMS
DURAN
Plus Jimmy Wilde no 1 at fly

[C. M. Clay II]

I just don´t like it when some little posters here don´t respect former champions, Carnera would surely beat the likes of Ibragimov, Briggs, etc...

Possibly, but still I think you make Carnera out to be better than he really is.

[UpWithEvil]

Possibly, but still I think you make Carnera out to be better than he really is.

I think the more significant point is that Carnera was better than history had traditionally credited him with being.

[doublesuited]

Carnera was a lumbering oaf of a boxer.

[Luigi1985]

Possibly, but still I think you make Carnera out to be better than he really is.


I don´t say he was great, but for some here it would be better at first to watch some other fights from Primo (not only against Baer and Sharkey at youtube) and than make a evaluation about him. He was a very good fighter, a Top 50 fighter and would beat most of today HW´s...

[Luigi1985]

Carnera was a lumbering oaf of a boxer.


Welcome back forum clown! Any other jokes you have for us?

[doublesuited]

Welcome back forum clown! Any other jokes you have for us?The only joke around here is the reflection of the cracking mirror as you walk past it.

[Luigi1985]

The only joke around here is the reflection of the cracking mirror as you walk past it.

Yeah, give me some more of your learnt by heart- verdicts...

[Thread Stealer]

Pryor is overrated pertaining to accomplishment


Agreed.


Mugabi-Hagler wasn't the superfight it's made out to be.


I agree. Well, it wasn't the non-stop two way war that it's often made out to be. The 6th round was great, and Mugabi landed some good shots in the fight, but Hagler more or less whupped Mugabi and used his head as target practice with his jab.


Wlad is the more accomplished and more able of the Klitschko brothers.

Yeah, I think Wlad will go down with the better accomplishments. He will have more quality wins, if he doesn't already.

[garymcfall]

Joe Louis would be beaten by :

Ali
Foreman
Lewis
Tyson
Holmes

with RELATIVE EASE.

[chrisroxthem]

my top three heavyweight list is

1. rocky marciano
2. larry holmes
3. ali

most people find that very strange

[Sam Dixon]

I suppose a strange opinion of mine is that I think if Ali wasn't exiled from boxing for those 3½ years, he would have never lost, provided he not make that comeback and fight Larry Holmes.

:roll:

:hi:

[Luigi1985]

:roll:

:hi:


Well, you must know, for Clay II Ali was/ is/ will be always Batman, Superman, He-Man, Spiderman, etc. all in one person!!!!

[doublesuited]

my top three heavyweight list is

1. rocky marciano
2. larry holmes
3. ali

most people find that very strange More retarded than strange.

[Robbi]

Juan Manuel Marquez and Bernard Hopkins are the technically the best in the business today.

Larry Holmes was the most complete heavyweight of all time.

Buster Douglas would have defeated the Tyson of 1986-1988.

With all the safety measures monitoring fighters weights these days, 15 round championship fights should be given a 12 month trial period.

All three judges should score major championship fights watching on TV monitors in booths away from the event itself. This would give each judge the exact same view of the fight, from a wide variety of angles. Obviously no commentary or replays are allowed. Ropes are a constant distraction to a judges view. The only problem would be reliablity, as TV black outs could occur.

All boxers should wear red gloves.

[Sam Dixon]

Well, you must know, for Clay II Ali was/ is/ will be always Batman, Superman, He-Man, Spiderman, etc. all in one person!!!!

LOL.

Oh, I'm quite aware of Butterfly's fondness for Mr. Ali, Luigi, and maybe even overly so, as he about flooded us with Ali threads/talk on the last site we were on together.

That little roll of the eyes smilie is a long running inside joke between me and him actually.

[Thread Stealer]

Barrera won all 3 fights against Morales.

[Jack]

Wladimir Klitschko would beat: Joe Louis, Larry Holmes, Rocky Marciano and Evander Holyfield.

Winky Wright is a top 10 middlewieght, head to head. I think he would beat Carlos Monzon and prime Bernard Hopkins. I think age has been unkind to him though and I wouldn't be suprised to see Hopkins, who has aged very well, beat him.

Jake LaMotta was nothing more than a crude tough guy. I don't hae him in my top 15 at middleweight. Many fast, agile boxers would do a number on him.

Marcel Cerdan would have anything like the record he ended up with, if he had fought in America througout his career. His record makes JCC's look...good.

Wladimir Klitschko has the greatest offensive skills of any heavyweight, except Joe Louis.

Bob Fitzsimmons would not be ranked in the top 20 of any division from 160 to heavyweight in 2007.

[apollack]

Jack Johnson is the most overrated heavyweight ever. If he were fighting today, almost no one would want to pay to see him fight, except those who like slow, dull, boring, defensive fights with single punches at a time thrown, lots of clinching, and only occasional combination spurts.

[Jack]

*BHop has faced competion marginally better than Calzaghe. He gets passes for this that no European fighter would get. Robert Allen, Robert Allen, Robert fuckin Allen...I agree. The best fighters on his resume were, what, 15lbs under his weight? Considering how Tito and De La Hoya struggled against mediore opposition at that eight, him beating them is not a big achievement. Beating Tarver was impressive, but then again, it's Tarver. A man who struggled to make weight, been away from boxing for a long time, and made his name knocking out an old Jones Jr..

He lost fairly to Jermain Taylor, who himself struggled more with Cory Spinks. A welterweight.

When you break it down, Hopkins' record is very poor.

[Luigi1985]

I agree. The best fighters on his resume were, what, 15lbs under his weight? Considering how Tito and De La Hoya struggled against mediore opposition at that eight, him beating them is not a big achievement.

He lost fairly to Jermain Taylor, who himself struggled more with Cory Spinks. A welterweight.

When you break it down, Hopkins' record is very poor.


Completely agreed, Jack!

[rekcutnevets]

I do rank Ali #1 at heavyweight, but I think Lennox Lewis would beat the 70's version.

I really do think that Mike Tyson was mad at the headbutts in his fight with Holyfield, and it did make him snap.

I think that Larry Donald may have been able to beat a peak Holyfield, it's a style thing.

I believe Oscar was the true villain of the Mayorga fight. He picked someone with the intent of looking like the good guy, while fighting someone he knew was inferior technique wise.

I don't think George Foremam was ever really a bad guy, and he is now super nice. He was never mean, he just smiles more now.

I thought that Hamed deserved to be the#1 Featherweight when he was winning, and did pick Barrera against him. That is not the strange one. I thought "Smoke" Gainer would have beaten him too.

Jack Dempsey shouldn't be awarded a top 10 all time spot, because he never fought Harry Wills. This fight was more important than usual, because of the fact you had the best white heavyweight and the best black heavyweight in the world. The only way to find out who the best heavyweight was for them to fight each other. I know the fight not happening may not have been the fighter's faults, but I can't reward them with a top 10 placement since it didn't happen.

[Robbi]

I agree. The best fighters on his resume were, what, 15lbs under his weight? Considering how Tito and De La Hoya struggled against mediore opposition at that eight, him beating them is not a big achievement. Beating Tarver was impressive, but then again, it's Tarver. A man who struggled to make weight, been away from boxing for a long time, and made his name knocking out an old Jones Jr..

He lost fairly to Jermain Taylor, who himself struggled more with Cory Spinks. A welterweight.

When you break it down, Hopkins' record is very poor.

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing. Hopkins was not given a prayer against Tarver, and many even had him marked down for the first knockout loss of his career. Credit must got to Hopkins for moving up two divisions. Tarver is now viewed as an overated fighter, but only after Hopkins dominated him over 12 rounds. The same applies to Calzaghe's win over Lacy. Prior to fighting Hopkins, Trinidad blasted out Joppy inside 5 rounds, and your not going to tell me Joppy wasn't a big player in the middleweight division up until he got his ass handed to him that night.

If Hopkins record is way over the top, what about Hagler's?. His biggest win during the first 5 years of his reign at 160lbs was is points win over Duran, who was 25lbs above his prime weight. Sibson, Caveman Lee, Hamsho, etc. Solid wins, but hardly anything you would call unforgettable.

[Sizzle]

I totally agree. A good argument can be made for Hop being a top 10 middle. A good one. Not a certain one. Anything higher, I can't buy into. He lost against the best 2 middles he faced and his biggest wins are against dwarves. Ignore the hype of Oscar and Tito (mW-wise) and Calzaghe's record stacks up perfectly well against him. Look at Taylor now - Lacy was to Calzaghe what Taylor was to Hop.

I want some of what you're smoking.

[joe33]

Riddick Bowe could knock out Sam Langford, Jack Dempsey, and Rocky Marciano...

... all on the same night.


.....................but he could not KO Golota in 2 WHOLE FIGHTS haha

[TBooze]

There will one day be a Heavyweight Champion of the World once more

World championship Fights will be up to 15 rounds again

Boxing can redeem itself, from the massive hole it is in.

[rekcutnevets]

John David Jackson was not a small guy. He dropped to 154 in his career, but was normally a middleweight.

Glenn Johnson, Antwun Echols, William Joppy, Howard Eastman are not small guys.

That is if you are just talking middleweight. Arguably, and literally, his biggest win came at light heavyweight.

[Robbi]

Why? Hop DID lose to the 2 best middles he fought. His best wins were against smaller guys. Whats the problem with those 2 statements?


You might ask what has Hagler got to do with Hopkins' achivements. But I'm going to make a comparison. Although Leonard holds superiority over Taylor when taking into account ring smarts and skill, he was much smaller physically. I would even say Wright is naturally bigger than Leonard. Hagler's best wins were all against fighters moving up in weight, and Leonard defeated him lets not forget. Duran is without question the smallest guy Hopkins and Hagler ever fought throughout their careers. He stood at 5'7" with a 67" reach. And Hearns' challenge to Hagler is comparable to Trinidad going up against Hopkins.

[Stonehands89]

* the LW with the best chance of beating Duran was ... Shane Mosely.

* Frazier would have beaten Ali in 1966 or 1967/Frazier may well have beaten Ali in II and III if Mercante was the ref.

* I favor 1959 Sonny Liston over the most HW champions... therefore he is the most formidable HW, head-to-head.

[Titan1]

Don King protected Michael Dokes througout his career.

Edwin Rosario would've beaten Salvador Sanchez

Howard Davis Jr., despite his liabilities, would have won 140 belt had he tried hard enough.

[Thread Stealer]

Why? Hop DID lose to the 2 best middles he fought. His best wins were against smaller guys. Whats the problem with those 2 statements?

I don't rank the De La Hoya win all that high for Hopkins. I rank the Tarver win better than that, as well as probably some others.

At least Tito had just destroyed the 2nd best middleweight in the world before Hopkins schooled him. Oscar had gotten a gift against a guy in the middle of the top 10. I would pick the Tito of 2001 to beat Jermaine Taylor.

[Thread Stealer]

I believe Oscar was the true villain of the Mayorga fight. He picked someone with the intent of looking like the good guy, while fighting someone he knew was inferior technique wise.

I don't think George Foremam was ever really a bad guy, and he is now super nice. He was never mean, he just smiles more now.

Both Oscar and George do the smiling for the cameras part very well.

I don't think Foreman was as bad as he was often viewed in the 70s, but he's also not as nice and good as he has portrayed himself to be in his 2nd career.

Actually, I think Foreman is just one strange, bizarre individual.

[My dinner with Conteh]

I think both Ali-Spinks fights were fixed.
I think if Jones and Hopkins met on their best night, Jones would have won on a shut out.
Robinson is a bit overrated at middleweight. His 160 reign is not that dissimilar to, say, Holyfield's heavyweight era.

[garymcfall]

I think both Ali-Spinks fights were fixed.

thats quite an interesting one why do you think this?

[doublesuited]

.....................but he could not KO Golota in 2 WHOLE FIGHTS hahaBowe was way past it by then. The whole world saw what a prime and motivated Bowe did to Holyfield. Demolished him. No contest.

Bowe would make Marciano his girlfriend, Dempsey his wife, and Langford his mistress on the same night.

[My dinner with Conteh]

thats quite an interesting one why do you think this?


Around this time Ali either thought (or knew) he probably couldn't beat Norton or even Young. The 'one more fight then I'll finally face my mandatory' (which he hadn't done since 1975). It was set up against a no hoper like Spinks- an embarrassing performance resulted in a rematch that was breaking box office records and injected life into the Ali machine, which was growing stale. The 3-time thing was probably worth losing a fight for.


I know many will disagree but the funny thing is, as hardcore boxing fans go, I probably think there's been more fixes than most others would. The "hey wouldn't it be great if So and So won because he's such a box office attraction and the game will die if he lost....Oops he's won!!!" This just happens a bit too often sometimes. By the way, that sentence isn't aimed at Ali, who was fantastic, but those two fights always make me wonder.


ps. I could be wrong on every suspicion...I always thought Leonard-Hagler was fixed until I realised how bitter Marvin was. I remember a poster on here, it could have been Stonehands or Janitor, saying in that fight he thought "Hagler looked like the fall guy in a fix". That's exactly what I thought when I first watched it. It seems I was wrong on that one...maybe. ;)

[My dinner with Conteh]

Bowe was way past it by then. The whole world saw what a prime and motivated Bowe did to Holyfield. Demolished him. No contest.

Bowe would make Marciano his girlfriend, Dempsey his wife, and Langford his mistress on the same night.


Wow, Bowe lasted just one fight in his prime. He must have been amazing. :yikes

[Swedish81]

Buster Douglas was potentially a top 10 heavyweight of all time.

[doublesuited]

Wow, Bowe lasted just one fight in his prime. He must have been amazing. :yikes He was. He would've cleaned out any other division in history other than the 70's. If Sonny Liston thought that he could bully around fighters and intimidate them, let's see him try it on Big Daddy.

Bowe would make Liston crumble.

[BOGART]

I had Morales winning 2 of 3 against Barerra

Boxing, today, is not in as bad of shape as many make it out to be

Ali would have always beaten Foreman

[ironchamp]

My Strange Thoughts.

-SRR is overrated at MW.
-Mike Tyson by 1995 would have held wins over Lewis, Bowe and Holyfield had he not gone to prison.
-Larry Holmes would have beaten George Foreman in the 70s 80s and 90s.
-Vitaly Klitschko is lucky to have had the fight stopped when it was before Lewis got a chance to pull out a more decisive win which would have damaged his rep.
-The 90s had a deeper HW division than the 70s.
-Antonio Tarver in no way shape or form beat Roy Jones in thier first meeting.

[Thread Stealer]

-Antonio Tarver in no way shape or form beat Roy Jones in thier first meeting.

Nothing strange at all about that one.

The general opinion is that RJJ won a close fight.

[warchild]

As many times as I watch it, I never see Jeff Fenech being robbed against Azumah Nelson in the first fight. I've watched it many times, and Fenech's shots are weak, and many of them miss or are blocked. I could even see Nelson getting a decision win.

As many times as I watch it, I never see Thomas Hearns being robbed in the rematch against Leonard. Leonard was knocked down twice, but he also alomost stopped Hearns on at least two occasions. The draw seemed fair.

As many times as I watch it, I never see Maurice Blocker beating Marlon Starling. Starling seemed to have the edge in that one.

[garymcfall]

Buster Douglas was potentially a top 10 heavyweight of all time.

hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha
hhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahaha

oh that was good, thank you.

[Swedish81]

If he had performed as good or as near as good as he did against Tyson throughout his career you wouldn't be laughing.

[Swedish81]

Originally Posted by garymcfall
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha
hhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahahaha

oh that was good, thank you.

Oh, you were only two years old when he fought Tyson. Excuse me, you probably haven't seen the fight.

[McGrain]

So, let's hear your weird, wild, or just plain different opinions on boxing.


I'm convinced I would have been light heavyweight champ of the world if I hadn't got into booze and girls. Not many agree.

Marciano isn't a top 12 HW and may not be top 15.

Morales was better than Barrera.

Johnson could step out of a time machine on Saturday, substitue for Brewster and win the title.

Burley may be the best fighter that ever boxed.

[The Kurgan]

- Vitali Klitschko won the fight, but Lennox Lewis won the event.

[Robbi]

Buster Douglas was potentially a top 10 heavyweight of all time.

After his dismantling display against Tyson inside the Tokyo dome, he could well have been, had he stayed away from the cheeseburgers. Its up for debate if he was physically conditioned against Holyfield that a win was on the cards. He certainly would have taken Holyfield into the late rounds, thats for sure. Then Bowe and Lewis would have been next in-line. Bowe had the boxing ability to match Douglas, although not the same footspeed Douglas showed against Tyson. He wasn't as good inside either.

[JohnThomas1]

I think if Jones and Hopkins met on their best night, Jones would have won on a shut out.

This is very definitely your standout choice per thread topic!

:D

[rekcutnevets]

When Douglas was in shape, he would have given Bowe all he wanted. Maybe more. Douglas could have out jabbed Bowe, and was cabable of giving him the same quick combinations Golata bothered him with. Douglas always had a tendacy to fade down the stretch. Bowe always showed some heart when hurt, and more heart than I thought he posessed in his 2nd fight with Golata.

Douglas could outpoint Bowe if he didn't fade too much, and get ko'd near the end. I have a feeling that is what would happen. Bowe by ko while down on points.

This is way off target I guess. This is not a Douglas vs. Bowe thread. I already stated by strangest opinions earlier.

[My dinner with Conteh]

This is very definitely your standout choice per thread topic!

:D



You're just upset because I haven't asked for that Scott Le Doux action you've got. :good

[Mike South]

[quote=cross_trainer]A few of mine:

* Boxing skill is not as important as many think, if you have a combination of natural talent and a lot of practice. Even guys like Hamed and Mayorga have managed to reach the top contender and champion positions of the sport with very unconventional or nonexistent boxing skill.

But did they stay there?

* The 1970's were not a "golden age" for the heavyweight division, and Foreman is not an ATG on the same order as Ali, Louis, Dempsey, etc.

I think that the 70's talent was no better than the talent today, the era was better and is remembered fondly because everybody fought everybody. Shavers looked great because he demolished Norton and knocked down Holmes who beat Norton, who beat Ali who beat Shavers who beat Lyle who gave Foreman 5 hard rounds etc. That's what was great about that era. But honestly, if a washed up, mid thirties, no legs, no punch Ali could rule that division, how great could it have been? (Remember boys this is the strangest opinions thread).

[Duodenum]

George Foreman stayed out of boxing for ten years, exclusively, to avoid having to face Larry Holmes.

Lennox Lewis might be universally considered a top ten HW, if only he wasn't British.

Roberto Duran would still be the World LW Champion, if he wasn't a glutton, and hadn't been in a career ending car wreck.

Holmes conducted himself with class and dignity after his first match with Mike Spinks.

37 year old Jack Johnson would have decisioned Jess Willard over 45 rounds in the Havana heat, if only he'd been in the kind of shape he was in for Jim Flynn and Jim Jeffries (ripped at 195 pounds), and eventually would have lost his title to Dempsey.

The Jess Willard of Havana may have outlasted the Jack Dempsey of Toledo in a 45 round match.

Wille Pep might have been able to decision SRR at 140 pounds, during WW II.

[JohnThomas1]

You're just upset because I haven't asked for that Scott Le Doux action you've got. :good

Ohhhhhhhhh i just KNOW you have it

:D

[Duodenum]

:patsch Oh well, that's what this thread is for. Can I ask how ytou think that though? Being as Pep was a FW and SRR already beat him in the amateurs.Of course, it's in the spirit of this thread that I offer this.

In the early 1940's Willie weighed over 130 for a couple bouts, while Robinson was as low as 135 for Maxie Shapiro. (Keep in mind that Henry Armstrong had also been a featherweight champion who later went the distance with Robinson, and Hank was outweighed for many of his WW Title defenses by a good deal more than SRR would have outweighed Pep by.)

Do I win for strangeness of opinion here?

[Mendoza]

What are your strangest boxing opinions?

Tyson vs Etienne was a fixed fight.

[Rubber Warrior]

Ike Ibeabuchi is so overrated it makes me cringe.

[Robbi]

Gatti v Ward I must be the most overrated fight in boxing history. The first 5 rounds were hardly exciting, with Ward advancing and throwing as good as "nothing". Gatti picked his punches well, mixing in sharp jabs with right hands. The 9th round is what you would call "great" and other rounds were very good as well. But its nowhere near, Barrera v Morales I, Pryor v Arguello 1, Castillo v Corrales I, Frazier v Ali III, etc.

It was a very good fight, but I'm amazed people rate it was one of the greatest fights in boxing history.

[Thread Stealer]

Gatti v Ward I must be the most overrated fight in boxing history. The first 5 rounds were hardly exciting, with Ward advancing and throwing as good as "nothing". Gatti picked his punches well, mixing in sharp jabs with right hands. The 9th round is what you would call "great" and other rounds were very good as well. But its nowhere near, Barrera v Morales I, Pryor v Arguello 1, Castillo v Corrales I, Frazier v Ali III, etc.

It was a very good fight, but I'm amazed people rate it was one of the greatest fights in boxing history.

I thought the first 4 rounds were fairly entertaining, the 5th was great, rounds 6-7 were fairly entertaining, round 8 was good, round 9 was classic, round 10 was alright but people were still in awe from the previous round.

I think it is mainly the trilogy that is overrated, more so than the first fight (which is not Gatti's most entertaining fight, btw, that is Robinson I) being overrated. It had one great fight, one okay one, and one good one, with just one fight that was competitive and close. Gatti won 80% of the rounds in the trilogy. The 2nd best fight of the trilogy, the rubber match, wouldn't make my top 5 list for Gatti or Ward.

Among this decade, Erik Morales alone was involved in two trilogies that were better.

[Lostmykeys]

I had Trinidad beating ODLH.

[lillarry]

Sugar Ray is a top 5 atg and would have given the other Sugar Ray a run for his money

[ajohnfp]

Riddick Bowe would beat a number of staple top ten heavyweights.

[salsanchezfan]

Pryor-Arguello I is insanely overrated. Not even the best fight of that year, let alone one of the greatest of all time. Those who say it is have bought into the hype that two exciting, all-time greats paired together has to be a great fight. A good one, but hardly great. Pryor had that one all the way. The outcome was never in question, in spite of what some myopic judges may have thought.


I also think Marciano-Walcott I was pretty run-of-the-mill. Not even as good as Pryor-Arguello. A lot of mauling, very little clean punching. I've seen at least ten heavyweight fights better than this, and heavyweights suck by definition. Therefore, this can't rank even in the top 50.

[Marvelous Marcum]

Roy Jones is the most talented boxer ever to lace up gloves.

Ali is the most overrated athlete ever. (Not that he's not amazing... but come on now.)

[Thinman]

I thought that Trinidad beat DLH, but that was when I watched the fight when it actually happend. I wanted Trinidad to win. :D

Now I think DLH beat Trinidad. :yep

Frazier would have KO Ali if he had just fought the final round.

Hearns would have defeated Hagler if he had box the same (similar) way SRL did.

[Duodenum]

Riddick Bowe would beat a number of staple top ten heavyweights.Why is your avatar Rachael Raytard?

[buzzsaw]

Boxing should go back to laces only…no tape

Before banned, Ali was the Greatest Heavyweight EVER!

If you lose your mouthpiece you, not the ref, should have to pick it up while fighting.

Larry Holmes is comparable to Joe Louis in every category.

The ring announcer’s mike should always be lowered from the ceiling (Looks Cool!)

Sugar Ray Leonard was the greatest Welter of all time.

If a fighter punches his opponent at weigh in, he should go in already losing first round.

Hagler did not beat Vito! So stop with the “He was robbed!”

Weigh-ins should be the day of the fight.

Tony Baltazar, Howard Davis Jr and Johnny Verderosa would all be champs today.

If they have to stop the fight more then once to tape up your trunks, then you should have to fight without them.

[OLD FOGEY]

Firstly; I feel Hatton has the right tools to beat PBF (@ 140).

secondly; I think Robinson could've beaten Moore in their mooted 1954-55 clash at LHW*

* As Robinson grew into the Middleweight division, so did his punch resistance, can anyone name one occaision when he was on the queer street at middle

Fullmer in 1961. Was on the ropes for about a minute without throwing
a punch.

[red cobra]

Hindsight is a wonderfull thing. Hopkins was not given a prayer against Tarver, and many even had him marked down for the first knockout loss of his career. Credit must got to Hopkins for moving up two divisions. Tarver is now viewed as an overated fighter, but only after Hopkins dominated him over 12 rounds. The same applies to Calzaghe's win over Lacy. Prior to fighting Hopkins, Trinidad blasted out Joppy inside 5 rounds, and your not going to tell me Joppy wasn't a big player in the middleweight division up until he got his ass handed to him that night.

If Hopkins record is way over the top, what about Hagler's?. His biggest win during the first 5 years of his reign at 160lbs was is points win over Duran, who was 25lbs above his prime weight. Sibson, Caveman Lee, Hamsho, etc. Solid wins, but hardly anything you would call unforgettable.
True enough, Hagler didnt look so good in struggling with Duran and Caveman Lee and some of his other challengers were nothing great, but the blowout of Hearns after taking everything he could dish out is the achievement that makes Hagler an all time great champion in my opinion. That performance alone established Hagler as an animal. Very, very impressive performance that defines the kind of will to win that all champions should have. Hopkins on the other hand is a modern day marvel, who took the measure of all of his challengers and adapted his style in a most effective and intelligent way. However, he didnt have a monster destroyer like Hearns to threaten him like Hagler did. Both were great champons, but Hagler distinguished himself a bit more than Hopkins. That much said however, I think Carlos Monzon would have beaten them both.

[Duodenum]

The ring announcer’s mike should always be lowered from the ceiling (Looks Cool!)It also picks up the sound of the action when suspended slightly above the ring.Hagler did not beat Vito! So stop with the “He was robbed!”Writer Bob Waters claimed that Vito won 11 of the 15 rounds.Weigh-ins should be the day of the fight.Not only that, but the scale should be brought into the ring so they can weigh in immediately before the contest (like Willard and Johnson did).

A really entertaining post, but I figured I'd just restrain myself to those few comments.

[groove]

I believe that in many cases boxers are better after a layoff, since they have a couple years to recuperate from attrition. He may not have been quite as sharp, but I feel that Ali was almost as good as he ever was during his fight with Frazier.


Speculation. The Ali in 1967 was getting better and improving as a fighter and then had it all taken away. THe comeback slower Ali in 1970 was a declined version. How can that be better for Ali as a fighter? You don't make sense.

[ajohnfp]

Why is your avatar Rachael Raytard?

:huh It's the joker.

[ripcity]

After bating John Ruiz Roy Jones Jr. should have fought as a Cruiserweight. it would have been less stress on his body, and he had the name recanition to atractt attition to the division.
My who beats who on their best night all-time heaveyweight looks like thus
1. Lennox Lewis 2. Mike Tyson 3. Muhammad Ali 4. :bbb Riddick Bowe:bbb 5. Joe Louis 6. Sonny Liston 7. Vitali Klitschko 8. Jack Johnson 9. Wladimir Klitschko 10. Jack Dempsey tie with Rocky Marciano.

Primo Carnera and Nikolay Valuev are better rhan given credt for.

Going from 15 to 12 rounds was a good idea. (most boxing related brain damage is from taking blows over a long period of time, and not one or two big shots.)

Today's top 10 heaveyweights would do a lot better in any past eara than most people think.

Marco Antonio Barrera is the best Pound4Pound boxer of all-time from Mexico.

Sugar Ray Leonard realy did beat Marvin Hagler.
:rasta :good :bbb

[Sonny's jab]

Against the grain of the overall consensus, I believe Joe Frazier of 1968 - '71 would stand a decent chance of beating a prime George Foreman.

[JohnThomas1]

True enough, Hagler didnt look so good in struggling with Duran and Caveman Lee

Hagler wiped out Lee in about 67 seconds, from memory finishing him with a scorching jab hybrid. This was the fight that convinced Steward to pull Hearns out of the Hagler fight and wait a few years for Tommy to grow and mature more. I think you might be mixed up with another fight, but to be honest Hagler really didn't have any poor performances around this time.

[Vantage_West]

*Johnny Nelson was good to watch.



nelson - de leon is possibly the most boring fight recorded

nelson doing south pacific crab impressions (with his arms up to his face circuling carlos for the first few round until he couldnt be bothered)
and de leon walking foreward and then move back........ now for a starter round this sounds ok but they landed betwen them 6 punches throwing a whopping...get ready for this 20 punches.:yikes


and repeat this for 12 rounds no man wanted the fight. real waste of time.

the entertainer as a ring name....:fire

[Robbi]

Hagler wiped out Lee in about 67 seconds, from memory finishing him with a scorching jab hybrid. This was the fight that convinced Steward to pull Hearns out of the Hagler fight and wait a few years for Tommy to grow and mature more. I think you might be mixed up with another fight, but to be honest Hagler really didn't have any poor performances around this time.
Hagler sure never had any problems with Lee. Larry Hazzard, now chief commissioner of the New Jersey commission and the referee when Hagler squared off against Lee, said after the fight. It was the closest I've ever seen to death in the ring. Speaking about Hagler's furious assualt, and the need to step in and halt proceedings. Exaggeration overboard a bit. Hagler and Hearns were scheduled to square off in May 1982, but Hearns had to pull out with a hand injury. Broken pinky to be precise. The Lee fight was the turn of the year, early 1982. Not sure if the hand injury was geniune, or as stated above, Steward and Hearns thought biding their time more was a winner.

[JohnThomas1]

Hagler sure never had any problems with Lee. Larry Hazzard, now chief commissioner of the New Jersey commission and the referee when Hagler squared off against Lee, said after the fight. It was the closest I've ever seen to death in the ring. Speaking about Hagler's furious assualt, and the need to step in and halt proceedings. Exaggeration overboard a bit. Hagler and Hearns were scheduled to square off in May 1982, but Hearns had to pull out with a hand injury. Broken pinky to be precise. The Lee fight was the turn of the year, early 1982. Not sure if the hand injury was geniune, or as stated above, Steward and Hearns thought biding their time more was a winner.

The pinky wasn't genuine for sure Robbi. I see you've really gone out and expanded your knowledge, or are now getting more involved. Good stuff.

[Robbi]

The pinky wasn't genuine for sure Robbi. I see you've really gone out and expanded your knowledge, or are now getting more involved. Good stuff.
JT. Don't tell me you have ever doubted my knowledge lol. Because i certainly aint doubted yours. Getting involved more for sure. Just not a regular on here daily like yourself. My knowlege on the fight game is solid enough in my opinion. Not an expert who knows everything, but nobody knows everything. Some know more than others though, it must be said. Looks like our debate about Foremans chin against Ali has done me no favours .

[McGrain]

JT and Robbi, you're sparring's been good.

Good stuff, a good read.

[Robbi]

True enough, Hagler didnt look so good in struggling with Duran and Caveman Lee and some of his other challengers were nothing great, but the blowout of Hearns after taking everything he could dish out is the achievement that makes Hagler an all time great champion in my opinion. That performance alone established Hagler as an animal. Very, very impressive performance that defines the kind of will to win that all champions should have. Hopkins on the other hand is a modern day marvel, who took the measure of all of his challengers and adapted his style in a most effective and intelligent way. However, he didnt have a monster destroyer like Hearns to threaten him like Hagler did. Both were great champons, but Hagler distinguished himself a bit more than Hopkins. That much said however, I think Carlos Monzon would have beaten them both.

Hagler clearly struggled with Duran over 15 rounds. Duran got into Hagler's head before the fight, and obviously during it with his cute defensive strategy, which nobody expected. Some members of the press went as far to say, Hagler was intimidated. Not too sure about being intimidated, but probably the whole superfight occassion made Hagler nervous and edgey. This was the biggest money spinner of his career up until the Hearns showdown.

Caveman Lee was a journeyman, who Hagler happened to inilate. If he done the same destruction on Duran, then you could say he had an unforgettable win during the first 5 years of his reign against a marquee opponent. But in my opinion he never. Sibson and Roldan were arguably his best wins. That debate sure went out the window on April 15th, 1985.

[Black Eyes To You]

Holmes isn't a top ten heavy

Lewis is a slower version of Holmes with a worse set of whiskers

Tommy Morrisson would of beat Ray Mercer if he hadn't got stuck in the ropes

Francois Botha is an under rated fighter

David Tua is an overrated fighter

Doing away with 15 round fights changed the sport for the worse

Judges should have to either be ex referees or judge their way from amateur ranks to professional ranks. Ending with the most competent judging championship fights.

Women shouldn't judge or ref men's fights.

They should have a different ring girl for each round of the main event and show them between rounds during PPV events.

Tyson could of been the P4P all time greatest if he wasn't such a fuck up

Tyson should of been suspended forever when he bit off Holyfields Ear. For the good of the sport.

And Finally. Roy Jones in his prime was the best p4p of all time. But he is an arrogant asshole.

[Robbi]

I believe JCC would have beaten De La Hoya in their first fight if not for the cut. Chavez would have taken him into deep water and drowned him later in the fight.

That sure is the strangest opinion on this thread, well one of them.


Chavez had aged too much at this point in his career to deal with De La Hoya's boxing ability at distance. The old legs could not get that speed in them to close the distance.

The only time De La Hoya had any trouble whatsoever with Chavez was during the rematch when strategy tricked him. Instead of constantly coming forward hunting, Chavez stood off a bit and outjabbed De La Hoya during some of the early rounds. A right hand from Chavez landed from the outside at the end of the 2nd round, which almost turned De La Hoya 90 degrees.

De La Hoya did begin to pop off those stinging jabs, and 3-4 punch combos which Chavez never matched, especially during the 5th and 6th rounds. The 7th round was crucial momment as Chavez got inside and began to trade furiously with De La Hoya on equal terms throughout the round. Tiredness eventually took it toll on Chavez during the 8th, as De La Hoya clearly outpunched him three to one during the exchanges, with a monster left uppercut the damaging blow on the bell, resulting in Chavez retiring on his stool.

De La Hoya's strategy was perfect when they first squared off, he was clearly focused and intent on not letting Chavez get anywhere near him. Jab, jab, lead right hand, combination, then away again. Never allowing Chavez get set to mount any attacks. De La Hoya accomplished this during periods of their rematch, but only in spurts.


De La Hoya's strategy for the rematch was inconsistent and all over the place, however the same can't be said when they first fought as it was perfect.

[Lacyace]

I had Duran up 67-66 on SRL in Duran-SRL II. Howard Cosell (I think it was Cosell) was riding SRL hard. I wasn't fooled, I thought Duran won the first two rounds, SRL won the next two rounds, and Duran took two out of the next three. SRL wasn't badly outclassing Duran like people would like to have you believe.

[Toopretty]

Holmes isn't a top ten heavy

Lewis is a slower version of Holmes with a worse set of whiskers

Tommy Morrisson would of beat Ray Mercer if he hadn't got stuck in the ropes

Francois Botha is an under rated fighter

David Tua is an overrated fighter

Doing away with 15 round fights changed the sport for the worse

Judges should have to either be ex referees or judge their way from amateur ranks to professional ranks. Ending with the most competent judging championship fights.

Women shouldn't judge or ref men's fights.

They should have a different ring girl for each round of the main event and show them between rounds during PPV events.

Tyson could of been the P4P all time greatest if he wasn't such a fuck up

Tyson should of been suspended forever when he bit off Holyfields Ear. For the good of the sport.

And Finally. Roy Jones in his prime was the best p4p of all time. But he is an arrogant asshole.


Damn....thats all I can say..good post:happy but the tyson thing..I blame holyfield..lol I know it sounds strange ..but you dont head budd a pitbull like Tyson...he will bite ya..lol And evander was bulldozing that noggin all over tyson.. And the ref was not doing nothing about it. So tyson just seen ear and said fuck it..lol:nutcase

[Duodenum]

Max Schmeling was the greatest person in boxing history. Not fighter, person.If Max wasn't, I'd like to know who was. (If as Jimmy Cannon wrote, Louis was a credit to the human race, what does that make Schmeling? (The poem "IF," written and published by Rudyard Kipling when Max was five years old, applies perfectly to Schmeling.)

[young griffo]

That the Lewis-Holyfield draw was a fair result (although I must admit that I was in the midst of a two day bender when I watched it.Oh and I was also suffering from conjunctivitis).

[Jack Dempsey]

That the Lewis-Holyfield draw was a fair result (although I must admit that I was in the midst of a two day bender when I watched it.Oh and I was also suffering from conjunctivitis).

And you were watching the fight through a fish tank:yep

[JohnThomas1]

JT. Don't tell me you have ever doubted my knowledge lol. Because i certainly aint doubted yours. Getting involved more for sure. Just not a regular on here daily like yourself. My knowlege on the fight game is solid enough in my opinion. Not an expert who knows everything, but nobody knows everything. Some know more than others though, it must be said. Looks like our debate about Foremans chin against Ali has done me no favours .

Thatis it, you're getting much more involved and deeper in your posts. Good stuff! You've come out with some real insights recently.

Don't worry about the Foreman chin, it's all good.
Nothing personal at all. Maybe neither of us are quite right lol. Maybe it sits in the middle too? Cheers.

[janitor]

Where do I begin?

Perhaps it would be easier to list my views that are not controvertial.

[Stonehands89]

Where do I begin?

Perhaps it would be easier to list my views that are not controvertial.

Haha! I will give you this Janitor, you and I often disagree, but you defend your views very well.

Your understanding of pugilism is meticulous. And while I aver towards ethology, it would be groundless without paleontologists like you. Here's a hand extended across time and continents.

[janitor]

Haha! I will give you this Janitor, you and I often disagree, but you defend your views very well.

Your understanding of pugilism is meticulous. And while I aver towards ethology, it would be groundless without paleontologists like you. Here's a hand extended across time and continents.

Much apreciated.

I always read your posts with interest.

[KTFO]

Everyone and their grandmother rates Louis and Ali as #1 and #2, for example.


That's the reason why your grandmother doesn't really have an idea about boxing.

[KTFO]

Explain, they're clearly the top 2, or at least Ali, and I don't see you making too good an argument for someone above Louis either.


Would take too much time,I'm sorry. Furthermore I'm not interested anymore in discussions that have no endings or have no sense. Just pick any fighter you like to see and it's ok.

[Drew101]

A few offerings

* I'm beginning to think that Sugar Ray Robinson, the welterweight, is maybe a bit overrated, and I think that Napoles, Griffith and Leonard would all win at least one fight out of a three fight series with the original Sugarman.

*Conversely, I think Robinson the middleweight is actually underrated on this site.

* I think Leotis Martin would have given Ali a pretty hard evening had he not suffered a detatched retina following the Liston fight...and had Ali not been forced into exile.

* After wacthing, and re-watching Leonard Duran 1 again, I'm beginning to think that it's not the clear-cut victory that everyone makes it out to be. I scored it a draw the last time I saw it, and I could see a case being made for SRL edging out a decision after doing the better work over the last three rounds.

[Jack Dempsey]

Mike Tyson is the greatest HW of the last 25 years:D

[China_hand_Joe]

My below average opinion of Pep and my above average opinion of Joe Calzaghe.

[Jack Dempsey]

My below average opinion of Pep and my above average opinion of Joe Calzaghe.

And your Super Gay Robin Reid avatar

[warchild]

Hagler/Hearns wasn't a good fight. Yes, the first round was intense, but Hagler never appeared to be hurt, as many people maintain....and he walked Hearns down just like he said he would. I don't understand how such a devastating and decisive beatdown can be regarded as a good match.

[Dekkers]

Firpo was robbed.

Tszyu is the greatest 140 pounder but he still underachieved, his boxing went backwards in some ways after his amateur days.

Wladimir is 'punch shy'.

Lennox is the third greatest heavy of all time.

Foreman could have beaten Ali on more neutral ground with less distractions.

Tua is overrated and underrated, the guy that KO'ed Moorer and Ruiz is overrated, the guy that went to war with Ike is underrated.

A lot of fight fans suck (too bloodthirsty and disrespectful).

Prime Tyson is overrated by fan boys, seeing Wlad in action now reminds me of that. Extraordinarily dominant with average/overmatched opposition.

[Jack Dempsey]

Firpo was robbed.

Tszyu is the greatest 140 pounder but he still underachieved, his boxing went backwards in some ways after his amateur days.

Wladimir is 'punch shy'.

Lennox is the third greatest heavy of all time.

Foreman could have beaten Ali on more neutral ground with less distractions.

Tua is overrated and underrated, the guy that KO'ed Moorer and Ruiz is overrated, the guy that went to war with Ike is underrated.

A lot of fight fans suck (too bloodthirsty and disrespectful).

Prime Tyson is overrated by fan boys, seeing Wlad in action now reminds me of that. Extraordinarily dominant with average/overmatched opposition.

:lol: Somehow I knew you would post this:-(

[thunder06]

LaMotta won at least 2 of his fights against SRR and in his prime would give any middleweight or light-heavy a hell of a rough night.

A prime Ali beats a prime Joe Frazier every time.

Joe louis would beat all of the current beltholders on the same night.

[Cachibatches]

1. If the ref asked Meldrick Taylor a question, and he failed to respond, then the stoppage against Chavez was legit regardless of how much time was left on the clock.

2. Jack Dempsey is astonsihingly overrated. Astonishingly. He almost certainly loaded the gloves against Willard. Wills was the real champ.

3. Max Schmeling was a great heavyweight. He should be recognized as a two time champion, becauuse he should have got the shot against Braddock, and Braddock should have been stripped for non-defense.

4. Rocky Marciano had some of the best defenses at heavyweight, not some of the worst. Certainly better than Joe Luis'.

5. Jack Johnson should be derrided has having drawn the color line, just like any white fighter.

6.The real title holders of that era were the black fighters., with the possible exception of Jeffries who beat the best black fighters on the way up.

7. Tommy Hearns is 2 and 0 against Leonard. The first fight was a quick stoppage in which he was ahead on points, and the second an outright screwjob.

8. Salvador Sanchez should be recognized as a top twenty ATG guy just for his wins over Gomez and Nelson, who went on to be great. Wins against Laporte, Lopez etc. don't hurt either.


9. We should alter records so that they have asterisks on every one. It should be officially noted that eveyone knows that Whitiker beat Chavez, Fenech beat Nelson, etc. etc. It should at the very least be noted in some officail capacity that some important fights are highly disputed.

10. I like public scoring.

11. It it could be proven that headgear would help reduce brain damage, I would have no problem with the pros wearing it. Those guys fight for our entertainment- lets give them evey possible chance.

12. Ezzard Charles is a top ten PfP guy. He is a middleweight who thrice defeated Archie Moore, lifted the heavyweight belt, got a win over Joe Luis, and gave Marciano hs toughest fights. Incredible.

[thunder06]

Rocky Marciano would kill any cruiserweight if he was around today.

[Jack Dempsey]

1. If the ref asked Meldrick Taylor a question, and he failed to respond, then the stoppage against Chavez was legit regardless of how much time was left on the clock.

2. Jack Dempsey is astonsihingly overrated. Astonishingly. He almost certainly loaded the gloves against Willard. Wills was the real champ.

3. Max Schmeling was a great heavyweight. He should be recognized as a two time champion, becauuse he should have got the shot against Braddock, and Braddock should have been stripped for non-defense.

4. Rocky Marciano had some of the best defenses at heavyweight, not some of the worst. Certainly better than Joe Luis'.

5. Jack Johnson should be derrided has having drawn the color line, just like any white fighter.

6.The real title holders of that era were the black fighters., with the possible exception of Jeffries who beat the best black fighters on the way up.

7. Tommy Hearns is 2 and 0 against Leonard. The first fight was a quick stoppage in which he was ahead on points, and the second an outright screwjob.

8. Salvador Sanchez should be recognized as a top twenty ATG guy just for his wins over Gomez and Nelson, who went on to be great. Wins against Laporte, Lopez etc. don't hurt either.


9. We should alter records so that they have asterisks on every one. It should be officially noted that eveyone knows that Whitiker beat Chavez, Fenech beat Nelson, etc. etc. It should at the very least be noted in some officail capacity that some important fights are highly disputed.

10. I like public scoring.

11. It it could be proven that headgear would help reduce brain damage, I would have no problem with the pros wearing it. Those guys fight for our entertainment- lets give them evey possible chance.

12. Ezzard Charles is a top ten PfP guy. He is a middleweight who thrice defeated Archie Moore, lifted the heavyweight belt, got a win over Joe Luis, and gave Marciano hs toughest fights. Incredible.

Some interesting ones there Cachi:good , can't say I agree with the Dempsey one though:D

[CASH_718]

my top three heavyweight list is

1. rocky marciano
2. larry holmes
3. ali

most people find that very strangeStrange no. Retarded yes.

[Cachibatches]

Some interesting ones there Cachi:good , can't say I agree with the Dempsey one though:D
I overstated the Demspey stuff. We are kind of airing our grievences here, so I ran with it.

[fists of fury]

Cachibatches, why do you refer to Joe Louis as Joe LUIS? (It's not a typo; you've done it before several times. Just curious...

Some of mine:

1) Lennox Lewis demolishes Joe Louis. (Bad style matchup)

2) Tyson had the most nautral talent of all the heavyeight champs.

3) Roy Jones at 160 beats 99% of middleweights in history.

4) Jack Johnson lost fair and square to Willard. There was no fix.

5) Jake Lamotta is very overrated.

6) Pernell Whitaker beats Roberto Duran 9/10 at 135

7) Frank Bruno actually had a good chin.

8) It is fortunate no film of Greb exists. His legacy has benefitted from this.

9) Jack Johnson was a bum. (Yeah, a bum.)

10) Ezzard Charles was the best 175 fighter ever.

11) The cruiserwieight division sucks and always has.

12) Naseem Hamed is very overrated, and is no ATG featherweight.

13) A points shutout is more conclusive than a devastating KO.

14) 70's Foreman is horribly overrated.

15) In the future, US heavyweights will not be a factor in the division.

16) Riddick Bowe would beat 95% of ATG heavyweights.

17) Holmes outboxes prime Ali.

18) SRL beats Henry Armstrong every day of the week at welter.

19) So does Hearns.

20) Steele was perfectly justified in stopping Taylor's fight with Chavez.

[thunder06]

Cachibatches, why do you refer to Joe Louis as Joe LUIS? (It's not a typo; you've done it before several times. Just curious...

Some of mine:

1) Lennox Lewis demolishes Joe Louis. (Bad style matchup)

2) Tyson had the most nautral talent of all the heavyeight champs.

3) Roy Jones at 160 beats 99% of middleweights in history.

4) Jack Johnson lost fair and square to Willard. There was no fix.

5) Jake Lamotta is very overrated.

6) Pernell Whitaker beats Roberto Duran 9/10 at 135

7) Frank Bruno actually had a good chin.

8) It is fortunate no film of Greb exists. His legacy has benefitted from this.

9) Jack Johnson was a bum. (Yeah, a bum.)

10) Ezzard Charles was the best 175 fighter ever.

11) The cruiserwieight division sucks and always has.

12) Naseem Hamed is very overrated, and is no ATG featherweight.

13) A points shutout is more conclusive than a devastating KO.

14) 70's Foreman is horribly overrated.

15) In the future, US heavyweights will not be a factor in the division.

16) Riddick Bowe would beat 95% of ATG heavyweights.

17) Holmes outboxes prime Ali.

18) SRL beats Henry Armstrong every day of the week at welter.

19) So does Hearns.

20) Steele was perfectly justified in stopping Taylor's fight with Chavez.


i agree with #13. A KO can be pure luck, but a points shutout shows who really is the better fighter.

[TBooze]

20) Steele was perfectly justified in stopping Taylor's fight with Chavez.

That just shows that you are human, and do not want to see any boxer die by taking one punch too many.

[Cachibatches]

Cachibatches, why do you refer to Joe Louis as Joe LUIS? (It's not a typo; you've done it before several times. Just curious...

Some of mine:

1) Lennox Lewis demolishes Joe Louis. (Bad style matchup)

2) Tyson had the most nautral talent of all the heavyeight champs.

3) Roy Jones at 160 beats 99% of middleweights in history.

4) Jack Johnson lost fair and square to Willard. There was no fix.

5) Jake Lamotta is very overrated.

6) Pernell Whitaker beats Roberto Duran 9/10 at 135

7) Frank Bruno actually had a good chin.

8) It is fortunate no film of Greb exists. His legacy has benefitted from this.

9) Jack Johnson was a bum. (Yeah, a bum.)

10) Ezzard Charles was the best 175 fighter ever.

11) The cruiserwieight division sucks and always has.

12) Naseem Hamed is very overrated, and is no ATG featherweight.

13) A points shutout is more conclusive than a devastating KO.

14) 70's Foreman is horribly overrated.

15) In the future, US heavyweights will not be a factor in the division.

16) Riddick Bowe would beat 95% of ATG heavyweights.

17) Holmes outboxes prime Ali.

18) SRL beats Henry Armstrong every day of the week at welter.

19) So does Hearns.

20) Steele was perfectly justified in stopping Taylor's fight with Chavez.
Because I can't spell. I apologize. I am constantly being chastized at work for this. Ironically, Joe Luis...er...Luois...er...Louis is my favorite at heavyweight. The fights with Schemling capture my imagination better than anything Ali did.

You have some really good ones on there, a couple of which (Ezzard Charles and Steele) agree with mine. I almost said Lamotta was overrated, and a couple of them, like Naseem, I would have thought would go without saying.

But I can't stand Riddick Bowe, and will not conceade that whether it is true or not.

[fists of fury]

Oh. :lol: I thought spelling it that way had some sort of deeper meaning. :oops:

[CASH_718]

*Ali was lucky Foreman was a bit thick in t'Jungle.



Foreman was only 2 1/2 pounds heavier when he fought Ali then when he fought Frazier and 4 3/4 pounds LESS then when he fought Ken Norton.

[CASH_718]

David Haye would KO Maricano early

[Minotauro]

1. Holman Williams is probably the most underrated fighter ever.

2. Jack Dempsey is the most overrated heavyweight.

3. The original Joe Walcott would beat all the welterweights today.

4. Jose Napoles has the best chance to beat Sugar Ray Robinson at welterweight.

5. Julio Cesar Chavez would beat Henry Armstrong at lightweight.

6. Three out of my top five light-heavyweights never held the belt (Ezzard, Tunney and Langford).

7. Kid Gavilan would beat Tommy Hearns at welterweight.

8. The Chavez vs. Taylor stoppage was justified.

9. At their best I would favour Frazier over Ali.

10. Aaron Pryor would have lost to Arguello in the first fight had it not been for the black bottle.

[TBooze]

10. Aaron Pyor would have lost to Arguello in the first fight had it not been for the black bottle.

Oh come on it was only Peppermint Schnapps in the bottle. Panama Lewis stuck his reputation on it, so it must be true;)