If Roy Jones KOs Tito then Beats Winner of......

[BewareofDawg]

If Roy Jones KOs Tito and then goes on to beat the winner of Calzaghe/Hopkins is he the G.O.A.T.? You would have to place him at least in the top 5 based on his accomplishments and seemingly flawless talent in his prime.

[196osh]

Yep. He would be top 5. Would love to see it. But it is not going to happen.

[yesihavearm]

If RJJ beats Tito and Calzaghe I'd put him top10.

The only thing that stops me from putting him up high anyway is his losses to milkdud and johnson.

[Shane_Erich]

He'd easily be top 5 in my book.

[bladerunner]

top 10/15.

[BewareofDawg]

If RJJ beats Tito and Calzaghe I'd put him top10.

The only thing that stops me from putting him up high anyway is his losses to milkdud and johnson.
Those were losses in that he looked nothing like "his former self". This would be an unbelievable accomplishment. That when he lost his fire, his prime, his "talent" his career was seemingly dead...much like other former greats. But he worked his way back up, dug deep and regained his glory. :deal It would be like Mike Tyson coming back and winning a title today or Holyfield, or Morales.

[KayEpps]

Roy is already in some people's top 20 of all time - so I would say Yes - it would bump him up to at least within the Top 10!

[peter5]

If Roy Jones KOs Tito and then goes on to beat the winner of Calzaghe/Hopkins is he the G.O.A.T.? You would have to place him at least in the top 5 based on his accomplishments and seemingly flawless talent in his prime.

Fuck me! That would be some achievement, and if it did happen, and lets face it, JC was calling out Jnes only last year as possible names to fight, but Jones cant beat JC now, but if it happened, yes, top 10 at least, top5 possibly:good

[BUDW]

He has to take on Tarver and win

[jc]

As much chance of happening as Ricardo Lopez coming back to out box Wladimir Klitschko, not worth discussing.

After Jones KO's Tito, which he should do fairly easily, old or not, people will be calling for a Calzaghe fight or an Hopkins fight, but that doesnt make it a credible match up, RJJ is utterly spent!

[TFFP]

What's with all these "What if...blahblahblah" threads that are completely unrealistic?

Have you seen RJJ fight recently?

He's rubbish

[doublesuited]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Are you kidding me? Roy Jones is the biggest joke in boxing today. He beats a 50 year old former welterweight and an 80 year old Hopkins and he's top 5? Roy couldn't carry Robinson, Armstrong, Pep, Greb, or Duran's jockstrap. They wouldn't have been knocked out cold by someone like Glen Johnson.

[King Dan]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Are you kidding me? Roy Jones is the biggest joke in boxing today. He beats a 50 year old former welterweight and an 80 year old Hopkins and he's top 5? Roy couldn't carry Robinson, Armstrong, Pep, Greb, or Duran's jockstrap. They wouldn't have been knocked out cold by someone like Glen Johnson.


For once I agree with RZA.

Even if Roy KO'd a useless Tito and then outpointed JC or B-Hop, he still wouldn't crack top 20 all time.

Roy's career doesn't hold a candle to the guys that RZA mentioned and I'll also throw in Ali, Louis, Archie Moore, SR Leonard, Sweet Pea, Monzon, JC Chavez, Barney Ross, Ruben Olivares, Alexis Arguello and Wilfredo Gomez.

Thats 16 guys ahead of him easily.

Sal Sanchez, Canzoneri, Griffith, Miguel Canto, Mickey Walker, Dempsey, Tunney....should I keep going?

[doublesuited]

For once I agree with RZA.

Even if Roy KO'd a useless Tito and then outpointed JC or B-Hop, he still wouldn't crack top 20 all time.

Roy's career doesn't hold a candle to the guys that RZA mentioned and I'll also throw in Ali, Louis, Archie Moore, SR Leonard, Sweet Pea, Monzon, JC Chavez, Barney Ross, Ruben Olivares, Alexis Arguello and Wilfredo Gomez.

Thats 16 guys ahead of him easily.

Sal Sanchez, Canzoneri, Griffith, Miguel Canto, Mickey Walker, Dempsey, Tunney....should I keep going?:good

Last time Roy faced a decent light heavyweight, he was given a "standing month count" by Glen Johnson.

[196osh]

For once I agree with RZA.

Even if Roy KO'd a useless Tito and then outpointed JC or B-Hop, he still wouldn't crack top 20 all time.

Roy's career doesn't hold a candle to the guys that RZA mentioned and I'll also throw in Ali, Louis, Archie Moore, SR Leonard, Sweet Pea, Monzon, JC Chavez, Barney Ross, Ruben Olivares, Alexis Arguello and Wilfredo Gomez.

Thats 16 guys ahead of him easily.

Sal Sanchez, Canzoneri, Griffith, Miguel Canto, Mickey Walker, Dempsey, Tunney....should I keep going?

So shall we get started with this debate: He would have beaten better fighters than you mentioned.

He would have had 4 ATG: Hill (20 LHW defences), Toney, Hopkins and Calzaghe. Won titles from middle to heavyweight.

[doublesuited]

So shall we get started with this debate: He would have beaten better fighters than you mentioned.

He would have had 4 ATG: Hill (20 LHW defences), Toney, Hopkins and Calzaghe. Won titles from middle to heavyweight.ROFL. Hill an ATG? Especially one that wasn't even motivated after getting his ass whooped by Hearns and DM?

Keep dreaming, kid. Preschool is thatoway.

:deal

[196osh]

ROFL. Hill an ATG? Especially one that wasn't even motivated after getting his ass whooped by Hearns and DM?

Keep dreaming, kid. Preschool is thatoway.

:deal

:lol: As i said before Pawel, always have to put in something retarded at the end of a post.

Is Shane Mosley an ATG? or Winky Wright?

[King Dan]

So shall we get started with this debate: He would have beaten better fighters than you mentioned.

He would have had 4 ATG: Hill (20 LHW defences), Toney, Hopkins and Calzaghe. Won titles from middle to heavyweight.

Hill is not an ATG, Toney basically was at that point and Hopkins was just coming into his own, not close to being an ATG yet.

Roy is an ATG, probably top 40-50, just not a top 25 ATG.

If he were to easily outpoint Calzaghe or KO him, it would help his cause but cracking the top 15 or even 10 would be a HUUUUGE stretch!

The fight with Tito serves no meaning to me.

[King Dan]

:lol: As i said before Pawel, always have to put in something retarded at the end of a post.

Is Shane Mosley an ATG? or Winky Wright?

Shane is top 75 based on his run in the lightweight division and the big Oscar win.

Winky is top 100.

[doublesuited]

:lol: As i said before Pawel, always have to put in something retarded at the end of a post.

Is Shane Mosley an ATG? or Winky Wright?Both Mosley and Wright would be on the threshold, depends on your criteria.

But Hill is most definitely not an ATG. To even hint that he is says something about your lack of knowledge concerning boxing.

[196osh]

Shane is top 75 based on his run in the lightweight division and the big Oscar win.

Winky is top 100.

What have they done that is better than what Hill did?

[doublesuited]

What have they done that is better than what Hill did?:patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch

They actually beat other elite fighters?

[King Dan]

Thank you RZA!

[196osh]

Both Mosley and Wright would be on the threshold, depends on your criteria.

But Hill is most definitely not an ATG. To even hint that he is says something about your lack of knowledge concerning boxing.

hahahah. The first guy to bring up that point was kg0208. He have a lack of boxing knowledge?

Hill won world titles in 2 weight class's, and had 20 LHW title defences. Just because a guy is under the radar does not mean that he is not good.

[doublesuited]

Thank you RZA!:good

[196osh]

:patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch :patsch

They actually beat other elite fighters?

Mosley beat Oscar and Winky beat Mosley. So by the power of that they are obviously much better than Hill? With 20 LHW title defences and belts in 2 weight class's?

[doublesuited]

Hill won world titles in 2 weight class's, and had 20 LHW title defences. Just because a guy is under the radar does not mean that he is not good.Titles in multiple division and title defenses do not make you an all-time great... That's why no one cared about Hopkins pre-Tito.

To be an all-time great, you need to defeat great fighters. Who was Hill's best win? Maske?

[doublesuited]

Mosley beat Oscar and Winky beat Mosley. So by the power of that they are obviously much better than Hill? With 20 LHW title defences and belts in 2 weight class's?Because they actually have an elite name in the "W" column?

What happened when Hill faced DM or Jones?

[196osh]

Titles in multiple division and title defenses do not make you an all-time great... That's why no one cared about Hopkins pre-Tito.

To be an all-time great, you need to defeat great fighters. Who was Hill's best win? Maske?

That logic is flawed to hell. So are Tito or Oscar ATG MW's?

[doublesuited]

Not to mention that Wright cleaned out 154 and Mosley dominated the lightweight division for years.

[King Dan]

From 1997-2001, Shane Mosley was a f*cking Legend.

Hill never enjoyed that kind of run.

Mosley then went on to lose to Vernon and Winky.
No shame there as stylistically, welterweight Vernon Forrest gives most welters in history nightmares and Winky is a natural jr middle/middle, Shane is a natural 135-147 guy.

[196osh]

From 1997-2001, Shane Mosley was a f*cking Legend.

Hill never enjoyed that kind of run.

Mosley then went on to lose to Vernon and Winky.
No shame there as stylistically, welterweight Vernon Forrest gives most welters in history nightmares and Winky is a natural jr middle/middle, Shane is a natural 135-147 guy.

It could be argued that he lost to Oscar the 2nd fight. Also he never cleaned up the LW divison he never unifiyed. He jumped 140 all together.

[King Dan]

It could be argued that he lost to Oscar the 2nd fight. Also he never cleaned up the LW divison he never unifiyed. He jumped 140 all together.

It can absolutely be argued that DLH won the rematch.

However, that fight doesn't fall between the timeframes I had given you.

Shane's Legend was already established. Everything else has been gravy.

Thanks for the response.

[doublesuited]

That logic is flawed to hell. So are Tito or Oscar ATG MW's?Easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time everyone was picking Tito to win.

If Monzon gets credit for beating Griffith and Napoles, why should Hopkins not get credit for beating Tito and DLH?

[196osh]

Easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time everyone was picking Tito to win.

If Monzon gets credit for beating Griffith and Napoles, why should Hopkins not get credit for beating Tito and DLH?

He should get credit for the Tito win I will give you. But Tito is not an ATG middleweight which is your criteria. He is and ATG WW and LMW. However, that is a good win.

Oscar however, he does not get any credit for because he was a crap crap middleweight. He freaking "lost" to Felix Strum

[brooklyn1550]

I'd have him top 5 if he beat Trinidad and Calzaghe

[196osh]

It can absolutely be argued that DLH won the rematch.

However, that fight doesn't fall between the timeframes I had given you.

Shane's Legend was already established. Everything else has been gravy.

Thanks for the response.

Im a bit distracted didnt read the timeframe.

It still stands however that he never unified his divison in either of them and the only thing during that period that he did that was significantly better than what Hill did was to beat Oscar.

[King Dan]

Tito might be the Greatest Jr Middleweight of All Time, and Hopkins dominated him.

[doublesuited]

He should get credit for the Tito win I will give you. But Tito is not an ATG middleweight which is your criteria. He is and ATG WW and LMW. However, that is a good win.

Oscar however, he does not get any credit for because he was a crap crap middleweight. He freaking "lost" to Felix StrumI said no such thing that to be an ATG, you had to defeat great fighters from the same division.

Again, if Monzon gets credit for beating Napoles and Griffith. And if Marciano gets credit for beating Moore and Charles. Then Hopkins deserves to be credited for his 2 wins.

[196osh]

I said no such thing that to be an ATG, you had to defeat great fighters from the same division.

Again, if Monzon gets credit for beating Napoles and Griffith. And if Marciano gets credit for beating Moore and Charles. Then Hopkins deserves to be credited for his 2 wins.

I do not give Marciano that much credit. That however is beside the point.

Tito would be lucky to crack top 50 MW of all time so Hopkins beating him at MW is not as good as say: Jones beating Hopkins at MW or Toney at SMW.

I would also argue that Hill is a better fighter at 175 than Tito ever was at 160.

[gutto]

if rjj did pull that off 10 ten for sure

[doublesuited]

I do not give Marciano that much credit. That however is beside the point. Then what the hell is your point? That Hill is an ATG? What elite fighters has he ever beaten?

[196osh]

Then what the hell is your point? That Hill is an ATG? What elite fighters has he ever beaten?

That is my point. The criteria should not be based upon one win against an ATG. Or hell Tarver is an ATG, which clearly he is not.

Hill is an ATG because he had 20 LHW title defences and won world titles in 2 weight class's.

What about Hopkins then? Hopkins may have defeated an ATG's in Tito and Oscar. But Oscar is a shit shit shit MW. Tito was never a great MW. So beating Tito att MW for a fighter is not the same as beating a LMW or WW Tito for example. Howver it is a good win.

[doublesuited]

That is my point. The criteria should not be based upon one win against an ATG. Or hell Tarver is an ATG, which clearly he is not.

Hill is an ATG because he had 20 LHW title defences and won world titles in 2 weight class's.

What about Hopkins then? Hopkins may have defeated an ATG's in Tito and Oscar. But Oscar is a shit shit shit MW. Tito was never a great MW. So beating Tito att MW for a fighter is not the same as beating a LMW or WW Tito for example. Howver it is a good win.The criteria ISN'T based upon one win against an ATG. It's based on being the best among all the fighters in boxing for an extended period of time, and in order to prove that you're one of the best fighters you have to fight the best.

Just because he won two ABC belts in 2 divisions while defending it against stiffs doesn't mean he's an all-time great.

Hopkins deserves his credit because Tito and Oscar were both excellent fighters at 154 (see Griffith, Emile and Napoles, Jose).

[196osh]

The criteria ISN'T based upon one win against an ATG. It's based on being the best among all the fighters in boxing for an extended period of time, and in order to prove that you're one of the best fighters you have to fight the best.

Just because he won two ABC belts in 2 divisions while defending it against stiffs doesn't mean he's an all-time great.

Hopkins deserves his credit because Tito and Oscar were both excellent fighters at 154 (see Griffith, Emile and Napoles, Jose).

Yeah but 154 was as far as Oscar could go, he is a crap MW. As I said Tito is a good win.

Mosley beat the best during his LW reign? Despite the fact he never unified?

[doublesuited]

Yeah but 154 was as far as Oscar could go, he is a crap MW. As I said Tito is a good win.

Mosley beat the best during his LW reign? Despite the fact he never unified?Why bring Mosley into this? Did I ever even say he was an ATG? I said that he was on the cusp of being an ATG and he deserves more consideration than someone like Hill because Mosley actually beat another ATG.

[196osh]

Why bring Mosley into this? Did I ever even say he was an ATG? I said that he was on the cusp of being an ATG and he deserves more consideration than someone like Hill because Mosley actually beat another ATG.

Ok. Sorry must have been the other guy who was posting on here that said it.

Also would you say Oscar is an ATG?

[doublesuited]

Ok. Sorry must have been the other guy who was posting on here that said it.

Also would you say Oscar is an ATG?Yeah. You don't see him as an ATG? He clearly is in my opinion.

[196osh]

Yeah. You don't see him as an ATG? He clearly is in my opinion.

I do. But how would you say he is because he has never beaten another ATG. Infact he lost when he stepped up in comp.

[doublesuited]

I do. But how would you say he is because he has never beaten another ATG. Infact he lost when he stepped up in comp.He beat Chavez to win the lineal championship at 140. He beat Whitaker to win the lineal championship at 147. Two all-time great fighters, neither of them were shot, but they were past their best no doubt.

I don't care what people say, he beat Tito at 147.

[196osh]

He beat Chavez to win the lineal championship at 140. He beat Whitaker to win the lineal championship at 147. Two all-time great fighters, neither of them were shot, but they were past their best no doubt.

I don't care what people say, he beat Tito at 147.

I had him beating Tito. I also had him losing to Whitaker and Chavez was well past his best. Infact Chavez was past his best when Whitaker "beat" him 3 years before.

Strange. I would give De La Hoya more credit by how he performed against Tito than he performed against the other two actually. Just wanted to see if your criteria had changed, wasnt sure wither you were of the Jack Prescott school of thought and would change your view.

I would say that Hill is a lower end ATG about the same level as Mosley. But we got somewhat off Topic about the Jones thing.

Say taking your views on who are ATG's: Hopkins, Toney and Calzaghe and won titles from middleweight to heavyweight. And coming back from getting KO'd brutally twice to beat a guy who would be number 2 p4p in many people's eye's. How that could resume plus the ability he showed in the Ring and his H2H ability not be Top 5/10.

[doublesuited]

Say taking your views on who are ATG's: Hopkins, Toney and Calzaghe and won titles from middleweight to heavyweight. And coming back from getting KO'd brutally twice to beat a guy who would be number 2 p4p in many people's eye's. How that could resume plus the ability he showed in the Ring and his H2H ability not be Top 5/10. I never counted the Hopkins win as much as most fans do to enhance Jones' legacy. Both fighters were green, neither were at their absolute peaks. Jones beat a peak Toney and should he beat an undefeated Calzaghe, that definitely raises his stock to perhaps the Top 20.

Jones should never have been in a position to be knocked out brutally twice by mediocre fighters. If you look at the resume of fighters in the Top 10, they are simply better than Jones' resume.

By saying that Jones has come back to beat Calzaghe, you're also implying that Jones still had something left when he got brutally knocked out by Tarver and Johnson. Keep that in mind, too.

[196osh]

I never counted the Hopkins win as much as most fans do to enhance Jones' legacy. Both fighters were green, neither were at their absolute peaks. Jones beat a peak Toney and should he beat an undefeated Calzaghe, that definitely raises his stock to perhaps the Top 20.

Jones should never have been in a position to be knocked out brutally twice by mediocre fighters. If you look at the resume of fighters in the Top 10, they are simply better than Jones' resume.

By saying that Jones has come back to beat Calzaghe, you're also implying that Jones still had something left when he got brutally knocked out by Tarver and Johnson. Keep that in mind, too.

I can see where you are coming from with that argument. But do you not take H2H ability in when you are determining a ATG list? Also I would argue that he would have a better resume than say: Joe Louis who never fought a "great" fighter, than Pep because he stayed in the one weight class rather than move up.

I would say when drawing up a list I figure in 40% H2H ability and 60% Record because otherwise a guy like say Mayweather who is great H2H but who's best win is over a past prime Oscar who a number of people have beaten is not so impressive.

[doublesuited]

I can see where you are coming from with that argument. But do you not take H2H ability in when you are determining a ATG list? Also I would argue that he would have a better resume than say: Joe Louis who never fought a "great" fighter, than Pep because he stayed in the one weight class rather than move up.

I would say when drawing up a list I figure in 40% H2H ability and 60% Record because otherwise a guy like say Mayweather who is great H2H but who's best win is over a past prime Oscar who a number of people have beaten is not so impressive.My criteria is 45% record, 45% head-to-head, and 10% impact and legacy on the sport when making Top 10 lists. But when making lists such as the 100 greatest fighters of all-time, it's most likely around 70% record, 20% head-to-head, and 10% impact or legacy on the sport.

And I think Mayweather has a better record than you're implying. His work at 130 is very, very impressive.

[196osh]

My criteria is 45% record, 45% head-to-head, and 10% impact and legacy on the sport when making Top 10 lists. But when making lists such as the 100 greatest fighters of all-time, it's most likely around 70% record, 20% head-to-head, and 10% impact or legacy on the sport.

And I think Mayweather has a better record than you're implying. His work at 130 is very, very impressive.

Indeed it is. But he never beat any other Champions there, never unified but he is the best 130lb fighter in terms of H2H . So if you were doing a list of 130 fighters the fact that Floyd never unified does mean as much because he is so good H2H.

[doublesuited]

Indeed it is. But he never beat any other Champions there, never unified but he is the best 130lb fighter in terms of H2H . So if you were doing a list of 130 fighters the fact that Floyd never unified does mean as much because he is so good H2H.He essentially did unify with Corrales because Corrales was stripped of his IBF title for electing to fight Mayweather.

I don't care about unification, though. Mayweather basically cleaned out the division. The only mark against his stay there was that he didn't face the winner of the Casamayor/Freitas fight, but still, I don't hold it against him that much. He was clearly struggling to make weight and needed to move up.

[196osh]

He essentially did unify with Corrales because Corrales was stripped of his IBF title for electing to fight Mayweather.

I don't care about unification, though. Mayweather basically cleaned out the division. The only mark against his stay there was that he didn't face the winner of the Casamayor/Freitas fight, but still, I don't hold it against him that much. He was clearly struggling to make weight and needed to move up.

I agree on all points....:scaredas:

[Yun85]

i dont thik so rrj ko tito becase is not the same roy he afriad tito look his face in the press confernce is look sacare i think is another joke of the 90

[196osh]

i dont thik so rrj ko tito becase is not the same roy he afriad tito look his face in the press confernce is look sacare i think is another joke of the 90

:huh

What?

[BewareofDawg]

:huh

What?
He siad he sacare Roy tito thikn confrence OK Press is fight jowke 90 of :deal

[196osh]

He siad he sacare Roy tito thikn confrence OK Press is fight jowke 90 of :deal

Ahh i get you now.... :nut

[Ramshall1]

If pigs could fly, they wouldnt get slaughtered.

[pasky2000]

RJJ is already a top 5 all time for natural talent ! As far as accomplishments go...he would definitely be a top 10 !!

Its quite possible it happens..just watch !

[196osh]

If pigs could fly, they wouldnt get slaughtered.

Indeed. It will not happen but I would love to see it as a Jones fan. But Calzaghe wins a UD now comfortably at that.

[OklahomaHoss]

You can't get ktfo'd by Glencoffe Johnson and be the G.O.A.T. no matter what you do.

[196osh]

You can't get ktfo'd by Glencoffe Johnson and be the G.O.A.T. no matter what you do.

:lol: Give the man a break. He would have beat Glen Johnson like a drum in his prime. Also what if he stepped up and beat Wlad?

[kg0208]

Tito might be the Greatest Jr Middleweight of All Time, and Hopkins dominated him.
You know of course that Trinidad isn't even close to the greatest Jr MW ever. Off the top of my head, Hearns, McCallum, and Norris beat him.

As for the criteria for an ATG, Hill is deserving of consideration. Chavez actually never to my estimation beat another ATG. He beat the top fighters in his weight classes at the time, but not ATG's. Hill beat many top LHW's but no ATG's. Same with Calzaghe, who many are giving consideration as an ATG now, though he has never beaten nor faced one.

Point is, the criteria seems to change as needed. Mosley beat an ATG (One) but he also never had a run at any weight class he's been in that Hill did.

BTW, Jones can no longer beat Calzaghe.

[MasterCalzaghe]

Joens has no chance against Joe who is a dead cert to prevail against Hopkins. It simply can't happen, a prime Jones would have been something to behold and would have at least offered competition but this Jones?

Highly questionable. Plus lets not fogrget this is Roy Jones here, he talks and walks.

Away.

[kg0208]

You can't get ktfo'd by Glencoffe Johnson and be the G.O.A.T. no matter what you do.

Yeah......aren't you one of the guys thinking Klitscho could be an ATG if he keeps winning?

[OklahomaHoss]

Yeah......aren't you one of the guys thinking Klitscho could be an ATG if he keeps winning?


No. Im one of the guys who think he's already an ATG.

[196osh]

No. Im one of the guys who think he's already an ATG.

Well done then, everybody is intitaled to there own opinion :good. Wont argue with you other than to say I disagree.

[kg0208]

No. Im one of the guys who think he's already an ATG.

So in your estimation, you cannot get stopped by Johnson past your prime after winning titles in 4 weight classes and be P4P Top 3 for 10 straight years and be an ATG, but you can be stopped by Ross Purrity, Corey Sanders, and Lamon Brewster, 2 of them in his prime?

[kg0208]

Well done then, everybody is intitaled to there own opinion :good. Wont argue with you other than to say I disagree.

Which is fine. My argument is application of standards....and the apparent double standard he is using.

[196osh]

Which is fine. My argument is application of standards....and the apparent double standard he is using.

Yep. It is just a crazy notion at this point. People with crazy notions usually are not good to have a debate with.

[OklahomaHoss]

Well done then, everybody is intitaled to there own opinion :good. Wont argue with you other than to say I disagree.

:good

[OklahomaHoss]

So in your estimation, you cannot get stopped by Johnson past your prime after winning titles in 4 weight classes and be P4P Top 3 for 10 straight years and be an ATG, but you can be stopped by Ross Purrity, Corey Sanders, and Lamon Brewster, 2 of them in his prime?


Well of course, in my previous post about Johnson, I was just being fececious.

In all reality, I feel that RJJ has already cemented himself into the G.O.A.T. annals, as far as Im concernced. He was, simply put, unbelievable to watch. I hold RJJ in easily as high a regard as I do Wlad.

But having said that, it saddens me to seem him continue fighting when he's clearly faded from what he was.

[Ramshall1]

Indeed. It will not happen but I would love to see it as a Jones fan. But Calzaghe wins a UD now comfortably at that.

Fair enough, as boxing fans we should not be happy that valuable HBO PPV dates are getting sucked up by utterly meaningless fights like Tito-RJJ.

[kg0208]

Fair enough, as boxing fans we should not be happy that valuable HBO PPV dates are getting sucked up by utterly meaningless fights like Tito-RJJ.

As boxing fans, we shouldn't be happy that boxing is on cable soley to begin with, and that all big fights are virtually on PPV.

[kg0208]

Well of course, in my previous post about Johnson, I was just being fececious.

In all reality, I feel that RJJ has already cemented himself into the G.O.A.T. annals, as far as Im concernced. He was, simply put, unbelievable to watch. I hold RJJ in easily as high a regard as I do Wlad.

But having said that, it saddens me to seem him continue fighting when he's clearly faded from what he was.

Fair enough. Never can tell who really means what here.

And Jones should have retired ages ago. If he fights Calzaghe, he will lose and it will not look good.

[196osh]

Fair enough, as boxing fans we should not be happy that valuable HBO PPV dates are getting sucked up by utterly meaningless fights like Tito-RJJ.

It is not PPV for me. A bannana riding a lama what next :lol:

:lama

[Ramshall1]

As boxing fans, we shouldn't be happy that boxing is on cable soley to begin with, and that all big fights are virtually on PPV.

True, its even worse when the fight is as meaningless as this one. HBO should put this on regular HBO and have some names on the cusp of stardom on the undercard. . . Berto comes to mind.

[kg0208]

True, its even worse when the fight is as meaningless as this one. HBO should put this on regular HBO and have some names on the cusp of stardom on the undercard. . . Berto comes to mind.
Agreed. Showcase fights for young up and comers. I also think they should have a top prospects night each month on HBO, with 2 fights shown each with a top prospect. A European night is a good idea as well.

[Ramshall1]

Agreed. Showcase fights for young up and comers. I also think they should have a top prospects night each month on HBO, with 2 fights shown each with a top prospect. A European night is a good idea as well.

Yup, showtimes shobox has the right idea. . . they just dont have the budget of HBO.

HBO buys fighters, they should be buying fights.

[Lance_Uppercut]

If Roy Jones KOs Tito and then goes on to beat the winner of Calzaghe/Hopkins is he the G.O.A.T.? You would have to place him at least in the top 5 based on his accomplishments and seemingly flawless talent in his prime.

No. Because Roy beating Tito isn't the big accomplishement you think it is. Beating the Hopkins/Calzaghe winner would be good too, but not enogh to propel him to #1 ever. Not even close. Too many years w/ average opponents.

[cuchulain]

If Roy Jones KOs Tito and then goes on to beat the winner of Calzaghe/Hopkins is he the G.O.A.T.? You would have to place him at least in the top 5 based on his accomplishments and seemingly flawless talent in his prime.

If Roy loses to ten lightweights in a row, i still have him in the top five.

(If Ali had continued fighting after Berbick and lost three or four more, to middlewts, he would still be the best heavywt ever.)

Roy sealed his place in the pantheon when he beat Ruiz at what should have been the end of a great unbeaten career. He even iced the cake by coming down and recapturing the lightheavy title from Tarver. That should definitely have been game over. He's now a seriously degraded fighter, probably shot, regardless of when he stops Tito.

[NMUBURNER22]

Top 5 all time ...no doubt.

Throw Dawson in the mix and were talking the GOAT status.

[goldenboy]

he is an all time great as it is!! everyone knows he was over the hill when he suffered those defeats! Honestly I dont know if he will beat tito but as for him beating joe or hopkins, no definately not!