View Full Version : Jones vs Hagler at 160 pounds
Executioner
06-18-2007, 02:25 PM
Prime for Prime, who wins?
mightyd40
06-18-2007, 02:45 PM
i would be very confident roy would outpoint hagler at 160
Thread Stealer
06-18-2007, 02:59 PM
Roy was a little green at 160. He later gained a TON of experienced against southpaws, but that was mainly at 175 (and a little at SMW).
Hagler was a smaller middleweight than Roy but obviously much more experienced by the time he peaked at 160 than Roy at 160. Hagler's jab and skills would give anyone problems, but I think he's better off being more aggressive against Roy and attacking than boxing. I think he would mix the two well enough, pressuring and being aggressive when necessary, definitely using his great southpaw jab, and winning a close decision.
Roy would definitely give Marvin his share of problems. Roy's speed and reflexes (and power) would make it a difficult fight for just about anyone, even if he was still improving as a fighter @ 160.
PATSYS
06-18-2007, 03:00 PM
Hagler by late round destruction.
brooklyn1550
06-18-2007, 03:19 PM
50/50 fight for me. I think Jones beats Monzon, but Hagler maybe not so much. I used to say Jones UD, but this is a 50/50 fight for me.
:good This is a fight I can't be confident picking either guy, and I've thought long and hard on it.
CUFreeze
06-18-2007, 03:32 PM
Roy Jone Jr Ud
Arthur
06-18-2007, 03:37 PM
:good This is a fight I can't be confident picking either guy, and I've thought long and hard on it.
Me too. My pick is Hagler but i can't shake the feeling that Jones might of won a decision against him similar to the way Leonard did.
Boro chris
06-18-2007, 05:06 PM
Hagler UD. A fairly clear one as well.
Pimp C
06-18-2007, 05:10 PM
I'm a big Hagler fan but Jones was a god at 160 and I would pick him over anyone in history at that weight. Jones had great power at 160 and his speed there was second to none. He would give Hagler fits not to mention he could take a punch there as well.. Jones by UD
digiram
06-18-2007, 05:21 PM
After watching that HBO thing on Hagler/Hearns....I don't think that anyone was going to defeat the Hagler that fought Tommy that night. Having said that, I'd agree with others. I think Roy was amazing and is one of the most skillfull boxers to ever grace the ring, but it's a 50/50 fight against Hagler who is hardworking, always in great shape, always determined, and had a steel chin.
Cruiser1
06-18-2007, 06:39 PM
Jones takes this by UD. Hagler obviously had probelms with Ray Leanard's speed and foot movement and Jones is bigger, has both speed and good foot movement, and a bigger punch.
At that point Hagler was already worn down by years of hard fights and training. Your point is duly noted though.
Lampley
06-18-2007, 07:16 PM
I'll take Hagler in a tight UD, and expanding slightly if the fight is 15 rounds. Roy wasn't as strong at 160 as he was at 168, and the difference in strength would enable Hagler to bull Roy, work him up and down with that tireless workrate, and to walk through Roy's counters with that iron chin.
Tough fight for Marvin, but he ekes it out. But if he moves up to 168 to fight a prime Jones, I'd favor Roy slightly. Roy gained a ton moving up the eight pounds, and I think Hagler would lose a little.
El Bombasto
06-18-2007, 07:16 PM
Hagler
cpnasty
06-19-2007, 03:45 AM
Jones by UD
WhataRock
06-19-2007, 04:01 AM
Roy didnt do enough at middlweight to be considered one of the best there ever.
However that doesnt mean he couldnt beat or at least match it with all of the very best middlweights ever.
I have to agree this is a very hard fight to pick, but I would still just go with Roy. It may be a close and hard fight to pick but I think Roy could very well win a wide decision if he got going, such was his dominance is his early career
jimmy kerr
06-19-2007, 04:23 AM
roy jones split decision his agility and speed would win him the fight
smokey
06-19-2007, 04:30 AM
roy jones split decision his agility and speed would win him the fight
I agree. It wouldn't be a blowout by any stretch, but people forget just how fast and explosive Roy was in his prime.
pioterbezkitu
06-19-2007, 05:14 AM
RJJ Ud
Raggamuffin
06-19-2007, 06:38 AM
Hagler by UD
Roy really didn't have a prime at MW. His best work was done as a SM
Hagler was basicly a monster at MW and Roy would not cope with the pressure(probally wrong spelling, english is not my native tongue).
Iron chin, destruct and destroy mode and massive willpower would be enough for the "Marvellous"one
Senya13
06-19-2007, 06:51 AM
Jones by easy decision. His speed, in and out movement, angles, handspeed and power would make Hagler confused and reluctant to engage. Whatever people say about him being past his prime, Leonard wasn't in his prime either and at a new weight for himself, Hagler blew it big.
deram
06-19-2007, 06:54 AM
I dont know... Tough fight. I would favor Hagler by a little.
Raggamuffin
06-19-2007, 07:04 AM
Hagler already beat Roy Jones:yep
I also heard that in de 70's or 80's Hagler beat a Roy Jones.
Crazy coinsidence
DaHead242
06-19-2007, 07:08 AM
I've always felt that 160 lb. Roy Jones could beat Hagler, but not Monzon. Jones had amazing speed and reflexes at 160 and prob. wouldn't take any chances against Hagler. Hagler always got stronger as the fight went on but being such a slow starter in many fights (minus the Hearns fight, ofcourse) Roy could build up a decent lead, say win the first 4 and than he'd only have to win 3 of the last 8, something I believe Roy could do.
50/50 fight for me. I think Jones beats Monzon, but Hagler maybe not so much. I used to say Jones UD, but this is a 50/50 fight for me.
Serious...
Jones would be way to fast and slick for Hagler. If an aging SRL managed to outbox him, Roy would do the same only better.
I've always felt that 160 lb. Roy Jones could beat Hagler, but not Monzon. Jones had amazing speed and reflexes at 160 and prob. wouldn't take any chances against Hagler. Hagler always got stronger as the fight went on but being such a slow starter in many fights (minus the Hearns fight, ofcourse) Roy could build up a decent lead, say win the first 4 and than he'd only have to win 3 of the last 8, something I believe Roy could do.
Monzon is so conventional. Roy would box his ears off. Monzon would have never seen anything like ROy Jones before. It would be a mis match.
jyuza
06-19-2007, 07:36 AM
Serious...
Jones would be way to fast and slick for Hagler. If an aging SRL managed to outbox him, Roy would do the same only better.
Are you serious when you say SRL outboxed Hagler ? He was barely standing at the end of the fight, tired as hell and avoiding Hagler all night long...
Not the true definition of out boxing.
Are you serious when you say SRL outboxed Hagler ? He was barely standing at the end of the fight, tired as hell and avoiding Hagler all night long...
Not the true definition of out boxing.
Well what did he do then.... Out brawl him.
He boxed him FFS. I never said it was a shut out.
I just think Roy would give EVERYONE problems due to his awkward style. The angles and the way he leaped in with combinations would be too much for most guys, as it would be something they would have never seen or fought against before.
Like the Toney fight who was just bamboozled by Roy.
I have been watching his career again and the guy in his prime was a freak... He just toyed with people it was sick. If truely challenged I have no doubt Roy could have easily stepped it up a notch. Most times I believe it was just too easy for him, and he didn't fight to his potential.
jyuza
06-19-2007, 07:59 AM
Well what did he do then.... Out brawl him.
He boxed him FFS. I never said it was a shut out.
I just think Roy would give EVERYONE problems due to his awkward style. The angles and the way he leaped in with combinations would be too much for most guys, as it would be something they would have never seen or fought against before.
Like the Toney fight who was just bamboozled by Roy.
I have been watching his career again and the guy in his prime was a freak... He just toyed with people it was sick. If truely challenged I have no doubt Roy could have easily stepped it up a notch. Most times I believe it was just too easy for him, and he didn't fight to his potential.
Well, Roy Jones would trouble any boxer from any era. No doubt about that.
DaHead242
06-19-2007, 08:01 AM
Monzon is so conventional. Roy would box his ears off. Monzon would have never seen anything like ROy Jones before. It would be a mis match.
Monzon was a very big middle-weigh at 6' and his reach at 77". Carlos always fought ata avery consistent pace subtly moving his opponent backwards and measuring distance with the jab. Monzon's jab was said to be very heavy andd I believe he would use it to keep Jones out of range and avoid Roys left hooks and right hands. It can also be argued that Monzon was the best middleweight at ad******g to styles and IMO without a doubt the greatest at finding holes in other opponents styles while in the ring. Monzon had a dynamite right hand and a very underrated left hook as well as very good, if not great defense. Jones would have to press the action to get in range against Carlos and it's very possible that the right hand of Monzon would catch Jones coming in. Monzon fought excellent competition beating Benevenuti twice, Valdez twice, Napoles, Briscoe and and Emile Griffith twice, granted Emile was perhaps past his best. Monzon was down once in his career in his last fight against Valdez at age 36 (i believe) so I dont beleieve Jones would even dent, let alone crack CM's anvil- like chin. Jones wins the early rounds, Monzon adjusts and drops Jones thusly winning a UD in 12, probably taking jones out if the fight goes 15. Carlos was far from conventional, he had a lot of subtleties in his game that seperates him from the greats.
It's easy to say that Monzon has never seen a Roy Jones, but has Roy Jones ever seen a complete fighter like Monzon.......i think not.
Monzon was a very big middle-weigh at 6' and his reach at 77". Carlos always fought ata avery consistent pace subtly moving his opponent backwards and measuring distance with the jab. Monzon's jab was said to be very heavy andd I believe he would use it to keep Jones out of range and avoid Roys left hooks and right hands. It can also be argued that Monzon was the best middleweight at ad******g to styles and IMO without a doubt the greatest at finding holes in other opponents styles while in the ring. Monzon had a dynamite right hand and a very underrated left hook as well as very good, if not great defense. Jones would have to press the action to get in range against Carlos and it's very possible that the right hand of Monzon would catch Jones coming in. Monzon fought excellent competition beating Benevenuti twice, Valdez twice, Napoles, Briscoe and and Emile Griffith twice, granted Emile was perhaps past his best. Monzon was down once in his career in his last fight against Valdez at age 36 (i believe) so I dont beleieve Jones would even dent, let alone crack CM's anvil- like chin. Jones wins the early rounds, Monzon adjusts and drops Jones thusly winning a UD in 12, probably taking jones out if the fight goes 15. Carlos was far from conventional, he had a lot of subtleties in his game that seperates him from the greats.
It's easy to say that Monzon has never seen a Roy Jones, but has Roy Jones ever seen a complete fighter like Monzon.......i think not.
Jones would have fought a tonne of guys who fight like Monzon, although obviously not as good. Roy punches from so many different angles I have trouble believing anyone could adapt. He would counter Monzon with left hooks off Monzons jab, and would use his movement and combinations to confuse him.
Roy would be too fast for Monzon IMO. I have only seen a couple of Monzon fights i will admit, but from what I saw he was too slow, and couldn't offer anything to beat Roy that he hadn't seen before.
Roy would be in and out with combinations before Monzon knew what hit him. I just can't see Monzon troubling prime Roy.
From prior experience with theoretical match ups, and to save a long winded arguement, I will agree to disagree. I can see the point you are trying to make about Monzons style I just don't agree with it.
knockout
06-19-2007, 09:13 AM
roid jones would outbox him and tko him in the late rounds.
Thread Stealer
06-19-2007, 11:09 AM
I also heard that in de 70's or 80's Hagler beat a Roy Jones.
Crazy coinsidence
The book "Dark Trade" by Donald McRae talks about this. Roy Jones Sr. claimed it was him who lost to Marvin Hagler, but apparently it was some other Roy Jones.
Thread Stealer
06-19-2007, 11:11 AM
After watching that HBO thing on Hagler/Hearns....I don't think that anyone was going to defeat the Hagler that fought Tommy that night. Having said that, I'd agree with others. I think Roy was amazing and is one of the most skillfull boxers to ever grace the ring, but it's a 50/50 fight against Hagler who is hardworking, always in great shape, always determined, and had a steel chin.
Come on now, how are you going to just watch a documentary and say no middleweight could beat him? That aggressive, balls-to-the-wall style (which was a change for Hagler) worked on Hearns, but I'm not sure it works on some of the other terrific fighters who were better middleweights than Tommy.
surreal deal
12-01-2007, 07:10 PM
i would be very confident roy would outpoint hagler at 160
me too
BlueApollo
12-01-2007, 08:39 PM
Over fifteen, Hagler. Over twelve, probably Hagler.
KO Boxing
12-01-2007, 08:44 PM
One thing to note, Hagler was obviously NOT prime against Leonard; and Roy was obviously NOT prime when he fought at Middleweight.
So providing the 8 (or even 15) pounds of weight loss didn't hurt Roy, he'd have a GREAT chance. If it did, Hagler.
KO Boxing
12-01-2007, 08:52 PM
Right? Right........?
Wrong. Leonard won EITHER 6-5-1 or 7-5 on my card (used to be a lot wider, but upon rewatches after a few years, MUCH closer). :D
PH|LLA
12-01-2007, 08:56 PM
poll it
chimba
12-01-2007, 09:00 PM
Love Hagler but RJJ might be able to bang a decision...If Haglers sharp and connects often then he wins even by KO...Tough fight to pick
cuchulain
12-01-2007, 09:01 PM
Jones was at his best at 168 and 175.
IMO, no version of anyone who has ever fough at those weights would be favoured over Roy.
Assuming Roy had not moved up when he did and spent two or three more years at 160, I believe the same would hold true for Roy at that weight.
Therefore, Roy over Marvin , about 118-110.
Fighting Weight
12-01-2007, 09:11 PM
Jones was at his best at 168 and 175.
IMO, no version of anyone who has ever fough at those weights would be favoured over Roy.
Assuming Roy had not moved up when he did and spent two or three more years at 160, I believe the same would hold true for Roy at that weight.
Therefore, Roy over Marvin , about 118-110.
I'd go along with that. If Leonard could sneak rounds off Hagler with speed and movement then Jones would too.
cuchulain
12-01-2007, 09:28 PM
Calzaghe
I mean..Jones
???
Not sure what's been said here.
Calzaghe is the best at 168 right now and would have no trouble with Bernard.
However, prime Roy decisions him by a wide margin.
A step up in overall talent.
Fighting Weight
12-01-2007, 09:43 PM
???
Not sure what's been said here.
Calzaghe is the best at 168 right now and would have no trouble with Bernard.
However, prime Roy decisions him by a wide margin.
A step up in overall talent.
I disagree. Prime Roy stops him, easily.
It would be a close fight. I will closely analyse some prime RJJ fights on YouTube, and dip into my collection of Joe Calzaghe DVD's
I'll get back to you
Sonny Carson
12-01-2007, 09:52 PM
No need to get back Roy in his prime would beat Calzaghe. Vs Hagler though the people goin by Hagler's fight against Leonard, don't have a good arguement. They keep sayin Leonard was not in his prime either but look at Leonard, he was able to move, and still had very good hand speed. He looked like atleast half of the prime Sugar Ray. Hagler looked nothing like the fighter he once was. He took a beating in the fight before, people forget that. Hagler would take Roy out late at 160.
cuchulain
12-01-2007, 11:12 PM
I disagree. Prime Roy stops him, easily.
A stoppage is possible in this one. I would hesitate to say easily.
Prime Joe is seriously underrated because there was no-one at 168 to really put him to the test, a test I believe he would have passed.
But prime Roy was in a different category from fighters of any weight, then or now.
The Roy that faced Montel in their rematch would KO most any fighters at 175 that night. He was on a mission.
Sister Sledge
12-01-2007, 11:14 PM
Roy was not as good as SRL was at 160. He was just as fast, but he wasn't smarter or more skilled. Roy also doesn't like infighting. With this in mind, Marving was years past his prime and coming off a year layoff when he foung SRL. A prime Marvin would have clearly beaten Leonard and Roy. Roy don't like pressure, and Marvin would have cut the distance between him and Roy with his long ass arms and got inside and raped Roy. It would have been competitive, but Hagler would have stopped RJJ in the late rounds. This wasn't even RJJ's best weight.
cuchulain
12-01-2007, 11:14 PM
No need to get back Roy in his prime would beat Calzaghe. Vs Hagler though the people goin by Hagler's fight against Leonard, don't have a good arguement. They keep sayin Leonard was not in his prime either but look at Leonard, he was able to move, and still had very good hand speed. He looked like atleast half of the prime Sugar Ray. Hagler looked nothing like the fighter he once was. He took a beating in the fight before, people forget that. Hagler would take Roy out late at 160.
If he didn't take Leonard out, and Roy would be bigger, stronger, faster and generally a little more skilled, I don't see what you propose happening.
The only question I have is:
KO or decision for Roy?
cuchulain
12-01-2007, 11:16 PM
Roy was not as good as SRL was at 160. He was just as fast, but he wasn't smarter or more skilled. Roy also doesn't like infighting. With this in mind, Marving was years past his prime and coming off a year layoff when he foung SRL. A prime Marvin would have clearly beaten Leonard and Roy. Roy don't like pressure, and Marvin would have cut the distance between him and Roy with his long ass arms and got inside and raped Roy. It would have been competitive, but Hagler would have stopped RJJ in the late rounds. This wasn't even RJJ's best weight.
Earlier in the thread I qualified my responses by saying that if this fight took place with Roy spending about an extra three years at 160, I would see Roy prevailing.
vBulletin® v3.8.0, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.