Barrera and Morales

[teeto]

If Barrera and Morales retire and thats it for them , who's above who legacy wise?

Throughout their careers i was a massive Barrera fan, he was one of the fighters that could make me biased in boxing (him and Tyson) , and because of the rivalry i kind of disliked Morales. As Morales' career went on and got more spectacular though, i started to like him , but i was always Barrera fan.

However, in the past couple of years or so, i may be turning to Morales, maybe because of the 'going out on his shiel factor'.

Anyway , bias aside , here's how i will try to determine it.

At super-bantam i will say that Barrera beat Morales , that may give him the edge at this weight , but not imo. It is possible for a fighter to have an achilles heel at a weight class but still be a greater fighter than him at that particular weight. I believe Morales to be one of the greatest ever at 122, Comparisons -

MORALES BEAT - Zaragoza, Junior Jones, Wayne McCullough, and some very good lesser fighters/contenders, and looked amazing here.

BARRERA BEAT - well, his best wins at 122 are Kennedy McKinney, Eddie Cook and Paul Lloyd , but he does have the Morales win also. He also looked outstanding at this weight.

The other factor here though is that Barera lost twice to Junior Jones, who Morales beat. I think Morales wins at 122, even though Barrera 'beat' him.

At 126, -

MORALES BEAT -

Past prime Kelly, In Jin Chi, Barrera (imo), Guty Espadas (disputed, but i never scord it), past prime Paulie Ayala.

BARRERA BEAT - Hamed, past prime Tapia, past prime Kevin Kelly, past prime Paulie Ayala, but he got destroyed by Pacquiao and imo lost to Morales.

This one is tight , there are a lot of past best victims here , the determining factor might be them h2h, which i give to Morales. Let me know if you think different though. Barrera has the great win over Hamed, that may clinch it for him, but the 2 losses may dispute that.

At 130 -

MORALES BEAT - Espadas, Chavez, Hernandez, and Pacquiao. He lost to Barrera though, and twice to Pacquiao.

BARRERA BEAT - Morales , Peden, Juarez twice, and lost to Pacquiao and Marquez.

The argument could be made that both fighters were somewhat past their best at stages of their 130 careers. I give this to Barrera though, they both lost , but Barrera beat him. It could be given to Morales on the strength of the Pacquiao win in hindsight, but he lost a trilogy with him.

These comparisons are strictly by what happened at the weight division in question. I still think Barrera is the better p4p fughter that history will remember, but in terms of weight class history, Morales might take it. I think the only weight that either of them stayed at long enough (and really achieved at) , was 122, where i believe Morales was greater , and one of the greatest.

So, i think Barrera p4p, but Morales legacy-wise overall. Thoughts

[Bill Butcher]

Very good post.

I actually thought morales shaded the head to heads aswell as beat slightly better opposition.

I scored morales a narrow winner at 122 & I rank him as you do as 1 of the greatest ever at 122 (I do accept the 122 lbs fight was super close tho.)

I thought morales won fight 2 clearly but its a toss up who did better at fwt outside of their fight.

I had fight 3 6 rds each but admit that this was the start of morales slipping & barrera deserved the fight if anybody had to get it.
I think morales beat better fighters at 130 aswell.


My view is that I think morales was the better fighter at both their peaks where as barrera had better longevity as he avoided the wars later in his career unless he really had to go for it.


I rate morales above barrera but Im afraid the casual boxing fan will probably side with barrera for 1 reason only.... the 2-1 head to head scoreline.

[teeto]

Very good post.

I actually thought morales shaded the head to heads aswell as beat slightly better opposition.

I scored morales a narrow winner at 122 & I rank him as you do as 1 of the greatest ever at 122 (I do accept the 122 lbs fight was super close tho.)

I thought morales won fight 2 clearly but its a toss up who did better at fwt outside of their fight.

I had fight 3 6 rds each but admit that this was the start of morales slipping & barrera deserved the fight if anybody had to get it.
I think morales beat better fighters at 130 aswell.


My view is that I think morales was the better fighter at both their peaks where as barrera had better longevity as he avoided the wars later in his career unless he really had to go for it.


I rate morales above barrera but Im afraid the casual boxing fan will probably side with barrera for 1 reason only.... the 2-1 head to head scoreline.
Yeah, i think another reason the casual boxing fan will rate Barrera higher is because of the Hamed win , i still have Barrera higher in a p4p sense though for some reason. I just think at his best he is better h2h , but i think what i meant is that Morales has done more to be remembered as one of the greatest in a particular division (122) , and Barrera hasnt done that imo

[Addie]

Yeah, i think another reason the casual boxing fan will rate Barrera higher is because of the Hamed win , i still have Barrera higher in a p4p sense though for some reason. I just think at his best he is better h2h , but i think what i meant is that Morales has done more to be remembered as one of the greatest in a particular division (122) , and Barrera hasnt done that imo

After the two early Junior Jones losses, very early on in his career, Barrera never went on to lose to second tier opposition whereas Morales lost to Raheem. Also taking into consideration that Barrera is 2 - 1 over Morales, I feel Barrera has the better legacy.

I thought the Marquez fight was really unfortunate for Barrera because if the knockdown was counted, I would have had it a draw.

[teeto]

After the two early Junior Jones losses, very early on in his career, Barrera never went on to lose to second tier opposition whereas Morales lost to Raheem. Also taking into consideration that Barrera is 2 - 1 over Morales, I feel Barrera has the better legacy.

I thought the Marquez fight was really unfortunate for Barrera because if the knockdown was counted, I would have had it a draw.
Good point, i just didnt involve the Raheem fight because i meant legacy by division , and 1 fight at a weight you have never fought at otherwise was something i didnt really think to be involved in this

[Bill Butcher]

I wouldnt read too much into morales losses to raheem, pacquiao or diaz as he was very much on the slide, a fool could see that & it happens to 95% of boxers, even greats like Ali, Duran & Robinson.

To be fair to Barrera, even tho he was a young strong guy when jones beat him, I thought he got better afterwards so it wasnt really HIS prime either.

IMO the only fighters to put any sort of dent in morales or barrera at their best was each other & possibly pacquiao in the 03 barrera fight & even then it wasnt the same MAB who fought EM in the 1st 2 fights.
Even the pacquiao who lost 1st time around to EM was facing a guy on his last reserves of fuel.

I dont mean to overrate EM or MAB but only each other were good enough to push each other to the limit at their peak as their 1st 2 fights showed & for me they were the top 2 p4p fighters from 2000-2003 were pac knocked marco down a couple of positions.

MEXICAN LEGENDS.... BOTH OF THEM.

:bbb

[bxrfan]

After the two early Junior Jones losses, very early on in his career, Barrera never went on to lose to second tier opposition whereas Morales lost to Raheem. Also taking into consideration that Barrera is 2 - 1 over Morales, I feel Barrera has the better legacy.

I thought the Marquez fight was really unfortunate for Barrera because if the knockdown was counted, I would have had it a draw.
Junior Jones wasn't second tier opposition if that's what you're saying about him.