Why did Joe Calzaghe Waste His Prime Years Feasting on Weak Opposition?

[Thread Stealer]

Why did it take him so long to step it up?

until 2006 his best win was over a faded chris "simply no longer the best" eubank who took the fight on short notice.

why did it take him until recently to step it up?

[Axe]

Brcause it took him that long to convince Frank ****** the risks were worth the reward. There were better fighters around in Joe's prime too, right now 168-175 is rather empty.

[Thread Stealer]

Brcause it took him that long to convince Frank ****** the risks were worth the reward. There were better fighters around in Joe's prime too, right now 168-175 is rather empty.

that is an awful long time.

ricky hatton convinced frank ****** in less time, and did it first.

maybe hatton's willingness to step up it motivated calzaghe?

[Beeston Brawler]

I don't think Hatton ever convinced ****** really, basically backed him into a corner to make the Tszyu fight, won, and promptly fucked off!:lol:

There is a lot of bad blood between Hatton and ****** - Ricky was sick of defending a meaningless strap. In fairness, ****** is great at getting title shots, but is clueless as to what to do next, doesn't like his guys fighting in America etc - hence why Joe was unknown in America until the demolition of Jeff Lacy.

Hatton wanted to do this, and saw little alternative but to get out, and found a promoter who would give him what he wanted, realising he had a star on his hands.

Calzaghe's book refers to Hatton fighting in America, a slight tinge of jealously but also ambition - JC has always been ******'s pet project, Calzaghe must have threatened to leave for ****** to even consider a bout across the pond.

To be fair, I think Joe could have dealt pretty easily with most of these guys, just a shame that the question mark will never disappear.

[coronacards]

This Frank ****** argument is bullshit...

Joe Calzaghe can do what Joe Calzaghe wants. He CHOSE to take the easy route, plain and simple.

I would never call him names for doing that, it's his choice. He has balls enough to get in the ring period, let alone start moving weight classes and fighting THE BEST ALIVE...

The point is: Joe took the easy way, and now his legacy will pay for it. Maybe he is/was one of the best ever, but we'll NEVER know. He never fought a PRIME ATG HOF FIGHTER WHEN CALZAGHE HIMSELF WAS IN HIS PRIME. The closest he came was Eubank, and that is still wayyyyyy off...

Joe made a great deal of money, kept his WBO belt for a decade, and has countless fans. He's a success, no doubt about it. He's a very good fighter, no doubt about it. He will NEVER be an ATG fighter. He's past that point...

[coronacards]

:bbb

[TFFP]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[carras]

This Frank ****** argument is bullshit...

Joe Calzaghe can do what Joe Calzaghe wants. He CHOSE to take the easy route, plain and simple.

I would never call him names for doing that, it's his choice. He has balls enough to get in the ring period, let alone start moving weight classes and fighting THE BEST ALIVE...

The point is: Joe took the easy way, and now his legacy will pay for it. Maybe he is/was one of the best ever, but we'll NEVER know. He never fought a PRIME ATG HOF FIGHTER WHEN CALZAGHE HIMSELF WAS IN HIS PRIME. The closest he came was Eubank, and that is still wayyyyyy off...

Joe made a great deal of money, kept his WBO belt for a decade, and has countless fans. He's a success, no doubt about it. He's a very good fighter, no doubt about it. He will NEVER be an ATG fighter. He's past that point...

spot on:good

[Thread Stealer]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

cute. i do have a soft spot for infants.

but that does not answer the question.

why did joe c take so long to step up the opposition?

[SevenSamurai]

Calzaghe beat some good fighters in his prime years, but he did not mix it with the elite until he fought Lacy and then Kessler.

If he had pulled away from ****** 3 years earlier than the Lacy fight and taken more risks stateside then he would have been able to lay claim to a much higher standing than he will ever reach now.

Beating a fading Mary Poppins is not going to make up for the 3 years wasted prior to beating the great american hope of Lacy/...:good

[SevenSamurai]

I think the point is that it was HIS choice to stay with ****** and not go stateside and elite level earlier.:good

His talent suggests this was a mistake.

[MasterCalzaghe]

Why did it take him so long to step it up?

until 2006 his best win was over a faded chris "simply no longer the best" eubank who took the fight on short notice.

why did it take him until recently to step it up?

Because no one wanted to fight him back then cause they knew they'd lose their gravy train rides in the states where the media reign supreme and chump can be champ.

[mike464]

Because LHW was out of the question as Roy Jones would have destroyed him. Hopkins, the middleweight king, was younger and better. Quite why he didn't go for the SMW titles earlier I don't know. Maybe he needed to be WBO champion for a long time to get the confidence up?

[coronacards]

Because no one wanted to fight him back then cause they knew they'd lose their gravy train rides in the states where the media reign supreme and chump can be champ.


Yeah, guys like RJJ would fight James Toney, but feared Calzaghe??? Give me a break...

[Smith]

Its not ALL one way guys, contrary to popular belief the elite were not exactly jumping at the chance to fight Joe.

[TFFP]

Actually RJJ did say he had a belt to protect, or something along those lines...

Either way, he hardly seemed delighted at the risk/reward ratio on offer

[Thread Stealer]

Because no one wanted to fight him back then cause they knew they'd lose their gravy train rides in the states where the media reign supreme and chump can be champ.

How many elite fighters at 168 were American?

[MasterCalzaghe]

Yeah, guys like RJJ would fight James Toney, but feared Calzaghe??? Give me a break...

What's your point? Joe's better than both.

[SevenSamurai]

What's your point? Joe's better than both.

Roy Jones in his prime decisions Joe Calzaghe in his prime from SM up to LHW. This fight could have been made by joe if he had have had the ambition, as Roy was looking at a fight against Eubank before he was beaten by Collins. So clearly a british challenge was on his radar then. He even talked about Nigel Benn.

James Toney in his middle career would be a favourite against Joe at SMW, however Calzaghe was to green then coming off Eubank to take a fight like that. After that of course Toney's career went into a long decline until he fought Jirov, and beat him convincingly.

[mike464]

What's your point? Joe's better than both.When Hatton had the P4P number 1 (PBF) a weight above, he moved up in weight, fought in the states a few times and got the fight. Yes he lost but that was the right way to go about it. Calzaghe had Jones at LHW but just stayed at home defending his WBO "world title" against hand picked opponents. Calzaghe didn't make an effort to fight Jones.

[dan-b]

Not this again.:roll:

[TFFP]

All the Joe threads are funny, it's obvious he is feared

I suppose its a step up from the days he got virtually no mention at all, now he is the most talked about man in world boxing

[Thread Stealer]

All the Joe threads are funny, it's obvious he is feared

I suppose its a step up from the days he got virtually no mention at all, now he is the most talked about man in world boxing

No he's not.

for one, the mainstream probably talks more about mike tyson who ain't fight since 05'. or de la hoya.

among fans on this board, mayweather is still the most discussed boxer.

people still start threads about his alleged ducking of margarito on what seems like an every other day basis.

[TFFP]

No he's not.

for one, the mainstream probably talks more about mike tyson who ain't fight since 05'. or de la hoya.

among fans on this board, mayweather is still the most discussed boxer.

people still start threads about his alleged ducking of margarito on what seems like an every other day basis.
It's a toss up between Mayweather and Joe

Both equally great fighters, hence the extreme bitterness towards them

[MasterCalzaghe]

Jones cherry picked many of his opponents hence why he never fought many of the UK's finest over the years and when he came up against a flat footed but relatively quick lanky southpaw he got his ass handed to him.

Also there is no precedent that says Joe should have been the one to cross the pond when Jones could have done the same while how many times must the reminder of Hopkins little sprinting session be brought up?

[mike464]

It's a toss up between Mayweather and Joe

Both equally great fighters, hence the extreme bitterness towards themDon't even mention Calzaghe in the same sentance as Mayweather. They are clearly not equally great fighters.

[dan-b]

Jones cherry picked many of his opponents hence why he never fought many of the UK's finest over the years and when he came up against a flat footed but relatively quick lanky southpaw he got his ass handed to him.

Also there is no precedent that says Joe should have been the one to cross the pond when Jones could have done the same while how many times must the reminder of Hopkins little sprinting session be brought up?

Well if you must do that then we should also bring up the running session Calzaghe had with David Starie.:good

[TFFP]

Don't even mention Calzaghe in the same sentance as Mayweather. They are clearly not equally great fighters.
Joe isn't that much better :?

[dan-b]

Joe isn't that much better :?

And it goes on.....

[TFFP]

And it goes on.....
Don't talk to me until your public apology

[dan-b]

Don't talk to me until your public apology

:D

[mike464]

Joe isn't that much better :?I know you're joking but seriously...

I get behind the Brits too but some people are getting carried away. He's a good fighter who bided his time and found an opportunity to win a few big fights. He's not on the level of a Mayweather or prime Jones Jr

[jc]

joe had fought some duds, but his title campaign is comparable to most long reigning champs.

I think it is a few things, injury has been a problem, not only to time out of the ring but also in his fights looking average. Also the best 168ers were Germans Ottke/Beyer, neither jumping at the chance of facing Joe. There was a period of time when they were just beating each others oponents, and trying to look better doing, lucky for joe, Sven Ottke never looked good when winning anything.

I think you will find that Jeff Lacy was the only real threat/ big enough name, with a belt of his won who was willing to get in with Calzaghe, super middles havnt been blessed with talent, in fact i would say it is much better now, then when it was just Joe and Sven at the top.

So after many years of Calzaghe sometimes fighing on Showtime, sometimes looking good (Brewer,Mitchell, Shieka fights) sometimes looking mediocre (Starie, Jiminez fights), Showtime come up with an oponent, who is looking good, undefeated and with the right amount of fan base. joe spanks him and IMMEDIATELY he gets a HBO contract. Without HBO interest fights against the likes of Bernard Hopkins are impossible. Thats why all of his biggest fights are coming later in his career.

Calzaghe is not the only guy who gets his best wins late on, Bernard Hopkins AND Marvin Hagler, two of the greatest middleweights ever both peaked late and made most of their money well into their 30's.

It is not uncommon and as the saying goes better late than never!:D

[sean]

a few reasons why in no particular order

1/ he decided to be a career 168 fighter

2/ he let ****** pick and chose

3/he was happy to pick up ******`s money

4/he likes fighting in the uk

5/****** would not stump up the big purses needed to get the ottke/beyer fights.

6/hopkins leftovers simply never ever ventured into 168 and did anything.

7/the money on offer in america at 168 was 1/10th of what you got in europe at that time .

8/the tv companys not putting there foot down and rejecting ****** opponents as they are doing now, albeit still not as much as i would like.

9/the apathy of american tv execs in showing boxing from outside america.

10/calzaghe never threatened to walk.
he has openly said mickey duff his first manager barely spoke or even acknowledged him, whereas ****** showers him with gifts throughout.

[196osh]

joe had fought some duds, but his title campaign is comparable to most long reigning champs.

I think it is a few things, injury has been a problem, not only to time out of the ring but also in his fights looking average. Also the best 168ers were Germans Ottke/Beyer, neither jumping at the chance of facing Joe. There was a period of time when they were just beating each others oponents, and trying to look better doing, lucky for joe, Sven Ottke never looked good when winning anything.

I think you will find that Jeff Lacy was the only real threat/ big enough name, with a belt of his won who was willing to get in with Calzaghe, super middles havnt been blessed with talent, in fact i would say it is much better now, then when it was just Joe and Sven at the top.

So after many years of Calzaghe sometimes fighing on Showtime, sometimes looking good (Brewer,Mitchell, Shieka fights) sometimes looking mediocre (Starie, Jiminez fights), Showtime come up with an oponent, who is looking good, undefeated and with the right amount of fan base. joe spanks him and IMMEDIATELY he gets a HBO contract. Without HBO interest fights against the likes of Bernard Hopkins are impossible. Thats why all of his biggest fights are coming later in his career.

Calzaghe is not the only guy who gets his best wins late on, Bernard Hopkins AND Marvin Hagler, two of the greatest middleweights ever both peaked late and made most of their money well into their 30's.

It is not uncommon and as the saying goes better late than never!:D

Great post :good

[dan-b]

a few reasons why in no particular order

1/ he decided to be a career 168 fighter

2/ he let ****** pick and chose

3/he was happy to pick up ******`s money

4/he likes fighting in the uk

5/****** would not stump up the big purses needed to get the ottke/beyer fights.

6/hopkins leftovers simply never ever ventured into 168 and did anything.

7/the money on offer in america at 168 was 1/10th of what you got in europe at that time .

8/the tv companys not putting there foot down and rejecting ****** opponents as they are doing now, albeit still not as much as i would like.

9/the apathy of american tv execs in showing boxing from outside america.

10/calzaghe never threatened to walk.
he has openly said mickey duff his first manager barely spoke or even acknowledged him, whereas ****** showers him with gifts throughout.

Great post. It would be nice if some Calzaghe fanatics would at least concede that Joe is partially to blame for his low profile career.

[C HOP]

Don King offerd Calzaghe a 3 year fight deal which included a fight with roy jones but was told to move to america, but after a few careful considerations calzaghe turned down the offer n stuck with ****** this was a few fights after the eubank fight, he had also the oppertunity for a celebrity lifestyle been offerd to do modelling for Marks n Spencers n also frank ****** gave calzaghe the oppertunity for the title which his last promioter couldnt do so he decided to stick with ******!

[dan-b]

Don King offerd Calzaghe a 3 year fight deal which included a fight with roy jones but was told to move to america, but after a few careful considerations calzaghe turned down the offer n stuck with ****** this was a few fights after the eubank fight, he had also the oppertunity for a celebrity lifestyle been offerd to do modelling for Marks n Spencers n also frank ****** gave calzaghe the oppertunity for the title which his last promioter couldnt do so he decided to stick with ******!

Very interesting but can you quote citation before the Calzaghe zealots tear it to pieces?

[C HOP]

Very interesting but can you quote citation before the Calzaghe zealots tear it to pieces?

sorry but i dont understand the term u mean

citation?

n Zealots?

[jc]

sorry but i dont understand the term u mean

citation?

n Zealots?

he means PROOF!!

[C HOP]

ahh am lookin a cnt find it

jus wht ya here over the years

[sean]

in calzaghe`s book possibly ?
sounds like something that might come up in a boxers autobiography.

never read many biographies though , usually they are sugar coated .

much better doing a biography when you retire so you can do it warts and all .

[safe_pa]

I put 40% blame on Joe and 60% on ******. Joe could have walked away like Ricky did but made a choice not to. Frank just wants to make as much $ as he can so you don't see Joe in big fights til its too late.

[Paulie]

Did he ever had some prime years ?

[TFFP]

Did he ever had some prime years ?
Very true Paulie

Joe Calzaghe never had prime years. He is a boxing God, that has always been fighting at an amazing level, it is impossible to distinguish

[safe_pa]

Did he ever had some prime years ?

Ha ha you made a funny.
He won't fight Bute because he wont fight weak oposition anymore :good
No go and dream about your favourite paper champion.

[unitas]

Brcause it took him that long to convince Frank ****** the risks were worth the reward. There were better fighters around in Joe's prime too, right now 168-175 is rather empty.


better fighters at 168 in joes prime????

guys like byron mitchell and eric lucas??? or dingaan thobela???

GET REAL:patsch

[Paulie]

True TFFP...That why he likes to fight old timers boxers...Hopkins, Jones, etc...

[TFFP]

True TFFP...That why he likes to fight old timers boxers...Hopkins, Jones, etc...
Actually, Joe has said he is looking at Taylor/Pavlik next :D

Big fish to fry you see. I'm sure he wishes Lucy Bute all the best in his upcoming blockbuster against Will Joppy

[Paulie]

I have news for you TFFP, Jones will be his next fight. Whatever, Bute still is to dangerous for Joe...

[Mendoza]

Why did it take him so long to step it up?

until 2006 his best win was over a faded chris "simply no longer the best" eubank who took the fight on short notice.

why did it take him until recently to step it up?

Clazaghe was a bit like Roy Jones at light heavy. He didn't face the toughest guys until recentely. Unlike Jones, Clazaghe has been brilliant in wins over Lacy and Kessler. If Calzaghe beats Hopkins ( I think he will ), then he can retire un-defeated with 20+ title defenses.

[Boro chris]

a few reasons why in no particular order

1/ he decided to be a career 168 fighter

2/ he let ****** pick and chose

3/he was happy to pick up ******`s money

4/he likes fighting in the uk

5/****** would not stump up the big purses needed to get the ottke/beyer fights.

6/hopkins leftovers simply never ever ventured into 168 and did anything.

7/the money on offer in america at 168 was 1/10th of what you got in europe at that time .

8/the tv companys not putting there foot down and rejecting ****** opponents as they are doing now, albeit still not as much as i would like.

9/the apathy of american tv execs in showing boxing from outside america.

10/calzaghe never threatened to walk.
he has openly said mickey duff his first manager barely spoke or even acknowledged him, whereas ****** showers him with gifts throughout.

Aaah! Objectivity. Something that's rare when discussing this particular fighter.
One side its usually Calfagghi the eurobum! Whilst the others are a bunch of psychopaths trying to start a new religion.:D
JC at least has the initials for it.

[TRUEBELIEVER 66]

Charles Brewer, Chris Eubank, and Jeff Lacy, those were some pretty tough DAMN good fighters:deal Joe fought them all him his prime, and i'll throw in Mikkell Kesseler:thumbsup this is a bogus thread:-(
The man has never lost a professional fight and has been the champ for 11 years!!:yep:good:thumbsup:hi: what more do you want..:huh

[kirk]

This Frank ****** argument is bullshit...

Joe Calzaghe can do what Joe Calzaghe wants. He CHOSE to take the easy route, plain and simple.

I would never call him names for doing that, it's his choice. He has balls enough to get in the ring period, let alone start moving weight classes and fighting THE BEST ALIVE...

The point is: Joe took the easy way, and now his legacy will pay for it. Maybe he is/was one of the best ever, but we'll NEVER know. He never fought a PRIME ATG HOF FIGHTER WHEN CALZAGHE HIMSELF WAS IN HIS PRIME. The closest he came was Eubank, and that is still wayyyyyy off...

Joe made a great deal of money, kept his WBO belt for a decade, and has countless fans. He's a success, no doubt about it. He's a very good fighter, no doubt about it. He will NEVER be an ATG fighter. He's past that point...

Not really... we dont know what he will do after hopkins exactly, and if (IF) kessler turns out to be as good as people make him out to be after this loss... it will only amp JC's reputation.

If JC beats Hopkins, gimme money maker against roy jones, and then beats chad dawson.... and kessler goes on to reign supreme... i think he has a good shot of being looked at as a ATG.

[SOMERSETDURAN]

RJJ aside, there is no one who would have stood more than a 50/50 chance against Calzaghe over the last 20 years at 168. Prime RJJ would have schooled him, but having a loss to a prime RJJ on your record isn't a career ender. Ask Mr Hopkins.

[dan-b]

Because he is not a super great fighter he is just a great fighter and knew he would lose to the big boys.
So why not make a career out of avoiding the big boys ?
Listen if calzaghe was worth his salt he would have MADE the big fights happen a long time ago.
Joe knows his limitations and shrewdly has constructed a low risk career.
I dont begrudge him for it but less of the all time great talk Joe when you didn't fight Johnson Jones Hopkins amongst others.
I am british and like JC but as much as I want to believe I know that he ducked and avoided risk fights his whole career.
When your confident you are the best YOU MAkE the big fights happen if JC was confident he would have already fought rjj hopkins and johnson.

:good

[Icky Monker]

Look, I haven't read all of the other posts in this thread, there are too many and the question is asked so often.

I don't think Frank, or even Joe, ever really were as confident as they could be in Joe's abilities. Some lackluster fights and public reaction added to Frank's lack of confidence and there fore he wasn't prepared to risk one of his fighters against the big guns.

When Joe did start fighting good again and get inspiring wins he wasn't a big enough name for the bigger fighters to want to fight him. Too big a risk compared to the reward. As was said earlier, no one in USA (not many anyway) knew of Joe until the Lacy fight. So what would be the benefit of risking a loss against a great but unknown fighter? Whatever you think about it, BHOP did double his money request to fight Joe back in their primes after initially agreeing the deal.

So now both Joe and ****** realise what they have got in Joe Calzaghe. You can see it in they way they talk in interviews. Over the last few years the way they talk shows their confidence (especially on Frank's part)

Joe did try to fight some big names but they didn't end up happening. Who cares? It doesn't matter now.

What matters is that finally Joe has made it to centre stage. And within 4 fights that the majority of fight fans have seen, he has entered the top 5 pound for pound list.

Lets all just be happy that he is now getting a wider audience and we get to see some great fights.

According to the ring Hokpins is one place ahead of Calzaghe in the pound for pound club. If he didn't step up before he definitely is now.

[Boro chris]

Because he is not a super great fighter he is just a great fighter and knew he would lose to the big boys.
So why not make a career out of avoiding the big boys ?
Listen if calzaghe was worth his salt he would have MADE the big fights happen a long time ago.
Joe knows his limitations and shrewdly has constructed a low risk career.
I dont begrudge him for it but less of the all time great talk Joe when you didn't fight Johnson Jones Hopkins amongst others.
I am british and like JC but as much as I want to believe I know that he ducked and avoided risk fights his whole career.
When your confident you are the best YOU MAkE the big fights happen if JC was confident he would have already fought rjj hopkins and johnson.

Errrmm........Hopkins was the one who ducked Calzaghe 5 years ago.