Reason why I'll never rank Vitali's bro above Lennox

[boxingcar]

well..Wlad has the technic. The athletisim. the speed (especially for a guy of his size). The power too...

Unfortunately , (and yes , i know it's a cliched thing to say)
but this guy's chin is garbage.

If Wlad had Tua's chin...I'd probably already rank him in the top 5 atg.
A guy of his size...and technic...there never was such a thing during Ali's era either...

Unfortunately , his chin is even more fragile than Lennox's...

Wlad vs Vitali....I'd still go for Vitali to win because even though He's not as polished as wlad is...At least He's more endurant and has a super solid chin..

[lefthook31]

Wlad has now mastered the same style that lewis did under Emanuel Steward. Only difference is the competition is worse. I dont see Wlad losing for a long time. The only way to beat him is to be aggressive, and Lewis had some challenges with guys like Mercer, and Briggs, Rahman, who made him fight for a while.
Im sure Emanuel is thinking the same thing. Hes perfected his ring generalship, but what happens when a fighter can take the fire and get inside? We still saw some vulnerability in the Peter fight, and its going to happen again. An all time great has to master all facets of his game.

[boxingcar]

Wlad has now mastered the same style that lewis did under Emanuel Steward. Only difference is the competition is worse. I dont see Wlad losing for a long time. The only way to beat him is to be aggressive, and Lewis had some challenges with guys like Mercer, and Briggs, Rahman, who made him fight for a while.
Im sure Emanuel is thinking the same thing. Hes perfected his ring generalship, but what happens when a fighter can take the fire and get inside? We still saw some vulnerability in the Peter fight, and its going to happen again. An all time great has to master all facets of his game.

Here's a repost.... (worse in what way?...because americans aren't dominating?)...

Here's the thing...Boxing's history could've been dramatically changed during the Henry Cooper vs Ali fight...
Cooper owned Ali in that fight...
but fortunately for him , His corner was a fast thinker...and saved his ass by gaining some time and gave Ali the time to recuperate...

If Henry Cooper was able to pull that shit...

just imagine what most of these eastern euros would've done..especially big and skilled ones too...

there was no russian invasion back then.. If you're not being biased about it.
You can't even call some of boxing's legends "best of the world" since 99% of their competition came from the united states...

Hell even Lennox's record is slightly more international...(even though he only had to fight 2 or 3 eastern euros in his entire pro career)..

It's all relative really..

[Mundo]

uh... if it was garbage... peter would have knocked him out. sanders would have knocked him OUT... brewster would have knocked him OUT.

instead... wlad got up and beat peter, ref stopped the sanders fight, and wlad was too tired to continue in the brewster fight.

no... its not garbage.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Of course, this fight proved that Wlad's chin is garbage.

[claudius brown]

Vitali would ko wlad & lewis would of killed wlad no doubt about it!!

so yea i agree he will NEVER be ranked above lennox

[achillesthegreat]

This thread is garbage.

[thewoo]

Wlad will never get ranked aboce Lewis because there is no big names out there for him to beat. There is no one against whom he can prove that he is truly great. Even if he is completly dominant from here on out and takes bombs that prove that his chin is great, people will say that he just dominated a weak division

[boxingcar]

This thread is garbage.
maybe so , but you're a part of it.
I'll never change my view on this issue. Wlad's chin is too fragile. that's a huge weakness.

[boxingcar]

Wlad will never get ranked aboce Lewis because there is no big names out there for him to beat. There is no one against whom he can prove that he is truly great. Even if he is completly dominant from here on out and takes bombs that prove that his chin is great, people will say that he just dominated a weak division

(read above...my repost)..

btw , if someone's gonna beat him , Povetkin is the man for the job.

[lefthook31]

Here's a repost.... (worse in what way?...because americans aren't dominating?)...

Here's the thing...Boxing's history could've been dramatically changed during the Henry Cooper vs Ali fight...
Cooper owned Ali in that fight...
but fortunately for him , His corner was a fast thinker...and saved his ass by gaining some time and gave Ali the time to recuperate...

If Henry Cooper was able to pull that shit...

just imagine what most of these eastern euros would've done..especially big and skilled ones too...

there was no russian invasion back then.. If you're not being biased about it.
You can't even call some of boxing's legends "best of the world" since 99% of their competition came from the united states...

Hell even Lennox's record is slightly more international...(even though he only had to fight 2 or 3 eastern euros in his entire pro career)..

It's all relative really..

No worse in the way that the level of competition and skill is bad. Proof to this is the fact that there is no dominating fighters or fighters that can hold onto the title for more than two or three fights besides Wlad right now and he needs better competition to cement his legacy.
It started getting bad with lewis, but comparing his competition to this current crop, its worse. The good news is Wlad is young and hopefully someone will come along.
Its not relative, because the level of boxing skill, heart, and natural talent has fallen off so dramatically. Its like matching Floyd mayweather with Oscar De La Hoya, two guys who are or have been dominating fighters, and matching them against each other. We dont have that in the heavyweight division.
Wladmir has improved dramatically, but he still shows he has some serious flaws when a guy can take his shots and get inside and make him fight. Weve seen him ko'd three times, and almost KO'd by Peter, so he is far from being an all time great.

[achillesthegreat]

maybe so , but you're a part of it.
I'll never change my view on this issue. Wlad's chin is too fragile. that's a huge weakness.
I could be part of a Nazi cult but it doesn't mean it's good.

Wlads chin is so fragile that he can compile the record he has.

Fact is his talent and tools overcome it. Plus his chin isn't that fragile, he has been caught loads. Williams and Peter dropped him but he still basically dominated. Not everyone is a puncher i.e. world champ Chris Byrd.

[Shamrock]

Vitali would ko wlad & lewis would of killed wlad no doubt about it!!

so yea i agree he will NEVER be ranked above lennox

Vitali only needed one more round for lennox, or at least one more fight without the cut. Stewart has taught Wlad to be as cautious as Lennox was, and Lennox's chin was more suspect......at least Wlad gets up after a clean shot! My sentiments are with Wlad KOing Lennox in 7 good rounds with a better jab and stronger right hand. I think Steward would agree with that!

[boxingcar]

No worse in the way that the level of competition and skill is bad. Proof to this is the fact that there is no dominating fighters or fighters that can hold onto the title for more than two or three fights besides Wlad right now and he needs better competition to cement his legacy.
It started getting bad with lewis, but comparing his competition to this current crop, its worse. The good news is Wlad is young and hopefully someone will come along.
Its not relative, because the level of boxing skill, heart, and natural talent has fallen off so dramatically. Its like matching Floyd mayweather with Oscar De La Hoya, two guys who are or have been dominating fighters, and matching them against each other. We dont have that in the heavyweight division.
Wladmir has improved dramatically, but he still shows he has some serious flaws when a guy can take his shots and get inside and make him fight. Weve seen him ko'd three times, and almost KO'd by Peter, so he is far from being an all time great.

Let's just talk about the Heavyweight division. forget De La Hoya or mayweather. And just answer me this...
I'm serious here...

I truely believe that it's still "all relative".
Tyson's era was poor as fuck too but no one was ever bitching about it.

Why is that?
Really , let's talk about tyson's so called "prime" for example.
Sure He used to look good at beating nobodies , no one's denying it but when you actually take some time to look at some facts...

a prime Tyson never had to fight anyone as big & skilled as a Lennox Lewis or a vitali Klitschko. Not only that 95 or 99% of Tyson's competition came from the united states.

Not only that...some of his opponents...Well..
Let boxrec do the talking
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
(and many more)...

We can argue and say that Tyson was super dominant because all his opponents were monumental cans too...

And AGAIN...Imagine this...Henry Cooper.
(that guy would be a nobody by today's standards)
Almost had "the" Muhammad Ali...Ali should've lost that one but Ali's corner purposefuly wasted minutes and gave his fighter time to recuperate...

Just a imagine for a moment...If Henry cooper could pull this...
Imagine the 70's with a russian invasion (but there was no such thing back then).

We can argue and say that other eras had veyr uneven competition too..On one side , you had top fighters , on the other...just cans..

which is why , you had extremely dominant fighters..

Is there really that much of a difference?
Only difference is see today is that fighters in the HW division are physically bigger (most of them) , most of the dominant ones used to be totally absent from the boxing scene (eastern euros).

Was Foreman's era any better?...for example during his come back?
The guy beat Gerry Cooney....who the fuck is Cooney by today''s standards? another "white hope"? not even that...prime for prime...that guy would get raped even by the new comer (povetkin).


which era is really better?...hard to tell cause today's HW division is finally.."international".

[barneyrub]

uh... if it was garbage... peter would have knocked him out. sanders would have knocked him OUT... brewster would have knocked him OUT.

instead... wlad got up and beat peter, ref stopped the sanders fight, and wlad was too tired to continue in the brewster fight.

no... its not garbage.Peter never landed a clean shot and if thref hadnt let wlad hold constantly when he was in panic mode constantly then peter may have landed something clean.

[barneyrub]

Vitali only needed one more round for lennox, or at least one more fight without the cut. Stewart has taught Wlad to be as cautious as Lennox was, and Lennox's chin was more suspect......at least Wlad gets up after a clean shot! My sentiments are with Wlad KOing Lennox in 7 good rounds with a better jab and stronger right hand. I think Steward would agree with that!nonsense. He was knocked out by the first sanders knockdown actually, the ref gave him a count that lasted 14 seconds then he fell down again without another significant punch landing at all for another count! How many clean shots has wlad ever taken? let alone take and not go down?

Lets see a compilation like this showing wlad take a clean shot and not go down.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Fighting Weight]

When Lewis was active neither WALDO or Brewster would even have been considered for a shot at him, this comparison is nonsense and it's been done to death on here numerous times already.

[boxingcar]

When Lewis was active neither WALDO or Brewster would even have been considered for a shot at him, this comparison is nonsense and it's been done to death on here numerous times already.

cause they are unworthy? but the likes of Hasim Rahman (who btw once managed to KO Lennox) , Botha , Mavrovic , Briggs , Grant etc...all were...Yeah , they all were so infinitly superior..Poor Tua couldn't even do shit with a reach of 70...but yeah....you're right brewster & wlad can't be compared...

[Fighting Weight]

cause they are unworthy? but the likes of Hasim Rahman (who btw once managed to KO Lennox) , Botha , Mavrovic , Briggs , Grant etc...all were...Yeah , they all were so infinitly superior..Poor Tua couldn't even do shit with a reach of 70...but yeah....you're right brewster & wlad can't be compared...

I see you speak without the aid of knowledge, like most WALDO fans. WALDO was considered as an opponent but got starched by Sanders. Brewster on the other hand....well what did he ever do to even get noticed when Lennox was around??

To diss Mavrovic, Briggs, Grant and Tua (at least the versions that Lewis faced) shows massive ignorance. None of these fighters were coming in off losses and surgery as far as I remember. Tua hit Lewis with several hard left hooks in their fight despite it being a total ownage by Lewis. Had it been WALDO in the other corner I suspect those left hooks would have had an effect :yep

Botha I agree was a token defence, Lennox's last fight in front of a home crowd.

[C.J.Rock]

well..Wlad has the technic. The athletisim. the speed (especially for a guy of his size). The power too...

Unfortunately , (and yes , i know it's a cliched thing to say)
but this guy's chin is garbage.

If Wlad had Tua's chin...I'd probably already rank him in the top 5 atg.
A guy of his size...and technic...there never was such a thing during Ali's era either...

Unfortunately , his chin is even more fragile than Lennox's...

Wlad vs Vitali....I'd still go for Vitali to win because even though He's not as polished as wlad is...At least He's more endurant and has a super solid chin..

Lennox did not have a fragile chin. He took solid on the button shots from Tua, Mercer,Briggs $ even Vitaly's best and never budged.

[C.J.Rock]

Here's a repost.... (worse in what way?...because americans aren't dominating?)...

Here's the thing...Boxing's history could've been dramatically changed during the Henry Cooper vs Ali fight...
Cooper owned Ali in that fight...
but fortunately for him , His corner was a fast thinker...and saved his ass by gaining some time and gave Ali the time to recuperate...

If Henry Cooper was able to pull that shit...

just imagine what most of these eastern euros would've done..especially big and skilled ones too...

there was no russian invasion back then.. If you're not being biased about it.
You can't even call some of boxing's legends "best of the world" since 99% of their competition came from the united states...

Hell even Lennox's record is slightly more international...(even though he only had to fight 2 or 3 eastern euros in his entire pro career)..

It's all relative really..

I was at the Cooper-Ali fight To say Cooper owned Ali is preposterous
I was pro Cooper in that fight but Ali was dominating and started showboating Henry caught him with the perfect left hook and put him down in the final seconds of the round. Angelo 's quick thinking and Ali's ability to take a punch enabled him to survive. I went to that fight hoping to see the Louisville Lip silenced and left it a life long Ali fan
Theres not a HW fighting today that would have a prayer against Ali
Lennox is the best since Ali thats for sure:bbb :bbb :bbb :bbb

[boxingcar]

I was at the Cooper-Ali fight To say Cooper owned Ali is preposterous
I was pro Cooper in that fight but Ali was dominating and started showboating Henry caught him with the perfect left hook and put him down in the final seconds of the round. Angelo 's quick thinking and Ali's ability to take a punch enabled him to survive. I went to that fight hoping to see the Louisville Lip silenced and left it a life long Ali fan
Theres not a HW fighting today that would have a prayer against Ali
Lennox is the best since Ali thats for sure:bbb :bbb :bbb :bbb

Yes Ali was dominating but since you've seen the fight.
You know as well as I do that this fight should've been a huge upset.

It never happened because Ali's corner did the right thing at the right time...Without his bullshit excuses...And with an instant restart...Ali would've been either Koed or Tkoed.

My point still stands...We all know that Muhammad Ali , is the #1 HW of all time.

But my point is , if Cooper could do it. (no offense)
Just imagine what a huge , skilled fighter would've done...
I repeat , there was no such thing as a Lennox Lewis back in Ali's era.

And like I said before , most of his competition was mainly against US fighters too. the competition wasn't as international as it is today.

Better yet , the term "white hope" became a norm in the english language because the only white boxers america used to have were monumental cans for the afro american athlete.

Best white american HW fighter they used to have back then (in Ali's era) was Jerry Quarry. And that's not saying much...Even though Quarry had a lot of heart and was always ready for a war...

[oblate]

well..Wlad has the technic. The athletisim. the speed (especially for a guy of his size). The power too...

Unfortunately , (and yes , i know it's a cliched thing to say)
but this guy's chin is garbage.

If Wlad had Tua's chin...I'd probably already rank him in the top 5 atg.
A guy of his size...and technic...there never was such a thing during Ali's era either...

Unfortunately , his chin is even more fragile than Lennox's...

Wlad vs Vitali....I'd still go for Vitali to win because even though He's not as polished as wlad is...At least He's more endurant and has a super solid chin..
thats a silly thing to say though. yea he has a weak chin but he's learned to deal with it. No heavyweight has everything. Are you saying if he does amazing things in the heavyweight division you still won't rank him highly atg because he's got a weak chin?

[brooklyn1550]

Lennox Lewis will go down as the greater fighter in my opinion even after Wladimir's career is done. I think he was the better fighter as well.

[brooklyn1550]

Up and comers like Povetkin and Solis are enough to have given anyone in any era trouble

:patsch What has Solis done to show he would have given everybody in any era trouble?

[hobgoblin]

I can understand why you'll never rank Wlad over Vitali. I can't understand why you won't have Wlad over Lennox Lewis. After this fight, I have him at #10 right behind Holyfield at #9, and Vitali at #8 and just ahead of Lennox Lewis who trails behind at #11. The Sanders fight showed that Wlad could do something Lewis never did - get up from from a punch only to get KO'd shortly but at least he got up.

[Mind Reader]

I can understand why you'll never rank Wlad over Vitali. I can't understand why you won't have Wlad over Lennox Lewis. After this fight, I have him at #10 right behind Holyfield at #9, and Vitali at #8 and just ahead of Lennox Lewis who trails behind at #11. The Sanders fight showed that Wlad could do something Lewis never did - get up from from a punch only to get KO'd shortly but at least he got up.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dude, Lennox knocked Vitali out how is he 3 spots ahead??? Vitali and Wlad's resume is not near Lennox's.

[Stimulant]

Let's just talk about the Heavyweight division. forget De La Hoya or mayweather. And just answer me this...
I'm serious here...

I truely believe that it's still "all relative".
Tyson's era was poor as fuck too but no one was ever bitching about it.

Why is that?
Really , let's talk about tyson's so called "prime" for example.
Sure He used to look good at beating nobodies , no one's denying it but when you actually take some time to look at some facts...

a prime Tyson never had to fight anyone as big & skilled as a Lennox Lewis or a vitali Klitschko. Not only that 95 or 99% of Tyson's competition came from the united states.

Not only that...some of his opponents...Well..
Let boxrec do the talking
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
(and many more)...

We can argue and say that Tyson was super dominant because all his opponents were monumental cans too...

And AGAIN...Imagine this...Henry Cooper.
(that guy would be a nobody by today's standards)
Almost had "the" Muhammad Ali...Ali should've lost that one but Ali's corner purposefuly wasted minutes and gave his fighter time to recuperate...

Just a imagine for a moment...If Henry cooper could pull this...
Imagine the 70's with a russian invasion (but there was no such thing back then).

We can argue and say that other eras had veyr uneven competition too..On one side , you had top fighters , on the other...just cans..

which is why , you had extremely dominant fighters..

Is there really that much of a difference?
Only difference is see today is that fighters in the HW division are physically bigger (most of them) , most of the dominant ones used to be totally absent from the boxing scene (eastern euros).

Was Foreman's era any better?...for example during his come back?
The guy beat Gerry Cooney....who the fuck is Cooney by today''s standards? another "white hope"? not even that...prime for prime...that guy would get raped even by the new comer (povetkin).


which era is really better?...hard to tell cause today's HW division is finally.."international".

Great post. Smart man.

[Sakura]

Wlad will never get ranked aboce Lewis because there is no big names out there for him to beat. There is no one against whom he can prove that he is truly great. Even if he is completly dominant from here on out and takes bombs that prove that his chin is great, people will say that he just dominated a weak division

Neither was Lewis...only washed up fighters and Lewis has only 44 fights in his career..wlad has already now much more