Punching Strength BOXERS VS MMA

[saul_ir34]

I dont know how many of you watched that Figth Science show last night. In the show they measured the strenght of the blows the MMA fighters were throwing at this dummy.
Bas Ruten could exert 900 lbs of pressure on this dummy. After those results they said that thats as hard as a heavyweight boxer punches at.
I asked some people on here last night and someone showed me a link that said Hatton punches at 882. Hatton is no heavy weight or considered to be a one punch knockout type of guy.

Does anyone else know what actually a heavyweight boxer punches at??
That show seemed kind of biased and i refuse to believe those chumps can punch harder than a heavyweight fighter.
Imagine Klitschkos right hand...

[radianttwilight]

Uhh...you do know that Bas Rutten is a 42 year old man who has fought once since 1999, right?

It wouldn't suprise me if a heavyweight boxer punches harder than a heavyweight mixed martial artist - all other things being equal, the boxer trains to punch, and punch only. Boxers are alot more stationary than MMA fighters, too, because they don't have to worry about being kicked and taken down.

I will tell you, though, that a good high kick from a 200+lb kickboxer is harder than any punch thrown by a heavyweight boxer in history.

[saul_ir34]

Uhh...you do know that Bas Rutten is a 42 year old man who has fought once since 1999, right?

It wouldn't suprise me if a heavyweight boxer punches harder than a heavyweight mixed martial artist - all other things being equal, the boxer trains to punch, and punch only. Boxers are alot more stationary than MMA fighters, too, because they don't have to worry about being kicked and taken down.

I will tell you, though, that a good high kick from a 200+lb kickboxer is harder than any punch thrown by a heavyweight boxer in history.

The kicks did look like they would fucken break your ribs but the way they punched just didnt convince me that they can strike harder than a heavyweight boxer.
Actually i think Kermit Cintron could outpunch these guys.

[Larson]

Can you show me that Ricky Hatton link?

[dangerousity]

Depends on which device their using. Marciano was suppose to punch at 1000 psi. Also you can only improve power so much, if a guy is a born puncher and has trained some boxing (no doubt Bas has) then he may have reached the pinnacle of his punching power. If he was a born puncher then it would be no surprise he hits as hard as a HW boxer. The boxer will obviously have the advantage in other aspects such as accuracy, combinations etc.

[saul_ir34]

Can you show me that Ricky Hatton link?

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There you go

[Imperial1]

Ivan Drago is proof that no other athlete can ht harder than a boxer because "Anything he hits he destroys "!

:bbb

[jecxbox]

i saw a show where an old boxing trainer hit a dummy and he recorded with 950+ lbs and he was probably more washed up than bas rutten.

2ndly boxing isn't about hitting hard, its about skills. And Wladamir Klitcko would probably do like 1400 on a loaded up right cross I wouldn't doubt it at all.

[Larson]

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There you go


404 NOT FOUND

[saul_ir34]

i saw a show where an old boxing trainer hit a dummy and he recorded with 950+ lbs and he was probably more washed up than bas rutten.

2ndly boxing isn't about hitting hard, its about skills. And Wladamir Klitcko would probably do like 1400 on a loaded up right cross I wouldn't doubt it at all.

I would love to see that get measured. I mean his left jab alone can hurt fighters so that right hand has to be packing some heat

[Wilhelm]

I wouldn't doubt that those guys could have similar numbers hitting some stupid stationary target, but a good boxer would be able to do it more quickly and accurately with better defense and snap and would be able to do it without tipping off that they were going to punch. There are guys who can hit bags hard without too much training, but the stuff they learn when they box for years is the finer details that you can't measure with some dumb PSI test.

[p.falk]

Uhh...you do know that Bas Rutten is a 42 year old man who has fought once since 1999, right?

It wouldn't suprise me if a heavyweight boxer punches harder than a heavyweight mixed martial artist - all other things being equal, the boxer trains to punch, and punch only. Boxers are alot more stationary than MMA fighters, too, because they don't have to worry about being kicked and taken down.

I will tell you, though, that a good high kick from a 200+lb kickboxer is harder than any punch thrown by a heavyweight boxer in history.

Uhhhh.... you know they were pandering to mma fans with that, right?
They are not trained to punch, and punch only. They are trained to move, they are trained to block, to slip... so no, they are not trained to punch only.
Also, it's just as likely that boxing is more difficult because of it's limited arsenal (pssst.... IT'S LIMITED BY DEFINITION OF THE SPORT!). There's not as much wiggle room to hide your inability to compete on the boxing stage. So your concern of "they don't have to worry about..... blah blah blah" is irrelevant.

I will tell you, quit sucking kickboxer dwyck to prove a point. It's not an issue of punch vs. kick. It's punch vs. punch. You sound like one of those prats that handles losing at a particular sport (let's say tennis) by replying with... "yeah... well.... did you know that baseball players swing an object that is more dense than a tennis racket?!".

[Casa]

From some random thing I remember reading a long time ago, I think Foreman had the highest PSI on his punch, which was like 1600. I think Tyson was around 1400.

[saul_ir34]

From some random thing I remember reading a long time ago, I think Foreman had the highest PSI on his punch, which was like 1600. I think Tyson was around 1400.

Are you serious about Foreman???
Tahts fucken crazy!! wouldnt that kill a man??

[saul_ir34]

404 NOT FOUND

Its not working for me either now but it says that The university of Manchester measured it and he came out at 882

[jecxbox]

thats incredible for a 5'6 guy.

[saul_ir34]

Yea is he even considered the hardest 140lb puncher???
I always thought Ricardo Torres looks like the could hit pretty damn hard.

[SugarRay]

If its is just punching power you are talking about then boxers definately punch the hardest because forces generated by the momentum of the body (coming forward), the twisting of the waist and fist upon impact and planting the feet firmly on the ground makes the technique very effective. In physics term Force = Mass X Acceleration and Power = Force/ Time. Kicks, when done correctly (running side-kick and perhaps spinning kick) could quite easily achieve this kind of power. I wonder if anyone has ever measured how hard a soccer player kicks???

[saul_ir34]

There is one guy Roberto Carlos. That guy is about 5'5" he is a soccer player and his legs are probably the size of a teens waist. He can kick some fucken cannons. He is from Brazil and they did a study on him and it was just amazing how hard that guy can kick.

[Shane_Erich]

I watched that last night, they said it was comparible or something liek that to a heavyweight boxer and they didnt say who it was? i remeber Chris Byrd was on about a month ago so maybe they compared it to him? Also teh MMA guy was only using a 4 oz glove.

[TFFP]

:lol:

If some MMA cretin could punch a bag harder than Wlad I would not only admit that the heavyweight division is a steamling pile of horse turd but I would stop watching boxing

[trac209]

i heard once that squatdog ko'ed a horse with a powershot

[freddy-wak]

bullshit...i just cracked a 925 at my local bar...and i was drunk...in vegas, i got up to 1000

[radianttwilight]

Uhhhh.... you know they were pandering to mma fans with that, right?
They are not trained to punch, and punch only. They are trained to move, they are trained to block, to slip... so no, they are not trained to punch only.
Also, it's just as likely that boxing is more difficult because of it's limited arsenal (pssst.... IT'S LIMITED BY DEFINITION OF THE SPORT!). There's not as much wiggle room to hide your inability to compete on the boxing stage. So your concern of "they don't have to worry about..... blah blah blah" is irrelevant.

I will tell you, quit sucking kickboxer dwyck to prove a point. It's not an issue of punch vs. kick. It's punch vs. punch. You sound like one of those prats that handles losing at a particular sport (let's say tennis) by replying with... "yeah... well.... did you know that baseball players swing an object that is more dense than a tennis racket?!".

Don't be a dick, you know exactly what I was talking about. If you're a boxer, then your sport is BOXING - you train to move, punch, and not get punched. If you're a KICKBOXER - you train to move, punch, not get punched, kick, and not get kicked. I'm sure you're aware of the fact that kicking reach is quite a bit bigger than punching reach, so I would hope you could take the next step in comprehending that a kickboxer might be worried about things like...kicks?

It's hard to plant your feet and throw a real hard textbook left hook when you have to get in kicking range to do so. That's why MMA guys jump in and out when they punch - if they stay at "punching range" they eat kicks and it's lights-out.

As far as your tennis "analogy" - that's a fallacy. A proper comparison would be a hurdler to a decathlete. The hurdler says "well, your 110M hurdle time sucks in comparison to mine". The decathlete responds by saying "well, you can't throw a shotput for jack shit, you can't pole vault, you can't run the 1500M any faster than my grandma" and so on.

Obviously an athlete that specializes in a more one-dimensional sport like boxing is going to be superior in that one dimension. MMA guys are trained to duck, slip, dodge punches and kicks in similar fashion to boxers, but they also have the entire clinch + ground game to train for.

And as a parting note - it wouldn't suprise me at all if Klitschko punches harder than any mixed martial artist in history. Comparing him to Rutten is pointless though, comparing a top-notch heavyweight puncher like Klitschko to an ancient Bas Rutten (who was never a prolific puncher, even in his day) is like comparing Chuck Liddell from the height of his reign to 1983 Muhammad Ali.

[SugarRay]

There is one guy Roberto Carlos. That guy is about 5'5" he is a soccer player and his legs are probably the size of a teens waist. He can kick some fucken cannons. He is from Brazil and they did a study on him and it was just amazing how hard that guy can kick.

Yes, I have seen some of his kicks especially the curved ones. A lot of power is required to generate such projection

[mturner77]

I watched that last night, they said it was comparible or something liek that to a heavyweight boxer and they didnt say who it was? i remeber Chris Byrd was on about a month ago so maybe they compared it to him? Also teh MMA guy was only using a 4 oz glove.

The boxer they were using as the example was some over the hill slob who featured in the first episode of Fight Science thus making the whole thing a joke.

[barneyrub]

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"At first, experts from Biosense Medical thought that Ricky had landed a blow with an astonishing 1,500Kg of instantaneous force behind it.

But more detailed analysis carried out in the United States revealed the power of the punch had caused the sensor to malfunction, giving a false reading.

Undeterred by this setback, impact engineers from The University of Manchester used alternative data and examined previous studies, and concluded Ricky had landed a blow with 400Kg of instantaneous force behind it."

............................................... ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

That is measured in kg so someone will need to convert that to lbs to make a comparison to the fight science measurements.

[dangerousity]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

"At first, experts from Biosense Medical thought that Ricky had landed a blow with an astonishing 1,500Kg of instantaneous force behind it.

But more detailed analysis carried out in the United States revealed the power of the punch had caused the sensor to malfunction, giving a false reading.

Undeterred by this setback, impact engineers from The University of Manchester used alternative data and examined previous studies, and concluded Ricky had landed a blow with 400Kg of instantaneous force behind it."

............................................... ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

That is measured in kg so someone will need to convert that to lbs to make a comparison to the fight science measurements.

Thats 881lb. Considering Hatton is a WW and Bas I believe is a HW, not too bad.

[Polymath]

I don't have a source right, try and find it later, but I remember Foreman's power being up there, but beaten by, wait for it....Frank Bruno!

[Dostoevsky]

No wonder he broke 4 of Castillos ribs. You'd think he would get more head knockouts with that sort of power.

[Steve Fox]

You know those punchbags you get at fun fairs, I saw someone get 'superman' once.

[dangerousity]

You know those punchbags you get at fun fairs, I saw someone get 'superman' once.

lol. My bro always gets superman on those and he's a FW, he use to get them when he was 14 too weighing about 110lb.

[emanuel_augustus]

Virtually every MMA fighter I've ever seen has ZERO idea how to punch effectively. They arm punch and get no leverage on their shots. This includes even the so-called "champions."

It's why I don't like MMA.

You could take your average trained club fighter boxer and they punch harder than the top level MMA guys. Boxers are trained to punch through muscle memory and using technique to maximize impact.

MMA guys are trained to take you down and grapple, not punch.

Remember folks, just cuz you saw it on a TV show doesn't make it true.

[Steve Fox]

lol. My bro always gets superman on those and he's a FW, he use to get them when he was 14 too weighing about 110lb.Yeah, but I bet he's never knocked one of those nailed down coconuts off, or got three darts on a over-sized playing card that's attached to a concrete block.

[dangerousity]

Yeah, but I bet he's never knocked one of those nailed down coconuts off, or got three darts on a over-sized playing card that's attached to a concrete block.

But he has smashed a watermelon sat on a pole!

[dangerousity]

Virtually every MMA fighter I've ever seen has ZERO idea how to punch effectively. They arm punch and get no leverage on their shots. This includes even the so-called "champions."

It's why I don't like MMA.

You could take your average trained club fighter boxer and they punch harder than the top level MMA guys. Boxers are trained to punch through muscle memory and using technique to maximize impact.

MMA guys are trained to take you down and grapple, not punch.

Remember folks, just cuz you saw it on a TV show doesn't make it true.

They look like their arm punching because they cannot commit to a shot for fear of kicks or being grappled. Simply put, they dont punch likes boxers in an MMA ring because they choose not to, not because they cant. Guys like crocop are K1(kickboxing) champion, im pretty sure they have the mechanics of a punch down. This is the same guy who broke bob sapp's face.

[liljuve13]

A good Boxer will beat down any MMA fighter in the boxing ring.
And an MMA fighter will beat down a boxer in a street fight:vonnecunt

[barneyrub]

In fact Bas Ruttens left hook was measured at 1291 lbs

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[Southy]

i remember watching a programme here in the uk about chris eubank and his life how he got in to boxing etc.. and he said he had his punch power measured and he said he punched at the equivalent of just under 2 tonnes of force dont know how true or how they measured it but unreal.

[demzor]

Bas rules

[TFFP]

Enzo's hits measured 3.5 tonnes, apparently:

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Imagine Wlad :shock::scaredas:

[kirk]

I am pissed that they feel the need to correlate it to boxing... as to try to upstage us or whatever... but the thing is this


Boxers train to punch their entire lives... thats what they do, punch and get punched... i dont see why mma fighters not punching as hard as a boxer should get much attention... i mean... thats what boxers do, thats what their whole arm is trained and built for.

[BITCH ASS]

Uhh...you do know that Bas Rutten is a 42 year old man who has fought once since 1999, right?

It wouldn't suprise me if a heavyweight boxer punches harder than a heavyweight mixed martial artist - all other things being equal, the boxer trains to punch, and punch only. Boxers are alot more stationary than MMA fighters, too, because they don't have to worry about being kicked and taken down.

I will tell you, though, that a good high kick from a 200+lb kickboxer is harder than any punch thrown by a heavyweight boxer in history.

:patsch

WTF?

[kirk]

A good Boxer will beat down any MMA fighter in the boxing ring.
And an MMA fighter will beat down a boxer in a street fight:vonnecunt

LOL! riiiiiight... thats why Don Frye got his ass handed to him by some ex boxing pro and coach right?

you mma boys are so funny...

Chuck Liddel gets his ass knocked the fuck out trying to fight a boxer on the street....

it completely depends on what fighter is fighting what fighter... each fighter has differant strengths and weaknesses that will play to the others

you people all try to oversimplify it.

[scott is cool]

I consider Hatton a one punch KO type of fighter. Just look at the Castillo fight.
I'd say a Heaveyweight Boxer punches a lot harder than any MMA fighter, just look at Foreman, Tyson, Bruno, Liston and Lewis or Haye and Enzo, and those 2 are not even HW's. I'd love to see a MMA fighter try and handle one of those punches.

[saul_ir34]

I consider Hatton a one punch KO type of fighter. Just look at the Castillo fight.
I'd say a Heaveyweight Boxer punches a lot harder than any MMA fighter, just look at Foreman, Tyson, Bruno, Liston and Lewis or Haye and Enzo, and those 2 are not even HW's. I'd love to see a MMA fighter try and handle one of those punches.

They would be severely hurt. Look at how knocked out they get with punches that look like they wouldnt even stun a boxer.

[BigBone]

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There you go

Just replace m...er to manchester...

[kirk]

They would be severely hurt. Look at how knocked out they get with punches that look like they wouldnt even stun a boxer. The reason for that is, because fighters who would get knocked out by those punches would have never made it to prominence in any form (even by esb china chinned standards) while in mma having punch resistance isnt as necissary, as there are various forms of getting to the top of the sport besides taking punches...

hence you see mma champs and contenders with horrendus punch resistance compared to boxing champs and contenders....

i dont hold that against mma guys eather... because mma is not boxing. but when mma fanboys start talking about how mma guys would beat up boxers it becomes a very important point... of course, these idiots think that these mma martial artists would not even get hit against boxers.. they would just double leg take down, mount, and choke them out..

although... if we go by reality and what we have to work with, the only documented fight between a known mma fighter and a boxer (who i dont know) and the boxer delt with him... because with mma fighters, its still most of theirs natural inclination to punch first (as it is with most MEN.. not to grab, choke, and pull hair like females) and when they engage in this activity with boxers they will find themselves like frye did.

[Ethan Trims]

I don't have a source right, try and find it later, but I remember Foreman's power being up there, but beaten by, wait for it....Frank Bruno!

Yeah right:lol: , Im sure that psi scale was accurate.

[Ethan Trims]

The reason for that is, because fighters who would get knocked out by those punches would have never made it to prominence in any form (even by esb china chinned standards) while in mma having punch resistance isnt as necissary, as there are various forms of getting to the top of the sport besides taking punches...

hence you see mma champs and contenders with horrendus punch resistance compared to boxing champs and contenders....

i dont hold that against mma guys eather... because mma is not boxing. but when mma fanboys start talking about how mma guys would beat up boxers it becomes a very important point... of course, these idiots think that these mma martial artists would not even get hit against boxers.. they would just double leg take down, mount, and choke them out..

although... if we go by reality and what we have to work with, the only documented fight between a known mma fighter and a boxer (who i dont know) and the boxer delt with him... because with mma fighters, its still most of theirs natural inclination to punch first (as it is with most MEN.. not to grab, choke, and pull hair like females) and when they engage in this activity with boxers they will find themselves like frye did.

Ummmm, mma fighter get knocked out easier because of the 4 ounce gloves they wear.

God some of you guys are fucking stupid.

[kirk]

Ummmm, mma fighter get knocked out easier because of the 4 ounce gloves they wear.

God some of you guys are fucking stupid.

LOL!!!

thats seriously why you think chuck liddel was ko'd by that looping arm punch against jackson?

Boxers are punching eachother so hard they are breaking their hands through their wraps and gloves... and getting their eye sockets, jaws, and eardrums broken... and dont get knocked out... and mma guys are getting knocked out because the gloves are smaller..

your the one that is fucking stupid...

you realise that boxing back in the day was with small ass gloves, and bare knuckle.. you think the champions back then were getting knocked out left and right because it was bare knuckle or small small gloves? lol.. some of their fights went 30 rounds or more...

you fucking moron

[scott is cool]

They would be severely hurt. Look at how knocked out they get with punches that look like they wouldnt even stun a boxer.

I think I could withstand a MMA punch. :!:

[DobyZhee]

I can't believe you would put the Castillo fight as a barometer for Hatton's punching power.

Sure it was a clean body shot as was seen but Castillo was weight drained and was out of it from the beginning.

[Ethan Trims]

LOL!!!

thats seriously why you think chuck liddel was ko'd by that looping arm punch against jackson?

Boxers are punching eachother so hard they are breaking their hands through their wraps and gloves... and getting their eye sockets, jaws, and eardrums broken... and dont get knocked out... and mma guys are getting knocked out because the gloves are smaller..

your the one that is fucking stupid...

you realise that boxing back in the day was with small ass gloves, and bare knuckle.. you think the champions back then were getting knocked out left and right because it was bare knuckle or small small gloves? lol.. some of their fights went 30 rounds or more...

you fucking moron

I tell you what little boy, go get a standard boxing glove and hit yourself in the face a couple times, and then go and get an mma glove and do the same.

See if you can tell the difference. If you honestly think the gloves have nothing to do with it, then youre a complete moron, Ohh wait:lol: .

[kirk]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

this is a sparring glove from 1890... and these guys fought way longer then we do today...

it has completely to do of what is required to succeed... not the size of the glove moron.

[kirk]

I tell you what little boy, go get a standard boxing glove and hit yourself in the face a couple times, and then go and get an mma glove and do the same.

See if you can tell the difference. If you honestly think the gloves have nothing to do with it, then youre a complete moron, Ohh wait:lol: . i have trained and fought with mma gloves.. ive been in mma on and off for 6 years.. more off then on... and boxing for 5 years....

you on the other hand obviously havnt, and dont know wtf you are talking about.

OF COURSE gloves have SOMETHING to do with it... please point out where i said they have NOTHING to do with it. dont worry... ill wait.

doesnt have as much to do as with the fact that mma fighters dont rise to the top by having the ability to take punches.. like boxers do, though. god your a waste...

[Ethan Trims]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

this is a sparring glove from 1890... and these guys fought way longer then we do today...

it has completely to do of what is required to succeed... not the size of the glove moron.

Yeah Ive seen some of those old fighters, almost feel asleep watching it, nothing like nowadays.

No wonder they didnt get knocked out, they barely threw any punches. Just them stalking each other for a couple rounds.

[kirk]

Yeah Ive seen some of those old fighters, almost feel asleep watching it, nothing like nowadays.

No wonder they didnt get knocked out, they barely threw any punches. Just them stalking each other for a couple rounds.

done talking to ya man... your a complete moron

:good

[Ethan Trims]

i have trained and fought with mma gloves.. ive been in mma on and off for 6 years.. more off then on... and boxing for 5 years....

you on the other hand obviously havnt, and dont know wtf you are talking about.



Ive studied and trained Muay thai for years, since we are bragging.

And you dont need to be a black belt or a pro boxer to tell that little MMA gloves hurt you worse when getting hit with them, but you might need to be a little intelligent to understand this.

[Dostoevsky]

Delete.

[Ethan Trims]

done talking to ya man... Im a complete moron who cant think of anything else
:good

:hi:

[kirk]

Well, thats not a very good example, considering the fact that it was essentialy a brawl between two old men that lasted 15 seconds, 1 man being Don Frye, who is in his mid 40's, fat and was ridiculously drunk. Here are a few better documented cases:

The first major encounter between a boxer and a wrestler in modern times took place in 1887 when John L. Sullivan, then heavyweight world boxing champion, entered the ring with his trainer, Greco-Roman wrestling champion William Muldoon, and was slammed to the mat in two minutes. The next publicized encounter occurred in the late 1890s when future heavyweight boxing champion Bob Fitzsimmons took on European Greco-Roman wrestling champion Ernest Roeber. Reportedly, Roeber suffered a fractured cheekbone in this bout, but was able to get Fitzsimmons down on the mat, where he applied an armlock and made the boxer sumbit. In 1936, heavyweight boxing contender Kingfish Levinsky and veteran professional wrestler Ray Steele competed in a mixed match, which Steele won in 35 seconds.

There are a few other examples from the modern era such as Art Jimmerson getting tapped my Royce Gracie in a matter of minutes and Melvin Manhoef obliterating former boxing cruiserweight title holder Yosuke Nishijima.



hmm... very interesting... i will look those up.. thank you :thumbsup

[Addie]

I've been watching UFC for about 3 years and boxing for less, but as soon as I saw Barrera vs Morales 3 I was a boxing fan for life. What's this got to do with anything? Well, I've seen a bit of both sports and like my opinion matters, but MMA fighters lack striking technique, and often look like fools throwing their hands.

I still think our worst guy beats the MMA's best guy at boxing.

[Ubersteve]

As mentioned before, it's balance, you can't really afford to plant too much in MMA. If you plant, you generally get leg kicked, if you're planting, that's going to do damage and slow you down, so you try and jump in and out and get shots off quickly to avoid that.

And of course boxers can punch harder, it's what they focus on. 100m sprinters can run faster than decathaletes, too.

[Dostoevsky]

hmm... very interesting... i will look those up.. thank you :thumbsup
Yeah, thanks. I'm just going to post it again as no one reads the last post on a page. :D


although... if we go by reality and what we have to work with, the only documented fight between a known mma fighter and a boxer (who i dont know) and the boxer delt with him... because with mma fighters, its still most of theirs natural inclination to punch first (as it is with most MEN.. not to grab, choke, and pull hair like females) and when they engage in this activity with boxers they will find themselves like frye did.

Well, thats not a very good example, considering the fact that it was essentialy a brawl in a hotel foyer in the small hours of the morning between two old men that lasted 15 seconds, 1 man being Don Frye, who is in his mid 40's, fat and was ridiculously drunk. Here are a few better documented cases:

The first major encounter between a boxer and a wrestler in modern times took place in 1887 when John L. Sullivan, then heavyweight world boxing champion, entered the ring with his trainer, Greco-Roman wrestling champion William Muldoon, and was slammed to the mat in two minutes. The next publicized encounter occurred in the late 1890s when future heavyweight boxing champion Bob Fitzsimmons took on European Greco-Roman wrestling champion Ernest Roeber. Reportedly, Roeber suffered a fractured cheekbone in this bout, but was able to get Fitzsimmons down on the mat, where he applied an armlock and made the boxer sumbit. In 1936, heavyweight boxing contender Kingfish Levinsky and veteran professional wrestler Ray Steele competed in a mixed match, which Steele won in 35 seconds.

There are a few other examples from the modern era such as Art Jimmerson getting tapped my Royce Gracie in a matter of minutes and Melvin Manhoef obliterating former boxing cruiserweight title holder Yosuke Nishijima.

[sambob]

I don't know anything about the TV show, and I'm not saying this is true of all Thai boxers and MMA guys, this is just based on my experience.

But Thai boxers and MMA guys can't punch for shit. They have no idea how to get the most power out of their bodies. No leverage on their punches at all.

But this doesn't even matter, because their boxing skills are shit anyway. And even if their boxing skills weren't shit, they don't throw straight punches anyway and my arms are long as shit so uh... yeah.

[brown_bomber]

LOL!!!

thats seriously why you think chuck liddel was ko'd by that looping arm punch against jackson?

Boxers are punching eachother so hard they are breaking their hands through their wraps and gloves... and getting their eye sockets, jaws, and eardrums broken... and dont get knocked out... and mma guys are getting knocked out because the gloves are smaller..

your the one that is fucking stupid...

you realise that boxing back in the day was with small ass gloves, and bare knuckle.. you think the champions back then were getting knocked out left and right because it was bare knuckle or small small gloves? lol.. some of their fights went 30 rounds or more...

you fucking moron


YEEEEEEEEE :bbb

[pit]

Uhh...you do know that Bas Rutten is a 42 year old man who has fought once since 1999, right?

It wouldn't suprise me if a heavyweight boxer punches harder than a heavyweight mixed martial artist - all other things being equal, the boxer trains to punch, and punch only. Boxers are alot more stationary than MMA fighters, too, because they don't have to worry about being kicked and taken down.

I will tell you, though, that a good high kick from a 200+lb kickboxer is harder than any punch thrown by a heavyweight boxer in history.

Very Untrue ,, boxer have better foot work then mma practitioner and now how to get the most leverage from the floor , then most other martial art practitioner, because thats what box do fight while moving .

Blows

It is true that boxer are only allowed to punch , but there is a much darker side of boxing that is not talked about . for instance head butt , boxer now how to use the head as a weapon while standing and trading shots . elbows: tyson was very good at missing the left hook in-order to deliver a elbow to the mouth , jaw and throat .
Shoulder : Rocky marciano was also very good at missing the upper cut in order to deliver a shoulder to his opponent chin.

Boxer have a lot of crippling blows they can deliver with other parts of there body don't because it not the nature of the sport , the blows are there , just not talked about.

[pit]

I tell you what little boy, go get a standard boxing glove and hit yourself in the face a couple times, and then go and get an mma glove and do the same.

See if you can tell the difference. If you honestly think the gloves have nothing to do with it, then youre a complete moron, Ohh wait:lol: .

you do realize that Pro boxer gloves are composed of compact horse hair Right?? there designed to transfer impact into the target not absorb it .

it would be no different if I wrapped a bat with Compacted horse hair and hit you in the head with it , the compact would be the same. only difference being you man not get cut, but I would still break your nose , eye socket and jaw or knock you out, out.

[kirk]

you do realize that Pro boxer gloves are composed of compact horse hair Right?? there designed to transfer impact into the target not absorb it .

it would be no different if I wrapped a bat with Compacted horse hair and hit you in the head with it , the compact would be the same, only difference you man not get cut but I would still break your nose , eye socket and jaw or knock you out, out. hes an idiot pit... lol.. there really is no use takling to him.

[Ethan Trims]

you do realize that Pro boxer gloves are composed of compact horse hair Right?? there designed to transfer impact into the target not absorb it .

it would be no different if I wrapped a bat with Compacted horse hair and hit you in the head with it , the compact would be the same, only difference you man not get cut but I would still break your nose , eye socket and jaw or knock you out, out.

Even still, those extra ounces on a boxing glove slow down the speed lessening the impact. MMA gloves are more dangerous.

hes an idiot pit... lol.. there really is no use takling to him.

are you a cheerleader now.

[pit]

Even still, those extra ounces on a boxing glove slow down the speed lessening the impact. MMA gloves are more dangerous.[QUOTE=Ethan Trims]

Not really no , boxer are trained to punch using body weight and coordination, not arm motion . The arm is merely the transporter of power from the floor through the body , through the arm into the target.

muscle mass or beach muscle play little to no role in punching power.





are you a cheerleader now.

[pit]

Even still, those extra ounces on a boxing glove slow down the speed lessening the impact. MMA gloves are more dangerous.

Not really no , boxer are trained to punch using body weight and coordination, not arm motion . The arm is merely the transporter of power from the floor through the body , through the arm into the target.

muscle mass or beach muscle play little to no role in punching power.

[SugarRay]

Think some of you guys are getting off the topic, which is related to punching strength and not about which is the most effective form of combat. For sure boxers punch harder because punching is their main focus as someone has previously mentioned and it is really effective if you are within punching range. I'm not sure if MMA is a sport or whether it encompass every other style of fighting on top of boxing. Boxers like Trinidad, Tszyu, etc... have been criticised for being too one dimensional but, isn't boxing even more one dimensional compared to a fighting style where there are no limits to what you can use? Imagine Tyson learning a few simple kicks, grappling, take-down techniques, etc... on top of his boxing. Wouldn't he be an even more effective fighter than someone who could only punch? I think some of your analogies are flawed in that you are comparing people to other people with different strengths, age, weight, talent, etc... because various factors (other than the style) could affect the outcome of a fight between a boxer and a MMA. However, if you were just comparing styles by taking a person and only train him in boxing with the same person and train him in boxing, grappling, kicking etc... then it's obvious to me which is the more well-rounded form of combat.

[196osh]

MMA fighters, well not to generlise lack punching technique.

Perhaps just because the way that you have to line up yo avoid kick's or MMA style punch's is different. But they do not punch as hard as boxers in the most part I would think due to the lack of technique.

[Ethan Trims]

Very Untrue ,, boxer have better foot work then mma practitioner and now how to get the most leverage from the floor , then most other martial art practitioner, because thats what box do fight while moving .


Well he would have a point if he was referencing kickboxing or muay thai because throwing kicks on your toes makes it the kick more powerful, less friction when turning it over and you have to be on your toes to block a kick. Of course you know that this is the exact opposite of what boxers do to gain power with their punches by punching flatfooted.

But his point is mute because in MMA you have to sprawl like a wrestler, and its better to be flatfooted with your weight on your front foot in wrestling. MMA is very complex.

[Ethan Trims]

Not really no , boxer are trained to punch using body weight and coordination, not arm motion . The arm is merely the transporter of power from the floor through the body , through the arm into the target.

muscle mass or beach muscle play little to no role in punching power.

but still that extra padding is dead weight, it slows down the momentum. 4 or 6 ounces might not seem like much but I notice it when Im shadowboxing with and without boxing gloves.

But whatever, we can agree to disagree.

[psychopath]

I dont know how many of you watched that Figth Science show last night. In the show they measured the strenght of the blows the MMA fighters were throwing at this dummy.
Bas Ruten could exert 900 lbs of pressure on this dummy. After those results they said that thats as hard as a heavyweight boxer punches at.
I asked some people on here last night and someone showed me a link that said Hatton punches at 882. Hatton is no heavy weight or considered to be a one punch knockout type of guy.

Does anyone else know what actually a heavyweight boxer punches at??
That show seemed kind of biased and i refuse to believe those chumps can punch harder than a heavyweight fighter.
Imagine Klitschkos right hand...

Fuck that Fight SCIENCE SHOW . . . why didn't they put a heavy weight boxer on test too so we can have a conclussion on who hits harder?

It's as simple as that.

[LiamE]

Hitting a punchbag is one thing.

Trying to land a power shot on someone that trains everyday to avoid em is an entirely different matter.

[pit]

but still that extra padding is dead weight, it slows down the momentum. 4 or 6 ounces might not seem like much but I notice it when Im shadowboxing with and without boxing gloves.

But whatever, we can agree to disagree.

the extra padding is like a roll of quarters and will add to the impact .. and you also have remember boxer spar and work out with 20 and 18 oz gloves so when the fight for real 12, 10 and 8 oz gloves are light and feel like nothing at all. so you can imagine a monster like Klitsco who weight 250 solid no fat and 6'7 feet tall pushing off the balls of his feet falling into his punch you with 12 oz Gloves on , I doubt if its really going to matter what he hits you with , just long as he doesn't kill you from sheer impact, because that what this boils down to "impact" brute trauma force , the 12 oz gloves allows him to hit you as hard as he humanly can with out breaking his hand on your skull.

but yes we agree to disagree ..

[Maxmomer]

Did I post on this thread or am I mistaken?

[dangerousity]

Very Untrue ,, boxer have better foot work then mma practitioner and now how to get the most leverage from the floor , then most other martial art practitioner, because thats what box do fight while moving .

Blows

It is true that boxer are only allowed to punch , but there is a much darker side of boxing that is not talked about . for instance head butt , boxer now how to use the head as a weapon while standing and trading shots . elbows: tyson was very good at missing the left hook in-order to deliver a elbow to the mouth , jaw and throat .
Shoulder : Rocky marciano was also very good at missing the upper cut in order to deliver a shoulder to his opponent chin.

Boxer have a lot of crippling blows they can deliver with other parts of there body don't because it not the nature of the sport , the blows are there , just not talked about.

Boxers have better footwork but they are more stationary. Look at Corrales-Castillo for example, you could not stand there if it was MMA otherwise you would loose your kneecaps or get taken down. Even guys like PBF who dance around the ring now and again sits on the spot to shoulder roll the punches off, works in boxing but wont work in mma where hes legs would get taken out and his opponent would bodyslam him. Toney does it too, pea & Tyson would often weave off punches but again, that wouldnt work in MMA. Its a different sport all together. Ive no doubt boxers are better trained at footwork but mma guys generally have to keep a much more concentrated look at the distance of their legs from their opponents than boxers.

[mturner77]

Fuck that Fight SCIENCE SHOW . . . why didn't they put a heavy weight boxer on test too so we can have a conclussion on who hits harder?

It's as simple as that.

They got the heavweight numbers based on an earlier episode as I mentioned previously in this thread. The guy however was an old BUM who had no business representing heavyweight boxers.

[flem1]

They got the heavweight numbers based on an earlier episode as I mentioned previously in this thread. The guy however was an old BUM who had no business representing heavyweight boxers.

And that dude from the 1st show wasn't even a heavyweight. He had 3 fights in the jr. middelweight division back in the the mid to late 80s.

[flem1]

His name is Stve Petramale btw..

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[saul_ir34]

Of course this show they get some of the best MMA guys to represent them.
The boxing one they have a no namer.
I would say if they brought Cintron, Pavlik, Miranda or Kessler they would outpunch those MMA guys. and im sure they weigh around 220-250.

[Tuavale]

Those tatted up skate boarders on steroids go into MMA because that is where their kind relate to them and they can have some success and notoriety. None of those people would succeed at boxing. One big striker from MMA, maybe Mighty Mo or someone else, was owned in a 6 round bout against a chunky journeyman with a losing record. You cannot even compare the hand skills of a boxer and MMA. To MMA's credit, there are some very good grappler's and submission artists that would be a nightmare for anyone to deal with. But if an MMA guy tried to stand-up with even a mediocre boxer, he would be looking at the lights.:rofl :rofl

[MrMagic]

Actually, I remember before the Tyson - Bruno II fight, they measured both fighters punching strength somehow... and Bruno hit surprisingly harder than Iron Mike

[barneyrub]

the extra padding is like a roll of quarters and will add to the impact .. and you also have remember boxer spar and work out with 20 and 18 oz gloves so when the fight for real 12, 10 and 8 oz gloves are light and feel like nothing at all. so you can imagine a monster like Klitsco who weight 250 solid no fat and 6'7 feet tall pushing off the balls of his feet falling into his punch you with 12 oz Gloves on , I doubt if its really going to matter what he hits you with , just long as he doesn't kill you from sheer impact, because that what this boils down to "impact" brute trauma force , the 12 oz gloves allows him to hit you as hard as he humanly can with out breaking his hand on your skull.

but yes we agree to disagree ..It would be 10 oz gloves Klitschko would be wearing in a professional fight.

[joe the great]

Ricky Hatton comes really close to hitting as hard and he weighs a lot loss than Bas Rutten. I think Ricky was 882.

[demzor]

Those tatted up skate boarders on steroids go into MMA because that is where their kind relate to them and they can have some success and notoriety. None of those people would succeed at boxing. One big striker from MMA, maybe Mighty Mo or someone else, was owned in a 6 round bout against a chunky journeyman with a losing record. You cannot even compare the hand skills of a boxer and MMA. To MMA's credit, there are some very good grappler's and submission artists that would be a nightmare for anyone to deal with. But if an MMA guy tried to stand-up with even a mediocre boxer, he would be looking at the lights.:rofl :rofl
Mighty Mo beat Francois Botha in a minute.


Btw.. didnt they have Rampage Jackson (UFC LHW Champ) measured at 1800 psi on that show?

im not sure how accurate any of this is.

[Docgear69]

Rampage punching 1800psi cant be right theres no way he comes close to Foreman or even Iron Mike. I saw the show, but if thats the case Foreman is in the upper 3000's

[demzor]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

theres rampage hitting 1800psi


the whole show seems like cheese

[joe the great]

Rampage punching 1800psi cant be right theres no way he comes close to Foreman or even Iron Mike. I saw the show, but if thats the case Foreman is in the upper 3000's
I wonder how hard Tyson and Foreman hit. Dang Rampage hits right up there with Ivan Drago.

[Larson]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

theres rampage hitting 1800psi


the whole show seems like cheese

Don't they also say on that show that 1800psi is the force at which the human skull shatters or something? I just can't believe he hits that hard.

[Docgear69]

Im sure Rampage is a good puncher, but up there with Big George? No F*cking way!!!!!

[Beebs]

Unless you use the same equipment for everybody, the results aren't going to be that representative of who hits harder.

And most boxers are going to hit harder than most MMA fighters, there might be some freaks like Mighty Mo that punch really hard, but they can't hit anything with regularity.

It's not like power alone is going to make you a KO artist, let alone a good boxer.

[SugarRay]

psi or pounds per square inch is a measure of pressure and not force. if a sumo wrestler puts all his weight behind a punch thereby reducing the area of impact (from the body to the fist) no doubt the damage would be worst than that of Rampage's. Hence, this study is not entirely accurate.

[Beebs]

psi or pounds per square inch is a measure of pressure and not force. if a sumo wrestler puts all his weight behind a punch thereby reducing the area of impact (from the body to the fist) no doubt the damage would be worst than that of Rampage's. Hence, this study is not entirely accurate.

No. Try again.

The actual weight doesn't actually matter because it isn't moving anything and is being pulled down by gravity not sideway by the object, you wouldn't throw a punch any heavier while having a bunch of weight strapped to your body would you?

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

People from all walks of life can hit like a mule. Boxers don't all hit harder than everyone else just because they are boxers. Boxers are more DANGEROUS punchers, because they have better technique, and know how to set up those power shots to land clean.

[SugarRay]

No. Try again.

The actual weight doesn't actually matter because it isn't moving anything and is being pulled down by gravity not sideway by the object, you wouldn't throw a punch any heavier while having a bunch of weight strapped to your body would you?

You would if you were travelling (sideways) by taking a run up or shifting weight from your back foot to the front foot. This way your entire weight (/mass) is behind your punch. Think of a sumo wrestler throwing a punch whilst charging at you. We are not talking about the effects of gravity. It has little bearing on something that is travelling sideways.

According to the law of physics Force = Mass x acceleration and Pressure = Force/Area. There are 2 ways of throwing a punch with more force i.e. you either accelerate your fist faster or put more mass behind it. The latter is the reason why heavy weights throw harder punches than a light weight. However, if you have smaller fists you could hit something with more pressure if the force is the same.

Newton's Third Law of Physics gives explanation as to why having your feet firmly planted to the ground could increase force i.e. equal and opposition reaction. If you were on ice skates your punches wouldn't be as hard.

[Beebs]

You would if you were travelling (sideways) by taking a run up. This way your entire weight (/mass) is behind your punch. We are not talking about the effects of gravity. It has little bearing of something that is travelling sideways.

According to the law of physics Force = Mass x acceleration and Pressure = Force/Area. There are 2 ways of throwing a punch with more force i.e. you either accelerate your fist faster or put more mass behind it. The latter is the reason why heavy weights throw harder punches than a light weight. However, if you have smaller fists you could hit something with more pressure if the force is the same.

No, you wouldn't, and nobody is running and jumping to punch. The fact that you have to come up with that situation for it to work in your mind should tell you that youre wrong right away.

The reason Heavyweights throw harder punches is that they are stronger and have more leverage, not because they are heavier. You're equation doesn't work the way you think it does at all. If the punchers hand happened to fall off mid punch, then the heaviest hand would win assuming they are moving at the same speed. The hand however, is attached to a motor (the body) and is not a free moving object.

The "weight" in the equation comes from the force you generate with your muscles, not your body weight. Seriously, think this through. The strength of the punch depends on the speed and the force generated by the body and the hardness of the glove or bare hand. It's why you transfer more force with a lighter (hence harder) glove or no glove at all than with a heavier glove.

[SugarRay]

No, you wouldn't, and nobody is running and jumping to punch. The fact that you have to come up with that situation for it to work in your mind should tell you that youre wrong right away.

The reason Heavyweights throw harder punches is that they are stronger and have more leverage, not because they are heavier. You're equation doesn't work the way you think it does at all. If the punchers hand happened to fall off mid punch, then the heaviest hand would win assuming they are moving at the same speed. The hand however, is attached to a motor (the body) and is not a free moving object.

The "weight" in the equation comes from the force you generate with your muscles, not your body weight. Seriously, think this through. The strength of the punch depends on the speed and the force generated by the body and the hardness of the glove or bare hand. It's why you transfer more force with a lighter (hence harder) glove or no glove at all than with a heavier glove.

I have thought it through and that was why I came up with that explanation. Taking a run up may not be practical in real life situations but I was stating that to reinforce the point of Force = Mass x Acceleration. I know that this formula works. If you honestly believe that punching from a stationary point generates more force than one with some sort of weigh shift then good for you. I differ in opinion. I go with the laws of physics.

Leverage provides acceleration this is why twisting your body helps. Try throwing a straight punch (without using too much effort) whilst shifting weight from your back foot to your front foot and then compare it to just throwing a straight punch (without moving your body) and see for yourself which is harder. If you prefer, which is going to hurt more having a golf ball or a brick thrown at you? Mass when combined with the right technique matters so, you don't have to try and convince me otherwise.

[Blacc Jesus]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

theres rampage hitting 1800psi


the whole show seems like cheese
Agreed.

[SugarRay]

The reason Heavyweights throw harder punches is that they are stronger and have more leverage, not because they are heavier. You're equation doesn't work the way you think it does at all.

Sorry dude, you are only understanding half the equation (Force = Mass x Acceleration). Strength and Leverage generates Acceleration. To increase Force even further Mass has to be part of it and there is a direct correlation between Force and Mass, which you fail to understand.

[Beebs]

Sorry dude, you are only understanding half the equation (Force = Mass x Acceleration). Strength and Leverage generates Acceleration. To increase Force even further Mass has to be part of it and there is a direct correlation between Force and Mass, which you fail to understand.

Look you stupid mother fucker, I know you have only had 3rd grade science so the only thing you understand is that equation, but ITS NOT THE RIGHT FUCKING EQUATION.

The equation you want is
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
What really matters is the transfer of energry from the puncher to the thing getting punched, the impulse.[Only registered and activated users can see links]_note-0

The way you are thinking of this doesn't take into account the time of impact, a critcally important aspect.

Here is a high school explanation of it, although that might be a bit complicated for you
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[pit]

Im sure Rampage is a good puncher, but up there with Big George? No F*cking way!!!!!

There is the possibility that someone on earth that is not a boxer pac a punch more potent then ether Forman or Tyson , this could be the every day joe walking the street , so it is possible but you also have to remember a strong punch does not make you a fighter or be able to take a punch.

[kirk]

There is the possibility that someone on earth that is not a boxer pac a punch more potent then ether Forman or Tyson , this could be the every day joe walking the street , so it is possible but you also have to remember a strong punch does not make you a fighter of able to take a punch. :good

sorry if im missing the point pit... but i really dont think any every day joe walking the street could have a harder punch then tyson or foreman...

not because they couldnt possess it, but because tyson and foreman have honed that power since childhood, to be able to punch with that much force, and so even if there was some mega powerful puncher (just for example... lets say ray lewis of the ravens packed the best punch ever known) i dont think it would compare to tysons or georges because of how they have built that up over time and the training theyve done... so although his punching power could have exceeded theirs had that been his path in life, it doesnt because it wasnt....

you think so or no?

[kirk]

Look you stupid mother fucker, I know you have only had 3rd grade science so the only thing you understand is that equation, but ITS NOT THE RIGHT FUCKING EQUATION.

The equation you want is
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
What really matters is the transfer of energry from the puncher to the thing getting punched, the impulse.[Only registered and activated users can see links]_note-0

The way you are thinking of this doesn't take into account the time of impact, a critcally important aspect.

Here is a high school explanation of it, although that might be a bit complicated for you
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

thats very interesting... thank you :good

[Punisher33]

The majority of MMA guys have horrible punching technique, which probably limits the speed or force at which they could generate into there punch. I wish FSN would show both a top puncher in MMA and a top puncher in boxing hitting the heavybag, the difference between the 2 would be an eye opening experience. You would not only see that the boxer is much more skilled, but you will also see how much faster and more powerful a boxer truly is.

[Sebastien]

done talking to ya man... your a complete moron

:good

Bare knuckle fighters didn't throw many punches because they'd easily injure their hands.

They had to aim for the soft spots of the head (temple, jaw, nose, etc.) and avoid the forehead and other hard parts.

You would never see any sane bare knuckle fighter throwing 4-5 punch combos the way Tyson did back then or the way Ali was throwing them at an incoming Frazier.

They would have destroyed their knuckles had they done so.

So yes, it made for longer, more tactical fights. I wouldn't say boring, just different.

[pit]

:good

sorry if im missing the point pit... but i really dont think any every day joe walking the street could have a harder punch then tyson or foreman...

not because they couldnt possess it, but because tyson and foreman have honed that power since childhood, to be able to punch with that much force, and so even if there was some mega powerful puncher (just for example... lets say ray lewis of the ravens packed the best punch ever known) i dont think it would compare to tysons or georges because of how they have built that up over time and the training theyve done... so although his punching power could have exceeded theirs had that been his path in life, it doesnt because it wasnt....

you think so or no?

No Problem

But sure there is !! some where out there is a guy who pac one hell of a punch but has no desire to box or fight , it is entirely possible.

Think about how many naturally strong people there are out there who never played a sport in there entire life or even lifted a single weight but have the natural, untapped, untrained potential . Remember if it weren't for cus Mike Tyson would have been one of these every day Joes walking the street with untapped potential, and if I remember correctly Forman started boxing after he turned 17 , mike at age 14 or 15 ..

So these people do exists , they just have other interest ..

[kirk]

Bare knuckle fighters didn't throw many punches because they'd easily injure their hands.

They had to aim for the soft spots of the head (temple, jaw, nose, etc.) and avoid the forehead and other hard parts.

You would never see any sane bare knuckle fighter throwing 4-5 punch combos the way Tyson did back then or the way Ali was throwing them at an incoming Frazier.

They would have destroyed their knuckles had they done so.

So yes, it made for longer, more tactical fights. I wouldn't say boring, just different.

i understand that... but my problem with him is 1) he is a moron... its obvious in his posts 2) he cant process information and facts given to him 3) he says they plodded around for a few rounds (when the fights often went into the 40 round range

and also... bareknuckle was just an example, how bout joe walcott in 1910? or the picture of the SPARRING gloves i put.... they were hit repeadadly with gloves as hard and about as little as mma gloves... and they werent getting knocked out by every power punch that landed...

id be willing to bet that in most of the old day championship bouts, they were hit with plenty of hard shots throughout the fight in the same manner that a lot of these ufc champs got hit, and they went on to win.

It comes down to the FACT that in mma you dont NEED to have good punch resistance to reach the top, so a top mma fighter could have major chin problems when hit with a real good shot.... there are mma guys out there with fine chins... but the field is much much worse then boxing, and thats because in boxing, to even have mild success, you need a base level of punch resistance to get there... so basically everyone we ever see at the elite or world class level HAS superior punch resistance, or they wouldnt have gotten there.

its very simple...

[kirk]

No Problem

But sure there is !! some where out there is a guy who pac one hell of a punch but has no desire to box or fight , it is entirely possible.

Think about how many naturally strong people there are out there who never played a sport in there entire life or even lifted a single weight but have the natural, untapped, untrained potential . Remember if it weren't for cus Mike Tyson would have been one of these every day Joes walking the street with untapped potential, and if I remember correctly Forman started boxing after he turned 17 , mike at age 14 or 15 ..

So these people do exists , they just have other interest ..
Yes... i do understand... but, he wouldnt have punched as hard without that training you see. A tyson who had never entered a boxing gym does not hit as hard as a 25 year old tyson with 10 years punching training...

so even if there are supreme punches out there... i dont think their punch would equal tysons or foremans because they wouldnt have the ability to deliver the punch to equal their power, nor the primary muscles developed that years of training with medicine balls, mitts, heavybag and repetative punching does...

just imo...

[pit]

Yes... i do understand... but, he wouldnt have punched as hard without that training you see. A tyson who had never entered a boxing gym does not hit as hard as a 25 year old tyson with 10 years punching training...

so even if there are supreme punches out there... i dont think their punch would equal tysons or foremans because they wouldnt have the ability to deliver the punch to equal their power, nor the primary muscles developed that years of training with medicine balls, mitts, heavybag and repetative punching does...

just imo...


I feel ya :good

[SugarRay]

Look you stupid mother fucker, I know you have only had 3rd grade science so the only thing you understand is that equation, but ITS NOT THE RIGHT FUCKING EQUATION.

The equation you want is
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
What really matters is the transfer of energry from the puncher to the thing getting punched, the impulse.[Only registered and activated users can see links]_note-0

The way you are thinking of this doesn't take into account the time of impact, a critcally important aspect.

Here is a high school explanation of it, although that might be a bit complicated for you
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

So, all you can do is resort to name calling? Look who the real stupid one is. Furthermore, you have proven your ignorance and lack of understanding by stating the Impulse equation. Look what's critical in the equation... Mass. You have no understanding of it at all. Please seek help and finish school. Let me educate you further. If you want to punch harder put your weight behind your punches...why? Answer lies in my posts that I've been trying to get into your thick head.

[Beebs]

So, all you can do is resort to name calling? Look who the real stupid one is. Furthermore, you have proven your ignorance and lack of understanding by stating the Impulse equation. Look what's critical in the equation... Mass. You have no understanding of it at all. Please seek help and finish school. Let me educate you further. If you want to punch harder put your weight behind your punches...why? Answer lies in my posts that I've been trying to get into your thick head.

Honestly, you might be retarded.

Read the information I posted, it makes it very clear.

[SugarRay]

Honestly, you might be retarded.

Read the information I posted, it makes it very clear.
I think you're the retard here. I don't disagree with strength and leverage creating Acceleration but this means nothing without Mass. Something that school kids understand but, you have continually to failed to. For your information Force, Impulse, Power, Pressure and Energy all have one thing in common... Mass. If you fail to accept then there is no point in me trying to educate you. Peace.

[Beebs]

I think you're the retard here. I don't disagree with strength and leverage creating Acceleration but this means nothing without Mass. Something that school kids understand but, you have continually to failed to. For your information Force, Impulse, Power, Pressure and Energy all have one thing in common... Mass. If you fail to accept then there is no point in me trying to educate you. Peace.

Yes, mass is important, butr how much heavier is a heavyweights fist than a lightweights? Its the weight of the FIST, not of the motionless body. It is not the determining factor in power punching, speed and time of impact are.

Again, you don't punch any harder while wearing a weighted vest, which a Sumo wrestler does in the form of fat. Heavyweights don't hit harder simply from weighing more, its the benefits of functional lean body mass that add to punching power.

[Ethan Trims]

i understand that... but my problem with him is 1) he is a moron... its obvious in his posts 2) he cant process information and facts given to him 3) he says they plodded around for a few rounds (when the fights often went into the 40 round range

and also... bareknuckle was just an example, how bout joe walcott in 1910? or the picture of the SPARRING gloves i put.... they were hit repeadadly with gloves as hard and about as little as mma gloves... and they werent getting knocked out by every power punch that landed...

id be willing to bet that in most of the old day championship bouts, they were hit with plenty of hard shots throughout the fight in the same manner that a lot of these ufc champs got hit, and they went on to win.

It comes down to the FACT that in mma you dont NEED to have good punch resistance to reach the top, so a top mma fighter could have major chin problems when hit with a real good shot.... there are mma guys out there with fine chins... but the field is much much worse then boxing, and thats because in boxing, to even have mild success, you need a base level of punch resistance to get there... so basically everyone we ever see at the elite or world class level HAS superior punch resistance, or they wouldnt have gotten there.

its very simple...

You sound like a rejected female.

Me calling you stupid kind of dug in deep didnt it?

[untmike]

I didnt see the show but it sounds like wat they are saying is Bas Ruten kicked at 900 lb of presser, not punched. Legs are natually much stronger than arms so of coarse his kick is gonna be more than a boxers punch, but his punch isnt gonna be close to a Heavyweight boxers

[Ethan Trims]

And just to clarify for any other simple minded peeps out there who misinterpret my comment about old fighters who "stalk for only a couple of rounds".

I was implying that they stalk for a couple of rounds before any actions takes place, in a slow paced fight. NOT that they only fought for a couple of rounds before the fight was over.

I dont know why anyone would have trouble understanding this, but oh well.

[SugarRay]

Yes, mass is important, butr how much heavier is a heavyweights fist than a lightweights? Its the weight of the FIST, not of the motionless body. It is not the determining factor in power punching, speed and time of impact are.

Again, you don't punch any harder while wearing a weighted vest, which a Sumo wrestler does in the form of fat. Heavyweights don't hit harder simply from weighing more, its the benefits of functional lean body mass that add to punching power.

Who's talking about the weight of the fist? This weight is a factor but, only a small factor. All along I have been talking about putting your weight behind the punch, i.e. your body weight. I didn't mention the weight of the fist because if dulls in comparison. Do you not think the body weight of the sumo wrestler isn't more than that of Jackson's??? If the sumo applied his body weight behind a punch along with the right technique (to further increase Acceleration) do you not think he could punch harder than Jackson? That clip did not show that and, hence I said it was not entirely accurate because it was not comparing like for like. Furthermore, the clip incorrectly stated the mass of the fist but, if you look at Jackson's punch he threw his whole body into it. That's why he was able to generate 1800 lbs of force.

Btw, a heavyweight's fist and arm probably weighs 2-3 times that of a lightweights. That's just a guess and could vary greatly. When you punch from a stationary position i.e. not applying body weight the weight of your arm has also got to be taken into account and not just your fist. If you transferred weight from one leg to another then your body weight has to be taken into account. Think this will be the last time I'm going to explain this.

[Beebs]

The mass of whats moving is the only mass that matters.

Heavyweights punch harder because they transfer more force through stonger bodies, which keep their body stiff at the moment of impact, hence a bigger impact. Until you get these basic concepts you won't understand punching.

[SugarRay]

The mass of whats moving is the only mass that matters.

Heavyweights punch harder because they transfer more force through stonger bodies, which keep their body stiff at the moment of impact, hence a bigger impact. Until you get these basic concepts you won't understand punching.

So, a heavyweight doesn't move his body forward when he punches? Jackson didn't move his body in the clip? The sumo wrestler didn't move his body forward when he charged at his opponent? I think you're the one who doesn't understand simple dynamics of motion. A stiff body means nothing when there is no Mass behind it and I say this again if you still don't get it for the 5th time. We are not just talking about the mass of the fist we are talking about the entire mass of the person who is throwing the punch. Weight transfer (from the back foot to the front foot) is a key element in throwing a harder punch.

[Kamil]

Look you stupid mother fucker, I know you have only had 3rd grade science so the only thing you understand is that equation, but ITS NOT THE RIGHT FUCKING EQUATION.

The equation you want is
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
What really matters is the transfer of energry from the puncher to the thing getting punched, the impulse.[Only registered and activated users can see links]_note-0

The way you are thinking of this doesn't take into account the time of impact, a critcally important aspect.

Here is a high school explanation of it, although that might be a bit complicated for you
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
wow beebs you pretty dumb, you making yourself look bad, honesty learn your fuken laws of physics before saying shit bro.. Frist of all the punch Force DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE SIZE OF THE FUKEN FIST you dumbass that plays a very small role in a punch becuz u telling me the body is motionless haha, when throwing a punch a boxer applys body weight into one target dumbass NOT JUST THE FIST, IT BEGANS AT THE BACK FOOT, and into the FIST, called kinetic linkage, just like when u PUSH, U USE UR LEGS, to push harder, thats why in boxing and even football they have STANCES, and also WHY they teach a boxer when throwing a fuken punch to be on ur toes and twist your hips, and your body...

NOW MASS X ACCERATION = FORCE, is the fuken right equation dumbass, your fist isn't indepent FROM YOUR BODY, you apply MORE weight when you put your body into which = FORCE, and the QUICKER you throw the punch = ACCERATION and if apply all your body weight the more FORCE you get.

M X A = F

Another thing that proves your are a moron is why the fuk you putting the equation of momentum and impulse.... thats newtons 3rd LAW, EVERY REACTION HAS EQUAL OPPOSITE REACTION.. THATS ONLY IMPORTANT DURING THE COLLISION WHEN THE GLOVES HITS THE OPPENTS FACE...............................................................................

Learn your fuken physics

anyways back to boxing, the truth is, what if you can impact 1000lb of force, but it doesnt mean every punch you land will be 1000lbs of force, why perfect balance, stance, acceration, speed, weight, aim, is so damn important to throw a perfect punch, now for MMA and Boxing, MMA is very freestyle very off balance sport, while boxing has a solid powerful stance and balance to throw a perfect punch, it's VERY POSSIBLE for a MMA to throw a punch as hard as a heavyweight Pro Boxer, Law of Physics says so, but does he have the balance, and stance and speed to impact the most damage? While the sport of boxing does, why Boxers can hit harder than MMA fighters

[Sebastien]

i understand that... but my problem with him is 1) he is a moron... its obvious in his posts 2) he cant process information and facts given to him 3) he says they plodded around for a few rounds (when the fights often went into the 40 round range

and also... bareknuckle was just an example, how bout joe walcott in 1910? or the picture of the SPARRING gloves i put.... they were hit repeadadly with gloves as hard and about as little as mma gloves... and they werent getting knocked out by every power punch that landed...

id be willing to bet that in most of the old day championship bouts, they were hit with plenty of hard shots throughout the fight in the same manner that a lot of these ufc champs got hit, and they went on to win.

It comes down to the FACT that in mma you dont NEED to have good punch resistance to reach the top, so a top mma fighter could have major chin problems when hit with a real good shot.... there are mma guys out there with fine chins... but the field is much much worse then boxing, and thats because in boxing, to even have mild success, you need a base level of punch resistance to get there... so basically everyone we ever see at the elite or world class level HAS superior punch resistance, or they wouldnt have gotten there.

its very simple...

I think the "lesser punch resistance" of MMA boils down to the fact that they can't slip punches.

Boxers rarely get hit flush.

MMA fighters often rush into punches

[pit]

I dont know how many of you watched that Figth Science show last night. In the show they measured the strenght of the blows the MMA fighters were throwing at this dummy.
Bas Ruten could exert 900 lbs of pressure on this dummy. After those results they said that thats as hard as a heavyweight boxer punches at.
I asked some people on here last night and someone showed me a link that said Hatton punches at 882. Hatton is no heavy weight or considered to be a one punch knockout type of guy.

Does anyone else know what actually a heavyweight boxer punches at??
That show seemed kind of biased and i refuse to believe those chumps can punch harder than a heavyweight fighter.
Imagine Klitschkos right hand...



[Only registered and activated users can see links]


This boxer exerted a thousand pounds of force .

[Beebs]

learn your fuken laws of physics

Yea, you seem real credible.

Learn what "impulse" is and how it applies here then start talking. Actually don't bother, just go kill yourself.

And for the record, putting your body weight into a punch is just a way of explaining that you need to use your whole body to punch and not just your arms, it doesn't actually mean your weight is transfered through the fist, the weight of your body is still transfered to the ground. I'm not going to argue with people who refuse to learn when the facts are simply and clearly presented to them.

[SugarRay]

Yea, you seem real credible.

Learn what "impulse" is and how it applies here then start talking. Actually don't bother, just go kill yourself.

And for the record, putting your body weight into a punch is just a way of explaining that you need to use your whole body to punch and not just your arms, it doesn't actually mean your weight is transfered through the fist, the weight of your body is still transfered to the ground. I'm not going to argue with people who refuse to learn when the facts are simply and clearly presented to them.
beebs, it is very clear that you just don't understand physics. You keep confusing the force created by gravity, which acts downwards and the one that is created when you run, walk, whatever which is the sideways force. In both instances your Mass is involved. When someone throws a brick at you (object moving sideways) why do you think there is force behind it? The brick doesn't have arms or legs strength to give it force. It's because the brick has Mass and it was Accelerated at you by a throw. A boxer throws a stronger punch by utilising his Mass (by accelerating it) and accelerating his fist/arm at the target as well. Once you extend and stiffen your arm out upon impact you have utilised your Mass, which was in motion to create additional force. Please get help from your coach or someone.

Jackson's punch was measure at 1800lbs or roughly 800kgs. Do you think he could just have relied on his strength to create 800kgs of force with one hand? Professional weightlifters couldn't even do it. I bet Jackson would be struggling to lift 100kgs with one arm. His Mass was involved dude. Get educated.

[nighthunter]

Virtually every MMA fighter I've ever seen has ZERO idea how to punch effectively. They arm punch and get no leverage on their shots. This includes even the so-called "champions."

It's why I don't like MMA.

You could take your average trained club fighter boxer and they punch harder than the top level MMA guys. Boxers are trained to punch through muscle memory and using technique to maximize impact.

MMA guys are trained to take you down and grapple, not punch.

Remember folks, just cuz you saw it on a TV show doesn't make it true.
:good
boxer are train to punch :lol: :lol: :lol:

[GTWOSIX]

Boxers hit harder.

[Stoo]

Boxers hit harder.
Im glad you cleared that up. Ive been waiting nearly 3 years for this moment...

[greathamza]

Boxers hit harder.

you know this thread is from jan 2008 right? we are in april 2011

[amhlilhaus]

I saw that episode, they were all over bas' dick and made him out to be superman, he punched harder than a heavyweight boxer, he kicked harder than a champion muay thai kickboxer, and he lasted longer than any porn star.

when he did the punching test he wound up like a top and swung for the fences, so while it was a impressive result he'd never land a punch like that in a fight.

[greathamza]

also from the test done ufc HW champ hits harder than prime tyson and foreman

[SouthpawSlayer]

Yes, mass is important, butr how much heavier is a heavyweights fist than a lightweights? Its the weight of the FIST, not of the motionless body. It is not the determining factor in power punching, speed and time of impact are.

Again, you don't punch any harder while wearing a weighted vest, which a Sumo wrestler does in the form of fat. Heavyweights don't hit harder simply from weighing more, its the benefits of functional lean body mass that add to punching power.


wtf

[Primate]

Holy crap, this thread is hilarious :)

[iceferg]

I've seen Rampage do 1800 psi on a show. Enzo Macrinelli was recorded as having the same fource as a transit van hitting you at 30 mph. All the research I've seen suggests that heavier fighters hit harder even p4p than lighter fighters.
I don't believe the punchers are born theory. I train both boxing and MMA. I have always thought boxers have better punches. My trainer who has had several fights in both said he's never even been buzzed in a cage. I would say that of course an MMA guy normally wins a fight. Also boxing gloves actually cause more damage than MMA gloves do to the brain although they prevent superficial damage. Boxing has a lot more deaths than MMA because it is all concentrated striking with more damaging gloves. As far as I know there has only been deaths in Vale Tudo (which has less rules).

[HENDO]

Ha ha, remember that bullshit where they tried to make Coutore like he was gonna actually and try n fight Toney instead of gay ass wrestle.

They thought he was gonna punch harder, but Toney punched at 1300 lbs, which was over 1/3 higher than Couture.

Then they said,....well uh, Couture can do dirty boxing.

Shit didn't happen though.

He was way too scared to throw his hands.

[Wilhelm]

I saw that episode, they were all over bas' dick and made him out to be superman, he punched harder than a heavyweight boxer, he kicked harder than a champion muay thai kickboxer, and he lasted longer than any porn star.

when he did the punching test he wound up like a top and swung for the fences, so while it was a impressive result he'd never land a punch like that in a fight.

Yeah, like I said three fucking years ago (seriously, why dig this stupid thread up?), the fact that a big strong guy that knows how to punch can his as hard as a heavyweight boxer doesn't surprise me. The key here people is that BOXING IS ABOUT 20% PUNCHING, and what makes up the difference from big guys that hit hard and boxers is that boxer can throw hard punches without winding up or getting off balance and can throw them accurately and in combinations, all while moving their head and feet.

This comparison reminds me of trying to put one of those "world's strongest man" goons who has never played football out there and ask them to block and NFL nose tackle. They may both be strong and such, but there are a million techniques that the pro will use to make the other guy look ridiculous that have nothing to do with strength.

[Wilhelm]

Ha ha, remember that bullshit where they tried to make Coutore like he was gonna actually and try n fight Toney instead of gay ass wrestle.

They thought he was gonna punch harder, but Toney punched at 1300 lbs, which was over 1/3 higher than Couture.

Then they said,....well uh, Couture can do dirty boxing.

Shit didn't happen though.

He was way too scared to throw his hands.
:lol:

Couture crushed and owned Toney. Everybody but you knows all about it, including Toney.