'Smokin' Joe Frazier (March 8, 1971) vs. 'The Brown Bomber' Joe Louis (Sept 24, 1935)

[Sardu]

So savage was Frazier's attack against Ali that night in the garden that a famous sportswrite described him as fighting like - A wild beast caught in a thicket. Frazier was never the same again. The mental and physical toll of that New York evening stays with Frazier till this very day. It was one of the absolute greatest battles in history and Frazier fought brilliantly as did Ali. But Frazier clearly won although suffering the more residual damage as evidenced by later fights. Ali was slightly diminished too afterwards but not nearly as much. Louis on this date fought a man who was feared in boxing - Max Baer. And with good reason. For Max Baer once hit an opponent so hard he literally tore his brain away from the brainstem. Baer was still close to his prime having lost his title just months before to the 'Cinderella Man' James J. Braddock. So this was Baer's chance to redeem himself and get back ontrack. On this evening he was in for a rude awakening. The deadly punching, stoic youngster turned Max's face into a fountain of blood and bruises in just 4 rounds. Baer landed some good punches but to no avail. This was the physical destruction of one great fighter by an even greater fighter. Baer would never be the same. Louis went on to become arguably the greatest HW of alltime and, according to many, the greatest fighter ever.


Could Louis hold off the determined and relentless Smokin' Joe?

Could Frazier stand in there against Louis' precision power punching?

If there was any one time Frazier could possibly beat Louis this would be the time. On or before March 8, 1971 Joe Frazier was the truth. However, in this fight I have to pick Louis. Too much handspeed and power.

Louis KO 6 Frazier

[dmt]

Louis tko 8

[Topdawg]

One has to take into consideration that Louis did not do well with swarmers. But you bet that there's gona be a lot of firework... I do not count out an early TKO coming at the hands of the Brown Bomber!

[fists of fury]

One has to take into consideration that Louis did not do well with swarmers.

Very good point.
Still, I can't see Louis losing this one.
I think he'd win on points, maybe late round TKO.

[Amsterdam]

Frazier KO 1.

[markedwardscott]

They were both slow starters who got knocked down in the early rounds a few times. Louis, deadly accurate, would probably win. He was more vulerable to rights than left hooks.

[Jack]

Louis is not going to beat many great punchers at heavyweight. Especially not someone as agressive as Frazier. Louis would be pushed on the backfoot and torn to shreds by ripping left hooks to the jaw. His weak chin would fail him in around 6 rounds.

Louis does well aganist fighters who he can back up. Against Frazier, Tyson, Foreman etc., he hasn't got the defensive abilities or the chin to withstand such pressure.

Frazier's defence, power and aggression is a nightmare for Louis.

[PhillyPhan69]

Maybe it's the Philly bias...but outside of Foreman and liston, i feel comfortable w/ joe's (smokin' Joe that is!) chances against anyone. I will take a frazier UD..the only certainty is that a Joe will win.

[Sonny's jab]

Frazier's a favourite of mine but prime for prime, I think Joe Louis would slaughter him inside 4 rounds.

Joe Louis is surprisingly underrated in these head-to-head scenarios. Most guys on this forum were picking Tyson over Louis on the other thread. And now Frazier.

[round15]

I'd pick Joe Frazier by KO between rounds 9 and 11 or by a close decision win. Tony Galento had Louis wobbly and in trouble until he started loading up on shots. The only Frazier I could see Joe Louis beating is the 1973 overweight, out of shape version that Foreman destroyed in two rounds. Joe Louis could probably KO this version of Frazier just as swift as Foreman did, especially if Louis comes into this fight with the same mentality as the Max Schmeling rematch. Nobody knocks out the Joe Frazier circa 1967 - 1971. This Frazier gives every heavyweight in history a very tough fight, including Foreman and Tyson, who many on this forum are quick to conclude would destroy Frazier every time.

[PhillyPhan69]

I'd pick Joe Frazier by KO between rounds 9 and 11 or by a close decision win. Tony Galento had Louis wobbly and in trouble until he started loading up on shots. The only Frazier I could see Joe Louis beating is the 1973 overweight, out of shape version that Foreman destroyed in two rounds. Joe Louis could probably KO this version of Frazier just as swift as Foreman did, especially if Louis comes into this fight with the same mentality as the Max Schmeling rematch. Nobody knocks out the Joe Frazier circa 1967 - 1971. This Frazier gives every heavyweight in history a very tough fight, including Foreman and Tyson, who many on this forum are quick to conclude would destroy Frazier every time.

Question...if you are a newbie???? why do you presume to know what many would conclude here on this forum????

[Mendoza]

Frazier's a favourite of mine but prime for prime, I think Joe Louis would slaughter him inside 4 rounds.

Joe Louis is surprisingly underrated in these head-to-head scenarios. Most guys on this forum were picking Tyson over Louis on the other thread. And now Frazier.

I think Louis would win.

[mr. magoo]

This would be a pick em' fight, but if forced to choose, I would be inclined to go with Frazier. Sure Louis, had the technical punching ability and power to score a KO here, but he also struggled with left hookers who were big hitters. Frazier likely had more handspeed, better power, and superior accuracy with the left hook than any of Louis's opponents. Also, as one poster already pointed out, Louis did not like swarmers, and Frazier had a knack for being all over his opponents. The only man who ever truly TKO'd Frazier was Foreman, who although was not the techinician that Louis was, had arguably superior power and the ability to lift Frazier off the canvas-something Louis would not be able to do. This was also a declining Frazier that Foreman fought as well.

Frazier by stoppage late.

[Sardu]

Louis is not going to beat many great punchers at heavyweight. Especially not someone as agressive as Frazier. Louis would be pushed on the backfoot and torn to shreds by ripping left hooks to the jaw. His weak chin would fail him in around 6 rounds.

Louis does well aganist fighters who he can back up. Against Frazier, Tyson, Foreman etc., he hasn't got the defensive abilities or the chin to withstand such pressure.

Frazier's defence, power and aggression is a nightmare for Louis.

This was a very enlightening post. He makes great points about Louis never facng anyone who would put such suffocating and consistent pressure on him like Frazier would. And about Louis not being a defensive genius (ala Ali or Machen) who could successfully deal with an animal like this prime Frazier. Marciano could be a template possibly for this matchup. The only thing is that Louis was washed up when he fought Marciano. Also, Frazier may have been quicker but Marciano hit harder and had a better chin than Frazier did. Wow, this is a hard one to pick a winner for. Guess I'll stick with my pick of Louis but it's hard.

[round15]

Question...if you are a newbie???? why do you presume to know what many would conclude here on this forum????

Not presuming anything. I've read quite a few posts from different threads, mostly discrediting Frazier based on the one fight in 1973 against George Foreman. The majority of the posts I've read comparing Tyson and Foreman with Frazier have Joe getting beaten by those two fighters regardless of which Frazier is used for comparison. No disrespect to anyone on this forum but my point is that Joe Frazier gets very little respect on this forum. He was one of the greatest of the shorter fighters in the history of the sport.

[janitor]

One thing that Louis punished verry serverely was taking a step forward.

I think that Fraziers whirlwind attack would give Louis enough rope to hang him.

[janitor]

Louis is not going to beat many great punchers at heavyweight. Especially not someone as agressive as Frazier. Louis would be pushed on the backfoot and torn to shreds by ripping left hooks to the jaw. His weak chin would fail him in around 6 rounds.

Louis does well aganist fighters who he can back up. Against Frazier, Tyson, Foreman etc., he hasn't got the defensive abilities or the chin to withstand such pressure.


You dont even have a clue about Louis do you?

Not even how his basic style worked.

[PhillyPhan69]

Not presuming anything. I've read quite a few posts from different threads, mostly discrediting Frazier based on the one fight in 1973 against George Foreman. The majority of the posts I've read comparing Tyson and Foreman with Frazier have Joe getting beaten by those two fighters regardless of which Frazier is used for comparison. No disrespect to anyone on this forum but my point is that Joe Frazier gets very little respect on this forum. He was one of the greatest of the shorter fighters in the history of the sport.

Thanks! Frazier seems to get little credit anymore, in many cases is left out of top 10 and sometimes top 15 rankings...in H2H he seems to get little respect...Although in regards to Tyson (and Holy) I seem to remember a similar poll on both and opinion seemed divided, rather than a heavy dose of one or the other...peace!

[JIm Broughton]

I say it's Louis early or Frazier late. If Louis can catch Frazier before he gets warmed up and in his rythym then he could hurt Frazier, drop him a few times and TKO Smokin' Joe. If he chooses to try to feel out Frazier for the first few rounds then he's asking for trouble. Frazier would make Louis fight at a much faster pace than he is accustomed to and Louis could'nt dance away from danger like Ali could. In a war of attrition it's hard to bet against Frazier, at least the Frazier from the late 60's and early 70's which is why I feel Louis' best chance would be to jump on Frazier from the opening bell ala the second schmeling fight and not let Smoke warmup. Drop him,cut him and let the ref call a halt to it early. If he does'nt I see Frazier doing it to Joe around the 8th or 9th.

[werety]

This is a horrible matchup for Frazier, Louis within 6.

[BUDW]

So savage was Frazier's attack against Ali that night in the garden that a famous sportswrite described him as fighting like - A wild beast caught in a thicket. Frazier was never the same again. The mental and physical toll of that New York evening stays with Frazier till this very day. It was one of the absolute greatest battles in history and Frazier fought brilliantly as did Ali. But Frazier clearly won although suffering the more residual damage as evidenced by later fights. Ali was slightly diminished too afterwards but not nearly as much. Louis on this date fought a man who was feared in boxing - Max Baer. And with good reason. For Max Baer once hit an opponent so hard he literally tore his brain away from the brainstem. Baer was still close to his prime having lost his title just months before to the 'Cinderella Man' James J. Braddock. So this was Baer's chance to redeem himself and get back ontrack. On this evening he was in for a rude awakening. The deadly punching, stoic youngster turned Max's face into a fountain of blood and bruises in just 4 rounds. Baer landed some good punches but to no avail. This was the physical destruction of one great fighter by an even greater fighter. Baer would never be the same. Louis went on to become arguably the greatest HW of alltime and, according to many, the greatest fighter ever.


Could Louis hold off the determined and relentless Smokin' Joe?

Could Frazier stand in there against Louis' precision power punching?

If there was any one time Frazier could possibly beat Louis this would be the time. On or before March 8, 1971 Joe Frazier was the truth. However, in this fight I have to pick Louis. Too much handspeed and power.

Louis KO 6 Frazier

Ali is in much worse shape than Joe,who really took the most damage? Ali

[SteveO]

Did Louis ever fight a swarmer like Frazier?

[radianttwilight]

Did Louis ever fight a swarmer like Frazier?

He fought Marciano when he was an old man - he got stopped in a pretty brutal fashion.

What Uncle Sam did to Joe Louis is one of boxing's tragedies. Louis was a great champ and a good guy as well.

[Sardu]

Ali is in much worse shape than Joe,who really took the most damage? Ali


Correct. But in the short term it was Frazier who suffered more. Frazier was hospitalized with dehydration and just generally a wreck after that fight. Ali is worse today but he also fought a lot more than Frazier and logged many more rounds against better fighters than Frazier faced.

[fists of fury]

[quote=Sardu]This was a very enlightening post. He makes great points about Louis never facng anyone who would put such suffocating and consistent pressure on him like Frazier would. [\quote]

On the other hand, Frazier never faced a man who could punch with such lethal precision, and with ripping power to boot. If Ali could make Frazier's face swell up like a baloon, Joe Louis would make Frazier look like he had been through a meat grinder twice.

Frazier was no defensive wizard either and if Louis found his range and timing against Joe, I can't see him losing.

[yancey]

You dont even have a clue about Louis do you?

Not even how his basic style worked.

Let's see, you are calling the man clueless because he likes Frazier to take out Louis in 6, right?

I like Smokin' Joe in 5. What do I get called? :bbb

[Luigi1985]

Frazier´s pressure style would play into Louis fast and heavy combinations, IMO Louis would brutally KO Joe in the middlerounds...

[Sardu]

Frazier´s pressure style would play into Louis fast and heavy combinations, IMO Louis would brutally KO Joe in the middlerounds...


My sentiments exactly. Louis KO 6.

[Luigi1985]

My sentiments exactly. Louis KO 6.



:thumbsup

[Holmes' Jab]

Louis TKO11.

[janitor]

[quote=yancey]Let's see, you are calling the man clueless because he likes Frazier to take out Louis in 6, right?


No because his analysis of Louis's style is all wrong.

I like Smokin' Joe in 5. What do I get called? :bbb

Yancey will do for now.

[Manassa]

Frazier would take a lot of hammering before he went out. If this fight takes place in the thirties or forties with slightly smaller gloves and a less humane referee, Frazier would likely suffer a few broken bits.

Not sure if the '35 Louis is the one to do it though, I may even favour Frazier there. I've always thought Louis was better in the early '40s where he had a bit more experience and professionalism, while still retaining his youth.

[janitor]

Frazier´s pressure style would play into Louis fast and heavy combinations, IMO Louis would brutally KO Joe in the middlerounds...

One thing Im sure we can all agree on is that Frazier would not look prety at the end of it after walking into all those clusterbombs.

[Bummy Davis]

Louis by KO......Louis may get rocked or dropped but get up to dominate and win by KO