Where does Kostya Tszyu rank all-time at 140 lbs? [Archive]

01-30-2008, 01:39 PM

fatdrunkenslob

01-30-2008, 01:40 PM

Somewhere in the top 3 for sure.

196osh

01-30-2008, 01:42 PM

He beats Pryor all day and and all night.

Why do you say that?

faisal

01-30-2008, 01:43 PM

if tszyu didnt allow some one as mediocre as vince phillips get the better of him he would be ranked higher then chavez

01-30-2008, 01:44 PM

Why do you say that?

see above.

David_TheMan

01-30-2008, 01:44 PM

Top 8 -10

brownpimp88

01-30-2008, 01:46 PM

Have you guys forgotten about the likes of antonio cervantes, nicolino locce and barney ross. Yes ross spent a vast majority of his career at 140.

bxrfan

01-30-2008, 01:48 PM

if tszyu didnt allow some one as mediocre as vince phillips get the better of him he would be ranked higher then chavez
Vince Phillips in his prime wasn't mediocre.

brooklyn1550

01-30-2008, 01:49 PM

I have him number 3 (behind Chavez and Pryor).

In a head to head matchup with Pryor, he gets destroyed.

196osh

01-30-2008, 01:53 PM

see above.

Ok. Well Koysta hates pressure, Pryor would walk all over him. He had pressure and fantastic skill head/upper body movment, handspeed, great power and great workrate.

Pryor by KO.

brooklyn1550

01-30-2008, 01:54 PM

Pryor's boxing skills are highly underrated. He was good from the outside; hard to hit, good counterpuncher, and excellent overall handspeed.

Nico

01-30-2008, 01:59 PM

if tszyu didnt allow some one as mediocre as vince phillips get the better of him he would be ranked higher then chavez

Ah, the inevitably mention of Cool Vince.

And what about the fact that Tszyu is such a quitter, too? You forgot to mention that. We should always factor that in when we're talking about prime head to head matchups against the other 140 pound greats. I mean, he quit in the last fight of his career after eleven grueling rounds- that must mean that he would always quit if the going got tough, right? And if he lost to someone the caliber of Vince Phillips, then we can conclude that he'd get KO'd early by Pryor or Chavez, right?

Asterion

01-30-2008, 02:00 PM

Number 2 or 3.

1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2/3. Aaron Pryor and Kostya Tsyzu

shelterr

01-30-2008, 02:06 PM

Hawk Time!

China_hand_Joe

01-30-2008, 02:30 PM

Number one.

Tszyu is a top 10 all time P4P fighter.

albeziel

01-30-2008, 02:39 PM

It's fair to say top 5

EpsilonAxis

01-30-2008, 02:42 PM

IMO he's the best ever at that division.

A Prime Zoo was something else.

bxrfan

01-30-2008, 02:45 PM

IMO he's the best ever at that division.

A Prime Zoo was something else.
A Prime Zoo was something else that got KTFO against Vince Phillips. :deal

China_hand_Joe

01-30-2008, 02:49 PM

Why does any thread initally regarding Tszyu's brilliance always end up being a demonstration of American boxing ignorance.

Drew101

01-30-2008, 02:55 PM

Why does any thread initally regarding Tszyu's brilliance always end up being a demonstration of American boxing ignorance.

Ah, American ignorance...:D

My personal list:

1. JCC (Mexican)
2. Pryor (American)
3. Ross (American)
4. Nicolino Locce (Argentine)
5. Dulio Loi (Italian)
6. Wilfred Benitez (Puerto Rican)
7. Antonio Cervantes (Columbian)
8. Kostya Tsyzu (Russian)

That's a grand total of two americans out of the first 8.

Ring Master

01-30-2008, 02:59 PM

Ah, American ignorance...:D

My personal list:

1. JCC (Mexican)
2. Pryor (American)
3. Ross (American)
4. Nicolino Locce (Argentine)
5. Dulio Loi (Italian)
6. Wilfred Benitez (Puerto Rican)
7. Antonio Cervantes (Columbian)
8. Kostya Tsyzu (Russian)

That's a grand total of two americans out of the first 8.

:good

How no one mentioned Wilfredo Benitez is amazing.

brooklyn1550

01-30-2008, 03:04 PM

:good

How no one mentioned Wilfredo Benitez is amazing.

Wilfred Benitez is top 10 at 140 and higher on a head to head basis, but aside from his win over Antonio Cervantes, his resume is a little thin. I'd put Kostya ahead of him solely on longevity and total number of title defenses.

FlatNose

01-30-2008, 03:04 PM

Everybody here is rating Tszyu way too high! I can't believe that anyone , except for Mamma Tszyu, would even dream that Kostya would have beaten Aaron Pryor. Would he have even beaten Alexis Arguello? No! Antonio Cervantes, Wilfred Benitez, Noooooooo!
Hey, the guy had power and speed, but was way too one dimensional. He could be taken out of his comfort zone by crowding him and pushing him around, like Hatton did. Don't forget, when he fought Hatton, Tszyu was coming off a very impressive win over Shambra Mitchell. He didn't get old overnight, his Achilles Heel got exposed. Pryor would have run him over.

Ring Master

01-30-2008, 03:12 PM

Wilfred Benitez is top 10 at 140 and higher on a head to head basis, but aside from his win over Antonio Cervantes, his resume is a little thin. I'd put Kostya ahead of him solely on longevity and total number of title defenses.

I hear that, But let me ask you this...What great 140 pound fighter did Kosta beat? and does he have a better win then Antonio Cervantes in your opinion?

brooklyn1550

01-30-2008, 03:14 PM

I hear that, But let me ask you this...What great 140 pound fighter did Kosta beat? and does he have a better win then Antonio Cervantes in your opinion?

Nope

Benitez's win over Cervantes is easily the best win on either resume. And Pryor's wins over Cervantes and Arguello surpass Tszyu's best wins too.

Ring Master

01-30-2008, 03:16 PM

Nope

Benitez's win over Cervantes is easily the best win on either resume. And Pryor's wins over Cervantes and Arguello surpass Tszyu's best wins too.So can it be a case of quality over quantity?

brooklyn1550

01-30-2008, 03:20 PM

So can it be a case of quality over quantity?

Spot on

I rate Tszyu highly because he cleaned out the division and dominated for a long time, despite never beating a great fighter at their peak.

Drew101

01-30-2008, 03:24 PM

I hear that, But let me ask you this...What great 140 pound fighter did Kosta beat? and does he have a better win then Antonio Cervantes in your opinion?

Yeah...that's why he rates so low (not that #8 is anything to sneeze about). JCC had Meldrick Taylor, plus a whole bunch of really solid contenders and former titlists. Pryor had Cervantes and Arguello, plus DuJuan Johnson and Hwang. Ross had Conzoneri. Loi had Ortiz. Locce and Benitez had Cervantes. Cervantes had Estaban DeJesus, and a past his best but still viable Locce.

KT doesn't have anyone that good at 140lbs on their resume, and that's why he gets rated in that spot on my list.

ocelot

01-30-2008, 03:58 PM

Pryor was on a different level. He destroyed Arguello, twice. Tszyu would absolutely never have beaten him.

Rock0052

01-30-2008, 04:10 PM

Theo

01-30-2008, 04:23 PM

Vince Phillips in his prime wasn't mediocre.

vince won a title LAST YEAR at like 42. (it was a abc, but still, props to the old crackhead).

Sweet Pea

01-30-2008, 04:36 PM

He beats Pryor all day and and all night.How in the name of God can you think that when he couldn't even handle the pressure and fight of a B level Phillips? Pryor is THE worst possible matchup for Tszyu. A swarmer of any top level is, really.

Sweet Pea

01-30-2008, 04:38 PM

Tszyu would box the crap out of Pryor, who was great to watch but not in Tszyus calibre when talking about technique and overall boxing ability. I see Aaron get picked to peices and walking into hard straight rights.

Tszyu wide UD.I see Aaron completely overwhelming him just like any top swarmer would do to Tszyu. Against pressure, when he doesn't have the space to time his straight rights, or time and place his punches(which is his whole game) then he is fucked. Hell, someone that stodd even ground and was able to take his shots and give em back(a B level fighter at that) was able to overwhelm him for God' sake and KO him. Pryor would have Tszyu out of there within 5 or 6. I have NO doubts about it.

China_hand_Joe

01-30-2008, 04:39 PM

Ah, American ignorance...:D

My personal list:

1. JCC (Mexican)
2. Pryor (American)
3. Ross (American)
4. Nicolino Locce (Argentine)
5. Dulio Loi (Italian)
6. Wilfred Benitez (Puerto Rican)
7. Antonio Cervantes (Columbian)
8. Kostya Tsyzu (Russian)

That's a grand total of two americans out of the first 8.

A grand total of 6 American fighters mate (7 whom spent a fair amont of time n America). Each and everyone inferior to Tszyu (except arguably Pyor).

Sweet Pea

01-30-2008, 04:39 PM

Number one.

Tszyu is a top 10 all time P4P fighter.You're so stupid it hurts.

Sweet Pea

01-30-2008, 04:42 PM

Why does any thread initally regarding Tszyu's brilliance always end up being a demonstration of American boxing ignorance.Tszyu was beaten by a B level fighter in his prime at his own game, amd KO'd nonetheless. Head to head, he loses to any top notch swarmer, and better boxer-punchers straight up., and don't tell me there are none, we know how untrue that is.

Ring Master

01-30-2008, 04:55 PM

Spot on

I rate Tszyu highly because he cleaned out the division and dominated for a long time, despite never beating a great fighter at their peak.

Yo, what happend to that pic of Cotto in the Klu Klux Klan outfit?

:lol: Post that pic please...

Shake

01-30-2008, 05:02 PM

Aaron Pryor beat Hearns in the amateurs. Not that that means everything, but at least we know he can cope with a strong right hand.

brooklyn1550

01-30-2008, 05:03 PM

Yo, what happend to that pic of Cotto in the Klu Klux Klan outfit?

:lol: Post that pic please...

I never thought about it, but now that you mention it, Cotto does look like he's wearing a KKK outfit. Hmm...I guess I wont be using this as an avatar anymore.:lol:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Sweet Pea

01-30-2008, 05:08 PM

Aaron Pryor beat Hearns in the amateurs. Not that that means everything, but at least we know he can cope with a strong right hand.Hearns had very little power as an amateur, he developed it under Manny Steward. Still though, Pryor proved his chin more than once, and Tszyu's foil is a strong swarmer like Pryor.

Sedona

01-30-2008, 05:42 PM

#1.

Drew101

01-30-2008, 05:44 PM

A grand total of 6 American fighters mate (7 whom spent a fair amont of time n America). Each and everyone inferior to Tszyu (except arguably Pyor).

So did KT. In fact, he spent far more time in the states than many of the fighters on this list. Nice try, kiddo.:D

Oh, and I wasn't aware that Columbia, Argentina, Italy, and Mexico were part of the US. I'll give you Benitez from PR, but KT fought just as often in the states as he did.

China_hand_Joe

01-31-2008, 07:57 AM

Everywhere except Italy and Russia are in America. And being Italian is teh same as being from New York.

Tszyu is from a communist country, he had no chance of being appreciated.

this bloke

01-31-2008, 08:08 AM

hes top5 and imo the front end of the top5

Koa

01-31-2008, 08:11 AM

If Tszyu were American, and his last name was Thomas, he wouldn't even be mentioned. He was a good fighter who dominated during an era where the competition was made up of B, and well past their prime fighters.

Camacho would have boxed his ears off, as would have any number of fighters who moved up and through the devision while he was fighting in it.

Dekkers

01-31-2008, 08:32 AM

Top 3, personally I have him at 1, seen a fair amount of his pro career, very gifted fighter and underrated boxer.

SugarRay

01-31-2008, 09:17 AM

Hearns had very little power as an amateur, he developed it under Manny Steward. Still though, Pryor proved his chin more than once, and Tszyu's foil is a strong swarmer like Pryor.

Tszyu foiled against Phillips because he allowed himself get tagged right hand after right hand. He was too arrogant to defend himself. Tszyu's defence improved after the loss. A strong swarmer maybe not but, a strong swarmer who himself has an excellent chin and who could connect continuously after Tszyu raises his defense... good chances.

The Hatton fight to me was a very winable fight for Tszyu but, due to several factors ruled against Tszyu and especially the low blow took a lot out of him. Even if he took the full 5 mins to recuperate it would still affect the rest of his fight. Hence, the Hatton fight could not be used to discredit Tszyu.

thanosone

01-31-2008, 11:41 AM

Chavez and Pryor destroy him h2h. I really don't know much about the rest of the fighters being mentioned so I cant rank him.

Pimp C

01-31-2008, 12:21 PM

Top 5

PowerPuncher

01-31-2008, 12:22 PM

140 has more great names than people realise so Tyszu is not top3 and isnt top10 either for my money.

Sugar Ray Robinson started at 135 and fought below 140 about 17times and beat some top names at that weight.

Duran/Mosley didnt stop at 140 but at 135 and 147 have shown to be better than Tyszu

Delahoya is better at 140 than Tyszu

Whitaker/Mayweather are also better than Tyszu at the weight despite not being there long they were both in their prime at this weight and clearly better than Tyszu

Then theres the obvious Pryor, Chavez, Henry Armstrong, Barney Ross.

Then the second tier: Cervantes, Loche, Hatton.

TBooze

01-31-2008, 01:24 PM

#4 IMO

10 Floyd Mayweather Jr
9 Ricky Hatton
8 Oscar de la Hoya
7 Meldrick Taylor
6 Julio Cesar Chavez
5 Nicolino Loche
4 Kostya Tszyu
3 Aaron Pryor
2 Wilfred Benitez
1 Antonio Cervantes

Mentions: Pinkey Mitchell, Jackie Berg, Mushy Callahan, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Carlos Ortiz, Duilio Loi, Saoul Mamby, Patrizio Oliva, Roger Mayweather, Buddy McGirt, Pernell Whitaker, Frankie Randall, Juan Martin Coggi, Vince Phillips, Zab Zab Judah and Sharmba Mitchell

teeto

01-31-2008, 01:30 PM

IMO , in a lww atg list , number 3 , I have Pryor 1 and havez 2 . The reason i have Tszyu high is because he had a high level of comp , he had a great win , and he seemed to wanna fight the best guys who were threats . Pryor's comp was not amazing throughout , but he was a h2h great , whih does have a bearing in this . Tszyu could possibly be higher , but the manner of his first loss , which was never avenged means this is the highest i could put him , some may have him lower for the same reason though , couldnt argue with that