Bodybuilding workout for boxing

[younghypnotiq]

is a body building type workout good or bad for boxing?

[Relentless]

are we on ESB???

YES WE ARE.... now dont ask a question you already know the answer to.

[Dennis]

It doesn't really benefit your boxing. Your gloves will feel lighter when you lift them, but you won't be able to keep em up for long.:deal

[Relentless]

no your gloves will not really feel lighter (thats to do with endurance), bodybuilding is all about putting on mass, do you want to move up in weight class and fight people who punch twice as hard as you do?

[Dennis]

no your gloves will not really feel lighter (thats to do with endurance), bodybuilding is all about putting on mass, do you want to move up in weight class and fight people who punch twice as hard as you do?

Yes, your gloves will feel lighter. 20 Oz's are like a feather in Schwarzenegger's hands. His shoulders will get tired faster from keeping his hands up though. And yes, a person half his size might punch harder than him because his body doesn't nessicarily benefit his punching. Case closed.

[younghypnotiq]

so i guess i will stick i with my power workouts. i just wanted to get a little jacked :D

[freesix88]

Indeed just train for stonger muscles not bigger!

These examples are good for some punching power:

Barbell Squats
Chin-ups
Push-ups
Shoulder Front Press
Bicep curls

High reps low weight is the key.

[younghypnotiq]

arent you supposed to do a mix of high rep and low rep?

[sjfou]

Actually keeping reps at 3-5 is the key to strength & 8-10 for growth. High reps, low weight is endurance type training.

If you arent going to fight weight divisions dont matter, go do some curls.

[younghypnotiq]

i say screw weight divisions i wanna be a heavy weight anyway

[Kolya]

i say screw weight divisions i wanna be a heavy weight anyway


:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl Wait till you spar with someone who's just a Light Heavy and how strong they are. Heavyweight is a class you really need to grow into and naturally be comfortable at, otherwise it'll end painfully. You're about 5'9 and 150 or so, right?

[younghypnotiq]

im 6 ft 157

[RDJ]

Indeed just train for stonger muscles not bigger!

These examples are good for some punching power:

Barbell Squats
Chin-ups
Push-ups
Shoulder Front Press
Bicep curls

High reps low weight is the key.

:patsch

[RDJ]

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl Wait till you spar with someone who's just a Light Heavy and how strong they are. Heavyweight is a class you really need to grow into and naturally be comfortable at, otherwise it'll end painfully. You're about 5'9 and 150 or so, right?
I sparred a heavyweight once and kicked his ass :yep

So far for the internet talk. Actually that's not what happened. He held back a lot since I already knew he hit like a mule. He's a big guy, 230 pounds or something. Still every punch that landed on me felt like running into a brick wall. The punches that landed on my guard hurt as well. It wasn't funny. I quit after two rounds because I got a little dizzy.

My "gameplan" was rather stupid too. I wanted to work on my inside game. Not a smart idea, despite him holding back. It didn't really matter though, any gameplan would have failed.

[Relentless]

:patsch

whats wrong with bicep curls huh??

they build the perfect core!

[RDJ]

whats wrong with bicep curls huh??

they build the perfect core!

He failed to mention the bricks, you retard!

[Kolya]

I sparred a heavyweight once and kicked his ass :yep

So far for the internet talk. Actually that's not what happened. He held back a lot since I already knew he hit like a mule. He's a big guy, 230 pounds or something. Still every punch that landed on me felt like running into a brick wall. The punches that landed on my guard hurt as well. It wasn't funny. I quit after two rounds because I got a little dizzy.

My "gameplan" was rather stupid too. I wanted to work on my inside game. Not a smart idea, despite him holding back. It didn't really matter though, any gameplan would have failed.

I spar with a guy who's 5'11 and 215. It's great practice for dealing with guys who are even shorter and lighter than him and try to get inside, and when I actually don't fuck around I tend to handle him fairly easily (the height advantage helps). It also helps he only has 1 fight so far, but he's strong as fuck and he's landed some clean punches on my chin that have made me say "damn, why didn't I play baseball?" :lol:

[Ingar]

The only exercises you need to become stronger, bigger and faster are the several variations of cleans, jerks and snatches supplemented by bench presses, deadlifts and squats.
Doing "bodybuilding"-type workouts won't do you much good in sports that have weight classes, neither is it optimal in power sports that do not have weight classes either.
Multi joint/phase movements such as the clean and jerk result in an tremendous increase in neuromuscular firing rate in terms of amount and speed as well as coordination.
Just make sure you learn how to do the movement first.
I suggest reading some books by E.J. Kreis if you wanna get strong, fast and jacked.

[RDJ]

I spar with a guy who's 5'11 and 215. It's great practice for dealing with guys who are even shorter and lighter than him and try to get inside, and when I actually don't fuck around I tend to handle him fairly easily (the height advantage helps). It also helps he only has 1 fight so far, but he's strong as fuck and he's landed some clean punches on my chin that have made me say "damn, why didn't I play baseball?" :lol:
I'm 5'9 at 150. The guy is sparred is approximately 6'1 at 230. He's also much, much more experienced than me, he had many amateur bouts, it wouldn't even surprise me if he was a pro in the past. It's a fight I cannot win, to be honest. Outweighed by 80 pounds and outclassed by a mile.

It's still fun because he can teach me a lot, but damn that guy is strong. His height does not bother me I spar taller guys than him. His punches are simply frightening. He has fists the size of basketballs! :lol:

[MrSmall]

RDJ, shockingly bicep curls are good for your ELBOWS.
And elbows have an effect in your punch.
So yeah, curls aren't all bad. Can do better, but help slightly!

[Relentless]

curls hurt my elbows.

[RDJ]

RDJ, shockingly bicep curls are good for your ELBOWS.
How are they good for your elbows?

And elbows have an effect in your punch.
They do? More than all the other joints in your body? I think a warming up with rotating movements would have more effect on your joints than bicep curls.

So yeah, curls aren't all bad. Can do better, but help slightly!
They're useless. Completely useless.

[Kolya]

In Mr. Small's defense, certain forms of arm curls stress the brachialis muscle, which is the muscle around the elbow that's responsible for it's contraction (I believe). There are certain versions of curls that stress that more than the bicep itself. Either way, all the weightlifting in the world won't make you a better boxer.

[RDJ]

In Mr. Small's defense, certain forms of arm curls stress the brachialis muscle, which is the muscle around the elbow that's responsible for it's contraction (I believe). There are certain versions of curls that stress that more than the bicep itself. Either way, all the weightlifting in the world won't make you a better boxer.

I'd need to see some source that shows that muscle is so much more important (for punching) than all the other ones, that it deserves its own isolation exercise. And if it was that important in a punch... wouldn't it be stressed by bag work?

[Kolya]

You would imagine. I was always taught that back muscles, if any, have an effect on your power. That and possibly leg strength. I think it really just boils down to natural genetics and technique. Even when I was younger, at like age 13 before I started lifting, I could hit fairly hard because I had the technique and I got a lot of leverage on my punches (I was 6'1 at 13).

[Ingar]

They're useless. Completely useless.

Thats a pretty ignorant statement, I'll whip up one study to prove you wrong:

(1) Faculty for Physical Culture, Belgrade, Yugoslavia
(2) Institute for Medical Research, P.O. Box 721, YU-11001 Belgrade, Yugoslavia

Six subjects performed rapid self-terminated elbow movements under different mechanical conditions prior to, and 5 weeks after an elbow extensor strengthening programme. Despite the large difference in the strengths of elbow flexors and extensors, the pretest did not demonstrate significant differences between the movement time of flexion and extension movements performed under the same mechanical conditions. The results obtained in the posttest demonstrated a decrease in movement time (i.e. an increase in movement speed) in both elbow flexion and extension movements under some mechanical conditions. In addition, flexion movements demonstrated a relative increase in the acceleration time (acceleration time as a proportion of the movement time). It was concluded that the strength of both the agonist and antagonist muscles was important for the performance of rapid movements.


Antagonists, i.e. muscles performing the opposite of a certain action on a certain limb, which means the bicep brachii is and antagonist of the triceps brachii, each play a huge role in both movements.

Then you also have the joint stability, if you're gonna increase strength and size in your triceps, you gotta do the same for the biceps to achieve optimal results as well as avoid injury.

[Relentless]

wont pull ups do the same thing?

[Ingar]

Well, depends on how you do pullups, depends on what you need to work with and how much you want involvement from other muscle groups (on pullups it is in short your back, how much depending on grip, wide, narrow, overhand or underhand).
Nothing but the same thing will do the same thing. ;)

[Nwil]

originally posted by Ingar
Nothing but the same thing will do the same thing.
agreed, but I'm not gonna do bicep curls. They have never helped me in any way and eventually just weigh down my arms. Chin ups are a similar motion, because the biceps contract, except they are a more functional exercise.

[Relentless]

functional?? what is functional? isn't any exercises you do functional??

and what the hell does this mean ingar?

Nothing but the same thing will do the same thing.

[Ingar]

Nothing but the same thing will do the same thing.
agreed, but I'm not gonna do bicep curls. They have never helped me in any way and eventually just weigh down my arms. Chin ups are a similar motion, because the biceps contract, except they are a more functional exercise.

Chins can be better in many ways because of the tremendous amount resistance it produces for your back. But if you have a strong back and weak biceps for example the need changes.. Everything you do should be done according to your needs. That being said, I myself rarely/almost never do bicep curls.
As I said before, the best movements for proportional and optimal strength gains are movements such as the clean and jerk. Exercises such as these require alot of practise though, since they are complicated movements.
Not being able to do these movements can be apt reasons for doing e.g. bicep curls.

No movements are useless, that was my real message.

[MrSmall]

Thanks Kolya, that's exactly what I meant.

RDJ - you misunderstand me, and are too quick to switch on the "anti-weight" answering machine my friend. I didn't mean bicep curls are the be all and end all, but if one does them anyway, they have a SLIGHT benefit on the elbow joint/muscle around the elbow, which plays a role in a punch, however slight, anything is a benefit. I never mentioned boxing skills, I meant stability in a punch.

[Ingar]

and what the hell does this mean ingar?

Exactly what it says.

[Nwil]

originally posted by Ingar
No movements are useless, that was my real message.

Ok, and that's a good message, but efficiency and productivity matter, so I'm not going to do an exercise just because it isn't completely inane and just almost completely.

[Nwil]

originally posted by Relentless
functional?? what is functional? isn't any exercises you do functional??


functional is defined by using the muscles. Pull ups are functional because you use multiple muscles in a realistic way. Isometric machines are not, because they generally have unnatural movements and there is no range of motion.

[Relentless]

functional is defined by using the muscles. Pull ups are functional because you use multiple muscles in a realistic way. Isometric machines are not, because they generally have unnatural movements and there is no range of motion.
isometric??? dont you mean isolation???

isometrics are done without any equipment.

[Nwil]

yeah, my bad....isolation.....either way, the overall concept....

[Ingar]

Ok, and that's a good message, but efficiency and productivity matter, so I'm not going to do an exercise just because it isn't completely inane and just almost completely.

Consider this: you don't know how to do cleans, or you're too bashed up in your legs or back to do it. I mean, there can be countless reasons for a need to do a simple variation of a bicep curl.
You could also have it as an addition simply because your biceps are lagging, i.e. it could be haltering the progress in your back training because of it's role as an important synergist in rowing exercises.
Saying it's completely useless is like saying training biceps is completely useless, which is a very ignorant statement.

[Nwil]

originally posted by Ingar
Consider this: you don't know how to do cleans, or you're too bashed up in your legs or back to do it. I mean, there can be countless reasons for a need to do a simple variation of a bicep curl.
You could also have it as an addition simply because your biceps are lagging, i.e. it could be haltering the progress in your back training because of it's role as an important synergist in rowing exercises.
Saying it's completely useless is like saying training biceps is completely useless, which is a very ignorant statement.

I never said it was completely useless. I agreed that no exercise is completely useless but that bicep curls were pretty close to being.

Now, 'consider this': If I am too injured to do a clean, I'm not gonna substitute in bicep curls.....:yep :yep

and why do curls to get better at rowing, chin ups, etc.? aren't you the one who said "nothing gets the same results like the same thing"?

[kryo]

Indeed just train for stonger muscles not bigger!

These examples are good for some punching power:

Barbell Squats
Chin-ups
Push-ups
Shoulder Front Press
Bicep curls

High reps low weight is the key.

Wrong. This is why I stopped posting on these training sections - MOST are idiots with wrong information.

Bicep curls are not worth doing (unless your unporportional and it's somehow hindering your ability to box..) and high reps low weight just works endurance - you want high weight low rep and lift explosively. High rep and low weight works the same thing as you hitting the heavy bag for an hour.. why do them both when you can just hit the fucking heavy bag.

[Krippy]

Wrong. This is why I stopped posting on these training sections - MOST are idiots with wrong information.

Bicep curls are not worth doing (unless your unporportional and it's somehow hindering your ability to box..) and high reps low weight just works endurance - you want high weight low rep and lift explosively. High rep and low weight works the same thing as you hitting the heavy bag for an hour.. why do them both when you can just hit the fucking heavy bag.

Sorry to go off topic, but how is your boxing progress going?

If I remember right, you are the feller that did some boxing in a school or something? I'm not trying to put you down, I'm genuinely curious on your current status.

[Ingar]

I never said it was completely useless. I agreed that no exercise is completely useless but that bicep curls were pretty close to being.

Now, 'consider this': If I am too injured to do a clean, I'm not gonna substitute in bicep curls.....:yep :yep

Like I said, I was responding to the indirect statement that training biceps were useless. I was also stating that bicep curls (meaning all the different variations) have their place in a training program, just like everything else. It does not have equal importance, e.g. such as the squat or deadlift, but somehow denying that it can be pretty useful in some situations is uncalled for.
It's like saying: "Don't waste your time bending your arm, it's pretty much or completely useless."

Consider this: You incorporate one extra day of weight training because you want added progress, so you decide to have a day inbetween sessions where you work your small muscle groups.
Not a bad idea, because smaller muscle groups recuperate faster, considering that you didn't do lots of curls, skullcrushers or anything the previous day.

There are many ways you could be predisposed to not being able to do cleans. Something you could to is splitting up the movement, first doing deadlifts (or the clean pull), thereby doing reverse curls, front squats and jerks of a rack for example. Splitting it up like this and having progress in each exercise meant for each phase is a neat way for improving your overall strength and potential weight for that exercise.

and why do curls to get better at rowing, chin ups, etc.? aren't you the one who said "nothing gets the same results like the same thing"?

Not quite, I said nothing but the same thing will do the same thing, saying that pullups isn't the exact same thing as a bicep curl.
But now that you mention it, say that you do rowing exercises for each workout, and you want your bicep to improve which thus will improve your back because of a higher potential of resistance usage in rowing exercises. In this case increased bicep strength would add for more resistance for the back, because a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, eh?

[freesix88]

Wrong. This is why I stopped posting on these training sections - MOST are idiots with wrong information.

Bicep curls are not worth doing (unless your unporportional and it's somehow hindering your ability to box..) and high reps low weight just works endurance - you want high weight low rep and lift explosively. High rep and low weight works the same thing as you hitting the heavy bag for an hour.. why do them both when you can just hit the fucking heavy bag.
Okay, you maybe right about that biceps curls thing. I always learned when you train with high weight, low reps you get big useless muscles (and muscles are heavy and most boxers don't want to be heavier). Oh and thanks for calling me an idiot, though guy:smoke

[Ingar]

Okay, you maybe right about that biceps curls thing. I always learned when you train with high weight, low reps you get big useless muscles (and muscles are heavy and most boxers don't want to be heavier). Oh and thanks for calling me an idiot, though guy:smoke

You should walk up to whoever told you that and knee him in the groin.

[freesix88]

You should walk up to whoever told you that and knee him in the groin.
Ok, I will do that.

[IOANNIS]

Biceps helps with hooks and uppercuts!!!!
There are no exercises with weights or not that are not worthy.
BUT if someone wants to be a boxer he should concetrate to
the technique and endurance first not how to become strong.

[Nwil]

ok, firstly, Ingar, keep arguing for your bicep curls and have fun doing them, I really don't care. Secondly, even though 2-5 reps won't build as much mass as 8-12, it still does to a certain degree. I was doing that type of strength training 3 days a week (not consecutive) and after about a month my muscles were feeling heavier. So I only do it once or twice a week now, with my other strength training session being mainly bodyweight stuff, and only do the explosive compound lifts.

[Relentless]

ok, firstly, Ingar, keep arguing for your bicep curls and have fun doing them, I really don't care. Secondly, even though 2-5 reps won't build as much mass as 8-12, it still does to a certain degree. I was doing that type of strength training 3 days a week (not consecutive) and after about a month my muscles were feeling heavier. So I only do it once or twice a week now, with my other strength training session being mainly bodyweight stuff, and only do the explosive compound lifts.

:huh ingar isn't arguing, he just made one point.......

[Nwil]

sideline comments....

[RDJ]

Consider this: you don't know how to do cleans, or you're too bashed up in your legs or back to do it. I mean, there can be countless reasons for a need to do a simple variation of a bicep curl.

I can't think of a single reason for a boxer to isolate the biceps.

You could also have it as an addition simply because your biceps are lagging, i.e. it could be haltering the progress in your back training because of it's role as an important synergist in rowing exercises.

Biceps are lagging behind? How does that work? How do you determine your biceps are lagging behind? :huh

Saying it's completely useless is like saying training biceps is completely useless, which is a very ignorant statement.

Actually it's not like that at all. But thanks anyway.

[Relentless]

Biceps are lagging behind? How does that work? How do you determine your biceps are lagging behind? :huh


good point, how exactly do you determine your biceps are lagging?

I can't think of a single reason for a boxer to isolate the biceps.

maybe to look sexy?

[Rakim]

I can't think of a single reason for a boxer to isolate the biceps.







Don't biceps allow you to lock your hook solid?

[iksrtfo]

The thing about weights is everyone has an opinion on how many reps does what. I used to get muscle magazines and it would feature some known body builder and his workout. One week the guy would say high reps for mass and the next week another known body builder would say low reps for mass. I was always told to work with high reps for defintion. It just comes down to what you were told is what your believe. So calling some-one else and idiot because they read somewhere the opposite of what you read does not make sense to me.

I used to switch high reps for 3 weeks then low reps for 3 weeks but I was not boxing. I don't see any need to lift weights in boxing. IMHO
I myself box just to spar the fighters and want to have a decent looking body and that is why I lift. I may do a am fight but we'll see.

[RDJ]

Don't biceps allow you to lock your hook solid?

Perhaps, along with every other muscle in the arms, back, shoulders, chest, etc. There is no need to isolate the biceps. A punch is not an arm movement, it's a body movement.

[Relentless]

if you want better hooks isn't it better to actually hook?

[RDJ]

if you want better hooks isn't it better to actually hook?

Impossible, that's oldschool. If you want to get more power, lift weights. It's common knowledge.

[yung-gun1]

A way to gain strength and no muscle, is eat just enough to maintain your bodyweight. I was doing it for a while and actually lost about 3 pounds(not much but still) but gained about 25-30 pounds on my bench, 45-55 pounds on my squat and 60 pounds on my deadlift. Didnt gain even 1/4 on any of my muscles.

[Relentless]

Impossible, that's oldschool. If you want to get more power, lift weights. It's common knowledge.

at first people made it as if weights were cancer, now it seems like weights are the only way to be a succesful boxer,

the simpler methods are being ignored, people seem to forget weights are only a supplement to your actual training.

[yung-gun1]

at first people made it as if weights were cancer, now it seems like weights are the only way to be a succesful boxer,

the simpler methods are being ignored, people seem to forget weights are only a supplement to your actual training.

Weights are the same as the old methods.. pushups bodyweight-squats, pullups... theyre are the same as weights, only with weights you add more resistance.

[RDJ]

I only do pushups and such for warming up. After that my real boxing workout begins.

@Relentless:
Agreed.

[sdsfinest22]

You can't spell. Heavyweights are boring.
i say screw weight divisions i wanna be a heavy weight anyway

[Ingar]

ok, firstly, Ingar, keep arguing for your bicep curls and have fun doing them, I really don't care. Secondly, even though 2-5 reps won't build as much mass as 8-12, it still does to a certain degree. I was doing that type of strength training 3 days a week (not consecutive) and after about a month my muscles were feeling heavier. So I only do it once or twice a week now, with my other strength training session being mainly bodyweight stuff, and only do the explosive compound lifts.
Did I argue for bicep curls? Read my posts again, I was merely stating a point in which saying "bicep training" being useless isn't a correct statement.
In my very first post I said compound movements are the way to go, movements such as the clean and jerk, the snatch, squats. Probably movements you mostly don't know how to do, and movements I do nearly every day. So you saying for me to have fun with "my bicep curls" annoys the shit outta me.
When did I say you would not gain weight from doing 2-5 reps?
Hypertrophy (muscular gain) accounts for greater strength, it's one of the main methods for gaining strength when it comes to any sport, and any strength training method.


How fast and strong, pound for pound, do you think this guy is?
Compared to guys who only do pushups and bodyweight squats...

xVB_rQFSsEg

[Pugsley]

Thats a pretty ignorant statement, I'll whip up one study to prove you wrong:

(1) Faculty for Physical Culture, Belgrade, Yugoslavia
(2) Institute for Medical Research, P.O. Box 721, YU-11001 Belgrade, Yugoslavia

Six subjects performed rapid self-terminated elbow movements under different mechanical conditions prior to, and 5 weeks after an elbow extensor strengthening programme. Despite the large difference in the strengths of elbow flexors and extensors, the pretest did not demonstrate significant differences between the movement time of flexion and extension movements performed under the same mechanical conditions. The results obtained in the posttest demonstrated a decrease in movement time (i.e. an increase in movement speed) in both elbow flexion and extension movements under some mechanical conditions. In addition, flexion movements demonstrated a relative increase in the acceleration time (acceleration time as a proportion of the movement time). It was concluded that the strength of both the agonist and antagonist muscles was important for the performance of rapid movements.


Antagonists, i.e. muscles performing the opposite of a certain action on a certain limb, which means the bicep brachii is and antagonist of the triceps brachii, each play a huge role in both movements.

Then you also have the joint stability, if you're gonna increase strength and size in your triceps, you gotta do the same for the biceps to achieve optimal results as well as avoid injury.

Ehhhhh I finally get what this whole topic has been about. The study is mainly trying to illustrate that if you push and gain strength in a certain direction, you should also *pull* in the opposite direction. It's called compensatory muscles, or agonistic versus antagonistic. Since a lot of punching involves 'triggering' fast and hard with the Tricep, without a strong Bicep to retract the outgoing force, you get a slower or a delayed recoil.
That is one of my theories up to date on why so many Boxers in the past screwed up their back, they focused on working the front body too much (Abdominals) and end up neglecting the back, ultimately having very little resistance in the opposite direction. As a commonly known fact back pain is caused by disproportionate abdominal vs lower back strength. Everytime you launch a hook you outstretch the back muscles, then from the moment you jerk back to your neutral defending position, you inadvertantly end up damaging the back without even realising it. This happens because the transition between tensor and extensor is too long and fast for the actual compensatory muscles to handle. Of course that damage can be avoided if you paid equal attention to the back as well as the 'front'.

[freesix88]

Yeah, when you train the abs you also should do the lower back indeed.

@Ingar, you are doing exersizes like squat deadlift cleans jerks everyday? Isn't that too much?

[Relentless]

damn who is that guy, he is only 170lb and he lifts over 200kg!! fuck me tommy!

[Ingar]

You got it Pugsley, great summary.



Yeah, when you train the abs you also should do the lower back indeed.

@Ingar, you are doing exersizes like squat deadlift cleans jerks everyday? Isn't that too much?

Nono, I mean every day I lift, which is 4x a week.
It's not too much, no. I do different variations of the movements each time, rarely if "never" to "failure".

[Nwil]

originally posted by Ingar
Did I argue for bicep curls? Read my posts again, I was merely stating a point in which saying "bicep training" being useless isn't a correct statement.
In my very first post I said compound movements are the way to go, movements such as the clean and jerk, the snatch, squats. Probably movements you mostly don't know how to do, and movements I do nearly every day. So you saying for me to have fun with "my bicep curls" annoys the shit outta me.
When did I say you would not gain weight from doing 2-5 reps?
Hypertrophy (muscular gain) accounts for greater strength, it's one of the main methods for gaining strength when it comes to any sport, and any strength training method.

first of all, you don't know what I do or don't know. If you've read any threads on weight lifting you'll see me advocating those exact exercises. By the way, hypertrophy comes from 8-12 reps, not 2-5:good

[Nwil]

originally posted by Ingar
Nono, I mean every day I lift, which is 4x a week.
It's not too much, no. I do different variations of the movements each time, rarely if "never" to "failure".

you lift 4 consecutive days in a row? Hope you're not doing the same muscle two days in a row.

[skipdog]

Its terrible... End of it. Bicep curls are bad because it greatly increases the chance of injuring or tearing them while fighting.

[Rock0052]

I'd stick to what Ingar's saying, as I posted a pretty similar view in the General Forum a little while back. Do Olympic lifts, chins, and dips. Doing those kinds of exercises makes you much more powerful and (even better) explosive without bulking up or becoming muscle-bound. Considering that fighting's based on weight class, you can see how getting the most bang for your buck is useful.

Examples of Olympic lifts:
Clean and Jerk, Snatch, Power Clean, Hang Snatch, etc.

[skipdog]

I'd stick to what Ingar's saying, as I posted a pretty similar view in the General Forum a little while back. Do Olympic lifts, chins, and dips. Doing those kinds of exercises makes you much more powerful and (even better) explosive without bulking up or becoming muscle-bound. Considering that fighting's based on weight class, you can see how getting the most bang for your buck is useful.

Examples of Olympic lifts:
Clean and Jerk, Snatch, Power Clean, Hang Snatch, etc.

Agreed, some lifts I do very fast with reps of 20-40. Tried heavy again for a few weeks. Felt stronger of course but slower and tighter. Could just be me though. If I can do 12-15 wide grip chins (palms out). Is it time to strap some weight on my waist? I just get mass very easy now.. Feel like it is not worth the strength gains to do low reps. 8-12 if terrible for a fighter for sure though.

[Ingar]

first of all, you don't know what I do or don't know. If you've read any threads on weight lifting you'll see me advocating those exact exercises. By the way, hypertrophy comes from 8-12 reps, not 2-5:good

Yeah, you probably do, so I took a shot at you. ;) Like I said, you annoyed me.
Hypertrophy occurs to certain degrees even with the slightest microtrauma, not saying that 2-5 sets doesn't produce a large amount of it, you think only the neurons are affected just because you do 2-5 sets with 80-90% of 1RM instead of 8-12 with 50-60%? That is not the case.
Simple example: don't powerlifters have large amounts of muscle (or even significant amounts in the lower weight classes)?

[Ingar]

you lift 4 consecutive days in a row? Hope you're not doing the same muscle two days in a row.

That's mostly just a bodybuilding myth (I lift 2 days on, 1 day off, BTW), based on a different method of training, which is split- and failuretraining. You'll see that weightlifters do different variations of the same exercises for several days in a row. The key is mostly not lifting to what is classified as "failure" in the bodybuilding world, which is just pumping out repetitions on a certain exercise till you can't do anymore, for almost every set.

Its terrible... End of it. Bicep curls are bad because it greatly increases the chance of injuring or tearing them while fighting.

Hehehe, what are your sources for this statement?
They're not a very necessary movement in any athletes strength program, but saying that they are "bad for you" is pretty farfetched, huh?

[skipdog]

Go do a bunch of bicep curls, then throw some hard jabs and tell me how you feel. Its a fact bro. Ya biceps helps lock your arm on a left hook or uppercuts but making them large will leave you fucked...

[Ingar]

damn who is that guy, he is only 170lb and he lifts over 200kg!! fuck me tommy!

Pyrros Dimas, three consecutive Olympic Gold medals. He was close to getting four, but he ended up with Bronze instead because of a barely failed attempt. He actually got a 15 min (that's right, 15) minute standing ovation from his home crowd after that. :yep

7sVts_5N52w

[skipdog]

That's mostly just a bodybuilding myth (I lift 2 days on, 1 day off, BTW), based on a different method of training, which is split- and failuretraining. You'll see that weightlifters do different variations of the same exercises for several days in a row. The key is mostly not lifting to what is classified as "failure" in the bodybuilding world, which is just pumping out repetitions on a certain exercise till you can't do anymore, for almost every set.



Hehehe, what are your sources for this statement?
They're not a very necessary movement in any athletes strength program, but saying that they are "bad for you" is pretty farfetched, huh?

What is the source for the picture of a football player in your Avatar when you live in Norway? If thats you and you wear number 92 you would be a D End right? If so you should do a lot of curls along with everything else..

[skipdog]

That's mostly just a bodybuilding myth (I lift 2 days on, 1 day off, BTW), based on a different method of training, which is split- and failuretraining. You'll see that weightlifters do different variations of the same exercises for several days in a row. The key is mostly not lifting to what is classified as "failure" in the bodybuilding world, which is just pumping out repetitions on a certain exercise till you can't do anymore, for almost every set.



Hehehe, what are your sources for this statement?
They're not a very necessary movement in any athletes strength program, but saying that they are "bad for you" is pretty farfetched, huh?

My source is personal experience.. I need to be told or read how things work? I hope thats not you on a Norwegian football team in that avatar of yours.. :rofl

[Ingar]

What is the source for the picture of a football player in your Avatar when you live in Norway? If thats you and you wear number 92 you would be a D End right? If so you should do a lot of curls along with everything else..

We don't really have eligibility issues related to numbers here, I just picked up a jersey when I first started and have been wearing it ever since. I play RB/WR/S, I'm not a lineman-type. ;)

[skipdog]

So you play football in Norway? College? Do they give scholarships? Bodybuilding and bicep curls are cool for football players who need lean mass, as are all the Olympic lifts, and any power move.... Do you box as well?

[Ingar]

Go do a bunch of bicep curls, then throw some hard jabs and tell me how you feel. Its a fact bro. Ya biceps helps lock your arm on a left hook or uppercuts but making them large will leave you fucked...

What is a fact? Your bullshit statements you gathered from "personal experience"?

Like I wrote before in this thread in regards to improved bicep strength being necessary for best results:


(1) Faculty for Physical Culture, Belgrade, Yugoslavia
(2) Institute for Medical Research, P.O. Box 721, YU-11001 Belgrade, Yugoslavia

Six subjects performed rapid self-terminated elbow movements under different mechanical conditions prior to, and 5 weeks after an elbow extensor strengthening programme. Despite the large difference in the strengths of elbow flexors and extensors, the pretest did not demonstrate significant differences between the movement time of flexion and extension movements performed under the same mechanical conditions. The results obtained in the posttest demonstrated a decrease in movement time (i.e. an increase in movement speed) in both elbow flexion and extension movements under some mechanical conditions. In addition, flexion movements demonstrated a relative increase in the acceleration time (acceleration time as a proportion of the movement time). It was concluded that the strength of both the agonist and antagonist muscles was important for the performance of rapid movements.


Antagonists, i.e. muscles performing the opposite of a certain action on a certain limb, which means the bicep brachii is and antagonist of the triceps brachii, each play a huge role in both movements.

Then you also have the joint stability, if you're gonna increase strength and size in your triceps, you gotta do the same for the biceps to achieve optimal results as well as avoid injury.


Get your head out your ass and give me some real arguments, or shut the fuck up.

[skipdog]

What is a fact? Your bullshit statements you gathered from "personal experience"?

Like I wrote before in this thread in regards to improved bicep strength being necessary for best results:


(1) Faculty for Physical Culture, Belgrade, Yugoslavia
(2) Institute for Medical Research, P.O. Box 721, YU-11001 Belgrade, Yugoslavia

Six subjects performed rapid self-terminated elbow movements under different mechanical conditions prior to, and 5 weeks after an elbow extensor strengthening programme. Despite the large difference in the strengths of elbow flexors and extensors, the pretest did not demonstrate significant differences between the movement time of flexion and extension movements performed under the same mechanical conditions. The results obtained in the posttest demonstrated a decrease in movement time (i.e. an increase in movement speed) in both elbow flexion and extension movements under some mechanical conditions. In addition, flexion movements demonstrated a relative increase in the acceleration time (acceleration time as a proportion of the movement time). It was concluded that the strength of both the agonist and antagonist muscles was important for the performance of rapid movements.


Antagonists, i.e. muscles performing the opposite of a certain action on a certain limb, which means the bicep brachii is and antagonist of the triceps brachii, each play a huge role in both movements.

Then you also have the joint stability, if you're gonna increase strength and size in your triceps, you gotta do the same for the biceps to achieve optimal results as well as avoid injury.


Get your head out your ass and give me some real arguments, or shut the fuck up.

So you did not answer a single one of my questions yet kid... No need to get whiny. I will reply to your attempt to dis me.. When you answer my easy questions.. :rofl

[skipdog]

Ingar do you box? Do you play college football in Norway? I was not trying to dis you kid.. But I am going to own you in front of ESB if you do not continue this discussion. Im not into being talked to like that by anyone, especially scrawny Norwegian football players... We can talk rationally and logically. Or you can go fuck the Yugoslavian horse you rode in on..

[Ingar]

Ingar do you box? Do you play college football in Norway? I was not trying to dis you kid.. But I am going to own you in front of ESB if you do not continue this discussion. Im not into being talked to like that by anyone, especially scrawny Norwegian football players... We can talk rationally and logically. Or you can go fuck the Yugoslavian horse you rode in on..

I box, yeah, I play college football in Norway. I also thump your mom on occasions. Anything else you feel you need to know?

You're gonna own me if I don't continue this discussion? :rofl

[skipdog]

Bring my mom into it now? I wish I had a worthwhile reason to visit Norway.. Would not be hard to find you. Cant be to many college football teams in Norway. This started by me saying curls and bodybuilding are bad for a boxer. You keep thinking you know it all because you quoted some Yugo scientist and yes you are scrawny... As well as a Nowegian football player? I think you have been owned way before this started... I played ball in Cali, I box... I lifted more weight in my life then Yugo scientist studying weights have written. You are like a mini me. I tried to be cool, and was willing to discuss the weights with you. Now I am going to break your balls every chance I get... Fuck you.

[Ingar]

Bring my mom into it now? I wish I had a worthwhile reason to visit Norway.. Would not be hard to find you. Cant be to many college football teams in Norway. This started by me saying curls and bodybuilding are bad for a boxer. You keep thinking you know it all because you quoted some Yugo scientist and yes you are scrawny... As well as a Nowegian football player? I think you have been owned way before this started... I played ball in Cali, I box... I lifted more weight in my life then Yugo scientist studying weights have written. You are like a mini me. I tried to be cool, and was willing to discuss the weights with you. Now I am going to break your balls every chance I get... Fuck you.

Hehehe, whatever. You were the one who started dissing, not me. I don't really care. If I hurt your feelings and you feel like you need to get back at me somehow, go for it. Whatever makes you sleep at night. :yep

[Relentless]

skipdog i'm guessing you have not seen any of ingars boxing matches, he was a very good fighter with alot of power and speed, i have no idea why he stopped though i thought for sure he might be able to make it big.

[Relentless]

skipdog i dare you to own ingar in front of esb, i just dare you.

[Nwil]

Relentless[/B]"]skipdog i dare you to own ingar in front of esb, i just dare you.

:lol:lol.

[Relentless]

ingar why did you quit boxing???

btw do you still have that video montage of you doing those crazy plyometrics where you rotate around after a clap push ups or something?

[Ingar]

ingar why did you quit boxing???

btw do you still have that video montage of you doing those crazy plyometrics where you rotate around after a clap push ups or something?

I got fed up with the amateurs and the scoring system. It's just not my style, I hated getting in the ring feeling I need to fight both the system and the fighter on the other side.
That one gets the same score for pricking someone with a jab and knocking someone on the canvas is just surreal to me.
I could go directly to the pros, but I lost my motivation for that too, the heavy weight classes look so boring.
I'm preparing for MMA for the moment, personally I think I would like it more. At least all the boxing training won't have been a waste. :)

Here's the old montage.
I do "crazier" shit now though, 3-clap pushups and such. These only show 2-claps. :D

gJyIOr8t6AY

[skipdog]

Hehehe, whatever. You were the one who started dissing, not me. I don't really care. If I hurt your feelings and you feel like you need to get back at me somehow, go for it. Whatever makes you sleep at night. :yep

Its all good man.. Just did not like the mom comment and would still like an apology for it. You did look pretty impressive in that video. I will give you that... You seem like a hard worker, dedicated, etc. I love to fight and played serious ball when I was younger. We have shit in common. I will apologise for being a dick last night. I should not have laughed about Norwegian football, just shocked me. That being said I am still bigger and stronger than you, possibly faster as well. :rofl Anyway it is a new day. Squash it?

[skipdog]

skipdog i dare you to own ingar in front of esb, i just dare you.

Its all good man. Just got snappy over bicep curls. :lol: . Then dude brings my ma into it. Hard to brush that off you know? Ya Ingar looked good in his training video. Ya I would still fight him though. He may even win.. I don't give a fuck though when it comes to mom. Im over it now. So I will not be trying to own anyone and even will apologise for dissing Norwegian football... :yep

[Ingar]

Hehe, it's all good. No hard feelings at all. ;)

[skipdog]

Hehe, it's all good. No hard feelings at all. ;)

Coolio, Im more experienced in football then boxing.. Lets shoot the shit later on it.. Peace.

[freesix88]

you are really an athletic man, Ingar.

[Nwil]

Ingar, did doing those plyometrics like long jumps, depth jumps, etc. have noticeable effects on your boxing game? Was it better than weights or different? Just wondering b/c I do some plyos but mainly squat thrusts, knee tucks, and claps.

[Lostmykeys]

I got fed up with the amateurs and the scoring system. It's just not my style, I hated getting in the ring feeling I need to fight both the system and the fighter on the other side.
That one gets the same score for pricking someone with a jab and knocking someone on the canvas is just surreal to me.
I could go directly to the pros, but I lost my motivation for that too, the heavy weight classes look so boring.
I'm preparing for MMA for the moment, personally I think I would like it more. At least all the boxing training won't have been a waste. :)

Here's the old montage.
I do "crazier" shit now though, 3-clap pushups and such. These only show 2-claps. :D

gJyIOr8t6AY

Lol at the random fucker playing volleyball.

[Ingar]

Ingar, did doing those plyometrics like long jumps, depth jumps, etc. have noticeable effects on your boxing game? Was it better than weights or different? Just wondering b/c I do some plyos but mainly squat thrusts, knee tucks, and claps.

Well, it's all part of a whole, eh? It doesn't have the exact same effect as anything in particular, but it is closer to weight training and sprinting than anything. It's mostly for improved neural firing speed and/or anaerobic endurance.
As far as my boxing goes, my main attributes was always in my speed and power (which is what plyometrics are for), so I guess you could say it helped since I was doing this type of training long before I started boxing.
Then again, my stamina isn't as good as one should've thought from all the training I do, I burn out quickly. But that's got more to do with my genetics again, as does my main strengths. Lots of fast-twitch (Type IIB) muscle fibers.
People with these types of genetics react better and faster to this type of training, and slow-twitch (Type I) types react better to endurance training. Rocky Marciano comes to mind as the slow-twitch example, Mike Tyson is whom I would regard as the most "fast-twitch" in the boxing world.

[Relentless]

dont substitute one thing for another, everything has its own purpose.

[Ingar]

dont substitute one thing for another, everything has its own purpose.

Exactly. And train according to your own personal needs.

[Pugsley]

I got fed up with the amateurs and the scoring system. It's just not my style, I hated getting in the ring feeling I need to fight both the system and the fighter on the other side.
That one gets the same score for pricking someone with a jab and knocking someone on the canvas is just surreal to me.
I could go directly to the pros, but I lost my motivation for that too, the heavy weight classes look so boring.
I'm preparing for MMA for the moment, personally I think I would like it more. At least all the boxing training won't have been a waste. :)

Here's the old montage.
I do "crazier" shit now though, 3-clap pushups and such. These only show 2-claps. :D


You are right. I couldn't stay in a single discipline for too long when I realised that not only are you fighting the opponent, but you have some twit who's learned to play the system, and eventually you end up fighting *that* too. If you could do what you're really capable of, the guy would be dead. I think every discipline has 'holes', and if you are someone who thinks outside the box, you will feel ever more shafted.

I presume you made this decision based on the last match you had with that annoying Ref? I dont know who the judges are, but sometimes you get some incompetent fuckhead who doesnt know what he is doing, and he assesses things based on his own bad discretion or some illogical criteria... Whatever. I digress.
Anyway good luck with your 'career change', you're young and you can go straight back into all the kicking you already learned in JKD, plus now you can also Box. I look forward to seeing how far you will go. Keep us updated.

[Nwil]

Relentless[/B]"]dont substitute one thing for another, everything has its own purpose.


I wasn't going to substitute anything.

Ingar, thanks for the response. You basically reassured what I had guessed, about neural firing speed.