Spousal Abuse And Boxers...

[Russell]

Honest question...

Why do some of the greatest and or highest paid fighters of all time seem predisposed to abuse their wives and woman in general?

Sugar Ray Robinson, Marvin Hagler, Diego Corrales, Tyson....

What drives men who can turn their aggresion and violence off at the end of every round they fight to beat woman?

[Sonny's jab]

Well, no one ever said boxing developed relationship skills. (And if they did they were bullshitting)

Each individual is different, so I dont think it's right to make a broad generalisation about all wife-beating boxers. Let their shrinks deal with that.

[Russell]

Just seems like an unusually high amount of boxers, especially successful top tier ones, hit their wives.

Doesn't seem like a coincidence.

[Mendoza]

Honest question...

Why do some of the greatest and or highest paid fighters of all time seem predisposed to abuse their wives and woman in general?

Sugar Ray Robinson, Marvin Hagler, Diego Corrales, Tyson....

What drives men who can turn their aggresion and violence off at the end of every round they fight to beat woman?


This is but one of many black eyes for boxing. Guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Jake Lamotta, Jack Johnson, and Mike Tyson ( Never hear of Marvin Hagler or Diego Corrales beating up women ) are not average Joe's hitting much weaker women, they are among the best fighters in the world. This neither ethically honorable or remotely fair. In fact, it is very cowardly if you ask me. Tyson and Johnson in particular were despicable.

I do not know why they do it. The only explanation is they have a some criminal like mentalities in them that make them think beating up women is acceptable.

[SteveO]

Might be the sort of man who is drawn to the sport in the first place.

Boxers as a rule don't fit into traditional societal niches very well.

[janitor]

A couple of factors.

A. People who make good boxers are often not verry nice people by definition.

B. A boxer is perhaps more likley to respond with a punch say in an argument than most people because it is what he trains to do.

The idea of a world class boxer beating up a women is frankly scary. A boxers hands are potentialy a lethal weapon against an ordinary person.

[SteveO]

This is but one of many black eyes for boxing. Guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Jake Lamotta, Jack Johnson, and Mike Tyson ( Never hear of Marvin Hagler or Diego Corrales beating up women ) are not average Joe's hitting much weaker women, they are among the best fighters in the world. This neither ethically honorable or remotely fair. In fact, it is very cowardly if you ask me. Tyson and Johnson in particular were despicable.

I do not know why they do it. The only explanation is they have a some criminal like mentalities in them that make them think beating up women is acceptable.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he had legal trouble for beating his pregnant wife.

[ChrisPontius]

Each individual is different, so I dont think it's right to make a broad generalisation about all wife-beating boxers. Let their shrinks deal with that.

It may be a generalisation, but it's a pretty damn true one. There's a huge amount of boxers that beat up their wives.

Janitor's reasons for it sound right. Also, brain damage causes personality changes and lack of inhibitory factors (compare to being drunk, there is less thinking but more instinctive reaction) which may contribute.

[McGrain]

Corrales was a supposed wife beater, yes.

Boxer's operate at the edge in terms of physical prowess. Generally speaking. This involves massive amounts of testorone in the blood which leads to heightened sense of worth, territoriality and of course, aggression.

In a general sense (and it's not true of everyone) a man with a great deal of testosterone in his blood is less likely to be able to control violent urges than one with none.

[Russell]

Corrales was a supposed wife beater, yes.

Boxer's operate at the edge in terms of physical prowess. Generally speaking. This involves massive amounts of testorone in the blood which leads to heightened sense of worth, territoriality and of course, aggression.

In a general sense (and it's not true of everyone) a man with a great deal of testosterone in his blood is less likely to be able to control violent urges than one with none.

Great post, thanks.

[Sonny's jab]

It may be a generalisation, but it's a pretty damn true one. There's a huge amount of boxers that beat up their wives.

Janitor's reasons for it sound right. Also, brain damage causes personality changes and lack of inhibitory factors (compare to being drunk, there is less thinking but more instinctive reaction) which may contribute.

Firstly, I was refering to any potential "generalizing" we might do as to WHY they do it. Each individual is different. Some might be sadists, some psychpaths, some may be traumatized from childhood, some might be paranoid, jealous or just plain misogynists. One guy might hit his wife and regret it, another might do it and believe he was being lenient and it's "her own fault". So, finding one answer to fit all men who come under "wife beating boxers" is doomed to failure.

Secondly, I disagree with the idea that boxers have had DISPROPORTIONATE numbers of wife beaters in their ranks. I think woman abuse has been just as widespread among non-boxers. I certainly suspect that slapping women was considered more "normal" in the 40s and 50s, and not as absolutely unaccaptable as we rightly consider it now. Black-and-white movies often portray a hero "heroically" giving the damsel a slap, something that you wouldn't see a movie hero do now, thank god.

But IF it is true that boxers as a group are more prone to wife-beating, I would argue that it would be due to the fact that boxers often come from "rough backgrounds", dysfunctional families, anti-social upbringings, a life of violent or abusive beginnings. Yes, poor kids with a lot of rage often get into boxing. And their rage is often due to things like being brought up around abuse. Boxing doesn't mend all these things.

I dont believe boxing exasperates these tendencies at all (though your point on brain damage is valid), and in fact boxing probably generally lessens tendencies to violence out of the ring, in troubled adolescents at least.
But boxing is no CURE for anti-social tendencies to abuse, either.

That's just my take. (I stress that I am no expert at all on these sociological and psychological issues)

[Russell]

Didn't Ike have some kind of brain damage that made him batshit crazy?

[Dempsey1238]

Its not just boxers, the risk of abuse is pretty common OVERALL. Joe no body next door is perhaps beating his wife and kids. Hell my dad was not a boxer, and he slap my mother around.

It goes beyond boxing imo. Because Ty Cobb beat his wife, and so did Lamotta?? Its more common than one would think. So dont put the blame on boxing. But on the PERSON. There has been some non women hitting boxers I belive.

Lennex Lewis?? perhaps? Fullmer and Carman? Gene Tunney?

Maybe. I not sure on it. But dont go blaming boxing.

[ChrisPontius]

Didn't Ike have some kind of brain damage that made him batshit crazy?

It is not unlikely that the Tua fight left him with some permanent damage, personality change and the start of him hearing demons.... however, i do think the seed has always been there, although that is speculation on my part.

[ChrisPontius]

Firstly, I was refering to any potential "generalizing" we might do as to WHY they do it. Each individual is different. Some might be sadists, some psychpaths, some may be traumatized from childhood, some might be paranoid, jealous or just plain misogynists. One guy might hit his wife and regret it, another might do it and believe he was being lenient and it's "her own fault". So, finding one answer to fit all men who come under "wife beating boxers" is doomed to failure.

Secondly, I disagree with the idea that boxers have had DISPROPORTIONATE numbers of wife beaters in their ranks. I think woman abuse has been just as widespread among non-boxers. I certainly suspect that slapping women was considered more "normal" in the 40s and 50s, and not as absolutely unaccaptable as we rightly consider it now. Black-and-white movies often portray a hero "heroically" giving the damsel a slap, something that you wouldn't see a movie hero do now, thank god.

But IF it is true that boxers as a group are more prone to wife-beating, I would argue that it would be due to the fact that boxers often come from "rough backgrounds", dysfunctional families, anti-social upbringings, a life of violent or abusive beginnings. Yes, poor kids with a lot of rage often get into boxing. And their rage is often due to things like being brought up around abuse. Boxing doesn't mend all these things.

I dont believe boxing exasperates these tendencies at all (though your point on brain damage is valid), and in fact boxing probably generally lessens tendencies to violence out of the ring, in troubled adolescents at least.
But boxing is no CURE for anti-social tendencies to abuse, either.

That's just my take. (I stress that I am no expert at all on these sociological and psychological issues)

Well i don't have exact numbers either, but i do find it remarkable that on almost every single boxer, there is a wife beating story. We have one famous boxer in Holland (Regilio Tuur) and he's not known for achieving so much in the ring, but for beating up his wife multiple times. And if in Robinsons day beating the living crap out of your pregant wife, then why is it mentioned so often? Surely they wouldn't bother to mention something that is the most normal thing in the world?

[Sonny's jab]

Well i don't have exact numbers either, but i do find it remarkable that on almost every single boxer, there is a wife beating story.

Almost every single boxer ??
Are you serious ?


We have one famous boxer in Holland (Regilio Tuur) and he's not known for achieving so much in the ring, but for beating up his wife multiple times.

I remember him, he beat the much hyped American Kelcie Banks in the 1988 Olympics.


And if in Robinsons day beating the living crap out of your pregant wife, then why is it mentioned so often? Surely they wouldn't bother to mention something that is the most normal thing in the world?

I never said that was normal, or considered normal. I certainly never implied that beating a pregnant woman was EVER considered "the most normal thing in the world".
I said slapping a female was "more normal" than now, not as ABSOLUTELY unacceptable as is now, and I daresay violent wife beating was more common.
Men used to get away with beating their wives in those days. Women effectively had less rights in those days. The police didn't interfere in those days, and society was a bit less caring about such abuse within the family.

I dont know that anyone really did mention Sugar Ray's wife beatings at the time, and what he did was NEVER considered even remotely "normal".
Obviously another reason that Robinson's biographers have mentioned it a bit, and that we find it even more shocking, is because Sugar Ray was a man with lethal fists.

[fists of fury]

B. A boxer is perhaps more likley to respond with a punch say in an argument than most people because it is what he trains to do.


This is what I think, personally. Boxers are a lot less desensitized to hitting people than other sportsmen or women. It's almost like a programmed reaction when someone is giving you grief. They also seem to get into a lot of fights with other men too.

PS-That's in no way a defence for hitting women, just an explanation for how I see things.

[Sonny's jab]

I think it's bullshit.

The average non-boxing man is just as likely to hit a woman or get into fights with other men.

Boxers are trained to fight in the ring, a boxer's training isn't going to make him more likely to lash out outside the ring. That's the kind of BULLSHIT that damages the sport.

Striking a person out of anger or malice is a completely different thing to punching in the ring for 99.9% of boxers.

Some men beat their wives, some people are just lowlife, they are mentally weak, they have anti-social tendencies. It's nothing peculiar to boxers.

I still cant believe the claim that wife-beating allegations surround "almost every single boxer" !

[Sonny's jab]

Also, remember that we are all BOXING FANS, with a deep knowledge of historical boxers and their life stories.
If you all dedicated just as much time to reading about as many movie stars or popular musicians you might be scratching your heads wondering why THEY are "all wife beaters" too !

And like Dempsey1238 said, the guy next door might hit his wife and it wont make news.

[Sonny's jab]

Also, remember it is easy to make "allegations" about a boxer being violent, and THAT WILL MAKE HEADLINES.

Cases like Sugar Ray and LaMotta are firmly established as bad cases of very violent abuse. Riddick Bowe too. Mike Dokes almost killed a woman, the sick fuck.

But in other cases, a retired boxer for example, going through a break up with his wife, lots of shouting and smashing things, the woman might get scared, understandably. If the press get hold of that - an ordinary unfortunate human situation - it becomes "allegations of abuse".

[ChrisPontius]

Almost every single boxer ??
Are you serious ?

Alright, that was exaggarated, but you have to admit that there's a hell of a lot of wife abusers among top boxers: Robinson, Louis, Ali, Tyson, Monzon, Hagler, Ibeaubuchi, Bowe, etc.

If they hadn't gotten famous, maybe they would've still done the same and no one would know about it, but fact remains many of the top boxers did it.


I remember him, he beat the much hyped American Kelcie Banks in the 1988 Olympics.

Do you think Tuur was any good? I've actually never seen any of his fights.

[fists of fury]

Do you think Tuur was any good? I've actually never seen any of his fights.

He wasn't half bad. Pleasing style. :good

[Sonny Carson]

It hasn't been mentioned yet but Sugar Ray Leonard beat the living shit out of his first wife.

[Thread Stealer]

I was reading this at work earlier - can anyone tell me the craic with Hagler? All I can vaguely remember about Mrs Marvellous One is some 'little faggot' comments re SRL.

Did Hagler really knock his missus about? Any info appreciated.

a little while after the leonard fight, he got into an argument with his wife and she filed a restraining order when he threw something at her car.

there were no reports of hagler hitting her.

leonard, on the other hand, abused alcohol, cocaine, and his wife, and talked about in a press conference in 1991

[SteveO]

It hasn't been mentioned yet but Sugar Ray Leonard beat the living shit out of his first wife.

I read about that in class. I guess he had some drug problems too.

[Langford]

I used to think that there was a huge percentage of fighters who were
A. More prone to domestic violence towards woman
B. Seemed to be more prone to depression and thoughts of suicide.
C. Had substance abuse problems after they had peaked career wise and were trying to deal with having a "normal" life or being out of the lime light.

The older I get, the more it seems like this is true for all walks of life, however.

Still, I don't think as a rule boxing attracts people who are not prone to violence.

I have met some very nice people who were boxers.

[sthomas]

I do not have statistics in front of me but I assume the % of boxers contributing to domestic violence is considerably higher than the % of the general population. An occupation where a man is legally entitled to inflict the amount of pain a boxer does, is often the channeled extreme agression of his personality. Look at the lives of Tyson, Liston, and many others. Before boxing, they were breaking the law and hurting people. Boxing allowed them a legal route to channel their actions and gain fame and fortune. Many other boxers, who have not strayed from the law, still have that agressive trait, and sometimes it gets the best of them and unfortunately their loved ones. I think it's true to a degree in most agressive sports, that the % of abuse is higher than that of say the % of accountants who abuse.

Does anyone have stats showing a correlation of abuse and the occupation: Drs., Lawyers, Boxers, Policemen, etc....

[Russell]

No chance any other occupation compares to boxers in that regard, I'm willing to bet.

[AnthonyJ74]

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that top level boxers - champions - have this sense of being bigger and badder than any law or constraint. When you are a champion, you are THE MAN! You are the Big Guy so to speak. A guy like that who has a wife or a girlfriend, it's almost like they have a trophy, a prize, and they own that trophy or prize......

[Russell]

So Hagler didn't beat his wife, just threw something at him?

But the "hero" of that situation, Leonard, kicked the living shit out of his wife?

[fists of fury]

It must also be noted that Joe Louis once slapped and began to choke Lena Horne (his mistress at the time) during a vicious argument. Her sister had to threaten to call the cops to get him to stop.

Anyway, I'm getting a little saddened/disturbed at this thread and will leave it be from now on.

[JohnThomas1]

No chance any other occupation compares to boxers in that regard, I'm willing to bet.

Out here in Australia i reckon Jockey's would run them close. Women bashing arrogant little cunts, the majority. Certainly the many i have known. Little mans sydrome. I had the good fortume to be close enough to hear one say some unbelievably disgusting and threatening things to a mates wife (She spurned his nasty advances very staightfowardly) while she was at the local on her own one night :D

[mcvey]

Hitting women with your fist is unacceptable ,why spoil your property,and devalue it?Athick leather belt or a bamboo cane is the tool ,and quite stimulating for you too,especially when they beg.

[DamonD]

Thanks for that, Sugar Ray.

[fists of fury]

I had the good fortume to be close enough to hear one say some unbelievably disgusting and threatening things to a mates wife (She spurned his nasty advances very staightfowardly) while she was at the local on her own one night :D

"A mate's wife."
"At the local on her own one night."

:think

You wouldn't happen to be that jockey would you? :D

[bill poster]

I wouldnt say its down to being black, white or any other colour either, just in case anyone is thinking it. Most top boxers are black so it doesnt wash statistically. Top white boxers have been accused of abuse too

[JohnThomas1]

"A mate's wife."
"At the local on her own one night."

:think

You wouldn't happen to be that jockey would you? :D

Nah, i was the wifes friend and happened to hate the asshole :lol:

[bill poster]

John Thomas your avatar is just fantastic

[JohnThomas1]

John Thomas your avatar is just fantastic

Thanks Bill, yours too has the tongue catching carpet pile!

[sthomas]

Out here in Australia i reckon Jockey's would run them close. Women bashing arrogant little cunts, the majority. Certainly the many i have known. Little mans sydrome. I had the good fortume to be close enough to hear one say some unbelievably disgusting and threatening things to a mates wife (She spurned his nasty advances very staightfowardly) while she was at the local on her own one night :D


Makes sense. Maybe these abusive jockeys should get in the ring with Laila Ali. I might pay for that spectacle.

[JohnThomas1]

Makes sense. Maybe these abusive jockeys should get in the ring with Laila Ali. I might pay for that spectacle.

Excellent idea!

:D

[JohnThomas1]

Seriously tho, they have terrible reputations. A mates missus knew a girl well who married one, sometimes had bruises, sometimes cigarette burns to the arm etc. Of course no doubt there are many fine gentleman among them, but they do have a high ratio of pigs too.