Duran in today's welterweight scene?

[SteveO]

How would he do against:

Floyd
Cotto
Williams
Mosley
Margarito
Judah
Cintron
Clottey

and whoever else?

[brooklyn1550]

He beats them all. I would be extremely confident picking him over Floyd, Cotto, Williams, Mosley, and Margarito.

[Keihule]

Hands of Stone would be knocking alot of people out, thats for sure.

[brownpimp88]

not fair to tell yet, paul williams might do it, i mean who knows in the next 2-3 years he might turn out to be a really good fighter. Was roberto duran an atg back in 1973, fuck no he wasnt, give paul williams time to grow as a fighter.

[sweet_scientist]

not fair to tell yet, paul williams might do it, i mean who knows in the next 2-3 years he might turn out to be a really good fighter. Was roberto duran an atg back in 1973, fuck no he wasnt, give paul williams time to grow as a fighter.
If he's losing 5 or 6 rounds to Margarito he's not beating Roberto Duran. Paul might go on to improve, but as of right now, Duran of Montreal (and even of New Orleans) would wax him.

Oh and to answer the thread question, Duran easily beats any welterweight today.

[MrSmall]

He'd decimate them all.
Floyd would be a good fight, but he'd win, probably by KO.

The guys today are good, but not on the level of some of the old timer greats, such as Duran.

[Senya13]

He'll lose half the fights. Duran at welterweight was very far from unbeatable, including Duran the night he won over Leonard.

[Stonehands89]

He'll lose half the fights. Duran at welterweight was very far from unbeatable, including Duran the night he won over Leonard.
Give us a break.

[Doppleganger]

H'd beat them all, IMO, although PBF does have the style to keep him at bay and frustrate him. Of all the fights, this is the one that could go either way.

[Lobotomy]

The Duran of Montreal, who also handled Palomino easily, charged through Nsubuga's crisp uppercuts, dominated rugged, defensively minded southpaw Adolfo Viruet, shut out the then streaking and peaking, super experienced, 26 year old Jimmy Heair (who had only been stopped once in 90 fights, on a cut in Mexico) and dropped Monroe Brooks for the count with a single left hook to the body (while Brooks was in his prime), would run roughshod over today's welterweights.

Duran/Nsubuga is an overlooked achievement in Roberto's resume. Stonehands versus Stoneface. Nsubuga had a very distinguished amateur career. Duran embarrassed himself by being out of shape against Zeferino Gonzalez, overweight at 149 pounds for the main event of a telecast card in which the preliminary bout featured Ray Leonard's stunning annihilation of Andy Price. For his next appearance with Nsubuga, he vowed to show that he was absolutely a match for Ray. Nsubuga was very fast and very tough. Driven into the corners repeatedly by Duran's relentless rushes, Joseph kept bouncing back to rip his tremendous uppercuts with both hands. Roberto actually appeared to enjoy getting hit, and came on even stronger with that wolfish leer across his face. (He looked an awful lot like Pryor in this one.) It became obvious early that it was just a matter of time before Nsubuga crumbled, but not before the Ugandan impressed with his feisty, spirited resistance.

Only world title challengers and champions ever defeated Monroe Brooks. Nobody other than Duran was ever able to get a referee to count to ten over his stricken form. Many wondered if Roberto would be able to carry his power up to a higher weight class, and his bodyshot knockout of Brooks answered the question definitively.

As a welterweight in prime condition, Duran may have been invincible. (I do not believe Hearns would have beaten the Montreal Duran at WW, and thought he needed to challenge Tommy for a unification bout to stay properly motivated and focused. Duran would have been very mindful of the power Hearns displayed against Cuevas. He would have applied similar caution and concentration in dealing with Hearns to that which SRL did utilize in 1981. But I feel very strongly that Duran should have been the one to unify the WW titles in late 1980 or early 1981. Based upon what a one shouldered Randy Shields had to say about taking Hearns into deep water at the time, Tommy probably would have missed early and crumbled late in facing a motivated and alert Duran.)

[Sardu]

It is hard for me to objective here cause Duran was favorite fighter. If Duran chooses to he beats them all. If he slacks off someone like Williams mightbe able to beat him by decision. Cotto and Margarito would be taylor made cause they like to stay in the pocket and brawl. That would be suicide against Duran. PBF obviously would be the most difficult. I think once he engaged Duran he would realize this isno Ricky Hatton and he would just be defensive and try to survive. Duran by UD against PBF. Williams, with his huge wingspan and Hearns-like qualities could possibly be a problem for Cholo.

[RoccoMarciano]

I'd rather see him at his natural weight.

[PowerPuncher]

Duran is a great great fighter but todays 147lbers are truly excellent fighters and the smaller Duran would surely pick up losses. Here are his chances against todays fighters IMO:

Mayweather - 40% chance. Mayweather is a slight favourate with a better defense, forcing errors, staying out of range and being near impossible to lay a clean glove on. Duran also had problems when a man stayed out of range and proved too slippy with too much speed. Mayweather embodies all of this. However Duran himself is excellent foil for Mayweather with his skillfull workrate.

MAYWEATHER WINS AN SD AND THE FANS ARE SPLIT ON THE DECISION SOME CALLING ROBBERY. Mayweather lands the much cleaner punches. Duran throws much punches however he rarely lands clean and Mayweather is landing the flusher more showy shots. Duran comments that Mayweather strength and power suprised him. Both fighters claim they won

Cotto - 60% Duran is the superior boxer and technician but Cotto has the skills, power, arsenal to make this very close

Old Mosley - 60% Duran is superior but Mosleys speed could cause problems

Williams - 40% Williams is a freak and I dont like Durans chances here because of the style and reach/height advantage

Margarito - 70% Duran would be fave to outbox this huge Welter but Margarito is HUGE at the weight and his size and workrate could prove no easy task for Duran

Cintron - 80% Cintron could do to Duran what Hearns did because he is a brutal puncher but Duran should be too good for him

I doubt Duran stops any of the above except perhaps Cintron

[brownpimp88]

If he's losing 5 or 6 rounds to Margarito he's not beating Roberto Duran. Paul might go on to improve, but as of right now, Duran of Montreal (and even of New Orleans) would wax him.

Oh and to answer the thread question, Duran easily beats any welterweight today.
i had that fight like 9-3 for williams a clear win IMO. Hes still green anyways, im sure after he beats quintana and cotto, hell be top 5 p4p and will get more respect. Im sure after duran lost to de jesus in 72, everyone was saying canzoneri, benny leonard and joe gans would school this kid, its the same shit.

[PowerPuncher]

If he's losing 5 or 6 rounds to Margarito he's not beating Roberto Duran. Paul might go on to improve, but as of right now, Duran of Montreal (and even of New Orleans) would wax him.

Oh and to answer the thread question, Duran easily beats any welterweight today.

I had it wider than 7-5, more like 9-3.

Margarito is 5-11 and weighs 160 ripped on fight night. Duran is 5-7 and would weigh a bit around 150 on fight night. Margarito is much more significantly imposing than Duran and has decent level skills of his own despite being no Duran.

Anyway I could turn it round and say no one who loses to Kirkland Laing would beat Williams.

[warchild]

The best welterweight version of Duran probably beats them all. Except for Mayweather and Cotto, the current crop of welterweights is quite ordinary. Duran's speed and aggresiveness foil all of Mayweather's efforts to carry-out a tactical fight, and he wins a decision as a roughed-up Mayweather barely makes it to the final bell. The proud Cotto is pretty competitive with Duran early on, but beaten nearly unrecognizable, falls hard late in the fight and is never the same fighter again. "El Cholo" ragdoll's the rest of them.

[Pat_Lowe]

I had it wider than 7-5, more like 9-3.

Margarito is 5-11 and weighs 160 ripped on fight night. Duran is 5-7 and would weigh a bit around 150 on fight night. Margarito is much more significantly imposing than Duran and has decent level skills of his own despite being no Duran.

Anyway I could turn it round and say no one who loses to Kirkland Laing would beat Williams.

Duran struggled with boxers and movers in his welterweight and above days. Someone that brings the fight to him like Margarito or Williams would get torn apart. Its why he was able to beat Moore and Barkley (2 big imposing fighters). And for the record Margarito is shit, his punches are wide and telegraphed and he is sooo open.

[sweet_scientist]

i had that fight like 9-3 for williams a clear win IMO. Hes still green anyways, im sure after he beats quintana and cotto, hell be top 5 p4p and will get more respect. Im sure after duran lost to de jesus in 72, everyone was saying canzoneri, benny leonard and joe gans would school this kid, its the same shit.

9-3 is an undefendable score. Williams won no more than 8 rounds even if you're a relative of his.

And did you type this after you saw the Quintana fight? I can't believe you would have done that. I haven't seen the fight, so maybe Paul edged it, I don't know, but what I do know is that Paul at his current level would get drilled by Duran.

And dare I say the obvious, Carlos Quintana is no Esteban DeJesus and I don't think Paul is that green.

[sweet_scientist]

I had it wider than 7-5, more like 9-3.

Margarito is 5-11 and weighs 160 ripped on fight night. Duran is 5-7 and would weigh a bit around 150 on fight night. Margarito is much more significantly imposing than Duran and has decent level skills of his own despite being no Duran.

Anyway I could turn it round and say no one who loses to Kirkland Laing would beat Williams.
Can I see your scorecard for that 9-3? That's way too wide.

Duran's skills are in a different stratosphere from Margarito's. He isn't as big or as strong, but he would be on the inside and working Paul over like he wouldn't believe. He ain't going to be kept at bay with his slappy bullshit of a jab and 1-2's. Duran would walk right through that. If Margarito wasn't such a clutz, he'd have done it too.

What relevance does the Kirkland Laing fight have when discussing a 1979-80 Duran (i.e. one relatively near his prime)?

[PowerPuncher]

Can I see your scorecard for that 9-3? That's way too wide.

Duran's skills are in a different stratosphere from Margarito's. He isn't as big or as strong, but he would be on the inside and working Paul over like he wouldn't believe. He ain't going to be kept at bay with his slappy bullshit of a jab and 1-2's. Duran would walk right through that. If Margarito wasn't such a clutz, he'd have done it too.

What relevance does the Kirkland Laing fight have when discussing a 1979-80 Duran (i.e. one relatively near his prime)?

Well Duran was only 2years older against Benitez and Laing. Was he prime? No but he wasnt too far removed from it either so these 'movers' are a clear stylistic problem for Duran. Duran seems to get the most passes for his losses.

As for the scorecard I never keep them as I do them on scraps of paper but I did have it 9-3 round by round if memory serves me correct. If you search my old messages I put my scorecard up after the fight but I personally cant be bothered with that. Not really worth the bother now Williams has lost to Quintana but who knows he may come back to make some waves

[radianttwilight]

Duran brutalizes them all, especially Williams and Cotto.

Williams has ZERO power at 147. You need power to even think about beating Duran in his prime. If Duran can walk right through all of your best shots, you're fucked.

Cotto would be a good matchup, but he's outclassed here. His defence isn't as good, his power isn't as good (punch for punch), and his chin isn't as good. He's competitive early, but he gets brutally stopped around 6-8. The only thing he has on Duran is size, but he doesn't have any of the advantages that usually come with size (power and durability).

[rodney]

not fair to tell yet, paul williams might do it, i mean who knows in the next 2-3 years he might turn out to be a really good fighter. Was roberto duran an atg back in 1973, fuck no he wasnt, give paul williams time to grow as a fighter.

You mean that Club Fighter who got his ass kicked by Carlos Quintana could of beat Hands of Stone.
Fuck --- you really know your boxing.

[brownpimp88]

You mean that Club Fighter who got his ass kicked by Carlos Quintana could of beat Hands of Stone.
Fuck --- you really know your boxing.
ok he lost, but remember duran lost to esteban de jesus when esteban was a nobody, i guarantee duran got bashed for it. De jesus didnt become a top fighter till he beat duran and then won a title. When they actually met, who was esteban really, just a prospect.

[sweet_scientist]

ok he lost, but remember duran lost to esteban de jesus when esteban was a nobody, i guarantee duran got bashed for it. De jesus didnt become a top fighter till he beat duran and then won a title. When they actually met, who was esteban really, just a prospect.
Main differences of course being that Duran was 21 at the time and Paul Williams is 26 right now. He may go on to improve but I doubt he will to any great extent. As soon as he moves up in weight - which will probably be soon - and loses his height, reach advantages he will be exposed again.

Oh and another difference is that DeJesus went on to show that he was arguably a great fighter. I struggle to see Carlos going on to show that he is a good fighter.

[brownpimp88]

Main differences of course being that Duran was 21 at the time and Paul Williams is 26 right now. He may go on to improve but I doubt he will to any great extent. As soon as he moves up in weight - which will probably be soon - and loses his height, reach advantages he will be exposed again.

Oh and another difference is that DeJesus went on to show that he was arguably a great fighter. I struggle to see Carlos going on to show that he is a good fighter.
is there any fighter from 135-147 range in todays era that you think will become greater than esteban de jesus?

You havent responded to my top 50 p4p list yet?

[sweet_scientist]

is there any fighter from 135-147 range in todays era that you think will become greater than esteban de jesus?

You havent responded to my top 50 p4p list yet?
Floyd Mayweather most likely. Not sure about anyone else. I'm not big on Cotto (and I'm one who thought he beat Shane) but he has a way to go yet. Hatton doesn't really impress me. Maybe some youngster that I'm overlooking will come on but right now I don't see that much talent around really.

Will get to commentating on your p4p list :good

[brooklyn1550]

Floyd Mayweather most likely. Not sure about anyone else. I'm not big on Cotto (and I'm one who thought he beat Shane) but he has a way to go yet. Hatton doesn't really impress me. Maybe some youngster that I'm overlooking will come on but right now I don't see that much talent around really.


What do you think about Juan Diaz?

[sweet_scientist]

What do you think about Juan Diaz?

Haven't seen much of him to tell you the truth so I can't give you a solid opinion. He's fought a lot of guys on the way out and needs to fight someone relevant today for me to stand up and take serious notice.

[sweet_scientist]

:huh

Carlos IS a good fighter, he isn't a Floyd Mayweather, Leonard, Duran ect but he is good.

He is ok, but I bet if he faces someone as average as Zab Judah he'll get ko'ed. He has good skills but I question his ability to take punishment.

[sweet_scientist]

Fair enough. Just a bad style matchup for Quintana right there IMO. He does have good skills, but I think it is fair to say that he will do very well against people that cannot really hurt him. Collazo, Clottey ect.

Pretty much how I see it too. I think Margarito, Cintron, Judah would ice him, and the likes of Baldomir would get outboxed by him. Fights against Clottey and Collazo are winnable, but no sure things.

[brooklyn1550]

Pretty much how I see it too. I think Margarito, Cintron, Judah would ice him, and the likes of Baldomir would get outboxed by him. Fights against Clottey and Collazo are winnable, but no sure things.

I can't see Margarito or Cintron beating Quintana actually.

[Irish Steel]

I wish I could see Duran VS Floyd. Duran tko 10

[rendog67]

i would pick duran over them all but i do believe floyd might up his game against the great one

[cuchulain]

How would he do against:

Floyd
Cotto
Williams
Mosley
Margarito
Judah
Cintron
Clottey

and whoever else?

While not the best ever welterwt, he takes all of your list. Only Mayweather and Mosley give him serious trouble, but they ultimately lose as well.

[sweet_scientist]

I can't see Margarito or Cintron beating Quintana actually.

Interesting, why is that? They certainly hit hard enough to take him out. You think Quintana will be able to avoid them for 12 rounds?

Margarito, as slow as he is, will walk through pretty much everything Quintana throws I feel, and Quintana's movement is not good enough to avoid getting caught in the corners and punished at some point. I'd take Margarito by Ko in the last three rounds in that one.

Cintron might be made to look stupid all night, but I think he'll find the mark at some stage and end procedures. If Quintana was getting wobbled by the crap Williams was throwing I think Cintron will finish him once he gets him hurt.

Could be wrong though.

[Holmes' Jab]

Duran beats them all, most without a great deal of bother. Though he'd have tricky assignments against Mayweather and Mosley. To a lesser extent Cotto.