The MMA History Resources Thread

[cross_trainer]

Much more to come shortly...





Ancient

Pankration: Interpreting the Art
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Pankration Project (Reconstruction)
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Pankration: What It Was
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Dioxippus
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Arricheon
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Greek Combat Sports
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Submission Fighting and the Rules of Ancient Greek Wrestling
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Sons of Apollo: Ancient Greek Boxing
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Ancient Greek Boxing
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Greek Wrestling
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Famous Greek Athletes
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Pankration Illustrations
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Historical Union of Pankration
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More Ancient Greek Wrestlers, Boxers, Pankratists
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1100-1718

Petter's Worstel-Konst
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Cornish Wrestling
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Glima
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Purring
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Talhoffer's Fechtbuch
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Fiore Dei Liberi's Fechtbuch
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1718-1822

American "Rough and Tumble"
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Captain John Godfrey's Treatise Upon the Useful Science of Defence, 1747
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Fewtrell's Science of Manual Defence, 1790[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Extracts From Mendoza's Treatise on Boxing, 1791
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Ken Pfrenger's Google Video Lecture on Mendozan Pugilism
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Sir Thomas Parkyns' Close-Hugg Wrestler, 1713[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

IBHOF "Pioneer" Section
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Cyber Boxing Zone--Bareknuckle Champions of England
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Cyber Boxing Zone--Bareknuckle Champions of America
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Traditional Boxing Thread @ Martial Arts Planet
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Martial Arts to 1699
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1822-1860

Layton's Norfolk Wrestling, 1830's
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Savate
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Donald Walker's Wrestling, 1840
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[cross_trainer]

Great work, any chance of getting that "much more to come"?

Yep...a brief vacation sidetracked me. :good

[younghypnotiq]

this is great. im a big fan of oldschool stuff lke john sullivan, and the marquees of queensbury, and gama, and pankration. etc

[cross_trainer]

1860-1914

More Savate
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Price's Science of Self Defence, 1867
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Sorakichi Matsuda
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Kentsu Yabu
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Leonard vs. Higashi
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Bartitsu
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John McMahon
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Comparison of Combatives
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A Plea for Style in Boxing
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A Bout With Gloves
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Rules for Scientific Boxing
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Frank Gotch
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Punching Bags of Pugilism
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Canadian Wrestling
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Savate
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The Terrible Turk
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Yukio Tani
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Gama
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John L. Sullivan
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1918-1945

Tamura vs. Pojello (wrestler vs. boxer), 1943
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Carlos Gracie
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[younghypnotiq]

do you guys think gama could beat current greats?

[cross_trainer]

do you guys think gama could beat current greats?

Gama? Doubtful. While he had magnificent takedowns, he had no ground game and no striking game. Now, in a street fight on concrete, it might be a different story--those throws would be vastly more damaging under such circumstances.

[younghypnotiq]

oo. sorry i wasnt familiar with the rules. i thought wrestleing back then was the equivilant of MMA. Bareknuckle was closer to MMA right? also what do you think about sullivan vs MMA fighters nowadays? and my final question was i was reading some thing on Boxing vs Wrestling and they said wrestling in the USA in the early 1900s was different then what it is today? was therea big difference or no?

[cross_trainer]

oo. sorry i wasnt familiar with the rules. i thought wrestleing back then was the equivilant of MMA. Bareknuckle was closer to MMA right? also what do you think about sullivan vs MMA fighters nowadays? and my final question was i was reading some thing on Boxing vs Wrestling and they said wrestling in the USA in the early 1900s was different then what it is today? was therea big difference or no?

Wrestling back in the day was real, though fixes were still more frequent than (for instance) in boxing. Matches were generally won via pin (as in amateur wrestling today), but submissions were also practiced...many of which have survived today in "catch" wrestling. One of the best manuals from this period:

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Pugilism was the closest you got to MMA for almost two hundred years--especially since it legalized the only major combat systems of the time (fisticuffs and above the belt wrestling). Sullivan might do well against fighters today if (and this is a big one) he can keep it standing. It's more likely, though, that he would be taken down and submitted.

On the other hand, Sullivan would probably blitz through most of the guys in the early UFC's--I could see him having the same success as Royce or Shamrock, for instance.

[younghypnotiq]

didnt they allow grappling back then? not UFC type where they are on the ground most of the time but couldnt you throw people? im looking for some manuals on boxing back there i found one on john L. sullivan i will post it up when i find it again

[cross_trainer]

didnt they allow grappling back then? not UFC type where they are on the ground most of the time but couldnt you throw people? im looking for some manuals on boxing back there i found one on john L. sullivan i will post it up when i find it again

They allowed you to throw your opponent. All holds above the waist were considered legal, and trips were also permitted. No shooting for the legs and no groundfighting.

In short, it was probably enough to secure takedown defense against most guys who don't specialize in takedowns, which is why I would suspect that Sullivan and company would be able to blast through most of the early UFCs.

[younghypnotiq]

thanks. do you have any manuals on bareknuckle boxing?

[cross_trainer]

thanks. do you have any manuals on bareknuckle boxing?

There are some online, which are available on my "bareknuckle boxing resources" thread:
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There are also a few that have recently been republished. These are the publishers and books:

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[younghypnotiq]

cool. thanks this is what i have found. [Only registered and activated users can see links]

some arent there so just go to archives.org and copy the link and put it in there and it will come up

[cross_trainer]

1945-1967

Kimura
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Kimura vs. Gracie
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Helio Gracie
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Carlson Gracie
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Gene Lebell
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Jon Bluming
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Anton Geesink
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1967-1993

Bill Wallace
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Joe Lewis
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Kickboxing History
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Benny Urquidez
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Joko Ninomiya (All-Japan Karate Champion) vs. Wing Chun Guy
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Rolls Gracie
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Rickson vs. Rei Zulu
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Rickson Gracie
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Chris Dolman
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Antonio Inoki
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[andyZOR]

i got it

[chuffy]

Outstanding thread, Cross_Trainer, thanks for taking the time to do this, it's much appreciated! :D

[Stoo]

I was strangely enough going to look for this thread earlier just to have another gander, but I forgot

Just logged in and cross_trainer is online, weird :shock::huh:hi:

[rekcutnevets]

Why the fuck isn't this thread a sticky?

[Stoo]

+1

Fuck Im feeling old, remember reading this many times before I signed up

Cross-Trainer your input is sorely missed

[cat_funt]

Where is CC gone anyway?

[Stoo]

He was on last night, how I found this thread

[Chucky]

Why the fuck isn't this thread a sticky?

:good

[rekcutnevets]

Thanks, Chucky. You're the man.

[Stoo]

:good
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[Flea Man]

Some amazing stuff here.

Bob Fitzsimmons did a lot of greco roman with bigger guys to prepare himself for the clinch work in boxing at the time (obviously no tosses allowed in queensbury ;-)) as well as rolling with his pet lion :lol:

[Flea Man]

:good

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[Stoo]

Some amazing stuff here.

Bob Fitzsimmons did a lot of greco roman with bigger guys to prepare himself for the clinch work in boxing at the time (obviously no tosses allowed in queensbury ;-)) as well as rolling with his pet lion :lol:
Check out Cross_Trainers threads on old time boxers in MMA. Great read

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[Flea Man]

Check out Cross_Trainers threads on old time boxers in MMA. Great read

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Followed his stuff on the Classic, a brilliant source of knowledge no doubt :good

[leejunfan777]

brock lesnar started all this

[Stoo]

Bump because leejunfans name at the top on the forum and being the last to post in this epic thread was doing my head in, couldnt take it no more