Do You Think Ali Was Scared For The 2nd Liston Fight?

[McGrain]

I am satisfied that Ali was scared for the first Liston fight, and he wound all that fear and hysteria up into adrenaline.

What about the 2nd one?

Was Ali scared?

Or do you think he had arrived?

[Jose FM]

He probably wasnt, cause this is Ali we're talking about here, but he probably was hesitant on fighting him again no question.

[JohnThomas1]

I think anyone would have to be at least a little scared going in vs Liston.

[McGrain]

I think anyone would have to be at least a little scared going in vs Liston.

Jack Johnson and Lennox Lewis would have been cool. Maybe Joe Louis.

Everyone else would be shitting it right enough.

But I think Ali, having already been in with him once, looked pretty good.

[NickHudson]

I think Ali's conversion to Islam post Liston I, and subsequent belief in Allah's Will, gave him extra confidence and security over and above his natural ego.

Secondly, Ali was by now the champ and would have benefited from the experience of Liston I, both in terms of knowing he had his man covered, and the actual psychology of being the champ walking into the ring.

Although brashness and big-talking is often a sign of deep seated insecurity I believe Ali to have been a naturally confident man and that by Liston II he was very confident indeed.

Liston was a scary man, but I think Ali loved fighting this kind of opponent, slightly sluggish, and knew he had him covered.

All in all I think Ali was in good mental shape going into Liston II. I also believe him to have been in phenomenal physical shape, and the shortness of the fight robbed us of another Ali-Williams performance....shame.

[Thread Stealer]

I think Ali had fear of fighters but knew how to handle it.

I think most fighters are more nervous and have more fear than they let off.

[doublesuited]

Robinson wasn't involved with the mob as extensively as Liston was.

[doublesuited]

I know that it was revealed in the 1960 US Senate subcommittee that Liston's boxing contract was cut up in favor of Frankie Carbo (52%), Blinky Palermo (12%), John Vitale (12%), and two others not identified with 12% each.

[la-califa]

Liston was more afraid than Ali. Death threats were everywhere & Liston got out of there as soon as he could anyway he could. Acording to a story I read in Ring Magazine a few years ago.

[McGrain]

Fill me in, what I do now is that Liston worked for them as some sort of bouncer or something, is that correct?

I broke this down with some decent depth in Janitor's "Beware the Bum Of The Month Club", you should check it out if you're interested.

Liston was never a leg-breaker for the mob IMO, but he may have done some mencace work early one.

[McGrain]

Liston was a pussy in that case. He's supposed to be a hard man with no fear and he gets run around as a professional athlete by the mob. What happened when they asked Sugar Ray Robinson? He just said "No thanks I don't do business that way" and hung up. What happened? Not a goddamn thing.

Bro, Sugar did business with the mob. Liston was a little different. He'd worked with them from day one from day one. He'd seen what they could do from day one. And he was probably in a situation where he could be exposed as a rapist at any time by these guys. The mob cleared up a LOT of messes for Liston.

[McGrain]

I know that it was revealed in the 1960 US Senate subcommittee that Liston's boxing contract was cut up in favor of Frankie Carbo (52%), Blinky Palermo (12%), John Vitale (12%), and two others not identified with 12% each.

Palermo and Carbo were not in official possesion of Liston's contract when he fought Ali (1st or 2nd), there was no-one in official possesion.

Never heard the Vitale thing, that's interesting.

[fists of fury]

First fight yes. Second fight absolutely not.

Ali at that stage realised he easily had the beating of Liston. I think he realised that Liston was an old, slow fighter and Ali already had the psychological edge by beating him relatively easily in the first fight. In Ali's biography "The Greatest" he mentions the fear he experienced going in with Liston the first time, but he didn't mention anything about fearing Liston in their second fight.
He did mention the fear of hitmen or mob involvement in the second fight, but he mentioned nothing about fearing Liston.

[McGrain]

First fight yes. Second fight absolutely not.

I agree with you. Ali is like Louis in that, to me, he just LOOKS different once he has the title.

Interestingly, Ali probably didn't look afraid again until he fought Foreman - also as a challenger.