Will Hopkisn neutralize Calzaghe's high punch output .....

[joito3]

in similar fashion to Quintana limiting Williams to only 50 punches a round instead of 100 ??

[Symphenyceo]

nah but joe probably throw like 70 punches per rd

[RICH]

yes by alot.

[MON]

Calzaghe's in a different league to Williams, so no.

[kg0208]

in similar fashion to Quintana limiting Williams to only 50 punches a round instead of 100 ??

It's possible. But Calzaghe understands distance and timing a bit better than Williams, who seemed at a loss when Quintana changed angles on him.

[kg0208]

Calzaghe's in a different league to Williams, so no.

Hopkins is in a different league than Quintana as well......I would hope you are taking both into account.

[scott is cool]

I read that on the main page. I think the writer tries to complicate boxing too much, because I think tactics can help Hopkins thwart Calzaghe's high energy, but only for a certain amount of time, I think Calzaghe and Williams are a class apart, and I think Hopkins will not be able to keep Calzaghe away for 12 rounds. No way.

[FRKO]

The author of that article acts like speed is Joe's only asset. What utter crap.

[Jase2483]

Calzaghe's in a different league to Williams, so no.


how because his undefeated starts with a 4x and pauls started with a 3x?

:o

don't be shocked if the fight is alot closer than all the Joe C fanboys expect.
He's never even fought anyone close to the level of even an OLD PAST his prime B-Hop.

Kessler is the best he's faced, and he's a forward walking agressive offensive minded fighter......b-hop isn't that at all.

I personally give Joe the edge, but I would love to see b-hop beat that ass, because i dont think Joe C is anywhere near an ATG - he fought in a noncompetitive weightclass mainly beating bums for ten years.....so impressive? eh?

[Imperial1]

Of course he can at least from a strategic standpoint ..Hopkins was smart enought to take away Winky's jab I'm sure he can devise a plan to nuetralize Joe's speed ..But will his body coorperate with his plan,thats the question .People are banking on Joe to smoke Hops on speed but if Hopkins shows no signs of slowing down he could beat Joe in an ugly as hell fight ..

[196osh]

To an extent. But I think that will be down to Joe throwing less punch's to ensure he doesnt get counterd.

[PrideOfWales]

Calzaghe doesn't blindly go into a fight with the intention of throwing 1000 punches by the end of it. Calzaghe adapts in the fight and does what he has to. Against Lacy & Kessler, he proved he can do it if needed, picking off the bigger puncher and keeping them at bay. Against Hopkins, it will be totally different. I can forgive people for not being too familiar with Joe's opponents prior to Lacy but he has fought many defensive counter punchers before yet still has 0 losses.

Yes, Hopkins is better than most of those opponents and Joe can tend to box down to his opponent's level. It's not going to be a pretty fight this and Joe is not going to throw 1000 punches. As I said, he adapts to his opponent and with his mastery of distance and timing, can box very well. His punch output will be less, but that can only improve his accuracy.

[Pimp C]

in similar fashion to Quintana limiting Williams to only 50 punches a round instead of 100 ??
I have no doubt in my mind that Hopkins will make Calzaghe's workate drop. Hopkins is the master at getting people to fight his fight.

[sean]

yes hopkins will nuetralize joes punch output.

and especially so if hopkins gets ahead in the fight.

i expect hopkins to back up walk left and right, feint a lot and set traps and then try with lead right or left hook and iniate a clinch and maul.

this will lower calzaghe`s workrate by half IMO.

[Jase2483]

Yes, Hopkins is better than most of those opponents and Joe can tend to box down to his opponent's level. It's not going to be a pretty fight this and Joe is not going to throw 1000 punches. As I said, he adapts to his opponent and with his mastery of distance and timing, can box very well. His punch output will be less, but that can only improve his accuracy.
Hopkins is still better than all those opponents he's faced.

Even a faded b-hop is still more of an ATG than Joe C.....sorry.....look at the resumes.

If, and only if, Joe C loses - it will expose his career for being what it was - staying in a weight class which completely lacked talent, and then losing to the first truly great fighter(albiet severely passed his best days) he faced - whats that say about his 10 year legacy?

Oh well, at least the fight isn't at 168, so his precious belts aren't at stake

[PrideOfWales]

Hopkins is still better than all those opponents he's faced.

Even a faded b-hop is still more of an ATG than Joe C.....sorry.....look at the resumes.

If, and only if, Joe C loses - it will expose his career for being what it was - staying in a weight class which completely lacked talent, and then losing to the first truly great fighter(albiet severely passed his best days) he faced - whats that say about his 10 year legacy?

Oh well, at least the fight isn't at 168, so his precious belts aren't at stake

Let's stay on topic... see the thread title - it will give you a clue.

[KayEpps]

Yes - B-Hop always finds a way to neutralize his opponent best weapon.

After being Countered - Calzaghe will start choosing his punches wisely. But once he starts thinking about his punch selection - it's the end of the fight for him.

[Jase2483]

Let's stay on topic... see the thread title - it will give you a clue.
No valid counter points? Just what I suspected.

Joe C's output will be severely neutralized, he will have to work way harder than ever before to win this fight, and I wouldn't be shocked at all if b-hop turns it into a hideously ugly fight and out points Joe.

Joe leaves himself ready in a lot of situations for nasty counterpunching cause of his awkward style - i think bhop's ability playing the angles will allow him to land

[Jase2483]

Yes - B-Hop always finds a way to neutralize his opponent best weapon.

After being Countered - Calzaghe will start choosing his punches wisely. But once he starts thinking about his punch selection - it's the end of the fight for him.

:good :happy

great post

[PrideOfWales]

Joe C's output will be severely neutralized, he will have to work way harder than ever before to win this fight, and I wouldn't be shocked at all if b-hop turns it into a hideously ugly fight and out points Joe.

Joe leaves himself ready in a lot of situations for nasty counterpunching cause his awkward style - i think bhop ability playing the angles will allow him to land

Joe leaves himself open in high paced fights, yes. This isn't going to be a high paced fight. Calzaghe is going to box like you've never seen him box in the 3-4 fights you've seen. It only takes one of Joe's punches to land for BHop to cover up. This is when Joe will be at his most successful with a quick combo before moving out of range.

Calzaghe's footwork is the best that Hopkins will have faced since Roy Jones Jnr. He's quick on his feet and Hopkins will have to work harder than ever to smother Joe in the mid and late rounds. This, coupled with his hand speed makes him a formidable opponent at this stage in his career. If Hopkins beats Joe, I will be astounded and we can consider Joe's career based on the manner of the defeat, not before.

[Jase2483]

Joe leaves himself open in high paced fights, yes. This isn't going to be a high paced fight. Calzaghe is going to box like you've never seen him box in the 3-4 fights you've seen. It only takes one of Joe's punches to land for BHop to cover up. This is when Joe will be at his most successful with a quick combo before moving out of range.

Calzaghe's footwork is the best that Hopkins will have faced since Roy Jones Jnr. He's quick on his feet and Hopkins will have to work harder than ever to smother Joe in the mid and late rounds. This, coupled with his hand speed makes him a formidable opponent at this stage in his career. If Hopkins beats Joe, I will be astounded and we can consider Joe's career based on the manner of the defeat, not before.

3-4 fights? Thanks for telling me how many Joe C fights I've seen
I've probably got video on 20 of them sitting at my house. Don't ever imply that I don't know a fighter when I make a statement. But I'm sure you've seen every one of his thrilling and utterly masterful wins - right? (by the way, thrilling and utterly masterful was me being completely facetious)

So if Joe C loses - will you be willing to admit his legacy is a sham and that his career was exposed?

I just don't think he's *that* good.....or even close to it.

[kg0208]

3-4 fights? Thanks for telling me how many Joe C fights I've seen
I've probably got video on 20 of them sitting at my house. Don't ever imply that I don't know a fighter when I make a statement. But I'm sure you've seen every one of his thrilling and utterly masterful wins - right? (by the way, thrilling and utterly masterful was me being completely facetious)

So if Joe C loses - will you be willing to admit his legacy is a sham and that his career was exposed?

I just don't think he's *that* good.....or even close to it.

Well, I take a bit of issue with the "Joe C. loses, his legacy is a sham and he is exposed."

Hopkins may be just that good. He is already an ATG, one of the best MW of all time, and a helluva fighter. Losing to him can't possibly expose you as a fighter.

[PrideOfWales]

Well, I take a bit of issue with the "Joe C. loses, his legacy is a sham and he is exposed."

Hopkins may be just that good. He is already an ATG, one of the best MW of all time, and a helluva fighter. Losing to him can't possibly expose you as a fighter.

Exactly my thoughts. It will also depend on the fight.

[TFFP]

To some extent

Mainly because of all that homo hugging he likes to engage in

[Jase2483]

Well, I take a bit of issue with the "Joe C. loses, his legacy is a sham and he is exposed."

Hopkins may be just that good. He is already an ATG, one of the best MW of all time, and a helluva fighter. Losing to him can't possibly expose you as a fighter.

All I'm saying is who has Joe C fought thats even close to being great? Kessler....i think thats by far the best opponent he's ever fought, and is there anyone else you can even rate as a A- fighter on his resume?

I'm sorry, I'm all about giving respect where respect is due. But he fought in a garbage weightclass, never going up or down for better competition, and never really leaving his safe and comfortable europe.

[TFFP]

All I'm saying is who has Joe C fought thats even close to being great? Kessler....i think thats by far the best opponent he's ever fought, and is there anyone else you can even rate as a A- fighter on his resume?

I'm sorry, I'm all about giving respect where respect is due. But he fought in a garbage weightclass, never going up or down for better competition, and never really leaving his safe and comfortable europe.
And Hopkins has left his safe and comfortable US of A how many times exactly?

Let me help you out, it's twice, the same as Joe Calzaghe

[PrideOfWales]

All I'm saying is who has Joe C fought thats even close to being great? Kessler....i think thats by far the best opponent he's ever fought, and is there anyone else you can even rate as a A- fighter on his resume?

I'm sorry, I'm all about giving respect where respect is due. But he fought in a garbage weightclass, never going up or down for better competition, and never really leaving his safe and comfortable europe.

So if he wins against Hopkins and proves he can step up from B and C level opponents and operate at this "elite" level, you will be forced to accept that he is actually a half decent boxer?

[Jase2483]

So if he wins against Hopkins and proves he can step up from B and C level opponents and operate at this "elite" level, you will be forced to accept that he is actually a half decent boxer?

Yea more than happily will. I have no problem giving him credit for it.

But are you willing to admit that if he loses to an over the hill b-hop that he was nothing more than someone who continually beat b and mainly c minus fighters, and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as ANY ATG?

[kg0208]

All I'm saying is who has Joe C fought thats even close to being great? Kessler....i think thats by far the best opponent he's ever fought, and is there anyone else you can even rate as a A- fighter on his resume?

I'm sorry, I'm all about giving respect where respect is due. But he fought in a garbage weightclass, never going up or down for better competition, and never really leaving his safe and comfortable europe.
Ok, so by your estimation then , if Calzaghe wins, you would say his entire career is validated by this fight? I don't agree with either scenario. Both are great fighters, and I give a certain amount of credit for cleaning out a division. Remember, Hopkins division wasn't that strong. When it was, he faced none of the fighters who were big names there (or the weight above him) much like Calzaghe. I do however, give credit to Hopkins for the same thing.

[Jase2483]

Ok, so by your estimation then , if Calzaghe wins, you would say his entire career is validated by this fight?
EFFFF NO - beating b-hop still wont put him close to being an ATG

But the fact without beating anyone ever considered a world class elite, and people still try to say he's an ATG is just utterly disrespectful to the history and the sport of boxing.

[PrideOfWales]

Yea more than happily will. I have no problem giving him credit for it.

But are you willing to admit that if he loses to an over the hill b-hop that he was nothing more than someone who continually beat b and mainly c minus fighters, and doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as ANY ATG?

There are many factors of the fight that could play a part in the outcome. It's ridiculous to judge before the fight.

What if Joe clearly gets old overnight? etc..

I will reserve judgement on whether Joe Calzaghe is an ATG until after he has retired, the same as Bernard Hopkins.

[kg0208]

EFFFF NO - beating b-hop still wont put him close to being an ATG

But the fact without beating anyone ever considered a world class elite, and people still try to say he's an ATG is just utterly disrespectful to the history and the sport of boxing.
Kessler IMO is a world class fighter, so is Eubank. I also think Reid was a world class fighter, who got some unlucky breaks much like Glen Johnson. Either way, perception of a weak division can hurt many fighters. I give him credit for cleaning it out and unifying. The same amount I give Hopkins.

You don't seem to be willing give equal credit to your criticism if the opposite scenario happens from what you think will happen.

[brooklyn1550]

Yes, Hopkins' movement and defense can lower Calzaghe's punch output. However, Calzaghe will still be outworking him.

[PrideOfWales]

Jase2483 - if you're so concerned with the respect, history and reputation of boxing, why can't you appreciate a gutsy box-fighter who uses everything he has to win a fight. Just look forward to the fight without trying (and you're not doing it that well) to pass Calzaghe off as a nobody who never was. Few boxers get the kind of record Calzaghe has got, appreciate him for what he is.

[Jase2483]

You don't seem to be willing give equal credit to your criticism if the opposite scenario happens from what you think will happen.

Hopkins dominated several different weights?
Beat several fighters which are DEFINITE HOF-ers???

Resume's aren't even close - if you're going to argue a counter point, logically think it through first please.

[Jase2483]

Jase2483 - if you're so concerned with the respect, history and reputation of boxing, why can't you appreciate a gutsy box-fighter who uses everything he has to win a fight. Just look forward to the fight without trying (and you're not doing it that well) to pass Calzaghe off as a nobody who never was. Few boxers get the kind of record Calzaghe has got, appreciate him for what he is.

I'm just saying he doesn't deserve to be considered a great - I'm shocked he's taking the b-hop fight - I thought he'd fight a few more bums, retire 50-0, and act like he's better than marciano. But thats just my humble opinion.

He's a fighter who i feel deserves more criticism for his career than PBF, but gets none of it....funny how fan perception effects that.

[Rise Above]

Hopkins will need to limit Joe's output big time to have any chance of winning this fight. I'm not sure he can do it.

[TFFP]

I'm just saying he doesn't deserve to be considered a great - I'm shocked he's taking the b-hop fight - I thought he'd fight a few more bums, retire 50-0, and act like he's better than marciano. But thats just my humble opinion.

He's a fighter who i feel deserves more criticism for his career than PBF, but gets none of it....funny how fan perception effects that.
Gets none of it?

Have you been living in a cave? Not a day goes by without a Joe Calzaghe resume thread

[PrideOfWales]

I'm just saying he doesn't deserve to be considered a great - I'm shocked he's taking the b-hop fight - I thought he'd fight a few more bums, retire 50-0, and act like he's better than marciano. But thats just my humble opinion.

He's a fighter who i feel deserves more criticism for his career than PBF, but gets none of it....funny how fan perception effects that.

I don't say this very often, but you are a complete moron.

This is my last post directed towards you:

It's easy to discredit ANY record.

[kg0208]

Hopkins dominated several different weights?
Beat several fighters which are DEFINITE HOF-ers???

Resume's aren't even close - if you're going to argue a counter point, logically think it through first please.
Don't resort to the childishness.

Hopkins has dominated exactly ONE weight class. He isn't a dominant LHW, and has yet to fight a LHW since winning his title. He is now about to fight another NON LHW. How is that dominating the weight class? He has fought ONE LHW....

Their resumes aren't that far apart. The 3 HoF Hopkins has beaten, he beat none of them in their prime weights (actually all 3 were beaten at least 2 weight classes over Prime weight). And they all came up to face him. Is that a criticism? Perhaps....I think the Trinidad win is a good one. I don't rate the DLH and Wright wins very highly because of the condition they were in and how far from their natural weights they were. Hopkins has a better resume, but it's not the gap you make it out to be. Calzaghe has beaten 1 HoF and who knows what Kessler will do.

[Bodysnatcher]

I'm just saying he doesn't deserve to be considered a great - I'm shocked he's taking the b-hop fight - I thought he'd fight a few more bums, retire 50-0, and act like he's better than marciano. But thats just my humble opinion.

He's a fighter who i feel deserves more criticism for his career than PBF, but gets none of it....funny how fan perception effects that.

This argument was common before the Lacy fight.

I honestly thought the Lacy and Kessler wins would dispel the notion that Joe didn't want the biggest challenges in his division.

Guess I was a bit hasty there.

[Jase2483]

Don't resort to the childishness.

Hopkins has dominated exactly ONE weight class. He isn't a dominant LHW, and has yet to fight a LHW since winning his title. He is now about to fight another NON LHW. How is that dominating the weight class? He has fought ONE LHW....

Their resumes aren't that far apart. The 3 HoF Hopkins has beaten, he beat none of them in their prime weights (actually all 3 were beaten at least 2 weight classes over Prime weight). And they all came up to face him. Is that a criticism? Perhaps....I think the Trinidad win is a good one. I don't rate the DLH and Wright wins very highly because of the condition they were in and how far from their natural weights they were. Hopkins has a better resume, but it's not the gap you make it out to be. Calzaghe has beaten 1 HoF and who knows what Kessler will do.

I wasn't being childish....I was being honest. Joe C doesn't have near the quality wins B-Hop has, its a plain and simple fact. You can continually try to narrow the gap, and try to pick your loved Joe C up into the ranks of the greats....but he's not. He fought in a transitional weight class designed for past their prime 154/160's or young fighters getting ring exp before going LHW.....true story.

[Jase2483]

This argument was common before the Lacy fight.

I honestly thought the Lacy and Kessler wins would dispel the notion that Joe didn't want the biggest challenges in his division.

Guess I was a bit hasty there.

lacy's another prospect that got more over-rated than I thought possible, and now post shoulder surgery, he'll never be the fighter anyone hoped he'd be. He struggled to decision manfredo......laughable.

[rusticraver]

hmmm, i wonder if people predicting bhop realise Joe has a world class jab, head movement and inside game as well?

He tries any rough shit with Joe on the inside hes going to get badly beaten up.

Joe's going to sit in the pocket the whole fight, wait for bhop to tie him up and smash the shit out of him with combinations coming out of the clinch

[Jase2483]

hmmm, i wonder if people predicting bhop realise Joe has a world class jab, head movement and inside game as well?

He tries any rough shit with Joe on the inside hes going to get badly beaten up.

Joe's going to sit in the pocket the whole fight, wait for bhop to tie him up and smash the shit out of him with combinations coming out of the clinch

We'll see.

personally for all the Joe C bashing I've done in this thread I still see him getting by BHop, but not NEARLY as easy as most people suspect. If he wins it will help him gain alot of respect in my book, but personally I dont think he's done enough to be an ATG, especially if the rumors are true and he retires post BHop

[kg0208]

I wasn't being childish....I was being honest. Joe C doesn't have near the quality wins B-Hop has, its a plain and simple fact. You can continually try to narrow the gap, and try to pick your loved Joe C up into the ranks of the greats....but he's not. He fought in a transitional weight class designed for past their prime 154/160's or young fighters getting ring exp before going LHW.....true story.
I am not a Calzaghe fan. I am not a Hopkins fan. Stop being so presumptious (something you seemed upset about when someone did it to you earlier). You obviously don't know much about my taste in fighters. To brand me a Calzaghe fan would be......laughable, to say the least.

Assuming because I disagree with you that my point wasn't thought out is childish, especially in the way you stated it, which was purely meant as an insult based on your faulty presumption.

What you stated wasn't a fact, but your opinion based on certain facts that you have interpreted a certain way. Hopkins best wins are against smaller fighters. And while Calzaghe has less on his resume, he has a few quality wins, ones you cannot dispute, and he has cleaned out his division, much like Hopkins. And his division was no weaker than the MW division Hopkins fought in. The gap isn't huge.

The 168 division is no different than any other weight class in between the original 8. So that's not a valid point at all.

I also noticed you completely ignored the counter point to your "Hopkins dominated multiple weight classes."

[rusticraver]

We'll see.

personally for all the Joe C bashing I've done in this thread I still see him getting by BHop, but not NEARLY as easy as most people suspect. If he wins it will help him gain alot of respect in my book, but personally I dont think he's done enough to be an ATG, especially if the rumors are true and he retires post BHop

116-112 for me, vintage calzaghe

i aint no fanboy either it's based on what i have seen from both fighters in their last few fights

[sherbert]

Hopkins can try to kep Joe from throwing lost of punchs. However, since he could not do it against the one dimensional fighter like Taylor his chances are slim to none. Calzaghe is in a different league than Taylor.

[Jase2483]

I am not a Calzaghe fan. I am not a Hopkins fan. Stop being so presumptious (something you seemed upset about when someone did it to you earlier). You obviously don't know much about my taste in fighters. To brand me a Calzaghe fan would be......laughable, to say the least.

Assuming because I disagree with you that my point wasn't thought out is childish, especially in the way you stated it, which was purely meant as an insult based on your faulty presumption.

What you stated wasn't a fact, but your opinion based on certain facts that you have interpreted a certain way. Hopkins best wins are against smaller fighters. And while Calzaghe has less on his resume, he has a few quality wins, ones you cannot dispute, and he has cleaned out his division, much like Hopkins. And his division was no weaker than the MW division Hopkins fought in. The gap isn't huge.

The 168 division is no different than any other weight class in between the original 8. So that's not a valid point at all.

I also noticed you completely ignored the counter point to your "Hopkins dominated multiple weight classes."

My apologies for applying the Joe C fanboy tag, and even more apologetic for my post being implied as insulting. I come across that way but its definitely not my intentions, I tend to be overly aggressive when defending or presenting my arguement - I'm in no way gods gift to analyzing pugilism. I'm not trying to dispute any of Joe C's wins, or any of his limited quality wins....he's a great fighter at 168. I just think during his reign of terror, if he would have been at MW, or at LHW - the tale of his career would be a much different story, just based on his natural god given gifts. I dont blame him for staying at 168, he was in a weight class he could easily dominate and clean up.

My biggest point I'm trying to make is out of 100 fights, Joe C would be hard pressed to win 65 of them vs. B-Hop. Once again, just my humble opinion - no insults or condescension directed towards you.

[sherbert]

Hopkins dominated several different weights?
Beat several fighters which are DEFINITE HOF-ers???

Resume's aren't even close - if you're going to argue a counter point, logically think it through first please.

He only dominated 160. I have no idea where you got the idea he has dominated in several weights classes. He has only fought at LHW twice. One being a very controversial win over a natural 154 pound fighter in Winky Wright. He koed oscar and oscar is a natural welter.

[kg0208]

My apologies for applying the Joe C fanboy tag, and even more apologetic for my post being implied as insulting. I come across that way but its definitely not my intentions, I tend to be overly aggressive when defending or presenting my arguement - I'm in no way gods gift to analyzing pugilism. I'm not trying to dispute any of Joe C's wins, or any of his limited quality wins....he's a great fighter at 168. I just think during his reign of terror, if he would have been at MW, or at LHW - the tale of his career would be a much different story, just based on his natural god given gifts. I dont blame him for staying at 168, he was in a weight class he could easily dominate and clean up.

My biggest point I'm trying to make is out of 100 fights, Joe C would be hard pressed to win 65 of them vs. B-Hop. Once again, just my humble opinion - no insults or condescension directed towards you.

Fair enough, no worries.

I agree in the sense that Calzaghe's competition has made it nearly impossible to label him what his fans want to. However, I am kinda oldshool in giving credit to fighters for cleaning divisions out.

I honestly think I learned more about Hopkins in his loss to Jones and his win over Johnson than I did from his defeat of Trinidad.

[Jase2483]

He only dominated 160. I have no idea where you got the idea he has dominated in several weights classes. He has only fought at LHW twice. One being a very controversial win over a natural 154 pound fighter in Winky Wright. He koed oscar and oscar is a natural welter.

Gah I definitely wish i could retract "dominated" from that post, but its way to late.

I meant to say he went through several classes, beating alot of good fighters in each.

I thought I put that in my previous post, but I guess i didn't retract it there

Either way, that bone headed use of "dominated" has put me in a hole I can't get out of in this arguement - and that's a fact.

[Jase2483]

I honestly think I learned more about Hopkins in his loss to Jones and his win over Johnson than I did from his defeat of Trinidad.

Great statement, and I think two of the best fight examples to paint a good picture of who B-Hop is in the ring. Although I still like his trinidad fight as well.

[TFFP]

I kinda like the way Joe is perceived now. We defend his resume to the hilt, the Yanks bash him to pieces

Either way, he's something of an enigma and it keeps things interesting on here. My fear is he'll win 2 more after Hopkins, and there will be nothing to argue ;)

[PrideOfWales]

Hopkins is 43 and only stepped up to LHW a couple of years ago after spending ALL 10 of his championship years at Middleweight.

Calzaghe is 35 and is stepping up to LHW a few years before Hopkins did and will have reigned longer at SMW than Bernard did at MW.

i.e. Arguing this way, it may seem like Calzaghe is on course to eclipse Hopkins' weight division jumping exploits. All of these are actual facts.

[sherbert]

Gah I definitely wish i could retract "dominated" from that post, but its way to late.

I meant to say he went through several classes, beating alot of good fighters in each.

I thought I put that in my previous post, but I guess i didn't retract it there

Either way, that bone headed use of "dominated" has put me in a hole I can't get out of in this arguement - and that's a fact.

Not argueing man.

[Jase2483]

I kinda like the way Joe is perceived now. We defend his resume to the hilt, the Yanks bash him to pieces

Either way, he's something of an enigma and it keeps things interesting on here. My fear is he'll win 2 more after Hopkins, and there will be nothing to argue ;)


I agree completely. I think its hard for us "yanks" to take certain brit fighters as seriously as we should when they never come here to fight, rarely get exposure, and aren't always fighting who we want to see them fight.

Either way, I think the Joe C v. B-Hop fight is great for the sport, but i have that gut wrenching feeling its not going to be aesthetically pleasing and pretty boring.

[Jase2483]

Not argueing man.

argue/discuss/debate - all kind of interchangible in my vernacular.
Didn't mean to imply you were arguing with me.

[Jase2483]

i.e. Arguing this way, it may seem like Calzaghe is on course to eclipse Hopkins' weight division jumping exploits. All of these are actual facts.

Will surpassing his weight division jumping put him on the same level as B-Hop though?

If he fights till 43, beats more quality opp. I think it definitely does.

If he retires after bhop(or maybe 2 more fights after that) I don't think it does.

AND BIGGEST QUESTION FOR EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD:
Even if he managed to make it to 50-0 - could you possibly try to justify him as being the greatest ever?

[kg0208]

Will surpassing his weight division jumping put him on the same level as B-Hop though?

If he fights till 43, beats more quality opp. I think it definitely does.

If he retires after bhop(or maybe 2 more fights after that) I don't think it does.

AND BIGGEST QUESTION FOR EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD:
Even if he managed to make it to 50-0 - could you possibly try to justify him as being the greatest ever?

Greatest ever? I think it could justify a top 30 ATG ranking if in those 6 fights he needs to get there he beat Hopkins, Dawson, Woods, and a few contenders. There aren't enough available fighters for him to get higher IMO.

[Jase2483]

Greatest ever? I think it could justify a top 30 ATG ranking if in those 6 fights he needs to get there he beat Hopkins, Dawson, Woods, and a few contenders. There aren't enough available fighters for him to get higher IMO.

Yep if he beats those guys I could solidly put him somewhere between 20-35...not exactly sure without really looking it, but I'd guess he'd fall outside of my personal top 25