View Full Version : What will Hopkins place in history be if...
Florida boy
02-15-2008, 12:25 PM
he beats Calzaghe decisively? Where does he rank now?
randeris
02-15-2008, 12:27 PM
depends how.
Florida boy
02-15-2008, 12:35 PM
UD or KO/TKO i guess. No controversy.
I Think He Just Would Be More Respected By The Euro Fans.
He Has Already Solidified His Legacy In The Us.
K0NPHL1C7
02-15-2008, 12:39 PM
I would say top 20 all time P4P. Now I would put him top 50.
Asterion
02-15-2008, 12:46 PM
Top20.
scott is cool
02-15-2008, 12:55 PM
He has already solidified his legacy, but if he beats Calzaghe he will even more.
Asterion
02-15-2008, 01:00 PM
If he beats Calzaghe that would mean he's been the legtimate, linear champ at 160, 168 & 175 at different points during his career. If he beats Calzaghe and fights Roy Jones later this year and beats him (avenging his only "clear" loss) - I think he's a lock for top 15-20 p4p all time...
Yes.
I only disagree with one thing: When he was 168 Champ? :huh
The fight with Calzaghe is at 175.
PH|LLA
02-15-2008, 01:14 PM
a win without controversy would be the biggest win of his career no doubt it puts him with the best of the best.
HolgerD
02-15-2008, 01:36 PM
.......He Has Already Solidified His Legacy In The Us.
Why do you think so? Is it the big names on his resume or the accumulated carreer? I sense some people out there give him perhaps too much credit for his wins over Trinidad and Oscar. So I'm curious to know how much the big names weigh on HBOPs US legacy. Any idea of the general US fan opinion?
loveforboxing
02-15-2008, 01:53 PM
Pound for pound the best...that's my opinion
Richardmancini
02-15-2008, 02:22 PM
top 20 easy...fought the best (Jones, Taylor) Beat the best (Tito, Oscar, Tarver, Winky, Maybe Calzaghe)
dangerousity
02-15-2008, 02:23 PM
Top 15.
I don't know. All I know is if he wins he'll probably need to cheat to do so. Didn't Hops already say he was gonna cut Joe? I translated that to "I'm gonna headbutt Joe".
Motor City Sam
02-15-2008, 04:10 PM
True, but he'll be beating the best SMW of all time and the recognized SMW champ of the world right now. Furthermore, if he beats RJJ in a rematch, he'll beat the other man considered by many to be the best SMW of all time, not to mention avenging his most dominant loss.
Basically what I'm saying is that he'll have been everybody there was to beat from 160 to 175 in his career. The Taylor loses were so close and competitive, I don't think they hurt his legacy.
Well said, Calabrese. It would be hard for anyone to discount that accomplishment.
If Hopkins beats Calzaghe clearly (and not by a dumb DQ call or something like that), he easily deserves to be a top 15 ATG. That win would be beyond huge.
brooklyn1550
02-15-2008, 06:13 PM
A win over Calzaghe, at this stage in their respective careers, would be HUGE. Probably even bigger than that.
I rank Bernard in my top 40 right now, but if he beats Joe clearly, I could see a case for top 20 - right up there with Hagler and Monzon.
It will only further his legacy even more. I am more interested in what would people rate Calzaghe if he beats Hopkins.
A win over Calzaghe, at this stage in their respective careers, would be HUGE. Probably even bigger than that.
I rank Bernard in my top 40 right now, but if he beats Joe clearly, I could see a case for top 20 - right up there with Hagler and Monzon.
Would you say that a win against Calzaghe would be much bigger than any wins Monzon and Hagler ever had? This win would probably be the biggest single win of this decade.
BigBone
02-15-2008, 06:19 PM
If he beats Calzaghe that would mean he's been the legtimate, linear champ at 160, 168 & 175 at different points during his career. If he beats Calzaghe and fights Roy Jones later this year and beats him (avenging his only "clear" loss) - I think he's a lock for top 15-20 p4p all time...
Well 15-20 might be too high but I agree that he would be in the top 30. Of course a Jones win wouldn't mean too much for the historians as Jones is no longer an elite fighter and Hopkins has to unify and beat at least Erdei to be the lineal champ at 175, but beating Calzaghe and beating him decisively would be his BIGGEST win to date which would rocket him into the top30, somewhere around 26-30 IMO.
But I don't see that coming... I see a Calzaghe win, and if it will be dominant, Joe will be in the top50 on my list. To rank him or not rank him higher than Hopkins even after a win over the old Fox... I don't know... maybe if he can beat Jones as well (in this case – who’s better at the ATGs – just one tiny little win would be enough to pass him... and beating a 39-year-old Jones (or WBC champ Dawson, IBF champ Woods, WBO & lineal champ Erdei or Pavlik of course) would be enough.
brooklyn1550
02-15-2008, 06:28 PM
Would you say that a win against Calzaghe would be much bigger than any wins Monzon and Hagler ever had? This win would probably be the biggest single win of this decade.
I would rank a clear/deserving Hopkins victory against Calzaghe over any of Hagler and Monzon's best wins.
Hagler's best wins are against Hearns, Duran, Antuofermo, Hamsho, Mugabi, Sibson, and Minter.
Monzon's best wins are over Valdez, Benvenuti, Griffith, Napoles, and Briscoe.
I think Calzaghe, at 168 and 175, is better than any of the fighters I listed at the weight class they fought Monzon and Hagler in. Obviously Duran and Hearns rank above Joe at their best weights, but that's not an important point.
Calzaghe is also undefeated, a top 5 P4P fighter (number 2 and 3) in most people's list, a RING world champion, has cleaned out his division, and still has a lot left in the tank judging by his win over Mikkel Kessler. Add that to the fact that Hopkins is a very big underdog and 43 years old and you have what would be an ALL TIME GREAT win.
* Even if Hopkins beat Calzaghe, I'd rank Monzon and Hagler above him in terms of head to head ability at 160.
Jase2483
02-15-2008, 09:07 PM
I don't think beating Joe C will do that much for his legacy, it might move him up 10 spots at most on the list. But if he decisively beats Joe, it will unravel 10yrs of Joe "dominating" a division with no major talent.
RafaelGonzal
02-15-2008, 09:29 PM
Controversy or not he better not beat Joe C as that would shatter the greatest myth ever on this Forum.
Jase2483
02-15-2008, 09:30 PM
Controversy or not he better not beat Joe C as that would shatter the greatest myth ever on this Forum.
:good :happy :good :happy
RafaelGonzal
02-15-2008, 09:55 PM
Would you say that a win against Calzaghe would be much bigger than any wins Monzon and Hagler ever had? This win would probably be the biggest single win of this decade.
are you insane?
Griffith
Napoles
Hearns
Duran
and thats just off the top of my head.....Benvenuti
as for the decade much too many to even starts!!! this is what pisses me off about the overrating of Calzaghe my goodness its off the charts. The most overestimated fighter of this generation.
this is a perfect example of the Calzaghe bullshit thats going on!!!
sues2nd
02-15-2008, 11:04 PM
Top 15 hands down.
jecxbox
02-16-2008, 12:10 AM
If he schools Calzaghe....He would transcend the sport and his legacy into the highest of highs. Think about it man this guy is old as fuck, and hes fighting Joe Calzaghe who has only lost a hand full of ROUNDS in his entire career never losing a fight. Its a crazy thought honestly. I think Calzaghe will outwork him.
murphyx500
02-16-2008, 03:25 AM
this is what I don't get. most US guys don't rate calzaghe "ah he's only fought bums", therefore he is a bum? then if hopkins beats him, by the same logic, Hopkins has only beaten a bum? No, because it's Bernard Hopkins, it will solidify his legacy? What a crock of shit.
sues2nd
02-16-2008, 07:31 PM
this is what I don't get. most US guys don't rate calzaghe "ah he's only fought bums", therefore he is a bum? then if hopkins beats him, by the same logic, Hopkins has only beaten a bum? No, because it's Bernard Hopkins, it will solidify his legacy? What a crock of shit.
Most US posters on this site give Calzaghe a fuckin ton of respect. Read some posts and stop judging the majority on the minority.
I hate this nationalistic bullshit.
(and why dont you go read how many non-US posters call Hopkins a cheat...and a bum...overrated...etc...it goes both ways...so grow the fuck up...GAWD I HATE PEOPLE WHO USE THIS SHIT!!!)
nighthunter
02-17-2008, 01:05 AM
top 25
hitman6616
02-17-2008, 01:08 AM
10 years down the road he'll be top 20 P4P of all time(without the win against Joe)
With the win he moves into top 10 place...
Fedor Em
02-17-2008, 01:15 AM
Top 25 if he works Calzaghe, maybe top 20
Fedor Em
02-17-2008, 01:16 AM
this is what I don't get. most US guys don't rate calzaghe "ah he's only fought bums", therefore he is a bum? then if hopkins beats him, by the same logic, Hopkins has only beaten a bum? No, because it's Bernard Hopkins, it will solidify his legacy? What a crock of shit.
Calzaghe is a top 3 p4p fighter today on my list and top 15 over the last 20 years.
murphyx500
02-17-2008, 05:42 AM
Most US posters on this site give Calzaghe a fuckin ton of respect. Read some posts and stop judging the majority on the minority.
I hate this nationalistic bullshit.
(and why dont you go read how many non-US posters call Hopkins a cheat...and a bum...overrated...etc...it goes both ways...so grow the fuck up...GAWD I HATE PEOPLE WHO USE THIS SHIT!!!)
But what I don't get is people say Lacy and Kessler weren't good opponents - they were both undefeated champions. What does a fighter have to do to be considered good?
sues2nd
02-17-2008, 12:24 PM
But what I don't get is people say Lacy and Kessler weren't good opponents - they were both undefeated champions. What does a fighter have to do to be considered good?
Well, if you are hearing that about Kessler, I sure as hell aint reading it.
Im the first one to tell you that Kessler is overrated as hell on this board...but also the first one to tell you that that win was phenominal. Not just because Joe beat a very good fighter (not a great one as some would have you believe...but thats another post for another time)...but because how impressive he was at doing it.
Lacy on the other hand was a big powerful fighter, who beat a bunch of ok to good fighters on his way to a shot at Joe. He had bad footwork, no defense, bad technique and threw slower looping shots (albeit powerful as fuck ones)....vs a fighter like Joe, whose speed and technique (and great footwork) are exceptional...Lacy stood ZERO chance. I actually made a great deal of money off this fight. It was honestly a no brainer. And looking at his last fight vs Manfredo....how good was Lacy really ever?
Both are good wins mind you...but the WAY in which Joe won those bouts in my eyes was far more impressive than the names in which he beat.
But, let me clarify that by saying, I am not of the school of people who think Joe fought bums. I think he fought some VERY good competition...Eubank, Mitchell, Reid, Kessler, Lacy, Bika, etc....that is a very good resume. Now add Hopkins in there...win or lose it becomes a hell of alot better.
Instead of bringing nationalistic bullshit into the arguement...make your point...its alot easier than lumping the majority with the minority.
:good
Bslice
02-17-2008, 12:28 PM
Top 30
BaronBrad
02-17-2008, 12:29 PM
he beats Calzaghe decisively? Where does he rank now?
Miracle worker
Jase2483
02-17-2008, 02:11 PM
this is what I don't get. most US guys don't rate calzaghe "ah he's only fought bums", therefore he is a bum? then if hopkins beats him, by the same logic, Hopkins has only beaten a bum? No, because it's Bernard Hopkins, it will solidify his legacy? What a crock of shit.
no if it he beats joe c decisively...all it will say is he dethrone a bum that beat bums for ten years.....wont really do much for bhop, i don't think over time(40-50 years) that w/ Joe C's current history and complete lack of a resume that people a generation from now will see it as a big win - they'll view it as the loss that xposed Joe C for being a bum
Smazz20
02-17-2008, 03:02 PM
Would he leapfrog Jones on the ATG list if he beats Calzaghe?
From what I can gather off posts on this board, most people have Jones at around 25-30 (with the exception of that Puerto Rican chap, who seems a bit strange) and Hopkins in the top 40.
Jase2483
02-17-2008, 03:06 PM
Would he leapfrog Jones on the ATG list if he beats Calzaghe?
From what I can gather off posts on this board, most people have Jones at around 25-30 (with the exception of that Puerto Rican chap, who seems a bit strange) and Hopkins in the top 40.
will not jump jones to me
jones going all the way up and winning a HW alphabet belt is a big part of it
but the absolutely deciding factor is at 160 in his prime, jones looked utterly and completely unbeatable. To the point where he had the ability to throw(and land) what he wanted, however he wanted
Smazz20
02-17-2008, 03:14 PM
will not jump jones to me
jones going all the way up and winning a HW alphabet belt is a big part of it
but the absolutely deciding factor is at 160 in his prime, jones looked utterly and completely unbeatable. To the point where he had the ability to throw(and land) what he wanted, however he wanted
True. But taking their entire careers into account, Hopkins has longevity which counts for an awful lot. To beat the undisputed/undefeated 168 pound champion, no matter how much people overate/underate him, takes some doing. Especially at 43 years of age.
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