Compare Wlad's comp to the other Champions...

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Alright, let's take a look at Wlad's comp over his last 5 fights, compared to the other Champs in the heavyweight division, over their last five fights.

Wladimir has fought...

Sam Peter (20-0 -Undefeated top contender currently ranked #2 by ring mag. Wlad beat Peter senseless for 10 of their 12 rounds)
Chris Byrd (39-2-1 -#1 ranked by Ring Mag, IBF Champion. Wlad wins by brutal knockout)
Calvin Brock (29-0 Undefeated, top contender. Wlad wins by brutal knockout)
Ray Austin (24-3-4 mandatory defense, IBF #1 contender had just fought to a draw with Ibragimov. Wlad wins by brutal knockout)
Lamon Brewster (33-3 Former Champ, last person to beat Wlad, and highest available contender to fight. On his way to win by brutal knockout Brewster quits)

Oleg Maskaev has fought...

Quinn Navarre (30-12-1 uhhh....)
Livin Castillo (12-2....yea...)
Sanin Samil Sam (24-2... SSS is a decent gatekeeper in the division.)
Hasim Rahman (41-5-2 - WBC Champion. Very good win)
Peter Okhello (18-4 - first title defense... wow....)


Ruslan Chagaev has fought....

Rob Calloway (56-5-1 ...obviously nothing special)
Vladimir Virchis (20-0 - pretty decent prospect. Extremely close fight, good win)
Michael Sprott (28-9 -Journeyman, nothing special)
John Ruiz (41-6-1 - We all know Johnny as limited as he is, but never the less a very good split decision win over a former champ. WBA title eliminator.
Nikolay Valuev (46-0 -WBA Champ/monster.. huge win for him)

Sultan Ibragimov has fought...

Friday Abunanya (23-3-2 -nothing special)
Lance Whitaker (31-3-1 -Pretty good win, Lance is a dangerous opponent)
Ray Austin (24-3-3 - Fought to a draw)
Javier Mora (21-3-1 -fight was a joke, but a tune up I guess)
Shannon Briggs (48-4-1 - Very good win over the WBO Champion)


Now considering Wladimir's MUCH great competition, coupled with the fact that his wins were much more impressive... I would love to know why people are getting on his case as if he isn't fighting anyone.

We should be thanking Wladimir for giving us these fights. Now, let's hope one of the other Champions will fight him.

[Shpion]

I think only a morron would claim that Vladimir has not been fighting the best opposition in HW as compared to anybody else. And I am not even talking about the manner he beats his opposition.

[Beatboxer]

It all goes back to the Lennox Lewis days does the hate for the Klitschko brothers

that is the only explanation i can find for someone hating an exciting increasingly dominant guy who takes on anyone in front of him

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I see that the haters stayed out of this thread. No breathing room for them.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Widdow let me fix your analysis a little:

Peter-Overrated. No good wins period. Known for Jeremy Williams KO and hitting behind the back of the head. Best win is over a roided up former middleweight who hired some guy named Billy Blanks who doesn't know shit about boxing to train him. Arguably lost to that very same middleweight.

Chris Byrd-Unlike Peter Byrd can't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. Couple that with the fact that his reflexes were on teh decline and that he pretty much lost to perennial bums who are getting KOed by old Holy and overrated Brewster, like Oquendo and Golota.
Wlad fought the easiest of the 4 in my opinion to win the title (Rahman at least had a KO win of Lewis which is better then anything Byrd has done in his career. Both sucked however so Oleg and Wlad can thank their lucky stars they had to fight them).

Brock-Unproven, untested, and battered to the canvas by a light punching, quickly tiring McCline.

Austin-This guy was basically good until Sultan Ibragimov beat the shit out of him. most people think it was a draw but in reality Ray's jaw was wired shut for 4 months after the fight, and he could only drink through a straw during that time period. Ibragimov should have won the fight by rights but they robbed him of the win.
By the time Klitschko fought him Ray was completely done, had a barely healed jaw, and was there for the payday and because Don King worked his magic.

Wlad is not at fault for this fight btw. He was made to fight this guy and he did and beat him.


Brewster-Completely and utterly overrated. Claim to fame was getting beat up by an obviously drugged Wlad the first time around, but not beat up enough to be stopped.
Because Wlad did not watch his water intake and wasn't a professional about his corner we had to put up with Meehan-Brewster, and Brewster-Krasniqui.
On a more positive note he did put down Golota, but Golota was exposed almost a decade ago by Lennox Lewis so by the time Brewster got to him, he was complete garbage, that even washed up Tyson Koed.



There you have it.:yep

Seriously Wlad's comp looks pretty good on paper but IMHO they are beatable.
The reason they seem so much better is he fought them on TV on HBO, and they got exposure on those same channels (all of them got exposure in at least some form of victory)
WTF do you mean "they are beatbable"? Of course they are beatable, that is why he dominated all of them. Also... who on earth isn't beatable? Jirov?:rofl

I skipped over your opinions of the fighters after reading through the first one. Obviously, by that point I realized that it was retarded and not worth the read. You can play devil's advocate and tear down every fighter if you are biased enough... the point is that you could never elevate any other current Heavyweight Champions comp above Wlad's. End of story, Wlad is leaps and bounds above the comp.

[cross_trainer]

WTF do you mean "they are beatbable"? Of course they are beatable, that is why he dominated all of them. Also... who on earth isn't beatable? Jirov?:rofl

You can play devil's advocate and tear down every fighter if you are biased enough... the point is that you could never elevate any other current Heavyweight Champions comp above Wlad's. End of story, Wlad is leaps and bounds above the comp.

Virchis is actually a much better win than you presented him, in my opinion. Current EBU champion with Peter-like knockout power. Great chin, too. It's the narrowness of most of Chagaev's wins, rather than the quality, that places him below Wlad.

[cross_trainer]

If you call those handpicked bums the best, that doesn't make it so.

Your opinion is fine by me.
Wlad is 1.
I don't see a point in saying it any more.

Who were the best?

[maciek4]

:yep EXACTLY!!!!!

So why do you think Wlad deserves more credit then any other champ?

Of course he deserves MUCH MORE credit than others.
Widdow gave a very good analysis by giving credit to all belt holders for meaningful fights. Your analysis were crap.

Lets put it this way. Imagine Wlad fighting the competition of other belt holders, if he was fighting Peter Pthello or Wladimir Virchis people would be all over him for this, yet those are good opponents for Chagaev and Maskaev. The expectations for Wladimir are set so high its ridiculous.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Virchis is actually a much better win than you presented him, in my opinion. Current EBU champion with Peter-like knockout power. Great chin, too. It's the narrowness of most of Chagaev's wins, rather than the quality, that places him below Wlad.
I didn't say anything bad about that win. I said it was a good win over a decent prospect. I don't think the win is anything mind blowing or anything. A good win over a good undefeated prospect. I have always been a bit suspicious of Virchis since he was being soundly beaten by Bidenko (despite knocking him down in the 2nd) before finally catching him again in the very last round.

[cross_trainer]

I didn't say anything bad about that win. I said it was a good win over a decent prospect. I don't think the win is anything mind blowing or anything. A good win over a good undefeated prospect. I have always been a bit suspicious of Virchis since he was being soundly beaten by Bidenko (despite knocking him down in the 2nd) before finally catching him again in the very last round.

I know you didn't say anything bad about it--I was not implying that you did. I simply consider him a better fighter than you do, although I acknowledge that Chagaev did not defeat him decisively.

He's a slight rung below Samuel Peter at the moment, but he's the same sort of fighter...and I could see him beating Peter in a trading-match.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Virchis is now ranked like 3rd by the WBC>

Truth is he is no different then Peter.
He lost to a champ just like Peter has but other then that their records are complete shit (in fact i would even argue Virchis's is a bit better even though he robbed Sprott of a win)
Well, I disagree that Virchis and Peter are identical. I really don't see the reasoning for that. Sam Peter's wins over James Toney are far better than anything that Virchis has done. Sam Peter is also fighting Maskaev next, so we will have our answers then. Also, Peter is ranked #2 by Ring Mag right now... so I definitely would consider a win over Sam Peter quite a bit higher than a win over Virchis.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I know you didn't say anything bad about it--I was not implying that you did. I simply consider him a better fighter than you do, although I acknowledge that Chagaev did not defeat him decisively.

He's a slight rung below Samuel Peter at the moment, but he's the same sort of fighter...and I could see him beating Peter in a trading-match.
Virchis in my opinion is a pretty slow power puncher with pretty decent timing on his shots. His timing is better than Peter's, but he is less explosive than Peter is. Peter has a proven granite chin, and has outboxed a master boxer the likes of James Toney. On the other hand Virchis was being soundly outboxed by Bidenko for 11 rounds, and even Novi pointed out that he was given a gift against Sprott. I definitely don't see either of those guys hanging in there like that against Sam Peter.

On the other hand I don't overrated Peter either. Let's see him vs Maskaev, and how that works out. I was impressed with Sam Peter in his knockouts, and not so impressed with him in a few other fights. However, the reality is that the only person to outbox him, or to beat him is Wladimir Klitschko... so that says a lot about the man. Peter's comp may not be the best, but he normally dispatched with his opponents the way that he should have done.

[Shake]

You know, if Wlad's no good, than no-one in the entire heavyweight division is any good. We have to be careful to not become too cynical or jaded -- any fighter dreams of being the best in their division. I feel like Wlad's criticasters are saying 'well, you're the best, but that's still not saying very much'.

I believe Wlad will unify. He'll always have a 'Hearns'-like chin, that comes with his build, but he has the offensive tools to do it. But he can't do it all tomorrow -- give him some time. The fights will be made when they'll be made.

I hope in time a big talent will rise up to provide Klitschko with a super-match in the future. Sadly, I think Povetkin's too short, though he could make him uncomfortable up close. We'll see after Povetkin further proves himself.

[1lehudson]

I say we scrap every single heavyweight out there today and start over. It dont matter really who fights who cuz they all suck:smoke