Could Ray Leonard KO Marlon Starling?

[redrooster]

I think so what do you think? I'm talking if Ray Leonard hadn't retired and was content to stay in his division, one of the remaining fighters he may have faced may have been Starling. Starling was mostly a defensive fighter but that wouldn't have saved him. 15 rounds is a long time when Ray Leonard is trying to rip your head off. Leonard by KO in 14

[Sister Sledge]

I think so what do you think? I'm talking if Ray Leonard hadn't retired and was content to stay in his division, one of the remaining fighters he may have faced may have been Starling. Starling was mostly a defensive fighter but that wouldn't have saved him. 15 rounds is a long time when Ray Leonard is trying to rip your head off. Leonard by KO in 14

The only way Starling could get kayoed is after the bell

[redrooster]

If he could stop Wilfred why not Starling?

[bill poster]

Starling was a great boxer. Leonard only just stopped Benitez, Hearns.

[abraq]

Plausible, but I don't think so.

[Sister Sledge]

Starling had a great chin and was one of the best defensive fighters ever. He was so hard to hit. The only time I saw him hurt was when Vaca hit him after the bell. He fought many big hitters and never went down or was hurt. Leonard was a great fighter with a killer instinct, but Starling would be too smart to leave himself open and go to war with SRL.

[red cobra]

Starling was an underrated defensive whiz, who, in my opinion would have escaped a ko by Leonard, but would have lost a decision.

[JohnThomas1]

Just as a tidbit Eddie Futch rated Starling one of the two or three best defensive fighters in the world at one point.

[Mantequilla]

Just as a tidbit Eddie Futch rated Starling one of the two or three best defensive fighters in the world at one point.

He was.Along with zapata and Kalambay, he was the best of the defensive focused stylists who had their peak years during the 1980s.

[mr. magoo]

Starling's incredible defense and stamina would take him the distance here, but Ray wins a rather wide decision.

[Holmes' Jab]

He could maybe force a stoppage very late on via accumulation, but Ray UD seems the best bet. :good

[Vantage_West]

If he could stop Wilfred why not Starling?that was more due to the cut on the head not actualy knocked out

[biglads]

I'd go along with the majority here.

The Magic Man had a great defence, but I see a fight between them going the way of Leonard by a wide decision in a boring fight.

[Sonny Carson]

Starling was hard to hit and hurt but Curry did have him in trouble in there second fight I believe.

[JohnThomas1]

If he could stop Wilfred why not Starling?

Starling isn't quite as good, but he is certainly a bit more durable.

[bumdujour]

hypothetically yes. but the odds are long against it imo.

[JohnThomas1]

He was.Along with zapata and Kalambay, he was the best of the defensive focused stylists who had their peak years during the 1980s.

Agreed, and Futch bracketed him with Spinks, who later showed excellent evasive skill, even if a little awkward looking. Another brilliant defensive maestro was Eddie Mustafa Muahammad.

[Lobotomy]

I also believe the Magic Man goes the distance here. There were instances where Ray was unable to hurt the opponents he hit (Duran, Geraldo, Shields), and at Starling's best he had as dedicated and secure a defensive guard as anybody. Defensively skilled fighters like Benitez, Duran (in Montreal) and Shields were able to make him miss often, indicating that SRL was tipping off his attacks as they began.

[Sister Sledge]

Starling could have been a much better fighter if he was more aggressive. He loved defense too much. He did make fighters look bad, but also at the expense of his offense. He would marvel at making the guy miss, or blocking the guys punch, but the other guy would outwork him. Starling should have only had three losses on his record: The second Curry fight, the Michael Nunn fight, and the loss to Maurice Blocker, which he could have won.

[mr. magoo]

Starling should have only had three losses on his record: The second Curry fight, the Michael Nunn fight, and the loss to Maurice Blocker, which he could have won.

Yeah, one fight that I can think of that he should not have lost was his 1988 meeting with a Columbian named Thomas Molinares. I remember watching that fight 20 years ago on HBO, and seeing Starling dominate him through 6 rounds. At the sound of the bell, Molinares launched a punch that caused Starling to fall, and twisting an ankle or something in the process. Much to his shagrin, Starling had to be carried out of the arena on a stretcher. The bout was initially ruled as a loss, but I see on boxrec that it has since been deemed as a no contest. Nevertheless, Starling's WBC title was gone.

[dpw417]

I think Ray would definitely get Starling's attention with some combinations...he might even rock him a time or two...and he will get Starling's respect. But Moochie has some moments too, this goes the distance IMO, and Starling would annoy the hell out of Leonard in the process. But it's Leonard by solid UD.

[JohnThomas1]

Starling should have only had three losses on his record: The second Curry fight, the Michael Nunn fight, and the loss to Maurice Blocker, which he could have won.

What about the first Curry fight? He definitely lost that one, and tho many first thought he clowned it away latter knowledge shows us he was probably (i'd say certainly almost) never going to win it.

[Mantequilla]

The first Curry fight was close enough to go either way imo.

[Titan1]

The first Curry fight was close enough to go either way imo.

Could be, I thought Donald just edged him.

[Titan1]

I think Ray could stop Marlon late, but as with the consensus, I think he would win a UD over 15.

[JohnThomas1]

The first Curry fight was close enough to go either way imo.

My memory is Curry winning a close but definite decision. It'd be a good fight to score again.

[redrooster]

I think Ray could stop Marlon late, but as with the consensus, I think he would win a UD over 15.

This is insulting to Leonard. Leonard would use the body assault repeatedly on this dumb ape before going to the head and beating his head into mush. Starling is made to order for guys like Leonard. A man with an anemic offense and little foot movement is asking for trouble against the likes of Leonard, Cuevas, and Norris.

I'm going to watch Starling again when I get the chance. You guys must be watching a different fighter than me but with all those losses to all tomato cans, I don't think so. I just think you're wrong about him and not nearly as keen on talent as me.

[redrooster]

My memory is Curry winning a close but definite decision. It'd be a good fight to score again.

You forgot to mention he was fighting with the flu and Starling still couldnt manage to do enough to get a decision :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What a loser.

[JohnThomas1]

You forgot to mention he was fighting with the flu and Starling still couldnt manage to do enough to get a decision :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: What a loser.

Got the doctors certificate?

:lol:

[redrooster]

Got the doctors certificate?

:lol:

Was discussed on the commentary before and during the bout. Don't you have the tape?

[JohnThomas1]

Was discussed on the commentary before and during the bout. Don't you have the tape?
Probably more a tickle in the throat

;)

[JohnThomas1]

Is that Charles Barkley in your avatar red?

[redrooster]

Is that Charles Barkley in your avatar red?

Roy Jones

[JohnThomas1]

Roy Jones

His hats on crooked.

[scartissue]

Yeah, one fight that I can think of that he should not have lost was his 1988 meeting with a Columbian named Thomas Molinares. I remember watching that fight 20 years ago on HBO, and seeing Starling dominate him through 6 rounds. At the sound of the bell, Molinares launched a punch that caused Starling to fall, and twisting an ankle or something in the process. Much to his shagrin, Starling had to be carried out of the arena on a stretcher. The bout was initially ruled as a loss, but I see on boxrec that it has since been deemed as a no contest. Nevertheless, Starling's WBC title was gone.

Magoo, what happened in that fight was, after the bell ended the 6th round, Starling dropped his guard and began turning to go to his corner while Molinares wound up a killer right hand on the jaw and it was timberrrrrr! There was no ankle twisting, he was simply out. By the time he was revived he had no memory of what had happened. It was comical listening to Larry Merchant's interview with him. Starling was griping about them stopping the fight and Merchant mentioned he was knocked out. Starling says, "Knocked out? I wasn't even down!" Merchant looks at him and says, "Marlon, I think you need to see a tape of the fight!" or something to that effect. But that fight was a ring oddity. In actuality, Starling had an air-tight defense, excellent jaw and was an outstanding counter-puncher. Watch his fight with Lloyd Honeyghan and you will see a study in counter-punching. He was outstnding in that fight. Against Leonard, Ray would be forced into the role of aggressor. When he fought in that mode he was never overly defensive minded and would be open to the counter-punches. I don't believe it would be boring, I don't believe Ray would ever put the hurt on Starling and I believe Ray would take a comfortable decision.

Scartissue

[redrooster]

His hats on crooked.

Like I give a shit.

[markedwardscott]

Starling great on defense and good chin. Had power to keep Leonard at bay.

[Sonny Carson]

Magoo, what happened in that fight was, after the bell ended the 6th round, Starling dropped his guard and began turning to go to his corner while Molinares wound up a killer right hand on the jaw and it was timberrrrrr! There was no ankle twisting, he was simply out. By the time he was revived he had no memory of what had happened. It was comical listening to Larry Merchant's interview with him. Starling was griping about them stopping the fight and Merchant mentioned he was knocked out. Starling says, "Knocked out? I wasn't even down!" Merchant looks at him and says, "Marlon, I think you need to see a tape of the fight!" or something to that effect. But that fight was a ring oddity.
That was one of the funniest interviews I've ever seen in my life. The look on his face when he saw the tape was pure comedy.

[Sonny's jab]

Since when has redrooster rated Ray Leonard higher than the rest of you ??

[mr. magoo]

Magoo, what happened in that fight was, after the bell ended the 6th round, Starling dropped his guard and began turning to go to his corner while Molinares wound up a killer right hand on the jaw and it was timberrrrrr! There was no ankle twisting, he was simply out. By the time he was revived he had no memory of what had happened. It was comical listening to Larry Merchant's interview with him. Starling was griping about them stopping the fight and Merchant mentioned he was knocked out. Starling says, "Knocked out? I wasn't even down!" Merchant looks at him and says, "Marlon, I think you need to see a tape of the fight!" or something to that effect. But that fight was a ring oddity. In actuality, Starling had an air-tight defense, excellent jaw and was an outstanding counter-puncher. Watch his fight with Lloyd Honeyghan and you will see a study in counter-punching. He was outstnding in that fight. Against Leonard, Ray would be forced into the role of aggressor. When he fought in that mode he was never overly defensive minded and would be open to the counter-punches. I don't believe it would be boring, I don't believe Ray would ever put the hurt on Starling and I believe Ray would take a comfortable decision.

Scartissue

As I said before, I haven't seen this fight since it was live 20 years ago, and I was maybe 13 or 14 years old, so I may have forgotten some of the details. The punch landed after the bell, but was reported as already in motion. I remember them showing the replays over and over. Starling as I mentioned before, was carried out of the ring in a stretcher because something happened to his leg in the process of falling down. In either case, the outcome was changed to a no contest, apparently because it was later decided to be an ilegitimate knockout.

I also saw the Honyghan fight live, and yes I agree that his defense was specatacular. He left Honeyghan swolen and battered I believe by the middle of the 9th round or something. It was one of marlon's better performances.

[scartissue]

As I said before, I haven't seen this fight since it was live 20 years ago, and I was maybe 13 or 14 years old, so I may have forgotten some of the details. The punch landed after the bell, but was reported as already in motion. I remember them showing the replays over and over. Starling as I mentioned before, was carried out of the ring in a stretcher because something happened to his leg in the process of falling down. In either case, the outcome was changed to a no contest, apparently because it was later decided to be an ilegitimate knockout.

I also saw the Honyghan fight live, and yes I agree that his defense was specatacular. He left Honeyghan swolen and battered I believe by the middle of the 9th round or something. It was one of marlon's better performances.

I don't remember him going out on a stretcher, but like you said, it's been 20 years and I can't remember either. At the time the punch landed, Larry Hazard was the ref and I have never seen such a case of stubborness in all my life. They showed him the replay, the bell rang, Starling drops his guard and then Molinares cranks up a right. Hazard, digging his heels in deeper says, "No, the punch was in motion!" The commentator says, wait let's show it to you again. Millions viewing it, it was as obvious to everyone watching that he did not wind up until the bell rang, it was not in motion. Hazard just didn't want to admit he blew it and kept saying, it was in motion. He did not relent until the next day when the cameras were aff of him or when maybe his commissioner said, Larry, what are you, an idiot? It was then that it was ruled ano contest. I liked the commentator saying to the camera but right in front of Hazzard, "Well Ladies and gentlemen, the referee has ruled it was in motion when it clearly was not."

Scartissue

[KOTF]

No, but he'd probably win a wide decision in a fight where both combatants are too busy clowning each other rather than actually participating in a fight

[frankenfrank]

I think so what do you think? I'm talking if Ray Leonard hadn't retired and was content to stay in his division, one of the remaining fighters he may have faced may have been Starling. Starling was mostly a defensive fighter but that wouldn't have saved him. 15 rounds is a long time when Ray Leonard is trying to rip your head off. Leonard by KO in 14
1. are you serious ?
(you are one of the biggest leonard haters here)
2. no. curry couldn't twice , breland was stopped , nunn even did not try.
3. i do think leonard could win a medicore decision against him but no stoppage , although it is still more possible than , say , louis winning against vitali klitschko.

[redrooster]

1. are you serious ?
(you are one of the biggest leonard haters here)
2. no. curry couldn't twice , breland was stopped , nunn even did not try.
3. i do think leonard could win a medicore decision against him but no stoppage , although it is still more possible than , say , louis winning against vitali klitschko.


Well, at the time (1982) Ray seemed to be improving still but then again, Starling is one of those guys that's hard to knock out

[MAG1965]

I think so what do you think? I'm talking if Ray Leonard hadn't retired and was content to stay in his division, one of the remaining fighters he may have faced may have been Starling. Starling was mostly a defensive fighter but that wouldn't have saved him. 15 rounds is a long time when Ray Leonard is trying to rip your head off. Leonard by KO in 14Yeah he could have. Those hands near Starlings head were tough for guys to hit, but those were not ATG guys like Leonard or Hearns. Hearns broke Starlings jaw in sparring. I am saying he could have ,but if it were 12 rounds, Ray would have probably won a 12 round decision.

[Boxed Ears]

Red, did someone hijack your account and put this thread up without you realizing it or do you just hate Starling more than Leonard?