Hagler's best and worst performances

[bill poster]

Hagler peaked around 81-82 but he should have shone in his title shot against Vito and Duran nearly managed the upset. Should never have boxed Leonard for the first 4 rds and I cannot argue against that decision, I had Leonard in front by 1. Best performances were Sibson and Hearns and some of his early fights were classics

[Holmes' Jab]

I'd say:

1. Hearns
2. Sibson
3. Mugabi
4. Hamsho
5. Duran

[laxpdx]

Best
1. Sibson
2. Hearns
3. Hamsho (both)
4. Lee
5. Obel
6. Minter
Some of them, anyway

Worst
1. Duran
2. Leonard
3. Roldan
4. Mugabi (I think 82-83 Hagler would've dispensed of him sooner)

[JohnThomas1]

Best - Sibson, Hearns, Hamsho II among many, and i think Scypion was a well fought win too.

Worst - Duran. A previously totally dominant Hagler gets a bit starstruck and puts forth a relative stinker by his standards against a guy with many more dimensions than previous opponents albeit a much smaller one.

[bill poster]

Duran smaller than Hagler? They look virtually the same size which makes me wonder what Hagler would have been like at light middleweight

[Russell]

Hagler looked pretty crappy against Hart from what I remember, considering Briscoe figured the man out and iced him in one.

He looked amazing against Humani.

Homani?

Can't remember how to spell that guys name.

[JohnThomas1]

Duran smaller than Hagler? They look virtually the same size which makes me wonder what Hagler would have been like at light middleweight

Well Hagler was a really solid natural middleweight, Duran fought the equivalent of a standard career at 135 and just above and his greatest weight is of course 135. If that not enough Hagler has 2 1/2' in height and a big 9' in reach. Hagler was a really lean well defined solid middleweight.

[Holmes' Jab]

Worst - Duran. A previously totally dominant Hagler gets a bit starstruck and puts forth a relative stinker by his standards against a guy with many more dimensions than previous opponents albeit a much smaller one.

Surprisingly, I don't think it was that poor a display (once he got to grips of the contest more by the mid-rounds). I've got it 5th on my list of his best wins. It's a big name win whatever way you slice it, against an opponent who posed big stylistic questions, despite fighting above his natural weight.

He could've ended matters earlier perhaps, but put in a safe low-risk performance which was effective enough to get the job done nonethess. It's suppose it depends how you view it.

[Russell]

Hagler also had a lot of respect for Duran, right?

Obviously has to be factored in there, I think.

[brooklyn1550]

BEST
Tony Sibson
Mustafa Hamsho I
Mustafa Hamsho II
Loucif Hamani
Thomas Hearns

WORST
Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Leonard

[Manassa]

Duran as worst performance? Get real.

[mcvey]

Hagler peaked around 81-82 but he should have shone in his title shot against Vito and Duran nearly managed the upset. Should never have boxed Leonard for the first 4 rds and I cannot argue against that decision, I had Leonard in front by 1. Best performances were Sibson and Hearns and some of his early fights were classics
Sibson and Hamsho were clinics ,he looked masterful demolishing Minter too.Worst,well he was way too tentative against Duran,whose head movement and hand speed seemed to non plus him ,and I think he should have been more agressive against Antuofermo,if he wanted the title.

[Holmes' Jab]

Duran as worst performance? Get real.


Yeah, I'm left somewhat baffled by that opinion too. :huh

[My dinner with Conteh]

It's not his worst but it's hardly a contender for best.

[Curtis Lowe]

Minter was his best fight, he looked good in both Hamsho fights also.

Worst fight was the Leonard fight, he got old overnight. There were signs that he was slipping in the Mugabi fight. Richie Sandoval went to watch Hagler in training for the Leonard fight an ask "what's wrong with Marvin"?
Damn shame.

[Robbi]

Best.

1. Sibson
2. Hearns
3. Minter


Worst.

1. Leonard
2. Roldan
3. Duran

[Robot16]

Hagler peaked around 81-82 but he should have shone in his title shot against Vito and Duran nearly managed the upset. Should never have boxed Leonard for the first 4 rds and I cannot argue against that decision, I had Leonard in front by 1. Best performances were Sibson and Hearns and some of his early fights were classics

I have not seen all of his fights, but ones that impressed me were the one with Sibson and the second Mustafa Hamsho fight.

[redrooster]

Minter was his best fight, he looked good in both Hamsho fights also.

Worst fight was the Leonard fight, he got old overnight. There were signs that he was slipping in the Mugabi fight. Richie Sandoval went to watch Hagler in training for the Leonard fight an ask "what's wrong with Marvin"?
Damn shame.

Thanks Curtis. I've been saying the same thing after witnessing for myself the terrible deterioration of Hagler in a sparring session late March 87. For another fighter to make that remark openly is proof postive of everything I've said - and coincides perfectly with my own observation. Now everyone here will have no choice but to acknowledge everything I mentioned the last three years is as John Thomas would call it "spot on".

The Weaver triplets were used to test his reflexes for a few rounds and I concluded the same thing as Richie-that this is not how a fighter should react to his sparring partners-it was pathetic seeing Hagler take ream after ream of flurries and being made a fool of-- by his sparring partners which is why I say he was shot going into the Leonard fight.

The problem is that leonard fans don't like it-they hate it when I bring it up because it takes away from the accomplishment. And they want to say "Leonard employed the right style to beat Marvin-all other fighters employed the wrong tactics" when in fact Leonard was the beneficiary of facing a shot fighter. Leonard fans are the biggest liars on the face of the planet and will say anything to make their man look good, especially lie.


The worst part of the session came from the first two men he sparred with. He did a little better with his last partner but there was nothing positive to speak of coming away from this session.

I'm glad that a professional boxer, world champion spoke up this way. His word carries a lot of clout and gives me credibility also. Anyone who was there to see it has to concluded marvin was shot, tired, inept punching bag while still champion (or 1/3 champion) and had no business in the ring.

[redrooster]

I have not seen all of his fights, but ones that impressed me were the one with Sibson and the second Mustafa Hamsho fight.

The performance (Hamsho 2) was tremendous which I had the pleasure of watching live at MSG.

[Robbi]

Thanks Curtis. I've been saying the same thing after witnessing for myself the terrible deterioration of Hagler in a sparring session late March 87. For another fighter to make that remark openly is proof postive of everything I've said - and coincides perfectly with my own observation. Now everyone here will have no choice but to acknowledge everything I mentioned the last three years is as John Thomas would call it "spot on".

The Weaver triplets were used to test his reflexes for a few rounds and I concluded the same thing as Richie-that this is not how a fighter should react to his sparring partners-it was pathetic seeing Hagler take ream after ream of flurries and being made a fool of-- by his sparring partners which is why I say he was shot going into the Leonard fight.

The problem is that leonard fans don't like it-they hate it when I bring it up because it takes away from the accomplishment. And they want to say "Leonard employed the right style to beat Marvin-all other fighters employed the wrong tactics" when in fact Leonard was the beneficiary of facing a shot fighter. Leonard fans are the biggest liars on the face of the planet and will say anything to make their man look good, especially lie.


The worst part of the session came from the first two men he sparred with. He did a little better with his last partner but there was nothing positive to speak of coming away from this session.

I'm glad that a professional boxer, world champion spoke up this way. His word carries a lot of clout and gives me credibility also. Anyone who was there to see it has to concluded marvin was shot, tired, inept punching bag while still champion (or 1/3 champion) and had no business in the ring.

A very nice way of saying Leonard beat Hagler without actually saying it in those terms. Well done Rooster.

[Robot16]

The performance (Hamsho 2) was tremendous which I had the pleasure of watching live at MSG.


I also liked his fight with Roldan, but it seemed he only took control once Roldan's eye began bothering him, but it was an enjoyable fight nonetheless.

Yeah i had just watched the 2nd Hamsho fight yesterday, while i had watched the first one about a year or 2 ago.
So how was it watching the fight live mate? It would have been awesome, i havnt seen a big fight live yet.

[Sweet Pea]

I like his performance against Hamani. Short but sweet, effortless but flawless.

[Robot16]

I like his performance against Hamani. Short but sweet, effortless but flawless.

Is that the one where Hamani got sent through the ropes?

[Sweet Pea]

Is that the one where Hamani got sent through the ropes?Yep.

bITwa05avrE

[Robot16]

Yep.

bITwa05avrE

Yeah that was another good performance, yeah i wasnt sure if i was thinking of the right fight, but its the same one.

[Stonehands89]

I thought that the Hamani fight was a devestating finish but Hagler was waiting on him too long. The Scypion fight was his best performance in my estimation.

Worst is easily Leonard. Second worst is Mugabi. Hagler was a complex boxer-puncher and that endurance contest with Mugabi was beneath him... it would have been unnecessary 5 years previously.

[Robbi]

I thought that the Hamani fight was a devestating finish but Hagler was waiting on him too long. The Scypion fight was his best performance in my estimation.

Worst is easily Leonard. Second worst is Mugabi. Hagler was a complex boxer-puncher and that endurance contest with Mugabi was beneath him... it would have been unnecessary 5 years previously.

Its a trick question, as straight forward as it seems. Is it strictly performance when asking "what was a fighters best performance" or does it need to be packaged with the quality of opponent when making a decision? I suppose pure performance in some instances when a certain individual makes his choice and other times a bit of both.

Someone could easily come up with Hagler's win over Caveman Lee, and who can argue with that. He destroyed him inside a round with sheer brute strength, accuracy, and power.

[brooklyn1550]

Hagler also had a lot of respect for Duran, right?

Obviously has to be factored in there, I think.

Duran was his idol. He didn't really want to hurt him.

[Sweet Pea]

I thought that the Hamani fight was a devestating finish but Hagler was waiting on him too long. He took him out in the 2nd round.....

He boxed very well, felt him out in the first round, and looked to time him in the 2nd, and the finish was perfect. The second he was hurt he was out of there.

[Robbi]

Duran was his idol. He didn't really want to hurt him.

Hagler had too much self pride for that. And the reason the fight developed the way it did was because of Duran's smart strategy, which fooled everyone. Hagler and the Petronelli's expected Duran to come out aggressive, and as we know, he didn't.

[redrooster]

I also liked his fight with Roldan, but it seemed he only took control once Roldan's eye began bothering him, but it was an enjoyable fight nonetheless.

Yeah i had just watched the 2nd Hamsho fight yesterday, while i had watched the first one about a year or 2 ago.
So how was it watching the fight live mate? It would have been awesome, i havnt seen a big fight live yet.

Its strange the way I happened to see it. I was invited to go to NYC a couple days before the fight but I still wasnt planning to see it even though I knew it was going on at the time. I had gone with my brother to keep my cousin company while he went on job interviews. I arrived I think 3 days before the fight and we didnt stay in the city but across the river so it took me a couple days before I knew my way around.

The morning of the fight I was doing some sightseeing and was heading back to the Port Authority to catch the bus back. I was coming from the Empire State building heading north I think when I caught sight of MSG and it was at that time I started thinking about getting a ticket to the fight.

I didnt even know if I had enough cash on me or if seats were still available. I had something like $25 on me and went up to the window to ask and found there were plenty of seats available and that I could get a cheap seat way up high for $20 so I bought one and returned alone later on.

I wasnt that enthusiastic about seeing this fight and had no idea how it would end. I thought Hagler would decision Mustafa. The press thought Hagler would stop him on cuts late.

If I remember correctly, the main started sometime around midnight because I didnt get get picked up until well after 2 am.

Anyways, the fight was a huge success. I didnt care for any of the Olypians in their debut-I just wanted them to be over with so I that could see Hagler. A lot of things I remember but I will spare you the details.

Once the fight was underway, the impression I got was Hagler was off to a rocky start. He just seemed to be struggling and I actually felt that the Hagler-Hearns fight if there was to be one, was in jeopardy.

The second round seemed to me to be closer than it was on tape for some reason but when Hagler unwinded and deposited Hamsho on the floor, the roof almost came down so I must assume there were many fans there whose sole reason was to come watch Hagler, like myself. But this fight, while not Hagler-hearns, carried some real drama-at least for me it did.

I don't remember seeing Hearns in the ring with Hagler tho. I guess I was too far up in the back.

This was much better than the matches I would watch at the Los Angeles Olympic Auditorium a few years earlier-it's so much better watching a big name fighter, especially when it's a big name fighter you like. The only other fight I would have liked to have seen at the Garden was the Duran-Moore fight the year before.

[redrooster]

A very nice way of saying Leonard beat Hagler without actually saying it in those terms. Well done Rooster.

What are you talking about?

[Robot16]

Its strange the way I happened to see it. I was invited to go to NYC a couple days before the fight but I still wasnt planning to see it even though I knew it was going on at the time. I had gone with my brother to keep my cousin company while he went on job interviews. I arrived I think 3 days before the fight and we didnt stay in the city but across the river so it took me a couple days before I knew my way around.

The morning of the fight I was doing some sightseeing and was heading back to the Port Authority to catch the bus back. I was coming from the Empire State building heading north I think when I caught sight of MSG and it was at that time I started thinking about getting a ticket to the fight.

I didnt even know if I had enough cash on me or if seats were still available. I had something like $25 on me and went up to the window to ask and found there were plenty of seats available and that I could get a cheap seat way up high for $20 so I bought one and returned alone later on.

I wasnt that enthusiastic about seeing this fight and had no idea how it would end. I thought Hagler would decision Mustafa. The press thought Hagler would stop him on cuts late.

If I remember correctly, the main started sometime around midnight because I didnt get get picked up until well after 2 am.

Anyways, the fight was a huge success. I didnt care for any of the Olypians in their debut-I just wanted them to be over with so I that could see Hagler. A lot of things I remember but I will spare you the details.

Once the fight was underway, the impression I got was Hagler was off to a rocky start. He just seemed to be struggling and I actually felt that the Hagler-Hearns fight if there was to be one, was in jeopardy.

The second round seemed to me to be closer than it was on tape for some reason but when Hagler unwinded and deposited Hamsho on the floor, the roof almost came down so I must assume there were many fans there whose sole reason was to come watch Hagler, like myself. But this fight, while not Hagler-hearns, carried some real drama-at least for me it did.

I don't remember seeing Hearns in the ring with Hagler tho. I guess I was too far up in the back.

This was much better than the matches I would watch at the Los Angeles Olympic Auditorium a few years earlier-it's so much better watching a big name fighter, especially when it's a big name fighter you like. The only other fight I would have liked to have seen at the Garden was the Duran-Moore fight the year before.

Ok mate it sounded good.

Yeah i like it when you dont plan for things to happen, and you just get around to doing them.

[JohnThomas1]

Yeah, I'm left somewhat baffled by that opinion too. :huh

Maybe not worst, but when i have plenty of time i will describe at length why i think he was totally ordinary that night.

I remember the fight as it was at the time, the pre fight hype, the Hagler hype and the massive amount of respect Hagler lost before making most people forget with a great effort vs Hearns. I lived it. More than one great observer said they should have taken away the "Marvellous" monicker from Hagler and placed it in front of Duran.

[RoccoMarciano]

Maybe not worst, but when i have plenty of time i will describe at length why i think he was totally ordinary that night.

I remember the fight as it was at the time, the pre fight hype, the Hagler hype and the massive amount of respect Hagler lost before making most people forget with a great effort vs Hearns. I lived it. More than one great observer said they should have taken away the "Marvellous" monicker from Hagler and placed it in front of Duran.

Duran did a great job in his fight with Hagler!

A lot of people knock Duran for all the wrong reasons.

[Manassa]

It's not his worst but it's hardly a contender for best.

Then it's in the middle, so it shouldn't be in this thread.

[Manassa]

The Scypion fight was his best performance in my estimation.

You won't see a boxer looking much more like a boxer than in that fight, Hagler moved flawlessly. Didn't land as many clean punches as usual though and the finish wasn't convincing, so I wouldn't rate it in the top five.

I think I would select the second Obelmejias fight as Hagler's best, but there's no real reason to choose that over any of the others from that era. Hagler often performed very well.

[JohnThomas1]

Then it's in the middle, so it shouldn't be in this thread.

Next time i'll ask for your royal permission to post an opinion eh?

:lol:

[RoccoMarciano]

Next time i'll ask for your royal permission to post an opinion eh?

:lol:

F him and his royalty :smoke

He looks better backing a tomato can HW "champ" :good

[Manassa]

Next time i'll ask for your royal permission to post an opinion eh?

:lol:

If you think it was Hagler's worst performance then you have permission to post.

You'd still be wrong, of course.

[Manassa]

F him and his royalty :smoke

He looks better backing a tomato can HW "champ" :good

Sorry, what?

[RoccoMarciano]

Sorry, what?
What? You want me to add three letters to the F?

[Manassa]

What? You want me to add three letters to the F?

No, I want you to explain the heavyweight part.

[RoccoMarciano]

No, I want you to explain the heavyweight part.

Just looking at your avatar/username... or are there other classic boxers from Manassa?

Regarding those extra three :lol:

[JohnThomas1]

If you think it was Hagler's worst performance then you have permission to post.

You'd still be wrong, of course.

I've already posted :good

I'll add later an in depth personal analysis, most will still disagree but you just never know, i mightn't end up totally alone in my views.

There's no substitute for "living" the time, and i am envious of the likes of a Johnny Garfield.

[Manassa]

Just looking at your avatar/username... or are there other classic boxers from Manassa?

Regarding those extra three :lol:

When do I ever post on Jack Dempsey?

I live in Manassa...

[Manassa]

There's no substitute for "living" the time, and i am envious of the likes of a Johnny Garfield.

There certainly isn't, but you can understand I know Hagler's filmed fights like the back of my hand; I would never say Duran was a good performance, but it was far from his worst. He under achieved there, perhaps, but it's not like he was battered like against Willie Monroe.

[JohnThomas1]

There certainly isn't, but you can understand I know Hagler's filmed fights like the back of my hand; I would never say Duran was a good performance, but it was far from his worst. He under achieved there, perhaps, but it's not like he was battered like against Willie Monroe.
True, but i am taking "reputation", aura, experience, true ability at the time and expectation into account and the Hagler vs Monroe and Duran cannot be compared in any of these categories.

[RoccoMarciano]

When do I ever post on Jack Dempsey?

I live in Manassa...

I suppose you have posted a time or two regarding the lighter weights? Can't say I've noticed to be honest. Did you used to go by M M. or something like that?

[Stonehands89]

He took him out in the 2nd round.....

He boxed very well, felt him out in the first round, and looked to time him in the 2nd, and the finish was perfect. The second he was hurt he was out of there.
Hagler could have taken him out in 20 seconds. Watch the Scypion fight. I think it is a better display of skill and it has a good finish too.

[Stonehands89]

You won't see a boxer looking much more like a boxer than in that fight, Hagler moved flawlessly. Didn't land as many clean punches as usual though and the finish wasn't convincing, so I wouldn't rate it in the top five.

I think I would select the second Obelmejias fight as Hagler's best, but there's no real reason to choose that over any of the others from that era. Hagler often performed very well.
The late 70s and early 80s were full of great performances. The Scypion fight strikes me as his peak fight and I don't remember him performing better after that fight. Granted Scypion was rushed through the ranks, but he got a beating throughout. I found that beating the most aesthetic of all in Hagler's career.

Obel was undefeated for long streaks before both Hagler fights and was a worthy #1 contender. The Minter fight is also something special, at least for its sheer brutality, and the way the whole torrid event seemed appropriate for his "angry champion" image.

[redrooster]

Maybe not worst, but when i have plenty of time i will describe at length why i think he was totally ordinary that night.

I remember the fight as it was at the time, the pre fight hype, the Hagler hype and the massive amount of respect Hagler lost before making most people forget with a great effort vs Hearns. I lived it. More than one great observer said they should have taken away the "Marvellous" monicker from Hagler and placed it in front of Duran.

What did you think of him in the Hearns fight-did it live up to expectations?

[Robbi]

What did you think of him in the Hearns fight-did it live up to expectations?

Hagler was a man possessed that night. Steel chin, superb handspeed, strength, and the heart of a Lion.

He lived up to expectations and more.

[Mantequilla]

I thought Scypion folded very easily.The ending shots did not look very damaging especially compared to most of Marvin's other knockouts.

Still, a great performance on hagler's part.

[Bummy Davis]

Vito Antufermo made him look bad in there 1st fight and went after him in the 13th rd and said come on lets fight and blasted Marvin along the ropes
Hagler did not look good vs Duran

Leonard made him look less than potent

The Hearns fight+++, the Mugabi, the Fuli O fights, Hamsho,Sibson,Minter

[TBooze]

Hagler peaked before he won the World Championship IMO; his best performances being:

1: MonroeIII
2: Colbert
3: AntuofermoII
4: MonroeII
5: Sibson
6: Hart

His worse:

1: MonroeI
2: Leonard
3: WattsI
4: AutuofermoI
5: SealesII
6: Mugabi

[heerko koois]

Best..Hearns , Minter , Caveman Lee ....worst ..Leonard , Duran.....

[mcvey]

When do I ever post on Jack Dempsey?

I live in Manassa...
I didnt know Colarado was in the UK.Question,do you ever go to the fights ,then come home and watch the taped fight?It might surprise you how different things can look ringside as opposed to TV,it often did me.

[Manassa]

I suppose you have posted a time or two regarding the lighter weights?

More like I've posted once or twice about heavyweights. They bore me to death nowadays.

[Manassa]

I didnt know Colarado was in the UK.Question,do you ever go to the fights ,then come home and watch the taped fight?It might surprise you how different things can look ringside as opposed to TV,it often did me.

Yes, often.

[dpw417]

Hagler's performances in the Minter, Sibson, Obel, and Scypion fights were awesome...One thing that still stands out in my mind, was Hagler's ability to twist his punches at the end against Minter, to tear skin...yikes! Boxing is such a friendly sport!

[ron u.k.]

he gave a masterclass against sibbo,who was no slouch.up on his toes switch hitting,cluster punching he gave tony the respect of largely fighting on the outside for 4 or 5 rounds before going in for the kill,and finishing sibbo off.

[Arminius]

Leonard was his worst. He looked stale. Leonard would through a quick flurry of punches and get a nonreponse from Hagler. They did not hurt Hagler but they made him look bad.