why is hopkins a overated bum

[mad-23]

i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell

[brown bomber]

i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell

Awesome post you really know your stuff. Well done.

[D.Haye-no1-p4p]

i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell

Shut the fuck up.

[Boro chris]

i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell



Well thats it I'm convinced!:thumbsup

[Claypole]

i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell
Please use English.

[pjo479]

i reckon your one of the millions of british fans who thought hatton would beat mayweather as well or you just a plain out crackhead

[rooq]

i believe that bernard hopkins is going to get hit so many times that he is going to feel like he is surrounded. he is not in the same league as calzaghe, who is a legend. if you would like to see how good joe is, watch him against mitchell.


fixed that for you. :blood

[Grievesy]

I do agree with you that Joe will win. But i couldn't understand what you just posted.

[dan-b]

i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell



Go back to the general section.

[Claypole]

Go back to the general section.Or back to school. I know there is no requirement here for perfect spelling and grammar, but I have noticed recently that some people make no effort whatsoever.
Not ideal if you're trying to converse with internet people.

[dan-b]

Or back to school. I know there is no requirement here for perfect spelling and grammar, but I have noticed recently that some people make no effort whatsoever.
Not ideal if you're trying to converse with internet people.

Yup that as well. I just advised the same illiterate fool, on his Skelton thread, to change his username & linger for a bit because he's already made a prat of himself.

[TheChamp1000]

i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell

Lol I dont know what I expected when I seen a post heading "why is hopkins a overated bum" but upon reading the comment from the op. it somehow all seems to fit into place. Weird? :patsch

I hope by slapping my head in this manner the words from the op. will form into some kind of structure. ......nope, .......nope :patsch

better keep trying with this one :patsch :patsch :patsch

[Farmboxer]

I don't think Hopkins is overrated. Calzaghe will have to fight the provincial judges are ref, so it will make it more difficult, still, he should win big, but Hopkins is still dangerous.

[jabber the gut]

:nono I think people may be giving bernard a bit too little credit.he is a very good wily old fighter he will give joe a good fight.i still think joe will win but give the guy a bit more credit .

[Beatboxer]

That was a shocking post.

Why is Hopkins overrated? I can't be bothered writing an essay but the obvious points are that his best wins during his 'legendary' reign at Middleweight are over 'the loss whore' Glen Johnson and a couple of blown up welters by the names of Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya. He also lost to the two best middleweights he ever faced, RJJ and Taylor.

Now to his light heavyweight campaign. He beat Antonio Tarver to gain almost universal recognition as the top man in the divison. OK a good win. However lets not pretend that Tarver was a great fighter. First Eric Harding had his way with him. In fairness Tarver avenged that loss and gave a weight drained and sickly looking Roy Jones a good fight but still ultimately loss. That being said, everyone recognised that superman Roy was getting older and perhaps this might have been the start of the inevitable slide that afflicts all fighters....the oncoming of age. Many on ESB picked Tarver i recall. So Tarver catches him and knocks him out. Good win nonetheless and Tarver has momentum which he subsequently squanders by losing to Johnson. Then he beates Johnson in a rematch and faces Hopkins and loses again. Got a bit of a habit of doing that that Tarver.

So here Hopkins is recognised as the top man at LHW. And what does this big shot do? Pretend hes going to climb to Heavyweight to regain Americas honour to get some publicity then signs to fight a blown up Junior Middleweight at LHW, struggles in sports but ultimately records a win.

Hopkins has been overrated, grossly overrated since late 2001. Im glad though. Because when Calzaghe defeats him by a wide margin he SHOULD get a whole ton of credit by the Hopkins sackswingers and the American media alike. However, we know that won't happen because they have their ready made excuses of 'hes old', 'hes past his prime' and to the more analytical naysayers 'we all already knew that Hopkins had lost to the best fighters he ever faced....it was sooooo obvious Calzaghe was going to whoop him...JC has to fight someone with a pulse fight Dawson!' and of course if he fights and beats Dawson hes just a prospect who fought nobody and was too inexperienced.

Anyway, for the reasons ive mentioned Hopkins is overrated. Does not mean hes not a very good fighter but i can't help but laugh when people mention him alongside the likes of Monzon and Hagler at middleweight....hes a tier below.

[brown bomber]

That was a shocking post.

Why is Hopkins overrated? I can't be bothered writing an essay but the obvious points are that his best wins during his 'legendary' reign at Middleweight are over 'the loss whore' Glen Johnson and a couple of blown up welters by the names of Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya. He also lost to the two best middleweights he ever faced, RJJ and Taylor.

Now to his light heavyweight campaign. He beat Antonio Tarver to gain almost universal recognition as the top man in the divison. OK a good win. However lets not pretend that Tarver was a great fighter. First Eric Harding had his way with him. In fairness Tarver avenged that loss and gave a weight drained and sickly looking Roy Jones a good fight but still ultimately loss. That being said, everyone recognised that superman Roy was getting older and perhaps this might have been the start of the inevitable slide that afflicts all fighters....the oncoming of age. Many on ESB picked Tarver i recall. So Tarver catches him and knocks him out. Good win nonetheless and Tarver has momentum which he subsequently squanders by losing to Johnson. Then he beates Johnson in a rematch and faces Hopkins and loses again. Got a bit of a habit of doing that that Tarver.

So here Hopkins is recognised as the top man at LHW. And what does this big shot do? Pretend hes going to climb to Heavyweight to regain Americas honour to get some publicity then signs to fight a blown up Junior Middleweight at LHW, struggles in sports but ultimately records a win.

Hopkins has been overrated, grossly overrated since late 2001. Im glad though. Because when Calzaghe defeats him by a wide margin he SHOULD get a whole ton of credit by the Hopkins sackswingers and the American media alike. However, we know that won't happen because they have their ready made excuses of 'hes old', 'hes past his prime' and to the more analytical naysayers 'we all already knew that Hopkins had lost to the best fighters he ever faced....it was sooooo obvious Calzaghe was going to whoop him...JC has to fight someone with a pulse fight Dawson!' and of course if he fights and beats Dawson hes just a prospect who fought nobody and was too inexperienced.

Anyway, for the reasons ive mentioned Hopkins is overrated. Does not mean hes not a very good fighter but i can't help but laugh when people mention him alongside the likes of Monzon and Hagler at middleweight....hes a tier below. Wow you must have a LOT of time on your hands :lol:

[brown bomber]

Hopkins is just a good example of repeating something enough that people accept it as the truth.

He's a good fighter, but his resume amounts to shit without the wins against the two welterweights and the loss to Roy Jones Jr. :yikes Incorrect.

[brown bomber]

Why do you say that, Jeff? I really rate him- He has improved so much over the years and gone from a so-so brawler to a classy and clever professional. The De La Hoya win is often poo'ed on but lets remember no one else has ever come close to stopping him (acratch the two early career knockdowns). He also outboxed the golden boy for long periods. Trinidad was THE man to beat- he had beaten everyone previously out of sight with the exception of De La Hoya. And was coming off the oblitiration of the still useful William Joppy. Hopkins mastered him- out boxing and then out fighting him. Add to that good, world class names like John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, Simon Brown, Antwun Echols, Keith Holmes and William Joppy and you don't have a bad middleweight reign at all. Tarver was the linear light heavyweight champion so regardless of his performances against the capable Eric Harding he was still the man at light heavy- Hopkins completely outclassed him. Finally add on the Wright win, where he largely dominated a fighter who has beaten some of the biggest names in the sport for the last 10 years and you have a cracking resume which is pretty much unmatched outside of Mayweather.

[Beatboxer]

I really rate him- He has improved so much over the years and gone from a so-so brawler to a classy and clever professional. The De La Hoya win is often poo'ed on but lets remember no one else has ever come close to stopping him (acratch the two early career knockdowns). He also outboxed the golden boy for long periods. Trinidad was THE man to beat- he had beaten everyone previously out of sight with the exception of De La Hoya. And was coming off the oblitiration of the still useful William Joppy. Hopkins mastered him- out boxing and then out fighting him. Add to that good, world class names like John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, Simon Brown, Antwun Echols, Keith Holmes and William Joppy and you don't have a bad middleweight reign at all. Tarver was the linear light heavyweight champion so regardless of his performances against the capable Eric Harding he was still the man at light heavy- Hopkins completely outclassed him. Finally add on the Wright win, where he largely dominated a fighter who has beaten some of the biggest names in the sport for the last 10 years and you have a cracking resume which is pretty much unmatched outside of Mayweather.

It was hardly a great achievement outboxing DLH at middleweight.

Felix Sturm did a pretty comprehensive job of that himself.

Hopkins reign at middleweight is very comparable to JCs at SMW...without the win against someone the caliber of Mikkel Kessler of course.

[Beatboxer]

Wow you must have a LOT of time on your hands :lol:

Nah mate just got a fair bit of recent history at my finger tips.

And I can touch type.

[brown bomber]

It was hardly a great achievement outboxing DLH at middleweight.

Felix Sturm did a pretty comprehensive job of that himself. Fair point though i'd say Sturm performance was overrated. He was just more competitive then expected.

[brown bomber]

Hopkins reign at middleweight is very comparable to JCs at SMW...without the win against someone the caliber of Mikkel Kessler of course. But when you follow up with this- sarcasm aside- you ruin your initial point.

[Beatboxer]

But when you follow up with this- sarcasm aside- you ruin your initial point.

Not really.

Hopkins fans rag on JC's record all the time...yet for all your Echols, Holmes, Johnsons, Joppys Lipseys etc Calzaghe has Reid, Mitchell, Eubank, Brewer, Sheika etc on his...a similar class of fighter and yet Hopkins fans use exactly these sort of fighters to boost his resume when people diss it on the grounds that his two most notable wins at the weight were over two blown up welters...

People attack JC over the fact that he fought the odd Tocker Pudwill, Will McIntyre calibre of fighter. But Hopkins also farted around in the early stages of his undisputed reign taking on the likes of Daniels and Hakkar.

Hopkins however unlike JC did not defeat a fighter the calibre of Kessler. He also lost to the two best fighters he ever fought at that weight.

My point is he had a good solid MW reign. What annoys me is when people buy into this nonsensical crap that he has a record to rival the likes of Hagler and Monzon...or that he has a vastly superior resume to Calzaghe...which is also bollocks. They have similar records but to me JC taking down the two undefeated up and comers that were supposed to rule the division in Lacy and Kessler infact gives him the edge for me.

Hopkins record is overrated, Calzaghes underrated.

That is my point.

[brown bomber]

Not really.

Hopkins fans rag on JC's record all the time...yet for all your Echols, Holmes, Johnsons, Joppys Lipseys etc Calzaghe has Reid, Mitchell, Eubank, Brewer, Sheika etc on his...a similar class of fighter and yet Hopkins fans use exactly these sort of fighters to boost his resume when people diss it on the grounds that his two most notable wins at the weight were over two blown up welters...

People attack JC over the fact that he fought the odd Tocker Pudwill, Will McIntyre calibre of fighter. But Hopkins also farted around in the early stages of his undisputed reign taking on the likes of Daniels and Hakkar.

Hopkins however unlike JC did not defeat a fighter the calibre of Kessler. He also lost to the two best fighters he ever fought at that weight.

My point is he had a good solid MW reign. What annoys me is when people buy into this nonsensical crap that he has a record to rival the likes of Hagler and Monzon...or that he has a vastly superior resume to Calzaghe...which is also bollocks. They have similar records but to me JC taking down the two undefeated up and comers that were supposed to rule the division in Lacy and Kessler infact gives him the edge for me.

Hopkins record is overrated, Calzaghes underrated.

That is my point. Like your points... Really well argued but IMO hopkins win over trinidad, the air apparent (wrong spelling i know, who cares!) gives him the edge. I also think that Hopkins wins the fight- though of course I want Joe to pull it off. One things for certain the winner when they meet is an ATG no arguments. :good

[brown bomber]

Also Danials was a very good fighter and looked to be a future p4p entrant until Julio Cesar Vasquez turned him into a happy meal for the WBA light middle title. He was quite superb before that loss.

[Beatboxer]

Like your points... Really well argued but IMO hopkins win over trinidad, the air apparent (wrong spelling i know, who cares!) gives him the edge. I also think that Hopkins wins the fight- though of course I want Joe to pull it off. One things for certain the winner when they meet is an ATG no arguments. :good

Cheers mate.

And yea of course, there is arguments for and against both in terms of who is actually going to win the fight and many guys who's boxing knowledge I respect have made convincing arguments in favour of Hopkins...I disagree but I still acknowledge their points and respect their opinions.

You have that totally right mate...its going to be a great occasion at the very least when they go head to head and there is absoultely no doubt that whoever pulls it off does indeed go down in history as a true all time great and proper legend.

[Smirf]

whatever the outcome a prime calzaghe wouldnt stand a chance against a prime hopkins it will be a great fight though

[Beatboxer]

whatever the outcome a prime calzaghe wouldnt stand a chance against a prime hopkins it will be a great fight though

Ahhhh here comes yet another newbie marking their entry to the forum by making a big outlandish statement :rofl

Even those if you believe that a prime Hopkins beats a prime JC(which many do) to say that he wouldn't stand a chance is one of the most ridiculous and stupid things ive ever heard on this forum and thats saying something.

Your talking about the greatest Super Middleweight of all time, a man who has never lost a fight, a man who has shown he can adapt time and time again in the ring, a man who has beaten a variety of styles and fighters.

Hopkins might well be the best opponent hes ever faced and a young one might well win but ill tell you what its by no means a sure thing and theres no fucking way in this earth it would be easy...JC at the very least has a good chance of victory.

[brown bomber]

whatever the outcome a prime calzaghe wouldnt stand a chance against a prime hopkins it will be a great fight though Define Hopkins prime and i'll be impressed. When did he peak?

[Beatboxer]

Define Hopkins prime and i'll be impressed. When did he peak?

I was actually considering putting that question to you earlier as you seem to be a big fan.

When exactly was Hopkins prime and when did it begin and end?

It is far from clear cut thats for sure! No one can deny the guys longetivity!

[brown bomber]

The Trinidad win was good, but it's clear that Trinidad cannot operate effectively about LMW - so Hopkins' win will always be in light of that. he was a significantly bigger man, much the same as with De La Hoya.

Hopkins had great skills and is a great tactical thinker, but neither of those guys was proven in any real way at MW. De La Hoya had clearly lost to Sturm already.

I can't see Hopkins having any of the skillset to beat Joe right now. He's built this reputation off of beating Tarver recently, which was a good win, but Tarver was far from his best in that fight. A good win, but not that impressive.

And his performanc against Winky was awful. Flux :-(

Trinidad beat both Joppy and Mayorga at middleweight.... Two of his most potent displays so that discounts that statement.

De La Hoya BEAT Sturm pretty handily for me it was subjective fight and was not impressive but theres no way he won the fight... Don't get all german on me!

Hopkins was prepared to fight De La Hoya at light middleweight but De La Hoya wanted to move up.

As for the Winky and Tarver fights.... Hopkins is a thorough professional and shut Taver down by leading with the right hand and constantly keeping on the move away from Tarvers left. Tarver wasn't at his best because Hopkins punched his head in...

Hopkins wasn't pretty against Wright because his gameplan was to drag Wright into a rough maul so that Wrights awesome jab and water tight defence were practically ineffective at the range Hopkins was engaging. Hopkins is a master tactician- write him off all you want but I gurantee he will suprise all those who write him off come fight night.

[brown bomber]

I was actually considering putting that question to you earlier as you seem to be a big fan.

When exactly was Hopkins prime and when did it begin and end?

It is far from clear cut thats for sure! No one can deny the guys longetivity!:good Lets see if the newbie knows his stuff first!

[brown bomber]

Flux for me he is a legend I could go into why Mayorga is not quite as bad as you think but lets just leave it as you don't rate Hopkins but i do! :-)

[dan-b]

I see Pete Doherty is at the Hopkins bashing again. I have neither the time nor inclination to read your various anti Hopkins rants in this thread, however, it's so obvious you are nothing but a Calzaghe fanboy you merely discredit yourself. I'm pretty confident where historians will place these two fighters in relation to each other regardless of the outcome of their fight. I think you know this hence your incessant derisory comments.

Frankly I think it's sad mate. I have intentionally refrained from getting involved in any of these sorts of threads recently but seeing your little anti Bernard tirade irked me enough to renage on that policy. Keep it up, it's obvious you have an agenda & I will continue to find amusement in your ignorance. I think you, and many others on here, live vicariously through Joe. Lets hope for your sake he doesn't let you down.

[Beatboxer]

I see Pete Doherty is at the Hopkins bashing again. I have neither the time nor inclination to read your various anti Hopkins rants in this thread, however, it's so obvious you are nothing but a Calzaghe fanboy you merely discredit yourself. I'm pretty confident where historians will place these two fighters in relation to each other regardless of the outcome of their fight. I think you know this hence your incessant derisory comments.

Frankly I think it's sad mate. I have intentionally refrained from getting involved in any of these sorts of threads recently but seeing your little anti Bernard tirade irked me enough to renage on that policy. Keep it up, it's obvious you have an agenda & I will continue to find amusement in your ignorance. I think you, and many others on here, live vicariously through Joe. Lets hope for your sake he doesn't let you down.

Ahhhh good old Dan-B and his excuses for not entering a debate.

If you seen my other posts in this thread you will see I acknowledge and respect the opinions of others in terms of the Bernard Hopkins, Joe Calzaghe debate. I just don't happen to agree with it and I put forward my own opinions to see what others think.

If that upsets you, fair enough. What I found amusing was how you managed to contradict yourself in your response by first saying that my so called 'rant' annoyed you then stating later on that you found such 'ignorance' to be 'amusing'. I think you try to cast yourself as the role of some patronising boxing expert that looks on patronisingly with a slight knowing smile at all these JC fan boys who know nothing about boxing.

Mate, you ain't that guy. You can't even properly debate on the subject of your favourite fighter because you run for the hills whenever anyones says something you don't like. You wait for other more knowledgable fans that happen to admire Hopkins to refute any criticism that comes his way because you can't do it yourself.

That is amusing. Also, I thought we had a truce on this subject and we were going to wait until after the fight had taken place to speak any further on it? Ive been ignoring your posts despite their obvious bias.

[brown bomber]

Ahhhh good old Dan-B and his excuses for not entering a debate.

If you seen my other posts in this thread you will see I acknowledge and respect the opinions of others in terms of the Bernard Hopkins, Joe Calzaghe debate. I just don't happen to agree with it and I put forward my own opinions to see what others think.

If that upsets you, fair enough. What I found amusing was how you managed to contradict yourself in your response by first saying that my so called 'rant' annoyed you then stating later on that you found such 'ignorance' to be 'amusing'. I think you try to cast yourself as the role of some patronising boxing expert that looks on patronisingly with a slight knowing smile at all these JC fan boys who know nothing about boxing.

Mate, you ain't that guy. You can't even properly debate on the subject of your favourite fighter because you run for the hills whenever anyones says something you don't like. You wait for other more knowledgable fans that happen to admire Hopkins to refute any criticism that comes his way because you can't do it yourself.

That is amusing. Also, I thought we had a truce on this subject and we were going to wait until after the fight had taken place to speak any further on it? Ive been ignoring your posts despite their obvious bias. Why does he call you Pete Doherty :lol:

[Beatboxer]

Why does he call you Pete Doherty :lol:

The avatar I believe. :yep

Dan B really gets flustered over the Joe Calzaghe, Hopkins debate.

He just can't stand when people have the audacity to question Hopkins resume and/or speculate that JC's might just might be on par or even better!

When you try and have a little friendly debate with him he runs for the hills shouting as he goes about you being 'an irrational, ignorant Calzaghe fan boy'....when hes the one who never ever backs up his point of view at all.

[brown bomber]

I was actually considering putting that question to you earlier as you seem to be a big fan.

When exactly was Hopkins prime and when did it begin and end?

It is far from clear cut thats for sure! No one can deny the guys longetivity! Seeming as newb has unsuprisingly ignored this challenge I'm going for it.... Having watched practically all of Hopkins fights I would say that Hopkins' peak is very hard to define. Early Hopkins was just a reasonably capable boxer who was largely reliant on his strength to overcome his opponents.

His fights were usually messy and he seemed to lack the confidence to stay on the outside and box his opponets- he would get involved in mauls and blind exchanges and was not at all a thinker. It was pretty much do or die right up until the first Mercardo fight. In this fight he set a good pace before wilting towards the end. It was a gruelling battle and Hopkins suffered two knockdowns- I actually thought he deserved the verdict despite the kd's.

Hopkins was much more reserved in the Mercardo rematch and he dominated from start to finish from then onwards Hopkins was the unfashionable middleweight champion his performances were largely boring he would domiante his opponents but in an unimpressive and non-eyecatching way. But the guys he was beating were fairly competant certainly not as bad as some people on here make out.

I would say that Hopkins prime is now based on three factors.

1/ His style. He is not and never has been a incredible puncher, blindingly fast, or flashy. He's not going to wow you with his punch selection or his ali shuffles- he is a clever, canny operator who uses the ring well and is very adept at adapting his style to take advantage of his opponents weaknesses and negate their strong points. He does this a variety of ways- hand positoning (see the difference between the de la hoya fight and the Trindad fight), use of movement (look no further then the Winky fight and the Tarver fight) and his lead punches (throughout his career he has suprised many opponents with his lead punches-see the Simon Brown Kayo or the numerous different leads he used to offset Tarver). Therefore Hopkins is only going to improve with experiance until age sets in.

2/Fitness. Is there a fighter who can match this guys professionalism? He has always been in great shape and has gained plaudits from various experts for the way he goes about his training. Couple his fitness with his experiance and you have a fighter who is always going to be a handful.

3/Confidence. Hopkins confidence is sky high. He believes he is unbeatable and that the Taylor losses were robberies. I'd say this elite mentality can be traced back to when he beat keith Holmes and Trinidad. Befor that I'd say he was just a title holder.... after those wins he was the WORLD champion and it shows in quality of his peformances. The De La Hoya win just affirmed this self belief.

I think Hopkins peak will last as long as he can go to the well and drive his body into impressive shape. If Hopkins were a singer he's be Tom Jones as opposed to Vanilla Ice- Longevity and Experiance as opposed to a one hit wonder. :hi:

[brown bomber]

I guess cause of his avatar?:patsch didn't see it lol

[Beatboxer]

Seeming as newb has unsuprisingly ignored this challenge I'm going for it.... Having watched practically all of Hopkins fights I would say that Hopkins' peak is very hard to define. Early Hopkins was just a reasonably capable boxer who was largely reliant on his strength to overcome his opponents.

His fights were usually messy and he seemed to lack the confidence to stay on the outside and box his opponets- he would get involved in mauls and blind exchanges and was not at all a thinker. It was pretty much do or die right up until the first Mercardo fight. In this fight he set a good pace before wilting towards the end. It was a gruelling battle and Hopkins suffered two knockdowns- I actually thought he deserved the verdict despite the kd's.

Hopkins was much more reserved in the Mercardo rematch and he dominated from start to finish from then onwards Hopkins was the unfashionable middleweight champion his performances were largely boring he would domiante his opponents but in an unimpressive and non-eyecatching way. But the guys he was beating were fairly competant certainly not as bad as some people on here make out.

I would say that Hopkins prime is now based on three factors.

1/ His style. He is not and never has been a incredible puncher, blindingly fast, or flashy. He's not going to wow you with his punch selection or his ali shuffles- he is a clever, canny operator who uses the ring well and is very adept at adapting his style to take advantage of his opponents weaknesses and negate their strong points. He does this a variety of ways- hand positoning (see the difference between the de la hoya fight and the Trindad fight), use of movement (look no further then the Winky fight and the Tarver fight) and his lead punches (throughout his career he has suprised many opponents with his lead punches-see the Simon Brown Kayo or the numerous different leads he used to offset Tarver). Therefore Hopkins is only going to improve with experiance until age sets in.

2/Fitness. Is there a fighter who can match this guys professionalism? He has always been in great shape and has gained plaudits from various experts for the way he goes about his training. Couple his fitness with his experiance and you have a fighter who is always going to be a handful.

3/Confidence. Hopkins confidence is sky high. He believes he is unbeatable and that the Taylor losses were robberies. I'd say this elite mentality can be traced back to when he beat keith Holmes and Trinidad. Befor that I'd say he was just a title holder.... after those wins he was the WORLD champion and it shows in quality of his peformances. The De La Hoya win just affirmed this self belief.

I think Hopkins peak will last as long as he can go to the well and drive his body into impressive shape. If Hopkins were a singer he's be Tom Jones as opposed to Vanilla Ice- Longevity and Experiance as opposed to a one hit wonder. :hi:

Good analysis.

Very interesting that you believe Hopkins prime to be right now.

Not too many are of that belief....but you have backed up your points very well.

[brown bomber]

Good analysis.

Very interesting that you believe Hopkins prime to be right now.

Not too many are of that belief....but you have backed up your points very well. :good Thanks. Could have gone into more detail but i'm at work. Don't mind debating with someone who knows what there talking about.

[Beatboxer]

:good Thanks. Could have gone into more detail but i'm at work. Don't mind debating with someone who knows what there talking about.

:good

[brown bomber]

Nah, he's an overrated bum, let's all stop being reasonable and get on with the mud-slinging.:lol:

[dan-b]

**SIGH** Sadly I've been too busy at work to respond so there has been no "running to the hills". I have only been posting in the evening recently. You contradict yourself from time to time & you know full well I put thought & effort into my posts. People can check that for themselves.

If you wish to ask me some specific questions please do & I shall answer. Let me make it clear not once have I compared Hopkins to Hagler or Monzon. You know full well why I stopped having the debate but I'll happily continue on the more selective British forum.

As for the character assasination, I guess I deserved that for the way I attacked you earlier. I apologise, you are a knowledgable poster so no hard feelings?

[Beatboxer]

**SIGH** Sadly I've been too busy at work to respond so there has been no "running to the hills". I have only been posting in the evening recently. You contradict yourself from time to time & you know full well I put thought & effort into my posts. People can check that for themselves.

If you wish to ask me some specific questions please do & I shall answer. Let me make it clear not once have I compared Hopkins to Hagler or Monzon. You know full well why I stopped having the debate but I'll happily continue on the more selective British forum.

As for the character assasination, I guess I deserved that for the way I attacked you earlier. I apologise, you are a knowledgable poster so no hard feelings?

Yes mate i didn't say you in particular compared him to Monzon or Hagler others within the forum and the wider boxing community have though and I think thats wrong.

I don't think I contradict myself but in my haste to get my point across I sometimes perhaps don't make it clear enough or else confuse it in amongst some other stuff of this there is no doubt...

And thank you for the apology. I also said on another thread that you know your stuff and I stand by that. Sometimes its hard to be objective as far as your favourite fighter is concerned and given that Bernard is Joes next opponent I may go a bit over the top with any criticisms I make of him....which is a bit silly of me really because I want Joe to get the credit for a huge win(which it would be) should he come out victorious in this contest.

In this thread, Jeff described what he thought was Bernard Hopkins prime. Seeing as your a big fan as well, I would like to ask you when you believe this began and when you feel it ended(if you do believe that it has ended that is.) Hopkins is somewhat of an enigma in this regard and what I will say has adapted to the onslaught of age better than any fighters in the modern era than I can think of (Virgil Hill did well but was hardly elite in his advanced years in the sense that Hopkins is.)

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[joekirkbycobra]

i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell


i think joe will win but it will be fkin hard for him
bhop is no bum

[Farmboxer]

Very true, Hopkins is no bum. He sure took care of Tarver who knocked out Roid Jones.

[dan-b]

Yes mate i didn't say you in particular compared him to Monzon or Hagler others within the forum and the wider boxing community have though and I think thats wrong.

I don't think I contradict myself but in my haste to get my point across I sometimes perhaps don't make it clear enough or else confuse it in amongst some other stuff of this there is no doubt...

And thank you for the apology. I also said on another thread that you know your stuff and I stand by that. Sometimes its hard to be objective as far as your favourite fighter is concerned and given that Bernard is Joes next opponent I may go a bit over the top with any criticisms I make of him....which is a bit silly of me really because I want Joe to get the credit for a huge win(which it would be) should he come out victorious in this contest.

In this thread, Jeff described what he thought was Bernard Hopkins prime. Seeing as your a big fan as well, I would like to ask you when you believe this began and when you feel it ended(if you do believe that it has ended that is.) Hopkins is somewhat of an enigma in this regard and what I will say has adapted to the onslaught of age better than any fighters in the modern era than I can think of (Virgil Hill did well but was hardly elite in his advanced years in the sense that Hopkins is.)

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

I first must say I think you have hit the nail on the head because this is Hopkins' main problem. The boxing fraternity at large find it hard to pinpoint his prime. With other fighters it's easier to define a period where they were at their best.

For me his prime probably starts with Glen Johnson & ends with Trinidad. To look at this subjectively you have to forget whether you like his style or not. During this period it is difficult to refute he was the best middleweight in the world. Despite many considering him a blown up welter the Trinidad fight was a defining moment for him.

I think in that fight the performance was important & I must say it was arguably his best. It's like when Lennox Lewis fought Tyson. No one can pretend that was the best Tyson but it will still be remembered as an important part of his career & showed a prime Lewis performing at his best in a big event. Similairly for Hopkins this was a fight against a hugely popular fighter, in a big event for the undisputed crown he craved.

After that I think we saw the transition into the style that has seen him to this point in his career.

[Beatboxer]

I first must say I think you have hit the nail on the head because this is Hopkins' main problem. The boxing fraternity at large find it hard to pinpoint his prime. With other fighters it's easier to define a period where they were at their best.

For me his prime probably starts with Glen Johnson & ends with Trinidad. To look at this subjectively you have to forget whether you like his style or not. During this period it is difficult to refute he was the best middleweight in the world. Despite many considering him a blown up welter the Trinidad fight was a defining moment for him.

I think in that fight the performance was important & I must say it was arguably his best. It's like when Lennox Lewis fought Tyson. No one can pretend that was the best Tyson but it will still be remembered as an important part of his career & showed a prime Lewis performing at his best in a big event. Similairly for Hopkins this was a fight against a hugely popular fighter, in a big event for the undisputed crown he craved.

After that I think we saw the transition into the style that has seen him to this point in his career.

Indeed. Thanks for your thoughts.

When discussing Hopkins I actually think you could speak about his prime in two senses: his physical prime and perhaps also a mental prime. In regards to the former, I believe this may have started as far back as the Joe Lipsey fight. Not many give Hopkins a whole lot of credit for that bout but Bernard on that night literally 'executed' the career of a highly regarded and thought of up and comer via a very tasty knockout. After that we see a string of good performances against the likes of John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, the second Echols fight and of course culminating in the Trinidad bout where he finally gained the recognition and acclaim that he deserved. During this period I believe Hopkins was physically at his peak, and the manner of his victories I believe are evident of this fact.

Along the way however, he gained experience, fought different fighters learned different styles, always adapting. Nonetheless with the onslaught of age sure to occur, he had to adapt his style. In what I consider his 2nd career, and past physical prime but very much mental prime years, he has added a few things to his game. For example, though never an angel, he has made rule breaking within the ring almost an acceptable art form with his subtle trickery. In this second career he has managed some big name wins against the likes of Hoya, Wright and Tarver. Perhaps not as impressively or as entertainingly as Pre 2001(though the Tarver performance was excellent as was the Joppy beat down) but nonetheless he has kept winning and now finds himself a 2 weight champion. He has relied more on guile, experience and ring smarts as much as physical tools in this era because physically he isn't what he was 10 years ago. And in this chapter has managed some of his biggest wins, (Tarver in particular).

Hopkins is indeed an enigma. To me, you have to acknowledge that whilst physically he is not what he once was, it would be doing him a disservice to say hes out of his prime right now. No. To me the man has had two primes: a physical prime and a mental prime(for want of a better word). Hopkins in my view has never had an absolute prime...he's had two. Take your pick.

[Betty Swollocks]

Hopkins IS badly overrated these days. Basically I agree with Beatboxer. He stayed at middle fighting smaller guys and Robert Allen about 14 times. Of all the elite fighters around those weights in the 90's and early 2000 years, who did he face? Jones, and that's it. He got beat, no arguments. He never fought a whole host of top fighters.

Iv'e no interest in this fight, Calzaghe is a twat and is also overrated. His legacy depends on what Kessler goes on to do...as Lacy was nothing to shout about....and nor was an old and weight-drained Eubank. After that, there's fuck all. Too long in a comfort zone fighting stiffs.

[dan-b]

Indeed. Thanks for your thoughts.

When discussing Hopkins I actually think you could speak about his prime in two senses: his physical prime and perhaps also a mental prime. In regards to the former, I believe this may have started as far back as the Joe Lipsey fight. Not many give Hopkins a whole lot of credit for that bout but Bernard on that night literally 'executed' the career of a highly regarded and thought of up and comer via a very tasty knockout. After that we see a string of good performances against the likes of John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, the second Echols fight and of course culminating in the Trinidad bout where he finally gained the recognition and acclaim that he deserved. During this period I believe Hopkins was physically at his peak, and the manner of his victories I believe are evident of this fact.

Along the way however, he gained experience, fought different fighters learned different styles, always adapting. Nonetheless with the onslaught of age sure to occur, he had to adapt his style. In what I consider his 2nd career, and past physical prime but very much mental prime years, he has added a few things to his game. For example, though never an angel, he has made rule breaking within the ring almost an acceptable art form with his subtle trickery. In this second career he has managed some big name wins against the likes of Hoya, Wright and Tarver. Perhaps not as impressively or as entertainingly as Pre 2001(though the Tarver performance was excellent as was the Joppy beat down) but nonetheless he has kept winning and now finds himself a 2 weight champion. He has relied more on guile, experience and ring smarts as much as physical tools in this era because physically he isn't what he was 10 years ago. And in this chapter has managed some of his biggest wins, (Tarver in particular).

Hopkins is indeed an enigma. To me, you have to acknowledge that whilst physically he is not what he once was, it would be doing him a disservice to say hes out of his prime right now. No. To me the man has had two primes: a physical prime and a mental prime(for want of a better word). Hopkins in my view has never had an absolute prime...he's had two. Take your pick.

Great post. I actually meant to mention the Joppy beatdown as an exception to the transition. I think Hopkins genuinely disliked Joppy for some reason & took pleasure in dishing out a rather severe beating.

I find it interesting you talking about him having two primes because I could even make an argument for him never having a prime so to speak. Hopkins has had quite a unique career in many ways, infact, I think he's quite a unique guy. The mental strength & will to win stem from a deep seeded need to prove himself.

I must make a startling confession & suggest maybe, just maybe I have let emotion cloud my judgement with this up & coming bout & it's not something I normally let happen. I think I like the Hopkins story as much as I do his fights & career. He's done things the hard way & if there were more champions like him boxing would be better off. I don't mean with his style but I mean guys who defend their unified crown with their life. He was middleweight champ, no question.

I guess I'm hoping for a romantic send off for Hopkins with one last show of defiance in the face of indominable adversity. Personally, win or lose, I hope this is Bernards last fight. I don't need to see a much belated rematch with Jones. This would be it, the big send off. Nothing could top it.

[TFFP]

Why is Hopkins a bum?

Many reasons

[dan-b]

Why is Hopkins a bum?

Many reasons

Go have a black coffee.:roll:

[TFFP]

Go have a black coffee.:roll:
No way, blue milk and two sugars :nono

[dan-b]

No way, milk and two sugars :nono

Seriously mate why have you come on this thread trying to cause a row? Are you drunk or do you crave attention?

[TFFP]

Seriously mate why have you come on this thread trying to cause a row? Are you drunk or do you crave attention?
I've only had a couple of tins

It was tongue in cheek, mainly because I thought I might get this sort of reaction

Wind your neck in

[dan-b]

I've only had a couple of tins

It was tongue in cheek, mainly because I thought I might get this sort of reaction

Wind your neck in

Sad.

[TFFP]

Sad.
It's more sad that after all this time you still take an obvious tongue in cheek remark seriously

Lighten up, I can picture you conking it on your computer chair enraged by a comment on your lover Popkins. Not a good way to go

[dan-b]

It's more sad that after all this time you still take an obvious tongue in cheek remark seriously

Lighten up, I can picture you conking it on your computer chair enraged by a comment on your lover Popkins. Not a good way to go

Yeah good one.

[kurt2006]

I am beginning to warm to Bhops with his interviews, think he is quite funny.

[Beatboxer]

Great post. I actually meant to mention the Joppy beatdown as an exception to the transition. I think Hopkins genuinely disliked Joppy for some reason & took pleasure in dishing out a rather severe beating.

I find it interesting you talking about him having two primes because I could even make an argument for him never having a prime so to speak. Hopkins has had quite a unique career in many ways, infact, I think he's quite a unique guy. The mental strength & will to win stem from a deep seeded need to prove himself.

I must make a startling confession & suggest maybe, just maybe I have let emotion cloud my judgement with this up & coming bout & it's not something I normally let happen. I think I like the Hopkins story as much as I do his fights & career. He's done things the hard way & if there were more champions like him boxing would be better off. I don't mean with his style but I mean guys who defend their unified crown with their life. He was middleweight champ, no question.

I guess I'm hoping for a romantic send off for Hopkins with one last show of defiance in the face of indominable adversity. Personally, win or lose, I hope this is Bernards last fight. I don't need to see a much belated rematch with Jones. This would be it, the big send off. Nothing could top it.

Yes, the best way to sum up Hopkins in a short sense is enigma. And yes, its almost impossible I think not to get a little biased and emotional in regards to ones favourite fighter. Credit must go to Hopkins for taking this fight and even I suppose this time around, pushing for it. I think he knows how fondly he will remembered in history should he have alongside the 10 year long middleweight reign and a lightheavyweight reign, a victory over the most decorated super middleweight of all time. I believe he realises that this fight is a big risk, as it always has been, but now unlike 2002 it has much more reward value as well. He definetly thinks he can win of course but from his perspective, the fight makes so much more sense now than it did then.

Im no Hopkins fan thats for sure. I respect his accomplishments in the ring, even if I do believe that as good as they are, they get somewhat overrated by ESB and the wider boxing community. Some of the things he has said in the past, even though I don't really think he has meant it have not endeared him to me. Nonetheless, as a boxing fan it saddens me if great fighters go out on a whimper. Your right, no one needs to see a belated RJJ rematch particularly given how far gone Jones is. This is the big one, the last battle, something that would signficantly add to his legacy should he win and not something that would profoundly affect it should he lose. Win, lose or draw I believe Bernard Hopkins should walk away after this comfortable in the knowledge that he has secured a legacy that will see boxing historians look back fondly on his achievements.

P.S. I should also add your point about Hopkins not having a prime of sorts, could be true. One might say he has simply been equally as good but different in each of the stages we highlighted.

[scurlaruntings]

Where do these stupid children come from?!?! Fuck sake its like an epidemic!!