Mental aspect of the CHIN

[MrSmall]

Does an iron will an iron chin make, or does an iron chin give the confidence to have an iron will.

Lots of iron, as you can see.
But really though - Did Foreman's chin let him have that no-going-back mentality in his comeback, Hagler's great whiskers, Pryor in the Arguello fight just not giving way?

One of the exceptions to this arguement is Hearns.

[Little_Mac]

I always kind of hypnotise myself into thinking I can't be hurt. It works really well. I think chin is way more mental than people give it credit for.

[Mendoza]

I always kind of hypnotise myself into thinking I can't be hurt. It works really well. I think chin is way more mental than people give it credit for.

A good chin, strong neck, and hard head are paramount, but the right attitude about taking a shot, and a bit of cajones certainly helps.

[mcvey]

Does an iron will an iron chin make, or does an iron chin give the confidence to have an iron will.

Lots of iron, as you can see.
But really though - Did Foreman's chin let him have that no-going-back mentality in his comeback, Hagler's great whiskers, Pryor in the Arguello fight just not giving way?

One of the exceptions to this arguement is Hearns.
I think Pryor might have had some liquid assistance ,Tony Zale once said "it isnt so much a glass jaw ,as a glass heart".And watching him virtually dead on his feet against Cerdan ,I think if anyone was entitled to say that it was him.

[Stonehands89]

Aspects of the concrete chin:

reflexes. This is paramount. The mind's eye ability to see the shot coming and respond ever so slightly to prepare the head for the blow.

jawbone structure
relative thickness of the neck -which operates as a shock absorber.

Will. Think Descartes: "I believe from the bottom of my boxing shoes that I can take a monster shot, therefore I can."

Conditioning/experience. the body learns to respond to shots by dealing with it often enough --but not too often of course.

Mystery. I don't know the % of the equation that is unknown but none of the above totally explains the phenomena of the Hagler chin (which is THE standard.).

*It isn't all mental.

[Robbi]

Mind over matter would be a simple way of putting it.

Julio Cesar Chavez had CAT scan and it was revealed his skull was thicker than the average humans; hence part of the reason he took shots well? Maybe, maybe not.

And one part I'd like to add which Stonehands89 missed. Well he could have covered even more had he wished. Neck muscles. A strong neck acts as a shock absorber.

[Stonehands89]

Mind over matter would be a simple way of putting it.

Julio Cesar Chavez had CAT scan and it was revealed his skull was thicker than the average humans; hence part of the reason he took shots well? Maybe, maybe not.

And one part I'd like to add which Stonehands89 missed. Well he could have covered even more had he wished. Neck muscles. A strong neck acts as a shock absorber.
I covered it, bub. Even used the word "shock absorber".

[Robbi]

I covered it, bub. Even used the word "shock absorber".

Thanks. Silly me missed that part and never read thoroughly.

[Marciano Frazier]

Does an iron will an iron chin make, or does an iron chin give the confidence to have an iron will.

Lots of iron, as you can see.
But really though - Did Foreman's chin let him have that no-going-back mentality in his comeback, Hagler's great whiskers, Pryor in the Arguello fight just not giving way?

One of the exceptions to this arguement is Hearns.
I think it's a little bit of both.

[McGrain]

Certainly a factor.

I think superfaste slicksters often suffer because they don't expect to get hit - that is to say, someone like Mickey Ward knows - knows - that he is going to get hit plenty, and hard, so preparing for that mentally is a huge part of pre-fight ritual. So he is mentally prepared for bombs, there is no "shock to the system".

Compare and contrast with Roy Jones. Certainly, Roy would not expect to get hit flush so it's liable to come as a much bigger shock should that happen. Just as "caught cold" is a reality (and related), so is "shock to the system".

There is a mental aspect, certainly. I'd asign roughly 10%.

[RoccoMarciano]

I think it's a little bit of both.

I think this statement pretty much nails it.

For example, I'm a huge fan of mental conditioning, but a guy/gal with a glass jaw will always have that glass jaw regardless of how much he/she tries to convince themselves otherwise. Some just can't take a punch.

On the other hand, a person that has a good chin to begin with can make it even more durable through proper attitude.

Like you said, it is certainly a bit of both.

[Russell]

Chuvalo's said more than once that he perceived himself as "invulnerable", and he chalks that up to almost all of his success durability wise.

[Vantage_West]

Does an iron will an iron chin make, or does an iron chin give the confidence to have an iron will.

Lots of iron, as you can see.
But really though - Did Foreman's chin let him have that no-going-back mentality in his comeback, Hagler's great whiskers, Pryor in the Arguello fight just not giving way?

One of the exceptions to this arguement is Hearns.
well it's been regarded that benn had a weak chin but a very very very tough attitude.
benn was maybe the purest example of iron will yet could get tapped by glazing blows and be on streir squeet yet have enough of himself to survive and fight back.

same with morrison and terry norris even jab judah of late.

[MrSmall]

Tito was similar to Benn in that respect, I think - got knocked down but always got up and kept on coming.
Except when they were actually KO'd.

[Russell]

well it's been regarded that benn had a weak chin but a very very very tough attitude.
benn was maybe the purest example of iron will yet could get tapped by glazing blows and be on streir squeet yet have enough of himself to survive and fight back.

same with morrison and terry norris even jab judah of late.

Morrison didn't go down and come back to win, though.

[Little_Mac]

I think this statement pretty much nails it.

For example, I'm a huge fan of mental conditioning, but a guy/gal with a glass jaw will always have that glass jaw regardless of how much he/she tries to convince themselves otherwise. Some just can't take a punch.

On the other hand, a person that has a good chin to begin with can make it even more durable through proper attitude.

Like you said, it is certainly a bit of both.

Why do you think some people just can't take a punch? What exactly is it that makes them give in? This is pretty interesting

[Novelty goat]

Morrison didn't go down and come back to win, though.Tommy Morrison? He came back to win at least three times; against Carl Williams, Joe Hipp, and Razor Ruddock.

[DaveTheWave]

Chuvalo's said more than once that he perceived himself as "invulnerable", and he chalks that up to almost all of his success durability wise.

Perfect point, and I will add that Lamotta (the true standard for chin, just as much so if not more than Hagler) genuinely believed he couldn't be hurt. He just didn't believe the other guy could hurt him. They never did.

Attitude goes a long way.

[freelaw]

I think that the will is very important aspect in ability to take a punch and the best example may be Ali.

He just had one thought in his mind that kept him from falling and it was: "I am the greatest! No one can whoop me!". It was very effective but at the same time it was dangerous IMO.

It seems that nothing was more important for him than winning. Not even his own health. He could feel that he's close to death but continue anyway like in Manilla with Frazier. I guess that they both crossed the line when the thing that they call "heart" becomes something morbid.

Meldrick Taylor in the Chavez fight, Bowe in the second fight with Golota are just a few examples of the same. They should have quit IMO. I would. It's just boxing. Glory cannot be more important than the human life and health.

[Vantage_West]

Morrison didn't go down and come back to win, though.tell ruddock and the truth that:D

[Russell]

I think that the will is very important aspect in ability to take a punch and the best example may be Ali.

He just had one thought in his mind that kept him from falling and it was: "I am the greatest! No one can whoop me!". It was very effective but at the same time it was dangerous IMO.

It seems that nothing was more important for him than winning. Not even his own health. He could feel that he's close to death but continue anyway like in Manilla with Frazier. I guess that they both crossed the line when the thing that they call "heart" becomes something morbid.

Meldrick Taylor in the Chavez fight, Bowe in the second fight with Golota are just a few examples of the same. They should have quit IMO. I would. It's just boxing. Glory cannot be more important than the human life and health.

Frazier didn't seem to have the pure willpower/sheer arrogance to make himself nearly invulnerable like LaMotta, Chulvao and Ali.

He was dropped multiple times by Bonavena, Foreman bounced him around the ring twice while Ali took eight rounds of punishment from him, and so on.

[Russell]

Tommy Morrison? He came back to win at least three times; against Carl Williams, Joe Hipp, and Razor Ruddock.
Whoops, my mistake.

He also got up twice against Puritty to get a draw.

[Vantage_West]

it might be a personality thing.

judah
benn
morrison

all had a tough guy persona about them but it was forced....benn later became a preacher and a genuinly nice guy, morrison as dickheaded as he is you can kinda tell he is a decent guy outside the ring, judah im not so sure but i think he looks and acts like a kid which might be a reason

and as we have said before lamotta and chuvalo just "knew" that they were not going to get hurt.

so with this reasoning is a mentally strong fighter a harder chinned opponant?

if somone knows that they are not going to get knocked out then most chance is that they arnt....but a person who "hopes" not to get koed then thats a different thing



but to shoot down my claim mcall had a break down yet wasnt phased by lewis.

[freelaw]

Frazier didn't seem to have the pure willpower/sheer arrogance to make himself nearly invulnerable like LaMotta, Chulvao and Ali.

He was dropped multiple times by Bonavena, Foreman bounced him around the ring twice while Ali took eight rounds of punishment from him, and so on.

Agreed. Except for the times he was fighting Ali. It was personal. He just wouldn't go down or quit even if there was a danger that he'll loose his sight.

I guess that he wanted to proove the world that Muhammad was overrated as a fighter and as a human being. He wanted to proove that he was better and only his own corner could stop him from trying to do this. It was nearly life or death case for him I suppose.

[PowerPuncher]

Aspects of the concrete chin:

reflexes. This is paramount. The mind's eye ability to see the shot coming and respond ever so slightly to prepare the head for the blow.

jawbone structure
relative thickness of the neck -which operates as a shock absorber.

Will. Think Descartes: "I believe from the bottom of my boxing shoes that I can take a monster shot, therefore I can."

Conditioning/experience. the body learns to respond to shots by dealing with it often enough --but not too often of course.

Mystery. I don't know the % of the equation that is unknown but none of the above totally explains the phenomena of the Hagler chin (which is THE standard.).

*It isn't all mental.

You missed the 2 most important aspects of an iron chin:

1. Tucking the chin, a tucked chin is probably in a 10000% stronger position to take shots
2. Not leaning back with the chin in the air while going backwards. Ala Judah-Tyszu - the chin is many times more vunerable
3. Concentration and bracing yourself to take the shot.
4. yes a strong neck but also strong legs, back and core to hold the body tight

The first 3 explain why Lennox Lewis could be described as having an iron chin in some fights and a china chin in his losses

[Russell]

Yeah, Lewis had some serious flaws as to how he carried himself in the ring pre Manny when McCall downed him.