Who are the Top10 defensive masters?

[Asterion]

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Don't include modern guys like Whitaker, Mayweather, Toney or Benitez.

Which fighters were the best defensively? (all weight classes)

[sweet_scientist]

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Don't include modern guys like Whitaker, Mayweather, Toney or Benitez.

Which fighters were the best defensively? (all weight classes)

What do you mean by non-modern? Are fighters from the 70's still to be classed modern?

[mcvey]

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Don't include modern guys like Whitaker, Mayweather, Toney or Benitez.

Which fighters were the best defensively? (all weight classes)
In no order
Driscoll
Pep
Loi
B Leonard
Loughran
Johnson
Canto
Tunney
Gans
Attell
a mention for Young Griffo?

[Asterion]

What do you mean by non-modern? Are fighters from the 70's still to be classed modern?

Ok. Let's only consider fighters pre-1980.

[Asterion]

In no order
Driscoll
Pep
Loi
B Leonard
Loughran
Johnson
Canto
Tunney
Gans
Attell
a mention for Young Griffo?

:good

[Bigcat]

Jack Johnson............ number 1

[Dempsey1238]

Rocky Marciano should get a yell. That video I saw of the Rock, I felt like I was watching Willie Pep.

[dmille]

Locche

[SteveO]

Pep
Duran
Marciano

[sweet_scientist]

Not including Benitez (whose prime was probably late 70's), I'd say (in no order) :


Nicolino Locche
Young Griffo
Tommy Loughran
Miguel Canto
Willie Pep
Mike Gibbons
Maxie Rosenbloom
Charley Burley
Jim Driscoll
Gene Tunney


Just missing out:


Muhammad Ali
Roberto Duran
Billy Graham
Joe Gans
Tommy Ryan
Abe Attell
Ken Buchanan
Jack Johnson
Archie Moore
Duilio Loi
Jack O’Brien

[joekirkbycobra]

In no order
Driscoll
Pep
Loi
B Leonard
Loughran
Johnson
Canto
Tunney
Gans
Attell
a mention for Young Griffo?
what about locche

[fists of fury]

Marciano? :lol: C'mon guys.

[Holmes' Jab]

Marciano? :lol: C'mon guys.


If we take the video that ChrisPontius posted it's clear that some (including me) had overlooked the finer, more subtle amnd surprisingly cunning aspects of Marcianos style defensively speaking.

Despite that, however I think it'd be a tough call to rate him top 10 ever in that regard. Pep, Johnson nad Burley would be my Top 3. The likes of Duran, Tunney and Young Griffo all rank highly too.

[fists of fury]

Despite that, however I think it'd be a tough call to rate him top 10 ever in that regard. Pep, Johnson nad Burley would be my Top 3. The likes of Duran, Tunney and Young Griffo all rank highly too.

Pretty much. Marciano had a better defense than he's given credit for, but to make any top 10 all-time list, you'd have to be a defensive wizard, which clearly The Rock was not.

[mcvey]

what about locche
In the next 10 with Harold Johnson

[Holmes' Jab]

Modern day choices would be: Whitaker, Duran and Tyson.

[Lobotomy]

Outstanding names are being kicked around here. I'll just toss in some more for contemplating. Wilfredo Gomez, at his best, was perhaps the most adept of his day at picking off bodyshots and slipping head punches with well timed body movements. Antonio Cervantes had a highly competent defense. Jimmy Young was such an outstanding defensive boxer that Norton aimed for his body in order to squeak out a split decision.

As short armed as he was, Vilomar Fernandez could elude with his legs, or stand still in mid ring, drop his gloves, and simply slip punches (as he did late in his title challenge of Hilmer Kenty). Tyrone "Butterfly" Crawley stood toe-to-toe in ring center with the taller and harder hitting Robin Blake and was able to hit without being hit in exchange. Crawley's idol Tyrone Everett was also able to do this.

Boxing at altitude, Howard Davis Jr. stood flatfooted with Termite Watkins, slipping and countering with his jabs. It was Howard's most efficient performance. Sweet Saoul Mamby got his nickname with his smoothness in eluding shots. Duran couldn't take him out by going inside to the body either.

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad and Dwight Qawi were very difficult to hit cleanly. Like Qawi, Mantequilla wouldn't take a backward's step, making their opponents miss as they moved in.

The Old Master was given that name for a reason. As for Maxie Rosenbloom, just check out his record. Mike Gibbons deserves a mention.

When somebody has as many fights as Greb and Britton without getting taken out by punches, something other than a great chin has to be involved. Jim Corbett's pompadour was still perfectly in place when Fitz landed his solar plexus blow to win the title. Billy Conn was miserably elusive when on top of his game, even against Louis, as accurate as he was. Conteh gave Saad Muhammad all kinds of problems in their first squabble, not by running like Vonzell Johnson, but with upper body movements combined with a butting forehead, tucked chin and protective guard.

[Sister Sledge]

Nobody said Marlon Starling?

[Ezzard]

No order

Gans
Pep
Johnson
Loughran
Tunney
Driscoll

I've also heard Blackburn put into this category.

[Vantage_West]

---


Don't include modern guys like Whitaker, Mayweather, Toney or Benitez.

Which fighters were the best defensively? (all weight classes)


"choose a prize, any prize between this shelf and this shelf"

[markedwardscott]

Jack Johnson
Willie Pep
Joe Gans
60's era Ali
Carlos Monzon
Jimmy Young
Sugar Ray Leonard
Wilfred Benitez
Mike Ayala(best at slipping punches)
Max Rosenblum

[red cobra]

Carlos Monzon, considering the sum total of his career 101 fights, with no ko defeats, has to be considered a defensive master. His defensive gifts were not as spectacular as the ones at the top of the list, but were rather more subtle and in the big picture even more effective. True a lot has to be contributed to his world class chin, but he's rarely even mentioned even when that category gets brought up. Roberto Duran is even mentioned, and it's true he had his moments of brilliance, but it eventually let him down, as let's just say, you never saw Monzon laying face down on the canvas after being poleaxed as Duran was ala Thomas Hearns. Nearly all the defensive geniuses mention at the top of the list suffered either ko or tko losses and ended up being hit may more and took more punishment than Monzon.

[MagnificentMatt]

In no order
Driscoll
Pep
Loi
B Leonard
Loughran
Johnson
Canto
Tunney
Gans
Attell
a mention for Young Griffo?

No Whitaker?

[albinored]

...joey maxim might squeeze in here.

i was glad to see harold johnson mentioned. he was as good s i ever saw at turning a defensive move into an offensive one. he could reach out and block a left hook with his right and in the same movement land a solid punch with that right hand.

i always enjoyed watching saul mamby drive his opponents nuts.

if marciano belongs on this list, then tex cobb has a place too.

[RoccoMarciano]

Marciano? :lol: C'mon guys.

When considering all weights, I don't think Marciano deserves a top 10. When considering just the HWs, I think he deserves some consideration regarding a top 10 slot. You simply can't do what he did without having a good defense.

To be honest, I think Rocky's offense can be called into question more so than his defense.

In any event, he had one or the other... that's pretty much a given.

[mcvey]

No Whitaker?
He said no moderns ,so no Whitaker or Benitez

[Manassa]

Loi? :huh

[Mendoza]

If defense means the ability to prevent getting hit by punches by using fast footwork, top reflexes, blocking, ducking / slipping, I would look at the following guys pre 1990:

Jimmy Young
Jung Koo Chang
Gene Tunney
Jim Corbett
Willie Pep
Benny Leonard
Young Griffo


Some maybes that I need to see on film: Holland Williams, Jeff Clark, Harry Greb,

Post 1990 guys: both Mayweather’s, Chris Byrd, James Toney,

[mcvey]

:oops: :oops: :oops: Actually should have been Locche ,allways get their names confused,my mistake,trust you to pull me up on it you skinny shit.

[Manassa]

:oops: :oops: :oops: Actually should have been Locche ,allways get their names confused,my mistake,trust you to pull me up on it you skinny shit.

It's what I'm here for ;)