PBF vs Big Show in a REAL boxing match

[Drexl]

Serious question to settle a dispute...

If Big show was given a proper training camp and the fight happened at HW, who would win & why?

[FlatNose]

Mayweather should just drop the nonsense and fight Cotto.
"Big Show" should pick on people his own size, even for these fantasy showdowns.

[Drexl]

PBF probably can't even reach Big Show's chin without jumping. In fact, he'd probably get DQ'd for below the belt hits.

If Big Show landed just one flush shot, it's over. Sure he's be much, much, slower than PBF, but all it would take is just a graze from someone that big...the wind might even do it.

This is a stupid question....why did I waste my time replying to this????

I know, I can't believe I had to say it either....

Here are a couple of my posts from the other site (not a boxing site, which might explain the lack of understanding).. I got slammed both times :lol: ....

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Why do you think there are weight classes in boxing?

Floyd is recognized as the best "pound for pound" fighter in the world. With so many lumbering fools in the Heavyweight division at the moment, and that being the glamour and money division, why do you think he hasn't tried to win a HW title?
Or even a Cruiserweight title?
Or even a Light HW title?
Or even Calzaghe's Super Middleweight title?
Or even a Middleweight title?

It's because size negates skill & speed. Even Floyd knows this. Not in all cases, but certainly when the size difference it that great.

A few years ago, Sugar Shane Mosley was in a similar position to Floyd. He'd just beaten a younger, better version of De La Hoya than Floyd beat and was recognized as the P4P best in boxing.

He decided to step up in weight and began to lose to slower, less skilled but bigger opponents. the same happened to Duran, and countless others.

Yes, I know they went up in weight and fought professional boxers and "Big Show" or whatever this jokers name is isn't a pro boxer. But he is an athlete and the size difference is too much. With even a couple of months boxing training, he'd have enough to beat Floyd.

And I'm a lifelong boxing fan.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Take a look at some of the current top-10 Heavyweights in any sanctioning organization. The majority do NOT train all day every day. Most wouldn't even train as much as "big show" does.

Anyone with any boxing knowledge would accept that the size difference in this case is too much for skill & speed to evercome. In boxing the skill levels are closer so a couple of pounds make a big difference. In this case the skill gap is huge, but the size gap is even bigger.

Floyd is not a mover a'la Willie Pep. His defensive technique is the shoulder-roll - to turn side on, cover one side of his face with one glove and use the other shoulder/arm to guard the near side of his head/body.

Big Show wouldn't need to land anything cleanly on his face, he would just need to keep landing on Floyd anywhere at all. Which he would be able to do easily with about a month's training on how to corner an opponent.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

[knockout]

big show by one punch after taking a hunderd punches.

[superchile]

oo get real

[dangerousity]

I know, I can't believe I had to say it either....

Here are a couple of my posts from the other site (not a boxing site, which might explain the lack of understanding).. I got slammed both times :lol: ....

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Why do you think there are weight classes in boxing?

Floyd is recognized as the best "pound for pound" fighter in the world. With so many lumbering fools in the Heavyweight division at the moment, and that being the glamour and money division, why do you think he hasn't tried to win a HW title?
Or even a Cruiserweight title?
Or even a Light HW title?
Or even Calzaghe's Super Middleweight title?
Or even a Middleweight title?

It's because size negates skill & speed. Even Floyd knows this. Not in all cases, but certainly when the size difference it that great.

A few years ago, Sugar Shane Mosley was in a similar position to Floyd. He'd just beaten a younger, better version of De La Hoya than Floyd beat and was recognized as the P4P best in boxing.

He decided to step up in weight and began to lose to slower, less skilled but bigger opponents. the same happened to Duran, and countless others.

Yes, I know they went up in weight and fought professional boxers and "Big Show" or whatever this jokers name is isn't a pro boxer. But he is an athlete and the size difference is too much. With even a couple of months boxing training, he'd have enough to beat Floyd.

And I'm a lifelong boxing fan.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Take a look at some of the current top-10 Heavyweights in any sanctioning organization. The majority do NOT train all day every day. Most wouldn't even train as much as "big show" does.

Anyone with any boxing knowledge would accept that the size difference in this case is too much for skill & speed to evercome. In boxing the skill levels are closer so a couple of pounds make a big difference. In this case the skill gap is huge, but the size gap is even bigger.

Floyd is not a mover a'la Willie Pep. His defensive technique is the shoulder-roll - to turn side on, cover one side of his face with one glove and use the other shoulder/arm to guard the near side of his head/body.

Big Show wouldn't need to land anything cleanly on his face, he would just need to keep landing on Floyd anywhere at all. Which he would be able to do easily with about a month's training on how to corner an opponent.

I can't believe I have to explain this.

Have you ever boxed?

Prince Naseem dropped Cruiserweights in sparring. All the examples you gave were between a boxer and a boxer. You put Ronnie Coleman in the ring with a LW champ and the LW champ would KO the guy any day.

This is like saying a 6'5 guy can beat tyronebouges (the 5'3 bball player) in bball just because of his height. No, simple fact is, one is world class, one has no experience. The fact that ive personally seen LW's make a fool out of HW's in the ring during sparring tells me that if a top boxer were to face a none boxer in a boxing match, it really is a no brainer.

Theres weight classes in boxing for a reason, thats because faced with equal skills size overcomes. Floyd is lightyears away in terms of skills.

[Drexl]

Have you ever boxed?

Prince Naseem dropped Cruiserweights in sparring. All the examples you gave were between a boxer and a boxer. You put Ronnie Coleman in the ring with a LW champ and the LW champ would KO the guy any day.

This is like saying a 6'5 guy can beat tyrell bouges (the 5'3 bball player) in bball just because of his height. No, simple fact is, one is world class, one has no experience. The fact that ive personally seen LW's make a fool out of HW's in the ring during sparring tells me that if a top boxer were to face a none boxer in a boxing match, it really is a no brainer.

Theres weight classes in boxing for a reason, thats because faced with equal skills size overcomes. Floyd is lightyears away in terms of skills.

B-ball is a pure skill sport. Boxing isn't necessarily. You can succeed in a one-off fight by simply being a brawler (Mayorga vs Forrest..?). You don't need to be a technical genius.

Chop Chop wobbled Floyd. He isn't some kind of invincible warrior. Of course he is light-years ahead of Big Show in terms of skill, but in this case the size diff is simply too much.

With a bit of training, any decent coach could teach Big Show how to corner Floyd and aim exclusively for the centreline of Floyd's body. Come on, get real. Floyd might not get hit cleanly even once, but he wouldn't need to.

A guy that size would rightly have ZERO respect for Floyds punches and Floyd would not be physically able to even reach his head. It's dumb. And of course it's a meaningless fight. And I have no respect for pro wrestlers in general. And Floyd is a boxing god. BUT COME ON!!!

[Drexl]

And yes, I boxed as an amateur for a few years until repeated elbow/shoulder injuries forced me to retire. I then coached junior boxing for a few years and have continued to do so on and off when I have the time.

I have been watching and been involved in boxing for nearly 30 years.

I know that skill overcomes size in most cases. I argue that point a lot with people on this board. But not a case as drastic as this.

[dangerousity]

And yes, I boxed as an amateur for a few years until repeated elbow/shoulder injuries forced me to retire. I then coached junior boxing for a few years and have continued to do so on and off when I have the time.

I have been watching and been involved in boxing for nearly 30 years.

I know that skill overcomes size in most cases. I argue that point a lot with people on this board. But not a case as drastic as this.

You get to a certain size and thats it. Akebono 520lb was KOD by a guy who weight 220lb. Crocop who is 230lb KO BOb Sapp, mountain of muscle weighting 360lb with 1 punch on the 1st round. These size difference are as drastic as they come. Floyd could not fight Maskaev cos Maskaev is a world class boxer, and id be willing to bet Maskaev hits alot harder than Bog Show despite the size difference.

Floyd could KO The Show. What you gotta understand is that through experience, people learn to take a punch. Put a newbie in the ring with a hard little puncher and he would get KO, despite the size. Size enables you to absorb more damage but if you dont see the punch coming, dont brace yourself, your off balance, you will fall. My m8 who is a 250lb bodybuilder/muay thai practicer was dropped by some WW boxer. Albeit it was more a sucker punch but it sure did damage, his face was carved up...and thats what Floyds lightning punches will be like to Show, sucker punches cos he wont see any coming. Put it this way, I know plenty of LW's who would KO a whole lot of HW's in the ring, without ring experience.

If this was a real fight, Show by Choke Slam. But as it is, its a sport were one was bred and nurtured for and the other totally inexperienced at.

[Drexl]

You get to a certain size and thats it. Akebono 520lb was KOD by a guy who weight 220lb. Crocop who is 230lb KO BOb Sapp, mountain of muscle weighting 360lb with 1 punch on the 1st round. These size difference are as drastic as they come.

NOT RELEVANT!!

In both those examples, the "smaller" guy was still 220-230, ie still a HEAVYEWIGHT. Big enough to pack enough of a punch to hurt the bigger guy.


The best Floyd could hope for while maintaining his speed is probably around MIDDLEWEIGHT. And he still wouldn't be physically able to hit anything other than Big Show's ribs.

The chance of hand damage to Floyd is much greater than the chance of Floyd hurting Big Show.


Again, I think Pro Wrestlers are a joke, but lets be real here.


Floyd could KO him?

He was given a free shot with Big Show on his knees and didn't manage it with a 3-punch combo.

Look at it in slow-mo and you can see that the shot that damaged Big Show's nose was the grazing left-hook, that missed it's target.

If it has landed on the side of Big Show's head, it would have crushed Floyd's hand.

[dangerousity]

B-ball is a pure skill sport. Boxing isn't necessarily. You can succeed in a one-off fight by simply being a brawler (Mayorga vs Forrest..?). You don't need to be a technical genius.

Chop Chop wobbled Floyd. He isn't some kind of invincible warrior. Of course he is light-years ahead of Big Show in terms of skill, but in this case the size diff is simply too much.

With a bit of training, any decent coach could teach Big Show how to corner Floyd and aim exclusively for the centreline of Floyd's body. Come on, get real. Floyd might not get hit cleanly even once, but he wouldn't need to.

A guy that size would rightly have ZERO respect for Floyds punches and Floyd would not be physically able to even reach his head. It's dumb. And of course it's a meaningless fight. And I have no respect for pro wrestlers in general. And Floyd is a boxing god. BUT COME ON!!!

Mayorga is 10* more skilled than Big show, 100*. Skill is not just about flashyness, balance, timing, reflexes, accuracy, defense, etc etc all come into play. Even his chin is world class and would be alot harder to crack than a HW's chin who is not used to getting hit in the face or wasnt blessed with that god given gift. BBall is as much skill as boxing is, you asked why do you think there are weight classes in boxing? I asked, why is the average BBall player over 6'5? Thats because in general height matters just as weight does in boxing, but when you compare a world class BBall player who is 5'3 to a 7'2 giant like big show, bouges win bball all the time as that is his sport.

[dangerousity]

NOT RELEVANT!!

In both those examples, the "smaller" guy was still 220-230, ie still a HEAVYEWIGHT. Bbig enough to pack enough of a punch to hurt the bigger guy.

That size difference is the same. 300lb or so...Just because they choose to cut the weight limits at HW's doesnt mean its the official weight, weight starts to have no effect...

[RICH]

Come On. Even With All Of The Skills Floyd Posses. He Would Get Killed If Big Show Really Hit Him. I Think Big Show Was The Guy That Broke Some Guys Jaw After The Guy Kept Messing With The Big Guy.

[Beebs]

Come the fuck on, 1 body shot, 1 head shot, its over, Floyd wins.

[dangerousity]

Come On. Even With All Of The Skills Floyd Posses. He Would Get Killed If Big Show Really Hit Him. I Think Big Show Was The Guy That Broke Some Guys Jaw After The Guy Kept Messing With The Big Guy.

I bet if someone said who would win in a grappling match, a 500lb man or a 150lb man. Youd pick the 500lb man all the time cos of his overpowering strength? Yet its been proven that Gracie Royce has beaten sumo wrestlers weighing that and 250lb bodybuilder.

[Beebs]

Much less skilled fighter, against a much bigger opponent, a much more skilled opponent, in a sport with even more advantages for size.

Takes it to decision.

Ey0UVew1xNc

[dangerousity]

Much less skilled fighter, against a much bigger opponent, a much more skilled opponent, in a sport with even more advantages for size.

Takes it to decision.

Ey0UVew1xNc

Exactly, and Hongman is taller than Show too. Also in muaythai match, from experience it is even a bigger disadvantage to be shorter than it is at boxing. Thats because up close they can knee you, and up far they can keep you at range with their much longer legs aswell as their arms. Kickboxing matches are generally fought from a distance anyways which favour the taller fighter, unlike boxing where you can fight on the "inside".

[MON]

Mayweather would beat him, too skilled.

If Big Show was conditioned as he is now, Floyd could stop him with body shots.

[Drexl]

That size difference is the same. 300lb or so...Just because they choose to cut the weight limits at HW's doesnt mean its the official weight, weight starts to have no effect...


Please read what I said.

I agree that after a point the extra size doesn't make much diff. But up to that size it most definitely does.

Therefore the punching power a 230lb guy can generate is not that different than the power a 350lb guy. Not to mention, like I said the 230 lb guy will generally be physically able to reach the 350 lb guy's chin. :yep

But the difference in power from 150lb to 400lb? COME ON!! :patsch

[Drexl]

I bet if someone said who would win in a grappling match, a 500lb man or a 150lb man. Youd pick the 500lb man all the time cos of his overpowering strength? Yet its been proven that Gracie Royce has beaten sumo wrestlers weighing that and 250lb bodybuilder.

That's because Ju Jitsu locks and techniques have nothing to do with size.

But BOXING does.

[Drexl]

Exactly, and Hongman is taller than Show too. Also in muaythai match, from experience it is even a bigger disadvantage to be shorter than it is at boxing. Thats because up close they can knee you, and up far they can keep you at range with their much longer legs aswell as their arms. Kickboxing matches are generally fought from a distance anyways which favour the taller fighter, unlike boxing where you can fight on the "inside".

The power gerated by a kick can hurt a much bigger guy.

I am losing faith in this forum. :verysad

[Drexl]

Mayweather would beat him, too skilled.

If Big Show was conditioned as he is now, Floyd could stop him with body shots.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[MON]

But the difference in power from 150lb to 400lb? COME ON!! :patsch

How is Big Show going to make Floyd feel the power?

He's a lumbering oaf with no boxing skills, how would he land??

[Drexl]

I can also give examples where a smaller guy beat a bigger guy.

But show me one where one guy is 150 lbs and the other is a 400+ athlete with some training in any remotely combat-related sport.

[this bloke]

Serious question to settle a dispute...

If Big show was given a proper training camp and the fight happened at HW, who would win & why?

mate i like your opinion on most things but this is just a stupid question once the big show gets hold of him ... thats all she wrote

[Drexl]

How is Big Show going to make Floyd feel the power?

He's a lumbering oaf with no boxing skills, how would he land??

Cornering an opponent is not that hard when you are that much bigger, you don't even need that your footwork to be that great.

Then all he needs to do is aim for the middle of Floyd's chest and hit ANYTHING.

On top of that, you were saying that Floyd would win by body shots, which as I'm sure you know require you to be quite close.

Big show wouldn't even need to attempt to throw a power shot. His jabs would carry enough to knock Floyd off balance and make an opening.

[Drexl]

mate i like your opinion on most things but this is just a stupid question once the big show gets hold of him ... thats all she wrote

I thought that was my opinion... :huh

[dangerousity]

Please read what I said.

I agree that after a point the extra size doesn't make much diff. But up to that size it most definitely does.

Therefore the punching power a 230lb guy can generate is not that different than the power a 350lb guy. Not to mention, like I said the 230 lb guy will generally be physically able to reach the 350 lb guy's chin. :yep

But the difference in power from 150lb to 400lb? COME ON!! :patsch

150lb vs 400lb is the same as 220lb vs 500lb is it not? When do you decided size difference becomes m00t? The reason you got into that thinking is because after 200lb, open weight classes is allowed thus we see plenty of size difference being overcomed. The difference between 150lb to a 200lb isnt any different than a 200lb vs 300lb (watch how Valuev overpowers osme of his opponents for proof). The main difference is that ALOT more 200lb men exist than 400lb men, therefore the talent pool is alot bigger at 200lb than at 400lb. So whereas if there was openweight from 150lb to 200lb, a MW with skill rating of 10 would be fighting a HW with skill level of 10 too. However because there are so few 400lb men, their skill level is more than likely about 3 as theres a very small talent pool to choose from and they get by with their size, they are then defeated by the much more skilled 200lb man.

Its not the size difference being too big a factor between 150lb to 250lb that separates them, its both the amount of talent in those weight classes and the difference in weight. Because there isnt much 400lber out there anyways, unlikely they will get a 400lber as skilled as 200lber so most of the time, they let it happen because the 2000lber makes up for it in skill.

[dangerousity]

That's because Ju Jitsu locks and techniques have nothing to do with size.

But BOXING does.

So technique learned from grappling is not negated by size yet the power you can generate from perfect technique and conditioning and 10000 punches thrown on a punching bag is? Grappling has everything to do with size, you will find that if 2 newbies go at it the bigger guy wins. Same with boxing, however get a vet vs a newbie and the vet wins, regardless of size.

[Drexl]

150lb vs 400lb is the same as 220lb vs 500lb is it not?

In terms of numbers yes.

But in terms of what that means in a practical sense in the real world... ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I respect your opinion always, but I can't understand it in this case.

You seem to be saying that Floyd would win a skill contest. I agree if they were told they had to have a highly technical boxing match. But skill isn't the deciding factor in this case.

[this bloke]

I thought that was my opinion... :huh

yeah my bad didntb read your entire posts

[Drexl]

So technique learned from grappling is not negated by size yet the power you can generate from perfect technique and conditioning and 10000 punches thrown on a punching bag is? Grappling has everything to do with size, you will find that if 2 newbies go at it the bigger guy wins. Same with boxing, however get a vet vs a newbie and the vet wins, regardless of size.

But we have never had an example where it is 150lb vs 400+lb.

If we have, show me.

[MON]

Cornering an opponent is not that hard when you are that much bigger, you don't even need that your footwork to be that great.

Then all he needs to do is aim for the middle of Floyd's chest and hit ANYTHING.

On top of that, you were saying that Floyd would win by body shots, which as I'm sure you know require you to be quite close.

Big show wouldn't even need to attempt to throw a power shot. His jabs would carry enough to knock Floyd off balance and make an opening.

Big Show will have no footwork, no idea how to time a punch, no idea how to throw a proper punch and no actual boxing skill and will have one of the fastest boxers in the world buzzing around him.

Mayweather wins. He won't land much, but neither will Big Show.

Do all 400 pound men beat Floyd because of their size?? Surely they will because size>>>skill in your eyes??

[joe33]

Big show would get frustrated by not being able to land on him and taking tons of punches that would if he did not do something about them make him look a right charlie,and probaly say "fuck this shit" pick him up and slam him through the ring floor

[dangerousity]

In terms of numbers yes.

But in terms of what that means in a practical sense in the real world... ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I respect your opinion always, but I can't understand it in this case.

You seem to be saying that Floyd would win a skill contest. I agree if they were told they had to have a highly technical boxing match. But skill isn't the deciding factor in this case.

Like I said, you have that view because of how your pogrammed to think based on what you seen. Had there not been open weight classes i the beggining of MMA, everyone would think the LW's stand no chance against HW's. However it was proven that the much more skilled Gracie won despite being outweight 300lb by some of his opponents. Now, everyone has become more skilled as they caught on, the talent pool has gotten alot bigger. Therefore the weight difference had to be taken as an issue because the skill disparity is no longer as huge. Thats when they introduced weight classes. Its all about talent pool, Big show comes from a very very small talent pool as not many men exist at 400lb.

What would trouble Floyd most is his height rather than his weight. Ive personally seen a 125lb guy KO a 220lb man, with ease. One was a newbie and the other had 1years exp. Ive seen 140lb men hit harder than HW's, if you think a HW can hit harder than big show then surely 140lb man can hit harder than big show. I cant change what Ive seen and experienced so cant change my opinion on that...

[maracho]

Even good boxers often have big problems against much smaller boxers in the "boxing ring" but with a size difference like this you are all just guessing the outcome--the big guy does move pretty fast in the video.
There is only one way to find out the truth but the truth will never be revealed in pro wrestling as some seem to believe.

[dangerousity]

But we have never had an example where it is 150lb vs 400+lb.

If we have, show me.

Weve never had it because they dont allow it. If they never allowed 220lb men to box with 320lb men, you would be using the same example too. If a 220lb boxer can beat a 320lb boxer (pro world champ) then id bet my right leg than a 147lb p4p best boxer can beat a 400lb none boxer.

[Drexl]

Big Show will have no footwork, no idea how to time a punch, no idea how to throw a proper punch and no actual boxing skill and will have one of the fastest boxers in the world buzzing around him.

Mayweather wins. He won't land much, but neither will Big Show.

Do all 400 pound men beat Floyd because of their size?? Surely they will because size>>>skill in your eyes??

NO!

Not all 400 pound men beat floyd.
And Size is NOT greater than skill in my eyes.

But there reaches a point where skill cannot overcome the size difference, if the bigger man has some kind of physical conditioning and basic co-ordination.

[Drexl]

Weve never had it because they dont allow it. If they never allowed 220lb men to box with 320lb men, you would be using the same example too. If a 220lb boxer can beat a 320lb boxer (pro world champ) then id bet my right leg than a 147lb p4p best boxer can beat a 400lb none boxer.

Any 400lb non-boxer off the street, absolutely.

But if the non-boxer had been training for his whole life in some form of combat sport and was give a proper training camp?











Whatever. If you disagree, I give up. I'm saddened.

[MON]

Drexl, who do you think hits harder, Hatton or Big Show?

Do you think if Mayweather hits Big Show clean to the body that he can't drop him?

[dangerousity]

Any 400lb non-boxer off the street, absolutely.

But if the non-boxer had been training for his whole life in some form of combat sport and was give a proper training camp?











Whatever. If you disagree, I give up. I'm saddened.

Well im glad that we can atleast agree on the non boxer issue as I thought initially that you were simply implying that 400lb>>>150 full stop which I thought was ridiculous. Now your taking Big Shows combat experience and conditioning I can kinda understand where your coming from. I still believe though that the 2 sports are too completely different, had Show been a kickboxer of some sort or even a former amateur boxer then yea, definetly Show. However as far as I know, all hes ever known is to grab and if he is not allowed to grab, well all hes ever learnt is m00t.

But I think we can agree to disagree on this matter :good

[Drexl]

Drexl, who do you think hits harder, Hatton or Big Show?

Big Show most definitely. I know you will say Hatton, but you are wrong. What Hatton does better is time & place his punches making them more effective when they land cleanly on an opponents chin.

Whose punch would have more effect if it landed on Floyd's guard/shoulder?


Do you think if Mayweather hits Big Show clean to the body that he can't drop him?

Absolutely. It's just physics.

[Hermit]

Serious question to settle a dispute...

If Big show was given a proper training camp and the fight happened at HW, who would win & why?

Assuming PBF would be the same fighter at HW is just stupid.

[MON]

Big Show most definitely. I know you will say Hatton, but you are wrong. What Hatton does better is time & place his punches making them more effective when they land cleanly on an opponents chin.

Whose punch would have more effect if it landed on Floyd's guard/shoulder?




Absolutely. It's just physics.

You think he can drop him, yes?


Does this guy beat Mayweather?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He's 400 pound, has the same training as the Big Show.

He beats Mayweather?

[dangerousity]

Big Show most definitely. I know you will say Hatton, but you are wrong. What Hatton does better is time & place his punches making them more effective when they land cleanly on an opponents chin.

Whose punch would have more effect if it landed on Floyd's guard/shoulder?




Absolutely. It's just physics.

I remeber reading about a test they did in Holland way back. They got a LW boxer(I think he was champ of some sort) vs a 240lb bodybuilder to hit a machine. The LW basically showed up the bodybuilder. Also in fairs with those punching machines, my brother who was 15 at the time weighing about 120lb was hitting it alot harder than many 200+lb full grown men...cant say how accurate those are though. Also having sparred with my bro and HW's, I can comfortably say he carries more bang. The difference tho is HW's have alot more thudding power, weight behind the punch whereby they hit you and your out of position cos the weight pushes you.

[Drexl]

You think he can drop him, yes?


Does this guy beat Mayweather?



He's 400 pound, has the same training as the Big Show.

He beats Mayweather?


He isn't isn the same shape as Big Show.
He doesn't have a history in a vaiety of co-ordination based sports like Big Show and is self-exidently not as athletic or co-ordinated.

No, Floyd could not drop Big Show.


I already said that NOT EVERY 400 lb guy could beat every 150lb guy.

[this bloke]

You think he can drop him, yes?


Does this guy beat Mayweather?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

He's 400 pound, has the same training as the Big Show.

He beats Mayweather?

u must be a big wrestling fan to dig up a picture of rakishi

[MON]

Floyd couldn't drop Big Show???

Why not?

Big Show is very fleshy and nowhere near in the shape of a boxer. A Mayweather shot to his liver could easily drop Big Show, no reason why not.

[Drexl]

I remeber reading about a test they did in Holland way back. They got a LW boxer(I think he was champ of some sort) vs a 240lb bodybuilder to hit a machine. The LW basically showed up the bodybuilder. Also in fairs with those punching machines, my brother who was 15 at the time weighing about 120lb was hitting it alot harder than many 200+lb full grown men...cant say how accurate those are though. Also having sparred with my bro and HW's, I can comfortably say he carries more bang. The difference tho is HW's have alot more thudding power, weight behind the punch whereby they hit you and your out of position cos the weight pushes you.

Precisely my point.

Neither Floyd nor Big show would land a clean shot to the other's jaw. So it comes down to whose punches would have more effect when they land on the other's guard/body.


I thought the answer was clear. Maybe not.

[MON]

u must be a big wrestling fan to dig up a picture of rakishi

No, why?

I watched WWE in the attitude era and a bit beyond, but not since. Rikishi was pretty famous, because of his arse.

[Drexl]

Floyd couldn't drop Big Show???

Why not?

Big Show is very fleshy and nowhere near in the shape of a boxer. A Mayweather shot to his liver could easily drop Big Show, no reason why not.

Because
1) there would be several inches of padding between the punch and Big Show's liver.
2) in order to land a body shot Floyd would have to be close enough to take a thudding punch to the arm/shoulder/guard/chest. He wouldn't be able to do it often enough to have an effect.

He has landed countless body shots against smaller people. How many did he drop?

[MON]

Because
1) there would be several inches of padding between the punch and Big Show's liver.
2) in order to land a body shot Floyd would have to be close enough to take a thudding punch to the arm/shoulder/guard/chest. He wouldn't be able to do it often enough to have an effect.

He has landed countless body shots against smaller people. How many did he drop?

The smaller fighters were boxers in supreme condition and as cut as you can be.

Big Show is a fat wrestler.

Personally I think he has more chance of dropping a fat wrestler than a small athlete in prime shape.

If being fat around the waist makes you better at absorbing body shots than being in prime condition, then maybe some guys should have tyres when they're fighting Cotto/Hatton etc.

[this bloke]

No, why?

I watched WWE in the attitude era and a bit beyond, but not since. Rikishi was pretty famous, because of his arse.


i think ive found someone whose afraid to come out of his wwf closet
:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Drexl]

I think part of the problem here is that people seem blinded by Floyd's record and can't imagine him losing under any circumstances.

So let's switch it up a bit.

Who wins, in a boxing match at HW:
De La Hoya vs Brock Lesnar
Mosley vs Kimbo (pre MMA training)
Cotto vs Michael Strahan

The "non-boxers" would be given a full training camp with pro coaches.

Do you all think Valuev got to 46-0 because of his blinding skills? who is the better skilled boxer - Valuev or Beck? Valuev or Barrett?

[MON]

I think part of the problem here is that people seem blinded by Floyd's record and can't imagine him losing under any circumstances.

So let's switch it up a bit.

Who wins, in a boxing match at HW:
De La Hoya vs Brock Lesnar
Mosley vs Kimbo (pre MMA training)

Do you all think Valuev got to 46-0 because of his blinding skills? who is the better skilled boxer - Valuev or Beck? Valuev or Barrett?

De La Hoya beats Lesnar, because Lesnar can't punch.

Mosley beats Kimbo. Only about 70 pounds between them. Haye would beat Valuev and there's a 120 pounds difference there.

[maracho]

I remeber reading about a test they did in Holland way back. They got a LW boxer(I think he was champ of some sort) vs a 240lb bodybuilder to hit a machine. The LW basically showed up the bodybuilder. Also in fairs with those punching machines, my brother who was 15 at the time weighing about 120lb was hitting it alot harder than many 200+lb full grown men...cant say how accurate those are though. Also having sparred with my bro and HW's, I can comfortably say he carries more bang. The difference tho is HW's have alot more thudding power, weight behind the punch whereby they hit you and your out of position cos the weight pushes you.
Body biulders:patsch

If Floyd really wanted to prove his grit he should of challenged Brock Lesner or Kimbo to a boxing match and on MMA t.v.

Kimbo probably KOs Floyd in the ring and three Floyds outside the ring but Pavlik would probably KO Kimbo in the ring

[Drexl]

De La Hoya beats Lesnar, because Lesnar can't punch.

Mosley beats Kimbo. Only about 70 pounds between them. Haye would beat Valuev and there's a 120 pounds difference there.


Oh my fucking lord. There is no hope.

[carll68]

DeLaHoya and Mosley both win..as long as they dont have to pack on fat to make the HW Limit. Its not all size/power, its movement, speed and defense...quickness of hand and foot. Valuev is a world class boxer, not a wrestler..he had a better skill set than Brock, etc...factoring size plus jab, conditioning, etc..he had the better overall skil set. As a matter of fact, Valuev would KO Big Showe...and why is this relevant, really? Hey, if it is all size, he would not have lsot to Ruslan, would he? What would a peak condition mid 20's big show weigh? No more than Shaq..he is heavy..thats extra weight not needed, and thus, although a true variable, is not a true factor.

I really dotn like FMJ, as many know, becuase he refuses to fight the best at WW, but, honestly, in a boxing ring with boxing rules, he would win this handily...to fast, to co-ordinated, to skilled.....Show would not land....

[Drexl]

I officially give up with you kids.


ZOMFG MoneyMAy iz undefeeted Pwnz ALL !1! ! 1!!!1

Flloyd KO1 !1!!!111! ROFLOLZ!!11!!!

[MON]

Oh my fucking lord. There is no hope.
How does Lesnar beat De Le Hoya?

Everybody who he has trained with says he can't punch.

And he's facing a guy who has fought as high as 160 and is about 5ft 10 with a reach of 73".

You seemed to be fooled by big muscles, they don't mean you're going to beat a boxer.

[Drexl]

How does Lesnar beat De Le Hoya?

Everybody who he has trained with says he can't punch.

And he's facing a guy who has fought as high as 160 and is about 5ft 10 with a reach of 73".

You seemed to be fooled by big muscles, they don't mean you're going to beat a boxer.

Oscar Ko1 anybody ZomG!1 (ZomG!@!1-212)eleven!11!!!

[MON]

As for Kimbo - Mosley.

Mosley is giving away 5 inches in height and 70 pounds.

That's like a heavyweight match.

Do an extra 5 inches and 70 pounds means you're going to beat an ATG in a boxing match? Do they fuck.

[carll68]

Calling us kids, but using text messaging abbreviations. LOL, OMG BRB. C'mon Drexl....are you flaming here or waht? You expect boxing people on a boxing post to concede that a lumbering wrestler with 1 month training in the sweet sceince would last with a world class WW in his prime, in a sanctioned boxing ring with boxing rules? Please. I doubt Show woulds make 5 rounds before quitting on his stool.

[carll68]

I can anme many, many reasons why FMJ would win this match..but all Drexl can name is size, and all his rational is strung from that one factor. Is He faster? Quicker? better shape? Better defense? Better footwark? Better ring knowledge? Hit more accurately? Better head and shoulder movement? Better boxing ability? Chin tucked? off balance? absord body punches? Roll and counter? Nope..he is a bigger man...and as we know, to Drexl, bigger always means better...get real

[dangerousity]

Body biulders:patsch

If Floyd really wanted to prove his grit he should of challenged Brock Lesner or Kimbo to a boxing match and on MMA t.v.

Kimbo probably KOs Floyd in the ring and three Floyds outside the ring but Pavlik would probably KO Kimbo in the ring

Kimbo is a boxer, maybe not professional but he held his own vs a former GG champ. Theres a world difference between someone like Kimbo who is huge and can box and another who is a fat wrestler whos not allowed to wrestle...

In this fantasy matchup tho, how difficult would it really be to break Big Shows nose. I mean if Show runs into a punch and Floyd gives the perfect counter, the power is doubled. Countering is a great way to KO an opponent if you dont carry the power. How would Show react if PBF land a straight right straight into his eye, most boxers know how to from experience but has anyone here been hit directly in the eye? It stings and it blinds you. How about the solar plexus, hit at the right spot the fat wont protect that.

[maracho]

The main point here is that cherry pickin Floyd has fooled his fans once again and failed to take the real significant challenges

These would all be interesting experiments and I think Floyd would beat Lesner but not Kimbo in the ring.

[MON]

Drexl just seems to be intimidated by large men. :rofl

If he loves Kimbo so much, he should watch that fight where the weedy guy with a little bit of boxing experience canes Kimbo's roid head mate with huge muscles who constantly throws haymakers.

[carll68]

Kimbo is a boxer, maybe not professional but he held his own vs a former GG champ. Theres a world difference between someone like Kimbo who is huge and can box and another who is a fat wrestler whos not allowed to wrestle...

I did not know that. How old was the former GC'er? Who did he face when he turned pro? What was his name? Do you have a link to verify this? This was a boxing match? Kimbo wuld be murdered in the ring, even agaisnt Audley Harrison. Mosy HW boxers have everything Kimbo does, plus skill.

[Drexl]

Calling us kids, but using text messaging abbreviations. LOL, OMG BRB. C'mon Drexl....are you flaming here or waht? You expect boxing people on a boxing post to concede that a lumbering wrestler with 1 month training in the sweet sceince would last with a world class WW in his prime, in a sanctioned boxing ring with boxing rules? Please. I doubt Show woulds make 5 rounds before quitting on his stool.

I tried explaining my position.

Then a bunch of jokers decided that I meant size always beats skill and any 400lb guy beats any 150lb guy.

I give up. My opinion is already here, why say it again?

People are obsessed with over-simplifying and generalizing. You are doing it as well. "a lumbering wrestler with 1 month training in the sweet sceince would last with a world class WW in his prime"

That is not an accurate description of this specific example.


Whatever.

Like you hinted at, people are taking this as a "WWE vs Boxing" debate, which is really isn't.

I guess I'm not surprised that people are twisting the facts in order to stick up for boxing. I'm guilty of that myself sometimes in the MMA vs Boxing debates.

[dangerousity]

I did not know that. How old was the former GC'er? Who did he face when he turned pro? What was his name? Do you have a link to verify this? This was a boxing match? Kimbo wuld be murdered in the ring, even agaisnt Audley Harrison. Mosy HW boxers have everything Kimbo does, plus skill.

Kimbo would be murdered against a HW but he does carry alot more weight and height advantage over Shane and he has a decent chin. The Golden gloves champ was Sean gannon who did beat him, however it wasnt like he was KO'd. Gannon looked fat so I imagine he hasnt trained for a long time. Shane may very well beat him but I can see how someone with that size advantage and probably top amateur level boxing skills could pose problems. I believe Kimbo is Emanuel Augustus cousin...

[maracho]

Drexl just seems to be intimidated by large men. :rofl

If he loves Kimbo so much, he should watch that fight where the weedy guy with a little bit of boxing experience canes Kimbo's roid head mate with huge muscles who constantly throws haymakers.

being Kimbo's friend does not make him like Kimbo:roll:

[MON]

Drexl...

Why does Kimbo beat Mosley?

He's 5 inches taller and 70 pounds heavier.

But he has no proper boxing experience, has never fought in a boxing match and he's facing an ATG. How does he win?

[Drexl]

Drexl just seems to be intimidated by large men. :rofl

If he loves Kimbo so much, he should watch that fight where the weedy guy with a little bit of boxing experience canes Kimbo's roid head mate with huge muscles who constantly throws haymakers.

Iv'e seen that vid. "Ray" I think his name was, wasn't 400 lbs and the mexican dude wasn't 150.

Anyways ...

ROFLolZZZ. Drexl LUVS bigmenLOLZZZ~!!!!!111!111eleven! :roll:

[maracho]

Kimbo would be murdered against a HW but he does carry alot more weight and height advantage over Shane and he has a decent chin. The Golden gloves champ was Sean gannon who did beat him, however it wasnt like he was KO'd. Gannon looked fat so I imagine he hasnt trained for a long time. Shane may very well beat him but I can see how someone with that size advantage and probably top amateur level boxing skills could pose problems. I believe Kimbo is Emanuel Augustus cousin...

Gannon just verily won because he got Kimbo in a choke and this was before Kimbo had any MMA experience

[Drexl]

Drexl...

Why does Kimbo beat Mosley?

He's 5 inches taller and 70 pounds heavier.

But he has no proper boxing experience, has never fought in a boxing match and he's facing an ATG. How does he win?


HE DUZNT!!111!

Mosly KO1 LOL1!!1!!!!!! Supadupa SK1llZ!1!!

[MON]

On a normal day, Roy Jones Jr is giving away 3 inches and 60 pounds to John Ruiz.

So if Roy Jones can beat a professional world boxing heavyweight champion despite giving away 3 inches and 60 pounds....

Why can't Mosley beat a novice whilst giving away 5 inches and 70 pounds?

[carll68]

Drexl, I do understadn your point, i really really do...but you are saying that size negates all other aspects...which it does not.....I know the discrepency in size is great, and, by nature, would offset some variables, yet.....keep this in mind...it would not offest them all. Think about it...Bis Show could lietrally be gassed by mid 2nd round chasing lil' gayweather, then, once tired, he starts getting tagged....I knwo what you are saying, do you see my point? Size would be negated by skill...since the size variable does not contain skill.

[dangerousity]

Gannon just verily won because he got Kimbo in a choke and this was before Kimbo had any MMA experience

The fight wasnt MMA, it was standup boxing so his newfound mma skills owuld be irrelevant. Gannon tied him up alot but the rules were standup and technically Gannon and kimbo was still standing so thats where the dispute was. I would be inclined to think though that Mosley would KO a fat Gannon easily. Funny how KImbo was KO'n guys left to right but soon as he faced a boxer, he was landing shots but the guy wasnt falling down...boxers in general absorbs shots alot better, even chin chinned guys like Audley.

[carll68]

I saw that fight...he was a retired fireman or something wasnt he? Wow...thats a stretch saying he beat a former golden glover...it wasnt even a boxing match..it was in some corner wharehosue that looks like it was pulled from "the deer hunter" with a mat and a bunch of loud people..and a pimp....

[dangerousity]

I saw that fight...he was a retired fireman or something wasnt he? Wow...thats a stretch saying he beat a former golden glover...it wasnt even a boxing match..it was in some corner wharehosue that looks like it was pulled from "the deer hunter" with a mat and a bunch of loud people..and a pimp....

lol, but Gannon was a former golden glover. And he was in the police force at the time, fired after the video came out.

[maracho]

Pitbulls beat even the next toughest domesticated dog--Neapolitan Mastiffs

.....However, the fact that boxers are often like punishing ghost against much bigger tougher guys in the boxing ring gives credence to the fact that boxing and street fighting are two very different realms

[carll68]

Danger...you gotta figure...if Gannon was that good, he would have turned pro...right? i mean, using that fight (I am not shittiin on you here) as evidence that Kimbo, who i like, has boxing experience and a beat a golden glover...well, that like saying Joe Buck and Ratso can beat Tyson, isnt it?

[maracho]

The fight wasnt MMA, it was standup boxing so his newfound mma skills owuld be irrelevant. Gannon tied him up alot but the rules were standup and technically Gannon and kimbo was still standing so thats where the dispute was. I would be inclined to think though that Mosley would KO a fat Gannon easily. Funny how KImbo was KO'n guys left to right but soon as he faced a boxer, he was landing shots but the guy wasnt falling down...boxers in general absorbs shots alot better, even chin chinned guys like Audley.

Gannon fought MMA for years didnt he? Just watch the choke in the video

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[MON]

Thing is, Kimbo didn't even beat that GG winner.

He got beat up and even had his goons running in to help him all the time.

[dangerousity]

Gannon fought MMA for years didnt he? Just watch the choke in the video

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Gannon fought MMA after he was recognised as the man who beat Kimbo. He didnt do too well despite the backing.

[carll68]

Yep that the video I saw ...look like the warehosue from the deerhunter or something.....Russina Roulettte anyone. None the less, tlooks like Kimbo tried to grapple....and, we all know that beard would not be allowed in the ring. I would take 18-30 YO Tyson over Kimbo in a fight, anywhere, ring or street.

[dangerousity]

Danger...you gotta figure...if Gannon was that good, he would have turned pro...right? i mean, using that fight (I am not shittiin on you here) as evidence that Kimbo, who i like, has boxing experience and a beat a golden glover...well, that like saying Joe Buck and Ratso can beat Tyson, isnt it?

Im not using that fight as a reference to Kimbo's top skill. Im using that fight to show that Kimbo is a good few levels above th likes of Lesnar & Big Show in terms of boxing skills. To me, he is probably equivalent to an amateur boxer with good amount of experience in terms of boxing skill. He did beat a golden glover. Someone can come up to me now and say they beat Ray Mercer in a boxing match, granted Mercer is very old so I wouldnt think their world class for that but it still would make me stop and think that he must have a decent amount of skill. Atleast better than that of a newbie, like I said, Kimbo's skill based on that can probably be compared to a good amateur boxer.

[carll68]

Guess Drexl took the count and bowed out???? Oh, BTW, do you know other sites fanboys are saying right now that Kimbo should turn Pro-Boxer as he would be top 5 HW and could win a title in a year....I am not kidding.....I read it somehwere in user comments..MMA Zone or something..I felt all dirty and white-trashy after realizing that was the site I was on...

[carll68]

Im not using that fight as a reference to Kimbo's top skill. Im using that fight to show that Kimbo is a good few levels above th likes of Lesnar & Big Show in terms of boxing skills. To me, he is probably equivalent to an amateur boxer with good amount of experience in terms of boxing skill. He did beat a golden glover. Someone can come up to me now and say they beat Ray Mercer in a boxing match, granted Mercer is very old so I wouldnt think their world class for that but it still would make me stop and think that he must have a decent amount of skill. Atleast better than that of a newbie, like I said, Kimbo's skill based on that can probably be compared to a good amateur boxer.

But he did not beat Mercer in a boxing match..he took him to the ground, and he lost to the GGer..right?

[dangerousity]

Guess Drexl took the count and bowed out???? Oh, BTW, do you know other sites fanboys are saying right now that Kimbo should turn Pro-Boxer as he would be top 5 HW and could win a title in a year....I am not kidding.....I read it somehwere in user comments..MMA Zone or something..I felt all dirty and white-trashy after realizing that was the site I was on...

lol, Tyson retired as he is now would destroy Kimbo inside 1 round. Without even training. Noticed how Kimbo chose to take a grandad Mercer down despite having boxed all his opponents? Because he knows that even grandad Mercer would still beat him standing up. All these talks of him even become a top 30 HW is a joke.

[Drexl]

Guess Drexl took the count and bowed out???? Oh, BTW, do you know other sites fanboys are saying right now that Kimbo should turn Pro-Boxer as he would be top 5 HW and could win a title in a year....I am not kidding.....I read it somehwere in user comments..MMA Zone or something..I felt all dirty and white-trashy after realizing that was the site I was on...

No, I stated my case and didn't see the need to re-state it just because nobody here seems able to read and comprehend the first time round.

I'd pick any average journeyman HW over Kimbo by the way... and have said so many, many times.

[elTerrible]

150lb vs 400lb is the same as 220lb vs 500lb is it not?




George Foreman vs Andre the Giant would be 220 vs 500 George could KO him because he could reach him and he has insane power

PBF vs Big Show - PBF would have a hard time reaching him, he would land body shots ect but Big Show is used to pain and punishment from his stuntman work in wrestling. He could stalk down PBF and crush him.

[dangerousity]

But he did not beat Mercer in a boxing match..he took him to the ground, and he lost to the GGer..right?

I said he lost to the GG'r but held his own and never said he beat Mercer in a boxing match. I was using that as an example. If a guy came up to me now and said he just sparred Naseem Hamed and got the better of him, I would be impressed and think he probably has decent skills. Now Im not gonna think hes world class since Naz has been retired for years, fat and it was sparring but it is some indication that this guy must still have some decent skills, atleast that of an amateur boxer good enough to beat a former champ.

[Drexl]

George Foreman vs Andre the Giant would be 220 vs 500 George could KO him because he could reach him and he has insane power

PBF vs Big Show - PBF would have a hard time reaching him, he would land body shots ect but Big Show is used to pain and punishment from his stuntman work in wrestling. He could stalk down PBF and crush him.

Careful.... you are using logic and referring to the specific case of PBF vs Big Show, rather than leaping blindly and generalizing in order to save the honour of boxing.

Prepare to be flamed!


ZOMGLOLZ!1!!!!1!

[MON]

Drexl....

On a normal day, Roy Jones Jr is giving away 3 inches and 60 pounds to John Ruiz.

So if Roy Jones can beat a professional world boxing heavyweight champion despite giving away 3 inches and 60 pounds....

Why can't Mosley beat a novice whilst giving away 5 inches and 70 pounds?


Answer this properly, no piss takes...

[maracho]

Gannon fought MMA after he was recognised as the man who beat Kimbo. He didnt do too well despite the backing.
Actually he was fighting ammateur MMA (five fights) prior to the kimbo fight and travelled a ways just challenge Kimbo so he was probably very prepared.

Anyway the video shows that both guys are very tough IMHO and they may fight again [Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Drexl]

Drexl....

On a normal day, Roy Jones Jr is giving away 3 inches and 60 pounds to John Ruiz.

So if Roy Jones can beat a professional world boxing heavyweight champion despite giving away 3 inches and 60 pounds....

Why can't Mosley beat a novice whilst giving away 5 inches and 70 pounds?


Answer this properly, no piss takes...


Because RJJ had enough power at HW, and landed enough clean shots early, to discourage Ruiz from attacking in his usual manner. Ruiz was scared to close the distance.

On fight night (on "a normal day" is irrelevant):
Ruiz - mid 220's
RJJ - mid 190's

BTW, Kimbo is not a novice at throwing and taking punches.

[dangerousity]

Careful.... you are using logic and referring to the specific case of PBF vs Big Show, rather than leaping blindly and generalizing in order to save the honour of boxing.

Prepare to be flamed!


ZOMGLOLZ!1!!!!1!

Its not about honour of boxing. In wrestling classes a skilled 150lb wreslter would take down a 300lb guy simply using leverage and skill. In grappling a small 150lb guy has submitted a 500lb guy, using skill. In BBall, a small 5'3 guy would outpoint a 7'0 guy. In weightlifting a small 150lb guy would outlift a 400lb guy. If you look at guiness weightlifting records, you will see that they can lift huge and I know alot of fat guys who could not lift the same as that.

All this because the wrestler has wrestled all his life and the 300lb guy has never wrestled, the 500lb has never grappled, the 7'0 guy has never played BBall, the 400lb fat guy has never lifted weights. Just as Big Show has never boxed and hes facing the best boxer on the planet...

[carll68]

Careful.... you are using logic and referring to the specific case of PBF vs Big Show, rather than leaping blindly and generalizing in order to save the honour of boxing.

Prepare to be flamed!


ZOMGLOLZ!1!!!!1! Drex...did you even bother to read my post which was based on nothing but logic and specifics? C'mon..yuur only logic is "He is bigger and heavier" ..WW have trouble catching PBF..BIg Show would not catch him.. if he could, he could "push him", as I am sure he would puch his punches, with that big frame, and heavy arms, and gloves to boot...they would seem like they weigh a ton after 1 round..it would be a mismatch after 2 rounds...Show would get exhausted chasing dwon Gayweather, then start getting tagged, on top of being exhausted = he would quit......

[Drexl]

Its not about honour of boxing. In wrestling classes a skilled 150lb wreslter would take down a 300lb guy simply using leverage and skill. In grappling a small 150lb guy has submitted a 500lb guy, using skill. In BBall, a small 5'3 guy would outpoint a 7'0 guy. In weightlifting a small 150lb guy would outlift a 400lb guy. If you look at guiness weightlifting records, you will see that they can lift huge and I know alot of fat guys who could not lift the same as that.

All this because the wrestler has wrestled all his life and the 300lb guy has never wrestled, the 500lb has never grappled, the 7'0 guy has never played BBall, the 400lb fat guy has never lifted weights. Just as Big Show has never boxed and hes facing the best boxer on the planet...

Again, generalizations and none of that reflects the circumstances of this match or my question.

[MON]

Because RJJ had enough power at HW, and landed enough clean shots early, to discourage Ruiz from attacking in his usual manner. Ruiz was scared to close the distance.

On fight night (on "a normal day" is irrelevant):
Ruiz - mid 220's
RJJ - mid 190's

If Kimbo was serious about fighting Mosley, I think he's try and come in at about 190.

So the weight difference would be about the same as Ruiz/RJJ.

So why can RJJ beat a world champion with that difference, but Mosley can't beat Kimbo who has no boxing pedigree??

[carll68]

Its not about honour of boxing. In wrestling classes a skilled 150lb wreslter would take down a 300lb guy simply using leverage and skill. In grappling a small 150lb guy has submitted a 500lb guy, using skill. In BBall, a small 5'3 guy would outpoint a 7'0 guy. In weightlifting a small 150lb guy would outlift a 400lb guy. If you look at guiness weightlifting records, you will see that they can lift huge and I know alot of fat guys who could not lift the same as that.

All this because the wrestler has wrestled all his life and the 300lb guy has never wrestled, the 500lb has never grappled, the 7'0 guy has never played BBall, the 400lb fat guy has never lifted weights. Just as Big Show has never boxed and hes facing the best boxer on the planet...

Beautiful Brutha......good post....logic is the enemy of the illlogical..love it. Now jsut quit saying Kimbo has boxing skills, and we are all set.

[Drexl]

Drex...did you even bother to read my post which was based on nothing but logic and specifics? C'mon..yuur only logic is "He is bigger and heavier" ..WW have trouble catching PBF..BIg Show would not catch him.. if he could, he could "push him", as I am sure he would puch his punches, with that big frame, and heavy arms, and gloves to boot...they would seem like they weigh a ton after 1 round..it would be a mismatch after 2 rounds...Show would get exhausted chasing dwon Gayweather, then start getting tagged, on top of being exhausted = he would quit......

Because in order to be effective, Welters need to try and land cleanly on him. and have their headshots slipped or glanced off Floyd's shoulder.

Big show would not. And he wouldn't need to chase either. Floyd wouldn't win by simply running, he'd have to attempt to engage at some stage.

In order to have any effect at all he'd need to be pin-point accurate over and over. Big show wouldn't have to worry about accuracy or volume. Just occasionaly hit any part of Floyd and follow up when he's off-balance... which he would be from any contact, clean or not.

[maracho]

According to boxing "pros" boxing success is 90% mental

[Drexl]

If Kimbo was serious about fighting Mosley, I think he's try and come in at about 190.

So the weight difference would be about the same as Ruiz/RJJ.

So why can RJJ beat a world champion with that difference, but Mosley can't beat Kimbo who has no boxing pedigree??

BS. Kimbo's is in shape at 230. He'd die if he tried to get to 190.

[MON]

Because in order to be effective, Welters need to try and land cleanly on him. and have their headshots slipped or glanced off Floyd's shoulder.

Big show would not. And he wouldn't need to chase either. Floyd wouldn't win by simply running, he'd have to attempt to engage at some stage.

In order to have any effect at all he'd need to be pin-point accurate over and over. Big show wouldn't have to worry about accuracy or volume. Just occasionaly hit any part of Floyd and follow up when he's off-balance... which he would be from any contact, clean or not.

Did you see Valuev's latest fight?

Even he can't follow up when his opponent's off balance and he's a professional boxer who's a lot lighter and fighting a fellow big guy...

So how could Big Show close space effectively against Floyd if he did actually get him off balance, the answer is he couldn't...

Floyd doesn't have to engage, he just needs to land a pitter patter punch and get out again....he'd win the fight like that. Big Show doesn't have the conditioning to do 12 rounds.

[carll68]

According to boxing "pros" boxing success is 90% mental

True...but the intagible is that both athletes are of equal talent.....the mental then becomes the desire to win, drive to train, and abilty to alter tactics...thats the 90% of 100%.......9/10ths of boxing, which is a genral, unproven cliche, is mental, the other 1/10th is physical....taking for granted that the physical gifts are equal, fighters are in shape, prepared, etc.

[Drexl]

Did you see Valuev's latest fight?

Even he can't follow up when his opponent's off balance and he's a professional boxer who's a lot lighter and fighting a fellow big guy...


Precisely.

So his punches needed to be relatively precise in order to move his 250+lb opponent, and even then move him only slighly off balance.

[carll68]

Because in order to be effective, Welters need to try and land cleanly on him. and have their headshots slipped or glanced off Floyd's shoulder.

Big show would not. And he wouldn't need to chase either. Floyd wouldn't win by simply running, he'd have to attempt to engage at some stage.

In order to have any effect at all he'd need to be pin-point accurate over and over. Big show wouldn't have to worry about accuracy or volume. Just occasionaly hit any part of Floyd and follow up when he's off-balance... which he would be from any contact, clean or not.

DRex..you know better...every fighter needs to land cleaner to be effective..not jsut on Gayeather.....every fighter..I have a hard time imaging BigShow has "pop" in his punches...look, all anyone has to do is land a good hard shot on another..but now you are asking a slow plodding non cardio conditioned wrerstler to land on a top condition fighter..who is lighting fast with twitch reflexes....I beleive you know this Drex...anint gonna happen.....FMj would see them coming from a mile away....BigShow would get tired, gassed, and then its over...he may "push" mayweather with his "weight"..but the punch would not be snappy and effective...not the speed of a knockout punch, not the thud of a foreman bomb..who, by contrast, would apprear "speedy", not the combos of a tyson or accuracy or a Lewis....jsut a sloppy punch..slow....leaving himself exposed to a top level boxer...nights over after time..I am not saying FMJ should go toe to toe...of course, when does he ever (lol)..I am saying fighting a smart fight, using his skills to offset and nullify the size advantage would result in a resounding victory....

[Drexl]

....taking for granted that the physical gifts are equal

:good

[Brickhaus]

In a four round fight, Mayweather wins. Make it 12, and the big man will catch him eventually.

[MON]

Precisely.

So his punches needed to be relatively precise in order to move his 250+lb opponent, and even then move him only slighly off balance.

No.

I'm saying Big Show couldn't close space on Floyd to hurt him.

Valuev can't close space against fellow heavyweights....so what chance does a non boxer against a WW have of closing space effectively??

[carll68]

:good

Drex..dont spin that for your liking...because, the physical gifts are not equal in this scenario....FMJ has the gifts, Big Show does not...so this supports my opinion.

[dangerousity]

Again, generalizations and none of that reflects the circumstances of this match or my question.

But isnt that what your doing? Generalizing, going by the fact that in general big beats small. However I just simply turned around the generalistion towards you, in general skill beats none skilled and more often than not if the skill difference is that big, size difference is negated. On one corner we have the p4p best boxer, on the other we have a wrestler whos not allowed to wrestle. The skill difference cannot be any greater, and if my general examples have shown anything, its that an elite player of his own game will beat someone who has never attempted his game, despite the size difference. Wether it be wrestling, bball, grappling, weightlifting or boxing etc.

[carll68]

In a four round fight, Mayweather wins. Make it 12, and the big man will catch him eventually.

He will never last 12 rounds my man...I think even Drex will admit that

[MON]

In a four round fight, Mayweather wins. Make it 12, and the big man will catch him eventually.

I'd say it's the other way round.

Big Show has a chance over 4 rounds, but over 12 he'd collapse with exhaustion and get tagged.

[Drexl]

But isnt that what your doing? Generalizing, going by the fact that in general big beats small. However I just simply turned around the generalistion towards you, in general skill beats none skilled and more often than not if the skill difference is that big, size difference is negated. On one corner we have the p4p best boxer, on the other we have a wrestler whos not allowed to wrestle. The skill difference cannot be any greater, and if my general examples have shown anything, its that an elite player of his own game will beat someone who has never attempted his game, despite the size difference. Wether it be wrestling, bball, grappling, weightlifting or boxing etc.


NO!!!! READ MY MOTHERFUCKING POSTS!!!

In general, size does NOT beat skill.

[carll68]

But isnt that what your doing? Generalizing, going by the fact that in general big beats small. However I just simply turned around the generalistion towards you, in general skill beats none skilled and more often than not if the skill difference is that big, size difference is negated. On one corner we have the p4p best boxer, on the other we have a wrestler whos not allowed to wrestle. The skill difference cannot be any greater, and if my general examples have shown anything, its that an elite player of his own game will beat someone who has never attempted his game, despite the size difference. Wether it be wrestling, bball, grappling, weightlifting or boxing etc.

Another good counter brutha...very true.....honestly...staminia would play a huge part.

[dangerousity]

In a four round fight, Mayweather wins. Make it 12, and the big man will catch him eventually.

How does Bigshow make it to 12th without gassing? Also FMJ posses enough pop to break his nose, sting his eyes and cutup his face. A punch to the solar plexus and FMJ would land seeing as Big Show would simply be target practice below the head.

Picture this scenario, Big show throws a massive looping right, FMJ slips it and times a perfect counter right hand. Big Show just threw himself straight into a right hand, with all his weight behind it.

[Drexl]

No.

I'm saying Big Show couldn't close space on Floyd to hurt him.

Valuev can't close space against fellow heavyweights....so what chance does a non boxer against a WW have of closing space effectively??

So Valuev never closes the space? Ever?

[Drexl]

How does Bigshow make it to 12th without gassing? Also FMJ posses enough pop to break his nose, sting his eyes and cutup his face. A punch to the solar plexus and FMJ would land seeing as Big Show would simply be target practice below the head.

Picture this scenario, Big show throws a massive looping right, FMJ slips it and times a perfect counter right hand. Big Show just threw himself straight into a right hand, with all his weight behind it.

Floyd's brittle hand breaks.

TKO Big Show.

[carll68]

No.

I'm saying Big Show couldn't close space on Floyd to hurt him.

Valuev can't close space against fellow heavyweights....so what chance does a non boxer against a WW have of closing space effectively??

Drex is positioning you ..cant you see it? He is making a point to support his opinion, or rather letting you make it...that pinpoint punches from a larger pro-boxer man could not hurt a smaller pro-boxer, what makes you think punches from a 150 Lb man will hurt a 400 lb giant......

[MON]

So Valuev never closes the space? Ever?

He struggles to when his opponent is hurt and trying to get away.

He's a PROFESSIONAL BOXER who's way fitter and a lot lighter than Big Show and he still struggles to close space.......so how does Big Show manage it??

[Drexl]

Drex is positioning you ..cant you see it? He is making a point to support his opinion, or rather letting you make it...that pinpoint punches from a larger pro-boxer man could not hurt a smaller pro-boxer, what makes you think punches from a 150 Lb man will hurt a 400 lb giant......

:twisted:


:yep

[john b]

Best move for floyd would be to punch him in the bollocks when the ref turns around and then the check hook.

[Drexl]

He struggles to when his opponent is hurt and trying to get away.

He's a PROFESSIONAL BOXER who's way fitter and a lot lighter than Big Show and he still struggles to close space.......so how does Big Show manage it??

So Valuev never closes the space? Ever?

[dangerousity]

NO!!!! READ MY MOTHERFUCKING POSTS!!!

In general, size does NOT beat skill.

If your not going by Big Shows size, then what are you going by? It certainly isnt his boxing skills. I understand he participates in another combat sport, but like I said, this is a wrestler who isnt allowed to wrestle. If you were talking MMA I would completely understand but taking away Big Shows wrestling and he might aswell be just another average 400lb joe. Sure he may have some conditioning but how much of that translate into boxing conditioning? If you have coached boxing, you of all people should know the difference. I know guys who can run the marathon but wont last a round in the ring once they get a broken nose and gets jab's being popped into their eyes whilstn at the same time dealing with the frustration of being hit everytime they try attempt to throw a punch.

[MON]

Drex is positioning you ..cant you see it? He is making a point to support his opinion, or rather letting you make it...that pinpoint punches from a larger pro-boxer man could not hurt a smaller pro-boxer, what makes you think punches from a 150 Lb man will hurt a 400 lb giant......

I'm not saying he'll hurt him, I'm saying he'd pot shot his way to victory and would capitalise once Big Show tires.

But a well timed shot to Big Show's body would definitely hurt him.

[carll68]

How does Bigshow make it to 12th without gassing? Also FMJ posses enough pop to break his nose, sting his eyes and cutup his face. A punch to the solar plexus and FMJ would land seeing as Big Show would simply be target practice below the head.

Picture this scenario, Big show throws a massive looping right, FMJ slips it and times a perfect counter right hand. Big Show just threw himself straight into a right hand, with all his weight behind it.

You are good....alos, can you see Big show repeatidly missing..which tires one out, as anyone knows, then going for the home run, throing himself off balance..even knocking himself to the canvas because of exhaustion and throwing him self off balance? Now..imagine FMJ hitting him while he is exhausted an off balacne....this is stupid, really..as long as FMJ doent engage toe 2 toe, and he wont....he would win.....this would be easier for him than facing Cotto..who has equal atributes....its talent and the mantal fortitude to back it up......Big Show...well..he has none of that....

[Drexl]

If your not going by Big Shows size, then what are you going by?

I am going by his size vs Floyds size, considering he is not just an uncoordinated lump with no athletic ability or coordination and would have a full training camp with a pro trainer to get some basics down.

NOT ANY BIG GUY OFF THE STREET VS ANY LITTLE GUY IN GENERAL.

[maracho]

True...but the intagible is that both athletes are of equal talent.....the mental then becomes the desire to win, drive to train, and abilty to alter tactics...thats the 90% of 100%.......9/10ths of boxing, which is a genral, unproven cliche, is mental, the other 1/10th is physical....taking for granted that the physical gifts are equal, fighters are in shape, prepared, etc.

True but I always took it that they were speaking more of confidence trumping talent.

[MON]

Drex is positioning you ..cant you see it? He is making a point to support his opinion, or rather letting you make it...that pinpoint punches from a larger pro-boxer man could not hurt a smaller pro-boxer, what makes you think punches from a 150 Lb man will hurt a 400 lb giant......

And as well, we're not talking about hurting someone.

We're talking about whether Big Show could capitalise if he did knock Floyd off balance.

[carll68]

I am going by his size vs Floyds size, considering he is not just an uncoordinated lump with no athletic ability or coordination and would have a full training camp with a pro trainer to get some basics down.

NOT ANY BIG GUY OFF THE STREET VS ANY LITTLE GUY IN GENERAL.

Cmon....this is a mismatch...1 month training? He is all of the sudden and exceptionally trained athlete? He is a trained stunt man....make no mistake..he is not a boxer..in essence..he would brng to the ring the same thing as a big gut off the street, with 1 month training...which may actually hurt him more. Now he knows what he has to do, but cant do it...

[Drexl]

You are good....alos, can you see Big show repeatidly missing..which tires one out, as anyone knows, then going for the home run, throing himself off balance..even knocking himself to the canvas because of exhaustion and throwing him self off balance? Now..imagine FMJ hitting him while he is exhausted an off balacne....this is stupid, really..as long as FMJ doent engage toe 2 toe, and he wont....he would win.....this would be easier for him than facing Cotto..who has equal atributes....its talent and the mantal fortitude to back it up......Big Show...well..he has none of that....



This is the last time I'm going to say it.

Big Show would have a boxing specific training camp and pro trainer telling him "you don't need to throw big shots, just jab for his centreline when he engages.

[Drexl]

Cmon....this is a mismatch...1 month training? He is all of the sudden and exceptionally trained athlete? He is a trained stunt man....make no mistake..he is not a boxer..in essence..he would brng to the ring the same thing as a big gut off the street, with 1 month training...which may actually hurt him more. Now he knows what he has to do, but cant do it...


No, 1-3 months and he all of a sudden understands how to throw a jab and has the basics of footwork.

Is that beyond the realms of possibility?


Did Valuev have to be as technically skilled as any of his opponents in order to beat them? Or did he get by with his size and some basics.

Ever seen him throw a lightning combo? He wins most fights with the old 1-2.

[carll68]

True but I always took it that they were speaking more of confidence trumping talent.

If the talent is equal or close to equal......Holyfield Bowe 2/Golota-Bowe...the mental part was the difference

[MON]

Drexl, did you see an out of shape Gatti against the heavyweights on Pros Vs Joes?

What did you see from that that made you think Big Show could beat Mayweather?

[maracho]

This is the last time I'm going to say it.

Big Show would have a boxing specific training camp and pro trainer telling him "you don't need to throw big shots, just jab for his centreline when he engages.

Yep and cut off the ring instead of chase

Ah why am I wasting my breath? Foyd wont take a risky experiment

[Beebs]

This is the last time I'm going to say it.

Big Show would have a boxing specific training camp and pro trainer telling him "you don't need to throw big shots, just jab for his centreline when he engages.

And hes gonna learn anything in 2 months?

[carll68]

This is the last time I'm going to say it.

Big Show would have a boxing specific training camp and pro trainer telling him "you don't need to throw big shots, just jab for his centreline when he engages.And in the other corner, you have a guy who can actully do the things his corner is teling hime...with decades of experience....

[Drexl]

Drexl, did you see an out of shape Gatti against the heavyweights on Pros Vs Joes?

What did you see from that that made you think Big Show could beat Mayweather?

What did yo see from that that was remotely like a 400+lb pro athlete vs a 150lb pro boxer?

[MON]

What did yo see from that that was remotely like a 400+lb pro athlete vs a 150lb pro boxer?

Well I saw an out of shape Gatti dodging punches like RJJ in his prime and knocking down heavyweights....

So if Gatti who's hardly a boxer can dazzle heavyweights, then why can't Floyd dazzle an even more slow, cumbersome heavyweight??

[Beebs]

What did yo see from that that was remotely like a 400+lb pro athlete vs a 150lb pro boxer?

400lbs my ass

[carll68]

No, 1-3 months and he all of a sudden understands how to throw a jab and has the basics of footwork.

Is that beyond the realms of possibility?


Did Valuev have to be as technically skilled as any of his opponents in order to beat them? Or did he get by with his size and some basics.

Ever seen him throw a lightning combo? He wins most fights with the old 1-2.

Stll..never in a ring, never being hit, goign agaisnt a p4p champ....I actually think 1 month would be detremental to him....he would be so confused it would position him like a bullseys for Floyd..his unorthodox method might be his best shot to last 3 rounds..he strats trying to "box" and it plays to the boxers advantage. Give Valuev some credit Drex....he is a good boxer....still lost to a smaller guy (twice really---Ruiz beat him)...its not jsut the 1-2..it the knowledge that he can do more than that......

[maracho]

Well I saw an out of shape Gatti dodging punches like RJJ in his prime and knocking down heavyweights....

So if Gatti who's hardly a boxer can dazzle heavyweights, then why can't Floyd dazzle an even more slow, cumbersome heavyweight??

Those sissys were not heavyweights

[carll68]

Those sissys were not heavyweights

Ahh..but they were in weight......thus proving being a big Joe does not make you beat a pro...remeber in peak condition..Big show isnt 400lbs....

[maracho]

If the talent is equal or close to equal......Holyfield Bowe 2/Golota-Bowe...the mental part was the difference
More like that guy who KOd Tyson in Japan. He says he was simply driven by the recent death of his mother.

Or that short fat street fighter that almost KO'd Joe Louis.

or better yet Tommy Morrison winning the golden gloves and beating 20 proboxers the same year without any prior boxing training--just bar brawls

[maracho]

Ahh..but they were in weight......thus proving being a big Joe does not make you beat a pro...remeber in peak condition..Big show isnt 400lbs....

I not talking his 4000 LBS but rather his 7' height against a Floyd Mayweather

I more than probably any other poster here have argued that guys like Joe Gans, RJJ, Grebe, Conn, etc.. prove that skills can trump size and strength.

[carll68]

More like that guy who KOd Tyson in Japan. He says he was simply driven by the recent death of his mother.

Or that short fat street fighter that almost KO'd Joe Louis.

or better yet Tommy Morrison winning the golden gloves and beating 20 proboxers the same year without any prior boxing training--just bar brawls

I would have used Tyson/douglas..but it did not feel the talent level was that close, really..but, its a good point for the mental aspect in both cases....Douglas, mentally determined, Tyson, wanted to mail it in....Tyson, clearly the better fighter, but, mentaly, was outmatched....

[carll68]

Look at it this way Drexl...size being the thing you are bringing up as advantagous...look at Vlauev...he is taller thaqn Big Show, correct? Now, if he were to pack on 80lbs of beef, would he be a better fighter? The answer, a resounding now...he would be slower, less stamina, etc...and yet in this scenario...he still would be a professionally trained boxer....would he beat Mccline or Sergie or whomever in this condition? Likely, no..he wouldnt. Now...you are expecting us to beleive that a shorter man, weighing just as much as Valuev, weith 1 month boxing training, is some how going to beat PBF is a marquis of queensbury rules bout? Not happening. His weight is a big disadvantage.

[El Presidente]

This would be a special match up on Wrestlemenia lol i would pay to see Big Show vs Mayweather on a real boxing match

[carll68]

A DIRECT STAEMENT AND QUESTION FOR DREXEL: (Yes..I am calling out Drexel in keeping with what seems to be "vogue" in sports") I think we can all agree the similairites in WWE, or stunt work, and boxing are non existant. No onw skill set is similiar. Now, with that being said: Would Big Show win a 1 on 1 basketball match with the much smaller and lighter Allen Iverson...if they played for 36 minutes..and he had 1 month training? What do you think the lilley outcome would be? A loss, or an exhausted Show not being able to continue? You see..if Show tried to play close, AI would blow right by him and dunk..if he played under the net, AI would hit shots outside...Big show cant hit shots outside on a consitant basis, and he would be contested...and never dribble pst AI....skill sets my man. What about Tiger Woods vs Show? How about Andre Agasi..he small and retired..what would happen? Well...the same thing that would happen in boxing FMJ.... a loss, and exhausted beaten large man losing. I know your reply "he only needs to land 1 shot"..well, I wont even assume thats true, but...could he? So he has the "punchers chance" w/o the usual skill the puncher has? Remember..he only needs to nail that "1 shot" in the BB game, or that same "1 shot" in golf, or the same "1 shot" in tennis to win it...his chances are the same in all of these sports as they are in hitting that "1 shot" that ends it with pbf...Nil.

[carll68]

His chance of hitting that "1 shot" that Drexl always brings up agaisnt FMJ are they same as hitting a half court shot agaisnt a moving basket, or a hole in one on a par 4, or winning the long volley agaisnt Agassi. Or returning his serve. Very slim. And, who is so sure one off balance slow blow from Show would really end FMJ's night? He has been hit harder.

[Drexl]

A DIRECT STAEMENT AND QUESTION FOR DREXEL: (Yes..I am calling out Drexel in keeping with what seems to be "vogue" in sports") I think we can all agree the similairites in WWE, or stunt work, and boxing are non existant. No onw skill set is similiar. Now, with that being said: Would Big Show win a 1 on 1 basketball match with the much smaller and lighter Allen Iverson...if they played for 36 minutes..and he had 1 month training? What do you think the lilley outcome would be? A loss, or an exhausted Show not being able to continue? You see..if Show tried to play close, AI would blow right by him and dunk..if he played under the net, AI would hit shots outside...Big show cant hit shots outside on a consitant basis, and he would be contested...and never dribble pst AI....skill sets my man. What about Tiger Woods vs Show? How about Andre Agasi..he small and retired..what would happen? Well...the same thing that would happen in boxing FMJ.... a loss, and exhausted beaten large man losing. I know your reply "he only needs to land 1 shot"..well, I wont even assume thats true, but...could he? So he has the "punchers chance" w/o the usual skill the puncher has? Remember..he only needs to nail that "1 shot" in the BB game, or that same "1 shot" in golf, or the same "1 shot" in tennis to win it...his chances are the same in all of these sports as they are in hitting that "1 shot" that ends it with pbf...Nil.

I couldn't give a shit and none of that is relevant because it has nothing to do with the specific topic of the thread.

I might as well go off on a tangent as well and say:

who wins:
The best Straw Weight fighter in the world vs Shaq or Mike Strahan

The "non-boxer" gets a few months of intensive boxing training to learn the very basics.

[Drexl]

Look at it this way Drexl...size being the thing you are bringing up as advantagous...look at Vlauev...he is taller thaqn Big Show, correct? Now, if he were to pack on 80lbs of beef, would he be a better fighter? The answer, a resounding now...he would be slower, less stamina, etc...and yet in this scenario...he still would be a professionally trained boxer....would he beat Mccline or Sergie or whomever in this condition? Likely, no..he wouldnt. Now...you are expecting us to beleive that a shorter man, weighing just as much as Valuev, weith 1 month boxing training, is some how going to beat PBF is a marquis of queensbury rules bout? Not happening. His weight is a big disadvantage.

The size & power difference between Valuev and Big Show is not as great as the difference in skill.

Therefore, irrelevant comparison.

[Drexl]

His chance of hitting that "1 shot" that Drexl always brings up agaisnt FMJ are they same as hitting a half court shot agaisnt a moving basket, or a hole in one on a par 4, or winning the long volley agaisnt Agassi. Or returning his serve. Very slim. And, who is so sure one off balance slow blow from Show would really end FMJ's night? He has been hit harder.

I never once said "1 shot".

He wouldn't land a perfect 1 shot. He would land a few "far from perfect" shots. And that would be enough.

[carll68]

I couldn't give a shit and none of that is relevant because it has nothing to do with the specific topic of the thread.

I might as well go off on a tangent as well and say:

who wins:
The best Straw Weight fighter in the world vs Shaq or Mike Strahan

The "non-boxer" gets a few months of intensive boxing training to learn the very basics.

Perhaps you should try a laxative then. It absolutley applies directly to the topic of this thread, regardless if you refuse to acknowledge the analogy or not, its relevant and used for comparision purposes. Gotta say, your comparision of Shaq vs Straw weight is off topic....this is about Big Show Vs. PBF in a boxing match with boxing rules and BS getting 1 month training...to answer that question is to answer the topic in this thread...and I already did answer it...FMJ in a landslide.
To answer your other question(s)..if the straw weight champ is fast and has the skill set of FMJ, and also the in and out fighting style...or could adopt it..Strahan and Shaq lose also.

[carll68]

The size & power difference between Valuev and Big Show is not as great as the difference in skill.

Therefore, irrelevant comparison.

Extremely relevant.......also you just stated the skill gap is large, tahnsk for helping me with my point.... now imagine the skill gap between Show and Floyd vs the gap between Nicko and Show. You seem smart..you do know what relevant means, right?

[carll68]

I never once said "1 shot".

He wouldn't land a perfect 1 shot. He would land a few "far from perfect" shots. And that would be enough.

Your entire point is p[redicated on Show landing that 1 shot, and the "power" behind it. the power would be from derived weight(mass) equaling force. The speed is mising in this equation however...if you are hoping in your scenario that Show wil land multiple of balance lunging far from perfect punches on PBF, then, well..thats far fetched, and they likley would have no more efect than a Hatton or ODL punch if they did land...and they would not land......its the ones you dont see coming....

[carll68]

For the slower people..to make my post above comparing professionals in one sport going agaisnt lay people in another..this is a comparision used the illustrate a point..thus AI is FMJ, Tiger Woods is FMJ, Aggasi is FMJ...the moving basket, the return serve, the hole in one illkustrate the diffuculty for a layperosn performing a task that the professional performs daily....i.e. hitting a half court shot with amoving basket for Show is aking to AI making a layup in traffic surrounded by other pros....its that Hard for the layperson...same as it would be to continually cath a boxer flush without getting countered or missing wildly and being exposed......

[Drexl]

Gotta say, your comparision of Shaq vs Straw weight is off topic.....

Yes it is. I was illustrating why your comparisons were also.

[Drexl]

Your entire point is p[redicated on Show landing that 1 shot, and the "power" behind it. the power would be from derived weight(mass) equaling force. The speed is mising in this equation however...if you are hoping in your scenario that Show wil land multiple of balance lunging far from perfect punches on PBF, then, well..thats far fetched, and they likley would have no more efect than a Hatton or ODL punch if they did land...and they would not land......its the ones you dont see coming....


No, it really isn't my point at all.

It's the ones you don;t see that KO you, but I have never once suggested that Big Show would KO Floyd with one head shot.

[carll68]

Yes it is. I was illustrating why your comparisons were also.

Well Drexel (Is your name derived from the Movie "True Romance"??)...your point is comparing a separate fighter (strawweight) vs athletes in (a) different sport(s) with different skill sets to illustrate a point. I still conclude this will ultimatley end in the same result...a win for the pro. My point was using the same fighter, the non pro BS, in different scenarios to illustrate how he would fair agaisnt other pros, those other pros being a mataphor for the other fighter in this thread, PBF. I wasnt saying "Andre the Giant vs Mike Tyson in a ring...who wins" ..which is akin to what you aksed...jsut saying.....

[Drexl]

Extremely relevant.......also you just stated the skill gap is large, tahnsk for helping me with my point.... now imagine the skill gap between Show and Floyd vs the gap between Nicko and Show. You seem smart..you do know what relevant means, right?


You are comparing pure skill sports with boxing, which you can be successful at with either pure skill but don't necessarily need pure skill to be successful.

Therefore it is irrelevant to talk about other sports.

The skill gap is greater between Floyd & Big Show than it is between Valuev and Big Show. I never disputed that.

But here's the thing you seem to be overlooking.... you dont need to be more skilled than your opponent to win a boxing match. You can win by damaging your opponent in any way to the extent that he cannot continue, as long as the damage is done with legal blows.

[carll68]

No, it really isn't my point at all.

It's the ones you don;t see that KO you, but I have never once suggested that Big Show would KO Floyd with one head shot.

Drex..my man..that is your point..in reviewing your posts, you indicate that the force of BS's punches would knock FMJ off balance, and would be the deciding factor in the fight...his mass, or size, would equal power, and that obstacle would turn the table in BS's favor. Now you have switched lanes to an even more absurd theory that he is going to outpoint FMJ? Also, like I have stated, you need the speed for that mass to equal power (force).

[carll68]

You are comparing pure skill sports with boxing, which you can be successful at with either pure skill but don't necessarily need pure skill to be successful.

Therefore it is irrelevant to talk about other sports.

The skill gap is greater between Floyd & Big Show than it is between Valuev and Big Show. I never disputed that.

But here's the thing you seem to be overlooking.... you dont need to be more skilled than your opponent to win a boxing match. You can win by damaging your opponent in any way to the extent that he cannot continue, as long as the damage is done with legal blows.

Yet to damage them you need to be more skilled, or equally skilled but with more power, or less power, equall skill, and more stamina...et. al...You are factoring out the skill part all togehter, and that is incorrect. Skill is paramunt in Boxing more so than any other sport. Mentl skill and Physical skill. You dont need pure skill to be succesful in other sports, i.e. Trent Dilfer, as the team can compensate for your shortcomings. In Boxing, its all their for the world to see. Very rarely will a less skilled fighter beat a more skilled fighter unless another variable is in place, focus, prep, chin, etc. They both will be skilled however, and usually equally Never will a "fighter" with no skill beat one at the height of his game...which is what you are asking me to beleive.

[carll68]

..At the end of the day, we will never know the answer....but it sure is fun to specualte..oh yeah, and one mroe thing....I AM RIGHT :-)

[SgrRyLeonard]

Small Welterweight vs. EXTREMELY BIG HEAVYWEIGHT = Big Show Destroys Mayweather.

[carll68]

Small Welterweight vs. EXTREMELY BIG HEAVYWEIGHT = Big Show Destroys Mayweather.

He is only HW in stature, not in skill. I lilely would not get a license. By your estimation, bigger = better, regardless of training. Wrong.

[Drexl]

Well Drexel (Is your name derived from the Movie "True Romance"??)...your point is comparing a separate fighter (strawweight) vs athletes in (a) different sport(s) with different skill sets to illustrate a point. I still conclude this will ultimatley end in the same result...a win for the pro. My point was using the same fighter, the non pro BS, in different scenarios to illustrate how he would fair agaisnt other pros, those other pros being a mataphor for the other fighter in this thread, PBF. I wasnt saying "Andre the Giant vs Mike Tyson in a ring...who wins" ..which is akin to what you aksed...jsut saying.....


Mike wins easily. And it is clearly nothing like the same thing. :patsch

[Drexl]

Drex..my man..that is your point..in reviewing your posts, you indicate that the force of BS's punches...

PUNCHES

....ES

...S


As in plural. :patsch

[Drexl]

Now you have switched lanes to an even more absurd theory that he is going to outpoint FMJ?


And where the fuck did you get that from.

You are bizarre.

[carll68]

PUNCHES

....ES

...S


As in plural. :patsch

Now thats a real stetch to assume he is going to land "punches" on FMJ....over several rounds...which is another stretch to assume he can last several rounds...and what do you factor that leads you to beleive that A) he can land punchES on FMJ B) If he did, they would be of consiquence B) He has the stamina to go 12 rounds C) FMJ's rib punches will have no effect

[Drexl]

Yet to damage them you need to be more skilled, or equally skilled but with more power, or less power, equall skill, and more stamina...et. al...

No, you don't.

You just need to land a blow with decent force. You don't need any outlandish skill, just basic technique that could easily be taught in an average training camp.

[carll68]

And where the fuck did you get that from.

You are bizarre.

Ok..I am bizzare...but you are the one saying a 400lb 7ft oafe can beat the peak conditioned boxer. C'mon. You are saying punches. You made that clear. I think we can agree that his punches would not equal force using basic priniciples of science, but rather would be slow moving blows....a punch with 150lbs of mass behind it traveling at 40mph has more force than a punch with 400lbs of mass behinfd it traveling at 2 mph....so, FMJ would hit harder..and has been hit harder...so you must be saying a points victory..

[Drexl]

Now thats a real stetch to assume he is going to land "punches" on FMJ....over several rounds...which is another stretch to assume he can last several rounds...and what do you factor that leads you to beleive that A) he can land punchES on FMJ B) If he did, they would be of consiquence B) He has the stamina to go 12 rounds C) FMJ's rib punches will have no effect

Stop ASSumimg you know what I mean. I didn't say he needed to land any great number of punches, just a few more than one.

I have had enough of you now. You obviously care more than I do about the subject.

You are welcome to your opinion. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself. :good

[Benjiabc]

big show is nackered after chasing PBF around the ring for 3 rounds. PBF then uses all his strength to push him over and win by KO

[Drexl]

Quick - go vote for Shane in my Shane vs Kimbo poll.

[carll68]

No, you don't.

You just need to land a blow with decent force. You don't need any outlandish skill, just basic technique that could easily be taught in an average training camp.

You do need skill, or equal skill to your opponent. Perhaps in this scenario, neither one is skilled, and lucky punches can land. Therfor, skill is equal, and power can become the deteming factor. The opponent would need to have either A) slightly less skill to allow you to land the punch B) have the intangible of being echausted, less stamina C) Not have the mental endurance to train or overcome adversity. So, all these things can be assumed for BS, not FMJ...so it looks like in probabilty if a KO occured, it would be BS going down.

[Drexl]

You do need skill, or equal skill to your opponent. Perhaps in this scenario, neither one is skilled, and lucky punches can land. Therfor, skill is equal, and power can become the deteming factor. The opponent would need to have either A) slightly less skill to allow you to land the punch B) have the intangible of being echausted, less stamina C) Not have the mental endurance to train or overcome adversity. So, all these things can be assumed for BS, not FMJ...so it looks like in probabilty if a KO occured, it would be BS going down.

Yay for you!!! :happy

Floyd KOs Big Show! It's official because you said so!

[carll68]

Stop ASSumimg you know what I mean. I didn't say he needed to land any great number of punches, just a few more than one.

I have had enough of you now. You obviously care more than I do about the subject.

You are welcome to your opinion. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself. :good

Well..perhaps if you made your IDIOTIC point clear, I would not have to assume I know what you are trying to say.

[carll68]

:happy Yay for you!!! :happy

Floyd KOs Big Show! It's official because you said so!

Good for you...arguing with sceince...yeah....go for it Einstein......(Net Force) = ((Mass)*(Speed)2)/(Path Radius)...Drexl found another formula..... its somehting much greater, that only Drexel knows....

[Drexl]

:happy

Good for you...arguing with sceince...yeah....go for it Einstein......(Net Force) = ((Mass)*(Speed)2)/(Path Radius)...Drexl found another formula..... its somehting much greater, that only Drexel knows....

:patsch

I'm an engineer. Have been for probably as long as you have been on this planet.

And any good engineer knows that newtonian physics are not representative of real-world practical applications.

But again, go ahead and quote your high-school science like it means something.

HOORAY FOR YOU! :happy

[carll68]

:patsch

I'm an engineer. Have been for probably as long as you have been on this planet.

And any good engineer knows that newtonian physics are not representative of real-world practical applications.

But again, go ahead and quote your high-school science like it means something.

HOORAY FOR YOU! :happy

They absolutely are relevent and a have real world practical applications...like, um, i dont know...determining the force at which one object impacts another...man...what field of engineering are you in? Wow...get your degree from the local community college? I know it wasnt MIT. High school sceince..what a pompous ass you are.

[lenin]

mayweather would dance around him all night. like big show knows how to cut off the ring

[carll68]

Wow...since you are clearly the worlds most talented engineer (sure you are), please lay out for me, and my high school education (lol), the correct formula used to derived the force of a punch and the variables used, i.e distance traveled, weight, etc. Since they are obviuslly drasticaly different then the formula I displayed. Oh..whats that? You can't? Sir Isaac already did? or do you think that relativety "mumbo jumbo" is all bullcrap. Hmm..shocker. Numbnuts

[carll68]

mayweather would dance around him all night. like big show knows how to cut off the ring

Thats the truth.....would be a mismatch, Big Show would run out of gas also, may even get KO'ed from exhaustion and body punches....

[Lance_Uppercut]

I gotta side with Drexl on this. Size difference is TOO great. Floyd would need to get in close to land. And if he did, any punch the big show threw would hurt, even if it ht Floyd's gloves or grazed him. There's a lot of weight behind those meathooks.

[carll68]

I gotta side with Drexl on this. Size difference is TOO great. Floyd would need to get in close to land. And if he did, any punch the big show threw would hurt, even if it ht Floyd's gloves or grazed him. There's a lot of weight behind those meathooks.

Think about it...BS would have difficulty landing..and as small (follow me here) as FMJ is, this would somewhat negate/offset the reach advantage, as Big Show would be reaching down (from shoulder to Mays head) almost 12 inches. Bottom line, FMJ doesn ot have to get close..he can do waht he wants, outside, inside....it doesnt matter..and dont overestimate the power of a slow moving punch....if they could even land

[Lance_Uppercut]

Think about it...BS would have difficulty landing..and as small (follow me here) as FMJ is, this would somewhat negate/offset the reach advantage, as Big Show would be reaching down (from shoulder to Mays head) almost 12 inches. Bottom line, FMJ doesn ot have to get close..he can do waht he wants, outside, inside....it doesnt matter..and dont overestimate the power of a slow moving punch....if they could even land

I admit Big Show would have his trouble landing, but so would Floyd. Look at how he fights, he doesn't take risks. THink he'd do that with a 7'4" 400 man who's pretty athletic in his own right?

Floyd would be back peddling the WHOLE night. Cant pot shot what you can't hit.

It's not just Big Shows weight either, his height factors in greatly. His reach would be RIDICULOUS over Floyd's.

[carll68]

I admit Big Show would have his trouble landing, but so would Floyd. Look at how he fights, he doesn't take risks. THink he'd do that with a 7'4" 400 man who's pretty athletic in his own right?

Floyd would be back peddling the WHOLE night. Cant pot shot what you can't hit.

It's not just Big Shows weight either, his height factors in greatly. His reach would be RIDICULOUS over Floyd's.

No doubt all the things you said have merit...but, like you said, and i will translate in my words..FMJ fights like a sissy anyway, which, would be his best startegy at least for the first couple of rounds. All the size advantages, every one, go to BS..and all the skill advantages, and i would argue even punching power either go to FMJ by a landslide, or could go to Floyd (Power)..so i dotn see a scenario, other than a loss of focus, where the plodding ginat would have a chnace to catch FMJ...and would likely get exhauseted carrying that meat around the ring and getting peppered while of balance...angles would be huge for FMJ ...right?

[Lance_Uppercut]

No doubt all the things you said have merit...but, like you said, and i will translate in my words..FMJ fights like a sissy anyway, which, would be his best startegy at least for the first couple of rounds. All the size advantages, every one, go to BS..and all the skill advantages, and i would argue even punching power either go to FMJ by a landslide, or could go to Floyd (Power)..so i dotn see a scenario, other than a loss of focus, where the plodding ginat would have a chnace to catch FMJ...and would likely get exhauseted carrying that meat around the ring and getting peppered while of balance...angles would be huge for FMJ ...right?

Yeah, if Big show wasn't so massive. Floyd hasn't fought inside since Castillo in 2002. He plays it safe more often then not. Even if Show hit him on the arms, that might be enough to knock floyd down due to simple inertia. Of course he'd probably get up every time (being dropped moreso by the force, not being hurt). We all know floyd's one of the best defeinsive fighters, but he DOES get hit. Maybe not often or always clean, but hit nonetheless.

Did you say punching power goes to Floyd? :huh


The best way I could see Floyd winning is if BS tired fast (which is very possible) and Floyd darts in and out landing a good punch then backpeddlig out again. Rinse and repeat. Always repeat.

[BoxingKangaroo]

if this is for real i will never regain my faith in the sport i love...

[Drexl]

Wow...since you are clearly the worlds most talented engineer (sure you are), please lay out for me, and my high school education (lol), the correct formula used to derived the force of a punch and the variables used, i.e distance traveled, weight, etc. Since they are obviuslly drasticaly different then the formula I displayed. Oh..whats that? You can't? Sir Isaac already did? or do you think that relativety "mumbo jumbo" is all bullcrap. Hmm..shocker. Numbnuts

Settle down.

Look at my last post in the Kimbo vs Shane thread. I hope this clarifies things and you can take a chill pill and just disagree and leave it at that. I don't enjoy arguing over imaginary shit, I was just asking the question and it got out of hand. :good


If you want to get into a debate about physics...

I'm not the greatest Engineer in the world, but I am a good one with a lot of practical experience in the field. We often get calculations from "office" engineers and throw hthem out because all they do is apply formulae and ignore the real world.

Such is the case with the Newtonian Physics you are talking about. I can't give you a formula that reflects the reality of a punch because one does not exist, or at least it would be too complex for anyone to make use of. Force does NOT simply equal Mass multiplied by Acceleration in the real world.

In this case, what are you measuring the "mass" of?
A fist, as if it isn't attached to anything?
A fist & arm? A whole body?
In that case, what percentage of the mass of the body is actually acting in the direction of the acceleration? Is that percentage always the same through the entire motion of the punch, or does it chance as the body twists?
Are you considering the coefficient of friction between the floor and the fighter's shoe? What is the surface area of the shoe in contact with the floor? Is that constant throughout the motion of the punch?
What is the resistance to the punches acceleration exerted by the tendons in the fighter's arm?
What about in his back?
Is the acceleration linear or angular. Or something in between?

I could go on for as long as you want, but there really is no point.


You disagree, and that is the bottom line. You might be 100% right about the mythical match-up. Maybe BS lands a lucky shot. In that case you could probably still claim to be right because it was a fluke. Whatever. Does it really matter enough to get into an argument with a stranger?

[carll68]

Agree to disagree.....you are surely and obviuslly a intelligent person....never implied that you werent,, or even assumed you werent....just simply making my point., and retaliated for your "high school" comment. Talk to you soon...have a good weekend.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

The Big Show has actually been training in boxing for quite some time now.

[carll68]

Yeah, if Big show wasn't so massive. Floyd hasn't fought inside since Castillo in 2002. He plays it safe more often then not. Even if Show hit him on the arms, that might be enough to knock floyd down due to simple inertia. Of course he'd probably get up every time (being dropped moreso by the force, not being hurt). We all know floyd's one of the best defeinsive fighters, but he DOES get hit. Maybe not often or always clean, but hit nonetheless.

Did you say punching power goes to Floyd? :huh


The best way I could see Floyd winning is if BS tired fast (which is very possible) and Floyd darts in and out landing a good punch then backpeddlig out again. Rinse and repeat. Always repeat.

On the power thing..there are varying ways of looking at it, but, at its very basic core, speed and mass related to force. I am not sure if FMJ has more power or not, frankly..yet, let me ask you..would you rather I stand 5 feet away and throw a 25 pound stone at you, as hard as I can, or stand the same five feet, and fire a 158 grain 38 special plus P? What does more damage, has more power? I see BS as the stone here, and you could avoid it, and mayweather the bullet...exagerated, yes..but at least you can see my logic

[Drexl]

Agree to disagree.....you are surely and obviuslly a intelligent person....never implied that you werent,, or even assumed you werent....just simply making my point., and retaliated for your "high school" comment. Talk to you soon...have a good weekend.

But Newtonian Physics IS High-School level science! :D

[carll68]

But Newtonian Physics IS High-School level science! :D

Sure it is...Physics...many people never even got to that level in HIgh School? You know that..they topped off at Biology or Chemistry,,,yet how many people here, or in the world, actually remember that formula Drexl? Or even know of it? in your field, i am sure they do, you are surrounded by these laws all day. But as an self made man and entrepenuer, I dotnt see many people with this knowledge. My point is that you minimized what i was saying to the point of making it irrelevant, and in addtiion, insulted me.