Did Pacman lose this fight?

[main man]

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I think pac was down at 00:43 then he got up at 00:54, and notice that when he finally got up, the ref only reached the count of 7. this fight happened in the Philippines and refereed by Padilla of the Thrilla in Manila fame

[reed_man02]

He would have had the ref been non biased.:deal

[main man]

He would have had the ref been non biased.:deal

I agree with you. But what bothers me (more) is the fact that the carlos padilla (the ref) was a respected ref and at one time, held the record for most championship fights refereed. I guess even good refs succumb to some "home cooking" once in a while

[dangerousity]

Well the fighter can only go by what the ref is shouting to them. Had Padilla been on 9 im sure Pac would opt to get up sooner.

[theunderdog]

it really was a long count. if he would have gotten up or stayed down without the long count is something we will never know

[DobyZhee]

Oh well..slow counts happen. Guess Pacman isn't a world class fighter.

[angelos]

Well Hussein used every dirty trick in the book during that fight. Elbows, headbutts, etc, against Pac and the ref didn't call any fouls. Filipinos were very angry at Carlos Padilla in that fight thats why he never got a chance to become a ref again.

[theunderdog]

Well Hussein used every dirty trick in the book during that fight. Elbows, headbutts, etc, against Pac and the ref didn't call any fouls. Filipinos were very angry at Carlos Padilla in that fight thats why he never got a chance to become a ref again.

he saved pac by that long count, or at least gave him extra time to recover. and stopped the bout on cuts. how could filipinos hate on that?

[reed_man02]

he saved pac by that long count, or at least gave him extra time to recover. and stopped the bout on cuts. how could filipinos hate on that?

What was really bizarre is when he deducted a point from hussein because Pac was holding excessively.:rofl

Dam, pac looked STUNNED after that left hook I think it was. So what if pac should have another loss on his record, it doesnt take away from what he has accomplished before, or since. Who cares if nedal hussein has pac's number.:yep

[MattMattMatt]

We can't tell from those camera angles, I was under the impression that the ref only starts the count when the other guy gets to a neutral corner, if you look at the foot positioning of the ref when the camera is zoomed in on Pac's face you will see the ref is not facing him to begin with which suggests to me that he was trying to tell Hussein to go to the corner. If this was the case then it is mostly Hussein's fault for not getting there fast enough - I do however agree that the count was a little slow, but from the point where we can no longer assume the ref is concentrating on getting Hussein to a corner (0:47) at which point we can assume is the earliest he is supposed to start counting to the point where Pac is on his feet (0:54) is only 7 seconds so it seems OK to me until I see some better angles.

On a side note, Pac was turned to jelly by a jab, I have not noticed the usual torrent of 'glass jaw' abuse on this forum focused on him at any point. I personally believe that the so called 'glass jaw' is much less prevalent than people think (one knock down or a bad night do not mean you have no punch resistance), and even if a fighter has this label, I think it is no where near as important as people want to make out.

For example, it is perfectly possible statistically speaking for a 'glass jawed' fighter to win 95% of his fights against top competition and to lose the 5% by unlucky* knockout. A puncher with good punch resistance might win 95% of his fights (by KO some of which might be considered lucky!) but could lose 5% by UD which could be considered unlucky as he was not able to land the winning punch. To me there is very little difference between the two, they are both exciting in their own ways. If getting knocked down or KO loss was as much a problem as most people make out then we wouldn't have 5 out of the top 10 P4P list who had either been KOed, suffered knockdowns and/or been labelled as a glass jawed. To emphasise the point, these fighters are in the top five (ring ratings) of the world in their respective divisions:
Wladimir Klitschko
Oleg Maskaev
David Haye
Jean Marc Mormeck
O'Neil Bell
Enzo Maccarinelli
Glen Johnson
Anthony Mundine
Kelly Pavlik
Jermaine Taylor
Sebastian Sylvester
Felix Sturm
Cory Spinks
Vernon Forrest
Alex Bunema
Oscar De La Hoya
Carlos Quintana
Miguel Cotto
Ricky Hatton
Vivian Harris
David Diaz
Jose Santa Cruz
Julio Diaz
Amir Khan (#7 but get so much stick I thought I'd include him)
Manny Pacquiao
Humberto Soto
Jorge Solis
Naoki Matsuda
Isreal Vasquez
Rafael Marquez
Celestino Caballero
Somsak Sithchatchawal
Veeraphol Sahaprom
Silence Mabuza
Jorge Arce
Daisuke Naito
Pongsaklek Wongjongkam
Edgar Sosa
Omar Nino
Daniel Reyes
Eagle Kyowa

...so much for that the glass chin.



* - I know that boxing is premiditated but I consider luck or lack of it to simply represent the real world manifestation of probabilities of any parcticular outcome - an unexpected knockout by definition is hard to predict as we cannot estimate the probabilities with any consistancy so I think it is fair enough to call it unlucky. Depending on the opponent it would generally not be unexpected to lose to Calzaghe or Floyd by UD so that would not be unlucky in my book.

[MattMattMatt]

That was longer than I expected, I think I'll put it in a new thread.:oops:

[LeadLeftHook]

That was unbelieveable the Ref deducts a point from Hussein when he knock down Pacman, Pacman was badly hurt and blantantly holding for dear life. Seemed liked a WWE referee.

The fight was in Phillipines so that explains a lot.

[Boyd]

i think the ref took the point because he though Hussein was hitting while he was trying to break them up.

[Galaxy]

i dint have a problem with the count, was the count long?..maybe but that happens in alot of fights when the ref has to tell the other fighter to go to a neutral corner and pac was clearly looking at the ref on when to get up. the problem i had though was with the point deduction on hussien for the elbow he threw while pac was holding on. The elbow was a natural reaction and hussien being the head case dint know how to deal with the situation.

[bulakenyo]

I saw that fight on TV, about 7 years ago or so.

Yes, it was a long count. A regular ref would have counted Pac out.

But Pac came back strong and cut Hussein's face in the later rounds. He rocked him with haymaker lefts and continuously pressured.

Nadel Hussein's a really rugged and nasty fighter. I've never seen so many cheap shots in any other Pac fight. (Agapito Sanchez a close second)

That's why the mid 1990s to early 2000s version of Pac was so exciting, it's like a sudden death match every fight.

Either you knock him out, or he knocks you out.

[FlatNose]

As far as the ref waiting to count until Hussein went to a neutral corner...
when a knockdown occurs, the count is supposed to be started by the knockdown timer and picked up by the referee as soon as the boxer on his feet goes to the neutral corner. So the amount of time it took to get Hussein in the corner shouldn't have made a difference in the length of the count.
Remember the confusion in the second Ali-Liston fight? The referee, Joe Walcott, seemed so taken aback by Liston going down and Ali dancing around Listons prone body, that he failed to start a count. By the time Ali got to a neutral corner and Walcott started to count, Nat Fleisher of Ring Magazine called to Walcott from ringside and told Joe that the Timekeeper had already counted Liston out. In the meantime, Liston had gotten up and had resumed fighting . Then Walcott ran over and raised Ali's hand.
So the question here isn't if Padillia's count was slow. The question is, what was the Timekeepers count when Pac got up?

[ChampionsForever]

How could he take Morales, best punches yet nearly get sparked by a jab :patsch

[Sting]

How could he take Morales, best punches yet nearly get sparked by a jab :patsch

I think its all about the placing of the punch rather than the power behind it.

[Nestea]

Hussein got deducted because of his dirty tactics, Watch the whole fight before judging.

[Morrissey]

The funny thing was, Larios beat this Hussein guy.

Though no doubt, Hussein is a very tough SOB.

[theunderdog]

What was really bizarre is when he deducted a point from hussein because Pac was holding excessively.:rofl

Dam, pac looked STUNNED after that left hook I think it was. So what if pac should have another loss on his record, it doesnt take away from what he has accomplished before, or since. Who cares if nedal hussein has pac's number.:yep

it was not a left hook. it was a jab that sent him down

[theunderdog]

The funny thing was, Larios beat this Hussein guy.

Though no doubt, Hussein is a very tough SOB.

yup. and skinny kept on saying that he may lose to all these other guys but he knows for a fact that he'll beat pac in a rematch. sadly, it will never happen

[johnco]

What was really bizarre is when he deducted a point from hussein because Pac was holding excessively.:rofl

Dam, pac looked STUNNED after that left hook I think it was. So what if pac should have another loss on his record, it doesnt take away from what he has accomplished before, or since. Who cares if nedal hussein has pac's number.:yep

another red manures "under the carpet" solace when it comes to pac !!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
you are getting cheaper by the minute youll cling to any flea market deals just to cover up your depression when it comes to pac beating up your heroes :hey :hey
too bad, your elites were sent to the grave by pac and last one will follow, that is sweet :yep :yep :yep :yep and I saw you wipe your tears with that flaggy of yours during mab, priceless :good

[reed_man02]

another red manures "under the carpet" solace when it comes to pac !!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
you are getting cheaper by the minute youll cling to any flea market deals just to cover up your depression when it comes to pac beating up your heroes :hey :hey
too bad, your elites were sent to the grave by pac and last one will follow, that is sweet :yep :yep :yep :yep and I saw you wipe your tears with that flaggy of yours during mab, priceless :good

Can someone please translate this for me?:huh I dont speak nuthugger.:yep

[johnco]

Can someone please translate this for me?:huh I dont speak nuthugger.:yep

yeah right, hater :yep

[PH|LLA]

no you can see he would've gotten up either way.

[PATSYS]

Pac of today would have blasted Hussein out in less than a round.