Heavyweight Matchups

[Bummy Davis]

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires

2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott

3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston

8) Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1)

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones

If the eras are very far off please blend the era's and differences like weight and training methods and rds 12- 15....13 rds...who would win and mixing the era's find some other interesting matchups

[ChrisPontius]

Some tough ones to predict. Here is my shot:

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires: I think Jeffries' chin was a bit untested against big punchers, but if it's as good as it seems, then i think he could weather the early storm and come back late for a knockout or decision win. If it's under Jeffries' ruleset, then Foreman's chances are slim. He'd probably break his hands early.


2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott : Dempsey will come on hard early, but Walcott showed against Marciano that he can be a fast starter. His chin is excellent (he survived many punchers) and i think his akward boxing skills and accurate right hand would find its way home more and more after then 5th when Jack slows down a bit.... i'm gonna go for the upset here, Walcott UD15.


3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza: LaStarza was an excellent boxer and probably ruined by Marciano, but Tunney is more proven; i'll take him by decision.

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling: Schmeling had a good right hand which Holmes was a bit susceptible to..... i see Max dropping Holmes on his ass somewhere with a right over the jab, but overal i think Holmes' stamina and speed will see him to a hard fought decision win.

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles: I think this fight would be very close for the first, say, 10 rounds. Let's not forget that a 35 year old Folley was even on the cards with a peak Ali until the 7th, and he did so by timing the right hand. Charles was a master boxer and i can see him having some succes, but he'd have to go to the body also, try to pin Ali on the ropes. I think Ali would edge it out in the championship rounds.

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier: I think this one would look a lot like Frazier vs Chuvalo or Frazier vs Ramos. Baer has the power, but i don't think he'll be able to land enough... and what's more, his defense is too weak and Frazier' connect rate will be over 50% with that hook. Frazier TKO5 Baer.

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston:Another tough one to predict because injuries cut Vitali's carreer short. Based on the fact that Liston is more proven i'd pick him by a tough decision, but by no means would i see a Klitschko win as a big upset. He's got the chin, power, stamina, speed, size and reach to give Liston heaps of trouble and i'd easily pick him over all of Liston's beaten opponents.

8) Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1): Another close fight... very hard to predict. As lightheavyweights i would rank Spinks higher, but this fight can go both ways.

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry:Quarry was at his best against big slow punchers, but Liston is a step above Shavers, Spencer and Foster. During the first four rounds, both would give as much as they took, but after that, i think Liston goes more to the jab and perhaps stop Quarry on cuts. I also thought Quarry's mentality was a bit weak in that he seemed to give up both Frazier fights, but then again, we all know what Liston did against Ali..... so let's say that evens out. Still, i'd go with Sonny.

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young: Interesting fight, how long does it go? If it's 15 rounds, i pick the upset and take Young by a close decision. Young did very well in the late 70's, he beat a prime Foreman by wide decision knocking him down, should've gotten the verdict against Ali and Shavers, beat Lyle twice and arguably beat Norton. Whatever happens, 12 or 15, i think this one would go the distance. Tyson can win a decision, especially over 12, but over 15, i think Young stands a good chance. One of the greatest defensive fighters in history.

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon: Depends entirely on the ruleset. If it's under modern rules, 12 or 15, i'd pick Witherspoon because his skillset is well suited to that; Johnson fought Ruiz-style. If it's over 25 rounds with small gloves and wrestling, i'd pick Johnson.

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones: If Dokes comes in top shape (and that's a big if), i think his handspeed would make the difference and see him cruise to a decision.

[Bummy Davis]

:good Very good senario Chris. I can see the fights playing out like you said

[ChrisPontius]

What are your thoughts particular on Spinks vs Conn? Both very skilled in a different way... if Conn fought that version of Holmes, he would've probably been champion too.

[groove]

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires - Foreman KO2

2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott - Demspey KO6

3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza - Tunney UD

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling - Holmes UD

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles - Ali KO10

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier - Frazier KO9

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston - Liston KO4

:cool: Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1) Spinks UD

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry Liston KO5

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young - Tyson KO2

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon - Johnson UD

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones - Jones UD

If the eras are very far off please blend the era's and differences like weight and training methods and rds 12- 15....13 rds...who would win and mixing the era's find some other interesting matchups

[Bummy Davis]

What are your thoughts particular on Spinks vs Conn? Both very skilled in a different way... if Conn fought that version of Holmes, he would've probably been champion too.


I think its an even matched fight, Spinks hit a bit harder but Billy was a good mover who gave you angles...I think the version of Louis, 1st fight was a more differcult fighter to beat the the version of Holmes that Spinks fought. However Spinks came out victorious and Conn did not. A fight between the 2 would be a close fought battle between 2 evenly match men with good whiskers. I think Billy could outhustle him but in 3 fights, I dont really know who would come out on top As far as Conn beating Holmes te night Spinks did, Yes I think Billy could have pulled it off also.

[Russell]

Quarry gave up against Frazier? Come again?

"Stop the fight, Joe!"

[Bummy Davis]

Quarry gave up against Frazier? Come again?

"Stop the fight, Joe!"

I agree with Chris, Quarry could be mentally stable and sucure in one fight but the fights vs Ali and Frazier looked like his will gave up on him. Monsters like Mac Foster 24-0 with 24 KO's Shavers, Spencer,Lyle,Alexander, good bangers, Quarry was like David vs Goliath but certain guys got to him in the mind

[OBCboxer]

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires-- Foreman UD

2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott-- Dempsey UD

3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza-- Tunney KO11

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling-- Schmeling TKO10

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles-- Ali UD (Charles tastes canvas though.)

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier-- Frazier KO7

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston-- Liston KO9

Mike Spinks vs Billy Conn-- Conn MD

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry-- Liston TKO8

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young-- Tyson TKO8-- Young HANGS ON 'til the 8th

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon-- Johnson TKO12

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones-- Top condition Dokes knocks him out in 4.

[radianttwilight]

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires - Foreman T(KO) 3

2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott - Walcott UD15

3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza - Tunney UD15

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling - Holmes SD15

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles - Ali SD15

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier - Frazier TKO11

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston - Liston TKO10

8) Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1) - Spinks TKO9

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry - Liston TKO11

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young - Tyson KO3

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon - Witherspoon UD15 (modern rules)

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones - Dokes TKO9

[zadfrak]

Agree with general consensus except I do see one upset here;

I'll take Vitali over Liston. I think that Klitschko size/strength/work ethic will be very tough on Sonny. Klitschko also has very underrated footwork and the guy lands a combo and moves. It sure isn't pretty, but it is extremely effective. Sonny has to plant those feet in there and I just don't see Vitali fighting a stupid fight and standing there and exchanging with the guy.

Sonny is a frontrunner type guy and looks devastating when everything is going his way. And not so good when things don't. Klitschko throws 60 punches a round and is a well conditioned tall guy that throws combos and moves. I just don't see Sonny having the footwork to chase the guy down to land enough of his own shots thru those octopus arms to get the win.

[Bummy Davis]

Agree with general consensus except I do see one upset here;

I'll take Vitali over Liston. I think that Klitschko size/strength/work ethic will be very tough on Sonny. Klitschko also has very underrated footwork and the guy lands a combo and moves. It sure isn't pretty, but it is extremely effective. Sonny has to plant those feet in there and I just don't see Vitali fighting a stupid fight and standing there and exchanging with the guy.

Sonny is a frontrunner type guy and looks devastating when everything is going his way. And not so good when things don't. Klitschko throws 60 punches a round and is a well conditioned tall guy that throws combos and moves. I just don't see Sonny having the footwork to chase the guy down to land enough of his own shots thru those octopus arms to get the win.


I THINK VITALI IMPROVED A LOT AND GAINED A LOT OF CONFIDENCE AFTER THE lEWIS FIGHT HE TOOK lEWIS BEST AND WAS AHEAD AT THE TIME,I CAN SEE VITALI BEATING LISTON AND IT COULD BE A STOPPAGE BEFORE THE 10TH, I THINK CHRIS ALSO SAID HE COULD SEE IT BU WAS CONCERNED WITH VITALI'S REPEATED INJURYS

[abraq]

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires - Foreman by stoppage in 6

2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott - Dempsey by close UD

3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza - Tunney by comfortable UD

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling - Larry Holmes by late stoppage or
convincing UD

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles - Ali by by late stoppage or
convincing UD

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier - Baer hurts Frazier early but is
then stopped in the 7th round

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston - Both takes punishment but the Liston
with the benefits of modern day
knowhow and substances is a
monster who is just too much for
Vitali who gets stopped in the 6th

8) Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1) - Spinks tko 11

9) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry - Liston tko 5

10) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young - Tyson by stoppage in the middle
rounds or by hard fought but clear
UD

11) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon - Johnson by UD. Remember he has
access to Witherspoon era
knowhow

12) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones - Dokes (prime) by SD

[RoccoMarciano]

Some tough ones to predict. Here is my shot:

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires: I think Jeffries' chin was a bit untested against big punchers, but if it's as good as it seems, then i think he could weather the early storm and come back late for a knockout or decision win. If it's under Jeffries' ruleset, then Foreman's chances are slim. He'd probably break his hands early.


2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott : Dempsey will come on hard early, but Walcott showed against Marciano that he can be a fast starter. His chin is excellent (he survived many punchers) and i think his akward boxing skills and accurate right hand would find its way home more and more after then 5th when Jack slows down a bit.... i'm gonna go for the upset here, Walcott UD15.


3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza: LaStarza was an excellent boxer and probably ruined by Marciano, but Tunney is more proven; i'll take him by decision.

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling: Schmeling had a good right hand which Holmes was a bit susceptible to..... i see Max dropping Holmes on his ass somewhere with a right over the jab, but overal i think Holmes' stamina and speed will see him to a hard fought decision win.

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles: I think this fight would be very close for the first, say, 10 rounds. Let's not forget that a 35 year old Folley was even on the cards with a peak Ali until the 7th, and he did so by timing the right hand. Charles was a master boxer and i can see him having some succes, but he'd have to go to the body also, try to pin Ali on the ropes. I think Ali would edge it out in the championship rounds.

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier: I think this one would look a lot like Frazier vs Chuvalo or Frazier vs Ramos. Baer has the power, but i don't think he'll be able to land enough... and what's more, his defense is too weak and Frazier' connect rate will be over 50% with that hook. Frazier TKO5 Baer.

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston:Another tough one to predict because injuries cut Vitali's carreer short. Based on the fact that Liston is more proven i'd pick him by a tough decision, but by no means would i see a Klitschko win as a big upset. He's got the chin, power, stamina, speed, size and reach to give Liston heaps of trouble and i'd easily pick him over all of Liston's beaten opponents.

8) Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1): Another close fight... very hard to predict. As lightheavyweights i would rank Spinks higher, but this fight can go both ways.

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry:Quarry was at his best against big slow punchers, but Liston is a step above Shavers, Spencer and Foster. During the first four rounds, both would give as much as they took, but after that, i think Liston goes more to the jab and perhaps stop Quarry on cuts. I also thought Quarry's mentality was a bit weak in that he seemed to give up both Frazier fights, but then again, we all know what Liston did against Ali..... so let's say that evens out. Still, i'd go with Sonny.

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young: Interesting fight, how long does it go? If it's 15 rounds, i pick the upset and take Young by a close decision. Young did very well in the late 70's, he beat a prime Foreman by wide decision knocking him down, should've gotten the verdict against Ali and Shavers, beat Lyle twice and arguably beat Norton. Whatever happens, 12 or 15, i think this one would go the distance. Tyson can win a decision, especially over 12, but over 15, i think Young stands a good chance. One of the greatest defensive fighters in history.

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon: Depends entirely on the ruleset. If it's under modern rules, 12 or 15, i'd pick Witherspoon because his skillset is well suited to that; Johnson fought Ruiz-style. If it's over 25 rounds with small gloves and wrestling, i'd pick Johnson.

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones: If Dokes comes in top shape (and that's a big if), i think his handspeed would make the difference and see him cruise to a decision.

This is a cool post in my view! I don't know a whole lot about 11, 12 ,or 13 to be honest, as I don't know a lot about one fighter or other.

Thanks for offering your insight! That's what this forum is all about.

[RoccoMarciano]

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires

2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott

3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston

8) Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1)

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones

If the eras are very far off please blend the era's and differences like weight and training methods and rds 12- 15....13 rds...who would win and mixing the era's find some other interesting matchups

Good matches regarding 1-10. I'm a little shakey regarding 11-13 due to my own lack of knowledge regarding one fighter or the other. Chris did a great job of explaining fights 1-10 in my book!.. I have no real argument with what he said.

[Bill1234]

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires- Jeffries ud, or Foreman early TKO (depending on the ref)

2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott- Dempsey KO 12. I think his pressure would wear Joe down after a while.

3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza- Tunney ud. I don't think Gene puts the tricky Roland away, but I think he wins a clear ud.

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling- Holmes ud or late TKO. The TKO being on swelling, again depends on the ref.

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles- Ali ud. He doesn't win huge, but he is the clear winner.

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier- Frazier TKO 10. He doesn't drop Max, but the fight is forced to be stopped by the massive punishment Baer is taking by the end. The first 5 rounds would be a slug fest though with Baer hurting Joe on multiple ocasions.

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston- Liston KO 9. I think Liston lands multiple huge shots to drop Vitali, then puts him down for good later in the round.

8) Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1)- Very tough fight, I'm gonna go the easy way out and say it's a pick em.

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry- Liston TKO/KO 8. He out slugs and out fights the over matched Jerry.

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young - Tyson ud. Fight is slightly closer than Tyson-Tillis.

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon- Johnson KO 34. J/k. Johnson ud.

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones- Dokes ud.

[Holmes' Jab]

My take:

1) George Foreman VS Jim Jeffires: Foreman, TKO9.

2) Jack Dempsey vs JJWalcott: Walcott, TKO11.

3) Gene Tunney vs Roland Lastarza: Tunney, UD.

4) Larry Holmes vs Max Schmeling: Holmes, close UD.

5) Ali vs Ezzard Charles: Ali, close UD.

6) Max Baer vs Joe Frazier: Frazier, TKO12.

7) Vitali K. VS Sonny Liston: Liston, TKO9.

8) Mike Spinks(Holmes 1) vs Billy Conn (Louis 1): Spinks, MD.

10) Sonny Liston vs Jerry Quarry: Liston TKO11.

11) Mike Tyson vs Jimmy Young: Tyson, UD.

12) Jack Johnson Vs Tim Witherspoon: Johnson, MD.

13) Mike Dokes vs Doug Jones: Dokes, TKO8.



... some fantastic matchups by the way. Not all of 'em were easy calls.

[SuzieQ49]

schmeling with that right hand........boy oh boy holmes better watch out. He sure was a sucker for that. Schmeling had one of the sneakiest.

[Holmes' Jab]

schmeling with that right hand........boy oh boy holmes better watch out. He sure was a sucker for that. Schmeling had one of the sneakiest.


Agree, Schmeling's power was immense and his delivery as you say cunning, the Shavers and Snipes fights give me confidence though that Larry would come though with a decision (though perhaps a tight one). Liston, Lewis and Tyson might be a different matter if they dropped Holmes as they were superior finishers and more skilled than a Shavers. In saying that, though on of Holmes' best assets was his stamina and resiliance, plus the fact he could still be dangerous when hurt, I think he'd be motivated and switched on enough against those two to try and minimise the chance of this happening. Liston, Lewis and Tyson are capable of dropping and finishing off virtually anybody, though: they'd perhaps only need that one opportunity.


Ps: Where would you rate Schmeling overall in comparison to the best opponents on Holmes record? I reckon he's right up there with them, very good fighter. :good