Where does Miranda rank at 168lbs?

[Pantera2000]

Where would you place him based on what he has done at 160lbs and how he has looked so far at 168lbs.....

[Amsterdam]

Outside of the top 10.

[IntentionalButt]

I like Edison, stop doing him the disservice of overrating him at every turn.

Porras and Banks are not a ticket to the top ten. :lol:

[brooklyn1550]

Based on what he's done? Outside of the top 15
Based on his ability? Top 15

[Pantera2000]

OK... Name 10 fighters that you would favor over him that fight at 168lbs.

[Pantera2000]

..................

[Amsterdam]

Based on what he's done? Outside of the top 15
Based on his ability? Top 15

I personally don't see him defeating many in the top 10. He nailed Porras with endless amounts of flush right hands and the fight was stopped on accumulation, not a real KO.

The Banks KO happens(a guy who was stunned by Paul Smith mind you) and suddenly he can produce the same thing on BIG SMW's? No, not at all.

I wouldn't even make him the favourite against Robert Stieglitz.

[Pantera2000]

I personally don't see him defeating many in the top 10. He nailed Porras with endless amounts of flush right hands and the fight was stopped on accumulation, not a real KO.

The Banks KO happens(a guy who was stunned by Paul Smith mind you) and suddenly he can produce the same thing on BIG SMW's? No, not at all.

I wouldn't even make him the favourite against Robert Stieglitz.

:patsch

[brooklyn1550]

I wouldn't even make him the favourite against Robert Stieglitz.

How about Jean Pascal?

[Amsterdam]

OK... Name 10 fighters that you would favor over him that fight at 168lbs.

Sure thing mate -

Mikkel Kessler
Lucien Bute
Anthony Mundine
Carl Froch
Denis Inkin
Librado Andrade
Vitali Tyspko
Juergen Braehmer
Sakio Bika
Karoly Balzay

Then, here's a few who I personally pick but don't make a definite favourite -

Jeff Lacy
Robert Stieglitz
Alejandro Berrio
Yusaf Mack

[Amsterdam]

How about Jean Pascal?

Nah, Pascal gets KTFO. Stieglitz actually has boxing skills and Miranda doesn't crack nearly as hard as Berrio does, so I pick Stieglitz in a toss up.

Miranda losing the 1st round to Banks and having issue with Porras is all you need to know about his standing at SMW.

And I KNOW this fucking division like the back of my hand, it's one of the deepest in boxing and is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the MW division Miranda came out of, non-european fans just don't know how deep this mother fucker is.

Even an average SMW like Braehmer on his best night would be enough to KTFO Kelly Pavlik and outbox Abraham.

[brooklyn1550]

OK... Name 10 fighters that you would favor over him that fight at 168lbs.

Joe Calzaghe
Mikkel Kessler
Anthony Mundine
Lucian Bute
Carl Froch
Dennis Inkin
Librado Andrade
Jurgen Braehmer
Vitali Tsypko
Jermain Taylor

[brooklyn1550]

Nah, Pascal gets KTFO.

I was picking Pascal by decision before his last fight. But immediately after, I changed by mind. Miranda would eventually find his chin and crack it.

[Amsterdam]

Joe Calzaghe
Mikkel Kessler
Anthony Mundine
Lucian Bute
Carl Froch
Dennis Inkin
Librado Andrade
Jurgen Braehmer
Vitali Tsypko
Jermain Taylor

I didn't even mention Supernatural Joe, because putting Miranda's name in a match up discussion with Joe is an insult to a soon to be ATG.:yep :good

And I'm serious Brooklyn, all of those guys I listed would smash him, most by stoppage. Imagine Mundine vs. Miranda, who had trouble with Porras and lost arguably two rounds to Banks before the KO, Miranda would get molested.:yep

Most here would take Miranda over Mundine, showing that they know nothing about the division. Mundine is fighting nobody now, but he was thrown in with the sharks really early and overall has fought fabulous competition and has some good wins himself, Miranda can't even compare.

[brooklyn1550]

I didn't even mention Supernatural Joe, because putting Miranda's name in a match up discussion with Joe is an insult to a soon to be ATG.:yep :good

And I'm serious Brooklyn, all of those guys I listed would smash him, most by stoppage. Imagine Mundine vs. Miranda, who had trouble with Porras and lost arguably two rounds to Banks before the KO, Miranda would get molested.:yep

I will admit that I'm a fan of Edison, but he would have no answer for Mundine's movement and handspeed. He's far too crude.

Andrade-Miranda would be fun while it lasted, but Andrade's physical strength, chin, and endless stamina would see him through to a mid round stoppage.

You may not agree with this, but I'd pick Jermain Taylor over him too.

[Amsterdam]

:patsch

Don't slapface at me, you don't know anything about the SMW division. At MW, I said Miranda was a top fighter and was entertaining and that I hoped he could make MW for as long as he can because the SMW division would be the end of him if he fought anybody decent there.

The level of talent between MW to SMW is absurdly wide in difference.

Compare - Kessler, Inkin, Bute, Froch, Mundine, Braehmer, Tyspko, Lacy, Bika & Andrade to...

Abraham, Pavlik, Wright, Duddy, Sturm, Carrera...


Big difference in class, maybe he's got a shot vs. Taylor, a MW veteran no less.

[brooklyn1550]

Do you think Pavlik could do any better than Miranda at super middleweight? Or would it mark the end?

[Amsterdam]

I will admit that I'm a fan of Edison, but he would have no answer for Mundine's movement and handspeed. He's far too crude.

Andrade-Miranda would be fun while it lasted, but Andrade's physical strength, chin, and endless stamina would see him through to a mid round stoppage.

You may not agree with this, but I'd pick Jermain Taylor over him too.

Hell, ME TOO, Miranda is simply not that good, he's just a fun, powerful TV fighter that has a big warrior heart and an entertaining mouth.

I give Miranda a shot at Taylor, but I'd lay a bet down on Taylor by UD anyday of the week, maybe that shows you what I think of Miranda's abilities....:yep

[Amsterdam]

Do you think Pavlik could do any better than Miranda at super middleweight? Or would it mark the end?

No, which is my point, Taylor is in the same boat also.

These SMW guys are GOOD, some of them, like Tyspko and Braehmer have little to no TV coverage, but I would assure you in good faith that if they both brought their best, they'd be the rightful favourite over all 3 of these guys and by KO.

Then go a level up to Inkin, Froch, Bute and you've go assured wins here.

Then Mundine, Kessler and god forbid, CALZAGHE, give me a break. MW is a shallow division with deep history, that's why people are under the belief that it's better than SMW, which is total horseshit.

Mate, I really give the current, totally, totally shot Rob Reid a chance over Edison Miranda, no lie. Miranda won't KO him because he has such a low workrate and no delivery speed, so he'll have to deal with what's left of Reid's timing and skills and I think it'll be a close one for Reid.:yep

[psychopath]

Where would you place him based on what he has done at 160lbs and how he has looked so far at 168lbs.....

You just can't take your mouth off Miranda's dick don't you. :-(

You are talking of his rankings at 168 and yet you are including his performance at 160? WTF?

At 160 he lost to a title holder in Abraham and got trashed by a rated #1 contender in Pavlik . . . AT 168 he fought 2 tomato cans who are not inside the top 10 ratings . . . now what kind of answer are you expecting? :think

The guy is just another exciting action fighter . . . I'm not taking that away from him but anybody who would put him in the top 10 after just 2 fights with tomato cans . . . is a dellusional fool.

:rofl :rofl :rofl

[brooklyn1550]

MW is a shallow division with deep history, that's why people are under the belief that it's better than SMW, which is total horseshit.

Mate, I really give the current, totally, totally shot Rob Reid a chance over Edison Miranda, no lie. Miranda won't KO him because he has such a low workrate and no delivery speed, so he'll have to deal with what's left of Reid's timing and skills and I think it'll be a close one for Reid.:yep

Agreed. The middleweight division is rich in its history, but the current/recent crop (Pavlik, Taylor, Abraham, Miranda) wouldn't have too much success at higher weight classes. None of them are even close to the level of the Hagler, Hopkins, and Monzon's of the world. There is absolutely no doubt that SMW is deeper and that the top fighters are better schooled.

Robin Reid, huh? I haven't seen him fight since Jeff Lacy to be truthful. I'll take a look at Froch-Reid tomorrow.

[billyconn]

Agreed. The middleweight division is rich in its history, but the current/recent crop (Pavlik, Taylor, Abraham, Miranda) wouldn't have too much success at higher weight classes. None of them are even close to the level of the Hagler, Hopkins, and Monzon's of the world. There is absolutely no doubt that SMW is deeper and that the top fighters are better schooled.

Robin Reid, huh? I haven't seen him fight since Jeff Lacy to be truthful. I'll take a look at Froch-Reid tomorrow.

When B-Hop beat Calzaghe lots of impressions will change....:good

[tays001]

man i have him in the top ten becaus e he's done more then jt and he beat green at 162 wich is considerd smw. so i got him at 10

[billyconn]

man i have him in the top ten becaus e he's done more then jt and he beat green at 162 wich is considerd smw. so i got him at 10

JT beat B-Hop 2x and was middleweight champ.....but Miranda has done more....:lol:

[tays001]

JT beat B-Hop 2x and was middleweight champ.....but Miranda has done more....:lol: AT 168 he has fucking dumb ass. :good

what has jt done at 168 ?

thats right a loss to the 160 lb champ.:hi:

[tays001]

sorry but past acolades don't get ranked in a new weight divison when you last fight at your previous weight was a loss. miranda has done more then jt at 168 plain and simple so i got him at 10. plus he's been more impresive then pascal

[billyconn]

sorry but past acolades don't get ranked in a new weight divison when you last fight at your previous weight was a loss. miranda has done more then jt at 168 plain and simple so i got him at 10. plus he's been more impresive then pascal

it's a mere formality until JT fights at 168.....JT is much higher on a P4P list.....:good

[brooklyn1550]

When B-Hop beat Calzaghe lots of impressions will change....:good

First of all, Calzaghe will beat Hopkins with relative ease. And I'm saying this as a decade long Hopkins fan who will be rooting for him. Second, what impressions are you referring to? I never said Hopkins couldn't have moved up and been great at 168 - he could have. Pavlik, Taylor, Abraham, and Miranda are the middleweights who couldn't.

[billyconn]

First of all, Calzaghe will beat Hopkins. And I'm saying this as a decade long Hopkins fan who will be rooting for him. Second, what impressions are you referring to? I never said Hopkins couldn't have moved up and been great at 168 - he could have. Pavlik, Taylor, Abraham, and Miranda are the middleweights who couldn't.



I hope Kessler fights Taylor, because I think JT will beat Kessler......

Pavlik when he decides to move up to 168 will do just fine.....

B-Hop will be Joe C's hardest match in quite a while...it won't b pretty....

[brooklyn1550]

I hope Kessler fights Taylor, because I think JT will beat Kessler......

Pavlik when he decides to move up to 168 will do just fine.....

Pavlik and Taylor are quality fighters, but a level below Mikkel Kessler.

[billyconn]

Pavlik and Taylor are quality fighters, but a level below Mikkel Kessler.


Hopefully Kessler will fight Taylor or even Miranda......it'll answer some questions.....

Pavlik is only going to get better.....:yep

[TomaTos]

Sure thing mate -

Mikkel Kessler
Lucien Bute
Anthony Mundine
Carl Froch
Denis Inkin
Librado Andrade
Vitali Tyspko
Juergen Braehmer
Sakio Bika
Karoly Balzay

Then, here's a few who I personally pick but don't make a definite favourite -

Jeff Lacy
Robert Stieglitz
Alejandro Berrio
Yusaf Mack

I dont understand why people think that Bika is better than Berrio, ive seen Bute fight both, and Berrio was much more busier and hit a lot harder. I actually pick Berrio to beat Balzay, Bika, Braehmer, Tsypko, Andrade, not sure about Inkin or Froch.

BTW, Stieglitz will beat Andrade, mark my word !

[PedroDePacas]

I dont understand why people think that Bika is better than Berrio, ive seen Bute fight both, and Berrio was much more busier and hit a lot harder. I actually pick Berrio to beat Balzay, Bika, Braehmer, Tsypko, Andrade, not sure about Inkin or Froch.

BTW, Stieglitz will beat Andrade, mark my word !
I like Sakio but I don't pick him to beat Miranda. Brooklyn, I notice you left him out of your list.

[PedroDePacas]

Mind you, Bika-Miranda should be a great fight.

[Maxime]

I have him in 9th position in my top15 so I guess that makes him a top10.

[Haye]

Just outside top 10, but has potential to be much higher

[Decebal]

I have him on 10 or 11, depending whether Calzaghe is ranked or not.

1. Joe - Champion (WBC, WBA, WBO)
2. Mikkel
.............
3.-4. Lucian (IBF), Choc,
5. Taylor*
..............
6.-8. Froch, Andrade, Inkin
..............
9.-12. Tsypko, Sakio, Miranda, Braehmer
...............
13.-16. Lacy, Green, Stieglitz, Pascal

*benefit of the doubt

Making Miranda Top 8 or better is mad, I think.

[Pantera2000]

I will admit that I'm a fan of Edison, but he would have no answer for Mundine's movement and handspeed. He's far too crude.

Andrade-Miranda would be fun while it lasted, but Andrade's physical strength, chin, and endless stamina would see him through to a mid round stoppage.

You may not agree with this, but I'd pick Jermain Taylor over him too.

JT is taylor made for Pantera!

[marauder1999]

Better quit calling out kessler first off..

[TFFP]

Not that high, he's nothing more than a test for the good supermiddles out there. He has little to no boxing ability and is one handed. Furthermore, his power isn't all its cracked up to be at this weight

[brooklyn1550]

JT is taylor made for Pantera!

I don't see that to be honest. Taylor is a smarter fighter now than he was in his last few fights. He would be sure to keep the fight in the center of the ring, establish his jab, beat Miranda to the punch, and keep his hands higher to watch out for the big right hand. To win, Miranda would need to show vast improvement. By that I mean more body punching, better footwork to cut off the ring, better defense, a less telegraphed right hand, and a solid left jab.

As it stands, I'd take Taylor by UD (but would be rooting for a Miranda KO)

[Decebal]

brooklyn1550, why do you like Miranda so much? He couldn't even beat AA, who fought for 7 rounds - 21 minutes with a broken jaw - he could barely keep his mouthguard in his mouth was so swollen and open!:-(

[2ironmt]

even fightnews has him at 5 or 6

[Decebal]

even fightnews has him at 5 or 6

Yeah...and their rankings are shocking!:-(

[Pantera2000]

brooklyn1550, why do you like Miranda so much? He couldn't even beat AA, who fought for 7 rounds - 21 minutes with a broken jaw - he could barely keep his mouthguard in his mouth was so swollen and open!:-(

:nono Oh, you forgot to mention his baby sitter was in the ring with him making sure he did not get hurt.

[Decebal]

:nono Oh, you forgot to mention his baby sitter was in the ring with him making sure he did not get hurt.

...and then there was the Porras fight...Porras was awful and he gave Miranda a close run...

Well, at least Miranda KOd Banks with one punch, eh!? What further proof is needed that Kessler is his bitch?

[PH|LLA]

the ring does not have Miranda in their top10 but i have him at around 10

[Decebal]

the ring does not have Miranda in their top10 but i have him at around 10

I think he is on the cusp of the Top 10. Hard to be sure though, and I admit I give him the benefit of the doubt...for all I know...Berrio could beat him, Stieglitz too, Allan Green too...etc...and these are not in my top 10.

[Pantera2000]

the ring does not have Miranda in their top10 but i have him at around 10

The ring had him at #10 until Taylor moved up and took the spot. Before Miranda, Pascal held the #10 position. But the ring also has Allan Green, Jeff Lacy and Sakio Bika ranked top 10. I can see the others deserving to be there above Edison, but no way these 3...

[Pantera2000]

...and then there was the Porras fight...Porras was awful and he gave Miranda a close run...

Well, at least Miranda KOd Banks with one punch, eh!? What further proof is needed that Kessler is his bitch?

Let's not forget that Porras KO'd former champ Berrios.
Miranda also stopped Porras earlier than anyone, including Kessler, Froch and Braehmer.

[sean]

Based on what he's done? Outside of the top 15
Based on his ability? Top 15

i am on the first page and have 4 pages to go but this sums up miranda`s position perfectly.

[Decebal]

Let's not forget that Porras KO'd former champ Berrios.
Miranda also stopped Porras earlier than anyone, including Kessler, Froch and Braehmer.

Yeah...that is why he is in my top 10...but his comments about Kessler are completely out of order; he turned himself into a laughing stock...a joke...

...Look at Bute, for example...clearly a top fighter in the division...he says about Kessler: I have still a long way to go to give Kessler a good close fight; a lot to learn, much to improve on...THIS is what Miranda should be saying...not calling Kessler names when the only thing he proved is that he is about as good as Bika - who also puts up a good fight but fails whenever he steps up. Look at the way Bika talks about Kessler, Calzaghe...etc...

[this bloke]

id have miranda top 15 but not top 10
and the top echelon in the division would all beat him convincingly but i guess the way he fights he always has a punchers chance even though i think his power is overrated a bit

[Pantera2000]

Yeah...that is why he is in my top 10...but his comments about Kessler are completely out of order; he turned himself into a laughing stock...a joke...

...Look at Bute, for example...clearly a top fighter in the division...he says about Kessler: I have still a long way to go to give Kessler a good close fight; a lot to learn, much to improve on...THIS is what Miranda should be saying...not calling Kessler names when the only thing he proved is that he is about as good as Bika - who also puts up a good fight but fails whenever he steps up. Look at the way Bika talks about Kessler, Calzaghe...etc...

Bute hasnt faced anyone in the same caliber as Miranda. He should say these things. Miranda went to war with two champions, arguably beating one fair and sqaure. He is confident and WANTS the best fights now. Bute should be embarrassed for who he is fighting. He is a champion now so start acting like one. Pick the best that will fight you and make it happen.

[2ironmt]

obviously this discussion about ranking Miranda at 168 relates to Miranda calling out Kessler about turning down hbo/showtime fight. it appears that many kessler (and calzaghe) fans are going to great lenghts to downgrade miranda's relevance at 168 so that kessler doesn't look bad turning down good money to fight him. whereever miranda's ranked (and it can't be too far down), he has interest and excitement now in the division and apparently major networks willing to promote his fight, that's all that should matter to 'prizefighters.' kessler should take the fight unless he's got a line on a title fight. btw, has he responded yet?

[LiamE]

obviously this discussion about ranking Miranda at 168 relates to Miranda calling out Kessler about turning down hbo/showtime fight. it appears that many kessler (and calzaghe) fans are going to great lenghts to downgrade miranda's relevance at 168 so that kessler doesn't look bad turning down good money to fight him. whereever miranda's ranked (and it can't be too far down), he has interest and excitement now in the division and apparently major networks willing to promote his fight, that's all that should matter to 'prizefighters.' kessler should take the fight unless he's got a line on a title fight. btw, has he responded yet?

I think we should reserve judgement on that till we see who Kessler actually gets lined up with.

[brooklyn1550]

brooklyn1550, why do you like Miranda so much? He couldn't even beat AA, who fought for 7 rounds - 21 minutes with a broken jaw - he could barely keep his mouthguard in his mouth was so swollen and open!:-(

:huh I like him, but not that much.

He's had a difficult upbringing, brings 100 percent every time out, and hits hard. Is he limited? Yes. He's extremely limited to be honest with you, but he's a fun guy to watch.

[Decebal]

:huh I like him, but not that much.

He's had a difficult upbringing, brings 100 percent every time out, and hits hard. Is he limited? Yes. He's extremely limited to be honest with you, but he's a fun guy to watch.

I admire him for what he's achieved given his start in life and I like the fact he'll fight anyone, but I strongly dislike the way he tries to put superior fighters and better men than him down to make himself look better - childish and laughable.

[joe the great]

top 15 or higher

[brooklyn1550]

I admire him for what he's achieved given his start in life and I like the fact he'll fight anyone, but I strongly dislike the way he tries to put superior fighters and better men than him down to make himself look better - childish and laughable.

He's just a primative/tough guy who likes to talk. I don't take it seriously.

[Decebal]

He's just a primative/tough guy who likes to talk. I don't take it seriously.

Neither do I! I laugh at him - he's a joke to me, saying Kessler "tucked his tail between his legs", "he’s not even worthy of carrying my gloves", "Kessler the Kitten", "you know you can’t beat me, that’s why you won’t take this fight", "I challenge any of the so called top supermiddleweight contenders to step up and fight Pantera, but I doubt any of you have the guts.”

If HE had guts, he would call out Bika or Andrade to prove himself worthy of a potential fight against Kessler. He's all mouth - a joke...:-(

[rendog67]

im giving him benefit of the doubt and saying top ten

[huki]

I admire him for what he's achieved given his start in life and I like the fact he'll fight anyone, but I strongly dislike the way he tries to put superior fighters and better men than him down to make himself look better - childish and laughable. I've always loved cheering for Miranda and his trash talk is funny/entertaining. I don't mind a guy who fights anyone and gives it his all every time sounding like a WWF character in interviews, because the guy delivers. But yeah, he's barely top 10 at SMW, if even that. Hopefully the Pascal matchup can be made if Jean isn't still hiding in Canada.

[Baby_Bull]

top 10