Steve Cunningham: Haye fights like an amateur

[BigReg]

BT – David Haye was talking some smack about you, do you have anything that you would like to say to him in return?

SC – My record speaks for itself. I have been fighting top 10 guys since 2004. When he goes to heavyweight he won't fight top 10 guys like I have done for years already. He's doing a lot of talking, a lot of big talk just to look big. He did do a good job against Enzo Maccarinelli, but look, who has Enzo beat? Look at his record. Enzo was given a belt, I wasn't given a belt. To correct David Haye, I wasn't given any belt. I didn't win a vacant title, I fought Krzysztof Wlodarczyk, they cheated, and I got the immediate rematch, and I took the belt from him. Then I defended my title against an undefeated powerhouse in Marco Huck. I understand why Haye fought the English guy, but don't try to downplay me like I am nobody, he knows exactly who I am

BT – What would happen if you do get a chance to fight David Haye?

SC – Man, David Haye looks like an amateur fighter in there. His name is the “Hayemaker”, and that's all he does is throw big shots. Listen, that's like sparring to me, fighting him would be like sparring to me. We dismantled powerful fighters, David Haye is not a smart fighter, he's just a puncher. Boxing consists of power shots, ability, ring generalship, and boxing skills. David Haye only has one of those, power. Take that away from him, and he has nothing. I will shut him down, plain and simple

BT – What's next for you?

SC – If David Haye continues to lie to himself, and talk as if he cleaned up the cruiserweight division he will have to come through me first. Last time I checked I have the IBF title in my trophy case in my living room. He doesn't want to try to walk through me though, that's obvious. All he can do is talk about me, that's all he wants to do. If David Haye wants to be the TRUE undisputed champion, you have to come through me. The IBF is one of the most recognized belts in the world. Let's set this fight up before the end of May. He only fought 2 rounds a few days ago, he said he made the weight easy, so lets do this.

BT – Would you fight David Haye in England?

SC – Indeed I would. The “USS” Cunningham engines are ready, they are running. If that's what it takes for him to come out from hiding, we'll fight him in England. How many times has he fought abroad? One time against old man Mormeck. A true champion has an outstanding resume, and has been in situations where it looked like he was going to lose a fight, and then ended up winning a fight. That's a TRUE champion.

[Farmboxer]

I think he is correct.

[andyZOR]

Cunningham owns. 8)

[iceman]

Cunningham fought well against the overrated Huck but Haye is on a different level to Huck.Cunningham doesn't have enough power to even bother Haye.
Haye KO6

[Illmatic]

Cunningham fought well against the overrated Huck but Haye is on a different level to Huck.Cunningham doesn't have enough power to even bother Haye.
Haye KO6

Thats what I was thinking...Cunningham has good boxing skills, but almost always punches off of the back foot

[I_Neutral]

He is right about one thing........to be the TRUE undisputed cruiser champ he needs to fight him.

It would be a great fight but USS's lack of notoriety will be a huge setback in the making of this fight and of course Haye's wanting to go heavy.

Hope they do get it on later on this year.

[Fallow]

Haye IS the true Cruiserweight Champion you cum-buckets. This must have been done a 1000 times already and still people fail to understand that O'Neil Bell vacated the IBF belt to face Mormech again, who he lost to, and who then went on to beat Mormeck? That's right, David Haye. He is the true Cruiserweight Champion, anyone who says otherwise deserves to be corn-holed for their idiocy.

As for Cunningham's hot air, he's a complete fucking NOBODY who is about as important to David Haye as Lucian Bute is to Joe Calzaghe when he moved up.

Poor old Cunningham, he's now left to fight for vacated titles now that the King has moved up, that must hurt like a bitch, but not nearly as much as the hurt Haye would put on his sorry ass.

[Axe]

Cunningham is a far bigger threat to Haye than Enzo ever was.

Great fight.

[PH|LLA]

Cunningham is just another Jeff Lacy, probably even worse.

[IntentionalButt]

Cunningham is just another Jeff Lacy, probably even worse.

How's that?

[Loggo]

Haye IS the true Cruiserweight Champion you cum-buckets. This must have been done a 1000 times already and still people fail to understand that O'Neil Bell vacated the IBF belt to face Mormech again, who he lost to, and who then went on to beat Mormeck? That's right, David Haye. He is the true Cruiserweight Champion, anyone who says otherwise deserves to be corn-holed for their idiocy.

As for Cunningham's hot air, he's a complete fucking NOBODY who is about as important to David Haye as Lucian Bute is to Joe Calzaghe when he moved up.

Poor old Cunningham, he's now left to fight for vacated titles now that the King has moved up, that must hurt like a bitch, but not nearly as much as the hurt Haye would put on his sorry ass.:thumbsup Top comment,isn`t it as clear as day that Hayemaker is the the best?Even when he lost to Carl Thompson he only got stopped NOT sparked out and he completely knocked him around the ring in the first 4 rounds.Cunningham would throw punches that wouldn`t bother Haye and Haye would smash him with his.

[oblate]

Cunningham is just another Jeff Lacy, probably even worse.
he fights nothing like jeff lacy.

[PH|LLA]

he fights nothing like jeff lacy.
i'm not talking style i'm talking hype

[Amsterdam]

Thats what I was thinking...Cunningham has good boxing skills, but almost always punches off of the back foot

Cunningham is a good fighter, but he's going to get KTFO if Haye does indeed fight him for the last belt, and it'll be very fast too.

Cunningham is deceptive in that he looks good on film, but he is vulnerable in the same right. I think he's got a good chin, his defence is good(but he's hittable) and his boxing skills are very good. Power wise he's not very impressive.

Dropping rounds to Huck and Wlodarcyk is no big deal, but if you're fighting Haye next, it is quite a big deal because both guys landed clean on him and both guys are quite average. With Haye's timing and power...

[Amsterdam]

Cunningham is a far bigger threat to Haye than Enzo ever was.

Great fight.

Not so, because Cunningham has average punching power, not enough to really put a dent in Haye unless he starts opening up and really landing clean, which in turn leaves him open for Haye's bombs.

Enzo, being a puncher was just a minor, minor KO threat.

Cunningham can be tenative and isn't fast enough to outbox him, more of a case of you just favouring Americans over Europeans when it's a total mismatch.:yep

[sean]

biggest factor in this fight not happening, and a point cunningham never mentioned.

don king does not back cunninghams abilty with money.


wlodarcyck v cunningham went to purse bids.

don king bid £50 k

or 40 times less than what ****** paid for the macranelli v haye fight.

its obvious why cunningham would want some of that pie.

[Strike]

:lol:

I love the way Cunningham goes on about how he beat Huck. And who the fuck was Huck? Who had Huck beaten? Nobody, in 2006 he was still fighting the likes of Lee Swaby a British journeyman.

Huck had not beaten anyone of any note, he did manage a win over Rudiger May over 10 rounds, a guy who Herbie Hide starched in 2 rounds the other night.

Haye would batter Cunningham and get paid peanuts for doing it, with nobody in the US remotely interested in the fight and with zero need to take it because he is the man at Cruiser.

[Amsterdam]

:lol:

I love the way Cunningham goes on about how he beat Huck. And who the fuck was Huck? Who had Huck beaten? Nobody, in 2006 he was still fighting the likes of Lee Swaby a British journeyman.

Huck had not beaten anyone of any note, he did manage a win over Rudiger May over 10 rounds, a guy who Herbie Hide starched in 2 rounds the other night.

Haye would batter Cunningham and get paid peanuts for doing it, with nobody in the US remotely interested in the fight and with zero need to take it because he is the man at Cruiser.

Cunningham is good, but is automatically given the benefit of the doubt due to being American. The Huck win was nothing special and it's used as a credit, the same goes for beating Wlodarcyzk, a European fighter crushing either wouldn't garner the same credit.

[maciek4]

I dont like when posters use this term

"He has beaten nobody" or "Who has he beaten?"

Why are Huck and Wlodarczyk not credible names and Maccarinelli is? come on. Huck beat Vadim Tokarev who is a credible name, the guy who easily beat Darnel Wilson btw :D

[T.C.W]

The will not happen and Haye has much bigger fish to fry at HW

[Decebal]

Cunningham is wanting that payday badly!:yep

[Amsterdam]

I dont like when posters use this term

"He has beaten nobody" or "Who has he beaten?"

Why are Huck and Wlodarczyk not credible names and Maccarinelli is? come on. Huck beat Vadim Tokarev who is a credible name, the guy who easily beat Darnel Wilson btw :D

Huck and Wladarczyk and Macca are probably all on the same plane with different strengths, the difference is that Cunningham had trouble with both, dropped a loss to one and Haye's coming off a KO of Mormeck(superior to Huck and Wlodarcyzk by a bit) and a destruction of Macca.

Haye vs. Cunningham is a mismatch, because Cunningham is just slightly superior to Wlodarcyzk and Huck, but a guy like Cunningham will inevitably be given more credit for decent wins on this side of the pond more so than Euro's getting great wins.

What's a better win? A close win over a B level guy, or a blowout over a B level guy, or a grinding down tactical effort vs. a B- guy where you dropped a few rounds? Or a KO over a B+ guy who has a stylistic advantage on you(Mormeck)?

[Haye]

Cunningham is just another Jeff Lacy, probably even worse.

Overrated maybe, but I cant understand people saying skilled fighters like Dawson, or Cunningham are the new Jeff Lacy. They are far too skilled to ever get 'Lacied' by someone even as good as Calzaghe.

[Amsterdam]

Overrated maybe, but I cant understand people saying skilled fighters like Dawson, or Cunningham are the new Jeff Lacy. They are far too skilled to ever get 'Lacied' by someone even as good as Calzaghe.

No, he'd just be blown out in a couple of rounds by Haye.

[Smith]

Come on guys, Haye would KO Steve handily.

No matter what, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ANOTHER #1 CONTENDER TO FIGHT AFTER THE NEXT ONE, ALWAYS

[Smith]

Cunningham is wanting that payday badly!:yepPrecisely.

[MattMattMatt]

As already mentioned, anyone who thinks that Haye isn't the undisputed champion must be a certified nutter! The only reason he doesn't have all the belts is because of boxing politics. If O'Neil Bell hadn't been stripped by the retarded IBF for deciding to fight a rematch with the number one contender then Haye would now hold all the belts and none of this would matter. Haye is not ducking Cunningham to go and fight with Wladimir Klitschko, Samuel Peter and co!

[Cobbler]

Enzo was given a belt, I wasn't given a belt. To correct David Haye, I wasn't given any belt. I didn't win a vacant title, I fought Krzysztof Wlodarczyk, they cheated, and I got the immediate rematch, and I took the belt from him.

WTF is that? That's absolutely fucking ridiculous. The title was vacant, it was stripped from Bell. The only reason Cunningham can say it didn't technically win a vacant title is because he lost to Wlodarczyk before he beat him. How the fuck does that make you a more legitimate champion than just winning the thing in the first place.

And Huck an 'undefeated powerhouse'?! :lol:

Cunningham just went down in my estimation a notch.

Simple question for the Cunningham fan(s): What are Cunningham's people doing to back up this talk. Namely, how many millions do they have on the table? Otherwise, it's just talk.

[Decebal]

WTF is that? That's absolutely fucking ridiculous. The title was vacant, it was stripped from Bell. The only reason Cunningham can say it didn't technically win a vacant title is because he lost to Wlodarczyk before he beat him. How the fuck does that make you a more legitimate champion than just winning the thing in the first place.

And Huck an 'undefeated powerhouse'?! :lol:

Cunningham just went down in my estimation a notch.

Simple question for the Cunningham fan(s): What are Cunningham's people doing to back up this talk. Namely, how many millions do they have on the table? Otherwise, it's just talk.

Even if they wanted to, they couldn't put millions on the table because this fight doesn't make millions. Also, they couldn't hope to recoup the money in future if SC somehow won - the division doesn't have big stars.

[Cobbler]

Even if they wanted to, they couldn't put millions on the table because this fight doesn't make millions. Also, they couldn't hope to recoup the money in future if SC somehow won - the division doesn't have big stars.

I know. And there's the bottom line. Cunningham has no intention of fighting Haye, he knows it won't happen as he brings nothing to the table and if he's not completely delusional he knows he'd be sparked.

He's just trying to cash in on somebody elses success and star quality to gain a bit of cheap publicity for himself.

[Decebal]

I know. And there's the bottom line. Cunningham has no intention of fighting Haye, he knows it won't happen as he brings nothing to the table and if he's not completely delusional he knows he'd be sparked.

He's just trying to cash in on somebody elses success and star quality to gain a bit of cheap publicity for himself.

Precisely!

[randeris]

Why are you all talking about like you have to hit big to beat David Haye? He could outbox him.. With Hayes shockingly bad stamina, he could win a decision.. I don't think Cunningham would last though, but Haye should just take the fight so there is nothing that can be said.

[Decebal]

Why are you all talking about like you have to hit big to beat David Haye? He could outbox him.. With Hayes shockingly bad stamina, he could win a decision.. I don't think Cunningham would last though, but Haye should just take the fight so there is nothing that can be said.

Nah...Cunninghamn could not hurt him and he's be out for the shower by the fourth round, for sure...pointless to even talk about this fight. Haye had nothing to prove in the division after Mormeck and he certainly hasn't anything to prove now, especially not to Cunningham.

[DamonD]

I know. And there's the bottom line. Cunningham has no intention of fighting Haye, he knows it won't happen as he brings nothing to the table and if he's not completely delusional he knows he'd be sparked.

He's just trying to cash in on somebody elses success and star quality to gain a bit of cheap publicity for himself.
Totally right, it's just the same stuff as ****** was doing with Enzo before he got duped into signing the Haye fight.

It doesn't matter a damn how ready the “USS” Cunningham engines are, this simply is a fight that's not going to happen.

If him and his fans want to believe it's because Haye is somehow terrified of him then they're welcome to that little slice of insanity. In the real world, everyone knows that Haye has his sights set on the HW divison and simply does not want to spend any more time in a division where he is already seen as the number one guy.

Cunningham has absolutely nothing Haye wants.

[PowerPuncher]

Haye's ducking Cunningham to fight bums like Wlad Klitchko, Vitali and Sam Peter

BTW Cunningham is a paper champ, David Haye is the Man, Linear Champ, Ring Champ, WBC, WBA, WBO

[rusticraver]

This would last about a round, If you haven't got power to keep Haye off your in serious trouble

[BigReg]

I'm seeing a lot of bullshit in this thread. First, I see some are falsly claiming that Bell vacated the IBF belt. That's not true. He was stripped in April of 2006 for not fighting his mandatory challenger. And who was his mando? That's right, Steve Cunningham. So if Bell does the right thing and fights Cunningham, Cunningham might very well have all 3 major titles right now; making him a true undisputed champion. And to those claiming that Bell didn't fight Cunningham because he wanted to rematch Mormeck, that's also not true. Bell beat Mormeck in Jan. 2006, was stripped in April of 2006, and didn't fight Mormeck again until March of 2007. This guy sat around for over a year and fought nobody, yet you guys call the IBF corrupt for stripping him.

I also see people posting that it's convienant that Cunningham calls out Haye now. When was he supposed to call him out? Haye won the belts in November. By that time, Cunningham had a fight setup against Huck. Cunningham beat Huck in late December. By the time Cunningham beat Huck, Haye was signed to fight Maca(despite claiming he was moving up in weight). In early January, Cunningham went on a Philly radio station and said he wanted the winner of Haye/Macca. Later that month(or maybe early Feb), he went on ESPN and restated that he wanted the winner of Haye/Macca. So let's not act as if he's not serious here. Not only is he callng him out, he's proposing a place and a date.

Let's get real here people. Cunningham is a more than deserving challenger. He's beaten multiple top 10 guys, he's improved relatively fast, and he's willing to go anywhere to fight anyone. Bell wouldn't fight him in a fight that could've made Cunningham the undisputed champ. Macca wouldn't fight him in a unification bout. Now Haye is turning him down in bout that could crown a undisputed and super unified champ. How is Cunningham supposed to be a legit champ in some of you people's eyes, when the other champions won't fight him, despite the fact that he's earned a shot?

[Shaolin Box]

These guys need to get this on. Haye has some unfinished business at Cruiserweight.

[BigReg]

And for those calling people idiots who don't consider Haye undisputed, you're also off base. Many people consider undisputed to mean that fighter holds the WBC,WBA, and IBF titles all at once. This is not to say that this is the only standard, but it's one standard that people use. Here's a little history behind the term;

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

here's an excerpt;

"the term Undisputed Champion commonly refers to a boxer that currently holds the (WBC) World Boxing Council ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) world championship, (IBF) International Boxing Federation ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) world championship, and (WBA) World Boxing Association ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) undisputed championship in his weight class"

[MattMattMatt]

I'm seeing a lot of bullshit in this thread. First, I see some are falsly claiming that Bell vacated the IBF belt. That's not true. He was stripped in April of 2006 for not fighting his mandatory challenger. And who was his mando? That's right, Steve Cunningham. So if Bell does the right thing and fights Cunningham, Cunningham might very well have all 3 major titles right now; making him a true undisputed champion. And to those claiming that Bell didn't fight Cunningham because he wanted to rematch Mormeck, that's also not true. Bell beat Mormeck in Jan. 2006, was stripped in April of 2006, and didn't fight Mormeck again until March of 2007. This guy sat around for over a year and fought nobody, yet you guys call the IBF corrupt for stripping him.

I also see people posting that it's convienant that Cunningham calls out Haye now. When was he supposed to call him out? Haye won the belts in November. By that time, Cunningham had a fight setup against Huck. Cunningham beat Huck in late December. By the time Cunningham beat Huck, Haye was signed to fight Maca(despite claiming he was moving up in weight). In early January, Cunningham went on a Philly radio station and said he wanted the winner of Haye/Macca. Later that month(or maybe early Feb), he went on ESPN and restated that he wanted the winner of Haye/Macca. So let's not act as if he's not serious here. Not only is he callng him out, he's proposing a place and a date.

Let's get real here people. Cunningham is a more than deserving challenger. He's beaten multiple top 10 guys, he's improved relatively fast, and he's willing to go anywhere to fight anyone. Bell wouldn't fight him in a fight that could've made Cunningham the undisputed champ. Macca wouldn't fight him in a unification bout. Now Haye is turning him down in bout that could crown a undisputed and super unified champ. How is Cunningham supposed to be a legit champ in some of you people's eyes, when the other champions won't fight him, despite the fact that he's earned a shot?

When Bell was stripped of the title in April 2006, Cunningham didn't really have the kind of record that warrants a title shot. But the main point remains, Haye is moving on to more difficult challenges - what person in their right mind would duck Cunningham to get in the ring with Wlad, Peter or Vitali?!

[sean]

I'm seeing a lot of bullshit in this thread. First, I see some are falsly claiming that Bell vacated the IBF belt. That's not true. He was stripped in April of 2006 for not fighting his mandatory challenger. And who was his mando? That's right, Steve Cunningham. So if Bell does the right thing and fights Cunningham, Cunningham might very well have all 3 major titles right now; making him a true undisputed champion. And to those claiming that Bell didn't fight Cunningham because he wanted to rematch Mormeck, that's also not true. Bell beat Mormeck in Jan. 2006, was stripped in April of 2006, and didn't fight Mormeck again until March of 2007. This guy sat around for over a year and fought nobody, yet you guys call the IBF corrupt for stripping him.

I also see people posting that it's convienant that Cunningham calls out Haye now. When was he supposed to call him out? Haye won the belts in November. By that time, Cunningham had a fight setup against Huck. Cunningham beat Huck in late December. By the time Cunningham beat Huck, Haye was signed to fight Maca(despite claiming he was moving up in weight). In early January, Cunningham went on a Philly radio station and said he wanted the winner of Haye/Macca. Later that month(or maybe early Feb), he went on ESPN and restated that he wanted the winner of Haye/Macca. So let's not act as if he's not serious here. Not only is he callng him out, he's proposing a place and a date.

Let's get real here people. Cunningham is a more than deserving challenger. He's beaten multiple top 10 guys, he's improved relatively fast, and he's willing to go anywhere to fight anyone. Bell wouldn't fight him in a fight that could've made Cunningham the undisputed champ. Macca wouldn't fight him in a unification bout. Now Haye is turning him down in bout that could crown a undisputed and super unified champ. How is Cunningham supposed to be a legit champ in some of you people's eyes, when the other champions won't fight him, despite the fact that he's earned a shot?

i do not dispute your timeline, who said what and when, what happened what and when.

i do not dispute cunningham is a better fighter than my countryman think , having seen him 5 times now.

but haye did say since he has turned pro, he wanted to win a cruiserweight title and then move up to heavy.

he did win the title and did plan to move up to heavy.

only a $2 million offer from frank ****** to fight his fighter temperarily changed his mind as money talks as we all know in boxing.

if cunningham were to offer a no strings attached $2 million offer you would get your wish for a haye v cunningham fight.

[BigReg]

When Bell was stripped of the title in April 2006, Cunningham didn't really have the kind of record that warrants a title shot. But the main point remains, Haye is moving on to more difficult challenges - what person in their right mind would duck Cunningham to get in the ring with Wlad, Peter or Vitali?!

No one is saying Haye is ducking anyone. However, it looks like Wlad is going to fight Thompsion, then Povetkin, and then possibly Peter. Peter has to fight Vitali next, and then will probably go after Wlad. Vitali probably won't even make it out training camp to fight Peter. As a result, Haye is not going to have shot at either one of those guys until late 2009. Chagaev is going to have to fight Valuev. Haye won't have a shot at that belt until late 2008 or early 2009. In the interim, Cunningham is proposing a fight in May.

[Shake]

Haye doesn't need to fight Cunningham. It wouldn't prove anything he hasn't already proven.

[Odo]

Cunningham fought well against the overrated Huck but Haye is on a different level to Huck.Cunningham doesn't have enough power to even bother Haye.
Haye KO6

Cunningham fought a very smart and intelligent fight against Huck who hadnt been overrated at all in the first place.
Lets not forget that Huck had almost schooled(especially in the later rounds) a true top gun before:Vadim Tokarev!
Yep! You are right in saying that Cunningham lacks firepower.I,too,wouldnt bet any money on Cunningham against Haye.Nevertheless it is totally exagerated to claim that Haye is on a different level.Like so many fighters before and after him Haye couldnt take out Ismail Abdoul.Haye is the present king of the castle,but there are a lot of knights who could make the water very hot for him.
I for my part would give someone like Hernandez,Alexeev,or Arslan a good shot against Haye.

[PowerPuncher]

Double post

[PowerPuncher]

No one is saying Haye is ducking anyone. However, it looks like Wlad is going to fight Thompsion, then Povetkin, and then possibly Peter. Peter has to fight Vitali next, and then will probably go after Wlad. Vitali probably won't even make it out training camp to fight Peter. As a result, Haye is not going to have shot at either one of those guys until late 2009. Chagaev is going to have to fight Valuev. Haye won't have a shot at that belt until late 2008 or early 2009. In the interim, Cunningham is proposing a fight in May.

Haye needs to fight a top10 HW contender before getting a title shot. He needs to get used to HW punches. Haye is also killing himself to make Cruser and is naturally a 220lber, he was not going to stay at Cruser but the Big Mac fight brought big money.

A Cunningham fight would be a good defense (it wouldnt be a unification Cunningham is paper belt holder)

BUT if Haye wants to be a HW Champ he needs to fight at HW now. Maybe Cunningham can fight Bell or Mormeck or Big Mac

[MattMattMatt]

Cunningham fought a very smart and intelligent fight against Huck who hadnt been overrated at all in the first place.
Lets not forget that Huck had almost schooled(especially in the later rounds) a true top gun before:Vadim Tokarev!
Yep! You are right in saying that Cunningham lacks firepower.I,too,wouldnt bet any money on Cunningham against Haye.Nevertheless it is totally exagerated to claim that Haye is on a different level.Like so many fighters before and after him Haye couldnt take out Ismail Abdoul.Haye is the present king of the castle,but there are a lot of knights who could make the water very hot for him.
I for my part would give someone like Hernandez,Alexeev,or Arslan a good shot against Haye.
Have you seen the Haye v Abdoul fight? He didn't even try to go for the KO, he was just proving he can go 12 rounds and won every round on every card - though I think it was a pointless thing to do, it didn't prove anything fighting at such a pedestrian rate.

[Haye]

And for those calling people idiots who don't consider Haye undisputed, you're also off base. Many people consider undisputed to mean that fighter holds the WBC,WBA, and IBF titles all at once. This is not to say that this is the only standard, but it's one standard that people use. Here's a little history behind the term;

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

here's an excerpt;

"the term Undisputed Champion commonly refers to a boxer that currently holds the (WBC) World Boxing Council ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) world championship, (IBF) International Boxing Federation ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) world championship, and (WBA) World Boxing Association ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) undisputed championship in his weight class"

That's just complete bullshit. Nobody can dispute that Haye is far and away the 'man' in his division. He has three of the four belts, as well as the ring belt. He beat the man, as well as the top challenger.

By your reckoning, Calzaghe is not the undisputed SMW champ then?

Proper fans realise that the belts are worthless anyway. Haye is the man in his division. and that is the end of it. You saying him or Calzaghe are not 'undisputed' champs is just based on a technicality, its just a pathetic attempt to justify why Steve 'paper champ' Cunningham deserves a shot.

[randeris]

Agreed, belts don't matter. Haye is the CW champ.

[Odo]

Have you seen the Haye v Abdoul fight? He didn't even try to go for the KO, he was just proving he can go 12 rounds and won every round on every card - though I think it was a pointless thing to do, it didn't prove anything fighting at such a pedestrian rate.

No,I didnt watch Haye vs Abdoul!
No shame to go the full distance with that Arab.The who is who of the cruiser weight division has gone the full distance with Abdoul.However,Haye couldnt stop him either for whatever reasons.Haye doesnt play in a different league.
There are some fighters at cruiser who could give him hell.He hasnt cleaned the division as some people tend to think after his very convincing victory against Macca.But lets not forget that Macca for sure wasnt and still isnt the undisputed nr.2 behind Haye.
There are dozens of good fighters at cruiser who have a very good chance to beat Macca.

[Haye]

No,I didnt watch Haye vs Abdoul!
No shame to go the full distance with that Arab.The who is who of the cruiser weight division has gone the full distance with Abdoul.However,Haye couldnt stop him either for whatever reasons.Haye doesnt play in a different league.
There are some fighters at cruiser who could give him hell.He hasnt cleaned the division as some people tend to think after his very convincing victory against Macca.But lets not forget that Macca for sure wasnt and still isnt the undisputed nr.2 behind Haye.
There are dozens of good fighters at cruiser who have a very good chance to beat Macca.

Haye hardly threw a right hand in that fight, he never tried to stop him. It was just for the experience of going the full 12.

[Sly]

I like Steve, but Enzo and Mormeck are better than anything on Cunningham's record. Guillermo Jones ir probably his best win and even then many people consider that a robbery. Wlodarczyk was terrible and Huck wasn't much better.

Cunningham is irrelevent right now and I consider myself a fan. His IBF title is a paper title, plain and simple. He couldn't draw flies to shit and he knows it - hence the trash talk, which isn't like him at all.

[TFFP]

This guy is hilarious :rofl :rofl

Who did Enzo beat, yet Marco Huck is an 'undefeated powerhouse'

He sounds like a dick. The only reason you have that shitty belt is because O'Neil Bell vacated it, before losing to Mormeck, who Haye beat. Haye is THE man in this division, he doesn't need to prove shit

[stakeout]

I understand why Haye fought the English guy, but don't try to downplay me like I am nobody, he knows exactly who I am

:huh Maccarinelli?

[ThePlugInBabies]

That's just complete bullshit. Nobody can dispute that Haye is far and away the 'man' in his division. He has three of the four belts, as well as the ring belt. He beat the man, as well as the top challenger.

By your reckoning, Calzaghe is not the undisputed SMW champ then?

Proper fans realise that the belts are worthless anyway. Haye is the man in his division. and that is the end of it. You saying him or Calzaghe are not 'undisputed' champs is just based on a technicality, its just a pathetic attempt to justify why Steve 'paper champ' Cunningham deserves a shot.

best post.

[marting]

Cunningham fought a very smart and intelligent fight against Huck who hadnt been overrated at all in the first place.
Lets not forget that Huck had almost schooled(especially in the later rounds) a true top gun before:Vadim Tokarev!
Yep! You are right in saying that Cunningham lacks firepower.I,too,wouldnt bet any money on Cunningham against Haye.Nevertheless it is totally exagerated to claim that Haye is on a different level.Like so many fighters before and after him Haye couldnt take out Ismail Abdoul.Haye is the present king of the castle,but there are a lot of knights who could make the water very hot for him.
I for my part would give someone like Hernandez,Alexeev,or Arslan a good shot against Haye.

Good post. While I'm impressed some aspects of Haye's boxing abilities I think he's getting overhyped a bit on this site. I think what may be lost in the post-Haye/Macarinelli analysis is the distinct possibility that Macarinelli may have been a little overhyped himself. The guy I saw fight Saturday looked confused and overwhelmed by his situation. He looked like a deer staring into headlights. He was right there to be tagged at will. I think the biggest question mark with team Macarinelli might be his trainer Enzo Calzaghe.

[Haye]

best post.

Why thank you

[MON]

I love boxrec fans.

'Well Haye didn't KO Abdoul'

Watch the fight and see why!!

[Bodysnatcher]

This debate would not be happening if Cunningham was, say, German.

Haye has been intending to move up to heavyweight for a long, long time. His stated plan was always to beat the `man` in the division (at the time Mormeck, who beat Bell), then move up.

Frank ****** came along with a huge no-strings-attached offer for a domestically demanded match up and he decided to have one last pay day at Cruiser, despite his well-documented struggles with the weight.

Cunningham looked good against Huck.

He should forget Haye, there are plenty of good other fights at Cruiserweight for him.

One thing that might sway me to saying Haye should take the fight would be if Haye received a better or comparable offer to that which he received from Frank ****** to fight Mac.

[Bodysnatcher]

No one is saying Haye is ducking anyone. However, it looks like Wlad is going to fight Thompsion, then Povetkin, and then possibly Peter. Peter has to fight Vitali next, and then will probably go after Wlad. Vitali probably won't even make it out training camp to fight Peter. As a result, Haye is not going to have shot at either one of those guys until late 2009. Chagaev is going to have to fight Valuev. Haye won't have a shot at that belt until late 2008 or early 2009. In the interim, Cunningham is proposing a fight in May.

What would Haye's pay day look like?

Better or worse than against Mac?

[BigReg]

That's just complete bullshit. Nobody can dispute that Haye is far and away the 'man' in his division. He has three of the four belts, as well as the ring belt. He beat the man, as well as the top challenger.

By your reckoning, Calzaghe is not the undisputed SMW champ then?

Proper fans realise that the belts are worthless anyway. Haye is the man in his division. and that is the end of it. You saying him or Calzaghe are not 'undisputed' champs is just based on a technicality, its just a pathetic attempt to justify why Steve 'paper champ' Cunningham deserves a shot.

How is this bullshit? I know many of you guys just started watching the sport in the last few years, but I've been watching the sport since I was a little kid(20 years or so). The traditional standard for the last 20 something years for being an undisputed champ is having the WBC,WBA,and IBF belts. This isn't something I just made up. I even posted another source that goes along with what I said. Once again, being considered "the man" or the recognized champ in a divsion is different from being the undisputed champ. I don't know why some of you thick headed people don't understand this concept. Also, Steve is not a paper champ. He beat the IBF champ to get his belt. He might have all 3 belts had Bell fought him like he was supposed to in 2006.

Some of you guys just don't get it. I've given you timelines, I've given you sources, I've given you logic and reason. You've guys have just responded with red herrings and childesh name calling. None of you guys have presented a good case for why holding all 3 major belts is not a legitimate standard for being undisputed. None of you guys have presented a good case for why Cunningham has not earned his shot. You all call Cunningham a paper champ, but you ignore the fact that Haye just fought a bonified paper champ who was given his second rate WBO title. Cunningham earned his shot at the legit champ in 2006 and he refused to fight Cunningham. What if Mormeck would've refused to fight Haye? What makes Haye so much more worthy than Cunningham? The only thing that separates them is that Bell wouldn't fight his mando, Mormeck did.

The arrogance of some of you people is ridiculous. Cunningham has fought good comp for the past 3 or 4 years, he's willing to anywhere and fight anyone. He's had to work his ass off for everything he's gotten. Nothing was given to him, he wasn't able to take any shortcuts. Is this not what we want from every fighter? What happened to the days of getting behind a boxer who embodies what a true fighter/champion is all about?

[BigReg]

What would Haye's pay day look like?

Better or worse than against Mac?

I'm not a promoter, or a fight manager. As a fan, my concern is seeing good fights.

[2ironmt]

Precisely. The article states that Haye trashed Cunningham before USS's remarks. Haye moved up and wanted to dis the other champ (again Haye is the linear champ, we get it) to quash any discussing that USS is a credible threat that he should deal with before moving up. That said, of course Cunningham wants a payday but I bet he is pissed and does think he can beat Haye.

Haye can move up if he wants and maybe he should but why trash USS on the way out knowing he's not gonna fight him?

[BigReg]

best post.

It was a terrible post. He made little or no convincing points. You only agree because you're a Calzaghe/Haye fan.

[Cobbler]

You all call Cunningham a paper champ, but you ignore the fact that Haye just fought a bonified paper champ who was given his second rate WBO title.

I don't think anybody is ignoring this. It was widely acknowledged before the Maccarinelli fight.

Haye proved all he needed to prove against Mormeck. He acheived his target is becoming number one at Cruiserweight. If Maccarinelli was from Philadelphia there would have been no rationale for the fight. The only reason that the Maccarinelli fight was attractive was because it was a all-British fight and there was a lot of money on the table.

Meanwhile you still refuse to answer the question of how much money Cunningham's camp are offering Haye to make the fight. Give us the figure that might provide an actual reason for the fight to happen. To the nearest million will do.

[Decebal]

BigReg, let's cut to the chase: Haye has proved himself as the man in the division by beating the champ - Mormeck. He then took on the no. 1 rated contender in the division - Maccarinelli, and blew him out of the water in devastating fashion. Haye had said even before the Mormeck fight that win or lose, it would be his last fight at CW. He wanted to move up because he was a natural HW and had trouble making weight - his best form would be at 220+ lbs, not 200. After the Mormeck fight, ****** (Macca's promoter) thought that he'd be having big problems making weight and would come in weak and his boy Enzo would beat him and become the man in the division. So ****** payed Haye £1m ($2m), twice as much as he payed his own boy, Macca, to make the fight. Haye took the fight only because of the money and because he was certain that he could make the weight more easily, because he started training almot straight away after the Mormeck fight - he kept the weight gain to a minimum. He was also certain he would beat Maccarinelli, because Maccarinelly was overrated an didn't have the best chin. So...with all this in mind, he took the fight for the money and small risk, as he saw it. Now, on the basis of that fight, he wants to make a big splash in the USA against HWs...he is moving to heavy for sure now...

...only thing that could change his mind is a quick substantial offer. Has to be quick, because otherwise, he's putting on too much weight and has to be big because otherwise...what's the point? He can make a lot of money at HW anyway - and he feels he's better at that weight anyway.

So...if Cunningham puts an offer of $2,000,000 on the table within the next 2 weeks or so...Haye might consider it. If not, let's forget the whole business!:good

[Cobbler]

No,I didnt watch Haye vs Abdoul!
No shame to go the full distance with that Arab.The who is who of the cruiser weight division has gone the full distance with Abdoul.However,Haye couldnt stop him either for whatever reasons.Haye doesnt play in a different league.


The reason is that he was actively trying not to.

I have never seen a fight where one boxer was obviously going to so much effort to not knock out his opponent.

Citing that fight is not bolstering your credibility.

[Bodysnatcher]

How is this bullshit? I know many of you guys just started watching the sport in the last few years, but I've been watching the sport since I was a little kid(20 years or so). The traditional standard for the last 20 something years for being an undisputed champ is having the WBC,WBA,and IBF belts. This isn't something I just made up. I even posted another source that goes along with what I said. Once again, being considered "the man" or the recognized champ in a divsion is different from being the undisputed champ. I don't know why some of you thick headed people don't understand this concept. Also, Steve is not a paper champ. He beat the IBF champ to get his belt. He might have all 3 belts had Bell fought him like he was supposed to in 2006.

Some of you guys just don't get it. I've given you timelines, I've given you sources, I've given you logic and reason. You've guys have just responded with red herrings and childesh name calling. None of you guys have presented a good case for why holding all 3 major belts is not a legitimate standard for being undisputed. None of you guys have presented a good case for why Cunningham has not earned his shot. You all call Cunningham a paper champ, but you ignore the fact that Haye just fought a bonified paper champ who was given his second rate WBO title. Cunningham earned his shot at the legit champ in 2006 and he refused to fight Cunningham. What if Mormeck would've refues to fight Haye? What makes Haye so much more worthy than Cunningham? The only thing that separates them is that Bell wouldn't fight his mando, Mormeck did.

The arrogance of some of you people is ridiculous. Cunningham has fought good comp for the past 3 or 4 years, he's willing to anywhere and fight anyone. He's had to work his ass off for everything he's gotten. Nothing was given to him, he wasn't able to take any shortcuts. Is this not what we want from every fighter? What happened to the days of getting behind a boxer who embodies what a true fighter/champion is all about?

Fair post.

Haye isn't like Holyfield moving up with all the belts in 89.

If Haye receives an offer on the same level as he received from Frank ****** against Mac, some criticism of Haye might be considered fair.

If Cunningham's camp can't bring an offer on the same level, however, I wouldn't blame Haye for ignoring Cunningham and going for his chance at heavyweight.

I suppose some people would still criticise Haye for turning down a smaller offer.

[MattMattMatt]

No one is saying Haye is ducking anyone. However, it looks like Wlad is going to fight Thompsion, then Povetkin, and then possibly Peter. Peter has to fight Vitali next, and then will probably go after Wlad. Vitali probably won't even make it out training camp to fight Peter. As a result, Haye is not going to have shot at either one of those guys until late 2009. Chagaev is going to have to fight Valuev. Haye won't have a shot at that belt until late 2008 or early 2009. In the interim, Cunningham is proposing a fight in May.

I thought Cunningham said Haye is ducking him!;) But yes, I see your point about the heavyweight titles being tied up for a fair while - but it's sensible for Haye to have a few build up fights at the higher division, he probably wouldn't get a title shot in his first couple of fights anyway! I think it's clear that Haye just isn't that interested in fighting at Cruiser anymore, he's being talking of moving up and having problems making the weight for a long time now and he only fought Macca because it was a very interesting domestic match up where legitimate calls of ducking may have haunted him.

Cunningham may very well have given Haye problems but I don't think there is enough call for the fight, I would guess that the majority of fans want to see Haye go to heavyweight, I know I do, and it is clear that Haye is a decent bloke in that respect - he genuinly seems to want to make good fights that people want to see.

[BigReg]

BigReg, let's cut to the chase: Haye has proved himself as the man in the division by beating the champ - Mormeck. He then took on the no. 1 rated contender in the division - Maccarinelli, and blew him out of the water in devastating fashion. Haye had said even before the Mormeck fight that win or lose, it would be his last fight at CW. He wanted to move up because he was a natural HW and had trouble making weight - his best form would be at 220+ lbs, not 200. After the Mormeck fight, ****** (Macca's promoter) thought that he'd be having big problems making weight and would come in weak and his boy Enzo would beat him and become the man in the division. So ****** payed Haye £1m ($2m), twice as much as he payed his own boy, Macca, to make the fight. Haye took the fight only because of the money and because he was certain that he could make the weight more easily, because he started training almot straight away after the Mormeck fight - he kept the weight gain to a minimum. He was also certain he would beat Maccarinelli, because Maccarinelly was overrated an didn't have the best chin. So...with all this in mind, he took the fight for the money and small risk, as he saw it. Now, on the basis of that fight, he wants to make a big splash in the USA against HWs...he is moving to heavy for sure now...

...only thing that could change his mind is a quick substantial offer. Has to be quick, because otherwise, he's putting on too much weight and has to be big because otherwise...what's the point? He can make a lot of money at HW anyway - and he feels he's better at that weight anyway.

So...if Cunningham puts an offer of $2,000,000 on the table within the next 2 weeks or so...Haye might consider it. If not, let's forget the whole business!:good

Incorrect, Cunningham was(and still is) the the no.1 contender at the time. As for the rest of your post, if you're telling me that Haye is a cherry picker who is primarily motivated by money, then that's fine. Most fighters have that attitude anyway.

[BigReg]

I don't think anybody is ignoring this. It was widely acknowledged before the Maccarinelli fight.

Haye proved all he needed to prove against Mormeck. He acheived his target is becoming number one at Cruiserweight. If Maccarinelli was from Philadelphia there would have been no rationale for the fight. The only reason that the Maccarinelli fight was attractive was because it was a all-British fight and there was a lot of money on the table.

Meanwhile you still refuse to answer the question of how much money Cunningham's camp are offering Haye to make the fight. Give us the figure that might provide an actual reason for the fight to happen. To the nearest million will do.

This may suprise you, but I am not a member of Cunninham's camp. I can't give you details on offers being as I'm not Cunningham's promoter, manager, or even a member of his camp. Right now, Haye isn't even willing to discuss a fight with Cunningham so I doubt team Cunningham would make him an offer at this point.

[Decebal]

Incorrect, Cunningham was(and still is) the the no.1 contender at the time. As for the rest of your post, if you're telling me that Haye is a cherry picker who is primarily motivated by money, then that's fine. Most fighters have that attitude anyway.

No.1 according to whom? The Ring? i.e. the magazine that overrates American fighters?

No...Haye is no cherry picker - he fought the very best on offer! Why didn't Cunningham fight Mormeck for the title? Because he was messing around with guys like Huck!

If Haye fought Cunningham, he would only fight him for the money - now that would be cherrypicking; he has nothing left to prove!

Forget it, mate!

[Cobbler]

This may suprise you, but I am not a member of Cunninham's camp. I can't give you details on offers being as I'm not Cunningham's promoter, manager, or even a member of his camp. Right now, Haye isn't even willing to discuss a fight with Cunningham so I doubt team Cunningham would make him an offer at this point.

Why would Haye discuss a fight with Cunningham? Cunningham has nothing that Haye wants or needs. There are thousands of boxers all over the world that David Haye is currently not discussing fights with.

And if there's no offer then there's really nothing to discuss. As I said before, Cunningham isn't serious about actually trying to make the fight.

Maccarinelli was serious about wanting to fight Haye (well, at least until the weigh-in...) and his promoter made Haye an offer that was too good to refuse.

Cunningham just wants to whore for publicity on Haye's coattails. It's slightly tawdry, but nothing we haven't seen before.

[ThePlugInBabies]

It was a terrible post. He made little or no convincing points. You only agree because you're a Calzaghe/Haye fan.

you're only all over this story like a cheap suit because cunningham is from philly.

true story. :rasta

[pirlo]

Cunningham is a very good boxer, I think anybody fighting him would have big problems. He is very slick, has good handspeed, nice footwork and hell of a chin but Haye is too much of everything for him.

[BigReg]

you're only all over this story like a cheap suit because cunningham is from philly.

true story. :rasta

That may be the case. Regardless, I'm making valid, logical points; points that many of you aren't even bothering to counter.

[ThePlugInBabies]

That may be the case. Regardless, I'm making valid, logical points. Points that many of you aren't even bothering to counter.

do you acknowledge that cunningham missed the boat with this one?

look, haye has made his HW ambitions clear for a long time. he wanted to take the CW crown then piss off up to the next division. now he took the enzo fight because it was a witter-hatton situation, a domestic fight that had been brewing for a long time and there was big £££££££££ behind it. cunningham brings nothing to the table worth haye bothering with another fight at CW, that's the cold hard truth.

don't get me wrong, USS is a good fighter and i totally agree that he is the second best in the division right now and given the chance, the most likely to clear up once haye moves on. but sadly for him his promoters will not back him with the sort of cash that will catch haye's eye. he's arrived way too late for this one.

(i personally would quite like to see this fight but can understand why haye is not interested)

[Haye]

Also, Steve is not a paper champ.

. None of you guys have presented a good case for why holding all 3 major belts is not a legitimate standard for being undisputed. ?

Steve is a paper champ. He fought, and lost, for a title that was stripped from the 'man' at the time, O'Neil Bell. He subsequently rematched the IBF 'champ' and won it.

And I did present a case for saying that 3 major belts is not necessarily a legitimate standard for being undisputed.

The belts should not really have much of a say anymore, as soon as the IBF gets unified they strip their champ and have some bums fight for it. And what does one belt mean anyway? Haye beat the man and has three belts, as well as the ring belt, proper fans realise he is the 'man' and thats all there is to it.

'Undisputed' is not even a technical definition in boxing, and Haye is undisputably the top dog at Cruiserweight, even you have to agree with this. Therefore just because of some technicality regarding a non technical title, that does not mean he is not undisputed.

[jc]

Cunningham is good but not worth staying around for...

[Haye]

And its easy to discredit Maccarinelli now, but stylistically he posed a massive threat to Haye, he is a huge puncher and has good stamina that could potentially drag Haye into the late rounds to be KOed.

Macca had beaten Braithwaite, which is a better win than Cunningham's best in Huck, IMO. Cunningham does not have the style to beat Haye, his stamina is pretty poor and he does not have the power to keep Haye off him.

[BigReg]

Steve is a paper champ. He fought, and lost, for a title that was stripped from the 'man' at the time, O'Neil Bell. He subsequently rematched the IBF 'champ' and won it.

And I did present a case for saying that 3 major belts is not necessarily a legitimate standard for being undisputed.

The belts should not really have much of a say anymore, as soon as the IBF gets unified they strip their champ and have some bums fight for it. And what does one belt mean anyway? Haye beat the man and has three belts, as well as the ring belt, proper fans realise he is the 'man' and thats all there is to it.

'Undisputed' is not even a technical definition in boxing, and Haye is undisputably the top dog at Cruiserweight, even you have to agree with this. Therefore just because of some technicality regarding a non technical title, that does not mean he is not undisputed.

How many times do I have to repeat myself? Bell was rightfully stripped for not fighting Cunningham. There was a 15 month gap between his two fights with Mormeck. He fought no one in between this time. Do you think the IBF was wrong for stripping him?

So now Cunningham has a major title, and might have all 3 had Bell fought him like he was supposed to. So now you have a guy who has a major title. This same guy was supposed to have a shot at all 3 major belts before Haye. Despite these facts, you want to claim that Haye has cleaned out the divsion and is the undistputed champ. Is Haye the top fighter in the division? Yes. However, another fighter earned the right to fight for this distinction and was denied this opportunity by an unwiling champion. Sorry, but Haye is not the undisputed champion at CW. He's the top fighter, he's also the ring/WBC/WBA/WBO champ. However, without the IBF strap(especially considering that the IBF champ was cheated out his opportunity to fight for the undisputed title) Haye is not the undisputed champ.

[Haye]

How many times do I have to repeat myself? Bell was rightfully stripped for not fighting Cunningham. There was a 15 month gap between his two fights with Mormeck. He fought no one in between this time. Do you think the IBF was wrong for stripping him?

So now Cunningham has a major title, and might have all 3 had Bell fought him like he was supposed to. So now you have a guy who has a major title. This same guy was supposed to have a shot at all 3 major belts before Haye. Despite these facts, you want to claim that Haye has cleaned out the divsion and is the undistputed champ. Is Haye the top fighter in the division? Yes. However, another fighter earned the right to fight for this distinction and was denied this opportunity by an unwiling champion. Sorry, but Haye is not the undisputed champion at CW. He's the top fighter, he's also the ring/WBC/WBA/WBO champ. However, without the IBF strap(especially considering that the IBF champ was cheated out his opportunity to fight for the undisputed title) Haye is not the undisputed champ.

Ok, so hypothetically, If Bell had not been stripped and Haye beat Mormeck for all three belts, then beat Macca for WBO, would you still consider USS a top challenger who Haye has to fight?

[DamonD]

There's always one more fight.

[BigReg]

And its easy to discredit Maccarinelli now, but stylistically he posed a massive threat to Haye, he is a huge puncher and has good stamina that could potentially drag Haye into the late rounds to be KOed.

Macca had beaten Braithwaite, which is a better win than Cunningham's best in Huck, IMO. Cunningham does not have the style to beat Haye, his stamina is pretty poor and he does not have the power to keep Haye off him.

Two fights before the Macca fight, Braithwaite was knocked out by Jones. Jones was decisioned by Cunningham. So I guess the Jones win is a better win than the Braithwaite win. Also Cunningham does not have stamina issues. He's gone the distance plenty of times. He scored a 12th round stoppage in his last fight.

[BigReg]

Ok, so hypothetically, If Bell had not been stripped and Haye beat Mormeck for all three belts, then beat Macca for WBO, would you still consider USS a top challenger who Haye has to fight?

Bell would not have been stripped only if he fought Cunningham. Had he fought and beat Cunningham, then lost to Mormeck, then Mormeck lost to Haye; then Haye would have no reason to fight Cunningham. He would be the undisputed champ. However, that didn't happen.

[BigReg]

There's always one more fight.

There's only one other beltholder, and he has a major belt. So that "there's always one more fight" shit isn't going to fly in this situation.

[MON]

BigReg, what does Cunningham offer Haye?

Money? No.
Prestige? No.
The chance to become undisputed champion? No. He's already seen as that despite your protests.

There's no reason for Haye to hang around at cruiserweight, he needs to crack on with conquering the heavyweights.

[jc]

BigReg, what does Cunningham offer Haye?

Money? No.
Prestige? No.
The chance to become undisputed champion? No. He's already seen as that despite your protests.

There's no reason for Haye to hang around at cruiserweight, he needs to crack on with conquering the heavyweights.

Excactly!

[jc]

There's only one other beltholder, and he has a major belt. So that "there's always one more fight" shit isn't going to fly in this situation.

Hayes undisputed, linear title, makes Steves paper belt irrelevent...:blood

[BigReg]

BigReg, what does Cunningham offer Haye?

Money? No.
Prestige? No.
The chance to become undisputed champion? No. He's already seen as that despite your protests.

There's no reason for Haye to hang around at cruiserweight, he needs to crack on with conquering the heavyweights.

I've given numerous reasons, and even posted a backup source as to why Haye is not undisputed. No one has been able to succesfully counter my argument.

[PolishPummler]

Haye kills Cunningham right now.

Steve needs to focus on the winner of Adamek vs Bell.

[MON]

I've given numerous reasons, and even posted a backup source as to why Haye is not undisputed. No one has been able to succesfully counter my argument.

Nobody cares.

Haye is the undisputed champion, nobody apart from you disagrees with it.

He is seen as the undisputed champion by 99% of people, why would he hang around at cruiserweight to KO some bum for the IBF just to appease a handful of people?

He's proven himself as the man at cruiserweight, now he can move on to pastures new.

[maciek4]

Huck and Wladarczyk and Macca are probably all on the same plane with different strengths, the difference is that Cunningham had trouble with both, dropped a loss to one and Haye's coming off a KO of Mormeck(superior to Huck and Wlodarcyzk by a bit) and a destruction of Macca.

Haye vs. Cunningham is a mismatch, because Cunningham is just slightly superior to Wlodarcyzk and Huck, but a guy like Cunningham will inevitably be given more credit for decent wins on this side of the pond more so than Euro's getting great wins.

What's a better win? A close win over a B level guy, or a blowout over a B level guy, or a grinding down tactical effort vs. a B- guy where you dropped a few rounds? Or a KO over a B+ guy who has a stylistic advantage on you(Mormeck)?

Haye is an explosive, exciting fighter who knocks people out and Cunningham is more of a defensive tactician, so of course Haye will be looking better beating those B B- guys.

IMO Huck is a bit better than Maccarinelli.

[BigReg]

Nobody cares.

Haye is the undisputed champion, nobody apart from you disagrees with it.

He is seen as the undisputed champion by 99% of people, why would he hang around at cruiserweight to KO some bum for the IBF just to appease a handful of people?

He's proven himself as the man at cruiserweight, now he can move on to pastures new.

"There seems to be an unwritten rule that even if a champion holds just the WBC, WBA and IBF titles, he is considered the undisputed champ"

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

"In professional boxing ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), the term Undisputed Champion commonly refers to a boxer that currently holds the (WBC) World Boxing Council ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) world championship, (IBF) International Boxing Federation ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) world championship, and (WBA) World Boxing Association ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) undisputed championship in his weight class."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There is an ongoing dispute as to what makes an undisputed champ. Holding the WBA/WBC/IBF belts at the same time is a standard that is commonly used.

[Haye]

"There seems to be an unwritten rule that even if a champion holds just the WBC, WBA and IBF titles, he is considered the undisputed champ"

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

"In professional boxing ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), the term Undisputed Champion commonly refers to a boxer that currently holds the (WBC) World Boxing Council ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) world championship, (IBF) International Boxing Federation ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) world championship, and (WBA) World Boxing Association ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) undisputed championship in his weight class."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

There is an ongoing dispute as to what makes an undisputed champ. Holding the WBA/WBC/IBF belts at the same time is a standard that is commonly used.

Yeah you can tell it works so well. Calzaghe is a bitch for not fighting Bute, he is not undisputed, and has unfinished business at SMW. Same with Pavlik, that guy needs to prove himself against Sturm and Abraham before being recognised as the best in his division.

[MON]

BigReg, use some common sense will you.

Haye won all the belts Mormeck held, he would have held the IBF if Mormeck hadn't had to relinquish it.

He also has the WBO and probably most of all he's The Ring magazine champion.

He's undisputed, get over it.

[Sly]

Fuck it. David Haye is IBF champion anyway. Bell was stripped of that belt just before he lost the rematch with Mormeck. In theory, after beating Mormeck and Maccarinelli, Haye has the lot. The IBF title is rendered meaningless in this instance.

WBC/WBA/IBF/WBO and Ring Magazine champion...David 'The Hayemaker' Haye!

[Haye]

Given that 'undisputed' is an unofficial title anyway, what does it actually mean? There are always worthy contenders in a division no matter how dominant the champ. To my mind, undisputed just refers to the 'man' in the division who has made it very clear he is top dog by unifying, and has at least a couple of belts won from good fighters in his division. I consider Pavlik, Haye, Calzaghe and Campbell undisputed at the moment. No one else.

There is more to being undisputed than simply having 3 belts. What if Kessler had fought Stieglitz for Calzaghe's IBF belt when he got stripped. He would have WBC, WBA and IBF, but would that make him undisputed with Calzaghe still in the division?

Its about beating the man with the belts, or becoming the man by unifying some of them against the best titleholders in the division.

[Banjostring]

Haye's flawed, but exciting. It makes no sense to hang around and fight cunningham when he can go into the heavyweight division and instantly become the most interesting character in there.

I don't think he'd get close enough to Klitshcko to have a prayer if they fought, but he will sell a lot of merchandise and make a lot of money before he has to face that scenario. Moving up to HW is the best decision he could've made.

Cunningham needs Haye a lot more than Haye needs Cunningham. Cunningham'll clean up at CW for the next while, but he'd have made a lot more money doing it had he raised his profile with a fight against Haye.

Mac V Cunningham would be interesting.

[BigReg]

BigReg, use some common sense will you.

Haye won all the belts Mormeck held, he would have held the IBF if Mormeck hadn't had to relinquish it.

He also has the WBO and probably most of all he's The Ring magazine champion.

He's undisputed, get over it.

Please don't tell me to use common sense when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Mormeck never relinquished the IBF belt. After Bell beat Mormeck in Jan. 2006, he was stripped for not fighting his mando in April 2006. And guess who his mando was? That's right, Cunningham. After getting stripped in April, Bell fought nobody until Mormeck in March of 2007. So that's 15 months in between fights and 11 months of inactivity after he was stripped. So it wasn't like he refused to fight Cunningham in order to fight Mormeck. Basically, had Bell fought Cunningham like he was supposed to, Cunningham might be the undisputed champ right now.

[Haye]

BIGREG, what are your thoughts on my previous post regarding undisputed status?

[Buddy La]

Please don't tell me to use common sense when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Mormeck never relinquished the IBF belt. After Bell beat Mormeck in Jan. 2006, he was stripped for not fighting his mando in April 2006. And guess who his mando was? That's right, Cunningham. After getting stripped in April, Bell fought nobody until Mormeck in March of 2007. So that's 15 months in between fights and 11 months of inactivity after he was stripped. So it wasn't like he refused to fight Cunningham in order to fight Mormeck. Basically, had Bell fought Cunningham like he was supposed to, Cunningham might be the undisputed champ right now.

Pretty much. Mormeck was not even in the picture really after getting KO'd by Bell. There wasn't any word of a rematch, at least not in the near future at the time. Bell screwed things up by going a bit psycho (from what I've heard), and the Bell/Mormeck II fight was pretty much signed because of Bell's inactivity for the time being. After that close fight, Mormeck could've possibly given Bell another shot...and at this time the word was that Haye was "nobody" compared to Cunningham.

[Cobbler]

As I said a couple of days ago, BigReg, you're just arguing semantics now.

You say that Haye is the 'number one' at Cruiserweight but not 'undisputed'. But if Haye and Cunningham had both fought exactly the same opposition with exactly the same results, but the IBF had chosen not to strip Bell, then Haye would be undisputed.

You give the decisions of governing bodies more credence than what happens in the ring.

Haye's goal was to become the number one at cruiserweight, then move up to heavyweight. Most people would consider him undisputed. You choose a different definition of the word that places the emphasis on trinkets rather than achievements. But, even if we go with your definition, Haye has no interest in being undisputed in the way you define it. He wanted to be number one, he's not sticking around for another trinket.

[Smith]

Bigreg, you live in the past mate. Times have changed, the IBF is no longer a 'better' belt than the WBO, despite what you post from wiki-fucking-pedia. True boxing fans know the score, and know Haye is the man, full stop. You are failing to understand Steve poses no positives to David, nothing. He is already recognised as the unifeid champ, except by you and cunningham himself. You are painting Cunningham as a great guy here, you do realise he is mainly saying these things because he knows Haye won't stay at 200. And you take the bate because he is a Philly boy. We understand the IBF is still a belt, but come on, you are fooling yourself. Hand on heart do you believe Steve wants to fight Haye? I don't.

Do you work for the IBF?

[Buddy La]

That's subjective to say the IBF is no longer recognized as a championship belt. In terms of undisputed, or without question/dispute, it would also become subjective as some people feel the IBF has no validity as a major championship belt (which to my belief is WBC,IBF,WBA,WBO). To then say Haye is undisputed, he'd have to be without question the Cruiserweight champion. As BigReg and myself believe the IBF is a major championship belt and therefore Cunningham is a Cruiserweight champion. So therefore it is disputed that Haye is the only champion. BUT, this is still subjective and we can go on for another 40 pages on our ideas of what belts are important and what ones aren't.

[Smith]

I never said it is no longer recognised as a championship belt, fuck me you guys read what the fuck you want don't you.

[Jimbo]

After that close fight, Mormeck could've possibly given Bell another shot...and at this time the word was that Haye was "nobody" compared to Cunningham.

"Nobody"? You mean the WBC #1 contender?

Here are the WBC rankings archives [Only registered and activated users can see links]

They show that Haye became WBC #1 immediately after the Bell Mormeck rematch in March 07 and that he was WBC #2 behind Bell and Mormeck as far back as July 2006.

[BigReg]

BIGREG, what are your thoughts on my previous post regarding undisputed status?

The Kessler/Calzaghe situation is a tricky one. Calzaghe gave up the IBF belt so that he could fight Manfredo on HBO. He did this to setup a fight with Kessler. Therefore, Kessler would have never gone after that IBF belt. However, if Kessler did have the WBA/WBC/IBF belts and Joe had the WBO belt, then Kessler would've been the undisputed champ under the traditional definition. However, being undisputed wouldn't do him much good seeing as how everyone would dispute his status. This situation is much different though. If Haye had vacated the IBF belt and Cunningham later won it, then this wouldn't be much of an issue. However, Bell was stripped of the belt for not fighting Cunningham. He then lost to Mormeck, who then lost to Haye. You see the difference?

[BigReg]

Bigreg, you live in the past mate. Times have changed, the IBF is no longer a 'better' belt than the WBO, despite what you post from wiki-fucking-pedia. True boxing fans know the score, and know Haye is the man, full stop. You are failing to understand Steve poses no positives to David, nothing. He is already recognised as the unifeid champ, except by you and cunningham himself. You are painting Cunningham as a great guy here, you do realise he is mainly saying these things because he knows Haye won't stay at 200. And you take the bate because he is a Philly boy. We understand the IBF is still a belt, but come on, you are fooling yourself. Hand on heart do you believe Steve wants to fight Haye? I don't.

Do you work for the IBF?

Why do I have to keep repeating myself? Cunningham said he wanted the winner of Haye/Macca back in January. When else was he supposed to call out Haye? Remember, Haye won the belts in Nov. Cunningham was already signed to fight Huck when Haye was fighting Mormeck. Cunningham didn't beat Huck until the end of December. Cunningham served in the Navy, I doubt he's afraid to fight Haye.

[Bomber]

The Point is though chaps, people are calling Haye out not because they want or think they can beat him, instead they just need or want a payday.

[BigReg]

The Point is though chaps, people are calling Haye out not because they want or think they can beat him, instead they just need or want a payday.

No, Haye fought Macca because of the payday. Haye is going to HW for the payday. Cunninghm wants to fight Haye because he wants to prove he's the best CW in the world.:good

[Buddy La]

The Point is though chaps, people are calling Haye out not because they want or think they can beat him, instead they just need or want a payday.

Oh there's no doubt about that.

[Smith]

No, Haye fought Macca because of the payday. Haye is going to HW for the payday. Cunninghm wants to fight Haye because he wants to prove he's the best CW in the world.:goodThis is where I finish readin your posts. Adios

[Cobbler]

Haye is going to HW for the payday.

You don't for a second believe that.

[Buddy La]

"Nobody"? You mean the WBC #1 contender?

Here are the WBC rankings archives [Only registered and activated users can see links]

They show that Haye became WBC #1 immediately after the Bell Mormeck rematch in March 07 and that he was WBC #2 behind Bell and Mormeck as far back as July 2006.

Thanks for the link. I'm not speaking in those terms of recognition, but on the level of public recognition. Haye called Cunningham a nobody, yet more than being a #1 contender, he is IBF Champion.

[196osh]

No, Haye fought Macca because of the payday. Haye is going to HW for the payday. Cunninghm wants to fight Haye because he wants to prove he's the best CW in the world.:good


You nuthug USS far more than you do even Floyd or Hopkins. Well done Reg, ;).

[Smith]

The only problem with what Haye said, is that about Steve.

He is not a nobody, he is the second best cruiser out there at the moment. But he beats him.

Its irrelative anyway, Davids leaving, and my boy Hernandez will soon dominate the cruisers

[Shaolin Box]

damn i cant beleive this thread is still going...

[196osh]

damn i cant beleive this thread is still going...

BigReg really loves Steve Cunningham. :lol:

[Bomber]

Steve Cunningham isnt known by his own Grannie let alone mainstream boxing fans. I suppose its just coincidence that when Haye earns a load of cash and became the most talked about fighter in the upper weight class'es that Cunningham wants him.

[BigReg]

You don't for a second believe that.

I don't believe the part about him going to HW for the payday. However, many Haye pole jockers are claiming that Cunningham is a waste of time and that there are bigger paydays at HW. There are also some idiots who claim Cunningham is only calling out Haye for the money. Not suprisingly, no one jumped on them. However, I get instantly attacked for suggesting the same about Haye.

[Buddy La]

That's pretty much the only reason why I've got involved in this Haye - Cunningham dispute is because I'm a fan of Cunningham. He's 2nd best at cruiserweight, but still a champion. Whether Haye beats Steve or not is irrelevant as well because David's moving up to heavyweight....but I have to leave now, so I'll be done replying to posts.
-see ya later

[BigReg]

You nuthug USS far more than you do even Floyd or Hopkins. Well done Reg, ;).

Find me one example where I was nuthigging Cunningham. Find one. Simply saying someone is worthy to fight Haye and is a legitimate threat is not nuthugging.

[Jimbo]

I agree it's a pointless thread.

I like Cunningham, I did a round by round for the Huck fight and thought he did a great job of breaking down Huck with clean, accurate punching. I don't think Huck is as good as Maccarenelli but neither do I believe that Maccarenelli is as good as Cunningham.

In any case Haye is going to heavyweight, he stated his goal to be heavyweight champ a long time ago, he only stayed around for Enzo because as well as getting him another belt it was a big payday, a big domestic fight and gave him a great exposure worldwide.

If I remember correctly Cunningham's fight against Huck didn't even get shown in the US so there's no exposure and any cash generated is generated by Haye. I don't see why anyone could have a problem with Haye moving to heavyweight instead of taking the fight.

And as far as "undisputed" goes, does anyone really dispute that Haye is the champion of the 200lb division?

[196osh]

Find me one example where I was nuthigging Cunningham. Find one. Simply saying someone is worthy to fight Haye and is a legitimate threat is not nuthugging.

:rofl

Haye only fought Macca for the money, Cunningham wants to fight Haye so he can be the best CW in the world.

Means that:

A. You are either a nuthugger, beliving that Cunningham is a self rightous; wanting to fight Haye for the glory not a payday, the fact that he would make several times what he could make fighting anybody else not come into it?

B. You are ignorent as fuck and you have no idea about what a fight between two british fighters at that level means.

Get it?

[BigReg]

:rofl

Haye only fought Macca for the money, Cunningham wants to fight Haye so he can be the best CW in the world.

Means that:

A. You are either a nuthugger, beliving that Cunningham is a self rightous; wanting to fight Haye for the glory not a payday, the fact that he would make several times what he could make fighting anybody else not come into it?

B. You are ignorent as fuck and you have no idea about what a fight between two british fighters at that level means.

Get it?

I don't even believe this. This is the rhetoric that I've been hearing from Haye fans for why he fought Macca. They all dismiss Cunningham. When I ask what makes Macca so much more credible(Cunningham is ranked higher than him), they all mention the payday.

Why is it that every fight Haye makes is for the glory, yet when Cunningham calls him out, it's only for the money? Cotto would easily get his biggest payday against Floyd. Does that mena if he called him out it would only be for the money?

[DamonD]

I notice Herbie Hide is calling out Haye as well, along with Nelson yesterday.

Boy, guess Haye better delay those plans to go HW for another 2 years, eh?

[BigReg]

I notice Herbie Hide is calling out Haye as well, along with Nelson yesterday.

Boy, guess Haye better delay those plans to go HW for another 2 years, eh?

Do any of them have a major belt? Are any of them the number 1 contender? What big fights does Haye have lined up at HW?

[Bomber]

I notice Herbie Hide is calling out Haye as well, along with Nelson yesterday.

Boy, guess Haye better delay those plans to go HW for another 2 years, eh?

Exactly, I heard Tommy Hearns wants to fight him outside a Little Chef diner on the M6!!!!

Unless there is a undisputed legit challanger for Haye at CW, why bother hanging around. With that logic he could be fighting at CW till 2018.

[Shaolin Box]

Do any of them have a major belt? Are any of them the number 1 contender? What big fights does Haye have lined up at HW?

He seems to think he will get a shot at Wlad

[196osh]

I don't even believe this. This is the rhetoric that I've been hearing from Haye fans for why he fought Macca. They all dismiss Cunningham. When I ask what makes Macca so much more credible(Cunningham is ranked higher than him), they all mention the payday.

Why is it that every fight Haye makes is for the glory, yet when Cunningham calls him out, it's only for the money? Cotto would easily get his biggest payday against Floyd. Does that mena if he called him out it would only be for the money?

I am done talking to you on this subject.

Haye vs Cunningam would be a good fight.

Haye vs Cunningham will never happen because Haye wants to as he puts it: knock that bum Klitschko out. Now wither or not that happens the start of training for that far far outweighs what it would mean to beat Steve.

It wont happen and if it does there shall be a long ass avatar bet made with you on the outcome ;)

[TFFP]

Who cares, there is always a fucking #1 contender

Haye will have plenty of big fights lined up at HW, far riskier than Steve Cunningham who virtually nobody cares about but yourself

If Haye was staying at cruiser Cunningham would deserve his shot, but he's not. He's moving onto bigger and better things, and your strange definition of what consitutes undisputed based on the credence given to the decision of a governing body takes nothing away from him

It's hard luck for Cunningham, but he'll simply have to clean up the division himself

[Taylex]

Cunningham = Jeff Lacy 2. Overrated and Over-hyped. If he really wants to fight Haye he can follow him up to Heavyweight and get his beating there.

[jc]

Cunningham = Jeff Lacy 2. Overrated and Over-hyped. If he really wants to fight Haye he can follow him up to Heavyweight and get his beating there.

Apart from the IBF connection I cant see too much of a comparison. people were interested in Calzaghe - Lacy, nobodiy is too bothered about Haye - Cunningham...except maybe one philly local...:lol:

[Haye]

Cunningham = Jeff Lacy 2. Overrated and Over-hyped. If he really wants to fight Haye he can follow him up to Heavyweight and get his beating there.

I dont agree with that because Cunningham is a nobody. Nobody except BIGREG is hyping him. But he is a good, highly skilled fighter.

[emanuel_augustus]

I dont agree with that because Cunningham is a nobody. Nobody except BIGREG is hyping him. But he is a good, highly skilled fighter.

And the way you become a somebody is by beating the best champions out there. You can't fault Cunningham for calling out Haye, although the fight won't happen.

Steve is a great fighter, who if he keeps at it will get his due, ala' Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins absolutely does not have a crowd pleasing style, but kept at it for years and got his payoff. Hopefully Steve can do the same.

Cunningham is currently the most skilled of the Cruiserweights and he's a perplexing puzzle for any of them, Haye included.

[Haye]

And the way you become a somebody is by beating the best champions out there. You can't fault Cunningham for calling out Haye, although the fight won't happen.

Steve is a great fighter, who if he keeps at it will get his due, ala' Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins absolutely does not have a crowd pleasing style, but kept at it for years and got his payoff. Hopefully Steve can do the same.

Cunningham is currently the most skilled of the Cruiserweights and he's a perplexing puzzle for any of them, Haye included.

Yeah that is true, I'm not bashing Cunningham, just stating the facts that he is an unknown. But this fight just is not gonna happen. Haye struggles to make weight and is moving up for an assault on the HW division. Cunningham may be a good fighter, but he is just not on Haye's mind right now.

If Haye were staying at cruiser for a year, then fair play. But he is moving up for a crack at the HW's and you simply cannot fault him for that.

[BigReg]

I am done talking to you on this subject.

Haye vs Cunningam would be a good fight.

Haye vs Cunningham will never happen because Haye wants to as he puts it: knock that bum Klitschko out. Now wither or not that happens the start of training for that far far outweighs what it would mean to beat Steve.

It wont happen and if it does there shall be a long ass avatar bet made with you on the outcome ;)

Using Haye fan logic, who has Haye beat to deserve a shot at Wlad? Accroding to you guys, he needs to spend years beating top 10 contenders and then maybe he'll derserve a shot. Of course, this assumes he's a big enough draw to warrant a shot even he's the number 1 contender.

[196osh]

Using Haye fan logic, who has Haye beat to deserve a shot at Wlad? Accroding to you guys, he needs to spend years beating top 10 contenders and then maybe he'll derserve a shot. Of course, this assumes he's a big enough draw to warrant a shot even he's the number 1 contender.

Reg that may be the most retarded post you have ever made.

He would need to spend years beating top 10 HW's to get the shot he needs, fine. Better start now, :good.

[BigReg]

Reg that may be the most retarded post you have ever made.

He would need to spend years beating top 10 HW's to get the shot he needs, fine. Better start now, :good.

You cleary Have some comprehension problems. I simpley reiterated the same logic Haye fans use in his favor for why he shouldn't fight Cunningham. I guess you didn't understand when I said "using Haye fans logic". Numerous Haye fans claim that Cunningham doesn't deserve a shot at Haye because, according to them, Cunningham hasn't fought anyone and he isn't a big enough name. They say this despite the multiple top 10 Cruisers he has beat since 2004. Despite this rhetoric, they seem to think Haye should be able to waltz right up to HW and take on the number 1 fighter in that division. Do you not see the contradiction in this line of thought?

[196osh]

You cleary Have some comprehension problems. I simpley reiterated the same logic Haye fans use in his favor for why he shouldn't fight Cunningham. I guess you didn't understand when I said "using Haye fans logic". Numerous Haye fans claim that Cunningham doesn't deserve a shot at Haye because, according to them, Cunningham hasn't fought anyone and he isn't a big enough name. They say this despite the multiple top 10 Cruisers he has beat since 2004. Despite this rhetoric, they seem to think Haye should be able to waltz right up to HW and take on the number 1 fighter in that division. Do you not see the contradiction in this line of thought?

:lol:

Getting wound up Reg?

Haye will get a high ranking by the WBA, WBC and WBO when he moves up, so he will be able to fight for one of those soon enough.

Why the double standards man? What about Cotto, has he not beaten enough challengers to get a fight with Floyd?

[BigReg]

:lol:

Getting wound up Reg?

Haye will get a high ranking by the WBA, WBC and WBO when he moves up, so he will be able to fight for one of those soon enough.

Why the double standards man? What about Cotto, has he not beaten enough challengers to get a fight with Floyd?

Find me one post where I said Cotto doesn't deserve a shot at Floyd. I have always maintained that he deserves his shot. Furthermore, I never get wound up. And according to a lot of Haye fans, rankings mean nothing.

[Rock0052]

Steve's going to have to suck it up and realize that he's not going to get the benefit of winning every belt in one fight, but at least his trash talking should increase his visibility a little bit and lead to some bigger paydays. I think Haye would stop him, anyways, but that's beside the point. Macca-Cunningham would be a closer fight than Haye-Cunningham.

Cunningham's career path from here on out should be trying to re-unite the titles. He doesn't have the $$$ to bring to the table to get the Haye fight to happen now, so he may as well focus on unifying the hard way if that's legitimately what he wants. Whatever he does, he should step to it now because prospects like Godfrey, Flores, and Banks are all going to become serious contenders within the near future and Cruiserweight isn't a talentless division. He'll have his work cut out for him.

[jc]

Find me one post where I said Cotto doesn't deserve a shot at Floyd. I have always maintained that he deserves his shot. Furthermore, I never get wound up. And according to a lot of Haye fans, rankings mean nothing.

we're going off topic. Haye - Cunningham is nothing like PBf Cotto, its more like Calzaghe - Mundine, a nice lil match but nothing to get the pulse racing...

[196osh]

Find me one post where I said Cotto doesn't deserve a shot at Floyd. I have always maintained that he deserves his shot. Furthermore, I never get wound up. And according to a lot of Haye fans, rankings mean nothing.

Why doesnt Floyd fight Cotto then?

Haye is moving to heavy, if he was staying at cruiser or hi next fight is announced to be at cruiser and he is not fighting Cunningham then you would have an argument.

Who said rankings mean nothing? Belts mean nothing pretty much when there is an obvious number 1. Haye, Calzaghe, hell Pac doesnt even have a belt, Klitschko(arguable), Hatton (needs to fight somebody).

[Cobbler]

according to a lot of Haye fans, rankings mean nothing.

Hmm, this looks like a made-up claim.

I don't remember one post where anyone claimed that there were any other Cruiserweights that Haye should face. A number of people, including myself, have stated several times that Cunningham would be the logical next fight for Haye, were he staying at Cruiserweight.

But nobody, apart from you, thinks that the fact that a number one contender exists is a reason for a champion not to move up and face new challenges. There'll always be another number one contender.

[Shaolin Box]

I just saw the USS/Huck fight again on youtube. USS looked good but man I dont know if I would put him in the same class with Haye. Haye just looks to big and too strong for USS. To me, Haye looks far more impressive skill wise too. But hey, styles make fights so i'd still love to see this one, but its too bad it probably wont happen.

[BigReg]

Why doesnt Floyd fight Cotto then?

Haye is moving to heavy, if he was staying at cruiser or hi next fight is announced to be at cruiser and he is not fighting Cunningham then you would have an argument.

Who said rankings mean nothing? Belts mean nothing pretty much when there is an obvious number 1. Haye, Calzaghe, hell Pac doesnt even have a belt, Klitschko(arguable), Hatton (needs to fight somebody).

Because he's fighting DLH. Now would I rather him fight Cotto, of course I would. However, that fight can still be made. If Floyd was talking about leaving the division and never fighting Cotto, I wouldn't object to any criticism thrown his way.

Once again, if Haye wants to go to HW, that's on him. However, it seems as though it's going to be a while before he can get a crack at Wlad or Peter, and he had no problem making weight against Maca and only fought two rounds. Haye claims that since he cleaned out the division that he can now move to HW. However, this isn't true. Until he beats Cunningham, he has not cleaned out the division. No one is going to stop this guy from going to HW. However, if he does so before beating Cunningham, than he needs to stop making bogus claims of cleaning out the division. Under the traditional standard, he will have also left the division without being the undisputed champ. This is knock on Haye, but it's reality.

[Cobbler]

If Floyd was talking about leaving the division and never fighting Cotto, I wouldn't object to any criticism thrown his way.

Floyd's left loads of divisions without being anywhere near undisputed by your standards, criticise away.

[BigReg]

Floyd's left loads of divisions without being anywhere near undisputed by your standards, criticise away.

First off, I'm not even criticising Haye. My only claim is that Cunningham is a worthy challenger, and that since He won't get a shot at Wlad or Peter for a while, he could still fight Cunningham. As a matter of fact, I haven't criticised Haye one time this entire thread. All I said was that he isn't the undisputed champ, which is true.

[jc]

First off, I'm not even criticising Haye. My only claim is that Cunningham is a worthy challenger, and that since He won't get a shot at Wlad or Peter for a while, he could still fight Cunningham. As a matter of fact, I haven't criticised Haye one time this entire thread. All I said was that he isn't the undisputed champ, which is true.

Haye is undisputed...:good

[BigReg]

Haye is undisputed...:good

I'm tired of going in circles with some of you people.

[Haye]

I'm tired of going in circles with some of you people.

I started a thread asking the question 'is Haye undisputed'. In the hope of ending this merry go round of a thread.:good

[BigReg]

I started a thread asking the question 'is Haye undisputed'. In the hope of ending this merry go round of a thread.:good

That poll is useless. There was another thread created a while ago that asked what makes an undisputed champion. The thread went on for like 7 or 8 pages and there still wasn't a consensus. Trust me, your poll only measures how many Haye pole jockers there are on this site.

[Haye]

That poll is useless. There was another thread created a while ago that asked what makes an undisputed champion. The thread went on for like 7 or 8 pages and there still wasn't a consensus. Trust me, your poll only measures how many Haye pole jockers there are on this site.

Well I dunno, debating the subject seems almost futile as nobody is gonna change any one else's mind. Just curious as to what the majority think.

[kurt2006]

Cuntingham talking shit again. Should stick to his pizza shop and forget about fighting the big boys. He is fck all compared to Haye.

Enzo Maccarinelli, but look, who has Enzo beat? Look at his record

Look at Hucks record you thick bastard. He is far from the super powerhouse you claim he is.

[kurt2006]

No one denies that Haye is the man of the division. When you own 3 of the 4 belts, no contest. Youre the fuckin man... BUT he is still not undisputed. It's not a tough concept to grasp, people. If you don't have all the titles (particularly when you don't have all of the original 3: WBC, WBA, IBF), you're not undisputed. How hard is it to understand that?

I think once Haye realizes Wlad and Peter's schedules are booked and he has no big-money fights coming his way in the HW division, he will fight Cunningham. It would be a great fight, and it's for total unification. How can you guys be against that? Those that think Haye will take him out early is severely underestimating Cunningham's slickness and defense. Haye will take a few rounds just to figure him out.

Just like everyone ignored the WBO belt when Tyson was HW champ everyone will ignore USS. He is nothing and no one is bothered about him.

[BigReg]

Cuntingham talking shit again. Should stick to his pizza shop and forget about fighting the big boys. He is fck all compared to Haye.



Look at Hucks record you thick bastard. He is far from the super powerhouse you claim he is.

You're usually a solid poster. This is post is complete garbage and stinks of ignorance.

[BigReg]

No one denies that Haye is the man of the division. When you own 3 of the 4 belts, no contest. Youre the fuckin man... BUT he is still not undisputed. It's not a tough concept to grasp, people. If you don't have all the titles (particularly when you don't have all of the original 3: WBC, WBA, IBF), you're not undisputed. How hard is it to understand that?

I think once Haye realizes Wlad and Peter's schedules are booked and he has no big-money fights coming his way in the HW division, he will fight Cunningham. It would be a great fight, and it's for total unification. How can you guys be against that? Those that think Haye will take him out early is severely underestimating Cunningham's slickness and defense. Haye will take a few rounds just to figure him out.

:good I'm glad someone gets it.

[196osh]

:good I'm glad someone gets it.

Ever think that you argue semantics a bit too much?

[Alo2006]

They need to make this fight happen :yep

[BigReg]

Read this.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

This doesn't disporve anything. Hopefully you're smart enough to understand why.

[billyconn]

BT – David Haye was talking some smack about you, do you have anything that you would like to say to him in return?

SC – My record speaks for itself. I have been fighting top 10 guys since 2004. When he goes to heavyweight he won't fight top 10 guys like I have done for years already. He's doing a lot of talking, a lot of big talk just to look big. He did do a good job against Enzo Maccarinelli, but look, who has Enzo beat? Look at his record. Enzo was given a belt, I wasn't given a belt. To correct David Haye, I wasn't given any belt. I didn't win a vacant title, I fought Krzysztof Wlodarczyk, they cheated, and I got the immediate rematch, and I took the belt from him. Then I defended my title against an undefeated powerhouse in Marco Huck. I understand why Haye fought the English guy, but don't try to downplay me like I am nobody, he knows exactly who I am

BT – What would happen if you do get a chance to fight David Haye?

SC – Man, David Haye looks like an amateur fighter in there. His name is the “Hayemaker”, and that's all he does is throw big shots. Listen, that's like sparring to me, fighting him would be like sparring to me. We dismantled powerful fighters, David Haye is not a smart fighter, he's just a puncher. Boxing consists of power shots, ability, ring generalship, and boxing skills. David Haye only has one of those, power. Take that away from him, and he has nothing. I will shut him down, plain and simple

BT – What's next for you?

SC – If David Haye continues to lie to himself, and talk as if he cleaned up the cruiserweight division he will have to come through me first. Last time I checked I have the IBF title in my trophy case in my living room. He doesn't want to try to walk through me though, that's obvious. All he can do is talk about me, that's all he wants to do. If David Haye wants to be the TRUE undisputed champion, you have to come through me. The IBF is one of the most recognized belts in the world. Let's set this fight up before the end of May. He only fought 2 rounds a few days ago, he said he made the weight easy, so lets do this.

BT – Would you fight David Haye in England?

SC – Indeed I would. The “USS” Cunningham engines are ready, they are running. If that's what it takes for him to come out from hiding, we'll fight him in England. How many times has he fought abroad? One time against old man Mormeck. A true champion has an outstanding resume, and has been in situations where it looked like he was going to lose a fight, and then ended up winning a fight. That's a TRUE champion.

In Lennox Lewis tone/accent, "Cunningham is one smart cookie".....:yep

[Leif Erikson]

If Cunningham REALLY wants the fight, he'll move up to heavy and put at least $2m on the table for Haye - even if it means remortgaging / downgrading the place in which he lives.

If he fails to take those sort of measures, this remains hot air from a feather fisted, delusional paper chump. It's simple - If you're a no name challenger who wants the opportunity to face the champ, you'd better make it worth his while.