American Boxing...

[Ray Robinson]

Lets talk about it...

How is the future looking for us?

[Florida boy]

fine and dandy, like sour candy.

[Ray Robinson]

Obviously, one of the main problems is that we don't have any really good heavyweight fighters....guys that could draw more fans to the sport.

Now that the last generation of fighters are getting up in age, I am wondering what's in store for the future? :?

[H .]

stalemate

won't die, isn't getting much better

[Punisher33]

Sad, depressing, uneventful. The prime years when Heavyweight fighters like Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, and Foreman, all graced the covers of the ring magizine, are long over, guys like Chazz Witherspoon and Travis Walker, just wont cut it. I think when the guys I named left the division, so did the excitement and the enertainment value, not only were they able to throw the leather, they all had good personalities that drew the fans in, I cant say the same for the batch we have now.

[Ray Robinson]

Sad, depressing, uneventful. The prime years when Heavyweight fighters like Holyfield, Bowe, Tyson, and Foreman, all graced the covers the ring magizine, are long over, guys like Chazz Witherspoon and Travis Walker, just wont cut it. I think when the guys I named left the division, so did the excitement and the enertainment value, not only were they able to throw the leather, they all had a good personalities that drew the fans in, I cant say the same for the batch we have now.

Agreed....

[Punisher33]

Sorry, I didnt know you meant American fighters as a whole, but in that case, I feel that every other division is in pretty decent shape, with guys like Mayweather and Pavlik, who have alot of star power, as well as a couple old guys that are still hanging in there like Hopkins, Mosley, Oscar, and Spinks(Somewhat). I think every other division will repair itself, aside from the Heavyweight division, which is beyond repairing at the moment, and it will take many years if ever, before we see another Holyfield or Tyson like fighter again.

[elgrancampeon]

Charlie Zel has his first fight coming up so I would say it looks pretty bright!

[Punisher33]

Charlie Zel has his first fight coming up so I would say it looks pretty bright!:rofl :lol: :lol: :lol: Good one, unfortunately that's our future great American Hope. :verysad

[Ray Robinson]

Damn...I hate international coverage on fights. Thats the reason how we lost our monopoly on boxing...:lol:

[Kolya]

Well, we have a pretty good Olympic team this year and most, if not all, of them will turn pro afterwards. We're especially good in the lighter weights; but Michael Hunter, the Super Heavy, is improving vastly; as is Deontay Wilder, or 6'7 201 pound representative.

[Monstar]

truthfully i'd say america's still on top.... it's just our heavies dat look sour, you feel me?... welter's middles, supermid's.. light heavy's.. hell we even salvaged a cruiserweight title... we're by no means in the dumps right now

[Ray Robinson]

...I am not as optimistic...as some of you!!

All of our great fighters (well most of them anyways) are getting old.

Hopefully we can get some good new blood.

[eliqueiros]

You know, since the early nineties I have not seen the point in wanting to watch heavyweight. They are too big. Heavyweight used to mean 200-220 pounds. Now the gorillas come in at 240-250, slabs of fat flying whenever they throw a slow hammering punch. It's become a freakshow. Heavyweights used to be athletes and now they are just obese men. Please stop bemoaning this division unless one can bring athletiscm back into it and cut the fat asses out by bringing up a weight restriction. There is such a thing as too big.

[sean]

truthfully i'd say america's still on top.... it's just our heavies dat look sour, you feel me?... welter's middles, supermid's.. light heavy's.. hell we even salvaged a cruiserweight title... we're by no means in the dumps right now
:huh
160
168
175
200
200 plus
there are currently 21 belts and 3 american title holders and very few contenders.


go back to 1900 and go through every decade to present andlook at americas champs and strength in depth and compare.

[MattMattMatt]

:huh
160
168
175
200
200 plus
there are currently 21 belts and 3 american title holders and very few contenders.


go back to 1900 and go through every decade to present andlook at americas champs and strength in depth and compare.
..and one of those, Cunningham, is a debatable title holder anyway. The only reason he has that belt is because of boxing politics. If O'Neil Bell hadn't been stripped by the retarded IBF for deciding to fight a rematch with the number one contender then all the belts would be unified.

[Amsterdam]

Let's see here about Supernatural's -

Joe Calzaghe - Welsh

Cristian Mijares - Mexican

Joan Guzman - Dominican

Yuriorkis Gamboa - Cuban

Any American's? Not currently, but that's not even of concern, as American has had the most Supernatural's in history.

I think the Latin American countries have it going on right now in terms of skilled fighters....

[Ray Robinson]

...

[TFFP]

The problem is you have too many old corpses hanging around taking up the limelight when they should really just retire

Hopkins, De La Fishnets, Mosley, Tarver, Winky-Wright...the list is endless

It's tougher for the talents to get big fights when these have so much clout

[Punisher33]

I feel the UFC has something to do with the decline of American fighters, I'm sure I have already said this before but, many Boxing gyms around my area are closing down, 3 to be exact, one of which is being replaced by a fight league/MMA gym, kids will always be attracted to whats new and popular, and thats the UFC, most of my friends couldnt name the Heavyweight champ even if they tried, but ask them who's the UFC champs are, they will practically run down the list of names.

I think it's a damn shame Boxing is taking the backseat to the UFC, but in America that seems to be happening now, are only hope is for the UFC bubble to burst, and for Boxing to try develope another Tyson like fighter to draw the fans back in, personality sells fights just as much as skills do, Tyson had both. I still hold out hope though, it's only matter of time before another American youth comes out of the shaddows, every generation has one, I'm just getting tired of waiting.

[ardy]

You know, since the early nineties I have not seen the point in wanting to watch heavyweight. They are too big. Heavyweight used to mean 200-220 pounds. Now the gorillas come in at 240-250, slabs of fat flying whenever they throw a slow hammering punch. It's become a freakshow. Heavyweights used to be athletes and now they are just obese men. Please stop bemoaning this division unless one can bring athletiscm back into it and cut the fat asses out by bringing up a weight restriction. There is such a thing as too big.

It wouldn,t be the heavyweight division if there was a weight restriction. Although I take your point about the condition of some of the heavyweights out there.

[ardy]

I feel the UFC has something to do with the decline of American fighters, I'm sure I have already said this before but, many Boxing gyms around my area are closing down, 3 to be exact, one of which is being replaced by a fight league/MMA gym, kids will always be attracted to whats new and popular, and thats the UFC, most of my friends couldnt name the Heavyweight champ even if they tried, but ask them who's the UFC champs are, they will practically run down the list of names.

I think it's a damn shame Boxing is taking the backseat to the UFC, but in America that seems to be happening now, are only hope is for the UFC bubble to burst, and for Boxing to try develope another Tyson like fighter to draw the fans back in, personality sells fights just as much as skills do, Tyson had both. I still hold out hope though, it's only matter of time before another American youth comes out of the shaddows, every generation has one, I'm just getting tired of waiting.

I'm Irish, so know little about MMA sports, but I watched Cage fighting on Saturday night on Sky.Some guy called Ken Shamrock was fighting an English guy [can't remember his name]. It was a F--king joke:yikes, Shamrock was rubbish:yep, he fell over from the first decent punch landed on him.:tired I couldn't help thinking, with a bit of conditioning I could knock both of these fools out. If this is what the Americans want to watch, well their welcome to it.Boxing is booming at the moment in Europe, things are great here, we the Europeans will champion boxing in the future.:bbb

[Beebs]

I'm Irish, so know little about MMA sports, but I watched Cage fighting on Saturday night on Sky.Some guy called Ken Shamrock was fighting an English guy [can't remember his name]. It was a F--king joke:yikes, Shamrock was rubbish:yep, he fell over from the first decent punch landed on him.:tired I couldn't help thinking, with a bit of conditioning I could knock both of these fools out. If this is what the Americans want to watch, well their welcome to it.Boxing is booming at the moment in Europe, things are great here, we the Europeans will champion boxing in the future.:bbb

Shamrock is the Evander Holyfield of MMA, he is a shadow of what he once was.

[fra]

Shamrock is the Evander Holyfield of MMA, he is a shadow of what he once was.

Holyfield should retire.

[klion22]

Athletes go where the money is. And it's in other sports. It wasn't like that back in the days. But the disparity in how much a top athlete receives in other sports compared to boxing have widened. If you are about the size of a HW and have great talents, your chances of making millions is a lot greater in others sports than boxing because even if you are good, there is no guarantee you will ever get your shot.

Look at freaken Vitali getting a shot. HA HA. Doesn't that tell it all?

Or how about Winky toiling in obscurity for all these years until Mosley gave him a shot. Who knows where Winky would've been had Mosley never given him the shot?

[Punisher33]

I'm Irish, so know little about MMA sports, but I watched Cage fighting on Saturday night on Sky.Some guy called Ken Shamrock was fighting an English guy [can't remember his name]. It was a F--king joke:yikes, Shamrock was rubbish:yep, he fell over from the first decent punch landed on him.:tired I couldn't help thinking, with a bit of conditioning I could knock both of these fools out. If this is what the Americans want to watch, well their welcome to it.Boxing is booming at the moment in Europe, things are great here, we the Europeans will champion boxing in the future.:bbb I'm not a big fan of the UFC, but if you really believe you can go in the cage and knock Ken Shamrock out with a few months of training, your an idiot. As far as the Europeans being the Champions, well that may be somewhat true at the moment, but the talent of the division sucks dick, and none of your European so-called champs will ever be looked at in the same light as the American greats that came before them, I bet Wlad never even cracks the top 15 list of Heavyweight champs, which are all mostly American fighters.

[jc]

America should have enough of a grounded amatuer boxing program where it can deal with new fads like UFC, where the very best guys are nit American anyway...

I think the boxing world has changed, the talent pool is alot bigger, the Eastern bloc has taken the buzz out of the heavyweight division, but even if you look up and down the weights the US isnt shining too brightly.

US boxing is in a quiet patch, probably the biggest quiet patch in the past 100 years, but it hasnt dissapeared, I think a few of the potential big stars have fallen short.

Taylor and Lacy were great amatuers, made all the right noises going pro, but lost before they had got a proper national fan base. Dawson is still very much a question mark, but even he doesnt have the universal style to draw fans in the masses.

You'll just have to put up with Mayweather and Pavlik for now...:D

[marting]

Maybe the US scene is a little thin but you have a much richer international scene that's put some good solid fighters into the mix. But there's still some decent fighters beyond the old guard of Floyd Mayweather, Moseley, Hopkins, Wright and I guess we should add Nate Campbell to the old guard.

We've got young guns making noise like Pavlik.

Juan Diaz is still a helluva fighter, so are Paul Williams, Paulie Malignaggi, Demetrius Hopkins, and Andre Berto. I still think Kendall Holt and Anthony Thompson might make some more noise despite some setbacks. I really like this kid Joe Greene. Others like Tim Bradley, Devon Alexander, Lamont Peterson, BJ Flores look like they have bright futures.

I think what hurts some of the US fighters is just how thin the knowledgable fan base is for boxers. You have to toil in relative obscurity for several years before anyone takes notice. That's why I applaud Showtime for their work in displaying some of the emerging talent.

[ardy]

I'm not a big fan of the UFC, but if you really believe you can go in the cage and knock Ken Shamrock out with a few months of training, your an idiot. As far as the Europeans being the Champions, well that may be somewhat true at the moment, but the talent of the division sucks dick, and none of your European so-called champs will ever be looked at in the same light as the American greats that came before them, I bet Wlad never even cracks the top 15 list of Heavyweight champs, which are all mostly American fighters.

What's with the aggressive attitude:patsch, although I was half joking when I made the comment about Shamrock, my point is still valid that cage fighting is a joke, followed and supported by moronic Americans.The Europeans are leading the way now in boxing.Get over it mate, and enjoy the ride, and maybe one day, one of your youth can manage to keep their head out of a bucket of KFC long enough to be able to acheive something.:yep

[marting]

What's with the aggressive attitude:patsch, although I was half joking when I made the comment about Shamrock, my point is still valid that cage fighting is a joke, followed and supported by moronic Americans.The Europeans are leading the way now in boxing.Get over it mate, and enjoy the ride, and maybe one day, one of your youth can manage to keep their head out of a bucket of KFC long enough to be able to acheive something.:yep

Seems to me that the UK is getting involved in the UFC fight scene as well. That card after the Haye fight shown on Showtime featured a lot of British fighters.

[ardy]

Seems to me that the UK is getting involved in the UFC fight scene as well. That card after the Haye fight shown on Showtime featured a lot of British fighters.
Yeah, their are plenty of doormen, wanting to give it a go.:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl They would beat Ken Shamrock anyway.

[Punisher33]

What's with the aggressive attitude:patsch, although I was half joking when I made the comment about Shamrock, my point is still valid that cage fighting is a joke, followed and supported by moronic Americans.The Europeans are leading the way now in boxing.Get over it mate, and enjoy the ride, and maybe one day, one of your youth can manage to keep their head out of a bucket of KFC long enough to be able to acheive something.:yep I thought your comment was ignorant sir, I didnt seem like you were joking, so I said what I said. Just like anything else in life, things go in cycles, just a little over 2 years ago all the Heavyweight champs were American, Ruiz - WBA, Bryd - IBF, Rahman - WBC, and Brewster - WBO, two years is far dominance of a sport, even in the Heavyweight division you have guys losing belts left and right, not all of which are of European decent, Briggs beat a Euro to get the belt in late 06, and lost it to a Euro in 07, Sam Peter is now a title holder, and he's from Nigeria, not European.

Boxing is not as popular as it once was in the states, a big reason being the UFC, most teens and 20 somethings rather go and do that, then hit the Boxing gym, less Boxing gyms, means less American talent, believe what you want to believe, but Boxing gyms are closing left and right, and being replaced by fight leagues/MMA leagues in the states.

[marting]

Yeah, their are plenty of doormen, wanting to give it a go.:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl They would beat Ken Shamrock anyway.

I'll have to take your word on what Ken Shamrock's chances were or are.

I follow boxing not UFC. And I don't eat at KFC either.

[Shadowbox39]

I forget what commentator said it on HBO...but he was spot on in my opinion.....when asked where is the American talent in the Heavy Weight Division...the simple reply was...."they are playing linebacker in the NFL"....if you think about it....that is where all the best American talent at that weight level are.....all our best athletes are trying to make it into the NFL or NBA. Boxing isn't as appealing to american youth as it was back in the day! In any event, boxing is cultural....guys growing up on the street in rough areas are more likely to enter a boxing gym...some of these guys will make it...some will end up in jail....the odds against them making it are staggering...so I think there are alot of variables to include...but it is only a matter of time before a couple of phenoms come along and the American heavyweight becomes a factor again....

[Ray Robinson]

I think we all make some good points. I always felt that we have been in a golden era for the last 20 years. Just was thinking about how things will look in the future.

[Ray Robinson]

:bbb

[Farmboxer]

European boxers are hated by American boxing media to the extreme.

[Farmboxer]

And it's not provincial either.

[Kolya]

Guys, see my post. We have some very good boxers on our Olympic team this year; and the alternates that are training with them ain't half bad either-and without fail, most of them are extremely young, aside from our senior member who's 33, the next oldest is 24.

[Ray Robinson]

Hopefully the future is as promising as some of you would make it seem.:good

[Kolya]

Hopefully the future is as promising as some of you would make it seem.:good

I feel fairly safe in saying Rau'shee ****** will be a force at 112-122 possibly over the next decade or so.

[Farmboxer]

Like I have said before, I know the "real" reason for the Klitschko hating, actually Euro in general.

[Ray Robinson]

I think the hating on the Klits is silly....there is no doubt that they are the most skilled Heavy's in the world.

I would favor a healthy Vitali over any fighter above 200 LBS. including his brother.

Vitali has a great defense, offense, and chin...

[Farmboxer]

There were times when Vitali fought for free, coming from a kickboxing fight to a boxing fight! Vitali is a true warrior.

[Ray Robinson]

I like Vitali....but I doubt that he has ever fought for free....


Show me some :deal (excluding amateur)....

[Ray Robinson]

...

[Ray Robinson]

We still have Joe Mesi....:lol:

[sean]

Maybe the US scene is a little thin but you have a much richer international scene that's put some good solid fighters into the mix. But there's still some decent fighters beyond the old guard of Floyd Mayweather, Moseley, Hopkins, Wright and I guess we should add Nate Campbell to the old guard.

We've got young guns making noise like Pavlik.

Juan Diaz is still a helluva fighter, so are Paul Williams, Paulie Malignaggi, Demetrius Hopkins, and Andre Berto. I still think Kendall Holt and Anthony Thompson might make some more noise despite some setbacks. I really like this kid Joe Greene. Others like Tim Bradley, Devon Alexander, Lamont Peterson, BJ Flores look like they have bright futures.

I think what hurts some of the US fighters is just how thin the knowledgable fan base is for boxers. You have to toil in relative obscurity for several years before anyone takes notice. That's why I applaud Showtime for their work in displaying some of the emerging talent.

that is an excellent point.

look back 20 or 30 years an american amatuer stars or fighters like tyson who were quickly establishing a reputation were aired on american tv right from the very start and americans could follow there careers right the way through.



in the uk for example this is still how high profile young talents are brought through.

i think for example about 37 of calzaghe`s 44 fights were televised.

all of hatton`s.

khan gets 6 million on average and every fight is televised.

haye every fight telelvised i beleive.

it is the reason of course uk prospects get the hype, even if it goes over the top sometimes , because they are in the public eye.

smaller pool of course but with all the channels tv now has easily done both sides of the atlantic.

just edit to say as far as i know UFC is nowhere near as mainstream as in the USA.

the event in london was not mentioned or aired in the uk that night , although it will pop up i am sure on an obscure fight /wrestling channel that we have or eurosport the 8th sport channel

[Ubersteve]

It was on a pay per view channel.

[sean]

It was on a pay per view channel.

the UFC event was on sky PPV.?

i had no idea.