Peter must be given credit...

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

If he beats Vitali. This a shitty situation for Sam, as he is going to be sort of knocked either way. If he beats Vitali, people will bash him for beating a fighter who has been inactive and injured for 4 years. If he loses to Vitali, than it will be even worse.

I think that Vitali is too smart to come back into the ring, if he doesn't feel like he still has it in him. I don't think that any of us expect him to be the same fighter who hasn't fought in 4 years, but if he fights... I can bet you that he will be ready. If he was just 37, age probably wouldn't be a big issue anyways. His problem is his inactivity. However, he has had several training camps, even though they didn't finish. So, he wasn't completely inactive during this time.

People don't have to pretend like he beat Vitali at his very best... but it would be Vitali's decision to come back and fight, so there shouldn't be excuses if he were to lose. Also, Sam shouldn't be bashed on for being mandated to fight Vitali, in his current situation.

[Shpion]

Of course he should be given credit for the win. It will be the best name on his resume probably for years to come.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I would like to add that Peter is just the kind of Heavyweight that boxing needs. Outside of Peter and Wlad, I can't think of any other top fighter who is willing to fight everyone. I guess you can through Iggy in that list, because he showed heart by putting his title on the line against Wlad, when he didn't have to.

[Shpion]

I would like to add that Peter is just the kind of Heavyweight that boxing needs. Outside of Peter and Wlad, I can't think of any other top fighter who is willing to fight everyone. I guess you can through Iggy in that list, because he showed heart by putting his title on the line against Wlad, when he didn't have to.

You can probably add Povetkin. The best resume for 15 pro-fights in years.

[Punisher33]

If he beats Vitali. This a shitty situation for Sam, as he is going to be sort of knocked either way. If he beats Vitali, people will bash him for beating a fighter who has been inactive and injured for 4 years. If he loses to Vitali, than it will be even worse.

I think that Vitali is too smart to come back into the ring, if he doesn't feel like he still has it in him. I don't think that any of us expect him to be the same fighter who hasn't fought in 4 years, but if he fights... I can bet you that he will be ready. If he was just 37, age probably wouldn't be a big issue anyways. His problem is his inactivity. However, he has had several training camps, even though they didn't finish. So, he wasn't completely inactive during this time.

People don't have to pretend like he beat Vitali at his very best... but it would be Vitali's decision to come back and fight, so there shouldn't be excuses if he were to lose. Also, Sam shouldn't be bashed on for being mandated to fight Vitali, in his current situation. Good post Widdow, Peter's not the most talented, but he does bring in the ring with him Heart, chin, and power, and he usually goes for what the people want, a knockout.:good

[Heavyrighthand]

I agree. If PEter does manage to beat the big man, he certainly won't be belittled for defeating a shot Vitali by me. I see Vitali as being fully prepared, and fully ready........no excuses, and full credit to whomever wins.

[Rumsfeld]

good topic and post. [Only registered and activated users can see links]

so is this fight a done deal?

Only if Vitali survives his nemesis known as training camp.

:smoke

[Suge Green]

I think that Vitali is too smart to come back into the ring, if he doesn't feel like he still has it in him. .


Nice continuation of the "deserves respect" threads.

I agree with the quoted portion of your post, as we all should. He has an excellent record in this particular area.

With this in mind, why aren't you expecting a cancel, knowing that during his last five preparations...he did exactly what you say, and exercised his "smarts" in not coming back.

Why is this time different...???

[Armo_Ruski]

only way i see peter winning honestly is if vitali is literally like 20 to 40% of who he was before in the ring... i highly doubt vitali has declined that much...

[Suge Green]

...stranger things have happened in boxing and we could only hope as boxing fans that such an interesting match goes as planned.


No, nothing remotely simillar has occured to my knowledge. FIVE bouts signed, all canceled when one fighter can't make it out of training camp. He then on the SIXTH try is fine...

...this is very unlikely, the fact that the KLIT-ites don't acknowledge they are hoping against the odds, should be puzzling...but look what kind of people we are talking about.

[1lehudson]

Only if Vitali survives his nemesis known as training camp.

:smokeYou know when a guy doesnt have his heart in something it dont take much to convince him.

I dont really think VK wanted to fight back then, I think that he was just tried of boxing and he wanted to try something eles. Even now it dont seem that he is all that excited.

[Leeroy]

If Peter wins, then yes, he deseves full credit.

[maciek4]

Unfortunatelly for Vitali King already is trying to set up a fight between Peter and Golota.

Btw Golota by KO :D

[Punisher33]

Unfortunatelly for Vitali King already is trying to set up a fight between Peter and Golota.

Btw Golota by KO :D I hope your right, I would really hate to see Peter tied up in all the Vitali postponements for the rest of 08, at least Golota is active and more deserving of a title shot, unlike Vitali who just asks for a title shot after 3 years of inactivity, and gets it.

[Heavyrighthand]

I hope your right, I would really hate to see Peter tied up in all the Vitali postponements for the rest of 08, at least Golota is active and more deserving of a title shot, unlike Vitali who just asks for a title shot after 3 years of inactivity, and gets it.

Maybe the fact that he had the title, and it was not taken from him in the ring, then he retired...


..maybe that had a little something to do with it..........

I am not saying his emertitus titleshot is warranted or not (that's another thread), but given that he retired as beltholder, he is certianly more deserving than Golota for his mere win over Mollo. Good GOD, let's get real. :-(

[1lehudson]

I hope your right, I would really hate to see Peter tied up in all the Vitali postponements for the rest of 08, at least Golota is active and more deserving of a title shot, unlike Vitali who just asks for a title shot after 3 years of inactivity, and gets it.Golota dont deserve sh*t. He lost to "Huggy Bear" Ruiz and was blown out in one by Brewster in his last two meaningful fight. I would bash Peter to no end if he takes a fight with Golota.

[Suge Green]

Golota dont deserve sh*t. He lost to "Huggy Bear" Ruiz and was blown out in one by Brewster in his last two meaningful fight. I would bash Peter to no end if he takes a fight with Golota.

Never mind Golota, but losses to Ruiz don't count. They don't even need an asterisk...the name Ruiz says it all.

[Punisher33]

Golota dont deserve sh*t. He lost to "Huggy Bear" Ruiz and was blown out in one by Brewster in his last two meaningful fight. I would bash Peter to no end if he takes a fight with Golota. At least we know Golota will make it to the ring come fight night, I dont think he's deserving, but he is more deserving them Vitali, whose last fight was in Nov. of 04, and has backed out of 5 fights since, and broke the WBC record for most postponements without actually fighting.

[Punisher33]

Maybe the fact that he had the title, and it was not taken from him in the ring, then he retired...


..maybe that had a little something to do with it..........

I am not saying his emertitus titleshot is warranted or not (that's another thread), but given that he retired as beltholder, he is certianly more deserving than Golota for his mere win over Mollo. Good GOD, let's get real. :-( I want to see Vitali fight Peter, but I still have my doubts, I just see Peter not getting in the ring again until 09, because of Vitali and his injuries, Vitali and Wlad both holding titles at the same time, would quite possibly be my worst nighmare.:verysad

[1lehudson]

At least we know Golota will make it to the ring come fight night, I dont think he's deserving, but he is more deserving them Vitali, whose last fight was in Nov. of 04, and has backed out of 5 fights since, and broke the WBC record for most postponements without actually fighting.I have to agree there.

[cuchulain]

If Sam Peter beats any version of Vitali, he should get full credit. The fight should be set for July or Aug with a late Sept absolute deadline. If Vitali hasn't fought by then, he should retire, for good.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

No, nothing remotely simillar has occured to my knowledge. FIVE bouts signed, all canceled when one fighter can't make it out of training camp. He then on the SIXTH try is fine...

...this is very unlikely, the fact that the KLIT-ites don't acknowledge they are hoping against the odds, should be puzzling...but look what kind of people we are talking about.
You are exaggerating. There has only been 3 times that were actually signed bouts. Twice against Rahman, and once against McCline. Everytime someone talks about it, they add another time against Rahman. The first time that an agreement had been met. Vitali had them push the proposed date back further, because he had a leg injury. Vitali ended up having to undergo back surgery to fix the pinched nerve that was leading him to believe that he had injured his thigh.... but they never had an actual agreement met at that time, and no venue, or date was agreed upon. Then, the second time that Vitali pulled out was when he blew out his knee. He retired after this. Then, last year in his comeback attempt against McCline.

That is 3 times, not 5. Remember, Vitali had just fought in December of 2004. He didn't have 4 different fights against Rahman set up in less than one year. Vitali even underwent back surgery during this period of time. The press just kept jumping the gun and putting dates out there for a fight, that wasn't yet finalized.

Also, let's remember that Vitali was ready to fight Rahman that Sept, and the fight was held up by Don King putting together Rahman vs Barrett. So, Vitali tried to get a tune-up in against Maskaev, since the Rahman fight wouldn't happen until later that year. It was denied... and Vitali had to once again stop training, and sit on the shelf until the Rahman fight was scheduled again.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Anyone notice how I, as a known Klitschko fan start this thread giving Sam Peter props and respect... only to have the thread turned into shit by the Klitschko haters once again turning this into a Klitschko bashing contest? Then, they wonder why we are always defending the Klitschkos. They turn it all around and act like we are "rabid" fans or "fanatics" because they always put Klitschko fans on the defensive. I can't even start a thread giving Sam Peter respect without them coming in and turning it into a thread downgrading Vitali. I guess this is a prime example of who is really to blame for the flame wars on this message board.

[Punisher33]

You are exaggerating. There has only been 3 times that were actually signed bouts. Twice against Rahman, and once against McCline. Everytime someone talks about it, they add another time against Rahman. The first time that an agreement had been met. Vitali had them push the proposed date back further, because he had a leg injury. Vitali ended up having to undergo back surgery to fix the pinched nerve that was leading him to believe that he had injured his thigh.... but they never had an actual agreement met at that time, and no venue, or date was agreed upon. Then, the second time that Vitali pulled out was when he blew out his knee. He retired after this. Then, last year in his comeback attempt against McCline.

That is 3 times, not 5. Remember, Vitali had just fought in December of 2004. He didn't have 4 different fights against Rahman set up in less than one year. Vitali even underwent back surgery during this period of time. The press just kept jumping the gun and putting dates out there for a fight, that wasn't yet finalized. Soliman said that it was 4 times that Vitali cancelled out on Rahman, in the 44 years of the WBC belts exsistence, Vitali had the most cacellations without a fight, the dates are as followed April 30, June 18, July 23, and the final date Nov 12., you can find all this information by going to the HBO website and pluging in "How many times did Vitali cancel his fight with Rahman".

I reccomend you check it out Widdow, it also talks about King trying to sue Vitali as well.

[Suge Green]

Anyone notice how I, as a known Klitschko fan start this thread giving Sam Peter props and respect... only to have the thread turned into shit by the Klitschko haters once again turning this into a Klitschko bashing contest? Then, they wonder why we are always defending the Klitschkos. They turn it all around and act like we are "rabid" fans or "fanatics" because they always put Klitschko fans on the defensive. I can't even start a thread giving Sam Peter respect without them coming in and turning it into a thread downgrading Vitali. I guess this is a prime example of who is really to blame for the flame wars on this message board.

I'll do you a favor and skip your last post...and pick up right here.

It's the untruths that cause KLIT-ites to be on the defensive, they are always slipped in...and they are always called.

In the post I chose not to quote, you act as though dates are just made up and times are made up.

In the other thread you got your dates.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I don't care what "dates" you provide. You said that he cancelled on 4 signed fights with Rahman. That is a lie. There only two signed fights with Rahman. That is a fact.

[Suge Green]

I don't care what "dates" you provide. You said that he cancelled on 4 signed fights with Rahman. That is a lie. There only two signed fights with Rahman. That is a fact.

You know what, if that's the case I would gladly adjust my statement.

It doesn't change my overall position if you are correct. He canceled 5 times. He couldn't get through training camp. He was injured, etc. etc...

All you can really do, for quite a bit of work is get me to adjust the statement from "signed," to "agreed to fight on such and such a date..."

I wouldn't put so much emphasis where you are putting it, but as I said I would gladly and quickly adjust my statement and refer to it in the future as correctly as possible.

So get to work and prove that negative...that they did not sign...

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Already said that Vitali had the fight pushed back and postponed more than the times that it was signed. However, there were only two fights that were actually signed between the two.

[Suge Green]

You know what, if that's the case I would gladly adjust my statement.

It doesn't change my overall position if you are correct. He canceled 5 times. He couldn't get through training camp. He was injured, etc. etc...

All you can really do, for quite a bit of work is get me to adjust the statement from "signed," to "agreed to fight on such and such a date..."

I wouldn't put so much emphasis where you are putting it, but as I said I would gladly and quickly adjust my statement and refer to it in the future as correctly as possible.

So get to work and prove that negative...that they did not sign...

We are still right here.

[Punisher33]

I don't care what "dates" you provide. You said that he cancelled on 4 signed fights with Rahman. That is a lie. There only two signed fights with Rahman. That is a fact. Widdow your wrong, please go to HBO's website, it gives Jose Soliman giving a direct qoute that Vitali cancelled out on Rahman 4 times, even going on to say " This has never happend in the 44 year exsistence of the WBC.

All you have to do is plug in "How many times did Rahman cancel his fight with Rahman", scroll down to the title that says HBO boxing event, and you will get a long article on Vitali's cancellations, you will find the proof there.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

You know what, if that's the case I would gladly adjust my statement.

It doesn't change my overall position if you are correct. He canceled 5 times. He couldn't get through training camp. He was injured, etc. etc...

All you can really do, for quite a bit of work is get me to adjust the statement from "signed," to "agreed to fight on such and such a date..."

I wouldn't put so much emphasis where you are putting it, but as I said I would gladly and quickly adjust my statement and refer to it in the future as correctly as possible.

So get to work and prove that negative...that they did not sign...
Well, it's a pretty big difference. As when Vitali cancelled the first fight, thinking that he had a leg injury. They were automatically rescheduling the date of rescheduled fight... but Vitali was never healed. There were "suggested" dates and possible venues being negotiated, but Vitali found out that he had an overgrowth on his spinal bone that was compressing on a nerve, giving him problems in his leg. He had to undergo surgery to repair the problem. So, this was all actually the same problem, not a bunch of different ones, and not a bunch of signed fights being cancelled. The fights was just being pushed back further and further... I admit that much. However, it wasn't as if Vitali set up and signed 4 fights, had 4 training camps and 4 injuries. The second actual cancelled fight was was he knee injury.

Here, I found this... it may explain this better than I can....

The WBC designated former WBC, WBA & IBF world Heavyweight Champion Hasim Rahman ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) as Klitschko’s next mandatory challenger; the fight was set for April 30 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), 2005. Klitschko thought that he'd injured his thigh while training for the fight, so it was rescheduled for June 18. As this date approached, Klitschko’s camp said that the thigh had not healed. becoming suspicious because it had not responded in ample time given. When investigated further, it was found that he had no thigh muscle injury, as a CT Scan showed that a spinal bony spur had overgrown and was squeezing the sciatic nerve branch to the thigh. Although originally announced as a thigh injury, the fact is that neither the thigh nor the back was injured - the bony spur growth being a normal body action which often occurs, and requires surgery.
The surgery consisted of making a small incision, then pushing aside and propping away several thick cris-crossing bands of muscle, to open the way to the spine. This done, the bony spur was "clipped off" and the ends smoothed, the muscles pushed back in place, and the incision sewn up.
After a subsequent rehabiliation period, he could finally begin training. He was ready to fight on September 13th, the new tentative date. In the meantime, Don King, Rahman's world famous boxing promoter, is said to be an always baleful influence on the WBC, which allowed Rahman to fight for their "interim" title, against a "push-over" Barrett, Rahman's closest friend..
Klitschko's people opposed Rahman having this fight, and this opposition was considered by analysts to be for two main reasons:
1) Assuming Rahman won, he might not be ready to fight Klitschko on Sept.13th as arranged. Both Rahman and King said they would be "ready, willing and able" for that date....which, however was never mentioned again. 2) By having the WBC allow this as an "interim' championship, the winner, would place himself (and King) in a much higher purse split bracket. Originally 75% to the Champion and 25% to the challenger. An "Unterim" champion, get's 45%. So both Rahman and King couldn't lose whichever way they played it.
The WBC pushed the fight date back to November 12; Vitali's share of the purse following this match would reportedly be between $7.8 million and $10 million (U.S.). After this third rescheduling, (really only the FIRST, since the original April postponement, since the other dates were tentative, not fixed, and depended on too many variables not guaranteed, such as a suitable arena becoming available, undercards, also TV calendar etc.)
During the first part of the week of November 12 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) 8 days before the fight, 2005, Klitschko, and his prelim sparring partner got their legs tangled together aand both fell heavily. Klitschko suffered a very serious knee injury which included the inch thich connecting ligament INSIDE the knee, which actually connects the thigh and shank. This was snapped clean. He had major surgery in L.A. for right knee injuries (a torn meniscus, a bone bruise, plus an undiagnosed MCL tear). The total recovery time from such injuries averaged around 6 months.

[Punisher33]

Widdow Maker- I read the article, and it's hard to decipher how many times it was. The article I read, Jose Soliman said persoanlly "Vitali had 4 cancellations, which is a record for most cancellations without fighting, in all 44 years of the WBC titles exsistence.

[Suge Green]

.

Here, I found this... it may explain this better than I can....



That's a gang of material to not list a source. You said you found it...??? SOP give the source.

I said that would be a gang of work to prove a negative...you haven't even began in honesty. What you did do is come up with a version of events...and you didn't even ascribe them to their author.